Zoolezoo:


The Yorubas and Igalas started out as the same ancestral stock of people, journeying from the lake chad region.
When they got to the Niger benue confluence area, both groups bifurcated. (ie split into two primordial groups).

One group branched to the western part of the confluence and became large and expansive. The other group branched eastern direction of the river and became not so successful. The Western fold are the Yorubas. This arm of the migration spread and grew into various dialects. The Eastern dialects closer to the original point of the spit are the older dialects, while the more westwards you go, the more innovative and recent the dialects get.

Igala preserved one branch of the original language they spoke. The Yorubas, (especially the eastern groups) preserve the other.
Igala however came into contact with some other languages like Jukun infusion of new words (like attah) which took place when they came under Kwararafa territorial ambitions and expansion ,Idoma, and Igbo words (like Abacha and akpu), due to their geographical location close to some of those groups. Yoruba came into contact with mostly nothing. All dialectal variations of their language have been mostly self driven and natural deviations, except again on the South Eastern flank where Itsekiri, Ilaje, Ikale, Ondo, etc came into contact with Benin language.

The Itsekiris themselves are a medley of various southeastern Yoruboid groups like the Ijebus (Ugborodo, Omadino, Ureju, Inorinetc). This groups came from the ijebu waterside area and Ode Omi + Ikale, Ilaje, Owo, Akure. Majority of the founding stock seem to have been Ilaje-Ikale.

Benin itself has always received a steady stream of migrants from the Yoruba hinterland throughout almost all of its history. Hence both languages converge in certain regards and words, as well as certain customs. There are towns in Edo like Usen that have Yoruba founders. And if towns deep in the heart of Delta north can have Proven Yoruba origin, I am sure there would be specific urhobo stocks with Yoruba foundation, or at least a heavy infusion of Yoruba and Itsekiri ancestry in their early origins as well.

Things like dressing style, use of extensive beading etc, has little or nothing to do with origin as they are both recent phenomena. Coral beads aren't even indigenous to Western Africa. Which would mean that before Europeans brought them in large quantities to trade barter with the Itsekiris and Benins, all these groups, Eastern and Coastal Yorubas, Benins, Itsekiris, Urhobos, Isokos all likely dressed in similar manner.
Even today, not all Yoruba groups use beading in the same volume The Owos are HEAVY on beading, while the oyos seem to be very light on beading. Its just a continuum of one ethnic group linking into another - given the large size and territorial range of the Yorubas, there is heavy variation. You will need to assume all of Yorubaland in one country to really get the full picture. Some groups of Yorubaland behave like dahomeans. in Dance, Music, Dressing etc.

I hope you get what all my ramblings are about sha.

9jakool:

Just beautiful! You know your stuff. It's almost as if I'm staring at myself in a mirror. I wanted you to keep rambling because your words are just spot on. I've familiarize myself with every corner of Yorubaland including dialects and traditions.

Yes you are right about Owo and Oyo. Do you know the Ologho regalia is different from that of many Yorubas. His regalia is very similar to that of Benin's. The chieftaincy titles are also different from that of Oyo and very similar to Benin's. Owo like other Eastern Yorubas like Ijebu, Ilaje, Ondo, Owe, Oworo, Bunu, etc have so many kinds of local/regional traditional garments and fabrics that are different from the general Yoruba garments and fabrics.

Eastern Yoruba dialects are also very intriguing. In ondo state, some names of towns have been standardized in the Oyo/Ibadan variant of Yoruba. For example
Owo- Ogho
Idanre- Udanrhe
Ile Oluji- Ule Oluji

Other names of towns like Ugbo, Ugbonla, etc have remained unchanged.

I just hope these dialects can continuously be spoken.

You are so right about the variations. Do you know that some Yoruba subgroups don't even have the obaship system or believe in oduduwa?

9jakool:

Just beautiful! You know your stuff. It's almost as if I'm staring at myself in a mirror. I wanted you to keep rambling because your words are just spot on. I've familiarize myself with every corner of Yorubaland including dialects and traditions.

Yes you are right about Owo and Oyo. Do you know the Ologho regalia is different from that of many Yorubas. His regalia is very similar to that of Benin's. The chieftaincy titles are also different from that of Oyo and very similar to Benin's. Owo like other Eastern Yorubas like Ijebu, Ilaje, Ondo, Owe, Oworo, Bunu, etc have so many kinds of local/regional traditional garments and fabrics that are different from the general Yoruba garments and fabrics.

Eastern Yoruba dialects are also very intriguing. In ondo state, some names of towns have been standardized in the Oyo/Ibadan variant of Yoruba. For example
Owo- Ogho
Idanre- Udanrhe
Ile Oluji- Ule Oluji

Other names of towns like Ugbo, Ugbonla, etc have remained unchanged.

I just hope these dialects can continuously be spoken.

You are so right about the variations. Do you know that some Yoruba subgroups don't even have the obaship system or believe in oduduwa?

macof:



Which Yoruba groups don't have obaship system or believe in oduduwa?

Zoolezoo:


Yes, the Eastern Yoruba dialects are way older than the Western ones. Oyo even seems to be probably the newest. So many innovations and consonant simplifications.

Gh to W
Gw to W
Ch to S
U to I (At word beginnings)
Nasal ON to UN
Nasal EN to IN
NE to NI

All these might look minor, but when they all come together and manifest in a long sentence , it convulates things a bit.
A word like palace (Oghofen in original form) becomes just Afin in Oyo. Person (One) becomes Eni. Money (Egho) becomes Owo. Etc

An untrained Yoruba ear from Ibadan or Lagos can't understand these dialects, even though they are actually more authentic.

You should visit traditional events in Ondo town, Owo, Or any Ondo state town and see how heavily they bead. Almost like the Benins in many regards. But then, that is not really surprising. Even their music is different.

Listen to these:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_N4itjiS7w


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l-FwFNuNTM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnh3OwvhyIA

Oyo was a savannah state and was actually part of a zone of active cultural diffusions between the Sudano-Sahelian and savannah West African states. And so, with them came the Agbada which would later spread all over Yorubaland. I just laugh when I hear some Yorubas saying today that Yoruba men don't tie cloth around their torsos. Yes they did tie wrappers, and still do.

Infact it used to be general clothing, but these days, any male who dorns a wrapper-esque clothing is looked upon like some kinf of conc traditionalist/medicine man.

Zoolezoo:


Yes, the Eastern Yoruba dialects are way older than the Western ones. Oyo even seems to be probably the newest. So many innovations and consonant simplifications.

Gh to W
Gw to W
Ch to S
U to I (At word beginnings)
Nasal ON to UN
Nasal EN to IN
NE to NI

All these might look minor, but when they all come together and manifest in a long sentence , it convulates things a bit.
A word like palace (Oghofen in original form) becomes just Afin in Oyo. Person (One) becomes Eni. Money (Egho) becomes Owo. Etc

An untrained Yoruba ear from Ibadan or Lagos can't understand these dialects, even though they are actually more authentic.

You should visit traditional events in Ondo town, Owo, Or any Ondo state town and see how heavily they bead. Almost like the Benins in many regards. But then, that is not really surprising. Even their music is different.

Listen to these:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_N4itjiS7w


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l-FwFNuNTM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnh3OwvhyIA

Oyo was a savannah state and was actually part of a zone of active cultural diffusions between the Sudano-Sahelian and savannah West African states. And so, with them came the Agbada which would later spread all over Yorubaland. I just laugh when I hear some Yorubas saying today that Yoruba men don't tie cloth around their torsos. Yes they did tie wrappers, and still do.

Infact it used to be general clothing, but these days, any male who dorns a wrapper-esque clothing is looked upon like some kinf of conc traditionalist/medicine man.

Olu317:
You people have started. It is obvious you are BINI or their apologist, if not, why comparison? Didn't BINI learn everything from ILE IFE? Kindly save that stuff about pride from someone like me from that egocentrism about BINI this, BINI that. This is Urhobo thread and it is quite fascinating reading all these postulation. Don't bring in Yoruba issue into it because it will become messy.

9jakool:


I don't know his/her ethnicity, but I don't think he/she is displaying Bini egocentrism, but it's a posibility nonetheless. Those names of the clothing styles that I just mentioned up there are native to Yorubas of Ondo-Ijebu area and they are not Edo in origin.

Lol, thanks for reminding me. I forgot that this is an Urhobo thread, I might create another thread about this.

Olu317:
You people have started. It is obvious you are BINI or their apologist, if not, why comparison? Didn't BINI learn everything from ILE IFE? Kindly save that stuff about pride from someone like me from that egocentrism about BINI this, BINI that. This is Urhobo thread and it is quite fascinating reading all these postulation. Don't bring in Yoruba issue into it because it will become messy.

Zoolezoo:


I won't respond to you here in full, because like you said, it is an Urhobo thread. We should let the Urhobos enjoy their thread.
First I am not Benin, nor am I a Benin apologist.... But your insecurity and close mindedness to discussing the natural diversity within Yoruba has has exposed you as a close minded person.

dialect is not the only difference between Eastern and Western Yorubas in case you dont know. There are many others. Oyo Yoruba rely havily on the talking drum in their music for example. Drums drums and more drums everywhere, usually the strap around shoulder ones. If you go to places like Ekiti/Akure, Okitipupa/Ode Idepe/Ode Irele, Idanre etc, you would notice that it isn't all about drums. They have different tempos and genres of music, more Agogos, more diverse drum types, and many instruments I don't even know their English names. In Oyo music, all these are absent.

Like 9jakool also pointed out, their chieftancy and some traditional practices also differs to some extent.

In Owo, we have the Ugbama, Ughare, Igharo (men over 50), Olisagho, Edibo, Ogwamodu.
The first place the owos settled after leaving Ife is called Ugbo Ogwata, also known as Okiti Asegbo (Asegbo Hill).\All these are veery different from what is obtainable in standard Yoruba.
Infact, even Ufe (Ife) dialect is closer to what is obtainable in Ekiti/Ondo/Ijebu/Ijesha/Owe(Kabba)/Ijumu etc, than what it is in Oyo.

A traditional square/hall is called an Ugha....... similar to Iga Iduganran in Lagos (standardized Oyo version).
Look at the Olowo, his hands are placed on two white pieces of clothing and supported by two stewards (odibo), left and right. Does anywhere in the Western Yoruba sphere of culture do that with their Obas?



9jakool, open a thread about the diversity in the customs and traditions of Yoruba clans, and I will join you there.

scionofurhobo:



Are you Urhobo? If your answer is no, you can't understand. If you are Urhobo and you can't understand that the Urhobo language is the Universal language, and that things I say are the plain truth, then you are in for a long thing.

scionofurhobo:
I am sorry I may not be able to reply every mentions, but let it be known that Records of our ancestors are stored and locked up in the bodies of the succeeding generations. When you unlock it, nobody would tell you your story or history.

Urhobo Wad-do-o!

anthney87:
The problem with we Nigerians are that we talk too much without thinking and investigating.

From my own sourced knowledge before now I learnt the urhobos ika Edo's Yoruba were descendants from Egypt or preferably the Nile.

When a war broke out the original inhabitants of Egypt ran away founding different nations as they ran.(know the the present inhabitants of Egypt are total foreigners mostly Arabs from the east)

If you look closely from certain pronunciations of the then Egyptians you will find out that they resemble most words pronounced in our present urhobi Edo and ika.

Please when issues like this comes up we should learn to ask the good questions like how and when and why and where not cursing and ranting when we know nothing.

For the urhobos we have lost a great deal of our culture and history and yes we are settled today in pur present locality by coming in through the Benin route( also the ika pipo and isoko pipo? Making us believe we originated from Edo but our true ancestry lies in Egypt.

OyinO:
OP, you're 99% on Point. Great post.

Sanchez01:
ScionofUrhobo, these are very difficult to take in and truth be told, the whole thing seems unbelievable. The history of the Urhobos have from time immemorial being a debate as their are four postulations concerning this same thing

The first is that the Urhobos are the original dwellers and owners of their territory who have been living in their territories from time immemorial. (I find this unbelievable because migration would have happened and that would best explain the similarity between ours and some Edoid groups.)

The second tradition is that the Urhobos left Edo at the end of the Ogiso dynasty in search of more peaceful locations as a result of “cruelty, animosity and tyranny” which pushed them out of the Benin kingdom. (This is most likely to be)

The third tradition is that the Urhobos migrated from Ile-Ife in Yorubaland. (This is not in any way correct. Benin is tied to Ilé-Ifẹ̀. It best supports the idea that we stemmed from Edo, but from Ilé-Ifẹ̀? I don't think so.)

The fourth is that the Urhobos migrated from
Sudan and Egypt. (This is already discussed extensively, all thanks for you. However, I don't think this is true in any way.)

Besides, night in Urhobo is ASO, and not ASUN.

JackBizzle:
Nonsense.

Many Nigerian tribes are as old as Egypt or even older.

All these nonsense history.

scionofurhobo:
The history of this people has been lost, hitherto, in the haze of time and certain events.

It is obvious that Urhobo – like most other aboriginal ethnic groups in Nigeria - was not created or born in Nigeria.

Ask many Urhobo sons and daughters today where they (Urhobo people) came from, their answer is: .Alka’ (‘Aka’). In a sense, they are right. But they do not know of Alka (Aka), their fore-father, who lived in Egypt, who was father to Urhobo, Benin, Igbo, Ika, Hausa, Yoruba, Izon and several others who now live in Nigeria.

The purpose of this post is to restore the - memory-cum-records – missing link in the history of the origin of Urhobo people and how and when they got to their present place in the area that is today called Nigeria.

Efewestern:


lolz.. fraternathy biko mo. your attention is highly needed.

Op thanks for mentioning me, but we have no connection what so ever with Egypt, or any middle east country.

we trace our origin to bini. shuo this is strange o.

fratermathy:




This thread is a kind of pseudo-history. The Op is not the first to venture into this waters. We have the likes of Dr. Charles Osume who wrote a book titled The Okpe People, as well as Bobson Gbinije, among others. Their argument is that Urhobos originate directly from Egypt. While the theory is plausible, it is inherently flawed because all Urhobo myths, legends and historians trace our origin to Aka (Benin) or Ife (in the case of some clans).

I only appreciate this thread because it foregrounded Urhobo people. However, everyone should be wary of its content and regard it as purely pseudo-history. Urhobos are from Udo in Ancient Benin and we arrived our current lands at different migratory waves. Some Urhobo clans came from Isoko and some Isoko clans came from Urhobo. That is the standard academic history of Urhobo people.

fratermathy:


Nothing is factual about this. It is simply the Op's interpretation of history. What is generally accepted by everyone is that Urhobos originated from Aka (Benin). Some clans like Okpe claim Ife (Yoruba) ancestry but nothing connects us to Egypt directly. What you see here is a case of "You see exactly what you want to see".

Konquest:

^^^^
^^^^
@fratermathy

Thanks for this info... "straight to the point and beautifully
worded." About the Okpe people/clan... did they directly come from
Ife or did they first settle in Benin before migrating to their current
location with their Urhobo kith-and-kin?

It is good to have people like you on NL who are helping to set
the historical records straight.

Efewestern:


According to Oral tradition, the Okpe's believed they migrated from ile-ife and passed through Benin, before reaching their present destination.

QuitNotice:
Hmmmmmmm, see deceit oo So Urhobo is now fada of all nations: fada to yoruba, hausa, ibo, and so on So Oduduwa that 'decended from the sky' is now Urhobo's son. By the way, this story is disjointed.

Please stop deceiving yourselves

JackBizzle:
Nonsense.

Many Nigerian tribes are as old as Egypt or even older.

All these nonsense history.