Well Said Perrito4u, I cant see the point in Satan asking Jesus to worship himself .  No recent replies to this I see? lol Unfortunately, the trinity is just another one of those pagan ideas hooked onto by Constantine way back in the 3rd Century. Jesus is the " Son of God" also the "Son of Man" who gained access to the "Ancient of Days",  The Creator Jehovah (Gods name in English) , 

Unfortunately the thread was hijacked by those who just have to try and prove a belief steeped in paganism from as far back as the time Egypt was a super power (Osiris, Isis, and Horus), was prevalent in Babylon (Nimrod, Semiramas, and Tammuz) and the Jewish Gnostics (Kether, Hokhmah, and Binah)

When discussing the truth, we always tend to get side- tracked into long laborious doctrinal disagreements, which  I will not get drawn into, so anyone replying to this, If I dont reply to some comment against this, please don’t think  I don’t have an answer or are copping out.

Funny, Jesus never said much at all about doctrines, from what I have read in the bible, be it hell fire, trinity, immortality, bla bla bla, and he never said that the truth was to be discerned by having the absolute knowledge of all things.

Jesus said that you would know his true followers by the love they have amongst themselves, Jehovah’s Witnesses strive to show this both individually and as an organisation, facing death rather than betraying their brothers to political factions or going to war.
Everlasting life comes from learning about God (YHWH) and the one he sent forth (Jesus). Most true Jehovah’s Witnesses are devoted to learning as much about god as they can.

Jesus asked us to “Make Disciples” To Go (doing word!) and make disciples, I think they get a tick for this one.
Jesus said many who claimed to perform powerful works in his name, faith healing, speaking in tongues, expelling demons etc would face the remark “get away from me you workers of lawlessness” , indicating that these things do not necessarily grant salvation. Rather the one doing the will of the father is the one that would be saved.  JW’s are doing god’s will, “preaching the good news of the kingdom, for a witness to all the nations”

The bible shows that Fornicators, Homosexuals, Liars, drunkards, and so on will not inherit gods kingdom, if they do not change their ways once they learn what god requires, many religions these days are very permissive of these things, whereas JW’s obey the bible requirement to “Quit mixing with such ones” if they do not repent of their wrong course. People look at it as a bad point because they “Shun People”. By doing this they are actually obeying God’s word, hating what is bad and not being a friend of the world, which is enmity with god. If someone realises there wrong course, they are more than welcome, or welcome back if they have gone for a walk down the broad and spacious road leading to destruction.

One thing that many JW bosoms harp on is that they have made a few errors in dates they thought certain things were supposed to happen. It is true. But this does not mean they are false prophets. A false prophet is someone who deliberately tells lies about the future. Being imperfect human beings, at times some of the founders of the religion took the command to “be on the watch therefore” a little too zealously, but at least they are on the watch, instead of asleep! I wonder if the Virgins in Jesus parable who kept their lamps burning and brought more oil than they thought they would need, heard footsteps a few times that were not there! 

Jehovah’s Witnesses used to smoke, celebrate Xmass, worship the cross, and many other things that they have “washed their robes white from” as they strive to learn more and refine their worship to align it with the truth form god’s word, and truly seem to be the ones talked about in the book of Matthew Chapter 24 that were the faithful slave, doing their best to do what is right despite the absence of their master, and now he has returned as prophesied in 1914, when the first sign Jesus gave of his presence (Nation will rise against nation and  Kingdom against kingdom) was lit up by the outbreak of the first world war, he has appointed that organisation over “all his belongings”

The bible in the book of Revelation urges Christians to get away from false religion. This is why JW’s reject and do not observe any observances or celebrations (Christmas, Easter, Halloween etc) that have many practices and/or dates in common with pagan festivals of times past. Failing to do this, like most of Christianity today, means you become part of false religion, and will “share in her plagues” (Rev Ch 17)


God says that in the time of the end he will bring out of all nations of the earth a “people for his name”, a name that the other religions of this world are striving to hide away, why you won’t even find it in most bibles these days, even where it does not make sense not to be there, and interesting, the pope gave a directive recently to his bishops not to use any form of the original name of god in worship!
So if you join the people who are people who are “for his name” maybe you will be finding the truth that sets man free.

There can be no doubt that the history of the JWs has come back to haunt them. Their failed prophecies, as well as their revised doctrines speak embarrassingly. No amount of field service can amend that. No amount of boasting about who is really witnessing can fix that. What we need is honesty rather than denial.

In spite of all that I admire them just the same. They are decent people who may be sincere. My only concern are their doctrines.

@poster: CAN U TELL ME IF THERE IS ANY RELIGIOUS GROUP IN HEAVEN, INFACT HOW CAN YOU CONCLUDE THAT JEHOVAH WITNESS IS THE TRUE RELIGION, TRUE RELIGION IS BASE ON INDIVIDUAL REMEMBER WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS THAT AS MANY AS RECEIVE HIM TO HIM HE GIVES THE RIGHT TO BE CALLED THE TRUE CHILDREN OF GOD. SO FOR U TO CONCLUDE IS AN UNDERSTATEMENT.

Bobbyaf:

There can be no doubt that the history of the JWs has come back to haunt them. Their failed prophecies, as well as their revised doctrines speak embarrassingly. No amount of field service can amend that. No amount of boasting about who is really witnessing can fix that. What we need is honesty rather than denial.

In spite of all that I admire them just the same. They are decent people who may be sincere. My only concern are their doctrines.

Jehovah's Witnesses did not write the Bible, but they have tried to understand it in depth, they spent time, money etc in doing this and they tried to adhere to what they have learnt. They never said whatever they say is inspired by God, but they believe in the inspired scriptures

Jehovah's witnesses have never prophesied at anytime, but they have tried to find the timing of some inspired prophesies, on some instances, they have been wrong, and there was never a denial, there are several of their publications dating back decades which have mentioned such things.

Even in the Bible some things were not fully understood by the prophets or the apostles until much later, Daniel wrote prophesies which he did not understand but the Angel told him he should still write, that later it would be understood by others at God's right time, the apostles did not understand what Jesus meant when he said, John would not die until the return of the son of man.

If you are talking about revised doctrines, when you are studying anything, you don't come to a full grasp of your study all at a time, things become clearer and clearer, as you know and learn more. That was the case in ancient Israel, God once allowed the Israelites to divorce their wives on almos t any ground, but Jesus came and put a stop to that, and said it is adultery if you divorce on anything other than infidelity. Also among the early Christians, Many issues causing dissensions among the early christians were referred to the older men in Jerusalem, who shed more lights on matters and sent letters to the congregations and these become part of the Christian doctrine we know today.

There is no religious organization, ancient or recent, who had all its tenets and beliefs, fixed and unchanged from inception.

@bobbyaf

I read your comment about Witnesses seeing their family members and not saying hello to them, That is absolutley not true.don't we say hello to people we don't even have filial relationship with. Whether your family member is of your religious disposition or not, you have a responsibility towards them as family members. The Bible says he who does not provide for his family member has disowned the faith, so even if your son refuses to follow your religious footsteps, you still have a responsibility to provide for him, but if the child is behaving totally irresponsibly, fighting, stealing and maybe a host of other crimes. Then you can choose to use any disciplinary action against him, which might include restricting funds from him, banning him from the house, or even not greeting him when you meet on the way.

So its not always the way you hear it.

JW have repeatedly denied the Divinity of Jesus Christ and His physical Resurrection. I almost joined the group, but I am glad that I didnt. Where is it in the Holy Bible that Jesus Christ came in 1914 as upheld by JW? Even when the Holy Bible has clearly stated that all eyes shall see Him on His second coming.

Exactly Ndipe

These people think we are idiots, or something of the sort. They start a few bible classes with the JWs, and become so brainwashed that they can come on a forum and talk crap, and begin to insult people's intelligence.

@ vocalist

It is true that just calling ones-self a Jehovah’s Witness or any other religion for that matter will not bring you salvation. I am sure that there are many JW's that are doing things wrong, we are all sinners, and that many people of other or no denominations are good people. However many scriptures allude to the fact that in the time of the end, god will organise a people to look after the earth after the destruction of the wicked at Armageddon as talked about in revelation.

Jesus parable about the wheat and the weeds pointed to this, that for a long time, gods followers, basically people who strive to do his will, would be mixed in amongst all religions, but it was not until the time of the end, the 'time of the harvest' that these ones would be identifiable from the false wheat or weeds and would be collected together. Surely this group would be ' united and in one line of thought' as the apostle Paul encouraged Christians to be.

This group would clean themselves of all pagan originating doctrines, traditions and practices thus getting out of Babylon the great (Read Revelation Ch 17,18) and the truth would get brighter all the way until the final day.

Jesus said 'you will know the truth and the truth will set you free', and yet people frown upon JW’s because they think they know the truth.
JW’s also cop a lot of flak for their un-permissive attitude towards the things Jesus and the apostles warned us would exclude people from the kingdom of the heavens, and this is even prophesied about gods true followers in 1 Pet 4:4-

3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do— living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.
4 They think it strange that you do not plunge with them into the same flood of dissipation, and they heap abuse on you.
5 But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.


And thank you for the insults billygaf you are really showing the attitude expected toward Gods people by your words in Matt Ch 5, 11-12


11Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Ndipe:

JW have repeatedly denied the Divinity of Jesus Christ and His physical Resurrection. I almost joined the group, but I am glad that I didnt. Where is it in the Holy Bible that Jesus Christ came in 1914 as upheld by JW? Even when the Holy Bible has clearly stated that all eyes shall see Him on His second coming.

what do you mean by they denied the divinity of Jesus Christ and his physical Resurrection? Can you tell us what they have said about it.
, About the second coming of Jesus,

(Revelation 1:7) 7 Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him. Yes, Amen.

This verse is in revelation which was given in signs and symbols, if we are to take it literally, those who pierced Jesus are already dead, how would they see him,

Also how can we explain the following verse,
John 14:19 : “A little longer and the world will behold me no more.”

This topic is still alive since 2006!

We need to be careful about what we say of others.

RWilliams:

Well Said Perrito4u, I cant see the point in Satan asking Jesus to worship himself  .  No recent replies to this I see? lol Unfortunately, the trinity is just another one of those pagan ideas hooked onto by Constantine way back in the 3rd Century. Jesus is the " Son of God" also the "Son of Man" who gained access to the "Ancient of Days",  The Creator Jehovah (Gods name in English) , 

Unfortunately the thread was hijacked by those who just have to try and prove a belief steeped in paganism from as far back as the time Egypt was a super power (Osiris, Isis, and Horus), was prevalent in Babylon (Nimrod, Semiramas, and Tammuz) and the Jewish Gnostics (Kether, Hokhmah, and Binah)

When discussing the truth, we always tend to get side- tracked into long laborious doctrinal disagreements, which  I will not get drawn into, so anyone replying to this, If I dont reply to some comment against this, please don’t think  I don’t have an answer or are copping out.

I, on my part, will not be surprised if you don’t reply me, since JWs tend to wax eloquent when demolishing stuff like Trinity (which is not rooted in the Bible) but when some unrehearsed real issues are raised, they cop out, labelling the other person as an “opposer” cast in the mould of the Pharisees. Anyway, if you want PROOF of anything I say here, just ask and I will supply them in lorry loads.

Some will say the JWs are the ones always peddling “long laborious doctrinal disagreements”. How, for instance, do you explain someone insisting Jesus was killed on a tree rather than a cross? Such a minor thing!

RWilliams:
Funny, Jesus never said much at all about doctrines, from what I have read in the bible, be it hell fire, trinity, immortality, bla bla bla, and he never said that the truth was to be discerned by having the absolute knowledge of all things.

Coming from a JW…

RWilliams:
Jesus said that you would know his true followers by the love they have amongst themselves, Jehovah’s Witnesses strive to show this both individually and as an organisation, facing death rather than betraying their brothers to political factions or going to war.
Everlasting life comes from learning about God (YHWH) and the one he sent forth (Jesus). Most true Jehovah’s Witnesses are devoted to learning as much about god as they can.

It is true Witnesses refuse to kill their neighbours in war, which is commendable. Many of them have also refused to betray their brothers. But, you see, it doesn’t end there. For one thing, fighting in war is not always a bad thing. In fact, it is sometimes the right thing to do. I, for instance, am totally against violence. But I do recognise, like the non-violent George Orwell also did, that the reason I sleep peacefully on my bed at night is because someone stands outside ready to do violence on my behalf. Do you know what would have happened if brave men and women had not offered up their lives to stop the Third Reich? Hitler would have taken over the world (God forbid!) and (1) all the Jews and Slavs in the world would have been exterminated (2) All the blacks in the world would have been sent to labour camps (3) All homosexuals, the mentally ill and other “impurities” would have been exterminated (4) All the JWs in the world would have been sent to labour camps.

But the above would mean nothing to you. You believe it was Jehovah who stopped the Third Reich so your preaching work can continue, not the people of the world led by the UK, the US and Russia. It appears you Witnesses live in a world of your own, following your perverse interpretation of “you are no part of the world.” Which is why a Witness almost invariably manifests a childlike refusal to deal appropriately with the complexities of the world around him. Pain, disease and misgovernance are of Satan’s world – no need to do anything since Armageddon, which is around the corner, will end it all. So everybody, forward march to Armageddon! A Witness will never speak out against injustice except when it is directly targeted at his preaching work. But you know the result of this, friend? Injustice within your Organisation is also not dealt with!

On the matter of love, it is not only Witnesses that show love. In fact, they are behind some religious groups I know in the matter of love. I will not go into details about that but if you want to explore that subject further, let me know.

RWilliams:
Jesus asked us to “Make Disciples” To Go (doing word!) and make disciples, I think they get a tick for this one.
Jesus said many who claimed to perform powerful works in his name, faith healing, speaking in tongues, expelling demons etc would face the remark “get away from me you workers of lawlessness” , indicating that these things do not necessarily grant salvation. Rather the one doing the will of the father is the one that would be saved.  JW’s are doing god’s will, “preaching the good news of the kingdom, for a witness to all the nations”

This is another blunder you Witnesses make. Your assumption is based primarily on your door-to-door activity. Think: does the use of this specific preaching method prove that this is the only true Christian organization, while other groups who use other methods to reach people with their message are not Christians? Are they less effective than the Witnesses? And do you know there is no evidence that the first century Christians used this preaching method?

The hard facts available (ask me, and I will supply them) is that quite a number of Christian groups are growing in number, many of them even much faster than Jehovah's Witnesses. It is your Watchtower publications that are giving you the FALSE impression that other Christian denominations and sects are declining in numbers, that the "waters" of "Babylon the Great" is "drying up." (Rev. 16:12 and 17:15) Nothing could be falser.
It is true that the majority of the Christian denominations have been declining in the Western countries, but this also holds true in the case of Jehovah's Witnesses in that part of the world. However, due to developments in certain parts of the world, there has been a tremendous increase of Christians in the world as a whole since the century that ended a decade ago. Again, this applies to the JW as well.

RWilliams:
The bible shows that Fornicators, Homosexuals, Liars, drunkards, and so on will not inherit gods kingdom, if they do not change their ways once they learn what god requires, many religions these days are very permissive of these things, whereas JW’s obey the bible requirement to “Quit mixing with such ones” if they do not repent of their wrong course. People look at it as a bad point because they “Shun People”. By doing this they are actually obeying God’s word, hating what is bad and not being a friend of the world, which is enmity with god. If someone realises there wrong course, they are more than welcome, or welcome back if they have gone for a walk down the broad and spacious road leading to destruction.

Having devoted a good deal of my time to studying the religions, I am aware of several churches that sanction erring members. Some methods are bizarre, others are humane and reflect the kind of love Christ taught. Shunning, the method used by the Witnesses is the harshest I have come across. It lacks human face and it saddens me that human beings who claim to represent God conceived it. (I took some time to study the life and times of the particular WT President who invented it and wasn’t surprised at all.) And I will not let you put a gloss on it here, so I will attempt to present it the way it really works. For I heard of a man who committed suicide after he was disfellowshipped and made to face shunning for smoking. And many have spoken of being denied love by family members. Meanwhile, these policies are not applied consistently, but that is a different matter. I will have your readers know that it is not only those who involve themselves in fornication and co that face this treatment, as you will have them believe here. Questioning the teachings of the Watchtower Society, for instance, is a no-no that will see you being accused of apostatising and lead to shunning. Please permit me to ask you a question: when you go preaching from house to house, do you tell potential recruits, and newer ones in your midst, that once recruited they can’t leave the Organisation? Ok, let me modify that – actually they can leave. But do you tell them that that means that if their kids are Witnesses they will be shunned by such kids and denied their natural right to filial love? Do new recruits know that anyone who leaves the Organisation will be seen by Witnesses, including his former friends, as worse than the most despicable dog?

RWilliams:
One thing that many JW bosoms harp on is that they have made a few errors in dates they thought certain things were supposed to happen. It is true. But this does not mean they are false prophets.

I think it does mean that they are false prophets.

RWilliams:
A false prophet is someone who deliberately tells lies about the future.

Add And someone who says what God did not send him to say in the name of God. Jer 23:21 says: “I did not send the prophets, yet they themselves ran. I did not speak to them, yet they themselves prophesied.

This is the old masthead of Awake!:
"Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away."
The Awake! masthead now reads:
"Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things."

Creator’s promise? 1914? Now, honestly, do you still think you are not false prophets?

RWilliams:
Being imperfect human beings, at times some of the founders of the religion took the command to “be on the watch therefore” a little too zealously, but at least they are on the watch, instead of asleep! I wonder if the Virgins in Jesus parable who kept their lamps burning and brought more oil than they thought they would need, heard footsteps a few times that were not there!

With respect, sir, the above is scurrilous nonsense! None of the virgins stood up and declared that the Master had come as your Organisation has done since it was founded. In fact, your Organisation was founded because the world was to end in 1914. Most of you don’t even know this. I borrowed your WT Library from a friend and installed it on my PC. I note that publications before 1950 are not there, so most of you are blissfully ignorant of a lot of things concerning Watchtower Jehovism. Even offensive articles after 1950 are removed from this “comprehensive” Library. If Watchtower were a state, it would be twice as closed as North Korea and ten times as secretive.

RWilliams:
Jehovah’s Witnesses used to smoke, celebrate Xmass, worship the cross, and many other things that they have “washed their robes white from” as they strive to learn more and refine their worship to align it with the truth form god’s word, and truly seem to be the ones talked about in the book of Matthew Chapter 24 that were the faithful slave, doing their best to do what is right despite the absence of their master, and now he has returned as prophesied in 1914, when the first sign Jesus gave of his presence (Nation will rise against nation and  Kingdom against kingdom) was lit up by the outbreak of the first world war, he has appointed that organisation over “all his belongings”

Are you seriously saying that nations did not rise against nations until 1914? I don’t think even you will dare say that. Is there a biblical basis for associating anything with this date, then, or do you just believe it because someone told you it is so?

RWilliams:
The bible in the book of Revelation urges Christians to get away from false religion. This is why JW’s reject and do not observe any observances or celebrations (Christmas, Easter, Halloween etc) that have many practices and/or dates in common with pagan festivals of times past. Failing to do this, like most of Christianity today, means you become part of false religion, and will “share in her plagues” (Rev Ch 17)

Are you really separate from what you call “false religion”? Are you aware of your Organisation’s alliance with a prominent church ministry a few years ago? Do also know your Organisations’ alliance with political powers? Perhaps it is okay by you for the leadership of your religion to preach water and drink wine? (I am deliberately being vague because I doubt you are able to handle these matters. I know that for someone who is smart, hints are all required. On the other hand, if someone is not smart, anything you tell them, plain or vague, is useless. Whatever you choose to believe in is your business, but seeing your eloquence and how it might inveigle meek children of God who may have been misguided into believing that the truth about God is found in one single place and are honestly searching for it on this forum, I am typing to present some of the facts as they are. You are welcome to counter them. The Witnesses are good, very good. Which is not surprising considering all those practice and rehearsals at your meetings, where presentation, dialogue, logic, and refutation are drilled into the preacher (called "publisher" for use in the field. Put a trained anybody against a novice in any field, and the result of foreknown. That, and not any “truth”, is why your field workers often seem able to demolish any arguments put forth by people of other Christian denominations. I would hope you drop your JW goggles while reading what I am writing, but of course, that is too much to hope for whenever one is dealing with anyone high on the narcotic called religion.)

RWilliams:
God says that in the time of the end he will bring out of all nations of the earth a “people for his name”, a name that the other religions of this world are striving to hide away, why you won’t even find it in most bibles these days, even where it does not make sense not to be there, and interesting, the pope gave a directive recently to his bishops not to use any form of the original name of god in worship!
So if you join the people who are people who are “for his name” maybe you will be finding the truth that sets man free.

Can't say much on this now, except that being the best organised religious group on earth (which you are) does not remotely mean being the uniquely "true religion". Your "unity" comes at a great prize - if I lay them bare here, I am sure most reasonable people would want nothing to do with your kind of "unity" which is really uniformity. There is evidence that the chaos you see in Christendom today was there in the first century. Bickering is normal among humans.

rabzy:

Jehovah's Witnesses did not write the Bible, but they have tried to understand it in depth, they spent time, money etc in doing this and they tried to adhere to what they have learnt. They never said whatever they say is inspired by God, but they believe in the inspired scriptures

Jehovah's witnesses have never prophesied at anytime,

You are plain wrong. Well, maybe not. Jehovah’s Witnesses have claimed to be prophets. Well… sometimes not. Watchtower has a problem with consistency. Let me quote directly from what your publications have said on this matter and leave you make any sense out of it.

Are Jehovah’s Witnesses Prophets?

[b]Yes: "Jehovah God has made known to his anointed ones in advance what these scriptures mean." (WT 31 6/1 p 160)

No: "Jehovah’s people confess no powers of inspiration today" (WT 52 4/15 p253)

Yes: "Through this agency he is having carried out prophesying on an unprecedented and unparalled scale." (WT 64 6/15)

No: "No, the ‘Watchtower’ is no inspired prophet, but it follows and explains a book of prophecy the predictions in which have proved to be unerring and unfailing until now." (WT 69 1/1 p2)

Yes: "Jehovah has raised up a genuine prophet in our generation. Regardless of how Christendom views or regards this group of anointed witnesses of Jehovah, the time must come, and that shortly, when those making up Christendom, will know that really a ‘prophet’ of Jehovah was among them. (The Nations Shall Know, 1971).

No: "They do not claim infalibility or perfection. Neither are they inspired prophets." (WT 5/15/76 p297)

Yes: "The facts substantiate that the remnant of Christ’s anointed disciples have been doing that prophesying to all the nations for a witness in favor of God’s kingdom." (Holy Spirit - The Force Behind the Coming New Order, 1976, p 148)

No: "In this regard, however, it must be observed, that the ‘faithful and discrete slave’ was never inspired, never perfect." (WT 3/1/79 p23-4)

Yes: "In behalf of such individuals who at heart seek God’s rule instead of man’s rule, the ‘prophet’ whom Jehovah has raised up has been, not an individual man as in the case of Jeremiah, but a class. The members of this class are, like the prophet-priest Jeremiah, wholly dedicated to Jehovah God through Christ, and by the begettal of Jehovah’s holy spirit they have been made part of a ‘chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession'." (WT 10/1/82 p27)

No: "Jehovah’s Witnesses do not claim to be inspired prophets." (Reasoning, 1985, p136)

Yes: "God has a people on earth, all of whom are prophets, or witnesses for God, Jehovah’s Witnesses." (AW 6/8/86 p9)

No: "Never in these instances, however, did they presume or originate predictions ‘in the name of Jehovah’. Never did they say ‘These are the words of Jehovah’." (AW 3/22/93)[/b]

rabzy:
but they have tried to find the timing of some inspired prophesies, on some instances, they have been wrong,

I think they have been wrong ALL the time. Prove me wrong. I would say that if the JWs have any truth, it is a transient brand of truth.

rabzy:
and there was never a denial,

This is not true. On the contrary, the Watchtower Society has never expressly admitted any of its countless errors. What it does is talk about a few harmless matters – like stating in your Proclaimers’ book (much of which I have read) that in the old days elders used to be elected and Christmas used to be celebrated at Bethel.

Now, does this sound like an admission of error, or even the possibility of it, to you?
W84 2/1 p. 29:
“Meditation can help you through tests of your faith. For example, occasionally there are changes in our understanding of certain Bible passages or prophecies. ‘The path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established,’ says the Bible at Proverbs 4:18. Some, however, are disturbed by these refinements. But the ‘righteous ones’ take the time to meditate and absorb these new Biblical truths, instead of hastily concluding that the `faithful slave' has erred.”
So, my friend, the “faithful slave”, officially, does not err!

Let us look at just one example: the Watchtower Movement’s prediction that the world would end in 1975…

In the sixties, the JW came out with publications pointing to 1975 as the likely end of the world. There is a copious amount of text affirming this. But let me cite this one which appears in w68 8/15, in which a group of men calling themselves “the faithful slave” actually cautioned those who would give more importance to Jesus’ words than their own! Read this:
“This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that ‘concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heaven nor the Son, but only the Father.’ (Matt 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the ‘day and hour’!”

Following this series of publications pointing to 1975 as the likely end of the world, a lot of JWs started selling their properties and dumping their secular vocations to take up full time preaching. In a faming community I once lived there were folk who ate their seed yams, there being no need to plant a farm. More tragically elsewhere, there were Witnesses who put off surgeries! When reports of these madness reached the JW leadership did they step in to stop them? You bet not! Instead, it wrote this in the May 1974 Kingdom Ministry:
“Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end.”
Today, does the leadership admit it was to blame for any for this? No. It blames the rank and file for being overzealous in interpreting its text. As far as it is concerned, it made no error, the rank and file did.

rabzy:
there are several of their publications dating back decades which have mentioned such things.

What the publications always do is whitewash the facts. Blame it on the recruits instead of on the leadership.

rabzy:
Even in the Bible some things were not fully understood by the prophets or the apostles until much later, Daniel wrote prophesies which he did not understand but the Angel told him he should still write, that later it would be understood by others at God's right time, the apostles did not understand what Jesus meant when he said, John would not die until the return of the son of man.

I wish the Watchtower Society, which calls itself “the faithful slave” would adopt the attitude of Daniel and the apostles, instead of ridiculing themselves and insulting everyone’s intelligence with its curious and endless theories and speculations, along with calculations, chronologies and predictions.

rabzy:
If you are talking about revised doctrines, when you are studying anything, you don't come to a full grasp of your study all at a time, things become clearer and clearer, as you know and learn more. That was the case in ancient Israel, God once allowed the Israelites to divorce their wives on almost any ground, but Jesus came and put a stop to that, and said it is adultery if you divorce on anything other than infidelity. Also among the early Christians, Many issues causing dissensions among the early christians were referred to the older men in Jerusalem, who shed more lights on matters and sent letters to the congregations and these become part of the Christian doctrine we know today.

Yes. But God never deceived the prophets in the Bible in this manner. This is what Proverbs 4:18, NWT says: ‘The path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established.”

Without any ambiguity, this scripture implies an incremental revelation of light, a progression, a path that increases in clarity. It does not talk of a light that brightens, then dims, then again brightens, and then again dims.

Here are samples of what we get with the Watchtower Society:

Are blood fractions allowed?
• No – AW56 09/08 p20
• Yes – w58 09/15 p575
• No – w61 09/15 p557
• Yes – w61 11/01 p670
• No – w63 02/15 p123-4
• Yes – AW65 08/22 p18

Proverbs 4:8 tells people to expect knowledge and understanding of scripture that keep expanding, not understanding that swings back and forth like a pendulum, from “old light” to “new light” back to “old light”. There are no biblical examples of God confusing people in this manner. Noah, Abraham, Moses and the others all seemed to understand Him. For all their human mistakes, according to the Bible, they relayed God’s word correctly. Does God change his mind? Is he a God of disorder or of peace? Who is responsible for those who die as a result of Watchtower’s changing policies? I am thinking of the time your Society used to ban vaccines and organ transplants, presenting these as the latest light from God through His “faithful slave”? When the Bible is not explicit on something, is it humility or presumptuousness for a dozen or so men in Brooklyn, NY, who have told themselves that they are God's sole channel, to issue their personal interpretations regarding matters that run from petty little details to predictions to matters of life and death?

rabzy:
There is no religious organization, ancient or recent, who had all its tenets and beliefs, fixed and unchanged from inception.

Yes. The Catholic Church admits its errors (well, I am still waiting for Pope Ratzinger to admit his personal failings and resign) and has issued apologies from time to time. The leadership of the JW is too arrogant to do this.

RWilliams:

@ vocalist

It is true that just calling ones-self a Jehovah’s Witness or any other religion for that matter will not  bring you salvation. I am sure that there are many JW's that are doing things wrong, we are all sinners, and that many people of other or no denominations are good people. However many scriptures allude to the fact that in the time of the end, god will organise a people to look after the earth after the destruction of the wicked at Armageddon as talked about in revelation.

Jesus parable about the wheat and the weeds pointed to this, that for a long time, gods followers, basically people who strive to do his will, would be mixed in amongst all religions, but it was not until the time of the end, the 'time of the harvest' that these ones would be identifiable from the false wheat or weeds and would be collected together. Surely this group would be ' united and in one line of thought' as the apostle Paul encouraged Christians to be.

You are clearly interpreting a scripture wrongly here. In fact, I am not sure where you got your interpretation from since the leadership of your religion has stopped putting it like this after doing so for over 70 years.
Here is Matthew 13:24-31, NLT:
24 Here is another story Jesus told: “The Kingdom of Heaven is like a farmer who planted good seed in his field. 25 But that night as everyone slept, his enemy came and planted weeds among the wheat. 26 When the crop began to grow and produce grain, the weeds also grew. 27 The farmer’s servants came and told him, ‘Sir, the field where you planted that good seed is full of weeds!’ 28 “ ‘An enemy has done it!’ the farmer exclaimed. “ ‘Shall we pull out the weeds?’ they asked. 29 “He replied, ‘No, you’ll hurt the wheat if you do. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. Then I will tell the harvesters to sort out the weeds and burn them and to put the wheat in the barn.’ ”

The Master would not allow his servants to collect the weeds, because "while collecting the weeds, you uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest." (Verses 29, 30, NWT)

When is the separation done? Let’s read verses 37-43, NLT:
37 “All right,” he said. “I, the Son of Man, am the farmer who plants the good seed. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed represents the people of the Kingdom. The weeds are the people who belong to the evil one. 39 The enemy who planted the weeds among the wheat is the Devil. The harvest is the end of the world, and the harvesters are the angels. 40 “Just as the weeds are separated out and burned, so it will be at the end of the world. 41 I, the Son of Man, will send my angels, and they will remove from my Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil, 42 and they will throw them into the furnace and burn them. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the godly will shine like the sun in their Father’s Kingdom. Anyone who is willing to hear should listen and understand!

[b]Clearly, it was at the "harvest" (= at the "end of the world", verse 39) that the angels--not Christ's servants or followers--would remove the "weeds" from "the kingdom" (= the world) and gather "the wheat" into Christ's "barn." (Verses 40-43, 30)
[/b]This clearly shows that the good and bad people are together – in all worldviews. God, not any self-proclaimed “true religion”, would do the separation, Himself.

RWilliams:
This group would clean themselves of all pagan originating doctrines, traditions and practices thus getting out of Babylon the great (Read Revelation Ch 17,18) and the truth would get brighter all the way until the final day.

Jesus said 'you will know the truth and the truth will set you free', and yet people frown upon JW’s because they think they know the truth.
JW’s also cop a lot of flak for their un-permissive attitude towards the things Jesus and the apostles warned us would exclude people from the kingdom of the heavens, and this is even prophesied about gods true followers in 1 Pet 4:4-

3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do— living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, sin assemblies, carousing and detestable idolatry.
   4 They think it strange that you do not plunge with them into the same flood of dissipation, and they heap abuse on you.
   5 But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
   6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.


And thank you for the insults billygaf you are really showing the attitude expected toward Gods people by your words in Matt Ch 5, 11-12

11Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
   12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Yeah. This is the problem. “Come out and be separate.” “People talk bad of us because we are the true followers of Jesus”. So on and so forth. These are the irresistible staples new recruits are fed. It is all based on a misconception, of course. The JW publications never carry stories of people of other religions who face persecution. But it is a highly effective method, as it creates in the individual that feel good thing about knowing you have something others richer and more famous than you don't.

Thank you Myjoe for the truthful and undeniable rejoinders. These present day JWs are clueless to their past. I have repeatedly said on more than one fora that the JWs have changed over 200 doctrines. Its been a known fact that their failed prophecies have come to haunt them which have led to the changed doctrines mentioned above. Most of their literature have been removed and have not been republished, for fear that the present teachings may seem too different.

^^^ MyJoe, so you ate your seed yams! LOL. The JW seem to back up everything they say with the Bible, though.

I read your comment about Witnesses seeing their family members and not saying hello to them, That is absolutley not true.don't we say hello to people we don't even have filial relationship with. Whether your family member is of your religious disposition or not, you have a responsibility towards them as family members. The Bible says he who does not provide for his family member has disowned the faith, so even if your son refuses to follow your religious footsteps, you still have a responsibility to provide for him, but if the child is behaving totally irresponsibly, fighting, stealing and maybe a host of other crimes. Then you can choose to use any disciplinary action against him, which might include restricting funds from him, banning him from the house, or even not greeting him when you meet on the way.

So its not always the way you hear it.

You're in a dream world. You need to awake out of sleep.

Googler:

^^^ MyJoe, so you ate your seed yams! LOL. The JW seem to back up everything they say with the Bible, though.

^^^ Shut up. I wasn’t reporting about myself when I talked of the seed yam business.

The Jehovists sure do Bible. But that, on its own, does not tell us anything, except that there is good practice. The Bible can be used to support almost anything. There is a guy around here called Joagbaje who backs up anything he says with copious amounts of scripture text, yet most of the Christians here don’t share his views. And when they quote scriptures which counter his ideologies he promptly dismisses the verse and its author. Don’t think I am anti-JW. I am not. There are some things to like about them. The way church services are conducted by black people, for instance, the only churches where one I can feel a measure of comfort around here are Catholic and JW services. If I am unfortunate enough to be at a Pentecostal or Anglican service, the emphasis on high decibel, to say nothing of the countless kneeling downs and standing ups, which rule there, always leave me gasping and praying God for the thing to end so I can make good my escape.

But there are other issues. The issues with the JW are so far reaching, and the history and theology reek of such deceit, that I think it would be fair if people knew before they join. But what you find is that the history of the organization is hidden from you and you are told that anyone who opposes you do so in fulfillment of Jesus’ prophesy. My JW former roommate once told me what really convinced him it is the truth is because they are often spoken against! Now, that is classic – “I suffered for it, so it must be right”. It is a bait that once you bite, stops oxygen from flowing to that part of your brain that “puts two and two together”.

I have challenged anyone here show a single prediction the JW made that came to pass, and to answer the other assertions I made above. But you can be sure no one will respond – the Witnesses can’t handle this sort of conversation because (1) It can create such a cognitive dissonance on long-held beliefs, beliefs equated with God himself, something a JW cannot contemplate due to the effective psychological methods used in impregnating him with the idea that the Organisation has already been chosen by God (2) Unlike the Trinity or Christmas, these issues have not been subjected to constant practice and rehearsals at the meetings.

Bobbyaf:

You're in a dream world. You need to awake out of sleep.

You dont know me Bobbyaf.

I have been a witness for 19 years and i am telling you that most of these things are not the way you guys are presenting.

This last easter holiday, my family went to visit my Uncle and when we got there we met my other uncles and aunts who had also come visiting, it was a great family reunion, and my family is the only ones who are witnesses in the whole of my extended family.

My granny who lives with is 88 years old, she has suffered a stroke and uses a catheter to pass urine, she is not a witness in fact she dislikes witnesses (she believes we don't bury our dead), she presently lives with us because apparently we were the only ones who could create time and the patience to take care of her in the whole of my extended family, every other person takes her for a few weeks and declines to do any further.

And i know a number of witnesses who have been disfellowshipped and the picture is not the way you painted it. My father-in-law who was an elder was disfellowshipped for many years, but all my wife's sisters and her mother still performs their duties to him. The only difference is that he is no longer their spiritual head, he is still the head of the family as far as other things are concern except for spiritual matters, such as prayers and conducting Family Bible studies.

I visit them a lot and myself and my father-in-law still discuss and we often go out to have a couple of drinks together, when he comes to my place i treat him as a honored guest, like a father. But our spiritual ties have been severed. Elders in his Congregation still visit him to help get back his spiritual footing.

His Business associates who are witnesses still do business with him and conduct their businesses in a formal manner, limiting it strictly to business. Others who has no such dealings with him, who only know him thru the congregation, would not associate with him no more, because he is no longer their christian brother, they won't say a greeting to him because the Bible commanded it. Since they don't have other ties to him other than spiritual ties, then it is secered until he becomes amenable to christian laws.

So if you really want to know about these things ask mature JWs in your neighborhood and stop telling people who are awake to wake up.

And realizing that this link has been on for 4 years makes me less inclined to comment.

ok oo.
all of you that are talking bad about the witnesses should do yourseves just one favour.listen to what they have to tell you and counter it with the bible and see if you can find any fault with them.u cant say wat they tell you is not in the bible cos they dont just tell you they show you from the bible.so try and open your eyes.

luv,
small man.

Questions that Jehovah's Witnesses do not like to be asked.
1. If the organization did not actually prophesy the end in 1925 and 1975, then how come so many Witnesses left the faith immediately afterwards? ("They lost roughly three-quarters of the movement between 1925 and 1928, then suffered huge losses after 1975, when the end didn't come as they had implied over and over again," said Jim Penton, an ex-Witness who writes entries on Jehovah's Witnesses for the Encyclopedia Americana.)
2. If the Watchtower organization rejects others calling them "inspired" yet the Watchtower organization does call themselves "God's Spirit-directed Prophet" what is the difference? Is there such a thing as an "uninspired prophet"? See Organization claims inspiration
3. Has the Society ever taught anything scripturally incorrect? See Prophecy Blunders of the Organization
4. Might the Society be teaching anything scripturally incorrect now?
5. Since the Organization has received "new light" regarding the 1914 generation, and completely changed their view on this, does this mean that all the former Jehovah's witnesses who were disfellowshipped years ago for the same view the organization is now teaching will automatically be accepted into fellowship again? Were these Ex-Jw's in fact disfellowshipped for truth and knew things that the governing body did not? See Jw's were disfellowshipped for rejecting generation doctrine
6. Can Jehovah's Witnesses hold and discuss openly with other Jehovah's Witnesses opinions that differ from orthodox Watch Tower doctrine?
7. Can individuals read & understand the Bible alone, or do they need an organization and it's publications to do so? Click here find the answer!
8. How do you prove from the Bible that 1935 was the year for the selection to heaven stopped due to being filled? What is the difference between a Catholic appealing to "what the organization tells him" about December 25 being the date of Jesus’ birthday and a Jw’ appealing to "what the organization tells him" about the date 1935? Is it not hypocritical when you chide the "poor deluded Catholic" that his faith cannot find a Bible passage to support it, when the same goes for you and 1935?
9. How do you know that there were any vacancies, if any, in the 144,000 class if Jesus offered this to first century Christians? How can the organization know the exact number of vacancies today without any records from the first century?
10. Why are you called, "Jehovah's Witnesses" and not "Christians"? Since Jehovah's Witnesses appeal to Isa 43:12; 44:8 for scriptural support that they should be called, "Jehovah's Witnesses" then what was the "new name" prophesied in Isa 62:2? Can't be "Jehovah's Witnesses", for God already used it 20 chapters earlier. Could the new name be "Christian" after our savior "Christ"?
11. Why would the name God gave to His people not be "Christians" since Acts 11:26 says, "The disciples were first called Christians in Antioch"? Why is the name "Jehovah's Witness" found nowhere in the New Testament, if that is God's divine name for His people under the new covenant? Why would God wait almost 2000 years to suddenly start using the name "Jehovah's Witness". Does this mean that first century Christians were not known as Jehovah's Witnesses"?
12. If the name Jehovah is so important, then why is it never used in the entire Greek New Testament? If men edited out the name of God, "YHWH" when they copied the New Testament, as only the Watchtower organization claims, then how can we have any confidence in any of the New Testament? Should we discard the New Testament or the Watchtower organization as unreliable?
13. If the name "Jehovah" is so important, then why does Acts 4:12 say, "There is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name [v10 Jesus Christ] under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved"? Would this not have been the logical place for God to have used the name "YHWH"?
14. What is the correct spelling of God's proper name "Yahweh" or "Jehovah"? If Jehovah's Witnesses maintain that "Yahweh" is more proper, why do they misspell it "Jehovah"? If the name of God is so important, then should you not only pronounce it correctly, but spell it correctly too? Is not spelling more important than pronunciation?
15. Since the Jehovah's Witness organization currently rejects most of the teachings of its founder Charles Taze Russell (who was president of the organization from 1879-1916), and since they also reject "Judge" Joseph Franklin Rutherford, who succeeded Russell as president from 1916 - 1942, how can we be sure that in 25 more years, Jehovah's Witnesses won't also reject the current president, Milton G. Henschel (1992 - present), as they did Russell and Rutherford?
16. What kind of confidence can anyone have in an organization that rejected its founder and first two presidents for the first 63 years of its existence? This represents about 53% of the time they have existed!
17. Since the Watchtower organization claims "apostolic succession" who was it that "passed the torch of God's Spirit" to C. T. Russel when he founded the organization? What was the name of this individual?
18. In the NWT, every time the Greek word "proskuneo" is used in reference to God, it is translated as "worship" (Rev 5:14, 7:11, 11:16, 19:4, Jn 4:20, etc.). Every time "proskuneo" is used in reference to Jesus, it is translated as "obeisance" (Mt 14:33, 28:9, 28:17, Lk 24:52, Heb 1:6, etc.), even though it is the same word in the Greek (see Gr-Engl Interlinear). Especially compare the Greek word "prosekunhsan" used with reference to God in Rev 5:14, 7:11, 11:16, and 19:4 and used with reference to Christ in Mt 14:33, 28:9, and 28:17. What is the reason for this inconsistency? If the NWT was consistent in translating "proskuneo" as "worship", how would the verses above referring to Christ read?
19. The NWT translates the Greek word "kyrios" as "Jehovah" more than 25 times in the New Testament (Mt 3:3, Lk 2:9, Jn 1:23, Acts 21:14, Rom 12:19, Col 1:10, 1Thess 5:2, 1Pet 1:25, Rev 4:8, etc.). Why is the word "Jehovah" translated when it does not appear in the Greek text? Why is the NWT not consistent in translating kyrios (kurion) as "Jehovah" in Rom 10:9, 1Cor 12:3, Phil 2:11, 2Thess 2:1, and Rev 22:21 (see Gr-Engl Interlinear)?
20. To what was Jesus referring to by the term "this temple" in Jn 2:18- 19? See Jn 2:21.
21. If the Holy Spirit is God's impersonal active force, why does he directly speak and refer to himself as "I" and "me" in Acts 13:2?
22. The NWT translates the Greek words "ego eimi" as "I am" every time it appears (Jn 6:34, 6:41, 8:24, 13:19, 15:5, etc.), except in Jn 8:58 where it is translated as "I have been". What is the reason for the inconsistency in this translation? If "ego eimi" was translated in Jn 8:58 the same way it is translated in every other verse in which it appears, how would Jn 8:58 read?
23. In Rev 22:12-13, Jesus Christ, the one who is "coming quickly", says of himself, " I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end". In Rev 1:17-18, Jesus, the one who "became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever", refers to himself as the first and the last. Rev 21:6, in speaking of God, says, ", I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end , ". God is also referred to as the "first" and the "last" in Isa 44:6 and Isa 48:12. How can this be since by definition of these words there can only be one first and one last?
24. Jn 1:3 says that Jesus created "all things", but in Isa 44:24, God says that he "by myself" created the heavens and the earth and asks the question "Who was with me?" when the heavens and the earth were created. How can this be since if Jesus was created by God, then he would have been with God when everything else was created?
25. Col 1:16, in talking about Jesus, says that ", All [other] things have been created through him and FOR HIM". If Jesus was Michael the Archangel at the time of creation, would an angel have created all things for himself? Isa 43:7 says God created "everyone , for my OWN glory, ".
26. The Watchtower Society teaches that the 144,000 of Rev 7:4 is to be taken literally. If chapter 7 of Revelation is to be taken literally, where then does the Bible say that the 144,000 will come from? (See Rev 7:5- .
27. If the soul is the body, why does Jesus make a distinction between the body and the soul in Mt 10:28?
28. The NWT translates Jn 1:1 as ", and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was a god". How can the Word (Jesus) be "a god" if God says in Deut 32:39, "See now that I-I am he, and there are NO gods together WITH me , "?
29. Jesus Christ is referred to as "Mighty God" in Isa 9:6 ("For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us , And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God , ". Jehovah is referred to as "Mighty God" in Isa 10:20-21. How can this be if there is only one God (1Cor 8:4, Isa 43:10, 44:6)?
30. If Jesus was executed on a torture stake, with both hands together over his head, why does Jn 20:25 say ", Unless I see in his hands the print of the nailS , ", indicating that there was more than one nail used for his hands?
31. Jesus uses the phrase "Truly I say to you, , " over 50 times in the Bible. In the NWT, the comma is placed after the word "you" every time except in Lk 23:43, where the comma is placed after the word "today". Why is the comma placed after "today" instead of after "you" in this verse? If the translation of this phrase in Lk 23:43 was consistent with the translation of this phrase in all the other verses in which it appears (see concordance), and the comma was placed after the word "you", how would it read?
32. The NWT translates the Greek word "esti" as "is" in almost every instance in the New Testament (Mt 26:18, 38, Mk 14:44, Lk 22:38, etc.). See Greek-English Interlinear. Why does the NWT translate this Greek word as "means" in Mt 26:26-28, Mk 14:22-24, and Lk 22:19? Why the inconsistency in the translation of the word "esti"? If the NWT was consistent and translated the Greek word "esti" as "is" in these verses, what would these verses say?
33. In Jn 20:28, Thomas refers to Jesus in Greek as "Ho kyrios moy kai ho theos moy". This translates literally as "the Lord of me and THE God of me". Why does Jesus, in Jn 20:29, affirm Thomas for having come to this realization? If Jesus really wasn't the Lord and THE God of Thomas, why didn't Jesus correct him for making either a false assumption or a blasphemous statement?
34. If Christ will not have a visible return to earth, then how will he be seen by "ALL the tribes of the earth" (Mt 24:30) and by "EVERY eye" (Rev 1:7) when he returns?
35. If the Holy Spirit is God's impersonal active force, how could he: Be referred to as "he" and "him" in Jn 16:7-8 and Jn 16:13-14; Bear witness - Jn 15:26; Feel hurt - Isa 63:10; Be blasphemed against - Mk 3:29; Say things - Ezek 3:24, Acts 8:29, 10:19, 11:12, 21:11, Heb10:15-17, Rev 2:7; Desire - Gal 5:17; Be outraged - Heb 10:29; Search -1Cor 2:10; Comfort - Acts 9:31; Be loved - Rom 15:30 ; Be lied to and be God - Acts 5:3-4?
36. What is the meaning of Rev 14:9-11, which says, ", If anyone worships the wild beast , he shall be tormented with fire and sulphur , And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever , ". Where could "anyone" be "tormented , forever and ever"?
37. Jn 1:3 says in reference to Christ, "All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence". How could Christ have been a created being if ALL things came into existence through him? If Jesus was a created being, then according to Jn 1:3, Jesus would have had to create himself.
38. If the spirit of a man has no existence apart from the body, why does Stephen just before his death in Acts 7:59, pray to Jesus to "receive my spirit"? How could Jesus receive Stephen's spirit if a man's spirit ceases to exist when the body dies?
39. If the great crowd is to have everlasting life on paradise EARTH, why does 1Thess 4:17 say, ", we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR; and thus we shall always be with the Lord"?
40. If there are 144,000 spirit anointed people who have a heavenly hope, and a great crowd of people who have another hope of everlasting life on paradise earth, why does Paul say that there is only ONE hope (Eph 4:4), instead of two?
41. If there is no conscious awareness after death, how could the "spirits in prison" be preached to by Christ after his death (1Pet 3:18-20) and how could the good news be "declared also to the dead" (1Pet 4:6)?
42. In Phil 2:9, the NWT inserts the word "other", even though it doesn't appear in the original Greek (see Gr-Engl Interlinear). What is the reason for inserting this word? Is the word "Jehovah" a name? See Ex 6:3, Ps 83:18, and Isa 42:8. How would the verse read if the word "other" had not been inserted? What does scripture say about adding words to the Bible? See Prov 30:5-6.
43. Heb 9:28, speaking of Christ, says ", and the second time he appears, " How can Christ APPEAR a second time if he will not have a visible return to earth?
44. Amos 4:11 says, "'I caused an overthrow among you people, like God's overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah. And you came to be like a log snatched out of [the] burning; but you did not come back to me,' is the utterance of Jehovah." How can Jehovah speaking in this verse refer to another person as God (", like GOD'S overthrow of Sodom , "?
45. In Rev 19:1, where does it say that the "great crowd" will be?
46. If Christians are persecuted for the sake of Jehovah's name, why did Christ tell the first Christians that they would be persecuted for the sake of his (Jesus') name instead of Jehovah's (Mt 24:9, Mk 13:13, Lk 21:12, 17, Jn 15:21, and Acts 9:16)?
47. In Col 1:15-17, the NWT inserts the word "other" 4 times even though it is not in the original Greek (see Gr-Engl interlinear). Why is the word "other" inserted? How would these verses read if the word "other" had not been inserted?
48. In 2Pet 1:1, the NWT inserts the word "the". Why is it inserted? How would the verse read if the word "the" was not inserted? What does scripture say about adding words to the Bible? (See Prov 30:5-6).
49. In the sermon on the mount, when Jesus was addressing the "great crowd" (Lk 6:17), why did he tell them in Lk 6:22-23, ", your reward is great in heaven , "?
50. In Mt 1:23, who is Matthew referring to here that has been given the name which means "With Us Is God"?
51. In Rev 14:13, how can the dead be "happy" and find "rest" if there is no conscious awareness after death?
52. If Jesus was executed on a torture stake, with both hands together over his head, instead of on a cross with both hands outstretched, why does Mt 27:37 say that the sign "This is Jesus the King of the Jews" was "posted above his HEAD" instead of being posted above his hands? How could it have been posted above his head if his arms were stretched out over his head?
53. In Lk 4:12, the NWT translates "kyrios" (Gr-lord) as "Jehovah", which makes the verse read ", 'You shall not put Jehovah your God to the test.'" See Gr-Engl Interlinear. Why is kyrios translated as "Jehovah" in this verse? Was the devil, in Lk 4:9-11, putting Jehovah to the test or JESUS to the test?
54. The Bible says that ONLY God is our savior (Hos 13:4, Isa 43:11,45:21, etc.). How can it be then, that the Bible repeatedly says that Jesus Christ is our savior (Lk 2:11, Phil 3:20, Tit 2:13, 3:6, 2Pet 1:1, 2:20, 3:18, etc.)?
55. Referring to Isa 14:9-17, if there is no conscious awareness after death, how could Sheol ", become agitated at you in order to meet you on coming in, " (v.9), how could the souls in Sheol ", speak up and say to you, " (v.10-11), how could the souls in Sheol when ", seeing you will gaze even at you; they will give close examination even to you, [saying,] 'Is this the man', " (v. 16-17), and how would you be aware that this was happening?
56. Heb 3:1 refers to "holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling". In Mk 3:35, Jesus says, "Whoever does the will of God, this one is my brother , ". Therefore, according to the Bible, whoever does the will of God is a brother of Jesus and a partaker of the heavenly calling. How can this be if the Watchtower Society teaches that only 144,000 people go to heaven?
57. Heb 11:16, in speaking about some of the faithful people of the Old Testament (Abel, Noah, Abraham, etc.) says, "But now they are reaching out for a better [place], that is, one belonging to heaven, " and, ", their God for he has made a city ready for them." The footnote on the word "city" refers to HEAVENLY Jerusalem of Heb 12:22 and Rev 21:2. How can this be since according to the teachings of the Watchtower Society, the only people who will go to heaven are the 144,000 spirit anointed who have been chosen from people who lived after Christ died?
58. Rev 20:10 says, "And the Devil , the wild beast and the false prophet [already were]; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." Where will the devil, the wild beast, and the false prophet be "tormented day and night forever and ever"?
59. In Lk 24:36-39 and in Jn 20:26-27, Jesus showed his disciples the wounds in his body as proof of his resurrection. If Jesus' body had been destroyed by God after he died, how could Jesus show the disciples his body which had the wounds in his hands, feet, and side and claim that he is not just a spirit, "because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have" (Lk 24:39)?
60. If Christ was created by God and was the wisdom of God (Prov 8:1-4, 12, 22-31), then before Jesus would have been created, God would have had to have been without wisdom. How is it possible that God could have ever been without wisdom?
61. Rev 7:11 says that "before the throne" is in heaven where "all the angels were standing". Rev 14:2-3 says "And I heard a sound out of heaven , And they were singing as if a new song before the throne , ". Rev 7:9 says, ", look, a great crowd , standing before the throne, ". Rev 7:14-15 says, ", There are the ones that come out of the great tribulation , That is why they are before the throne of God , ". Therefore, if "before the throne " means in heaven (Rev 7:11, 14:2-3), and the "great crowd" is "before the throne" (Rev 7:9, 7:14-15), where does that mean that the great crowd will be?
62. If Jesus Christ is Michael the Archangel, how can Mt 25:31 say, "When the Son of man arrives in his glory, and ALL the angels with him, , ". Since "all the angels" would certainly include Michael the Archangel, is it possible that Jesus could return with himself?
63. In Lk 20:37-38, how could Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob be "all living to him (God)", since they all died hundreds of years before Jesus said this?
64. If the soul dies when the body dies, how could the "souls" of Rev 6:9- 11, who were of those who had been "slaughtered" (i.e., killed), cry out "with a loud voice, saying: 'Until when Sovereign Lord , "?
65. In Mt 28:19, Jesus tells his disciples to baptize "people of all the nations , in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit". Why would the disciples be instructed to baptize in the name of anybody or anything who was not God? Do Jehovah's Witnesses follow the command of Jesus and baptize "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit"?
66. If the human soul IS the person, how could the soul go out of a person (Gen 35:18) or come back into a person (1Kings 17:21)?
67. The Watchtower Society teaches that the earth will never be destroyed or depopulated. How can it be, then, that God says in Isa 51:6, ", the earth itself will wear out, and its inhabitants will die like a mere gnat , ", and that Jesus says in Mt 24:35, "Heaven and earth will pass away, ", and that John says in Rev 21:1 that he saw ", a new heaven and a NEW earth, for the former heaven and the FORMER earth had passed away, and the sea is no more."?
68. Referring to Lk 12:4-5, what would be left of a person after they were killed that could be thrown into Gehenna?
69. Who or what does the spirit of Christ (Phil 1:19, Gal 4:6, Rom 8:9) refer to? In Gal 4:6, how is it possible that the spirit of Christ could come into our hearts? How is it possible that the spirit of CHRIST could reside in someone? If what the Watchtower Society teaches is true, how could Paul make this statement if Christ was a spirit person residing in heaven?
70. In Jn 8:56, Jesus says, "Abraham your father rejoiced greatly in the prospect of seeing my day, and he saw it and rejoiced". Since Abraham died hundreds of years before Jesus said this, how could Jesus say that Abraham "saw it and rejoiced", if there is no conscious awareness after death?
71. In Jn 6:51, Jesus says that a person must eat "of this bread" in order to "live forever", and that "the bread that I give IS my flesh". In Jn 6:63, Jesus says ", Unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves." In Jn 6:54-55, Jesus says, "He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, " and ", for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink." Do you partake of the flesh of Christ , as Jesus commanded, in order to have life in yourself and in order to live forever?
72. Every true Christian would agree that we should follow the commands of God. In Mk 9:7, God the Father commands us to listen to Jesus. Do you follow this command and listen to Jesus? After all, Jesus died for your personal sins (1Jn 2:2, 1Pet 2:24). Jesus tells us to go directly to him (Mt 11:28-30), and the Father commanded us to listen to Jesus. Why? Because JESUS gives us everlasting life (Jn 10:28), and so that JESUS will enter our house and be with us and give us the right to sit on his throne (Rev 3:20- 21). Do you pray to Jesus as Paul and the early Christians did (1Cor 1:2)? Do you partake of the flesh of Christ as Jesus commanded (Jn 6:51)? If not, then are you following the command of the Father who said "Listen to him"?


it is rather pathetic that some millions of people stilll entrust their knowledge of the scripture of on vry few and unsincere pple in broklyn whose identity is hardly known. People should learn hw to take their spiritual destiny into their hand rather than entrusting it on some few individual.

Never has any religion been more criticize like the Jehovah Witness religion. Hey the truth hurts. . . , or the truth can set you free.

What you see on the tombstone of the founder of the Watchtower movement, is the Knights Templar Symbol for the York Rite of Freemasonry. This degree is equivalent to the 33rd Degree of Freemasonry and is the highest degree of the York Rite indicating that he knew whom he was serving.

http://www.cephasministry.com/masonic_connection_of_the_watchtower.html

@ kieryn,

I hold nothing against the jehova's witnesses, but when a man is inconsistent in his claims/beliefs i have evry right to cast a shadow on the integrity of the person. Its no news the jevova witnesses have change beliefs so often, as more are still expected to be changed, and as such confusing many pple into believing falsehood(no apology for this).

Not until an average witness learn how to be independent in his reading and understanding of the scripture, this falsehood will continue to prevail on gullible minds. Christain should learn how to grow and mature by learning the bible independently and cshould only seek the assistance of a more mature believer in the area he couldnt understand. chikena!!!

hello true2god,
are you an apostate?or you are just criticizing the witnesses.well,i think you are an apostate and the truth is this world is sinking gradually and you are still in it.i wish you all the best on that day.
luv,
small man.

@ small man,

If saying the fact (telling the truth) makes me an 'apostate', then i choose to be one.

Have a nice time.

To get the accurate Teachings about Jehovahs wttnesses and their teachings please visit the website www.watchtower.org.

Who b DAT FOOL WEY BRING DIS TOPIC.na lie

JW insist that Jesus Christ came back to the world in 1914. Yet, the Holy Bible speaks of His visible return in Mark 13: 26 "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory."

So, JW in the house, what do you have to say?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100127094828AATC8ny

This topic will never end. Again no religion is ever more criticize then the Jehovah's Witness religion, Never had any dispute if Catholic, Islam, or Buddhism is the true religion. We have to admit there so something special about this religion that can really pushes on people's nerves. You are we to say what is right of wrong. At the end of the day God is the ultimate Judge. We all have to carry our load.

Well d irony is dat al religions think dey are d best.bt as 4 d jws dey are cool.But i tink dey aint as smat as dey look

Sometimes I wonder why the JW refude to pray. Are they afraid that the name of Jesus in prayers may harm them?

-Edited- see next post.

I am a Jehovah's Witness un-baptised, and im 20 years old.  We do worship god with spirit and truth.  If you have any questions on us I can help answer those questions and if any of you are interested in more information on our beliefs you can visit  this link www.watchtower.org

Now we are the only religious organization that has restored the actual use of Gods name from the Tetragrammaton in Hebrew and we have a New World Tanslation of the Holy Scriptures in modern english.  Our "bible" is translated from the actual original Hebrew language and is held to the most accurate and the most direct translation of Gods word written through his Holy Spirit inspired men and prophets.

True Jehovahs Witnesses are Disciples of Jesus.  They are Gods people; those who are baptised and are dedicated to following Jesus Christs example to please Jesus'and our father in the Heavens, God. (YHWH) Yahweh, also seen in Hebrew as JHVH which is translated to Jehovah.  His name means "He causes to Become."  Even Jesus Christ acknowledges Gods' personal name and uses it several times in the original writtings.  Also Jesus is one of the three humans to be directly spoken to by Gods own personal voice, rather than by one of Gods messenging angels.  Although while Jesus was on earth he was supported and helped by his brotherly angels.  Before Jesus was sent to earth by God he was known as the arch angel Michael in Heaven.  He is Gods intercessor with mankind on earth.  Jesus was mankinds Ransom Sacrifice to save all of mankind and bless those who followed and obeyed Jesus and Gods word the bible.  Men and women who did just so were to be promised everlasting life after Satan had lossed his rule and those putting faith in God are to be ressurected back into life with the purpose of restoring the whole earth into a garden of Eden or described in the Holy Scriptures, Paradise with peace and security with a rule that would never be brought to ruin.  Also everyone was commanded to share the good news to others and save as many lives as possible and help people see the real truth that God has given mankind.