OkaiCorne:
Hi Akin1212, Trust your day is going on well. Kindly take out time to got through the link below. The link is an article on the biggest mysteries Science is yet to solve.

Look out for the one on WOW signal...lemme know what you think;

https://www.nairaland.com/4178905/world-biggest-mysteries-scientists-still


Cheers.

Yes, aliens may exist.

Extraterrestrial does not mean a creator or anything. For one, it has been established that life may exist elsewhere since water has been found on Mars. Extraterrestrial points to the possibility of finding life outside the earth and its atmosphere. Not that a God exists.

I hope you read the post and understood it because if you take it for a hard evidence that a creator exists then you're totally wrong.

It's been a while.

Akin1212:


Yes, aliens may exist.

Extraterrestrial does not mean a creator or anything. For one, it has been established that life may exist elsewhere since water has been found on Mars. Extraterrestrial points to the possibility of finding life outside the earth and its atmosphere. Not that a God exists.

I hope you read the post and understood it because if you take it for a hard evidence that a creator exists then you're totally wrong.

It's been a while.

Happy Sunday bro...been a while.

When I say a Creator exists...don't mistake that for a Sky Daddy in the clouds (that's a religious view).

It's just like how you said Energy is the Creator of everything...but my own point of view is Intellect + Consciousness +Energy = Eternal Creator.

This Creator is the source and cause of things seen and unseen to the ordinary eye (e.g. dark matter) in our universe.


Hope you've been doing great though... When are we having our drinks and nkwobi?

Akin1212:


Yes, aliens may exist.

Extraterrestrial does not mean a creator or anything. For one, it has been established that life may exist elsewhere since water has been found on Mars. Extraterrestrial points to the possibility of finding life outside the earth and its atmosphere. Not that a God exists.

I hope you read the post and understood it because if you take it for a hard evidence that a creator exists then you're totally wrong.

It's been a while.

In addition, we need to consider the possibilities of life forms existing without the need for water or oxygen. Broaden the scope.

There was a NASA documentary I watched on how several thousands of Earth-like planets are currently explored. These planets are estimated to live within the Goldilock zones of their Solar systems.

OkaiCorne:


Happy Sunday bro...been a while.

When I say a Creator exists...don't mistake that for a Sky Daddy in the clouds (that's a religious view).

It's just like how you said Energy is the Creator of everything...but my own point of view is Intellect + Consciousness +Energy = Eternal Creator.

This Creator is the source and cause of things seen and unseen to the ordinary eye (e.g. dark matter) in our universe.


Hope you've been doing great though... When are we having our drinks and nkwobi?

Happy Sunday although there's nothing about it.

Are you postulating that Aliens exist?

Yes, it is a possibility but none has yet been seen. The controversies about the existence of Aliens is as old as science but it is yet to be proven.

Nevertheless, if Aliens exist, I doubt they created the universe. Then questions of how the Aliens existed would arise again among billions of questions.

I already said an intelligent creator could not have created this universe or earth, there are so many visible imperfections here. Even those that were not caused or influenced, natural imperfections.

You have severally referred to this your creator as he/it who deserves worship, however, need I remind you that the WOW signal is solely about extraterrestrial bodies which means life outside earth. It doesn't relate in any form to life that cannot be perceived. It refers to another physical civilisation elsewhere other than earth that can receive frequencies and waves. I suppose that does not align with your thoughts.

OkaiCorne:


In addition, we need to consider the possibilities of life forms existing without the need for water or oxygen. Broaden the scope.

There was a NASA documentary I watched on how several thousands of Earth-like planets are currently explored. These planets are estimated to live within the Goldilock zones of their Solar systems.

Oxygen is not the only gas that can power life, some bacteria use sulphur for metabolism. The basic thing oxygen does is to burn organic matter. We basically use oxygen for our metabolic processes and it played a role in forming us through evolution. Another thing is the existence of plants, the sun, they all play a role in the use of Oxygen.

So if Aliens exist and they don't use Oxygen and Water, then they will not have sun and plants. To me, until proven true, all those things are fictions. In search of Aliens, we have scouted Mars and other planets. We are still looking for them.

Double post

Akin1212:

Happy Sunday although there's nothing about it.

Are you postulating that Aliens exist?

Yes, it is a possibility but none has yet been seen. The controversies about the existence of Aliens is as old as science but it is yet to be proven.

Nevertheless, if Aliens exist, I doubt they created the universe. Then questions of how the Aliens existed would arise again among billions of questions.

I am not postulating aliens created the Universe...they are also products of the Eternal Creator...but let's end this here for the sake of minds that cannot carry this (I'm not referring to you) as this would be the death knell on religions around the world.

Akin1212:

I already said an intelligent creator could not have created this universe or earth, there are so many visible imperfections here. Even those that were not caused or influenced, natural imperfections.

You are judging what is perfect from imperfect based on your limited view as a human. If you have a broader view, certain "imperfections" are in place for a purpose...or were created as a result of decisions. The way you see a parade from ground view (limited view) is different from how you see the parade on an aerial view (broader view)

Akin1212:

You have severally referred to this your creator as he/it who deserves worship, however, need I remind you that the WOW signal is solely about extraterrestrial bodies which means life outside earth. It doesn't relate in any form to life that cannot be perceived. It refers to another physical civilisation elsewhere other than earth that can receive frequencies and waves. I suppose that does not align with your thoughts.

Worship sounds a bit religious to me... It's more of communication and Partnership (dependence and synchronization).

As for the WOW signal, of course it refers to the possibility of a physical extra-terrestial existence on our level of vibration. There are levels of vibration (existence) that are higher or lower than ours (Humanity). We cannot see beings that exist on a higher level of vibration with the ordinary eyes..

Unfortunately, it's fictional to you until the growing body of Science eventually discovers it...

Akin1212:


Exactly, it will be difficult because I don't go about believing things that don't have empirical evidence unlike you. I prefer to know, I don't believe. Believing could be blind, you know?



What am I supposed to read into it? Oh, I am not even supposed to think of what you wrote at all, I am just supposed to accept it because you said it, whether it's logical or not, right? Satan's temporal punishment is to roam and be free to terrorize humanity? Does it make sense to you? Is there no other way to punish him than to unleash him on us? You are still bringing people's analogy into the matter as if it will make sense, If I use the same people's analogy to strike back and show you why it doesn't make sense, you'll start giving excuses.



As a matter of fact, you're the one who is twisting things. Your analogies are weak and irrelevant. God should bring judgement on bad people and leave the innocents out of it. When you punish the innocents for what they didn't do, you're simply an evildoer.




It's your choice not to believe too, there's no wise creator anywhere.



Does the choice you make supersede and transcends God's choice? If NO, then nobody has free will.



Exactly, you've given them the ability to make decisions ONLY on their own and your own decisions will not matter to them anymore. People under the law does not have free will, nobody has a free will in a society. Who is twisting things now, or is it that you don't simply understand the concept?



my question is this, did God know that people were going to make a mess before he created them? Who created the people making the mess? If God is perfect, he is not supposed to create people who will make a mess. His creations are really not perfect.



You tell me, if God is the one who makes the decision, then he is not limited to his own laws as you have said earlier because he makes the decisions.



Come off it brother. I am the free thinker here, you're the one who has a predetermined viewpoint(Christian). Yes, we are not going anywhere until you start accepting facts and stop believing without concrete evidence, and stop giving weak analogies that fall back on you.

Spirits don't die my foot. Have you seen one before? What surprises me is that you type confidently about something you know nothing about, who does that? Have you seen any spirit before? What's the influence of spirits in this world. We are really going nowhere if we are going to include ignorance of facts in our discussion.

You don't believe spirits exist. So, there's no point furthering our discussion. 99% of the world believe in the spirit realm and the supernatural. So, if you believe the entire world is wrong and you're right, it's your choice.
And please, stop calling yourself a free-thinker, you know you're not. You're a fellow that decides to disagree with available facts and hope to convince others to do same.

In the science world, you just don't discredit the existence of a thing just because it can't be proved. If you're going to concretely say it doesn't exist, you have to PROVE it doesn't exist.
You can't PROVE (using scientific methods) that God doesn't exist. That's if you're a scientist. However, there are verifiable facts that points to the fact that the spirit realm exists and God (creator, Supreme being) exists. I mentioned one of the above them. Try disproving one of them.

Akin1212:


Are you arguing from a general perspective? A free mind perspective or a religious one? So, for you and God now, I am liable for the sins of my Grandfather, the sins I know nothing about? I see why God is God, he is really a Good God that cannot differentiate between innocents and sinners. I really believe that your God is a God that will punish people for sins they are innocent of. Your example of Nigeria does not hold water at all, as a matter of fact, Nigeria is like that because God does not exist.
Besides, if the law now chose to punish a Nigerian leader that is corrupt according to your analogy, does the law punish all his families and his tribesmen or only him? God punished the whole Egypt for the sins of Pharaoh, who does that? A tyrant of course.



I'm tired of reading useless replies from you. Sorry to say.



This is really funny I swear. How do you define a better life? No Christian in Nigeria is richer than Dangote. There are millions of Muslims and Atheists who have a better life than YOU. Abeg, talk reasonable matter.


You can give us an instance where believing in Jesus stopped natural disasters, we will be glad to check it out. I don't need to be a creator before I know some things. It is called common sense and logic.

As earlier said, I'm not interested in your ranting. If you hate God, it's your choice (a bad one though). My life is better because I have a hope in the afterlife. You don't, because you don't even believe in the afterlife. But your belief or non-belief of a fact doesn't disprove the fact.
Amd please, stop confusing yourself. The Bible is about the God you believe doesn't exist. I'm not sure you know what you're doing.
1. Is it that you don't believe God exists?
2. or you believe God is a tyrant?
Which one? Because it can't be both. Your arguments since have been dwindling between the 2, which is why it's a waste of time.
If you don't believe God exists, then theres no reason to argue that he's a tyrant.
If you believe God is a tyrant, then you belive he exists.

Finally, you're not good at logic, give up already. You don't need to mention me until you've decided which side you're on (1 or 2).

OkaiCorne:


I am not postulating aliens created the Universe...they are also products of the Eternal Creator...but let's end this here for the sake of minds that cannot carry this (I'm not referring to you) as this would be the death knell on religions around the world.



You are judging what is perfect from imperfect based on your limited view as a human. If you have a broader view, certain "imperfections" are in place for a purpose...or were created as a result of decisions. The way you see a parade from ground view (limited view) is different from how you see the parade on an aerial view (broader view)



Worship sounds a bit religious to me... It's more of communication and Partnership (dependence and synchronization).

As for the WOW signal, of course it refers to the possibility of a physical extra-terrestial existence on our level of vibration. There are levels of vibration (existence) that are higher or lower than ours (Humanity). We cannot see beings that exist on a higher level of vibration with the ordinary eyes..

Unfortunately, it's fictional to you until the growing body of Science eventually discovers it...

How can Aliens be created by the eternal creator? For what purpose? Well, you have decided to end it there.

I don't understand what you mean by I am judging what is perfect as imperfect. A spade is a spade and not a hoe. Perfect is different from imperfect. Something that is a detriment to our existence cannot be perfect by all standards. If there is a powerful, almighty creator, it is not cool for such a powerful being to use imperfection to achieve perfection because he/it must be able to do all things. Imperfection itself is a limitation. And that's the limitations of Energy.

You communicate and partner what you can't see nor perceive? That's very disturbing to know.


What do you mean by level of vibrations? I hope you do mean this is a scientific term?

If you are not using science, how did you come to the conclusion that there are levels of vibrations? Do you have empirical and testable facts that can be retested to establish your claims?

The WOW signal is not a confirmation of the existence of any life form out there. There are billions of particles in space, the frequency was just discovered as the frequency that can travel a certain light years ahead.

Bolaji21:

You don't believe spirits exist. So, there's no point furthering our discussion. 99% of the world believe in the spirit realm and the supernatural. So, if you believe the entire world is wrong and you're right, it's your choice.
And please, stop calling yourself a free-thinker, you know you're not. You're a fellow that decides to disagree with available facts and hope to convince others to do same.

In the science world, you just don't discredit the existence of a thing just because it can't be proved. If you're going to concretely say it doesn't exist, you have to PROVE it doesn't exist.
You can't PROVE (using scientific methods) that God doesn't exist. That's if you're a scientist. However, there are verifiable facts that points to the fact that the spirit realm exists and God (creator, Supreme being) exists. I mentioned one of the above them. Try disproving one of them.

99% of the world? Lol. That's according to your own statistics and research, right? We really should not continue, I agree with you on that.

If your 99% stat is true, then 99% of the world is really stupid. I will prefer to know that spirits exist than to believe. I hope you know the difference between knowing and believing.

You said I disagree with available facts, are you kidding me? What facts have you given me? I am forced to question your understanding. Do you even know what facts are? Have you showed me where God lives, Have you shown me his picture? Have you shown me hard evidence that will tell me there's a God? You don't have facts, you just want me to believe. I can't, I need hard facts.

In the Science world, we say things don't exist if they don't conform with the basic laws of science. God simply does not exist in this world because it does not conform to the basic laws that guide the universe. That has been established.

So many scientific works have proved that God doesn't exist. For one, science said nobody created life, we evolved. If God says he created life and science have proved that life was not created, what does that mean to you? Do I need to spell it out?

You simply don't know the meaning of facts, do you? Before science discovered what makes rain to fall, people were thinking it was God that pours water from heaven. Rain is a fact and people gullibly thought God was responsible for it, but science came and explained it. I guess you're also behaving like a caveman too, because there is a phenomenon that you don't understand, you're attributing it to a supreme being. change your ways, bro. Besides, what did you say you mentioned? Retype it and let me trash it.

Bolaji21:

As earlier said, I'm not interested in your ranting. If you hate God, it's your choice (a bad one though). My life is better because I have a hope in the afterlife. You don't, because you don't even believe in the afterlife. But your belief or non-belief of a fact doesn't disprove the fact.
Amd please, stop confusing yourself. The Bible is about the God you believe doesn't exist. I'm not sure you know what you're doing.
1. Is it that you don't believe God exists?
2. or you believe God is a tyrant?
Which one? Because it can't be both. Your arguments since have been dwindling between the 2, which is why it's a waste of time.
If you don't believe God exists, then theres no reason to argue that he's a tyrant.
If you believe God is a tyrant, then you belive he exists.

Finally, you're not good at logic, give up already. You don't need to mention me until you've decided which side you're on (1 or 2).

You're not interested in my ranting then why did you contribute? Were you forced or paid? I'm surprised, but then I'm not surprised again because you are Christian, very confused. So your life is better because you have hope in the after-life? Lol, I really can't hold my laughter right now. If there is going to be an after-life, logically there must be a before-life. Can you please tell me where you were before you were born? Think well before you answer.

I don't need to have hopes in what doesn't exist, there's no after-life, it's an illusion.

Let me tell you something about facts, you have to know them, you don't believe facts. You have only believed that there is God, you don't know for sure. If you know for sure, then you should be able to show us this God, but you can't because all you have is a faith. Do you know the definition of faith?

But me I know that God does not exist. How? It's by simple logic. I HAVE EXPLAINED IT BELOW.

Let me give you an example maybe it will make you understand. One fact in life is that we breathe in oxygen to stay alive. I don't believe it, I know it. But how? Because I have empirically carried out the tests, oxygen can be measured, it is a physical property, take it away then there will not life, bring it back then there is life.

But what makes God not to be a fact is this. God said, call unto me in the time of troubles, I will answer you. Do you know the number of people who have died in tragedies? They called God and he did not answer because he is not there. Another one is this, God said he is not wicked, but I have been able to prove to yo the act of wickedness of God by killing innocent people. Everything about God is actually the opposite of what they said he is. That means everything is a lie.


Lol, I can see that you are really getting confused now. Your logical reasoning is very weak.

Now, everything about God was written by man. All I am trying to let you see are the inconsistencies in the storybook called bible you have been reading all your life. In the Bible, they said God is merciful, but the actions of the same God shows that he is not merciful.

According to the rule of thumb, if you have +1 and -1 then you have zero. God can't be merciful and wicked at the same time, and that logic brings us to the conclusion that the existence of a being that is wicked and merciful is zero. So God does not exist. Simple Logic.

It's really baffling that you find that simple logic confusing.

Akin1212:


How can Aliens be created by the eternal creator? For what purpose? Well, you have decided to end it there.

I don't understand what you mean by I am judging what is perfect as imperfect. A spade is a spade and not a hoe. Perfect is different from imperfect. Something that is a detriment to our existence cannot be perfect by all standards. If there is a powerful, almighty creator, it is not cool for such a powerful being to use imperfection to achieve perfection because he/it must be able to do all things. Imperfection itself is a limitation. And that's the limitations of Energy.

You communicate and partner what you can't see nor perceive? That's very disturbing to know.


What do you mean by level of vibrations? I hope you do mean this is a scientific term?

If you are not using science, how did you come to the conclusion that there are levels of vibrations? Do you have empirical and testable facts that can be retested to establish your claims?

The WOW signal is not a confirmation of the existence of any life form out there. There are billions of particles in space, the frequency was just discovered as the frequency that can travel a certain light years ahead.

If you walk into a room with a beautiful art-work there, if you cannot see or the perceive the Artist by your 5 senses, does it mean the Artist does not exist?

There are other ways you can reach out to the Artist you cannot see e.g. through a phone call. Reliance on the 5 senses and logic alone is a limitation of scope.

You can wait patiently till the growing body of Science discovers certain things that would change your current stance...

Cheers.

@ Akin1212...How far drinks and nkwobi?

Akin1212:


You're not interested in my ranting then why did you contribute? Were you forced or paid? I'm surprised, but then I'm not surprised again because you are Christian, very confused. So your life is better because you have hope in the after-life? Lol, I really can't hold my laughter right now. If there is going to be an after-life, logically there must be a before-life. Can you please tell me where you were before you were born? Think well before you answer.

I don't need to have hopes in what doesn't exist, there's no after-life, it's an illusion.

Let me tell you something about facts, you have to know them, you don't believe facts. You have only believed that there is God, you don't know for sure. If you know for sure, then you should be able to show us this God, but you can't because all you have is a faith. Do you know the definition of faith?

But me I know that God does not exist. How? It's by simple logic. I HAVE EXPLAINED IT BELOW.

Let me give you an example maybe it will make you understand. One fact in life is that we breathe in oxygen to stay alive. I don't believe it, I know it. But how? Because I have empirically carried out the tests, oxygen can be measured, it is a physical property, take it away then there will not life, bring it back then there is life.

But what makes God not to be a fact is this. God said, call unto me in the time of troubles, I will answer you. Do you know the number of people who have died in tragedies? They called God and he did not answer because he is not there. Another one is this, God said he is not wicked, but I have been able to prove to yo the act of wickedness of God by killing innocent people. Everything about God is actually the opposite of what they said he is. That means everything is a lie.


Lol, I can see that you are really getting confused now. Your logical reasoning is very weak.

Now, everything about God was written by man. All I am trying to let you see are the inconsistencies in the storybook called bible you have been reading all your life. In the Bible, they said God is merciful, but the actions of the same God shows that he is not merciful.

According to the rule of thumb, if you have +1 and -1 then you have zero. God can't be merciful and wicked at the same time, and that logic brings us to the conclusion that the existence of a being that is wicked and merciful is zero. So God does not exist. Simple Logic.

It's really baffling that you find that simple logic confusing.

It is not unexpected that you'll resort to insults. You claim to have empirically verified oxygen to exist. That's obviously false cos you didn't. You only belive what scientists told you. Your non-belief in God is sponsored by your belief in what scientists said.
You're confused and it's obvious. And you're not ready to be helped. So as I said earlier, no need to continue.

Akin1212:


99% of the world? Lol. That's according to your own statistics and research, right? We really should not continue, I agree with you on that.

If your 99% stat is true, then 99% of the world is really stupid. I will prefer to know that spirits exist than to believe. I hope you know the difference between knowing and believing.

You said I disagree with available facts, are you kidding me? What facts have you given me? I am forced to question your understanding. Do you even know what facts are? Have you showed me where God lives, Have you shown me his picture? Have you shown me hard evidence that will tell me there's a God? You don't have facts, you just want me to believe. I can't, I need hard facts.

In the Science world, we say things don't exist if they don't conform with the basic laws of science. God simply does not exist in this world because it does not conform to the basic laws that guide the universe. That has been established.

So many scientific works have proved that God doesn't exist. For one, science said nobody created life, we evolved. If God says he created life and science have proved that life was not created, what does that mean to you? Do I need to spell it out?

You simply don't know the meaning of facts, do you? Before science discovered what makes rain to fall, people were thinking it was God that pours water from heaven. Rain is a fact and people gullibly thought God was responsible for it, but science came and explained it. I guess you're also behaving like a caveman too, because there is a phenomenon that you don't understand, you're attributing it to a supreme being. change your ways, bro. Besides, what did you say you mentioned? Retype it and let me trash it.

Even those that argue correctly using logic, they're wise enough not to reason the way you do. Cos you've been drawing strawman since. Science has not proven that God doesn't exist. In fact, most of scientific discoveries point to a creator. For example, science admits that the universal is expanding. If it is, that means there's a time in the distant past that the universe didn't exist, then started to exist. This can only be resolved in one of 2 ways: that the universe created itself or that something/somebody created the universe. The first is silly and the second is more credible based on available facts.

The evolution you're referring to, I'm sure you're not a science student. Science just happens to be the only excuse atheists can use to defend their unbelief. Cos a science student will know that mainstream science is not in agreement with evolution.
Instead of arguing blindly here using info you gathered from the Internet, why don't you sit yourself down and read up on evolution. See how it started, why it started and it's acceptance in the world of science till today.

You don't have to keep arguing blindly, and I'm not interested.

Bolaji21:

Even those that argue correctly using logic, they're wise enough not to reason the way you do. Cos you've been drawing strawman since. Science has not proven that God doesn't exist. In fact, most of scientific discoveries point to a creator. For example, science admits that the universal is expanding. If it is, that means there's a time in the distant past that the universe didn't exist, then started to exist. This can only be resolved in one of 2 ways: that the universe created itself or that something/somebody created the universe. The first is silly and the second is more credible based on available facts.

The evolution you're referring to, I'm sure you're not a science student. Science just happens to be the only excuse atheists can use to defend their unbelief. Cos a science student will know that mainstream science is not in agreement with evolution.
Instead of arguing blindly here using info you gathered from the Internet, why don't you sit yourself down and read up on evolution. See how it started, why it started and it's acceptance in the world of science till today.

You don't have to keep arguing blindly, and I'm not interested.

Even if the Evolution school of thought holds water...I am still of the opinion that something cannot evolve without a "programming" in the background. And a program cannot happen without a Creator involved. Hence, the existence of an Eternal Creator.

On a side note...kindly pass across your message without jabs ...lest you unleash the dragon

OkaiCorne:


Even if the Evolution school of thought holds water...I am still of the opinion that something cannot evolve without a "programming" in the background. And a program cannot happen without a Creator involved. Hence, the existence of an Eternal Creator.

On a side note...kindly pass across your message without jabs ...lest you unleash the dragon

Thumbs up.
We refuse to jab ourselves!

Bolaji21:

Thumbs up.
We refuse to jab ourselves!

Thumbs up bro...

Akin1212...I hope you see this as a Peace Offering

OkaiCorne:


If you walk into a room with a beautiful art-work there, if you cannot see or perceive the Artist by your 5 senses, does it mean the Artist does not exist?

There are other ways you can reach out to the Artist you cannot see e.g. through a phone call. Reliance on the 5 senses and logic alone is a limitation of scope.

You can wait patiently till the growing body of Science discovers certain things that would change your current stance...

Cheers.

You know how to pick unrelated analogies, lol. but I will crush it as usual.

If the universe is the art and the creator is the artist, then what is the dark room? And if I walk into the room, does it mean I am equal in being to the artist or is the artist superior?

If the artist is a physical being, of course, I can call him/her. But in this case, your assumed creator is not physical or is it? How can you detect something that is not physical? Are there even empirical facts that there is another realm of existence other than hallucinations?

Even calling the artist would have involved my five senses. Or you can make a phone call without using your 5 senses?

On the nkwobi and drinks, it depends on where you are, I am currently in Zaria.

Bolaji21:

It is not unexpected that you'll resort to insults. You claim to have empirically verified oxygen to exist. That's obviously false cos you didn't. You only belive what scientists told you. Your non-belief in God is sponsored by your belief in what scientists said.
You're confused and it's obvious. And you're not ready to be helped. So as I said earlier, no need to continue.

You sat where you are and typed that I haven't done what I have done countless times. Tell me why I should be surprised. No wonder you believe in a God you have not seen exists in the clouds. .

Obviously false my ass in the lab, I have spent more time on science than you have spent in church all your life. Is it because we are exchanging posts on Nairaland?

Lol, he said I am confused, you are the one who said God killed innocents because of the sins of their leaders. It seems you and your God are both confused. I wonder who we should help first, you or God?

Bolaji21:

Even those that argue correctly using logic, they're wise enough not to reason the way you do. Cos you've been drawing strawman since. Science has not proven that God doesn't exist. In fact, most of scientific discoveries point to a creator. For example, science admits that the universal is expanding. If it is, that means there's a time in the distant past that the universe didn't exist, then started to exist. This can only be resolved in one of 2 ways: that the universe created itself or that something/somebody created the universe. The first is silly and the second is more credible based on available facts.

The evolution you're referring to, I'm sure you're not a science student. Science just happens to be the only excuse atheists can use to defend their unbelief. Cos a science student will know that mainstream science is not in agreement with evolution.
Instead of arguing blindly here using info you gathered from the Internet, why don't you sit yourself down and read up on evolution. See how it started, why it started and it's acceptance in the world of science till today.

You don't have to keep arguing blindly, and I'm not interested.

I just wasted my time with an illiterate. Science point to a creator? If I talk na it will be as if I am insulting but it's the truth. You're simply stupid. You think science is a religion? You think science will conclude that a spirit created everything?

I should really leave you with your wahala and ignorance and continue with open-minded people who are ready to learn.

Lol, this Idiot even said he is sure I am not a science student. Lol, what are you? A retarded_ frog?

I am not a science student actually, I am science myself. Satisfied?

And which of the science does not agree with evolution? Oh, you think evolution is about monkeys changing to humans?

Let me put it clearly, Science students know that mainstream idiots_ like you are not in agreement with evolution.

For your info, like I said, I am science, I have studied it all my life, I am still studying it, and I will until I die. Now, if that does not make you happy, you can take a stroll to the middle of an express road and be screaming Halleluyah there.

If you need lectures on evolution, you can apply.

You are sure of what you don't know, so much ignorance.

OkaiCorne:


Even if the Evolution school of thought holds water...I am still of the opinion that something cannot evolve without a "programming" in the background. And a program cannot happen without a Creator involved. Hence, the existence of an Eternal Creator.

On a side note...kindly pass across your message without jabs ...lest you unleash the dragon

It is just an opinion. Opinions are not facts.

And if at all there must be a background, then it's energy.

A perfect creator cannot create an imperfect world, hence energy is the creator

Akin1212:


You know how to pick unrelated analogies, lol. but I will crush it as usual.

If the universe is the art and the creator is the artist, then what is the dark room? And if I walk into the room, does it mean I am equal in being to the artist or is the artist superior?

If the artist is a physical being, of course, I can call him/her. But in this case, your assumed creator is not physical or is it? How can you detect something that is not physical? Are there even empirical facts that there is another realm of existence other than hallucinations?

Even calling the artist would have involved my five senses. Or you can make a phone call without using your 5 senses?

On the nkwobi and drinks, it depends on where you are, I am currently in Zaria.

On the nkwobi and drinks...I'm currently in Lasgidi unfortunately ...maybe some other time.

As for the Creator...The Creator can choose to manifest Himself (does not have a Gender per se...just like how you cannot give energy a gender) in the physical realm of existence whenever He pleases..and in whatever form he desires.

Let us use energy as an example...you do not have to see energy in the physical realm before you know it exists...yet energy can choose to manifest itself in the form of lightening...

The Eternal Creator can get in touch with your senses if you are really open to communicating with Him.
Dreams? Thoughts? Trances and Visions? They involve your sense or don't they? The Eternal Creator could equally use people to pass His message across to you...if you really want to hear Him


Once more...the Eternal Creator is not a Sky Daddy. Thanks and Cheers

Akin1212:


It is just an opinion. Opinions are not facts.

And if at all there must be a background, then it's energy.

A perfect creator cannot create an imperfect world, hence energy is the creator

Energy (alone) being the Creator is also your Opinion and not THE FACT...

I am still yet to see one basic example of Raw energy being responsible for Conscious and Intelligent life...

Akin1212:


I just wasted my time with an illiterate. Science point to a creator? If I talk na it will be as if I am insulting but it's the truth. You're simply stupid. You think science is a religion? You think science will conclude that a spirit created everything?

I should really leave you with your wahala and ignorance and continue with open-minded people who are ready to learn.

Lol, this Idiot even said he is sure I am not a science student. Lol, what are you? A retarded_ frog?

I am not a science student actually, I am science myself. Satisfied?

And which of the science does not agree with evolution? Oh, you think evolution is about monkeys changing to humans?

Let me put it clearly, Science students know that mainstream idiots_ like you are not in agreement with evolution.

For your info, like I said, I am science, I have studied it all my life, I am still studying it, and I will until I die. Now, if that does not make you happy, you can take a stroll to the middle of an express road and be screaming Halleluyah there.

If you need lectures on evolution, you can apply.

You are sure of what you don't know, so much ignorance.

I thought Bolaji21 apologized na... this was the Dragon I didn't want him to unleash and you still unleashed it

OkaiCorne:


On the nkwobi and drinks...I'm currently in Lasgidi unfortunately ...maybe some other time.

As for the Creator...The Creator can choose to manifest Himself (does not have a Gender per se...just like how you cannot give energy a gender) in the physical realm of existence whenever He pleases..and in whatever form he desires.

Let us use energy as an example...you do not have to see energy in the physical realm before you know it exists...yet energy can choose to manifest itself in the form of lightening...

The Eternal Creator can get in touch with your senses if you are really open to communicating with Him.
Dreams? Thoughts? Trances and Visions? They involve your sense or don't they? The Eternal Creator could equally use people to pass His message across to you...if you really want to hear Him


Once more...the Eternal Creator is not a Sky Daddy. Thanks and Cheers

Only that energy showed itself before we started knowing it exists and it is measurable. Is your creator measurable empirically? You are wrong in the fact that we don't have to see energy before we know it exists. We have to sense it with our 5 senses. Energy exists only in the physical realm, there's no other realm as far as science is concerned.

The creator has not for once manifested in this world, whether he pleases or not. Or have you seen him? Did you take a photo?
Dreams, thoughts, trances and visions don't involve the senses, they involve the mind. You cannot see your dreams, not smell your thoughts, neither can you hear your trances not eat your visions. You are going anti-science again.

Just tell me already if you are anti-science or not.

OkaiCorne:


Energy (alone) being the Creator is also your Opinion and not THE FACT...

I am still yet to see one basic example of Raw energy being responsible for Conscious and Intelligent life...

Energy powering existence is not an opinion. It is a hard fact. You have to tell me something you can do without energy.

And you have to tell me if the world is a perfect design.

OkaiCorne:


I thought Bolaji21 apologized na... this was the Dragon I didn't want him to unleash and you still unleashed it

He apologized my foot. Can you imagine his assertions? Very annoying.

He even asked me to go and read about evolution

One thing I hate most in my life is when someone assumes what other people are. He has the rights to be silly though.

He said mainstream science does not agree with evolution, something that is the centre of focus in mainstream science.

Akin1212:


Energy powering existence is not an opinion. It is a hard fact. You have to tell me something you can do without energy.

And you have to tell me if the world is a perfect design.

I have no qualms on Energy powering existence.

But Energy powering existence is different from Energy creating existence.

Without Consciousness and Intellect... energy can be useless and destructive.

Akin1212:


Only that energy showed itself before we started knowing it exists and it is measurable. Is your creator measurable empirically? You are wrong in the fact that we don't have to see energy before we know it exists. We have to sense it with our 5 senses. Energy exists only in the physical realm, there's no other realm as far as science is concerned.

The creator has not for once manifested in this world, whether he pleases or not. Or have you seen him? Did you take a photo?
Dreams, thoughts, trances and visions don't involve the senses, they involve the mind. You cannot see your dreams, not smell your thoughts, neither can you hear your trances not eat your visions. You are going anti-science again.

Just tell me already if you are anti-science or not.

I am Pro-Science. Energy is an essential part of the Eternal Creator. Same way as Intelligence and Consciousness is essential.

If you have seen Energy... you have seen a tiny fragment of the Eternal Creator.


By the way... have you ever interacted with people who died and came back to life?

OkaiCorne:


I have no qualms on Energy powering existence.

But Energy powering existence is different from Energy creating existence.

Without Consciousness and Intellect... energy can be useless and destructive.

Exactly, Energy can be useless and destructive. Usable Energy is never useless but can be destructive and yes it is destructive and also constructive. Bermuda triangle, Volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamis etc etc etc are the destructive signs of energy.

There is no creator anywhere bro. I would say energy is the creator as usual, but I don't want to see it as one because there is none.


An intelligent Creator would not create the bolded above if truly he/it is intelligent, otherwise, it is not intelligent, Hence energy surfaces again.