^^ is this ogaga?

JeSoul:


hmmm. . . I don't wanna sound brash, but this method of giving sounds way too legalistic. Where's the room for the holy spirit to either lead you to give more or even less? Its not about how much you give, but the heart with which you give it and when it becomes a rigid system like you mention above it defeats the purpose. But hey do what you will sister.

i know, a friend wa telling me there was this money he was saving to give to the church (tithes I guess) but he felt led to give it to a family and he didnt know why, and it turns out it was the exact amount the family was praying for!

So Im confused, did he do wrong because he didnt pay his tithe , or does it really matter that you are giving to a church?

platinumnk:

i know, a friend wa telling me there was this money he was saving to give to the church (tithes I guess) but he felt led to give it to a family and he didnt know why, and it turns out it was the exact amount the family was praying for!

So Im confused, did he do wrong because he didnt pay his tithe , or does it really matter that you are giving to a church?

I love this! your friend did exactly right!

This is what I meant by that system being legalistic, it does not allow for the move of the Holy spirit to lead and direct us on how to give. Your friend is 100% right because he was led by the spirit - and that is never wrong. If one chooses to tithe, give offerings etc nowhere are we told it is to be exclusively given to only the church, nowhere in the bible.

We are to give freely and as God leads us - sometimes it'll be to a church, sometimes a friend, sometimes a local charity etc. Christians have unwittingly boxed themselves into this slavish, cold system of churning out 10% every week. I daresay this is not what the bible teaches.

So what about the verse where it says "Give to Ceasor what belongs to Ceasor" ?

Ndibabe, abeg, which Church you dey attend?

Hi guys,
I believe that contribution should be made based on the knowledge on have on any issue. Please be careful about what you say. It may be funny but let's be careful.
@poster, what I've learnt about first fruit is that it should be given to priest. It either the first job salary or first profit etc depending on what you do (read lev and deut). After the first fruit, subsequently is your tithes and offerings. I do not agree that first fruit is a yearly thing that is not scriptural. I believe you are a Christian and you pray. If you do, then ask the Holy Spirit to lead you.

platinumnk:

So what about the verse where it says "Give to Ceasor what belongs to Ceasor" ?

Simply means to pay your taxes - to the government - look it up, Jesus was very clear on that. It wasn't "pay to the church". We don't "pay" anything to God (as if we are in possession of anything He needs), which is why I highly dislike the common phrase of "paying of tithes". We give as a form of worship to God as He has blessed us and as we decide in our hearts - be it $10 for a whole year or $1000000.

platinumnk:


So Im confused, did he do wrong because he didnt pay his tithe , or does it really matter that you are giving to a church?

no, he didn't do wrong. in fact, he was right for obeying the Holy Spirit's leading. as long as he gave it to God in his heart it is a tithe, doesn't have to be given to a pastor or to the church to be classified as a tithe.

platinumnk:

So what about the verse where it says "Give to Ceasor what belongs to Ceasor" ?

christians should pay their bills and taxes.

oh wow, this changes my whole outlook

Ill think on this, this makes a lot more sense. . .

And if you have 2 wives or 2 children, you give the first to your pastor abi?

Nope . . . .i think most shd go to your parents.
10% to the church and whatever you feel like to your pastor.
But it is a personal thing

i thought that offerings comes from the heart, thats how the pressure led a guy to steal huge amount of money from the hotel he works 4 and gave it to a church, and still after confirming that the money was stollen the church refused to return the money,

^^^ True Dat

Protestants and their beliefs. well watever works for them.
Dont discourage anyone who wants to give his entire salary to the pastor, who is the church by the way. How do u know the one you re paying to the 'church' doesn't end up in his account anyway.

The pastor overlooked the context of the instruction in Ezekiel 44. When God divided up the land of Cannan among the tribes of Israel, the Levites were the only tribe that did not receive an inheritance. The Lord required them to keep their focus on serving Him only. They did not work, or make a living, so they were given a portion of the firstfruits and other offerings (not all of it) as their source of income. If we interpret this in today's context, then you can assume that the salary the pastor receives from the church is his portion of the firstfruit - a part of the tithes and offerings paid into the church, that is given to him for his upkeep. See Ezekiel 44:28 for clarification (posted below).

28 I am to be the only inheritance the priests have. You are to give them no possession in Israel; I will be their possession. 29 They will eat the grain offerings, the sin offerings and the guilt offerings; and everything in Israel devoted to the LORD will belong to them. 30 The best of all the firstfruits and of all your special gifts will belong to the priests. You are to give them the first portion of your ground meal so that a blessing may rest on your household. 31 The priests must not eat anything, bird or animal, found dead or torn by wild animals.

Consultant:

The pastor overlooked the context of the instruction in Ezekiel 44. When God divided up the land of Cannan among the tribes of Israel, the Levites were the only tribe that did not receive an inheritance. The Lord required them to keep their focus on serving Him only. They did not work, or make a living, so they were given a portion of the firstfruits and other offerings (not all of it) as their source of income. If we interpret this in today's context, then you can assume that the salary the pastor receives from the church is his portion of the firstfruit - a part of the tithes and offerings paid into the church, that is given to him for his upkeep. See Ezekiel 44:28 for clarification (posted below).

Welcome Consultant, I'm sure I remember you from before, before. But if I'm mistaken, welcome anyway. And if you're not been away, or are new, then, ooops sorry !

I for one see cross testamental references and themes and shadows & types. But I don't agree the we should lift OT practices, laws or dictates and wholesale apply them to NT Chrisitan life. Neither do I think - or more precisely, I do not see the scriptures as teaching - we should somehow re-work or re-interprete OT mores to configure NT practice.

To the detriment of many, the law and prohets are confused and/or mixed with grace. Moses is mistaken for Christ.

There is no distinct or seperate mediatory priesthood in Christianity. To apply Ezekiel 44 as you have, is somehow morphing the levitical/Aaronic priesthood with that of Christ. That priesthood and the law that was structured around it has been done away with.

God bless
TV

Growing up and in the village, our Church used to organize First fruit offering called "Eno Mfri". During that ceremony, church goers will donate their first fruits, like farm produce and poultry to the Church who will then sell these gifts to them at a higher amount. My pastor explained that the proceeds from that money was used in renovating the Church. I never questioned it, and would like to think that it came from the heart. As of the first fruit, the Pastor of my current Church quoted from the Holy Bible on the importance of giving the first fruits. I wont question it, but like I would insist, let it come from the heart and not done by compulsion.

There is no distinct or seperate mediatory priesthood in Christianity. To apply Ezekiel 44 as you have, is somehow morphing the levitical/Aaronic priesthood with that of Christ. That priesthood and the law that was structured around it has been done away with.

TV01, thanks for welcoming me back. And you're right, once upon a time I was more active on this forum, but other things took precedent.

To the topic, I think you make an excellent point - there is no mediatory priesthood in the new testament. Jesus has played that part for us once, and for all. The only reason I tried to put it in current day context was to butress my belief that the pastor had misintepreted the scripture, and if he was using it as a basis to ask for offerings, then his salary should suffice.

Hmmm . . . someones getting paid under the table i.e pastor,deacon

[b]No, this is fraud!  The Pastor got it wrong! It is true that God commanded these words to Ezekiel, but it all boiled down to the circumstances at the time.  The people of Israel were doing detestable things against God e.g idol worshipping, desecrating God's temple, breaking his covenant whilst worshipping and serving him. The only group who were faithful and kept God's decrees where the Levites who were priests and were allowed to enter God's sanctuary to offer sacrifices to him.  Even so, God gave them conditions in which to serve him:

[list]
[li] They were to wear linen clothes and not woollen garments while ministering etc.  Does your pastor do so?[/li]

[li]To wear linen turbans and undergarments.  Does your pastor wear turban?[/li]

[li]To take off the clothes they have been ministering in, leave them in the sacred room and put on other clothes before mingling with the people.  Does the pastor do that? [/li]


[li]The priests must not shave their heads nor let it grow long but trim it.  That am sure he would do.[/li]


[li]The priests must not marry widows or divorced women, they must marry only virgins of the Israelites decent or widows of priests. Did he also do that?

Well, if he didn't I suggest you give your first fruit to God and not to man.  Make it clear in the note accompanying your first seed what you meant the money for e.g. 'This first seed of the year is for Gods work only.' It's between him and God what he does with it and no more your problems![/li] [/list]

You see how some of these pastors are abusing people any how they like using the word of God.  But I worry for many who could not read their Bibles and interpret the word of God based on circumstances at the time whilst  comparing with the current times. These people should know we are not all idiots - some of us can query things you know! 

So, follow the example of Abraham and give 10% of your earning (and not all your money, please) as the Lord has blessed you this month.  Remember, Abraham promised God that he would give him 10% of all he blessed him with therefore, do the same and ignore your greedy pastor.  If I were you, I would change Church! 
[/b]

platinumnk:

so what exactly are u saying?

He is saying exactly what I meant when I said thus:

Bokoharam:

I hate when the Church (Christians) leave Christ and begin to preach Abraham, David, Solomon, Ezekiel & Malachi. I believe we know how much Christ orchestrated mammon and worshipped money. We tend not to know the difference b/w Judaism and Christianity.

Probably we call Jesus a fool. Satan is truly at work. May God forgive us for Christ's sake.

Living under the law means 99% success is equal to 0% accomplished. That's what the Bible says.

Christ never emphasised money. He never asked anybody to bring money to him. He never preached tithe and tithing; the only place He mentioned it was sarcastic, when He was referring to Pharisees and Saducees. And that is why He warned us that on the last day, many pastors who "performed wonders on earth" will be asking Him to come and deliver them. That's what He meant when He said that many are called but few are chosen.

Guys, the bible is not a book of theology, neither is it any of shakespare's phrases. The bible is GOD'S word in print. And it's faith and not mouth that moves GOD. WHILE I dont utterly support the Pastor, you need to understand that the kingdom of GOD is guided by principles. We believe offerings are to GOD, BUT does God come down to claim the offerings? Mal. 3:7to18 matt. 10:41to42

it completely obvious that this pastor is nothing but a pure SCAM .its a pity that some so called pastors are taking undue advantage of people . we should also apreciate the fact that "GIVING" is relative and not restricted to just the money you give.

buhahahahahahahhahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
give to who ??

the WHOLE of it wonderful palava !!

@POSTER

FIRST FRUIT TO PASTOR SAY WETIN HAPPEN, I WILL PAY MY THITHES THEN REACH TO MY PARENTS, NO LONG STORY.

Did the Pastor send you to school, where was Pastor when your Parent struggled to educate you?

@SERENKO

MAY BE HE DEY BIBLE SCHOOL, HUN GOD AVE MERCY

@FFA

FFA:

@POSTER

FIRST FRUIT TO PASTOR SAY WETIN HAPPEN, I WILL PAY MY THITHES THEN REACH TO MY PARENTS, NO LONG STORY.

EVen the tithes you "pay" is not required of you as a christian, pastors arriv at such things through scriptural manipullation.

tithes and first fruits were never practised by chistians in the bible.There are all later inventions.

For the umpteenth time we have said it on these forum,that the mosaic laws are no longer applicable,
it apears a lot of peole still want to rem,ain in bondage.

One thing wit he mosaic law is that it comes wit na curse observing on e pat of the law while neglectng the other might attract the curse stated in gal 3:10.

The mosaic law entails a lot practices not just the lucrative tithes and first fruits but also a lot of other practices among which are the observation of the three important jewish feasts of Passsover,shelter and unleavend bread.

Pastors don't emphasize the observation of these feasts because it won't bring money into their pocket.They keep quoting malachi 3:8-10 when preaching tithing leaving out deut 14:22-29,which was where the law of tithe was actually given.

They don't quote deut because it was so explicit that even a dumb man would understand the real meaning of tithes.

tithes were paid only once in three years(deut 14:28,deut 26:12),and never involved money.Also it was never paid to anyother tribe other than the tribe of levi which no nigerian pastor belongs

chukwudi44:


tithes were paid only once in three years(deut 14:28,deut 26:12),and never involved money.Also it was never paid to anyother tribe other than the tribe of levi which no nigerian pastor belongs

You are being mis-led to use the terminolody "paid" when referring to tithes as we both know the tithes was never a paid thing in the bible it was given as it was not a monetary item like most people have been mis-led into believing. The tribe of Levi were given a part of the tithes and not paid it.

For the benfit of those on this thread who are not aware that mordern day tithing as defined and practised in our churches todayis derived from scriptural manipulation i would post the deuteronomy passage here which clearly defines tithes and it's purpose contrary to the wrong man made definition preached in churches today.

Deuteronomy 14:22-29:
The Giving of Tithes

22 “You must set aside a tithe of your crops—one-tenth of all the crops you harvest each year. 23 Bring this tithe to the designated place of worship—the place the Lord your God chooses for his name to be honored—and eat it there in his presence. This applies to your tithes of grain, new wine, olive oil, and the firstborn males of your flocks and herds. Doing this will teach you always to fear the Lord your God.

24 “Now when the Lord your God blesses you with a good harvest, the place of worship he chooses for his name to be honored might be too far for you to bring the tithe. 25 If so, you may sell the tithe portion of your crops and herds, put the money in a pouch, and go to the place the Lord your God has chosen. 26 When you arrive, you may use the money to buy any kind of food you want—cattle, sheep, goats, wine, or other alcoholic drink. Then feast there in the presence of the Lord your God and celebrate with your household. 27 And do not neglect the Levites in your town, for they will receive no allotment of land among you.

28 “At the end of every third year, bring the entire tithe of that year’s harvest and store it in the nearest town. 29 Give it to the Levites, who will receive no allotment of land among you, as well as to the foreigners living among you, the orphans, and the widows in your towns, so they can eat and be satisfied. Then the Lord your God will bless you in all your work.

pity

some peeps follow pastor(even to their grave)


ull be suprised pastors go dey full hell.

FOR ME ITS A PERSONAL CHOICE.

ITS NOT EVERY TIN THAT A PASTOR SAYS THAT I CARRY OUT.

FOR CHRIST SAKE THESE PASTORS ARE

HUMAN beings!!! THEY HAVE FEELINGS, GET ANGRY AND HAVE FRAILTIES LIKE U AND ME. THEY CANT BE ALWAYS RITE.!!


the issue of tithes were to be given to the levi, WHO HAD NO PROPERTIES OF THEIR OWN (NOWadays pastors can be seen driving the latest cars, own private jet and the likes).


when christ died in the new testament, the veil covering the sanctuary was torn and open for all to have access!!!

meaning that the order of the levi was abolished.inclusive of all the practices meant to sustain them and their families (tithes, offerings, live burnt offerings)


instead concentrate on giving the needy some help, thats what jesus mostly hammered on when he was here on earth



just my 2 cents

It is absolutely WRONG if only you do it without FAITH!

first fruit 2 GOD not 2 a pastor so dear run as fast as your legs can b 4