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Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by JeSoul(f): 4:26pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
50? 100? 1,000? 50,000 people? what is the limit? what is appropriate? The topic was sparked by this quote from Kunle's thread: InesQor:https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-282213.352.html#msg5877346 Biblically speaking, how large is a church supposed to be? Is there a limit placed on us by the scriptures? How effective can we be in patterning ourselves after the early church (in matters like communion, taking care of each other etc) if the church is too large? If churches were smaller, would there be a need to collect so much money take care of the physical properties? what are the advantages? or disadvantages? Pls discuss. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by JeSoul(f): 4:27pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
JeSoul: InesQor: |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by KunleOshob(m): 5:18pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
Aside from my comments in the previous thread, i believe large churches deny the congregation the opportuiny of close fellowship which i believe was the pupose of the initial church. There is evidence in the bible that people discussed issues at church gatherings but today the focus is on one man[pastor] who does all the talking and there is no room for contributions or questions you just have to accept everything preached wether it is right or wrong and wether you understand it or not. I believe if there was opportunity for questions in churches a lot of fallacies that pastors preach like tithes, first fruits e.t.c would be question and the faults in them would be expose before the whole church, this would discourage preachers from adding their own doctrines to scriptures like Pastor Adeboye tried to do in his "100 fold returns" scam which he wrote in his "open heavens" devotional of march 17 2010. 1 Like |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Nobody: 5:29pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
This is one of the reasons i now attend my church quite infrequently. Large churches make close-knit christian fellowships and bible studies impossible. Large churches today are no different from movie theatres . . . you go in, watch a 30 min concert that you dont participate in, listen to a 20 min motivational speech where you're not required to own a bible as the verses are put up on a screen for your convenience. Pay your usual gate fee (tithes and offerings) then leave. Where is the place for searching the scriptures? What if you had burning questions to ask? where is the place for exhorting one another? Where is the opportunity to share testimonies that bolster the faith of others? 2 Likes |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by InesQor(m): 5:38pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
@Davidylan: LOL many churches today are cinemas with gate passes, i know, right? |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by bawomolo(m): 5:43pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
most large churches typically have small groups. i know redeem does. Pastor Adeboye tried to do in his "100 fold returns" scam which he wrote in his "open heavens" devotional of march 17 2010. what was that about |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by JeSoul(f): 5:48pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
bawomolo:See . . . KunleOshob:My church of about 1000+ also has these house fellowships. But I have never gone for a single one. I don't go to the house of "strangers" (and my use of the key word "strangers" should very telling). Kunle thank you for that response. I agree completely with everything you said there. Very well spoken sir. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Nobody: 5:50pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
I believe that is what Home cells and Care groups are meant to address. If we say Churches should not have more than 5o members then we will have many more churches than we have now crowding the place 1 Like |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by bawomolo(m): 5:50pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
why do u consider them strangers? |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by JeSoul(f): 5:58pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
bawomolo:Because we may attend the same church, but I don't know them outside of church. I am not "friends" with them. And I do not go to the houses of people I don't know - whether or not they claim to be christians. However, practically every sat night, a group of us/my friends meet. Sometimes to hang out, watch a movie, sometimes to have bible study, sometimes to have dinner, sometimes a birthday party for one of us, sometimes a discussion, sometimes we invite an older person to share etc . . . this group of friends are the ones I truly consider my "church family". aisha2:. . . but if they were meeting in their houses (like my friends and I do) there wouldn't be any need for extra physical structures that cost money to build and maintain. 2 Likes |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by JeSoul(f): 6:04pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
davidylan:This was funny . . . . . . until I remembered a church website I stumbled on a year ago. They actually meet at a movie theatre on sundays and encourage coffee and popcorn while the service goes on. They "preach/teach" using mostly videos so it's all movie-themed. I'll try to search and see if I can find that website. Its a growing trend of "Alternative Churches" that are popping up all over the place. If I tell you of some of the places I've been to and stuff I've seen/heard, you will weep for American churches. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by InesQor(m): 6:11pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
Housefellowships are mainly a devious ploy to extend church services (roughly 3 or 4 per week already) further, and to generate more offerings and tithes even in the people's comfort zones. They know it will be hard to be absent. Its not done right, IMHO. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Nobody: 6:14pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
InesQor: lol even in the bible study i attend they have offering time too. Amazing. I think for anyone who has attended NCCF before, it is the CLOSEST idea of what the early church used to be like. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by KunleOshob(m): 6:25pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
What is NCCF |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Nobody: 6:30pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
nigerian christian corpers fellowship |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by JeSoul(f): 6:32pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
InesQor: davidylan:Kai are you guys serious? offerings at house fellowships too? what the heck? |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Nobody: 6:34pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
JeSoul: Last wed it was communion service so i got all my friends to attend with me . . . turns out it was a public baptism (after eating a tiny wafer and 20 ml of wine). Well the Bishop came and told us to give "BIG" to the Lawd. I parted with my last $10. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by InesQor(m): 6:40pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
Lol spot on, Davidylan. NCCF often gets it right. Men! I enjoyed those NYSC days! But to be fair, some NCCF families turn out to be AS indoctrinated with traditions AS their current Papa is. Some that I came across were power-drunk and no different from some conservative churches that KunleOshob detracts very often. but the few ones where the leadership gave way to the Holy Spirit, they were awesome. Mine, and I guess yours too from your comment, were like that. @KunleOshob: its the National Christian Corpers Fellowship. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by bawomolo(m): 6:40pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
u thought the ribena and cabin biscuit was free? |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Nobody: 6:45pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
InesQor: right on point! I thought the use of the term "papa" to describe the leadership was way over the top. I had no idea how these folks could reconcile that with a verse like this - Matt 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. That aside, it was a spiritually rewarding experience. For the first time i understood what GENUINE fellowship and bible study meant. We used to circulate bible study outlines each week in advance and everyone was required to spend time in study and prayer before the meet. There was no delegated leader, everyone came and exhorted the other as the spirit led. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Nobody: 6:53pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
JeSoul: I am itching for thur bible study already. I intend to bring this up . . . one of the tricks of the devil especially on the American church is that he has succeeded in getting everyone to think that God is simply about "love". Yes God is love BUT God is also a flaming fire, a Rod of Justice and a Jealous Father. If you cant be eating popcorn and drinking coffee when in a staff meeting with your boss then neither shld you be doing same in church (of course i am guilty of this too). I read Deut 6 last night and i was amazed at how tough God sounded! It completely puts the "God is my boyfriend" sort of messages we hear these days into perspective. 1 Like |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by noetic16(m): 7:14pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
@ OP Small churches bring about unnecessary familiarity. Big churches have several doctrine problems. . , but it helps to just worship and disappear without anyone noticing. . . . . .there is however no basis for condemning big churches. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by JeSoul(f): 7:19pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
^^ I couldn't find that church website (and btw looks like "movie churches" have seriously multiplied over the past few yrs) but David here's some ammunition for your bible study. I found this article online: Some excerpts: "Its naturally different because we meet in a huge theater," he said, adding that the setting, "actually helps people to see God as part of their every day lives"
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Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by JeSoul(f): 7:24pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
noetic16:The early church that met in each others homes and shared their properties and dedicated their lives to one another - uneccesary familiarity? Jesus told us to bear one another's burdens and love each other - how can we do that if we don't know each other? Big churches have several doctrine problems. . , but it helps to just worship and disappear without anyone noticing.Noetic, you may want to re-read what you just wrote, hopefully you may recognize that it appears you do not know the purpose for gathering together and having church in the first place. Oh David here's the link if you want it http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1129&dat=20031015&id=tKokAAAAIBAJ&sjid=jHADAAAAIBAJ&pg=6493,4315061 |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by noetic16(m): 7:25pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
KunleOshob: how then do u measure growth?. . , .what happens if u minister to people and they get saved. . . .would u tell them to go and worship somewhere else because u dont want to be a big church?. Biblical churches actually grew FYI, and there was no restriction to their sizes. What u should be mostly concerned about is the ingenuity of the sermons and doctrines and not about the church size. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by noetic16(m): 7:32pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
JeSoul: Jesoul, unless we reconstruct the early church, there is no point of a small fellowship gathering. The early church SOLD and GAVE ALL THEY HAD. They lived in harmony and were their brothers keepers. This implies that as a member of the church u could expose ur vulnerability to another member and would not be ridiculed. How is that possible in the present constitution of churches? when egoism and materialism are the centre of the "gospel". . .where u must be suffering from an evil spirit if u are broke . . . .or some demons are pursuing u, if as a lady u are not married early. The present churches are IMO not worth bonding with. Noetic, you may want to re-read what you just wrote, hopefully you may recognize that it appears you do not know the purpose for gathering together and having church in the first place. Jesoul, I tried to and on two occasions got my fingers burnt. It takes more than two people who have submitted and surrendered completely to the HS to make a fellowship. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Nobody: 8:40pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
JeSoul: Is that a "church" service or a religious tea party event? "Its naturally different because we meet in a huge theater," he said, adding that the setting, "actually helps people to see God as part of their every day lives" I'm sorry Drent, the atmosphere does NOT help folks see God as "part of their everyday lives" . . . it simply trivializes Him and brings Him down to the level of our "buddy" we can ignore when we choose and have no serious need to respect. Jesus was part of the everyday life of the early apostles . . . they would NEVER dream of worshiping in the temple of Diana just to please the Ephesians. As for Drent, he does not so much preach as talk to those in attendance about what they can do to make their spiritual lives better and happier Drent, you really dont understand christianity. It is NOT about making our spiritual lives "better or happier" . . . it really isnt about us AT ALL . . . it is about giving worship to the MOST HIGH! |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Mmmbop: 8:40pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
noetic16:I agree |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Nobody: 8:43pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
noetic16: this is precisely JeSoul's point . . . how can i be my brothers keeper when i dont even know my brother? |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by noetic16(m): 8:53pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
davidylan: u would be shocked to find out that there are more unsaved persons in the church than the saved. That explains why knowing them would bring about negative influences IMO. I was once worshipping in a RCCG parish here in london. I so liked the messages from the alter (as they were undiluted truths) that I decided to become a church worker. my experience was disgusting. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by JeSoul(f): 8:58pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
Noetic, you have answered your own question as David just pointed out. The fact that the vast majority of churches have departed from the biblical standard set by the early church does not mean we who are aware should follow suit. There are still small churches doing right. There are still cells of believers who meet in their houses or local YMCA spaces and have fellowship where they can know each other and bear each other's burdens and be in true fellowship. noetic16:We don't have to re-construct it Noetic, just follow in their example. Several people (including myself) have already stated here how they meet with other believers in homes and have studies and fellowship. We don't have to settle for the mass produced re-packaged system of churches that are all about glory and no sacrifice, that we are surrounded with today. Jesoul, I tried to and on two occasions got my fingers burnt.hehe you nor well lol. noetic16:Is "measuring church growth" a part of the great commission? when did Jesus or any of the apostles ever have the need to count how many followers they had? what happens if u minister to people and they get saved. . . .would u tell them to go and worship somewhere else because u dont want to be a big church?.You're mixing two things. Church is not for the unsaved but for the brethren to come together and encourage and strengthen each other. We're supposed to go out and make disciples, who in turn go out and make more disciples and naturally these christians would be attracted to other christians and begin their own "church" whereever they are. Biblical churches actually grew FYI, and there was no restriction to their sizes.This is very true. But you must admit the bible is replete with examples of christians meeting in each others homes and fellowshipping. noetic16:actually that trend has become the norm rather than the exception. It is sad. My question to you is why remain in the local church if it is not a biblically functioning one? |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Nobody: 9:00pm On Apr 12, 2010 |
noetic16: Even in the early church there were some like Hymenaeus and Alexander whom Paul wanted to personally deliver to satan for teaching heresies. There is certainly no shock in knowing there are more unsaved in the church . . . the church is just like the parable of the wheat and tares . . . both will grow together until harvest. However being in a large social group (like our churches have become) facilitates a large bunch of unsaved to fly under the radar. Its hard to pretend to be saved if you have to be a part of a small genuine bible study unit week in week out. The unsaved now enjoy "church" because they dont need a bible, are only taught what they want to hear and can have a good time listening to a relatively free concert with child care provided. Besides . . . in some communities in the US, being a member of the reigning church is even an economic advantage. |
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