cc Olu

Speaking of ancient Nigerian beads, I introduce you to the Igbo ukwu carnelian beads and artworks said to be the earliest made beads and artworks in the entire southern Nigeria in the 9th century, preceding their Ife and Benin art works counterparts. Beads similar to Igbo-ukwu beads were found in Egypt which indicates a possible communication between Igbo-ukwu and ancient Egypt.

The Igbo-Ukwu bronzes amazed the world with a very high level of technical and artistic proficiency and sophistication which was at this time distinctly more advanced than bronze casting in Europe. Peter Garlake compares the Igbo-Ukwu bronzes "to the finest jewelry of rococo Europe or of Carl Faberge," and William Buller Fagg states they were created with "a strange rococo almost Faberge type virtuosity." Frank Willett says that the Igbo-Ukwu bronzes portray a standard that is comparable to that established by Benvenuto Cellini five hundred years later in Europe. Denis Williams calls them "an exquisite explosion without antecedent or issue." One of the objects found, a water pot set in a mesh of simulated rope is described by Hugh Honour and John Fleming as

A virtuoso feat of cire perdue (lost wax) casting. Its elegant design and refined detailing are matched by a level of technical accomplishment that is notably more advanced than European bronze casting of this period.

The high technical proficiency and lack of known prototypes of the Igbo-Ukwu bronzes led to initial speculation in the academic community that they must have been created after European contact and phantom voyagers were postulated. However research and isotope analysis has established that the source of the metals is of local origin and radio carbon dating has confirmed a 9th-century date, long before the earliest contact with Europe. The Igbo-Ukwu artifacts did away with the hitherto existing colonial era opinions in archeological circles that such magnificent works of art and technical proficiency could only originate in areas with contact to Europe, or that they could not be crafted in an acephalous or egalitarian society such as that of the Igbo.[3] Some of the glass and carnelian beads have been found to be produced in Old Cairo at the workshops of Fustat thus establishing that trade contacts did exist between Igbo-Ukwu and ancient Egypt.

Archaeological sites containing iron smelting furnaces and slag have been excavated dating to 2000BC in Lejja and 750BC in Opi both in Nsukka region about 100 Kilometers east of Igbo-Ukwu.

It is therefore perplexing that they were able to create objects with such fine surface detail that they depict, for example small insects which seem to have landed on the surface. Though these appear to have been riveted or soldered on to the artifacts, they were actually cast in one piece.

Igbo-Ukwu (ca. Ninth Century)

It is possible that the inhabitants of Igbo-Ukwu had a metalworking art that flourished as early as the ninth century (though this date remains controversial). Three sites have been excavated, revealing hundreds of ritual vessels and regalia castings of bronze or leaded bronze that are among the most inventive and technically accomplished bronzes ever made. The people of Igbo-Ukwu, ancestors of present-day Igbo, were the earliest smithers of copper and its alloys in West Africa, working the metal through hammering, bending, twisting, and incising. They are likely among the earliest groups of West Africans to employ the lost-wax casting techniques in the production of bronze sculptures. Oddly, evidence suggests that their metalworking repertory was limited and Igbo smiths were not familiar with techniques such as raising, soldering, riveting, and wire making, though these techniques were used elsewhere on the continent.

Regardless, the talent of these casters was truly astonishing. Many of the castings were made in stages. For instance, in one bronze bowl set on a flat stand found at Igbo-Ukwu, small decorative items including insects and spirals were cast first and placed in the wax model before the main parts of the bowl were made. The vessel itself was then cast in two parts and fitted together by casting a middle band. In addition to a variety of ritual vessels (whose designs appear to reproduce the form of gourd vessels to which metal handles have been attached), many other bronze items have been found at Igbo-Ukwu, including pendants, crowns and breastplates, staff ornaments, swords, and fly-whisk handles. These works were also found with tens of thousands of beads, attained through trade for slaves, ivory, or spices. Igbo-Ukwu bronzeworking was an isolated phenomenon at the time, but bronze casting developed several centuries later in other parts of Nigeria.

https://africa.uima.uiowa.edu/peoples/show/igbo+ukwu
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/igbo/hd_igbo.htm

1.

Igbo Ukwu and the Egyptian Connection
The external connections of Igbo-Ukwu, in the forest belt of south-eastern Nigeria, around the ninth century AD, are demonstrated by the large numbers of glass beads, apparently of Egyptian manufacture, and are implicit in the rich collection of bronze artwork that lacks known prototypes. Although the metals were mined locally, the labor and the expert alloying and casting of numerous ritual or ornamental objects indicate an accumulation of wealth derived from distant trade of special commodities. The identification of these commodities, however, and the routes by which they—and in the reverse direction the beads—would have traveled, remain unsatisfactorily resolved. A preference is repeated here for an eastern Sahelian routing from Lake Chad to the Middle Nile kingdoms (Alwa and Makuria/Dongola), then at their height, thus avoiding the Sahara. The alternative direction suggested recently (Insoll, T., and Shaw, T. (1997) Gao and Igbo-Ukwu: Beads, interregional trade and beyond. African Archaeological Review, 14:9–23), through Gao on the Niger bend and across the west-central Sahara, seems less likely on grounds of geography and chronology. The essential items of merchandise deriving from Igbo-Ukwu are unlikely to be those commonly assumed for sub-Saharan Africa, notably ivory and slaves, but would have been more local and precious, presumably metals. The bronzes stored and buried at Igbo-Ukwu might be regarded as by-products of this export activity. Demands in the Nile Valley for tin (for bronze alloying) and for silver, both of which occur in the ores exploited, deserve consideration. A call is made for comparative study of metals and their uses between the Middle Nile and West Africa in the first millennium AD—a neglected subject owing to the intellectual gulf that persists between Africanists and Egyptologists.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1006792806737

2.

Recent excavations in the city of Gao in eastern Mali have uncovered a sizable assemblage of imported and locally produced beads which are similar in many ways to the beads excavated at the site of Igbo-Ukwu in Nigeria. The similarities between the two assemblages suggest that they are indicative of interregional trade along the River Niger. As the likely source of many of the beads is Fustat in Egypt, Gao may well have been the middleman between Igbo-Ukwu and the former site. This route, it is argued, is more satisfactory than a direct east-west trade across the Sudannic zone, which has been argued for previously as a channel of international trade for Igbo-Ukwu.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02968364

For those claiming Igbos were 'merely' farmers and knew no exposure to the outside world, above is scientific evidence to the contrary, pointing to the earliest contacts with outsiders by Igbos before other Nigerian southern groups.

bigfrancis21:


You are the jokester here. Olaudah Equiano did exist and his daughter's grave in the UK is still identified till today. His activities in the US are also on record. There is no known image taken of him, thus that picture assigned to him to put a 'face' to the name. The same applies to Thomas Peters, with no known image or picture taken of him, that same image was assigned to him as well. His last known address where he lived in London is still known, and his wife and two daughters' names. Olaudah was sometime ago given a commemorative plaque which hangs on the outside of the building in London where he lived. Thus it is preposterous and quite laughable to even think Olaudah was Thomas Peters.





Second, I was putting it clear that Igbos got exposed to the Europeans long before the time some people were insinuating here through slavery. Pre-slavery, the Igbo Ukwu art works, which have been discovered to have more details, finery and finesse than any of its southern Nigerian counterpart, flourished as early as the 9th century and indications are that materials used for these art works were outsourced from far distances, with Egypt not being ruled out. Also, the ancient Igbo pyramids discovered in Udi Nigeria which are smaller images of what looks like the Egyptian pyramids indicate an ancient construction of those pyramids.

Anthony Joshua is a Nigerian and we are all proud of him. Nigerians everywhere are doing well, you act like it is only Yorubas that hold success exclusively. Since the last 4 years in quick succession, 5 Igbo children in the US have been admitted to ALL Ivy league schools in the US, no Yoruba child is yet to do that in the US. Igbo kids also beat white kids, other African kids, Indian and Chinese kids in general exams in the same UK with a high population of Yorubas, with an overall higher pass rate than other groups. There's much more that I have lost count. So quit that childish thinking of yours.

Really? So, how come we have the same kind of heroes having similarities even sharing the same picture? Isn't it foolhardy making mockery of history of an individual having identifiable identical “twin" characters as if, it is a script? Anyone can easily claim OLUADAH EXIST based on fictitious character to be named a hero. The Sign, which indicates his name and burial sites doesn't proof anything, as far as I am concerned. He was claimed to have changed names, how come? Why same picture with Thomas Peters? Thomas Peters history is well documented in the US and UK. I will be glad to see documentation of OLUADAH'S existence and his participation during the American Civil war. Kindly do me the honour.Secondly, Either 9th century or older, has nothing to do with the word “OYIBO" OR OYINBO. The reality is that Yoruba had ancient contact older than Ibos with foreigners because of Art, beads, clothing and war expeditions. It is just as the word being used by Ibos “aso ebi", has been adopted,so it won't be a big surprise to see such words being claimed as having been indigenous to Ibos, whereas it's a borrowed term. Anthony Joshua is a Yoruba young man and yet it is hardly seen on the internet being over celebrated because of our conservative nature. You are in a position to inform if it was an Ibo man that made Ibos proud proud, would song will be in Biafrans mouth? Another one is TEMITOPE BALOGUN (T. B JOSHUA) that have been welcome to Israel. Can you see the power of JESUS CHRIST work in the life of another Yoruba man? What about the Lola Odunjinrin(the first man from African to fly round the world)? etc. We Yoruba are more adventurous more than Ibos despite our conservative nature.The whites do more research on Yoruba people because of their curiosity about our identity. Yorubas walk in pride and humility.

Probz:
It's nonsense that you don't know agidi and oka are used in Yoruba being the afonja supremacist you are.

I wonder when Oyibo became Igbo word Why would you call a foreigner Onye Igbo/Ibo. [size=14pt]That is a big fat lie[/size]. Please Odumchi and co, Know your history and culture well before discussion in cultural issues because an ignoramus would actually believe you all.

The closest was ufeolorun

Oyinbo literal meaning is pealed back honey/ Peeled skinned people which is the termed by yorubas to address light skin forienger According to Debra L. Klein

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sugexp=frgbld&gs_nf=1&cp=13&gs_id=1e&xhr=t&q=oyinbo+yoruba&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbm=bks&source=og&sa=N&tab=wp&ei=Ke5lT8b3GubN0QWbt8ybCA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=83eff03ccb2cc236&biw=1043&bih=558

This word Oyinbo is not only used in Nigeria but also by Crelos people in Serri leano and according to them, they got it from the yoruba word

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=nAQIcqwGqTEC&pg=PA80&dq=oyinbo+yoruba&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5e9lT6aKNtK10QW75qWSCA&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=oyinbo%20yoruba&f=false

Oyibo is an Igbo way of saying Oyinbo which was originally never an Igbo word. Lets get our facts right here.

Oye ebeo is what Igbos call white (red) people before they adopted Oyibo

An Igbo writer called Ugo Nwokeji even claims the word Oyibo was borrowed from the yorubas and NEVER AN IGBO WORD. Link below

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=tjLjoC6ScKYC&pg=PA218&dq=oyibo+igbo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0PBlT9--AqLK0QXww7CgCA&ved=0CE0Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=oyibo%20igbo&f=false

it is just like saying the word "na" is orginally hausa or so, we all know that "na" is a corrupt version of "nna" thus of Igbo origin.

bigfrancis21:


Your provided link is as dead as it goes. 'African researcher', incase you do not know who a book producer of publisher is, here is the definition:

Sorry for that, I used my wife's fone and not too familiar with its interface like mine. I'm on my own now. Thanks for understanding.

When we say that BW&A is not a publishing company, we’re sometimes asked what that means. So here is a brief description of some of the functions of a publisher.

Honestly, I really appreciate your need to teach me the unnecessary, I appreciates.

With all these made clear-cut, I am pretty sure you would remain adamant in being open to learn.

How does this abrogates the claim that Crowther authored the Ibo primer, 'isoama ibo'? Does this proof that Simon James authored the work in question?

I'm ready to acknowledge the original author of a work as the owner of the idea and not the publisher who produce and circulate the book.

The first book was published from scrolls by Gutemberg, and that was the bible. The man did not claim to have authored the bible.

May I provide you a background: Crowther was a linguist and a cleric, a scholar and pioneer, he was not a merchant or a publisher.

He was answerable to the anglican episcopal. He does not have a publishing outfit of his own, he didn't live in the 20th century west Africa. His own works were published by church mission society.

Maybe you are mistaken Henry Townsend for Ajayi Crowther.

Bigfrancis
Pazienza,

Can you share a profile of this ex-slave sierra leonian? Is living with Crowther in Lagos a credential that Simon Jonas was an author?

My take is, it is possible for Crowther to be a polyglot, that he learned Igbo from the Igbos around him does not make his work a 'no man's work'.

Where is the proof that Simon Jonas is a linguist? That he can speak both English and Igbo does not make him a linguist.

Otherwise, every Nigerian fluent in english and the native tongue is a linguist too. And every christian can write epistle, a co-traveller with an author or publisher is a writer.

A recourse to Simon Jonas is a clever attempt to rob peter to pay paul, to use a name in record to obliterate a record to achieve collateral damage.

Until you come up with other scholarly works this man did earlier or later to affirm your claims, you know what you are: abominable scoundrels.

Otherwise, this shall be yet another endless ruse of yours from the abominable psyche.

bigfrancis21:
1.

2.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02968364

For those claiming Igbos were 'merely' farmers and knew no exposure to the outside world, above is scientific evidence to the contrary, pointing to the earliest contacts with outsiders by Igbos before other Nigerian southern groups.

You make me laugh. There isn't any iota doubt that Art work existed in Nri and other Ibo enclave but it was a Art unlike the early settlers of Yorubas TERRACOTTA at its finest which is not compared to any part of SUBSAHARA AFRICA. Terra-cotta and bronze the ethnic characteristics of the models are well portrayed, the works resemble the sculpture of ancient Greece or Egyptian art , rather than the culture of black Africa. Furthermore,
it is the terracotta sculpture (and bronzes) which show the art of ancient Ife at its best. Even the Benin heads cannot compare.

The bitter truth is that, we Yoruba had a history different from Ibos. In terms of Art, manufacturing during ancient times etc despite the fact that radiocarbon showed Igboukwu being older than ILE IFE. There are journals written about Africa people on language. For example “They Lived Before Adam: Pre-historic Origins of the Igbo, The Never Been Ruled (2009) and The Lost Testament of the Ancestors of Adam: Unearthing Heliopolis/Igbo Ukwu – The Celestial City of the Gods of Egypt and Dravidian India (2010)." So, I didn't disagree on Art in Ibo land but WAS not on the same class with ancient YORUBAS.

aljharem:



I wonder when Oyibo became Igbo word Why would you call a foreigner Onye Igbo/Ibo. [size=14pt]That is a big fat lie[/size]. Please Odumchi and co, Know your history and culture well before discussion in cultural issues because an ignoramus would actually believe you all.

The closest was ufeolorun

Oyinbo literal meaning is pealed back honey/ Peeled skinned people which is the termed by yorubas to address light skin forienger According to Debra L. Klein

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sugexp=frgbld&gs_nf=1&cp=13&gs_id=1e&xhr=t&q=oyinbo+yoruba&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbm=bks&source=og&sa=N&tab=wp&ei=Ke5lT8b3GubN0QWbt8ybCA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=83eff03ccb2cc236&biw=1043&bih=558

This word Oyinbo is not only used in Nigeria but also by Crelos people in Serri leano and according to them, they got it from the yoruba word

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=nAQIcqwGqTEC&pg=PA80&dq=oyinbo+yoruba&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5e9lT6aKNtK10QW75qWSCA&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=oyinbo%20yoruba&f=false

Oyibo is an Igbo way of saying Oyinbo which was originally never an Igbo word. Lets get our facts right here.

Oye ebeo is what Igbos call white (red) people before they adopted Oyibo

An Igbo writer called Ugo Nwokeji even claims the word Oyibo was borrowed from the yorubas and NEVER AN IGBO WORD. Link below

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=tjLjoC6ScKYC&pg=PA218&dq=oyibo+igbo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0PBlT9--AqLK0QXww7CgCA&ved=0CE0Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=oyibo%20igbo&f=false

it is just like saying the word "na" is orginally hausa or so, we all know that "na" is a corrupt version of "nna" thus of Igbo origin.

Oyibo is an Igbo word, it wasn't borrowed from any non Igbo group, Oyinbo is Yoruba word that Ndiigbo could care less about how it originated.

An Imo /Abia person whose people don't and never use Oyibo, would of course assume it was a borrowed word, Bekee is the word he/she is used to. Such ignorance is understandable, but can never be used or passed as facts.

I've lost track of this thread

aljharem:



I wonder when Oyibo became Igbo word Why would you call a foreigner Onye Igbo/Ibo. [size=14pt]That is a big fat lie[/size]. Please Odumchi and co, Know your history and culture well before discussion in cultural issues because an ignoramus would actually believe you all.

The closest was ufeolorun

Oyinbo literal meaning is pealed back honey/ Peeled skinned people which is the termed by yorubas to address light skin forienger According to Debra L. Klein

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sugexp=frgbld&gs_nf=1&cp=13&gs_id=1e&xhr=t&q=oyinbo+yoruba&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbm=bks&source=og&sa=N&tab=wp&ei=Ke5lT8b3GubN0QWbt8ybCA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=83eff03ccb2cc236&biw=1043&bih=558

This word Oyinbo is not only used in Nigeria but also by Crelos people in Serri leano and according to them, they got it from the yoruba word

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=nAQIcqwGqTEC&pg=PA80&dq=oyinbo+yoruba&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5e9lT6aKNtK10QW75qWSCA&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=oyinbo%20yoruba&f=false

Oyibo is an Igbo way of saying Oyinbo which was originally never an Igbo word. Lets get our facts right here.

Oye ebeo is what Igbos call white (red) people before they adopted Oyibo

An Igbo writer called Ugo Nwokeji even claims the word Oyibo was borrowed from the yorubas and NEVER AN IGBO WORD. Link below

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=tjLjoC6ScKYC&pg=PA218&dq=oyibo+igbo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0PBlT9--AqLK0QXww7CgCA&ved=0CE0Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=oyibo%20igbo&f=false

it is just like saying the word "na" is orginally hausa or so, we all know that "na" is a corrupt version of "nna" thus of Igbo origin.

Anything of European origin is Eboh in Ika and a White European is called "Onyeboh" or Onyebo in Ika. this can be a possible origin.

Olu317:
Really? So, how come we have the same kind of heroes having similarities even sharing the same picture? Isn't it foolhardy making mockery of history of an individual having identifiable identical “twin" characters as if, it is a script? Anyone can easily claim OLUADAH EXIST based on fictitious character to be named a hero. The Sign, which indicates his name and burial sites doesn't proof anything, as far as I am concerned. He was claimed to have changed names, how come? Why same picture with Thomas Peters? Thomas Peters history is well documented in the US and UK. I will be glad to see documentation of OLUADAH'S existence and his participation during the American Civil war. Kindly do me the honour.Secondly, Either 9th century or older, has nothing to do with the word “OYIBO" OR OYINBO. The reality is that Yoruba had ancient contact older than Ibos with foreigners because of Art, beads, clothing and war expeditions. It is just as the word being used by Ibos “aso ebi", has been adopted,so it won't be a big surprise to see such words being claimed as having been indigenous to Ibos, whereas it's a borrowed term. Anthony Joshua is a Yoruba young man and yet it is hardly seen on the internet being over celebrated because of our conservative nature. You are in a position to inform if it was an Ibo man that made Ibos proud proud, would song will be in Biafrans mouth? Another one is TEMITOPE BALOGUN (T. B JOSHUA) that have been welcome to Israel. Can you see the power of JESUS CHRIST work in the life of another Yoruba man? What about the Lola Odunjinrin(the first man from African to fly round the world)? etc. We Yoruba are more adventurous more than Ibos despite our conservative nature.The whites do more research on Yoruba people because of their curiosity about our identity. Yorubas walk in pride and humility.

Lol. Igbos have never claimed aso ebi, so using that example to buttress your 'claim' of oyinbo is totally irrelevant. The English language has borrowed words and also its native words. I won't even go further with you and absolutesuccess on whether Olaudah existed or not. No western think tank group thinks he's fake except for two half-baked so-called african historians, that's what's more important. Lol

PS: The fame of TB Joshua is nowhere close to that of T. D. Jakes, an African American pastor of Igbo descent. You go figure.

absoluteSuccess:
Bigfrancis
Pazienza,

Can you share a profile of this ex-slave sierra leonian? Is living with Crowther in Lagos a credential that Simon Jonas was an author?

My take is, it is possible for Crowther to be a polyglot, that he learned Igbo from the Igbos around him does not make his work a 'no man's work'.

Where is the proof that Simon Jonas is a linguist? That he can speak both English and Igbo does not make him a linguist.

Otherwise, every Nigerian fluent in english and the native tongue is a linguist too. And every christian can write epistle, a co-traveller with an author or publisher is a writer.

A recourse to Simon Jonas is a clever attempt to rob peter to pay paul, to use a name in record to obliterate a record to achieve collateral damage.

Until you come up with other scholarly works this man did earlier or later to affirm your claims, you know what you are: abominable scoundrels.

Otherwise, this shall be yet another endless ruse of yours from the abominable psyche.

absoluteSuccess:


Sorry for that, I used my wife's fone and not too familiar with its interface like mine. I'm on my own now. Thanks for understanding.



Honestly, I really appreciate your need to teach me the unnecessary, I appreciates.




How does this abrogates the claim that Crowther authored the Ibo primer, 'isoama ibo'? Does this proof that Simon James authored the work in question?

I'm ready to acknowledge the original author of a work as the owner of the idea and not the publisher who produce and circulate the book.

The first book was published from scrolls by Gutemberg, and that was the bible. The man did not claim to have authored the bible.

May I provide you a background: Crowther was a linguist and a cleric, a scholar and pioneer, he was not a merchant or a publisher.

He was answerable to the anglican episcopal. He does not have a publishing outfit of his own, he didn't live in the 20th century west Africa. His own works were published by church mission society.

Maybe you are mistaken Henry Townsend for Ajayi Crowther.

Actually, you are right. Ajayi Crowther who knew no word of Igbo before spoke so very fluent Igbo after living in Onitsha for 3 months only. At the same time he learned how to write Igbo so well and he wrote the manuscript of the Isoama Ibo primer. He was a living genius of his time.

pazienza:


Oyibo is an Igbo word, it wasn't borrowed from any non Igbo group, Oyinbo is Yoruba word that Ndiigbo could care less about how it originated.

An Imo /Abia person whose people don't and never use Oyibo, would of course assume it was a borrowed word, Bekee is the word he/she is used to. Such ignorance is understandable, but can never be used or passed as facts.

And Ugo Nwokeji is likely from Imo/Abia.

Olu317:

You make me laugh. There isn't any iota doubt that Art work existed in Nri and other Ibo enclave but it was a Art unlike the early settlers of Yorubas TERRACOTTA at its finest which is not compared to any part of SUBSAHARA AFRICA. Terra-cotta and bronze the ethnic characteristics of the models are well portrayed, the works resemble the sculpture of ancient Greece or Egyptian art , rather than the culture of black Africa. Furthermore,
it is the terracotta sculpture (and bronzes) which show the art of ancient Ife at its best. Even the Benin heads cannot compare.

The bitter truth is that, we Yoruba had a history different from Ibos. In terms of Art, manufacturing during ancient times etc despite the fact that radiocarbon showed Igboukwu being older than ILE IFE. There are journals written about Africa people on language. For example “They Lived Before Adam: Pre-historic Origins of the Igbo, The Never Been Ruled (2009) and The Lost Testament of the Ancestors of Adam: Unearthing Heliopolis/Igbo Ukwu – The Celestial City of the Gods of Egypt and Dravidian India (2010)." So, I didn't disagree on Art in Ibo land but WAS not on the same class with ancient YORUBAS.

@bold...oh it is a huge surprise that you acknowledged that.

No one compared Igbo-ukwu and Ife artworks and you are the first to jump into comparing both. Ife artworks are mostly heads but Igbo ukwu artworks are not only heads but pendants, beads, pots, etc. The difference in level of finesse, detail and quality between both artworks is not the same. Go read their descriptions again and come back to me.

bigfrancis21:




Actually, you are right. Ajayi Crowther who knew no word of Igbo before spoke so very fluent Igbo after living in Onitsha for 3 months only. At the same time he learned how to write Igbo so well and he wrote the manuscript of the Isoama Ibo primer. He was a living genius of his time.

pazienza:


You know nothing, and I doubt you are from Anambra. No body from Anambra ( North or Central) call white man Bekee, Bekee is used by Igbos from Imo and Abia and was adopted by those who compiled written Igbo language, in favor of Oyibo used in Anambra and Enugu areas.
Stay off issues you know nothing about.

You can use foul words anyhow to insult yourself, not me. There's no way you can bend the standard Igbo in order to suit yourself. The problem you have is that you don't know anything about languages and their origins. In real Igbo, we say 'ala bekee, nwa bekee, asusu bekee w.d.g.' not ala oyibo, nwa oyibo and asusu oyibo.
There are many other Yoruba words that are widely used in Igbo conversation eg; oga(master), oya (get ready), aso ebi/ndi aso ebi (family cloth - for traditional weddings) etc and after you'll open your vocal cavity to claim that they're Igbo words.

Johnpaul09:
You can use foul words anyhow to insult yourself, not me. There's no way you can bend the standard Igbo in order to suit yourself. The problem you have is that you don't know anything about languages and their origins. In real Igbo, we say 'ala bekee, nwa bekee, asusu bekee w.d.g.' not ala oyibo, nwa oyibo and asusu oyibo.
There are many other Yoruba words that are widely used in Igbo conversation eg; oga(master), oya (get ready), aso ebi/ndi aso ebi (family cloth - for traditional weddings) etc and after you'll open your vocal cavity to claim that they're Igbo words.

Nobody say ala bekee in Anambra, that's what they use in Imo and Abia State. We say Obodo Oyibo, asusu Oyibo, onye ocha. There is nothing like real or fake Igbo, every Igbo dialect is real Igbo. That Ala bekee used in Imo and Abia was chosen to represent written Igbo by those who compiled the written Igbo, does not make obodo Oyibo used in Anambra and Enugu wrong /fake Igbo.

Nobody uses Oya in Igboland, we use "Ngwanu", on Aso ebi, I agree with you, and it's generally accepted that it is a copied word, though my grandfather use to call it "ndi Achom di " rather than "ndi Aso ebi ". No Igbo person is claiming Aso ebi or Oya as Igbo words, so stop muddling things up to wriggle yourself out of your self inflicted conundrum.

aljharem:



I wonder when Oyibo became Igbo word Why would you call a foreigner Onye Igbo/Ibo. [size=14pt]That is a big fat lie[/size]. Please Odumchi and co, Know your history and culture well before discussion in cultural issues because an ignoramus would actually believe you all.

The closest was ufeolorun

Oyinbo literal meaning is pealed back honey/ Peeled skinned people which is the termed by yorubas to address light skin forienger According to Debra L. Klein

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sugexp=frgbld&gs_nf=1&cp=13&gs_id=1e&xhr=t&q=oyinbo+yoruba&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbm=bks&source=og&sa=N&tab=wp&ei=Ke5lT8b3GubN0QWbt8ybCA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=83eff03ccb2cc236&biw=1043&bih=558

This word Oyinbo is not only used in Nigeria but also by Crelos people in Serri leano and according to them, they got it from the yoruba word

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=nAQIcqwGqTEC&pg=PA80&dq=oyinbo+yoruba&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5e9lT6aKNtK10QW75qWSCA&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=oyinbo%20yoruba&f=false

Oyibo is an Igbo way of saying Oyinbo which was originally never an Igbo word. Lets get our facts right here.

Oye ebeo is what Igbos call white (red) people before they adopted Oyibo

An Igbo writer called Ugo Nwokeji even claims the word Oyibo was borrowed from the yorubas and NEVER AN IGBO WORD. Link below

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=tjLjoC6ScKYC&pg=PA218&dq=oyibo+igbo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0PBlT9--AqLK0QXww7CgCA&ved=0CE0Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=oyibo%20igbo&f=false

it is just like saying the word "na" is orginally hausa or so, we all know that "na" is a corrupt version of "nna" thus of Igbo origin.

What's that got to do with my post?

pazienza:


Nobody say ala bekee in Anambra, that's what they use in Imo and Abia State. We say Obodo Oyibo, asusu Oyibo, onye ocha. There is nothing like real or fake Igbo, every Igbo dialect is real Igbo. That Ala bekee used in Imo and Abia was chosen to represent written Igbo by those who compiled the written Igbo, does not make obodo Oyibo used in Anambra and Enugu wrong /fake Igbo.

Nobody uses Oya in Igboland, we use "Ngwanu", on Aso ebi, I agree with you, and it's generally accepted that it is a copied word, though my grandfather use to call it "ndi Achom di " rather than "ndi Aso ebi ". No Igbo person is claiming Aso ebi or Oya as Igbo words, so stop muddling things up to wriggle yourself out of your self inflicted conundrum.

Young man, go and meet any Igbo scholar nearest to you, Bekee is the Igbo word for Whites and not Oyibo. Oyibo is derived from a Yoruba word, oyinbo. Oga is also widely used in Igbo conversation, but not Igbo word at all. I didn't see where you mentioned it in you so-called analysis. You need to study the language, do proper verification and thank me later and come out of this your cataclysmic vortex of linguistic doom.
End of discussion!

Johnpaul09:
Young man, go and meet any Igbo scholar nearest to you, Bekee is the Igbo word for Whites and not Oyibo. Oyibo is derived from a Yoruba word, oyinbo. Oga is also widely used in Igbo conversation, but not Igbo word at all. I didn't see where you mentioned it in you so-called analysis. You need to study the language, do proper verification and thank me later and come out of this your cataclysmic vortex of linguist doom.
End of discussion!

Onye ocha's the official term for white man actually. He just told you that no one up north uses bekee. Unu can have your ala bekee and aku bekee but we say and always have said obodo oyibo, aku oyibo. Bekee ended up getting adopted in central Igbo and nothing more.

Some people say that bekee was derived from the Ibibio/Efik mbaraka so in that case bekee's not 'authentically' Igbo either.

bigfrancis21:




Actually, you are right. Ajayi Crowther who knew no word of Igbo before spoke so very fluent Igbo after living in Onitsha for 3 months only. At the same time he learned how to write Igbo so well and he wrote the manuscript of the Isoama Ibo primer. He was a living genius of his time.

You were still thinking the way I think at age eight, assuming my name to be very hard and that nobody can write it. One little boy just did and I was dazed.

There were many ready-made alphabets by the 20th century, in which any language can be reduced to writing within a week. Igbo did not have a unique alphabet but the common abc with some special consonant peculiar to the language.

You just needed an authority from stakeholders to do that as at that time and Crowther step up to the plate. It could have been anybody, I'm just about the fact.

Even alphabet, as it is called derived from greek's alpha, beta, gama, titha and so on, the arabs used aliph, ba, ta, sa. Don't think reducing igbo to writing was a rocket science.

A lot of things are not clear to you.

Johnpaul09:
Young man, go and meet any Igbo scholar nearest to you, Bekee is the Igbo word for Whites and not Oyibo. Oyibo is derived from a Yoruba word, oyinbo. Oga is also widely used in Igbo conversation, but not Igbo word at all. I didn't see where you mentioned it in you so-called analysis. You need to study the language, do proper verification and thank me later and come out of this your cataclysmic vortex of linguistic doom.
End of discussion!

Lol!
Discussion continues. Oburo soso end of discussion.

Johnpaul09:
You can use foul words anyhow to insult yourself, not me. There's no way you can bend the standard Igbo in order to suit yourself. The problem you have is that you don't know anything about languages and their origins. In real Igbo, we say 'ala bekee, nwa bekee, asusu bekee w.d.g.' not ala oyibo, nwa oyibo and asusu oyibo.
There are many other Yoruba words that are widely used in Igbo conversation eg; oga(master), oya (get ready), aso ebi/ndi aso ebi (family cloth - for traditional weddings) etc and after you'll open your vocal cavity to claim that they're Igbo words.

It is often said that 'oga' comes from 'organizer' in pre-colonial days. It came from situations like hosted events, ceremonies or parties where the person in charge, called the 'organizer' which Nigerians freshly exposed to English then had difficulty in pronouncing it in full, and shortened it to 'oga' in pronunciation.

I often see the general 'consensus' among many Nigerians that any popularly used word across Nigeria comes from south west, which isn't always true.

There is no 'real' Igbo or 'fake' Igbo. Your understanding of Igbo is quite cursory and it is evident you didn't grow up in the east, thus viewing Igbo from the side of Igboland you are from. Bekee is an Imo/Abia thing. I am from Anambra but spent about 12 years in Owerri. I only heard 'bekee' outside - at school or in the church etc. My family on both sides (dad - anambra, mom - enugu) all used Oyibo. Even my paternal grandmother's name is Oyibolalu. Imo/Abia people sometimes even use oyibo, depending on the situation.

You mentioned you grew up in the west and your only understanding or exposure to Igboland was through your immediate family members who are from Imo/Abia, thus I am not surprised you think the 'real Igbo' word is 'bekee'. You are not that exposed as you think.

absoluteSuccess:


You were still thinking the way I think at age eight, assuming my name to be very hard and that nobody can write it. One little boy just did and I was dazed.

There were many ready-made alphabets by the 20th century, in which any language can be reduced to writing within a week. Igbo did not have a unique alphabet but the common abc with some special consonant peculiar to the language.

You just needed an authority from stakeholders to do that as at that time and Crowther step up to the plate. It could have been anybody, I'm just about the fact.

Even alphabet, as it is called derived from greek's alpha, beta, gama, titha and so on, the arabs used aliph, ba, ta, sa. Don't think reducing igbo to writing was a rocket science.

A lot of things are not clear to you.

Nna eh, are you still arguing? I told you, you are right and Ajayi Crowther was such a genius of his time who wrote the Isoama Ibo primer manuscript after living in Igbo land for only 3 months. What else again do you want to hear?

cc. bigfrancis21

I might've started a thread a while ago about the origins of certain Naijalingo words. What do you think of sef, sha, ehya, kissing teeth (mtchew), o as a suffix for emphasis (aka okay oo) and all those other Nigerian mannerisms that we use every day? Igbo or Yoruba origin?

Probz:
cc. bigfrancis21

I might've started a thread a while ago about the origins of certain Naijalingo words. What do you think of sef, sha, ehya, kissing teeth (mtchew), o as a suffix for emphasis (aka okay oo) and all those other Nigerian mannerisms that we use every day? Igbo or Yoruba origin?

Honestly for some of them I can't really tell, like 'sef', 'sha' etc. I do know we use the 'ooo' emphasis a lot in Igbo. For example, rapu m aka ooo. Probably of Igbo origin? I am not sure.

bigfrancis21:


Lol. Igbos have never claimed aso ebi, so using that example to buttress your 'claim' of oyinbo is totally irrelevant. The English language has borrowed words and also its native words. I won't even go further with you and absolutesuccess on whether Olaudah existed or not. No western think tank group thinks he's fake except for two half-baked so-called african historians, that's what's more important. Lol

PS: The fame of TB Joshua is nowhere close to that of T. D. Jakes, an African American pastor of Igbo descent. You go figure.

I will take it from the last ,T. B Jake that doesn't have Bishop Oyedepo's congregation or pastor Adeboye's congregation. T.B Joshua likewise other Yoruba pastors are from Nigeria. Secondly, I wonder if T.B Jake's DNA make him Ibo. I don't have his DNA details but I will want you to prove it because Ibos can make things up. I can recall that Ibos have mischievously lied on so many occasions. For instance

Blair Underwood
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blair_Underwood

1) Underwood's DNA test showed that he is a descendant of the Babungo people of Cameroon. Additional DNA testing and genealogical research revealed that his African ancestry comes from the Bamum, Brong, Yoruba, and lgbo ethnic groups of Western Africa.The DNA test also connected Blair to a distant cousin in Babungo, Cameroon.The test also revealed that he is of 26% European and 74% Sub-Saharan African ancestry.
If any tribe wants to claim "Blair Underwood" it is supposed to be Cameroon, not Igbos, so remove him from your useless: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igbo_American

2) Edward Wilmot Blyden, was never an Igbo man, he was a Yoruba man and never Igbo man. But Igbo people mischievously put him on their:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igbo_American

Another set of Yoruba too
“1) Karreem Abdul Jabbar -- the Lakers legend just confirmed from his DNA test that he is Yoruba
2) Judge Glenda Hatchett was crying in the court house when she told the crowd that her DNA confirmed she is Yoruba
3) Carlton E. Brown (current president of Clark university, Atlanta, Ga.
4) Theo Martins -- a rapper
5) Yoruba Richen -- Anthropologist
6) Robert Johnson Omohundro Nuclear Scientist
7) Booker Teniafeni Washington

Your people (Ibo) are the first set of people to claim the largest ethnic group in Africa via YouTube. Imagine? I doubt any information on your claim except you give me his DNA record.
Ibos are still the group of people that kept claiming JEWISH and yet Ibo have nothing close to you tradition close to Jewish in terms of using animal for ritualism(heifer,white ram and lamb etc) . Even the head Priest in Yoruba land is called ARABA close to RABBI (JEWISH PRIEST)
Temitope Balogun went to Israel with pride and he has become the talk of the town over there,because of the power of healing through him from almighty God. In fact how many presidents or extremely powerful people have visited J. D Jake where he is in America? I am waiting for the day Ibos will be classified as Neanderthals. Then I can be begin to believe your theory of Jewish link.
I had to refresh your memory because I doubt most information you people provide. Some years ago, there was a study that mentioned Ibo as EGYPTIANS. It confirms the pyramid story because of Ibos language connection. Have you read it?

bigfrancis21:


Lol. Igbos have never claimed aso ebi, so using that example to buttress your 'claim' of oyinbo is totally irrelevant. The English language has borrowed words and also its native words. I won't even go further with you and absolutesuccess on whether Olaudah existed or not. No western think tank group thinks he's fake except for two half-baked so-called african historians, that's what's more important. Lol

PS: The fame of TB Joshua is nowhere close to that of T. D. Jakes, an African American pastor of Igbo descent. You go figure.

You love to make up accusations a lot, just to do your mudfighting stuffs. Who cares about your weeping for Equanox? When did I questioned his existence? I'm not your kind of man.

What I said to that effect is, how do we know if the 'red eboe' were the Arochukwu slave dealers or the white men at the coast buying the slaves from them that the record refers to.

I expected you to make clarification in this area to buttress your point, but your tribal bigotry was given you a seizure and you can't help spewing tick muccossa stuffs in that instance.

I know you have comprehension issue due to your tribal monomaniac tendencies. Just relax and read to comprehend, take the lagoon off your mind for a seconds, ndo.

bigfrancis21:


It is often said that 'oga' comes from 'organizer' in pre-colonial days. It came from situations like hosted events, ceremonies or parties where the person in charge, called the 'organizer' which Nigerians freshly exposed to English then had difficulty in pronouncing it in full, and shortened it to 'oga' in pronunciation.

I often see the general 'consensus' among many Nigerians that any popularly used word across Nigeria comes from south west, which isn't always true.

There is no 'real' Igbo or 'fake' Igbo. Your understanding of Igbo is quite cursory and it is evident you didn't grow up in the east, thus viewing Igbo from the side of Igboland you are from. Bekee is an Imo/Abia thing. I am from Anambra but spent about 12 years in Owerri. I only heard 'bekee' outside - at school or in the church etc. My family on both sides (dad - anambra, mom - enugu) all used Oyibo. Even my paternal grandmother's name is Oyibolalu. Imo/Abia people sometimes even use oyibo, depending on the situation.

You mentioned you grew up in the west and your only understanding or exposure to Igboland was through your immediate family members who are from Imo/Abia, thus I am not surprised you think the 'real Igbo' word is 'bekee'. You are not that exposed as you think.

Where did you claim Oga originated from again?

Bigfrancis! bigfrancis!! bigfrancis21!!!

How many times did I called you?

Are you insane?

How does organising rhyme with Oga when its not 'ogernizing'? The Yoruba have both organ and orga in their words before the West arrived here:

Oga, hierarchy, leader. Note, this has no organisational undertone, but have to do with top echelon of human endeavour.

Organ (ogan) anthill, as it is said: okiti-ogan, ori ara re nii jin le, meaning, anthill: upon itself must it capitulate. This proverb is meant to answer the tapering structural mannerisms of anthills.

Other conceptualization of the word Oga are as follows:

Oga: chameleon, o ga: something that puff itself up, because the animal often raise its back upward when touched.

Ega: the common bird that form a band and nest in colony. The bird is so called because....

Iga: this is Yoruba for realm, quarters or family-conclave. It is because of this that the social bird, ega is so called.

Organising is ileto or eto in Yoruba. It is a concrete slang nowadays to call people 'organising' among bus stop touts, even there, it doesn't mean oga.

bigfrancis21:


@bold...oh it is a huge surprise that you acknowledged that.

No one compared Igbo-ukwu and Ife artworks and you are the first to jump into comparing both. Ife artworks are mostly heads but Igbo ukwu artworks are not only heads but pendants, beads, pots, etc. The difference in level of finesse, detail and quality between both artworks is not the same. Go read their descriptions again and come back to me.

I don't believe in falsification of information which tend to be mocked after a while . Instead, I believe in being studious and acquiring information from such study. I strongly believe in the usage of all forms of method known to mankind in getting my fact. So, I don't believe in pretence to claim what's not. Radiocarbon test, Family chain(geneology), DNA, Art on Bronze heads and other Terracotta Sculptures,Costly Beads with inscription of Solomon's knob (Endless Knob) for royal families, Noble families , Clothing manufacturing etc proves the point that my tribe isn't from ILE IFE and it helped my own research and history to be true against some Afrocentric coloured men within my Ethnicity whose ideology are restricted to ILE IFE and environs which very unlike the local people that believe that they came from the Middle East . So, Igbo Ukwu is older than ILE IFE when radiocarbon test's was carried out.

absoluteSuccess:


Where did you claim Oga originated from again?

Bigfrancis! bigfrancis!! bigfrancis21!!!

How many times did I called you?

Are you insane?

How does organising rhyme with Oga when its not 'ogernizing'? The Yoruba have both organ and orga in their words before the West arrived here:

Oga, hierarchy, leader. Note, this has no organisational undertone, but have to do with top echelon of human endeavour.

Organ (ogan) anthill, as it is said: okiti-ogan, ori ara re nii jin le, meaning, anthill: upon itself must it capitulate. This proverb is meant to answer the tapering structural mannerisms of anthills.

Other conceptualization of the word Oga are as follows:

Oga: chameleon, o ga: something that puff itself up, because the animal often raise its back upward when touched.

Ega: the common bird that form a band and nest in colony. The bird is so called because....

Iga: this is Yoruba for realm, quarters or family-conclave. It is because of this that the social bird, ega is so called.

Organising is ileto or eto in Yoruba. It is a concrete slang nowadays to call people 'organising' among bus stop touts, even there, it doesn't mean oga.

How many times did you called or call him? Don't lay into someone if your grammar's a joke.