removetheturban:
You will always find what you seek. That is an old man's saying and I know that you can fathom that. No one left you asking questions. Jesus said that an old wineskin cannot be used for a new wineskin. You mental thought cannot accommodate the truth about the JW because it fits into Jesus' teaching. Your suppositions will remain with you until you decide to cleanse yourself. To the JW, no man hurt, no man down.
Saul actually thought that he knew much about the first century Christians
We do not receive blood and we do not give it either. The Bible asked us to abstain from consuming blood.

If the doctor asked you to abstain from alcohol, would it be safe to consume it intravenously?

If Jesus had received a blood transfusion, would you say that you were saved by his blood?

Since you are one of our oppressors, are you part of the people referred to in Isaiah 49:26 I will make those who mistreat you ...become drunk with their own blood... ?

The bible didn't ask you not to consume blood your watchtower organization said so
The bible says don't eat blood of animals you kill for food and sacrifice
The bible in acts says abstain from blood. Simple. Don't add consumption cos
Another assumption made by your illiterate leaders. Know nothing about blood transfusion yet they tell their followers not to take it because they assumed.

All these because you don't want to be slaughtered with alongside non jws in Armageddon.

though it would take a lot of time to start writing on your last post so let's take it one after another ..

romans 1:25

would you say that Paul included himself among those!!!!??

yet it's still out of context or do you affirm that Christ is a creature ..,

since you quoted rom1:25 which talked about giving glory to the creature...

so 1) is Christ a creature

anyway this is the explanation of ROM 1:25 in context

Romans 1:25

Who changed the truth of God into a lie
,.... Not the truth of the Gospel, which they were unacquainted with; but that which might be known of God as true, and was known of them by the light of nature; or the true God himself, whom they "changed into a lie"; by ascribing to false deities, which were lying vanities, those things which were known of God; and by worshipping them instead of him: for they
worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator; or "above him" or "against him", in opposition to him, or "besides him", others along with him; or neglecting him, and not worshipping him at all; which is aggravated in that what they worshipped was a creature, either of their own, or of God's making, and whom they neglected was the Creator of them:
who is blessed for ever, Amen; is blessed in himself, and the fountain of all blessedness to his creatures; which is so glaring a truth, that everyone ought to say and set his "Amen" to it

So I ask you?? Was that verse about Christians ?

removetheturban:
No one called the KJB a spurious version. We ended on the spurious verses which you can check using other Bible translations as well. No pastor is teaching us, we have the Bible with us. Pray and research and with Jehovah's Holy Spirit we can understand the scriptures
I do appreciate that you are following up on this topic. May God bless your heart.

But the seven old men in new York whose bible interpretation is law nko?
The elders that tell people to narrate how they had sex in judicial committees what are they?
Here on social media you will tell people you don't have clergy but in law courts you people will claim clergy. 2 faced religion. #hypocrisy

You are an incendiary used in a smear campaign. Whoever gave you all these blasphemous suppositions about the JW has the original password to your mind control software. I felt sorry for how low you go to source for sham articles to smear the JW. None of your links so far holds any credible authority.
It is irrefutable that the JW NEVER prohibited organ transplants. And there was never a danger of anyone being disfellowshipped for accepting an organ transplant. ...

There is not a single article written in our literature which stated that avoiding transplants was a doctrine for Jehovah's Witnesses or forbidden as a personal choice. It was always clear that it was a conscience matter.

Your move is a personal vendetta against us. The lies that you tell, you will receive your reward for them but I pray you repent of your ways and serve Jehovah. If I asked you for evidence you will run to an unrefined source published by a sham blogger with the same mental goal.

salvation101:
wat do u call misconceptions? Are u saying u guys don't refuse blood transfusion or dat there wasno time wen u refused vaccination and organ transplant?.. I av engaged in long discussions with ur members dat leave me asking questions and making research nd some of the things i find aren't good

Ferisidowu:
though it would take a lot of time to start writing on your last post so let's take it one after another ..
romans 1:25
would you say that Paul included himself among those!!!!??

You are funny. That question defies logic. What really do you want to ask? If Paul the writer included himself in the list of the ungodly that he was inspired to write about? Are you trying to insinuate yourself into Paul's position or? Paul wrote a letter to the Romans and that letter makes up our Bible today. What it means is, the message is not for the Romans as it once was but now you and I. If you are not included you must read it as a reminder or use it to encourage others. You can only choose to opt out of that clan of ungodly by presenting yourself worthy or doing fine works. The message was for all of us to read and learn from because it was inspired by God to make us competent.

Paul never rendered worship to Jesus but he wrote in his books that the head of Jesus is Jehovah. he also told us that Jesus is a mediator between us and Jehovah (God). He wrote many similar verses to complement Romans 1:25. Paul knew for sure the difference between Jesus and Jehovah and his books are very vital in exposing the Trinity for the fraud that it is.

removetheturban:
You are an incendiary used in a smear campaign. Whoever gave you all these blasphemous suppositions about the JW has the original password to your mind control software. I felt sorry for how low you go to source for sham articles to smear up. None of your links so far holds any credible authority.
It is irrefutable that the JW NEVER prohibited organ transplants. And there was never a danger of anyone being disfellowshipped for accepting an organ transplant. ...

There is not a single article written in our literature which stated that avoiding transplants was a doctrine for Jehovah's Witnesses or forbidden as a personal choice. It was always clear that it was a conscience matter.

Your move is a personal vendetta against us. The lies that you tell, you will receive your reward for them but I pray you repent of your ways and serve Jehovah. If I ask you for evidence you will run to an unrefined source published by a sham blogger with the same mental goal.

This one doesn't know that his organization once banned organ transplant and vaccination for 27 and 13 years respectively. What a pity. Did they hide it from you people.
Changing doctrine every time. Do you know from 1945 to 1998 your organization banned blood fractions components? I know they accept it now.
Everybody wants to smear you when they bring up your past or old beliefs. I think your Jehovah is not sure of his words. He likes adjusting them

removetheturban:
You are funny. That question defies logic. What really do you want to ask? If Paul the writer included himself in the list of the ungodly that he was inspired to write about? Are you trying to insinuate yourself into Paul's position or? Paul wrote a letter to the Romans and that letter makes up our Bible today. What it means is, the message is not for the Romans as it once was but now you and I. If you are not included you must read it as a reminder or use it to encourage others. You can only choose to opt out of that clan of ungodly by presenting yourself worthy or doing fine works. The message was for all of us to read and learn from because it was inspired by God to make us competent.

Paul never rendered worship to Jesus but he wrote in his books that the head of Jesus is Jehovah. he also told us that Jesus is a mediator between us and Jehovah (God). He wrote many similar verses to complement Romans 1:25. Paul knew for sure the difference between Jesus and Jehovah and his books are very vital in exposing the Trinity for the fraud that it is.

lolz yeah it defies logic ... GOD DEFIES LOGIC TOO HIS PLAN OF SALVATION DEFIES LOGIC ... YOUR ARGUMENT CONCERNING ROM 1:25 IS OUT OF CONTEXT

HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE GENTILES WHO WERE WITHOUT GOD ...

yet I asked a question which you never answered
I also proved it that 1) your rendering 1:25 to Christians isn't true ... he was talking about the state of gentiles before and also without the Gospel

2) even if we agree to ur argument on this yet do you now say that Christ is a creature?? definitely not. was Christ made God forbid....

if you would use 1:25 put it into context for me .....

or prove that the Messiah is a creature

removetheturban:
You are an incendiary used in a smear campaign. Whoever gave you all these blasphemous suppositions about the JW has the original password to your mind control software. I felt sorry for how low you go to source for sham articles to smear up. None of your links so far holds any credible authority.
It is irrefutable that the JW NEVER prohibited organ transplants. And there was never a danger of anyone being disfellowshipped for accepting an organ transplant. ...

There is not a single article written in our literature which stated that avoiding transplants was a doctrine for Jehovah's Witnesses or forbidden as a personal choice. It was always clear that it was a conscience matter.

Your move is a personal vendetta against us. The lies that you tell, you will receive your reward for them but I pray you repent of your ways and serve Jehovah. If I ask you for evidence you will run to an unrefined source published by a sham blogger with the same mental goal.

the more u try to lie the more revelations my dear ... Am coming back to the vaccine and organ transplant issue.. Did ur organization not say dat the 1914 generation of witnesses won't pass before the world will end? Av urteachers also kept dat from u?

Back to the vaccine topic nd organ transplant sturv, i will help u
Organ Transplants are cannibalistic!

“Is there any Scriptural objection to donating one’s body for use in medical research or to accepting organs for transplant from such a source? – W. L., U.S.A.

…removing the organ and replacing it directly with an organ from another human, this is simply a shortcut. Those who submit to such operations are thus living off the flesh of another human. That is cannibalistic. However, in allowing man to eat animal flesh Jehovah God did not grant permission for humans to try to perpetuate their lives by cannibalistically taking into their bodies human flesh, whether chewed or in the form of whole organs or body parts taken from others.”
– The Watchtower 11/15/1967 p. 702


Vaccines are useless, poisonous, a violation of God’s law, and a tool of the Devil.

“Thinking people would rather have smallpox than vaccination, because the latter sows the seed of syphilis, cancers, eczema, erysipelas, scrofula, consumption, even leprosy and many other loathsome affections. Hence the practice of vaccination is a crime, an outrage and a delusion.”
– The Golden Age May 1, 1929 page 502

Hairyrapunzel:

This one doesn't know that his organization once banned organ transplant and vaccination for 27 and 13 years respectively. What a pity. Did they hide it from you people.
Changing doctrine every time. Do you know from 1945 to 1998 your organization banned blood fractions components? I know they accept it now.
Everybody wants to smear you when they bring up your past or old beliefs. I think your Jehovah is not sure of his words. He likes adjusting them

heheheheh.. Wateva dey are worshiping must be really confused dey keep banning and allowing.. In d course of dis, many life get lost

Ferisidowu:
though it would take a lot of time to start writing on your last post so let's take it one after another .. romans 1:25
would you say that Paul included himself among those!!!!??

Do you think that Paul wrote the book of Romans to the government of Rome? He wrote it to Christians and his letter was read in the congregation to ALL. It is an inspired letter for the congregation in Rome. Do not exclude yourself, bro. It is also for you to digest

Ferisidowu:

yet it's still out of context or do you affirm that Christ is a creature ..,

How can an inspired letter to the congregation in Rome be out of context to you? Colossians 1:15; Proverbs 8:22 assert that Jesus is a creation. Emphatically, I take side with the Bible.

Ferisidowu:

since you quoted rom1:25 which talked about giving glory to the creature...
so 1) is Christ a creature

Jesus was a creation, according to the Bible

Ferisidowu:

anyway this is the explanation of ROM 1:25 in context
Romans 1:25

Who changed the truth of God into a lie
,.... Not the truth of the Gospel, which they were unacquainted with; but that which might be known of God as true, and was known of them by the light of nature; or the true God himself, whom they "changed into a lie"; by ascribing to false deities, which were lying vanities, those things which were known of God; and by worshipping them instead of him: for they
worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator; or "above him" or "against him", in opposition to him, or "besides him", others along with him; or neglecting him, and not worshipping him at all; which is aggravated in that what they worshipped was a creature, either of their own, or of God's making, and whom they neglected was the Creator of them:
who is blessed for ever, Amen; is blessed in himself, and the fountain of all blessedness to his creatures; which is so glaring a truth, that everyone ought to say and set his "Amen" to it

So I ask you?? Was that verse about Christians ?

The verse was for the Christians in Rome. The letter was written to the Christians in Rome. I doubt if you read the chapter at all. Who was it for, the Jews? What business does light have with darkness? Do you think Paul was writing to the Governor in Rome? Have you read about the makeup of the congregation in Rome? The Romans were living in debauchery and lewd misery. The congregation was also a gathering sheep and wolves at the time hence the letters of admonition.

Who do you think that Paul was referring to?

removetheturban:
Do you think that Paul wrote the book of Romans to the government of Rome? He wrote it to Christians and his letter was read in the congregation to ALL. It is an inspired letter for the congregation in Rome. Do not exclude yourself, bro. It is also for you to digest
How can an inspired letter to the congregation in Rome be out of context to you? Colossians 1:15; Proverbs 8:22 assert that Jesus is a creation. Emphatically, I take side with the Bible.
Jesus was a creation, according to the Bible
The verse was for the Christians in Rome. The letter was written to the Christians in Rome. I doubt if you read the chapter at all. Who was it for, the Jews? What business does light have with darkness? Do you think Paul was writing to the Governor in Rome? Have you read about the makeup of the congregation in Rome? The Romans were living in debauchery and lewd misery. The congregation was also a gathering sheep and wolves at the time hence the letters of admonition.

Who do you think that Paul was referring to?

lolz ... now I'll start from the easiest

if Christ was a creation who created him? how do you relate it with john 1:3

You may act smart but you need to BE smart. Post the entire article here for us to read. It is a public forum, post it! What you posted there is an excerpt from two separate articles with points to favor your argument and from this, a wise person cannot make a conclusion. Picking those lines out of an article without reading the entire sense or article is a smear plot.
Post the entire article for us to read the conclusion.

Do not forget to answer my question. You are yet to mention the name of a Church founded on a perfect foundation as you said. I see how you skew on that one but you are fast to respond to others issues.
We will get there. I am only in the defence.

salvation101:
the more u try to lie the more revelations my dear ... Am coming back to the vaccine and organ transplant issue.. Did ur organization not say dat the 1914 generation of witnesses won't pass before the world will end? Av urteachers also kept dat from u?

Back to the vaccine topic nd organ transplant sturv, i will help u
Organ Transplants are cannibalistic!

“Is there any Scriptural objection to donating one’s body for use in medical research or to accepting organs for transplant from such a source? – W. L., U.S.A.

…removing the organ and replacing it directly with an organ from another human, this is simply a shortcut. Those who submit to such operations are thus living off the flesh of another human. That is cannibalistic. However, in allowing man to eat animal flesh Jehovah God did not grant permission for humans to try to perpetuate their lives by cannibalistically taking into their bodies human flesh, whether chewed or in the form of whole organs or body parts taken from others.”
– The Watchtower 11/15/1967 p. 702


Vaccines are useless, poisonous, a violation of God’s law, and a tool of the Devil.

“Thinking people would rather have smallpox than vaccination, because the latter sows the seed of syphilis, cancers, eczema, erysipelas, scrofula, consumption, even leprosy and many other loathsome affections. Hence the practice of vaccination is a crime, an outrage and a delusion.”
– The Golden Age May 1, 1929 page 502

Ferisidowu:

lolz ... now I'll start from the easiest
if Christ was a creation who created him? how do you relate it with john 1:3

You can start from anywhere. The Bible made it clear that Jesus is the Beginning of Jehovah's ways (creations) and THROUGH him all was made.
Do you need an explanation for that? he is the firstborn of all creation and through him, all was created. What else do you want to get out of that?

and it seems that you just ignored the question that I asked you.

Ferisidowu:


lolz ... now I'll start from the easiest

if Christ was a creation who created him? how do you relate it with john 1:3

removetheturban:
You can start from anywhere. The Bible made it clear that Jesus is the Beginning of Jehovah's ways (creations) and THROUGH him all was made.
Do you need an explanation for that? he is the firstborn of all creation and through him, all was created. What else do you want to get out of that?

I already explained this check my earliest posts on this thread ... let me move it ... wait let me move it here.

You may post the article. I am waiting.

And I want to know the Church that you claim is built on perfect foundation

salvation101:
heheheheh.. Wateva dey are worshiping must be really confused dey keep banning and allowing.. In d course of dis, many life get lost

Were you taught in English? Can you differentiate between eat and consume?

Hairyrapunzel:

The bible didn't ask you not to consume blood your watchtower organization said so
The bible says don't eat blood of animals you kill for food and sacrifice
The bible in acts says abstain from blood. Simple. Don't add consumption cos
Another assumption made by your illiterate leaders. Know nothing about blood transfusion yet they tell their followers not to take it because they assumed.

All these because you don't want to be slaughtered with alongside non jws in Armageddon.

JOHN 5:25 ~ JESUS, THE SON OF GOD

Jehovah Witness: “All right but what about all the verses in the Bible, where Jesus is called the “Son” of God? If you’re the Son of God, surely you can’t be the eternal Almighty God.”

This is another common objection the jws bring up. They believe Jesus' title (“Son of God”) somehow means Jesus is inferior to God. Well, they’re mistaken. Let’s turn over to John 5:25.

Jesus is speaking here to some of His critics. He says:

John 5:25
“Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.”

Here in this verse, as you can see, Jesus referred to Himself as the Son of God. This is one of many places in the Gospels where Jesus is referred to with this title.

What did Jesus mean when He said He was “the Son of God”?

Was this a way of saying that He was less than God, as Jehovah’s Witnesses contend? Not at all. In fact it was actually a claim to deity (equality with God the Father).

Let’s examine the context by backing up a few verses and looking at verse 18. We’ll see that Jesus’ original listeners knew exactly what Jesus was saying. In John 5:18, John writes:

John 5:18
“Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, [Why?] because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father [implying that He was the Son of God], making Himself [What?] equal with God.”

Referring to God as His Father and Himself as the Son of God, as He did here in John 5:25 and elsewhere [e.g., John 3:16], was the equivalent of making Himself what? “Equal with God” the apostle John says.

Referring to God as His Father, referring to Himself as the Son of God, was the equivalent of making Himself “equal with God.”

Those listening to Him understood that a son is of the same nature, the same species, the same essence, as his father. And so they immediately understood what Jesus meant by referring to Himself as the Son of God. 'He's claiming to be equal with God!'

So this title “Son of God” actually helps to verify Jesus’ deity rather than undermine it.

This conclusion is absolutely shallow and it defies logic.
let me ask you. Matthew 3:17 whose voice was heard in heaven?

Ferisidowu:
JOHN 5:25 ~ JESUS, THE SON OF GOD

Jehovah Witness: “All right but what about all the verses in the Bible, where Jesus is called the “Son” of God? If you’re the Son of God, surely you can’t be the eternal Almighty God.”

This is another common objection the jws bring up. They believe Jesus' title (“Son of God”) somehow means Jesus is inferior to God. Well, they’re mistaken. Let’s turn over to John 5:25.

Jesus is speaking here to some of His critics. He says:

John 5:25
“Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.”

Here in this verse, as you can see, Jesus referred to Himself as the Son of God. This is one of many places in the Gospels where Jesus is referred to with this title.

What did Jesus mean when He said He was “the Son of God”?

Was this a way of saying that He was less than God, as Jehovah’s Witnesses contend? Not at all. In fact it was actually a claim to deity (equality with God the Father).

Let’s examine the context by backing up a few verses and looking at verse 18. We’ll see that Jesus’ original listeners knew exactly what Jesus was saying. In John 5:18, John writes:

John 5:18
“Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, [Why?] because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father [implying that He was the Son of God], making Himself [What?] equal with God.”

Referring to God as His Father and Himself as the Son of God, as He did here in John 5:25 and elsewhere [e.g., John 3:16], was the equivalent of making Himself what? “Equal with God” the apostle John says.

Referring to God as His Father, referring to Himself as the Son of God, was the equivalent of making Himself “equal with God.”

Those listening to Him understood that a son is of the same nature, the same species, the same essence, as his father. And so they immediately understood what Jesus meant by referring to Himself as the Son of God. 'He's claiming to be equal with God!'

So this title “Son of God” actually helps to verify Jesus’ deity rather than undermine it.

2) REVELATION 3:14 ~ JESUS, THE "BEGINNING" OF CREATION?

Here in Revelation 3:14, Jesus refers to Himself with a few different titles, but there’s one in particular the JW focus on. Let’s read what Jesus said...

Revelation 3:14
“And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, “These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God…”


Jehovah Witness: “Well, here we have another reference to the fact that Jesus had a beginning. Jesus calls himself the “Beginning of the creation of God.” Notice that! He says very plainly here that he is part of the creation of God. If Jesus had a beginning or if he is any part of the creation of God, he surely cannot be Almighty God.”

Well, how might we respond to this interpretation? Was Jesus saying He had a beginning, confirming He was a created creature? No.

The Greek word here for “Beginning” (Rev. 3:14) is the word “arche.” It’s the word from which we get our English word architect. It doesn’t imply in the slightest that Jesus had a beginning (as the JWs say).

Greek scholars say that this word (“arche”) can also be properly interpreted as:

• Origin
• Source
• Designer
• Supervisor
• First Cause
• Ruler

This is why God the Father can also refer to Himself with the very same word in Revelation 21:6! In fact, Revelation 21:6 is a great cross-reference to write in the margin of your Bible at Revelation 3:14. Notice what Revelation 21:6 says. I’ll start in v. 5 for context:

Revelation 21:5-6
5 “Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.” 6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning [arche] and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts.”

So, notice that, God the Father refers to Himself with the very same title, the arche, the Beginning.

So, back to the verse in question (Rev. 3:14); Jesus is not saying that He had a beginning or that He is the first thing that God made. He is saying that He is the One who began all of creation, that He is the designer, origin, the first cause, or ruler of all creation!

And this is exactly what other passages in the Bible teach about Jesus. For example, John writes in...

John 1:3
“All things came into being [How?] through Him.”

Through Jesus. He’s the designer. He’s the architect.

Speaking of all things coming into being through Jesus, a good question to ask Jehovah’s Witnesses is this: Is Jesus the creator?

Jehovah Witness: “Well, we believe Jesus is a creator in a sense. After God created Jesus, Jesus helped God create the other things.”

When a Jehovah’s Witness tells you this, you might them to Isaiah 44:24. Notice what it says:

Isaiah 44:24
“Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, the LORD [YHWH], am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens [How? With someone else’s help? No.] by Myself, and spreading out the earth [with help? No.] all alone."

If God created everything “all alone” as this passage (Isaiah 44:24) says and Jesus created “all things” (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17) you have to conclude that Jesus must be that God, the God of the Old Testament—Yahweh

This seems to be taking you the entire day to get your evidence. You used to be quicker than this. How about calling the anti-JW helpline?
Let me go for commercials. I will be back.
You must show me the Jehovah's witness article that totally condemns organ transplant and which compels the JW not to do organ transplant.
You will also show me evidence of the millions of JW that died from refusing organ transplant.
And show me evidence of JW disciplined for accepting organs transplant

salvation101:
heheheheh.. Wateva dey are worshiping must be really confused dey keep banning and allowing.. In d course of dis, many life get lost

is it a taboo to answer my questions?
Can you explain Ephesians 1:3 in line with your logic??

If Jesus referred to himself using different names in Revelation, how can you explain Revelation 1:1?

Acts 6:8 When Stephen looked up in the heaven, how many persons did he see?

John 1:1 was the word WITH God?

Mark 13:32 Why was Jesus unaware of the time of the end? If the father knows, is Jesus the father?

Ferisidowu:
2) REVELATION 3:14 ~ JESUS, THE "BEGINNING" OF CREATION?

Here in Revelation 3:14, Jesus refers to Himself with a few different titles, but there’s one in particular the JW focus on. Let’s read what Jesus said...

Revelation 3:14
“And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, “These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God…”


Jehovah Witness: “Well, here we have another reference to the fact that Jesus had a beginning. Jesus calls himself the “Beginning of the creation of God.” Notice that! He says very plainly here that he is part of the creation of God. If Jesus had a beginning or if he is any part of the creation of God, he surely cannot be Almighty God.”

Well, how might we respond to this interpretation? Was Jesus saying He had a beginning, confirming He was a created creature? No.

The Greek word here for “Beginning” (Rev. 3:14) is the word “arche.” It’s the word from which we get our English word architect. It doesn’t imply in the slightest that Jesus had a beginning (as the JWs say).

Greek scholars say that this word (“arche”) can also be properly interpreted as:

• Origin
• Source
• Designer
• Supervisor
• First Cause
• Ruler

This is why God the Father can also refer to Himself with the very same word in Revelation 21:6! In fact, Revelation 21:6 is a great cross-reference to write in the margin of your Bible at Revelation 3:14. Notice what Revelation 21:6 says. I’ll start in v. 5 for context:

Revelation 21:5-6
5 “Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.” 6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning [arche] and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts.”

So, notice that, God the Father refers to Himself with the very same title, the arche, the Beginning.

So, back to the verse in question (Rev. 3:14); Jesus is not saying that He had a beginning or that He is the first thing that God made. He is saying that He is the One who began all of creation, that He is the designer, origin, the first cause, or ruler of all creation!

And this is exactly what other passages in the Bible teach about Jesus. For example, John writes in...

John 1:3
“All things came into being [How?] through Him.”

Through Jesus. He’s the designer. He’s the architect.

Speaking of all things coming into being through Jesus, a good question to ask Jehovah’s Witnesses is this: Is Jesus the creator?

Jehovah Witness: “Well, we believe Jesus is a creator in a sense. After God created Jesus, Jesus helped God create the other things.”

When a Jehovah’s Witness tells you this, you might them to Isaiah 44:24. Notice what it says:

Isaiah 44:24
“Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, the LORD [YHWH], am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens [How? With someone else’s help? No.] by Myself, and spreading out the earth [with help? No.] all alone."

If God created everything “all alone” as this passage (Isaiah 44:24) says and Jesus created “all things” (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17) you have to conclude that Jesus must be that God, the God of the Old Testament—Yahweh

This evidence seems difficult to find. Are you going to find it after the Jury has sentenced the suspect?

Anyway, if you cannot find it, do not run away. We can still talk about other issues.

I know that it wasn't your fault and I blame those bloggers who use you to get traffic to their websites by blaspheming and maligning the Jehovah's Witnesses. They know that stories about the JW fetch traffic because revilers are always on the lookout for any clues to smear us and make us evil to the world.

It is an eye-opener for you though to focus on facts found in the Bible and not blogs. I have been telling you that they did not pump you up with enough armoury. You are probably someone with effervescence to work for God. I hope that you channel your thoughts the right way to avoid this sort of public disgrace next time. Even the other guy who is supporting you seems to have deserted you when you need him most. I see him online on this topic this very minute. He is just peeking to see if you came up with anything instead of assisting you in sourcing for bullets to smear the JW.

I have been reading his suppositions and malicious lies against us, but I chose not to respond to him because he is not here for conversation but to revile.

We can move to other topics but if you found something tangible, I will be willing to stay on this topic.

In progression, I will divert to another topic myself. I had asked for the name of the Church that you said is founded on a perfect foundation. Can you tell me, please?

You told me that you are a Pentecostal and I know that is not a Church. It is a movement which has a plethora of sub-doctrines (opposing doctrines to be precise). So, which of the faiths or division do you represent? Saying that you are a Pentecostal does not provide a clear narrative to your faith.

This is one of the toughest questions for JW opposers. It is a very simple question but they find it difficult to answer it because they are scared of a reprisal owing to what they have said against the JW. It proves that they are fully aware that they are also culpable of what they accuse the JW so they rather stay on a neutral platform. I discovered that my neighbour, an anti-JW blogger is actually an Orthodox faithful. Unfortunately, she still zigzags about it. You said that you are proud of your Church, then, why do you find it difficult to name it? Pentecostalism is not a Church it is a movement that has many divisions and conflicting beliefs under it. Your belief as a Pentecostal is different from the belief of another Pentecostal from another division.

I am a JW home and abroad, privately and publicly. My Family came from Voodoo(African traditional religion) and Catholic. I have been to many Churches so, I know stuff. I cannot say much on account of the good news that I profess but I do know stuff.

salvation101:
heheheheh.. Wateva dey are worshiping must be really confused dey keep banning and allowing.. In d course of dis, many life get lost

removetheturban:
Were you taught in English? Can you differentiate between eat and consume?

It is called context. Bible says do not eat blood of animals meant for food and sacrifice. Or is it that you people forget that part?
Its only Watchtower magazine that abstain from consuming blood is seen. Eat and consume are synonymous. But consume also means other things. Blood can be eaten as food and used during transfusions they both mean entirely different thing. Why assume that bible says abstain from consuming blood when the bible is specific saying do not eat blood of animals meant for food and sacrifice?

Why do you people leave out the part of not eating blood of animals meant for food and sacrifice.
I know blood components are allowed. Then if you say your Jehovah asked you to abstain from consuming blood, then explain why using blood components and eating blood sausages are allowed. What is the biblical verse that supports your doctrines.

WOULD YOU BE MAN ENOUGH TO TENDER AN APOLOGY TO THE JEHOVAH's WITNESSES FOR YOUR IRREVERENT AND BLASPHEMOUS COMMENTS?

Deuteronomy 12:23

New Living Translation
But never consume the blood, for the blood is the life, and you must not consume the lifeblood with the meat.

International Standard Version
Only be sure to refrain from eating blood, because blood is the source of life and you must not consume blood with the meat.

Deuteronomy 12:16

New Living Translation
But you must not consume the blood. You must pour it out on the ground like water.

International Standard Version
Only, you must not consume the blood; instead, pour it out on the ground as you would water.

Acts 15:20

New Living Translation
Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from eating food offered to idols, from sexual immorality, from eating the meat of strangled animals, and from consuming blood.

Deuces or aces?

Hairyrapunzel:

It is called context. Bible says do not eat blood of animals meant for food and sacrifice. Or is it that you people forget that part?
Its only Watchtower magazine that abstain from consuming blood is seen. Eat and consume are synonymous. But consume also means other things. Blood can be eaten as food and used during transfusions they both mean entirely different thing. Why assume that bible says abstain from consuming blood when the bible is specific saying do not eat blood of animals meant for food and sacrifice?

Why do you people leave out the part of not eating blood of animals meant for food and sacrifice.
I know blood components are allowed. Then if you say your Jehovah asked you to abstain from consuming blood, then explain why using blood components and eating blood sausages are allowed. What is the biblical verse that supports your doctrines.

Hello! Are you still there?

You do not have to run away in shame. All I asked for was an apology made publicly to the Jehovah's witnesses for all the fictitious lies and sickening blasphemy you have slurred against them to smear them. You have been lancing a vendetta against us for a long time, publishing unproven and spiteful contents but no one was responding to you and you have been feeling galvanized. You have been quoting all my comments for weeks now. You used to be quick to respond. All of a sudden you seem to have gone on a vacay. I hope MTN network locates you in the crater where you are hiding in shame.

Anyway, no probs.

You cannot do this to other religion/Churches. You know that they will attack and insult you. You feel refuelled whenever you meet the JW because you find them humble and vulnerable so you take advantage of that.

Are you still making the research to provide the evidence for your supposition? You are allowed to come back if you do not find the evidence. This research has turned to a 2-day workshop for you. The painful thing is that the other guy is not helping. This is what you should have done before making a conclusion about others. Two sides of a coin is a cliche. Has Google suddenly become your enemy? Where is Wikipedia? Where are the bloggers? I blame Hairypun for all these. You and I were actually having a decent conversation until he showed up.

We will all go back to the 18th and 19 century to get the stand of science and all religions regarding medicine and inventions. We will uncover the canned worms in all religions so that we can all release ourselves.
If you are willing to go the mile, we will but do not be bigoted in your approach. You have to expose even your own religion also. There is so much to reveal. It is very easy to blameshift.

salvation101:
heheheheh.. Wateva dey are worshiping must be really confused I av engaged in long discussions with ur members dat leave me asking questions and making research nd some of the things i find aren't good

removetheturban:
This evidence seems difficult to find. Are you going to find it after the Jury has sentenced the suspect?

Anyway, if you cannot find it, do not run away. We can still talk about other issues.

I know that it wasn't your fault and I blame those bloggers who use you to get traffic to their websites by blaspheming and maligning the Jehovah's Witnesses. They know that stories about the JW fetch traffic because revilers are always on the lookout for any clues to smear us and make us evil to the world.

It is an eye-opener for you though to focus on facts found in the Bible and not blogs. I have been telling you that they did not pump you up with enough armoury. You are probably someone with effervescence to work for God. I hope that you channel your thoughts the right way to avoid this sort of public disgrace next time. Even the other guy who is supporting you seems to have deserted you when you need him most. I see him online on this topic this very minute. He is just peeking to see if you came up with anything instead of assisting you in sourcing for bullets to smear the JW.

I have been reading his suppositions and malicious lies against us, but I chose not to respond to him because he is not here for conversation but to revile.

We can move to other topics but if you found something tangible, I will be willing to stay on this topic.

In progression, I will divert to another topic myself. I had asked for the name of the Church that you said is founded on a perfect foundation. Can you tell me, please?

You told me that you are a Pentecostal and I know that is not a Church. It is a movement which has a plethora of sub-doctrines (opposing doctrines to be precise). So, which of the faiths or division do you represent? Saying that you are a Pentecostal does not provide a clear narrative to your faith.

This is one of the toughest questions for JW opposers. It is a very simple question but they find it difficult to answer it because they are scared of a reprisal owing to what they have said against the JW. It proves that they are fully aware that they are also culpable of what they accuse the JW so they rather stay on a neutral platform. I discovered that my neighbour, an anti-JW blogger is actually an Orthodox faithful. Unfortunately, she still zigzags about it. You said that you are proud of your Church, then, why do you find it difficult to name it? Pentecostalism is not a Church it is a movement that has many divisions and conflicting beliefs under it. Your belief as a Pentecostal is different from the belief of another Pentecostal from another division.

I am a JW home and abroad, privately and publicly. My Family came from Voodoo(African traditional religion) and Catholic. I have been to many Churches so, I know stuff. I cannot say much on account of the good news that I profess but I do know stuff.

All these persecution complex na was. People cannot criticize your doctrines because it would mean they persecute you yet you can criticize other religions doctrines and you will not call it persecution.

All these because you don't want to die in Armageddon when your Jehovah comes to kill billions of non jws. So pathetic.

It's not everybody that can be brainwashed. Its one of the following reasons you became a Jw
1. You were sad
2. You were depressed
3. You were suicidal
4. You are a narcissist
5. You were an alcoholic, drug abuser or drug addict.
6. You were lonely

Then the jws came and promised you an imaginary Paradise earth that you will leave forever on after their Jehovah has come to murder all wicked people ( billions of non jws, their children and fetuses).

Thanks to bloggers we now know the damage your organization can inflict on people and also the danger of becoming a Jehovah's witness.

removetheturban:
Hello! Are you still there?

You do not have to run away in shame. All I asked for was an apology made publicly to the Jehovah's witnesses for all the fictitious lies and sickening blasphemy you have slurred against them to smear them. You have been lancing a vendetta against us for a long time, publishing unproven and spiteful contents but no one was responding to you and you have been feeling galvanized. You have been quoting all my comments for weeks now. You used to be quick to respond. All of a sudden you seem to have gone on a vacay. I hope MTN network locates you in the crater where you are hiding in shame.

Anyway, no probs.

You cannot do this to other religion/Churches. You know that they will attack and insult you. You feel refuelled whenever you meet the JW because you find them humble and vulnerable so you take advantage of that.

Nobody is Telling lies against your religion. Your doctrines are not biblical. How will people wish their god comes to kill billions because they refused to pay allegiance to watchtower? Isn't that sickening?

removetheturban:
Are you still making the research to provide the evidence for your supposition? You are allowed to come back if you do not find the evidence. This research has turned to a 2-day workshop for you. The painful thing is that the other guy is not helping. This is what you should have done before making a conclusion about others. Two sides of a coin is a cliche. Has Google suddenly become your enemy? Where is Wikipedia? Where are the bloggers? I blame Hairypun for all these. You and I were actually having a decent conversation until he showed up.

fallacy of hasty conclusion. Last time we talked was last night nd u miss me dis much already . I am coming to respond to each of ur post. Just busy offline in preparation for the holiday. Give me a few time ok?

removetheturban:
You may act smart but you need to BE smart. Post the entire article here for us to read. It is a public forum, post it! What you posted there is an excerpt from two separate articles with points to favor your argument and from this, a wise person cannot make a conclusion. Picking those lines out of an article without reading the entire sense or article is a smear plot.
Post the entire article for us to read the conclusion.

Do not forget to answer my question. You are yet to mention the name of a Church founded on a perfect foundation as you said. I see how you skew on that one but you are fast to respond to others issues.
We will get there. I am only in the defence.

http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/organ_transplants.html

Watchtower 1967 November 15 pp.702-4 Questions from Readers

Questions from Readers

• Is there any Scriptural objection to donating one's body for use in medical research or to accepting organs for transplant from such a source?—W. L., U.S.A.

A number of issues are involved in this matter, including the propriety of organ transplants and autopsies. Quite often human emotion is the only factor considered when individuals decide these matters. It would be good, though, for Christians to consider the Scriptural principles that apply, and then make decisions in harmony with these principles so as to be pleasing to Jehovah.—Acts 24:16.

First, it would be well to have in mind that organ transplant operations, such as are now being performed in an attempt to repair the body or extend a life-span, were not the custom thousands of years ago, so we cannot expect to find legislation in the Bible on transplanting human organs. Yet, this does not mean that we have no indication of God's view of such matters.

When Jehovah for the first time allowed humans to eat animal flesh, he explained matters this way to Noah: "A fear of you and a terror of you will continue upon every living creature of the earth and upon every flying creature of the heavens, upon everything that goes moving on the ground, and upon all the fishes of the sea. Into your hand they are now given. Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for you. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to you. Only flesh with its soul—its blood—you must not eat." (Gen. 9:2-4) That allowance was made to Noah, from whom every person now alive descended. Hence, it applies to all of us.

Humans were allowed by God to eat animal flesh and to sustain their human lives by taking the lives of animals, though they were not permitted to eat blood. Did this include eating human flesh, sustaining one's life by means of the body or part of the body of another human, alive or dead? No! That would be cannibalism, a practice abhorrent to all civilized people. Jehovah clearly made a distinction between the lives of animals and the lives of humans, mankind being created in God's image, with his qualities. (Gen. 1:27) This distinction is evident in His next words. God proceeded to show that man's life is sacred and is not to be taken at will, as may be done with the animals to be used for food. To show disrespect for the sanctity of human life would make one liable to have his own life taken.—Gen. 9:5, 6.

When there is a diseased or defective organ, the usual way health is restored is by taking in nutrients. The body uses the food eaten to repair or heal the organ, gradually replacing the cells. When men of science conclude that this normal process will no longer work and they suggest removing the organ and replacing it directly with an organ from another human, this is simply a shortcut. Those who submit to such operations are thus living off the flesh of another human. That is cannibalistic. However, in allowing man to eat animal flesh Jehovah God did not grant permission for humans to try to perpetuate their lives by cannibalistically taking into their bodies human flesh, whether chewed or in the form of whole organs or body parts taken from others....

Modern science has developed many different types of operations that involve human body parts, some common and usually successful and others experimental and often unsuccessful. It is not our place to decide whether such operations are advisable or warranted from a scientific or medical standpoint. It would be well, though, for Christians faced With a decision in this regard to consider the indication as to God's viewpoint presented in the Scriptures.—Eph. 5:10. ...

It should be evident from this discussion that Christians who have been enlightened by God's Word do not need to make these decisions simply on the basis of personal whim or emotion. They can consider the divine principles recorded in the Scriptures and use these in making personal decisions as they look to God for direction, trusting him and putting their confidence in the future that he has in store for those who love him.—Prov. 3:5, 6; Ps. 119:105.

You have not tendered the apology that I requested. Dislodge your pride and cowardice and tender that apology.

There is a difference between constructive Criticism and defamation. You were not criticizing, you were lancing a fetish vendetta against us. I did not cry persecution. Did I? At least when you defame others, do it with a sense of decorum.

Nobody ever tried to brainwash you here but you need a brain-scouring. The idea that you will post fictitious lies repeatedly is unsavoury. I do not even know the organisation that you represent. I am a JW, and by any decent standard, you could at least tell us your own belief and not molest people for what they believe. Be pro-something and not a satirical critic who stands on no pedestal himself

Okay, you have condemned my religion, what religion are you presenting?

Hairyrapunzel:


All these persecution complex na was. People cannot criticize your doctrines because it would mean they persecute you yet you can criticize other religions doctrines and you will not call it persecution.

All these because you don't want to die in Armageddon when your Jehovah comes to kill billions of non jws. So pathetic.

It's not everybody that can be brainwashed. Its one of the following reasons you became a Jw
1. You were sad
2. You were depressed
3. You were suicidal
4. You are a narcissist
5. You were an alcoholic, drug abuser or drug addict.
6. You were lonely

Then the jws came and promised you an imaginary Paradise earth that you will leave forever on after their Jehovah has come to murder all wicked people ( billions of non jws, their children and fetuses).

Thanks to bloggers we now know the damage your organization can inflict on people and also the danger of becoming a Jehovah's witness.