Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy - Politics (4) - Nairaland
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| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by paddylo1(m): 12:22am On Apr 18, 2010 |
WOW!!! I see the thread is being derailed. . . I wondered when that would happen.sometimes u have to school ppl. . . .u may think i am derailing the thread, but i have to proof to ignorant Nigerians that lots of countries are more dangerous than Nigeria and more people die in a daily basis in those countries. . . Just because u refuse to read wide or because your favorite channel BBC or CNN doesnt report that does not give u an excuse not to know what is going on in the world in todays internet age sign up for a subscription to the ECONOMIST and u will know better |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by paddylo1(m): 12:34am On Apr 18, 2010 |
Colombia's presidential campaign Safer, but still not safe Despite the achievements of Álvaro Uribe’s security policy, his successor will have to tackle a new threat from organised criminal gangs Apr 8th 2010 | BOGOTÁ | From The Economist print edition [size=16pt]IN 2002 when Álvaro Uribe was first elected as Colombia’s president, many of his fellow-countrymen felt trapped in never-ending violence. On an average day one person was forcibly “disappeared”, eight people were kidnapped, 80 were murdered and more than 1,100 were forced to flee their homes. Army bases were being overrun by left-wing guerrillas, while right-wing paramilitaries massacred hundreds of villagers. With the economy weak as well, more than 2m Colombians had migrated to escape from a country that seemed to be becoming a failed state.[/size] Today Colombia is back on its feet. In eight years in power Mr Uribe crippled the guerrillas of the FARC and the ELN, and demobilised tens of thousands of their paramilitary opponents. His “democratic security” policy has seen the government take control of territory that was in the grip of these illegal armies. Murders, kidnappings and other crimes have fallen sharply. Perhaps the highest compliment to Mr Uribe, who will step down in August after two terms, is that these policies are almost taken for granted. In the campaign for next month’s presidential election, all the main candidates, across the political spectrum, have vowed to continue them, in broad outline. And Colombians no longer say that security is among their top worries: these are unemployment, poverty and health care, according to a poll last month for El Tiempo, a newspaper. [size=14pt]Perhaps they are too sanguine, for two reasons. First, the successes were not unblemished. As the security forces were expanded—by two-fifths between 2002 and 2009— so did the abuses attributed to them directly. Troops were rewarded with extra leave for killings of presumed rebels, and for preventing terrorist attacks or discovering the perpetrators. A few were overzealous. In half a dozen cases, soldiers were found to have planted bombs supposedly left by the FARC. In 2006 a bystander was killed and ten soldiers wounded when a bomb struck an army convoy in Bogotá, the capital. It was later revealed that a captain and a lieutenant had planted the explosives, which detonated by mistake.[/size] [size=18pt]According to the Colombian Commission of Jurists, an NGO that is highly critical of Mr Uribe, extrajudicial executions (ie, murders) of civilians by government forces nearly doubled between his first year in office and the year to June 2007, from 127 to 228. In 2008 local news media uncovered a macabre network that lured unemployed urban youths to the countryside with promises of jobs, only to kill them and pass them off as dead rebels.[/size] The government swiftly cashiered 27 senior army officers, including three generals, and rewrote the army’s rules of engagement. Cases of extrajudicial executions have fallen dramatically. But the damage to the army’s image was done. The second reason for worry is that violence has increased again over the past year, though not to the levels of the past. The FARC, while severely weakened and mostly confined to remote areas close to Colombia’s borders, is still capable of damage. It appears to have been responsible for a car bomb on March 24th that killed nine people and wounded 56 in Buenaventura, a port on the Pacific coast. Another threat involves new criminal gangs. These outfits, many led by former mid-level commanders of the paramilitaries, are mostly dedicated to the cocaine trade, from controlling coca crops to processing the paste and shipping the product. According to the National Police, they number some 4,000, in eight main gangs spread across 24 of Colombia’s 32 departments; human-rights groups say the number is bigger. Officials insist that these gangs are purely criminal and lack a political agenda. They compare them to similar groups which emerged in the aftermath of civil wars in El Salvador and Guatemala. Some human-rights activists fear that they are a new generation of paramilitaries. [size=16pt]The gangs commit massacres and murders of civilians, and have “repeatedly targeted human-rights defenders, trade unionists [and] displaced persons,” according to a recent report by Human Rights Watch, a New York-based group. They have also been responsible for the continued eviction of civilians from rural areas they want to control.[/size] Fighting among these groups has undermined progress in controlling violence. One weekend last month 16 people were gunned down in rural areas of Córdoba department, once the headquarters of the paramilitary federation. The gunmen and victims were all believed to be members of rival paramilitary “successor groups”. Three years ago Medellín, formerly Latin America’s murder capital, was a showcase for the success of the democratic-security policy. But last year the number of murders in the city more than doubled, returning to the level of 2003. Most of them take place in the poorer suburbs on the hillsides above the city centre. In response, the National Police are stepping up patrolling of city streets and neighbourhoods. The new gangs appear to lack the ideological conviction of their forebears; indeed, they have sought alliances of convenience with the FARC and the ELN. But they remain better armed than ordinary criminals. The government has seized more than 6,000 Chinese-made rifles from them over the past two years. They may not yet be a direct threat to national security. But whoever takes over from Mr Uribe will have to move swiftly to curb them. Juan Manuel Santos, his former defence minister, who leads the opinion polls, says that security policy needs to be adapted to new threats. He argues that just as special army units were trained to fight the FARC in the jungle, special police units are needed to combat crime in the cities. Noemí Sanín, the Conservative candidate, promises to create a ministry for citizen security. Antanas Mockus, a former mayor of Bogotá who has emerged as the leading candidate of the centre-left, says he would combat all illegal groups with the same energy as Mr Uribe showed against the FARC. Protecting Colombia’s turnaround will require vigilance and innovation. http://www.economist.com/world/americas/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15867860 |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by debosky(m): 12:39am On Apr 18, 2010 |
Amazing - so because Nigeria is not as drug riddled and infested with gangs as Colombia we should pat ourselves on the back. Because there are insurgent groups in India (never mind the hundreds of millions lifted out of poverty, their manufacturing base and IT innovations) we should accept our daily killings as 'human nature'. 998 people were killed in a whole year in an incident - any observer knows that the killings in Jos alone would easily rival those amounts, but then again, if it happens in india it is ok for Nigeria, not looking at the progress they've made elsewhere. Like the author said, the middle class hypocrisy runs stunningly deep. The only thing worse than failing to address your problems is excusing them and deluding yourself into thinking things are normal. |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by paddylo1(m): 12:39am On Apr 18, 2010 |
^^^^^^^^^^^ PS, Brazil is more dangerous than colombia, so u who is arguing should understand the scale of what is happening and the kind of violence we are talking about |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by Omolulu(m): 12:42am On Apr 18, 2010 |
paddy_lo:I doubt brazil has the same level of violence than Nigeria.asides from Colombia, Brazil and India are way ahead of Nigeria irrespective of the violence, i doubt if they've experienced what we've gone through this year in Jos alone so why mention these countries |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by paddylo1(m): 12:44am On Apr 18, 2010 |
Amazing - so because Nigeria is not as drug riddled and infested with gangs as Colombia we should pat ourselves on the back. Because there are insurgent groups in India (never mind the hundreds of millions lifted out of poverty, their manufacturing base and IT innovations) we should accept our daily killings as 'human nature'. 998 people were killed in a whole year in an incident - any observer knows that the killings in Jos alone would easily rival those amounts, but then again, if it happens in india it is ok for Nigeria, not looking at the progress they've made elsewhere. Lol. . .we also have good things happening in our economy,i just pointed it out to u. . . i guess u choose to ignore them whatever needs to be done to curb violence in jos is welcome by me. . .but i am just reminding u and your kind that Nigeria being a large multi-ethnic country like india also will have its share of violence the difference is that india and Nigerians like me shrug it off and keep moving forward while people like u choose to wallow in your morass . . .its u who is the hypocrite |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by debosky(m): 12:46am On Apr 18, 2010 |
paddy_lo: Stop nit picking - it is highly unintelligent - what is Brazil's life expectancy and maternal mortality, literacy levels and per capita income? What is its population relative to these deaths and crimes? You cannot hold a coherent argument without jumping all over the place - there are giant strides in human living standards being made in those countries, not phantom figures describing GDP that have little or no bearing on everyday life. Brazil makes planes and doesn't count because only 3 nations do? More illiteracy - Canada, China, The US, Germany, Brazil amongst others produce airplanes, but then again, we should take your bland commentary as fact. |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by paddylo1(m): 12:48am On Apr 18, 2010 |
I doubt brazil has the same level of violence than Nigeria.asides from Colombia, Brazil and India are way ahead of Nigeria irrespective of the violence, i doubt if they've experienced what we've gone through this year in Jos alone so why mention these countries Another Negative one, i just showed u one article about India having a 14,000 man insurgency in one part of their country. . . . we have not talked about kashmir,or islamic terrorists or ethnic/religious violence over there as for brazil,it is 20times more violent and dangerous than Nigeria Feel free to have a look. . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by justme123: 12:50am On Apr 18, 2010 |
@kobojunkie, the thread is being derailed for sure. @paddy_lo, I once heard that the turning point for 9ija will come when people get a reality check and realize that we have a grander view of ourselves than the rest of the world thinks. Then, we'll work on truly getting to that level that we thought we were on. |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by Omolulu(m): 12:53am On Apr 18, 2010 |
paddy_lo:Unfortunately i doubt if your link and their sources ever took time to find stats for murder in Nigeria, Probably it was so much they didnt bother to find out Nigeria's murder rate, So you re the positive one, well if you do not tell yourself the truth that Nigeria is not developing, the only thing i would tell you is to go and sleep, PS: u said Africa's economy is growing faster than Europe, How come Africa also receives the Largest amount of Aid and troops to stabilize her economies and politics? |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by debosky(m): 12:54am On Apr 18, 2010 |
One more thing - it is the height of folly to be posting a wikipedia link which is based on countries that actually gather data and report, when Nigeria's thousands of undocumented killings often go unrecorded. One wonders the basis of such comparisons when the base data from Nigeria is as unreliable as ever. |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by ziga: 12:54am On Apr 18, 2010 |
justme123: We sure do. That is why whenever any thing happens, lots of Nairalanders start to say "that will never happen in the states" And that is why these journalists enjoy to air these things about us, to rub it in our face that we are not anywhere near them. So, for people who support their acts, look deeper. We are only one of their sources of amusement. We are developing. But we'll only get there with positive attitudes. Not everything that comes out of US or UK will do us good!!! |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by ziga: 12:56am On Apr 18, 2010 |
debosky: Tell that to an Indian and he will laugh. Information gathering in india as well as many other developing countries is almost as bad as it is in Nigeria. |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by paddylo1(m): 12:59am On Apr 18, 2010 |
S top nit picking - it is highly unintelligent - what is Brazil's life expectancy and maternal mortality, literacy levels and per capita income? What is its population relative to these deaths and crimes? U cant pick and choose statistics only when it suits u. . . Nigerias GDP is second largest in Africa----FACT GDP per capita is $2300---FACT its the largest telecomms market in Africa----FACT It has the most vibrant/largest movie industry in Africa(3rd largest in the world)---FACT Nigerian banks are moving aggressively into Africa and dominating everywhere they go----FACT Nigerian goods(manufactured in Nigeria),dominate the west african Markets---FACT Nigeria was second in FDI in Africa last yr(Egypt was first)----FACT Nigerias Economy is currently ranked 35th Largest in the world---FACT As for Brazil, its population is 192,000,000 million, so its not much larger than Nigeria,but 20times more violent, . . the planes i refer to are commercial planes, Boeing,Airbus and Embraer , |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by justme123: 1:10am On Apr 18, 2010 |
ziga: There are quite a few African countries that are not mentioned in the same light as Nigeria by foreign media e.g. Ghana. Are these media favorites? What did they do to earn it? Or rather, how much did they pay to get it - for those that think that's the only way it can happen. |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by Kobojunkie: 1:16am On Apr 18, 2010 |
justme123: Lol . . . the answer you will get is probably that Ghana sold out to the west and as a result, the western media has chosen to treat ghana as their darling to SPITE Nigeria for not selling out , ROFLMAO!! |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by ziga: 1:16am On Apr 18, 2010 |
justme123: If they are to talk about Africa, what other country do you think they will talk about. In terms of our number alone we represent a great percentage of Africa. The name Nigeria is known worldwide, and if you want to create amusement, you will always pick a name people will recognize with. Giant or dwarf of Africa, we will always be under the spotlight. |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by paddylo1(m): 1:17am On Apr 18, 2010 |
There are quite a few African countries that are not mentioned in the same light as Nigeria by foreign media e.g. Ghana. Are these media favorites? What did they do to earn it? Or rather, how much did they pay to get it - for those that think that's the only way it can happen. u have to tell your own story, and stop waiting for ppl to define u. . . how ridiculous is that, i really dont care for how the west potrays us but i care deeply about how we portray ourselves,thats why i am here posting trying to educate Nigerians, In America no-one really knows much about africa anyway. . . whether its Ghana,south Africa or Nigeria Its all viewed Negatively by the mostly ignorant locals. . . so its up to us to define ourselves |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by paddylo1(m): 1:23am On Apr 18, 2010 |
Lol . . . the answer you will get is probably that Ghana sold out to the west and as a result, the western media has chosen to treat ghana as their darling to SPITE Nigeria for not selling out , ROFLMAO!! No Ghana gets relatively good press because it does conduct credible elections on the other spectrum Egypt and Ethiopia,are one man dictators but nothing is said bad about them and they are strong allies of the USA So u have to appreciate if some Nigerians are skeptical, at least we hold elections where opposition parties hold power in such important states as Lagos,Kano,Anambra, and Edo If we hold credible elections in 2011 we will get better press, but that may not be enough Dont forget that South Africa,with all its progress is still mostly covered negatively with only stories of violence or aids or malema |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by Kobojunkie: 1:36am On Apr 18, 2010 |
na ! |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by Nobody: 1:45am On Apr 18, 2010 |
You guys in same on same wagon as Ikenagwo are either illiterates or educated illiterates and ignorant buffoons. Standard of Living in the US even in the so called slums is wayyy better. Food is one of my least worries here. Not that I don't love Nigeria I love it as much as those who loves it the most does. But let's put facts ahead before confronting someone for being a liar or hater. Yes foreign medias love to show slums in Nigeria. Yes They never mentioned he or she is a Nigerian when it's a great achievement. But does all that beat the fact that standard of living in Nigeria is low? NO.!! When we are talking about Nigeria, let's talk about Nigeria not say there are slums in the US too blah blah blah. If I say Joe you stole my $5 and Joe said Tyrone stole $5 too does that mean Joe is right for stealing my $5 and I should attack Tyrone instead of Joe? Let's be sensible, The only person I think shouldn't criticize is kobojunkie  . I mean she lives in Columbus "o Hi HOE" Ohio. Nigeria is bad simple. The only people enjoying and defending the cesspit are Elitists and Elite wannabes and elite minded idiots who ain't nothin yet. I've seen some goon post a picture of what he wants Nigerian "cities" to be. (All giant sky scrappers every house 50 storey building at least). I'm like how will this put food on the table? Same idiots when they think of Nigeria, they think of business they see the people as customers instead of brothers and sisters in need. Many Nigerians I've met, they all talk about going back to Nigeria to do business cause there is money to be made blah blah and when I raise the question about the voluntary help Nigeria urgently needs they raise the question of why my grandma is white and how I'm quarter Nigerian (silly jums). One got a face palm on campus!!! |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by paddylo1(m): 2:03am On Apr 18, 2010 |
Standard of Living in the US even in the so called slums is wayyy better Perhaps but why live in a slum in USA,when u can live like a king in Nigeria. . . . . Also be careful not to compare apples and oranges. . . I see some ppl here state that ppl are given $1000 dollars a month(in welfare) and juxtapose that with the Nigerian situation. . Well first of all that $1000 has to come from somewhere,and it mostly comes from taxing big and small corporations and Rich individuals So if u must juxtapose it with Nigeria,u again have to ask how many big corporations do we have how can we grow more local industries that will pay taxes and so on Secondly the money($1000) may go far in Nigeria,but it doesnt do much for u in the USA, dont 4get assuming u earn(given it) in USA,u will spend it in USA, Not nigeria |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by paddylo1(m): 2:08am On Apr 18, 2010 |
I've seen some goon post a picture of what he wants Nigerian "cities" to be. (All giant sky scrappers every house 50 storey building at least). I'm like how will this put food on the table? Same idiots when they think of Nigeria, they think of business they see the people as customers instead of brothers and sisters in need Skyscrapers may not put food on the table like u put it, but it may be a symptom of a sophisticated financial services industry that is able to finance such buildings and perhaps give employment to construction workers. . .(and other ancillary industries like steel,furniture,glass,aluminium etc) Perhaps u can explain how u intend to put food on the table as u put it. . . . For your second quote,am sorry thats how the world works, its a capitalist system out there(in case u havent noticed) everyone in america is a potential consumer/customer, If u need a friend,go buy a dog. . . .  |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by pristjones(m): 2:11am On Apr 18, 2010 |
for all i care we have all what it takes to be the best country in the whole wild world. let us begin the change from our closets. think of how positively you can add to the nation and say no to corruption at all levels of your endeavor. be BE YOU A STUDENT, GOV WORKER, LIVING IN UK, US , WERE EVER WE ARE. PUT YOUR WRITINGS INTO ACTION. LET US HAVE ONE VOICE AND STOP CHALLENGING EACH OTHER ON NAIRALAND. THIS COUNTRY CALLED NIGERIA HAS BEEN SUFFERING FOR 50 YEARS. FOR THIS REASON WE STAND UP, |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by Nobody: 2:31am On Apr 18, 2010 |
paddy_lo: You prove my point with everything you say!!! People actually pay taxes in the US. People do get welfare when they don't have a job. There is infrastructure in place to make sure people pays taxes in the US. People don't pay taxes in Nigeria, only big corporation do. There is no infrastructure in place for Nigerians to pay taxes. People don't get welfare assistance when they are flat broke. People die of starvation. Parents can't afford to feed their kids. Kids have to hawk on the street. The kids misses classes cause he or she has to hawk after classes instead of doing home work or studying. Kid drops out of school, Kid can't feed him or herself. Kid gets exploited. It's all connected lo. paddy_lo: Have you been to Sweden? or Switzerland? Sky scrappers doesn't mark development at all. , You are one of those who wants Nigeria to start abusing the earth and digging further deep to build gigantic structures? Do you even know why France can't have as much sky scrapper as Chicago alone has? Because Chicago has more investment than France? No. It's because that same soil France currently is was abused by Romans. You need to study true architecture not greed and money driven architecture. paddy_lo: I have never seen anyone in Nigeria that can live like a king in Nigeria come to the US to live in the slum. What I was saying is Slums here has drinkable water and if you can pay your hydro bill you'll get 24/7/365 electricity unless there is flooding or some kind disaster. You were talking about capitalism as if the true meaning of capitalism is entailed in your logic. Just as you were wrong on architecture, you are wrong on this one again. In every infra-structurally good nation, people pay taxes according to their earning right? If you make a million buck and you have to pay a total of say 20 percent on that. Go ahead make the people customer but you must pay your taxes. Now the people buying your products are supported by their government in terms of security and job creation and encouraging companies to invest in the country thereby providing job for the people who are suppose to be your customers. Now even so called capitalists will suffer when there are broke consumers everywhere. Now the capitalist pays taxes government has money to fund projects that will help the average people who are customers to the capitalist nut. Everything is intertwined. The complexity of government and running a nation is not like saying US has slums too when CNN shows Ajegunle. Get it? thanks bye. |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by Kobojunkie: 2:33am On Apr 18, 2010 |
9jaganja: Lol . . . I left Columbus a long while ago but I loved the people there for helping me out when I had nothing. I was jobless for most of my years in Columbus. I didn’t qualify for unemployment, nor did I qualify for medical aid; but the churches, the local organizations, and people around did their best to make sure people who had nothing got food to eat, and most of their health needs taken care of. Though not unique to Columbus, The experience opened my eyes to the numerous opportunities available to the poor in America. Something you can only dream of and wish for in most of Nigeria. |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by Nobody: 2:47am On Apr 18, 2010 |
Kobojunkie: Remember to pay back to hood the sister!!!! Seriously people need to stop thinking business and money making when they think of Nigeria. |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by paddylo1(m): 2:58am On Apr 18, 2010 |
You prove my point with everything you say!!! People actually pay taxes in the US. People do get welfare when they don't have a job. There is infrastructure in place to make sure people pays taxes in the US. I dont exactly know what point of yours am proofing,i thought i was actually proofing my own point. . anyway since we are on the same page with regards to taxation,then what we should be discussing is how we can make more Nigerians pay taxes bring them into the tax pool,so that there will be more resources available. . . It should not be one where we come and claim everything is wrong with the system, when we know fully well that we all game the system everyday by not paying our taxes Have you been to Sweden? or Switzerland? Sky scrappers doesn't mark development at all. , You are one of those who wants Nigeria to start abusing the earth and digging further deep to build gigantic structures? Do you even know why France can't have as much sky scrapper as Chicago alone has? Because Chicago has more investment than France? No. It's because that same soil France currently is was abused by Romans. You need to study true architecture not greed and money driven architecture. OK u want Nigeria to be more like france and sweden,and i want it to be more like the USA or China. . . Its a fair argument to have. . .u are a little to the left and i am a little to the right. . . no problem although i will have u know that china is growing real GDP at 11%,USA is growing at 5.6%,while france is at 0.6% and sweden is <1% (latest Q1 2010 GDP figures) I have never seen anyone in Nigeria that can live like a king in Nigeria come to the US to live in the slum. What I was saying is Slums here has drinkable water and if you can pay your hydro bill you'll get 24/7/365 electricity unless there is flooding or some kind disaster.again goes back to the tax issue. . .even if those utilities like water and electricity are subsidized for the poor,it is usually paid for by the rich if Nigeria can reform its taxation and have a nationwide income tax for all citizens at the federal level then things like infrastructure for the poor will be easier to handle |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by sulad82i(m): 3:08am On Apr 18, 2010 |
paddy_lo: I'm not saying these and more cant happen in Nigeria, but at the way things are right now and how it has been in past do you think the govt are ready to use the taxes collected for the right reason? Do you think the money will benefit the masses or benefit the pple in power and their allies? I will really love for everyone to pay taxes in Nigeria and see the revenue used for basic infrastructures for basic survivals of the people and also develop the dilapidated ones we currently have. |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by paddylo1(m): 3:28am On Apr 18, 2010 |
You were talking about capitalism as if the true meaning of capitalism is entailed in your logic. Just as you were wrong on architecture, you are wrong on this one again. In every infra-structurally good nation, people pay taxes according to their earning right? If you make a million buck and you have to pay a total of say 20 percent on that. Go ahead make the people customer but you must pay your taxes. Now the people buying your products are supported by their government in terms of security and job creation and encouraging companies to invest in the country thereby providing job for the people who are suppose to be your customers. Now even so called capitalists will suffer when there are broke consumers everywhere. Now the capitalist pays taxes government has money to fund projects that will help the average people who are customers to the capitalist nut. Everything is intertwined. The complexity of government and running a nation is not like saying US has slums too when CNN shows Ajegunle. Get it? thanks bye. Lol u make a twisted long winded statement and decide to run away. . . . To start with,I wasnt wrong on no architecture, hell i never argued architecture with u i only pointed out that the desirability of highrises is only logical cause it means u also have a good financial and banking industry and construction also helps to drive GDP growth. . . those highrises u see in china or chicago are not built with cash,but with bank credit and loans Now to your statement on capitalism. . . . there is no top down system that says i have money and u must be my customer, u can as well go to a bank get a loan and start a business nothing stops u. . .there is mobility of income, u can grow your business and make the million dollar tommorrow nobody is keeping u down permanently as a consumer If people are broke or if there is a recession,capitalists will lay off workers till the economy improves,starts to expand then they hire again,its called a business cycle. . . The complexity of government and running a nation is not like saying US has slums too when CNN shows Ajegunle. Get it? thanks bye [b]U are actually making a point. . . . .but it mostly makes the case for the people that are mad at CNN or BBC(although like i said earlier i am not one of them) The case is simple. . .CNN/BBC are supposed to be sophisticated news organizations they know how a modern economy is supposed to work. . . If they are really interested in covering the country fairly,then they should know that there is nowhere in the world where people that dont pay taxes get services so them coming here to highlight slums makes no sense they should instead be asking the Government tough questions like - -when are they going to have a national federal income tax for all citizens - -what will be the top tax rate,wo will be exempted - -How much is expected to be raised and how much is dedicated to urban renewal To the slum dwellers they should let them know that in Europe or America - -Everyone pays Taxes. . - -If u dont work or are too poor u will pay sales and social security taxes in lieu of income tax - - If u own a home u will pay property taxes - -So before u can hold your govt accountable for building that road, u should be paying some form of tax to the Govt - -If u want unemployment benefits,u have to have worked for a minimum of 2yrs and paid into an insurance pool but i guess its easier for them to come flash their cameras at slums and go away. . . . the alternative entails too much hard work [/b] |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by Nobody: 3:50am On Apr 18, 2010 |
paddy_lo: It seems you don't get it do you? High rises doesn't signify growth or financial whatever. Switzerland and has world's best banking and financial sector, you don't see high rises there like you see in Chicago. You don't seem to understand my analogy quite well. I wasn't arguing architecture either. I was pointing out that high rise buildings are not monuments for financial growth. BBC/CNN shows what they see. Now instead of us to get mad and look for ways to solve our problems we are pointing fingers at the US/UK saying they have slums too blah blah blah. On the other note who's fault is it that Nigerians don't pay taxes? The thieving leaders know they are not bold enough to ask Nigerians to start paying taxes which they'll use in increasing salary for senators. You want me to pay you money but you didn't tell me how. You can't get loan when you don't have a job and in Nigeria, there is no way to check for good credit etc, Don't have a job or you make 5k naira a month who you kidding? Ain't no bank gon give you loan for sh!!t. You gon keep consuming. It calls for a back to the root system. Any nation can design a system that works for them provided freedom and other human rights are respected. Capitalism and all these greed driven systems that private investors lobbied for to be legally accepted will not work in Nigeria. That all man for himself mentality is a dark age mentality but many of us think we are educated cause we earned degrees in Ignorance. |
| Re: Bbc, Olusosun And Nigerian Middle Class Hypocrisy by sulad82i(m): 4:00am On Apr 18, 2010 |
Lets all stop this shouting of slumps and poor here, poor there, poor here is different than poor there etc. You all seems to have an idea of what is going on and opinions on what to do about them. Why not talk about how to move forward? What should we do as individuals, as group, what will you recommend to our lawmakers? Lets talk about these and not compare buildings. |
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