Ludicrous!

salvation101:
The one that should be embarrassed here is you cos i revealed the identity of the folks ur society tried so much to conceal. Can u quote where i specifically associated with Kjv. U brot it up cos dats wat u av been trained to attack in ur ususal meetings u call Bible study.

Well, I doubt if any JW has ever revealed as much as I have to you. We do not usually tell this kind of stories and to this kind of detail. We teach the truth about the Bible and avoid cantankerous situations. We do not teach these things in our meetings either. We spend more time inciting to love and fine works.
Some of the things that I told you come from the secular knowledge that every student should have at least an average knowledge about. If you search all JW books, you will find it difficult to see such information that I have revealed to you. There are millions of people who read our publications.
Like I said, I only wanted to lessen your tyre because you came so pumped up and feeling like you could run over the JW at will. You might have been successful in some of your approaches and you have mastered this art over time. That is why I turned the table at you to see if you can eat the bushmeat that you serve others. It turns out that you have not been able to recover. And this has cut a deep wound in your strategy. There is more to give you if you keep coming. I am only in the defending my faith and you are attacking.

salvation101:

Wats d different between jws and mormons .

JW only speak for themselves, not for Mormons. I tell you about my faith and when you meet a Mormon, you may ask him that. The best I can tell you is that both you and a Mormon are classified under one umbrella (trinitarian). So, do not try to hard to distance yourself from a Mormon.

salvation101:

Why are u more concerned about seeing a man who has been working miracle than u r about applying wat the scripture says about praying and receiving answers?

I know stuff but we will get there. You are just ashamed of coming out openly. Did any Jehovah's Witness ever tell you that the JW do not believe in miracles? No! We do believe in miracles. A dead horse is dead, stop flogging it! I only asked a question. Do not get upset LOL. But, we know what you are running away from.

salvation101:
Well for ur information, salvation101 believes the word of Jesus on asking and receiving and so i pray to God and av answers to my prayers. U seem to believe in magic but disbelieve miracles. To u, the power of the devil is more potent today than the power of God, u should go on ur knees right now and beg God for forgiveness. U av a form of godliness but deny the power, u will hold on to ur doctrine than wat d word of God says. Its evident that you do not av the person of the Holy spirit in ur midst as we know wat dat presence did in scriptures, and u will rather sit back to criticise those who believe the word and the word is working in them. Dis is the same word pentecostals believed few years ago and today u all are jealous of the growth rate. We Jesus is lifed up, He draws men unto himselt. For ur questions, u just want me to keep repeating myself huh?
In d case of john baptism, u er, not knowing d scripture nor the power of God. Do u believe in omni presence of God? Do u believe the same Holy Spirit that was working wit peter at Jerusalem was also working with paul in asia minor?

My questions will keep reoccurring until they get answered. Just as you recycle your programmed questions for us.

Are you sure that it said that the word was with Theos? What version of Greek scripture are you using? The one by the 55 man committee of Puritans that made a fatal 'mistake'?
John 1:1 reads 'the word was with THEON and the word was THEOS'.
Why do you want to commit the same heretical blunder that the 55 'educated' man committee of Puritans committed?
Double-check now that you still have the time.


55 EDUCATED man committee of Puritans. It was a 'mistake' 7 years to complete their Bible Stole from Tyndale

salvation101:
in the beginning was the word and the word was with Theos a d the word was Theos, why do u change one Theos to mean God and the other to a god? Where is the article a coming from? U see dat alone gives it an entirely different meaning. The greek used the word Theos to refer to gods and goddesses. In d new testament, theos can be God or god, but where did ur article "a" come from? A dot or comma can entirely change the meaning of a sentence nd dat is wat u folks intended to achieve wen u added "a"

removetheturban:
Ludicrous!

Well, I doubt if any JW has ever revealed as much as I have to you. We do not usually tell this kind of stories and to this kind of detail. We teach the truth about the Bible and avoid cantankerous situations. We do not teach these things in our meetings either. We spend more time inciting to love and fine works.
Some of the things that I told you come from the secular knowledge that every student should have at least an average knowledge about. If you search all JW books, you will find it difficult to see such information that I have revealed to you. There are millions of people who read our publications.
Like I said, I only wanted to lessen your tyre because you came so pumped up and feeling like you could run over the JW at will. You might have been successful in some of your approaches and you have mastered this art over time. That is why I turned the table at you to see if you can eat the bushmeat that you serve others. It turns out that you have not been able to recover. And this has cut a deep wound in your strategy. There is more to give you if you keep coming. I am only in the defending my faith and you are attacking.
JW only speak for themselves, not for Mormons. I tell you about my faith and when you meet a Mormon, you may ask him that. The best I can tell you is that both you and a Mormon are classified under one umbrella (trinitarian). So, do not try to hard to distance yourself from a Mormon.
I know stuff but we will get there. You are just ashamed of coming out openly. Did any Jehovah's Witness ever tell you that the JW do not believe in miracles? No! We do believe in miracles. A dead horse is dead, stop flogging it! I only asked a question. Do not get upset LOL. But, we know what you are running away from. My question will keep reoccuring until they get answerered.

U just contradicted ursef by saying Jw never does anything in secret nd u still said i wouldn't av been told many of the things u av said during d course of dis discussion. How come ur meetings aren't televised if there isn't anything to hide. I know its not about money cos u guys can afford to pay for it. Wat av i not been able to recover from? Please let me know.
On the contrary, the Mormons are more like u guys(secret society) ,.. Half truth is worse than a lie. Believing in the trinity doesn't make dem less a society dan urs.

Now, do u believe Jesus is God, The father is God and the Holy Spirit is God? If u do, what does the Bible mean wen it said "The lord ur God is one God?"

U said u believe in miracle but u said it has been done away with, how do u reconcile both statements

Funny! We do not go about wasting our time denigrating others or seeking people's loopholes. We endeavour to look for the good in others. As a matter of fact, we appreciate the ERV's effort to publish the Bible. It helps to get the message out there. The Bible says that Jehovah's word will abound in the final part of the days.
So, do not fear, the JW will not come for you. You are keeping away for nothing. Just relax! Nonetheless, keep watch over your fellow Trinitarians because they are the ones that will decimate you. You will cry when you read stuff about your ERV Bible.

JW appreciate your Bible versions but we have issues only with SOME verses. That does not mean that we do not use them or own them. Some of your Bibles are on our website jw.org and we encourage people to choose what they want to read and compare.

salvation101:
very interesting, the reference materials u use, were dey not written by ppl or ur 5 man committee Bible? Why den do u av a problem with 55 puritans u keep repeating? Av u done ur researches on the errors in my Erv version bible? Am patiently waiting for it. Why u come dey attach kjv to me na? Wen u asked me a question i answered directly but u still look for a way to attach kjv to me(or maybe watchtower society hasn't published an article spotting the errors in Erv yet, ill waait patiently for it)..

salvation101:
good, let me assume u are right calling Jesus a god, den why do u refute the presence of Jesus in Gen 1? Why did u argue against the plurality of the God there? Cos according to this book of john, without Jesus was nothing anything made dat was made. Do u agree dat Jesus was present there with God in Gen 1? Do u also agree that the Holy Spirit was present?

Why this baseless accusations ? I can't remember discussing any of such with you.

I don't think. any Devoted Jew while reading those verses will think about a trinity . " US " can refer to two, three or more people . So who is there to confirm it's just 2 , 3 or 4 that Yahweh is speaking with ? Even a Bible verse said Angels are there when man is created, so how can one be dogmatic about the " Us " , when even the Jews that owned the Torah never read such into the verse .

In d book of acts u quoted, did paul agree that he was a god? Wat was is reaction after the ignorance displayed by the ppl in calling him a god?

Try to argue intelligently ma , Notice the reason I quoted that was to prove a point about Greek grammar construction .

salvation101:

U just contradicted ursef by saying Jw never does anything in secret nd u still said i wouldn't av been told many of the things u av said during d course of dis discussion.

Yeah, we do not spend time judging the KJB or denigrating others. We encourage people to read the Bible to find a way to everlasting life. This sort of historical revelation is too much information. I, personally went this length with you to show you the other side of the coin. Do you remember the wise saying that encourages people living in cheap glass houses not to throw stones? To be honest the bloggers themselves cannot prove points that they post online. I meet JW haters every now and then.

salvation101:

How come ur meetings aren't televised if there isn't anything to hide. I know its not about money cos u guys can afford to pay for it.

Well, unlike your Church, we do not have one special pastor representing us. We have elders in charge of organising the congregations. Everyone participates in our services. We all assemble to study the word of God and we learn and encourage others by our actions and comments.
Here is our midweek meeting for this week.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Aev4AMeBHg
There are thousands like this going on every week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT5gwx-DQ3g
This is the weekend meeting.
You may also visit tv.jw.org to view our live streaming

salvation101:

Wat av i not been able to recover from? Please let me know.
On the contrary, the Mormons are more like u guys(secret society) ,.. Half truth is worse than a lie. Believing in the trinity doesn't make dem less a society dan urs.

I don't know that but you are being judgmental. You are trying to gain a higher moral ground above the Mormons which is not even Christlike. You are only human and if we dig into your life, you will be surprised at what we can dig out. How about Jehovah looking down from above and seeing all your flaws and sinfulness. I am not even Mormon but I will not support you denigrating them. We go out to preach to all. When Jesus saw the crowd he called them a harvest. Fruits waiting to be plucked.
We go out to preach to all and sundry. Its the person and not the place, it is the heart and not the face. God's message is for all and no one should feel superior above another.
Here is the deal. If you called a secret society, just like you call us, what effort have you made to preach to the members of Mormon? Didn't Jesus ask you to go out to preach?
Why did it have to take someone from a secret society to get you to confess that 55 educated man committee of Puritans made a blunder in the Holy book of God?

salvation101:

Now, do u believe Jesus is God, The father is God and the Holy Spirit is God? If u do, what does the Bible mean wen it said "The lord ur God is one God?"

This question is an actual representation of what could happen to someone who jumps in a wagon driven by 55 educated members of a marauding band AKA Puritans. LOL
Deuteronomy 6:4 This is actually one of the gifted verses that we use to prove the heresy in the doctrine of the Trinity. This is another verse that exposes the sinister intentions of the 55 educated man committee who inserted the heretical texts in 1 John 5:7 into the Bible.
As for this verse, the Hebrew manuscript reads Darby Bible Translation Hear, Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah;
Hear, Israel: YHWH our God is one YHWH.
A little research will send you back here feeling chagrined.

salvation101:
U said u believe in miracle but u said it has been done away with, how do u reconcile both statements

Oh, yeah! The Bible never said that Miracle was done away with. It says 'gifts'. The gift for one to do such is over. Therefore, whatever you see around is a show of magical power and deception to entice people to the road that leads to destruction.

Peacefullove:


Why this baseless accusations ? I can't remember discussing any of such with you.

I don't think. any Devoted Jew while reading those verses will think about a trinity . " US " can refer to two, three or more people . So who is there to confirm it's just 2 , 3 or 4 that Yahweh is speaking with ? Even a Bible verse said Angels are there when man is created, so how can one be dogmatic about the " Us " , when even the Jews that owned the Torah never read such into the verse .


Try to argue intelligently ma , Notice the reason I quoted that was to prove a point about Greek grammar construction .

oh, u are a different person. My bad. If u notice, loving jehova i av been chatting with has been using different munikers so must av mistook urs as one of his.
However, d Bible never said d angels where involved in the creation work, the place i guess u are referring to is d part it said dey leaped for joy huh? Yep dey were obviously spectators. Where we just talked about in John one tells us Jesus the word was active in the creation work and went further to say without him, nothing was made dat was made...
Let us make man in our image, does dat sound like observer wgile i make man in my image? Are u also suggesting dat Jehova couldn't av made man in his image and had to call for assistance? Please i would like to av get ur opinion on wat u think happened there

No! This is really important for you to note because this is a huge part of your doctrine and it is missing in the Bible. It shows you that your doctrine is fabricated. But why did the 55 educated men with all their sophistry find it unable to make up a word for it? They were busy replacing Jehovah to Lord and yet they did were not successful at it.

Today you admitted that they made a 'mistake'. Now, the question is, are you educated (in theology, Latin, Greek and Hebrew) or are you a Puritan for you to classify the work of 55 educated Puritans as "mistake"?

What gave you that authority or credence to arrive at such a conclusion?

salvation101:
u r very subtle my friend. U asked for the Hebrew word of God the Holy Spirit. U didn't ask me to show u from the bible did you? Dat was why u where saying the the word Rapture, trinity are wrong cos u can't find it in the Bible. Is the word choir or pulpit found in d Bible? Can u also tell me the Hebrew word for watch tower society or president?

removetheturban:
Yeah, we do not spend time judging the KJB or denigrating others. We encourage people to read the Bible to find a way to everlasting life. This sort of historical revelation is too much information. I, personally went this length with you to show you the other side of the coin. Do you remember the wise saying that encourages people living in cheap glass houses not to throw stones? To be honest the bloggers themselves cannot prove points that they post online. I meet JW haters every now and then. Well, unlike your Church, we do not have one special pastor representing us. We have elders in charge of organising the congregations. Everyone participates in our services. We all assemble to study the word of God and we learn and encourage others by our actions and comments.
Here is our midweek meeting for this week.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Aev4AMeBHg
There are thousands like this going on every week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT5gwx-DQ3g
This is the weekend meeting.
You may also visit tv.jw.org to view our live streaming
I don't know that but you are being judgmental. You are trying to gain a higher moral ground above the Mormons which is not even Christlike. You are only human and if we dig into your life, you will be surprised at what we can dig out. How about Jehovah looking down from above and seeing all your flaws and sinfulness. I am not even Mormon but I will not support you denigrating them. We go out to preach to all. When Jesus saw the crowd he called them a harvest. Fruits waiting to be plucked.
We go out to preach to all and sundry. Its the person and not the place, it is the heart and not the face. God's message is for all and no one should feel superior above another.
Here is the deal. If you called a secret society, just like you call us, what effort have you made to preach to the members of Mormon? Didn't Jesus ask you to go out to preach?
Why did it have to take someone from a secret society to get you to confess that 55 educated man committee of Puritans made a blunder in the Holy book of God?
This question is an actual representation of what could happen to someone who jumps in a wagon driven by 55 educated members of a marauding band AKA Puritans. LOL
Deuteronomy 6:4 This is actually one of the gifted verses that we use to prove the heresy in the doctrine of the Trinity. This is another verse that exposes the sinister intentions of the 55 educated man committee who inserted the heretical texts in 1 John 5:7 into the Bible.
As for this verse, the Hebrew manuscript reads Darby Bible Translation Hear, Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah;
Hear, Israel: YHWH our God is one YHWH.
A little research will send you back here feeling chagrined.

Oh, yeah! The Bible never said that Miracle was done away with. It says 'gifts'. The gift for one to do such is over. Therefore, whatever you see around is a show of magical power and deception to entice people to the road that leads to destruction.

Bravo, i must acknowledge dat u did an impressive job since we started chatting.
I would also wanna know why the word "cross" is missen from ur scripture
I would also wanna know why the greek words for hell such as sheol, tartarus, hades, gehena are not translated to mean hell in ur Bible.
In colossians 1:16 ur Bible introduces the word "other" wch is not present in any of the original greek text, care to explain why?

No problems! @salvation101. It happens! I was getting frequently blocked that is why I opened this.
Nevertheless, using your argument here, you cannot argue that 3 Gods were involved. We can tell that Jesus was referred to by taking other verses into context. Other verses referred to Jesus as the masterwork BY HIS SIDE and other verses tell that thing came THROUGH Jesus. It is on these comparisons that we can clearly say that Jesus might be the one he referred to.
Revelation 1:1 also shows the work pattern of Jehovah and Jesus. It comes FROM Jesus, he passed it to an angel. The message, therefore, came through Jesus.

salvation101:
oh, u are a different person. My bad. If u notice, loving jehova i av been chatting with has been using different munikers so must av mistook urs as one of his.
However, d Bible never said d angels where involved in the creation work, the place i guess u are referring to is d part it said dey leaped for joy huh? Yep dey were obviously spectators. Where we just talked about in John one tells us Jesus the word was active in the creation work and went further to say without him, nothing was made dat was made...
Let us make man in our image, does dat sound like observer wgile i make man in my image? Are u also suggesting dat Jehova couldn't av made man in his image and had to call for assistance? Please i would like to av get ur opinion on wat u think happened there

removetheturban:
No! This is really important for you to note because this is a huge part of your doctrine and it is missing in the Bible. It shows you that your doctrine is fabricated. But why did the 55 educated men with all their sophistry find it unable to make up a word for it? They were busy replacing Jehovah to Lord and yet they did were not successful at it.

Today you admitted that they made a 'mistake'. Now, the question is, are you educated (in theology, Latin, Greek and Hebrew) or are you a Puritan for you to classify the work of 55 educated Puritans as "mistake"?

What gave you that authority or credence to arrive at such a conclusion?

how is it fabricated? I shared with you scriptural references where the bible referred to both the father as God, the son as God and the Holy Spirit as God... Can't i as well refer to the Holy Spirit as God the Holy Spirit? Or the son as God the son?
According to ur belief backup by Bible, how many "Mighty God" do u believe there are?

salvation101:
oh, u are a different person. My bad. If u notice, loving jehova i av been chatting with has been using different munikers so must av mistook urs as one of his.
However, d Bible never said d angels where involved in the creation work, the place i guess u are referring to is d part it said dey leaped for joy huh? Yep dey were obviously spectators. Where we just talked about in John one tells us Jesus the word was active in the creation work and went further to say without him, nothing was made dat was made...
Let us make man in our image, does dat sound like observer wgile i make man in my image? Are u also suggesting dat Jehova couldn't av made man in his image and had to call for assistance? Please i would like to av get ur opinion on wat u think happened there

I don't think Yahweh is calling for assistance, But Jesus as a faithful servant is doing his work . Same way one can't say Yahweh sending prophets to the people means he is calling for assistance to speak .


Yes, going by that John one you quote , said Yahweh's son Jesus was there in creation . could the " US " be just two persons then ? or what is your point ?

removetheturban:
No problems! @salvation101. It happens! I was getting frequently blocked that is why I opened this.
Nevertheless, using your argument here, you cannot argue that 3 Gods were involved. We can tell that Jesus was referred to by taking other verses into context. Other verses referred to Jesus as the masterwork BY HIS SIDE and other verses tell that thing came THROUGH Jesus. It is on these comparisons that we can clearly say that Jesus might be the one he referred to.
Revelation 1:1 also shows the work pattern of Jehovah and Jesus. It comes FROM Jesus, he passed it to an angel. The message, therefore, came through Jesus.

ok but u agree that more than a single God is involved? Or could Yahweh av been talking to his own self? If u say God created everything through Jesus, then was Jesus actively involved in the creation or not?

Peacefullove:


I don't think Yahweh is calling for assistance, But Jesus as a faithful servant is doing his work . Same way one can't say Yahweh sending prophets to the people means he is calling for assistance to speak .


Yes, going by that John one you quote , said Yahweh's son Jesus was there in creation . could the " US " be just two persons then ? or what is your point ?

ok, you den agree dat at least Yahweh and Jesus worked together during the creation right? So do u believe dat man was created in both the image of Yahweh and Jesus (at least)? Cos he said man should be created in "our" image and "likeness".. Do u also think Yahweh and Jesus share a likeness?

salvation101:
ok, you den agree dat at least Yahweh and Jesus worked together during the creation right? So do u believe dat man was created in both the image of Yahweh and Jesus (at least)? Cos he said man should be created in "our" image and "likeness".. Do u also think Yahweh and Jesus share a likeness?

I need to understand what you meant by " image and likeness of God " . Can u make it clear ?

there are varied opinions on that .

Some mean it to be physical appearance, which creates many question .

So, it would make sense to know the context of the person asking the question

Peacefullove:


I need to understand what you meant by " image and likeness of God " in the case of humans .

ok cool. According to you, here is God tell his faithful servant(s) dat dey should make man in their "own" image, and after their likeness isn't it? Obviously Adam was made in the image of the person(s) that created him otherwise u would be saying dey changed their mind wch is not in consonance with scripture.. So, do u believe man or Adam was created in the image of Yahweh and wateva persons assisted him in the work?

salvation101:
ok cool. According to you, here is God tell his faithful servant(s) dat dey should make man in their "own" image, and after their likeness isn't it? Obviously Adam was made in the image of the person(s) that created him otherwise u would be saying dey changed their mind wch is not in consonance with scripture.. So, do u believe man or Adam was created in the image of Yahweh and wateva persons assisted him in the work?

I don't agree with the quote " and whatever persons " . because they don't have a different image . But that of Yahweh .... which makes everyone got the tag " Son of God ( Yahweh ) " NOT son of Jesus or any other . so whoever was with Yahweh is also a son .

Yes, I agree Adam was made in the image of Yahweh ( Whoever was with Yahweh in creation is an image of Yahweh too, so when he said come let Us in our own image ... he was trying to take carry everyone along , but in reality they don't have a different image but what Yahweh gave them , Even Bible said Jesus is in the image of Yahweh too , So if Jesus could be in the image of Yahweh .. it simply means the " image " and " likeness " belongs exclusively to Yahweh Almighty.

Peacefullove:


I don't agree with the quote " and whatever persons " . because they don't have a different image . But that of Yahweh .... which makes everyone got the tag " Son of God ( Yahweh ) " NOT son of Jesus or any other . so whoever was with Yahweh is also a son .

Yes, I agree Adam was made in the image of Yahweh ( Whoever was with Yahweh in creation is an image of Yahweh too, so when he said come let Us in our own image ... he was trying to take carry everyone along , but in reality they don't have a different image but what Yahweh gave them , Even Bible said Jesus is in the image of Yahweh too , So if Jesus could be in the image of Yahweh .. it simply means the " image " and " likeness " belongs exclusively to Yahweh Almighty.

ok. Jesus and Yahweh has the same image? Brilliant.
So has Jesus is the express image of Yahweh,?

salvation101:
ok. Jesus and Yahweh has the same image? Brilliant.
So has Jesus is the express image of Yahweh,?

Jesus was created in the image of Yahweh, ( Col 1 vs 15 IMAGE of the invisible God ) such as Adam was created in the image of Yahweh too.

salvation101:

Bravo, i must acknowledge dat u did an impressive job since we started chatting.

Thanks.

salvation101:
I would also wanna know why the word "cross" is missen from ur scripture

Well, the Cross is an idol and part of the things that the Bible asked us to avoid 1 Corinthians 10:14. The identifying mark of Christianity is love and not a Cross John 13:35.
Cross is not the interpretation of the Greek word Stauros on which Jesus died. Jesus died on STAUROS, a stake/pole/tree and not a Cross. You may look it up. Cross is a heretic pagan symbol incorporated into Christianity by the same pagan who introduced the Trinity doctrine in 325 CE during the council of Nicaea.
Even your world class Bible can attest to that. King James Bible Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
That is why I ask, do you even read your own Bible before pointing fingers? Would you call the above a "mistake"?
Our Bible is not the only to properly that word, a plethora of Bibles do and some are now beginning to embrace the truth by editing their Bibles. This is a move to distance themselves from the 55 educated men that are full of mistakes LOL.
You can see how the KJB failed it. Too many captains wrecked that ship. 55 educated puritans wrote cross in a verse, move over to another verse and wrote tree. I don’t know what brand of whiskey they were high on but it was indeed the best of its kind.
King James Bible Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

salvation101:

I would also wanna know why the greek words for hell such as sheol, tartarus, hades, gehena are not translated to mean hell in ur Bible.

Even if we did, the sense still remains the same. It all boils down to the common grave of man. Our Bible is written in modern English and grave is a very fitting word to use when translating those Hebrew and Greek words.
For the sake of ‘my personal argument’ (do not quote the JW. JW books also use the word hell and refer to it as the common grave), the origin of the word hell is from a Germanic myth. Therefore, myth and Christianity do not sail in the same ship. The word is misused today and used to instil fear in people.
Nevertheless, hell is simply the common grave. Our books are written in plain and simple English or other languages.

salvation101:

In Colossians 1:16 ur Bible introduces the word "other" which is not present in any of the original Greek text, care to explain why?

Exactly the same reason why King James Bible and many other translations added it at Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the ‘other’ apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
In Colossians 1:16, the subsequent verses explain the contextual implication of verse 16. Every Bible has its translated in accordance to its own understanding. Saying “the bartender served Nigerian present in the room”. That statement is open to one’s own understanding. Did the bartender serve himself? That is left for each one to decide. Saying ‘the bartender served other Nigerians present in the room’. The latter sentence might give the reader better understanding.
Let us narrow it down to the Bible verse proper. If we say that Jesus created all things, does it include Jesus himself? Is he part of ALL? It is left for you to decide. The inclusion of other is amplification in the sense of the translation. This is clearly visible in all translations of the Bible.

Peacefullove:


Jesus was created in the image of Yahweh, ( Col 1 vs 15 IMAGE of the invisible God ) such as Adam was created in the image of Yahweh too.

ok. So it is safe to say Man was created in Jesus image since Jesus and God had same image?

You were making sense until you said cross came to being in 325ce, are u unaware that both the greek nd Romans borrowed it from the Phoenicians as a the torture instrument for their worst criminals? Are u also denying the fact that Nero crucified alot of the apostles on the cross? It is on historical record that Apostle peter refused refused to be crucified on an upright cross cos he said he was not worthy to die the same way Jesus did?
Paul the Apostle said he only glories in the cross of Jesus in Gal 6:14 the greek word for the cross is stauros,
Its amazing how u run back to same Bible u condemn weneva it agrees to ur bias. The greek word xulon translated as tree is the same word for wood and where did anyone deny dat Jesus was crucified on a wooden cross?

Now about hell meaning grave, wat do u make of Jesus parable of the rich man and Lazarus?
Psalm19:17 attested to the fact that hell is a place for the wicked and all who forget God. Is dat the same grave u r talking about?
Was it the same place Jesus talked about Matt10:28 that you are calling grave?

Is it the same place where Jesus said his angels will take all offenders to in Matt13:42,50 where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth?

In the words of Jesus in Mark 9:43 he advised dat ppl take off anything even on their that will take dem to hell and he described it as an everlasting fire, how do u call dat tge grave?

According to Matt25:41 Jesus will say to some people to depart into everlasting fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels, how is dat the grave? Is it the grave that will also be the final judgment of the devil and his angels?
Well according to the very words of Jesus, hell is an everlasting fire and you making it look like the grave is wat i do not understand, are all the Apostles in in hell right now according to u?

removetheturban:
Thanks.
Well, the Cross is an idol and part of the things that the Bible asked us to avoid 1 Corinthians 10:14. The identifying mark of Christianity is love and not a Cross John 13:35.
Cross is not the interpretation of the Greek word Stauros on which Jesus died. Jesus died on STAUROS, a stake/pole/tree and not a Cross. You may look it up. Cross is a heretic pagan symbol incorporated into Christianity by the same pagan who introduced the Trinity doctrine in 325 CE during the council of Nicaea.
Even your world class Bible can attest to that. King James Bible Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
That is why I ask, do you even read your own Bible before pointing fingers? Would you call the above a "mistake"?
Our Bible is not the only to properly that word, a plethora of Bibles do and some are now beginning to embrace the truth by editing their Bibles. This is a move to distance themselves from the 55 educated men that are full of mistakes LOL.
You can see how the KJB failed it. Too many captains wrecked that ship. 55 educated puritans wrote cross in a verse, move over to another verse and wrote tree. I don’t know what brand of whiskey they were high on but it was indeed the best of its kind.
King James Bible Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Even if we did, the sense still remains the same. It all boils down to the common grave of man. Our Bible is written in modern English and grave is a very fitting word to use when translating those Hebrew and Greek words.
For the sake of ‘my personal argument’ (do not quote the JW. JW books also use the word hell and refer to it as the common grave), the origin of the word hell is from a Germanic myth. Therefore, myth and Christianity do not sail in the same ship. The word is misused today and used to instil fear in people.
Nevertheless, hell is simply the common grave. Our books are written in plain and simple English or other languages.

Exactly the same reason why King James Bible and many other translations added it at Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the ‘other’ apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
In Colossians 1:16, the subsequent verses explain the contextual implication of verse 16. Every Bible has its translated in accordance to its own understanding. Saying “the bartender served Nigerian present in the room”. That statement is open to one’s own understanding. Did the bartender serve himself? That is left for each one to decide. Saying ‘the bartender served other Nigerians present in the room’. The latter sentence might give the reader better understanding.
Let us narrow it down to the Bible verse proper. If we say that Jesus created all things, does it include Jesus himself? Is he part of ALL? It is left for you to decide. The inclusion of other is amplification in the sense of the translation. This is clearly visible in all translations of the Bible.

salvation101:

ok but u agree that more than a single God is involved? Or could Yahweh av been talking to his own self?

Firstly, are you scared to pronounce Jehovah? LOL
The Bible made it clear that to Jehovah the glory of all creation belongs. He said that he is “pleased’ to have his fullness dwell in Jesus. It was his will and by his power that all was created THROUGH Jesus who he created as the firstborn of his works.

Jesus was also called a God and critical look at the some Bible verse you will discover that the same Jehovah MADE Moses a 'God' to Pharoah. Moses is said to deliver the people of Israel from Egypt but in the real sense, it was Jehovah who did it.

Let me reverse the table. How many Gods delivered the Israelites from Egypt?

I am sure that your answer will not embody the same logic embedded in your question.

To answer your question, which is a bait, it is an emphatic YES.

Moreover, 1 Corinthians 8:5 says that there are many ‘gods’ in the heaven. Also, 2 Corinthians 4:4 that calls Satan "god"
So, if we drag the argument (in our image) toward that direction, standing on the Greek word Theos as a pedestal, you will abandon your question and run. Or, you will end up saying that it was a mistake just as you discredited the work of 55 ‘educated’ Puritans by calling it a mistake.

salvation101:
If u say God created everything through Jesus, then was Jesus actively involved in the creation or not?

Evidently, Jesus was involved in the works of creation.

How many mighty God are there according to ur Bible?
You mean God was talking to himself? So he also talked to himself dat he should go to the tower of babel to confound the language of men? Interesting. So is Jehova omnipotent? Omniscient? Omnipresent? Are u suggesting that the world wasn't created by Jehova alone? Cos if u agree dat Jesus assisted him, den u also agree dat he needed assistance how could an omnipotent God need assistance?
Satan was called the "god of this world"
Paul was called a god falsely wch he quickly denied

So do u put Jesus in d same pedestal with satan? Tell me anywhere in scripture dat gives u an hint dat Satan assisted Jehova in creation. Or where Satan was referred to as mighty God

removetheturban:

Firstly, are you scared to pronounce Jehovah? LOL
The Bible made it clear that to Jehovah the glory of all creation belongs. He said that he is “pleased’ to have his fullness dwell in Jesus. It was his will and by his power that all was created THROUGH Jesus who he created as the firstborn of his works.

Jesus was also called a God and critical look at the some Bible verse you will discover that the same Jehovah MADE Moses a 'God' to Pharoah. Moses is said to deliver the people of Israel from Egypt but in the real sense, it was Jehovah who did it.

Let me reverse the table. How many Gods delivered the Israelites from Egypt?

I am sure that your answer will not embody the same logic embedded in your question.

To answer your question, which is a bait, it is an emphatic YES.

Moreover, 1 Corinthians 8:5 says that there are many ‘gods’ in the heaven. Also, 2 Corinthians 4:4 that calls Satan "god"
So, if we drag the argument (in our image) toward that direction, standing on the Greek word Theos as a pedestal, you will abandon your question and run. Or, you will end up saying that it was a mistake just as you discredited the work of 55 ‘educated’ Puritans by calling it a mistake.

Evidently, Jesus was involved in the works of creation.

salvation101:
You were making sense until you said cross came to being in 325ce, are u unaware that both the greek nd Romans borrowed it from the Phoenicians as a the torture instrument for their worst criminals? Are u also denying the fact that Nero crucified alot of the apostles on the cross? It is on historical record that Apostle peter refused refused to be crucified on an upright cross cos he said he was not worthy to die the same way Jesus did?

Okay, let us use your logic. “The Greeks and Romans borrowed it”.
Are you Greek? NO! Are you Roman? NO! Did the first century Christians borrow it? NO! Were the borrowers Christians? NO! Who are you following?
Upright Cross?? This is a newly introduced cross, yeah? You just might have invented something new like the 55 educated Puritans invented 1 John 5:7. Can you educate me on what you mean by upright cross? Can a Cross be upright? Can you provide the Greek word for ‘upright Cross’? Do your three best Bible versions support this and can you quote them here? Do you think that your thought is in line with Pentecostal doctrines?
Was Jesus killed according to the Roman/Greek tradition or the Jewish tradition?
The revelation in all these is that you do not pay strict heed to the prophetical lines. You believe Jesus’ Death happened by chance. Your mind is narrowed to the prophecy of Isaiah. Jesus death was planned right from the very beginning when Adam sinned against Jehovah. Jehovah quickly made arrangement for Jesus to come.
Here I am, send me! Do you know that famous and inspiring statement?

salvation101:
Paul the Apostle said he only glories in the cross of Jesus in Gal 6:14 the greek word for the cross is stauros,

My dear, you are so lucky that on this forum one can disguise under any Moniker. If not, the entire community of Pentecostals would have disassociated themselves from you. Saying that the Greek word for Cross is Stauros is an aberration.
Stauros means a Stake(/pole/tree)

salvation101:
Its amazing how u run back to same Bible u condemn weneva it agrees to ur bias. The greek word xulon translated as tree is the same word for wood and where did anyone deny dat Jesus was crucified on a wooden cross?

I quote it to bring the message home to you. If I had quoted the NWT, you would have disparaged it. It is good that it is brought home to you but we will just pretend that we are oblivious to your skewed reaction. I have been quoting from my Bible from the beginning, but since you started questioning the veracity of the NWT, I decided to use the ones that you approve of.
On the other hand, if the Greek word Xulon means a tree, was Xulon found in the Bible manuscript? Was it the choice word used by the Bible writers? What was the choice word? Stauros! Apart from equivocation, what import does xulon bring to the topic apart?

salvation101:

Now about hell meaning grave, wat do u make of Jesus parable of the rich man and Lazarus?

I am glad that you referred to that as what it is, a parable. It is a ‘moral’ lesson and not a literal experience. Jesus also gave many other parables that when taken literally, we will miss the point. Relatively to the parable of the servants given the minas, you would not say that Jesus literally gave you money to do transactions. And if you say it is ‘knowledge’, what, then, happens to the grace? How do you justify the thief given the grace on the stake?
Therefore, this parable of the rich man and Lazarus needs to be taken with a dose of understanding to get the moral sense out of it. The rich man dwelling in Hades represents the spiritual degradation now experienced by the Pharisees. They now "thirst" for even a drop of the spiritual waters they had previously (Amos 8:11). The fiery torment experienced by the rich man represented Jesus' messages of fiery judgment proclaimed by Jesus' disciples that tormented these religious leaders day and night (Acts 4:1,2; 5:17, 18; 7:54).
This is no way indicates a literal fiery torment of the soul that you believe in and as a matter of fact your belief contrasts Ezekiel 18:20 which says that a soul that sins will die. Also, Ecclesiastes 9:5 says that our thoughts and memories perish when we die. How logical can it be for someone who is dead in hell to beckon to someone in heaven for water constantly? Do the dead drink water? Is there water in heaven? Do angels drink water? What does Abraham’s bosom mean and where is it? Is it heaven or on earth?

salvation101:

Psalm19:17 attested to the fact that hell is a place for the wicked and all who forget God. Is dat the same grave u r talking about?

Are you serious? Which Bible told you that? You can return the Bible to the 55 educated fabricators because that verse is not in the Holy Scriptures give to us by God.

salvation101:

Was it the same place Jesus talked about Matt10:28 that you are calling grave?

Matthew 10:28 clearly indicates one’s right or choice to live. In Matthew 10:39 Jesus went further to explain verse 28 saying that if we lose our life on account of his name, we will find it. Someone whose life is taking by force or cut short did not have his will or his choice to live taken from him. Only Jehovah has the right to completely annihilate someone. Man, in effect only came to be called a living soul when the breath of air was given him. Soul is also referred to as life or the body. According to the Bible book of Genesis, it says that the man became a living ‘soul’. So if you go by your logic, the man was given the breath but not given a soul. The breath and the body make him a LIVING soul. Once the breath is taken out, the Bible book of Genesis says that he returns to the dust.
The bible says that the dead are in the memory of Jehovah hence the promise of resurrection. This is indeed a very broad topic and I am only brushing the surface. In all ramifications, hell does not indicate an eternal place of torment because even Jesus went there for 3 days and he did not tell us of any torment happening there. The Bible says that the wicked will be forgotten and will perish like manure upon the surface of the earth, and not linger in a fiery hell burning from a ‘chemical reaction’ (fire).
In English, we say “someone has (no) soul. What does that mean? Some may explain soul as a quality of expression that touches our deepest relationship to the very essence of something. “I love you with ALL my soul; he is a lost soul; it pierced my soul; he sold his soul to the devil etc. These are all common expressions used to portray a similar sense as did Jesus.

salvation101:
Is it the same place where Jesus said his angels will take all offenders to in Matt13:42,50 where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth?
In the words of Jesus in Mark 9:43 he advised dat ppl take off anything even on their that will take dem to hell and he described it as an everlasting fire, how do u call dat tge grave?
According to Matt25:41 Jesus will say to some people to depart into everlasting fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels, how is dat the grave? Is it the grave that will also be the final judgment of the devil and his angels?
Well according to the very words of Jesus, hell is an everlasting fire and you making it look like the grave is wat i do not understand, are all the Apostles in in hell right now according to u?

Well, hell is a common grave but your translation is depriving you of understanding. The KJB has such an illustrious grip on you. Do you agree that Jesus went to hell? If Jesus went to hell, did he gnash his teeth there? Do good people also go to hell? Where is the location of hell?
How can you justify Romans 6:7 For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin?

h
Who were those dat crucified Jesus? Was pilate a jew? Were the soldiers jew? If the standard Roman method of crucifying criminals was by nailing to a cross then why does it sound so strange to u dat u av to whip up empty sentiments? U asked if i was greek or Roman, is Jehova ur native language? Funny thing is u claimed to be knowledgeable in history but wen it cones to matters such as dis u pretend to be ignorant. U want to tell me u didn't know dat dis was the Roman empire? The Greeks used the cross, the Roman empire used it but you had to lie that cross came into being in 300CE ..

In ur usual manner u r looking for upright cross in the Bible wen i told u its recorded in history, why don't u do a Google search nd save ursef some embrassment. It goes to show u don't really know as much as u claimed, i overrated you.

So according to ur Bible it was the jews dat executed Jesus?oops wat av u been learning? In case dey didn't teach you, the jews arrested Jesus and took him to the Roman government nd charged him with false allegations, pilate sent the case to Herod who was d Jewish king who sent back thr matter to pilate. Den pilate executed him to please the jews.
If u still claim dat Jesus was killed by Jewish tradition, why don't u show me anywhere in scripture (old testament) under d law where nailing on the cross was prescribed as a means of execution..if the jews had killed Jesus it would av mostly likely been by stoning till death den his corpse will be hang to serve as deterrent to others. Jesus and the two thieves were alive on the cross and there was no where the bible mentioned dey were stoned.

Why don't u use a valid Greek online dictionary(dat has nothing to do with watch tower) to look for the meaning of the word Starous nd send the screenshot here lets see d ignorant one.

So u didn't see the greek word xulon in the manuscript (gal3:13, Acts5:30, Acts10:39, Act13:29, 1peter 2:24)? Naa, u couldn't av just said dat so it was starous u saw in the manuscript let me forgive you, am sure u didn't check dat out. Now please, check the original manuscript and see it its xulon or startous u see, be honest to tell us wat u found.
The word xulon means wood. 1cor3:12. The word xulon was used wch was translated as wood
....
.... D remaining of my reply will be in d next post

removetheturban:

Okay, let us use your logic. “The Greeks and Romans borrowed it”.
Are you Greek? NO! Are you Roman? NO! Did the first century Christians borrow it? NO! Were the borrowers Christians? NO! Who are you following?
Upright Cross?? This is a newly introduced cross, yeah? You just might have invented something new like the 55 educated Puritans invented 1 John 5:7. Can you educate me on what you mean by upright cross? Can a Cross be upright? Can you provide the Greek word for ‘upright Cross’? Do your three best Bible versions support this and can you quote them here? Do you think that your thought is in line with Pentecostal doctrines?
Was Jesus killed according to the Roman/Greek tradition or the Jewish tradition?
The revelation in all these is that you do not pay strict heed to the prophetical lines. You believe Jesus’ Death happened by chance. Your mind is narrowed to the prophecy of Isaiah. Jesus death was planned right from the very beginning when Adam sinned against Jehovah. Jehovah quickly made arrangement for Jesus to come.
Here I am, send me! Do you know that famous and inspiring statement?
My dear, you are so lucky that on this forum one can disguise under any Moniker. If not, the entire community of Pentecostals would have disassociated themselves from you. Saying that the Greek word for Cross is Stauros is an aberration.
Stauros means a Stake(/pole/tree)
I quote it to bring the message home to you. If I had quoted the NWT, you would have disparaged it. It is good that it is brought home to you but we will just pretend that we are oblivious to your skewed reaction. I have been quoting from my Bible from the beginning, but since you started questioning the veracity of the NWT, I decided to use the ones that you approve of.
On the other hand, if the Greek word Xulon means a tree, was Xulon found in the Bible manuscript? Was it the choice word used by the Bible writers? What was the choice word? Stauros! Apart from equivocation, what import does xulon bring to the topic apart?
I am glad that you referred to that as what it is, a parable. It is a ‘moral’ lesson and not a literal experience. Jesus also gave many other parables that when taken literally, we will miss the point. Relatively to the parable of the servants given the minas, you would not say that Jesus literally gave you money to do transactions. And if you say it is ‘knowledge’, what, then, happens to the grace? How do you justify the thief given the grace on the stake?
Therefore, this parable of the rich man and Lazarus needs to be taken with a dose of understanding to get the moral sense out of it. The rich man dwelling in Hades represents the spiritual degradation now experienced by the Pharisees. They now "thirst" for even a drop of the spiritual waters they had previously (Amos 8:11). The fiery torment experienced by the rich man represented Jesus' messages of fiery judgment proclaimed by Jesus' disciples that tormented these religious leaders day and night (Acts 4:1,2; 5:17, 18; 7:54).
This is no way indicates a literal fiery torment of the soul that you believe in and as a matter of fact your belief contrasts Ezekiel 18:20 which says that a soul that sins will die. Also, Ecclesiastes 9:5 says that our thoughts and memories perish when we die. How logical can it be for someone who is dead in hell to beckon to someone in heaven for water constantly? Do the dead drink water? Is there water in heaven? Do angels drink water? What does Abraham’s bosom mean and where is it? Is it heaven or on earth?
Are you serious? Which Bible told you that? You can return the Bible to the 55 educated fabricators because that verse is not in the Holy Scriptures give to us by God. Matthew 10:28 clearly indicates one’s right or choice to live. In Matthew 10:39 Jesus went further to explain verse 28 saying that if we lose our life on account of his name, we will find it. Someone whose life is taking by force or cut short did not have his will or his choice to live taken from him. Only Jehovah has the right to completely annihilate someone. Man, in effect only came to be called a living soul when the breath of air was given him. Soul is also referred to as life or the body. According to the Bible book of Genesis, it says that the man became a living ‘soul’. So if you go by your logic, the man was given the breath but not given a soul. The breath and the body make him a LIVING soul. Once the breath is taken out, the Bible book of Genesis says that he returns to the dust.
The bible says that the dead are in the memory of Jehovah hence the promise of resurrection. This is indeed a very broad topic and I am only brushing the surface. In all ramifications, hell does not indicate an eternal place of torment because even Jesus went there for 3 days and he did not tell us of any torment happening there. The Bible says that the wicked will be forgotten and will perish like manure upon the surface of the earth, and not linger in a fiery hell burning from a ‘chemical reaction’ (fire).
In English, we say “someone has (no) soul. What does that mean? Some may explain soul as a quality of expression that touches our deepest relationship to the very essence of something. “I love you with ALL my soul; he is a lost soul; it pierced my soul; he sold his soul to the devil etc. These are all common expressions used to portray a similar sense as did Jesus.
Well, hell is a common grave but your translation is depriving you of understanding. The KJB has such an illustrious grip on you. Do you agree that Jesus went to hell? If Jesus went to hell, did he gnash his teeth there? Do good people also go to hell? Where is the location of hell?
How can you justify Romans 6:7 For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin?

You are right in saying that because Jesus himself was created by Jehovah and Jehovah is pleased to have his fullness (his qualities) dwell in Jesus. Seeing that we come FROM Jehovah THOUGH Jesus, your question is greeted with an affirmative nod.

Jesus is the image of God and the firstborn of all of Jehovah's creation. He created other sons in heaven who are also gods. Even the disobedient sons are gods as well. When you are referring to 'spirit' there is no other way to implore the use of 'image' apart from qualities. The definition of 'image' does not allow room for your kind of logic because God is a spirit. What is the definition of 'image'? Can a spirit have an image? It is illogical for you to attempt to egg on such heretic doctrine.

When Stephen was given the privilege to a vision of heaven, he saw two entities. He saw Jesus whom he recognised him. But to Jehovah, he lucidly said that he saw ONLY the glory of Jehovah. This corroborates what the Bible says that no man could ever see Jehovah's face and live.
The image of God is the innate qualities that we possess and the privilege to make decisions (between good and bad).

Genesis 3:22 Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad..."

The above is Jehovah's expression and that is the truth. What makes Man become like them from the Bible verse above? KNOWLEDGE OF GOD AND BAD. Not the anatomy or form. Think out of your old box. You are still stuck in the thought of moulded dust and sand. We are talking about spirit persons here.

This is absolutely clear to anyone free from external influences. Baiting someone with a cheap question when you know the Bible's message is seedy. The image of God is our innate qualities and decision to decide what is good for us. Satan took the left way he also had the privilege to decide as well as his angels that he deceived and many of us today are doing the same

salvation101:
ok. So it is safe to say Man was created in Jesus image since Jesus and God had same image?

salvation101:
h
Who were those dat crucified Jesus? Was pilate a jew? Were the soldiers jew?

Jesus was not crucified to begin with, he was impaled on a stake. Secondly, have you ever read the account of Jesus death at all?

Luke 23:25 "He released the man whom they were demanding, who had been thrown into prison for sedition and murder, but he surrendered Jesus to their will".

Jesus was killed according to the tradition of the Jews Deuteronomy 21:23; Galatians 3:13; Acts 5:30. Are you still arguing about it? He was killed like a thief. This was the same sentence given to a robber in the Mosaic law. You can tell by the two other persons killed on that same day.

Do you still have doubt?

salvation101:
If the standard Roman method of crucifying criminals was by nailing to a cross then why does it sound so strange to u dat u av to whip up empty sentiments?

Jesus was impaled on a stake meaning "STAUROS".
Let me pray the prayer of Tyndale for God to please open your eyes and deliver you from those 55 educated Puritans.

Please, I am begging, just do a little personal research on this.

removetheturban:
Jesus was impaled on a stake meaning "STAUROS".
Let me pray the prayer of Tyndale for God to please open your eyes and deliver you from those 55 educated Puritans.

Please, I am begging, just do a little personal research on this.

guess u did some research and were embarrassed by ur findings

salvation101:
U asked if i was greek or Roman, is Jehova ur native language? Funny thing is u claimed to be knowledgeable in history but wen it cones to matters such as dis u pretend to be ignorant. U want to tell me u didn't know dat dis was the Roman empire? The Greeks used the cross, the Roman empire used it but you had to lie that cross came into being in 300CE ..

I am not knowledgeable, to begin. The knowledgeable are your revered 55 educated Puritans who you said make mistakes while copying a stolen material.

All I am doing is pleading for you to do just a little research.

If the Greek are the ones with such tradition (to impale robbers)? Then how did the Jewish and Roman traditions get into the book of Deuteronomy written by Moses in 1473 BCE? Did you know that the difference in time was almost 1500 years apart before Greece became a thing? And almost 2000 years before Rome became a thing?

This has been a tradition of the Jews for thousands of years before the Romans and Greeks came to the show. So, your argument defies logic. The Jews continued their traditions even amidst the Roman influences.

I guess your thought is that they all lived together both Greeks and Romans and Jews in the same city, yeah?

Well, not all. Jerusalem was home to most Jews and the Romans or Hellenistic Greeks and Romans were on their way but. The Jews were only paying taxes to Ceasar which the scribes and tax collector were in charge of.

The Roman governor did not 'control' the traditions of the Jews. He had no time for that.

I am still saying the same thing I have been saying for years. You should be embarrassed yourself not me. Stauros means stake (/pole/tree) and not cross. Even your KJB said it. I do not need to do any research on Cross. It is a very frequent subject JW encounter. You just gave yourself to KJB on for a penny and the 55 men are juggling you like a dollar pet. Just do a little research and you will come up with another mistake made by the 55 educated Puritans.

salvation101:
guess u did some research and were embarrassed by ur findings