The highest quality products in any market are usually more expensive than the average quality products consumed by the mass market. No amount of heroic political gymnastics can change that. It's better to accept it. If the average man didn't have to pay so much tax to fund inefficient "free" hospitals, he'll be able to afford private ones.

Please go through 4play's last post. You cannot provide services (as a private investor) in a vacuum. Is it economically feasible for me to set up a private hospital in Nigeria?
What about electricity? Nigeria generates 1200MW when it needs a minimum of 10000MW. South Africa generates 100000MW.
What about water?
Do i have to build a refinery just in case we run into our ubiquitous fuel strikes and scarcity episodes?
Would i have to build my own roads?
What of an emergency system like the 911 system?

What is the government doing to encourage me to invest in its economy?

All these talk is rubbish. We have factories in Nigeria, worst comes to worst, pass on the higher costs as prices to consumers. We have people processing Chivita, factories in Nnewi, saw mills. . .albeit not operating as efficiently as they could but they stille exist. If you want to invest, you'll invest, energy is just another cost to take into account. Afterall, gas prices  in Nigeria are about 1/4th of the price of gas in the U.S. anyway!

Seun:

You can't even dream of starting a hospital if you are not a doctor,

This is not true.

Seun:

and it's so hard to qualify as one.

Also not true. Thousands of Nigerians qualify as doctors every year.

Are these the "regulations"?

i don't think you have to be one to set up one

how about 'generators'? can't they be used in place of 'NEPA'?

@Donzman

I asked you a simple question;if there is a viable market out there to provide private healthcare for Nigerians,why hasn't the private sector stepped in to exploit this market?

I have said that the environment in Nigeria makes it difficult and hence pointless

Please explain to us why the private sector is not doing what you think they should be doing?

Donzman:

All these talk is rubbish. We have factories in Nigeria, worst comes to worst, pass on the higher costs as prices to consumers. We have people processing Chivita, factories in Nnewi, saw mills. . .albeit not operating as efficiently as they could but they stille exist. If you want to invest, you'll invest, energy is just another cost to take into account. Afterall, gas prices  in Nigeria are about 1/4th of the price of gas in the U.S. anyway!

Na wa o! Factories in the Nigerian sense do not exist when you compare the usage of the word to a developed country. Nigeria's pseudo-factories produce consumer products mainly. Real Industries have long since collapsed because of huge operating costs that kill whatever profits they hope to make.

Pass the higher costs to the consumers? 7 out of every 10 Nigerians lives on less than $1 a day. How do you expect them to pay higher prices for services they cant afford in the first place?

Yes Nigeria's gas prices are 1/4th the cost of gas in the USA (lets assume you are right), what of the cost of maintaining the car? Is it higher or lower? How much does the average Nigerian earn compared to his American counterpart?
A doctor in Nigeria who earns N300,000 per month is earning at least 6 times less than a doctor on $150,000 p.a in the USA.

Ok, I don't know anything about the medical business. I've never seriously considered going into it.

Healthcare provision at a basic level is a government responsibility, everything cannot be a business to make profit on, these claims of 'private sector' running everything is dumb and myopic. it hasn't happened anywhere and it won't happen

even in the US, what was the situation before private companies came in? was there not an acceptable level of healthcare before it was now supplemented and improved by private sector run extablishments?

Donzman is just mouthing off about private this private that, how does this so called private sector get initialized?

businesses like power generation, refining of fuels and co can be private, but NOT healthcare and other essential social amenities.

Hospitals are not 'regulated', it is simply impossible for impoverished folk to begin to fork out the kind of money to develop hospitals that is being expected

what is the government supposed to do with the 30 - 40 billion in oil revenues yearly if not provide basic amenities?

build them first, then let the private people manage them for you under contract, that makes more sense

Donzman is just making flawed arguments all through, when there are cheaper products rom outside why would anybody patronise the manufacturers, why wont they close down?

abeg leave the dude, he's truly deluded in this private solution to everything, a warped understanding of how private enterprise grows in a suitable environment is lost on him

the biggest dam in the world, the 3 gorges dam producing 30,000MW was built by the chinese govt, why? to provide power for people to set up their factories, if they decided to 'wait' for 'private sector' they wouldnt be where they are today

@ Seun everything is not about business, essential services (healthcare, fire services, police) are not set up for profit making as driving force

I think it's about time we should look at the CUBA model, if Nigeria will ever be able to take care of its citizen

Cuba currently has over 2000 health professionals providing aid in 57 countries,they don't have(allow) private clinic or doctors The Cuban government operates a national health system and assumes full fiscal and administrative responsibility for the health care of its citizens.No private hospitals or clinics are permitted.

Did you know what Cuba medical schools capacity is? Thirty thousand! There are about 15000 studying medicine now, which of course includes some foreigners. Because the production of physicians came to exceed the country's internal requirements (Cuba's physician per population ratio is 1 per 255, as compared to 1 to 430 in the United States, Cuba has been able to export primary care practitioners and specialists for periods of service in other Third World nations. Decisions to send doctors abroad have responded to official requests by the governments of these countries. More than 10,000 Cuban physicians have served abroad, with as many as 1,500 at a single time

Perhaps the most important lesson that can come from studying public health in Cuba is the level of creativity, innovation and success that can be brought to bear to the benefit of a population's health through a simple but fundamental decision to make healthcare one of the highest priorities of a society and an economy.

Oga Donzman:
This is an argument that one cannot win. (But I insist that there are many private hospitals in Nigeria.)
People will not lose their faith in government. People won't stop believing in the magical abilities of government.
The important thing is to apply what you know to your career and to your business. And be very rich.

But: it's ridiculous to compare the salary of a doctor in Nigeria to that of a doctor in US. Cost of living is different.

The Cuba model? Ridiculous. If it's so wonderful, why are they all trying to get into the US? Grrr.

cuba's the best country so far, but capitalist leaders will never agree to a communist state because they r greedy and selfish.

@ least, if nothing else, the crime rate is really low,
they haven't got homeless people! imagine that!!

most doctors sent to america durin hurrican katrina were from cuba
yet the american govt banned americans frm goin to cuba directly




all these leaders, they should enjoy it while they can
because when the exploited masses break that chain holding them, no one'll pity for them!!

@debosky:

Posted by debosky

@ Seun everything is not about business, essential services (healthcare, fire services, police) are not set up for profit making as driving force

This is an excellent point.
While privatization is a great idea, we must not get carried away, a major percentage of health care establishment should still be based on Non profit organization standard.
This is the only way health care for an ordinary citizen can be taken serious.

there are enough private hospitals in nigeria.
the govt shd consider proving employment, increasing salaries and taxing people so they can afford a system like the NHS

@kellorah

Abeg,go easy on the Cuban example.If you think Cuba is so great,please go and live there

Cubans have voted with their feet(or is it there arms) by fleeing to the US.

If the government doesn't care about the citizens what makes you think private hospitals will give a damn?


Let's face the fact:

The System is corrupt and the culture is also corrupt.
It's all about how much one can make from a bad situation.

Hospitals in Nigeria (private or public) are not reliable; and it is the responsibility of the federal government to correct it.

Seun everything is not about business, essential services (healthcare, fire services, police) are not set up for profit making as driving force

What exactly are "essential" services?

Is food not more essential than healthcare? So why doesn't the government produce food for all of us?
Most Nigerians believe believe that religion is essential. Does this mean the government should be in charge?

The private sector can provide all essential services, except for the police, legal system, and maybe the army.

If the government doesn't care about the citizens what makes you think private hospitals will give a damn

If they don't give a damn about their customers, their customers won't give a damn about paying them.

kellorah:

there are enough private hospitals in nigeria.
the govt should consider proving employment, increasing salaries and taxing people so they can afford a system like the NHS

The priority of our government should not be on taxes. Let them do the basic stuff first. Government cannot magically provide employment where it has not provided an enabling environment for the economy to thrive. Increasing salaries only goes to increase inflation as the market woman too will iincrease the price of a congo of garri.

Let govt give us roads, water, electricity, healthcare and see the multiplier effect on the economy.

kellorah:

cuba's the best country so far, but capitalist leaders will never agree to a communist state because they r greedy and selfish.

And all of them are at the US borders?

Seun:


The private sector can provide all essential services

They can and nobody is saying they shouldn't.The question is,who should be the first point of call for 150 million (mostly poor)Nigerians?

I don't believe that the private sector will solve our healthcare problems.In the advanced nations,public healthcare is the norm for most with wealthier citizens using private health care.Nigeria won't be any different

@Seun

Posted by Seun

Is food not more essential than healthcare?  So why doesn't the government produce food for all of us?
Most Nigerians believe believe that religion is essential.  Does this mean the government should be in charge?

Health care is essential because:
you have choice when it comes to food for dinner,You also have choice when it comes to the church you want to join or attend, But you do not have choice of Disease you wish to have.

That's a bad analogy. Let me correct it for you.

You don't have a choice of what disease you might have.
SImilarly, you don't have a choice of whether to be hungry or not.

When you get hungry, you have a choice of which food to eat to satisfy it.
Similarly, when you get sick, you have a choice of where to treat it and which of the available treatments you prefer.

Government should definitely be in charge or else people will be dropping like flies left and right.

Furthermore there will be large numbers of fake doctors and hospitals

There's nothing like "fake doctor" or "fake hospital" just as there's nothing like "fake food".
Rather there's "bad doctor" and "bad hospital", just as you have "bad food" which may make you sick.
But despite the regulation of the food industry, it is still driven by the private sector. Healthcare can be the same.

Seun, believe me I love and fully in support for privatization in Nigeria more than anything, but when it comes to health care, (in a decent environment), government should still be in control.

the private sector does not provide healthcare for most people in the developed countries, private hospitals are in the minority, even in britain and the US

in Canada, there are only a handful, the system is dominantly run by government and is very efficient.

everything is not about customers and paying for services. even if you pay, it is not the value of the service you pay for in hospitals, its your contribution to your well being.

Where will this so called private sector come from, the masses of impoverished NIgerians?

let govt provide the basic amenities, roads, water, electricity and healthcare, then the so called private sector can begin to flourish

Cuba's medical system is excellent considering its resources and the limitations of US sanctions for almost 40 years. Nigeria is in a better position resource wise, and we can do much better

requiring everything from the private sector removes the need for government, police and army and legal system do not need 40 billion dollars a year

Seun:

But despite the regulation of the food industry, it is still driven by the private sector. Healthcare can be the same.

Do we have a food "industry"? Who regulates the garri seller?

In-fact Seun, I was at your home town (Ijebu) Sep 2005 for an event; I had the opportunity to visit two of the private hospitals around and I couldn't believe what I saw.

Health care should never never be a business, it should be a non profit organization that is controlled by the government.

just like every home person, they too want to go abroad. @ anti-cubans



if healthcare is privatised, u do know they will surely charge an awful lot
some things should be in the hands of the government, eventhough the government isn't doing it's job properly.

debosky:

the private sector does not provide healthcare for most people in the developed countries, private hospitals are in the minority, even in britain and the US

in Canada, there are only a handful, the system is dominantly run by government and is very efficient.

@debosky,

The US healthcare system is overwhelmingly private. People pay health insurance every month regardless whether they are sick or not.
Have you heared of HMO, PPO etc.  These org's manage the system and it is profit driven. Our system is different from that of  the UK and Canada.

If you get hurt in an accident, you must be attended to by the nearest hospital (THAT IS THE LAW). Then, they send you the bill. YOUR HMO/PPO then takes care of it for you. If you can't afford it,
govt kicks in - you get trapped in their bureaucracy.

But the overwhelming majority of Americans pay healthcare costs through health insurance.

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Now I have to admit that we are not yet ripe for that in Nigeria. Both government & private health facilities should co-exist. We really can't completely eliminate government healthcare, not any time soon anyway. There are too many underlying issues that have to be addressed before we reach that point.

even though the NHS can be annoying @ times, i think all countries should adopt it!


imagine payin for health insurance, and when u don't have ur card (or whatever) u don't get seen to-it's sad.

Even in Canada, everyone pays health insurance monthly, that defrays the cost, but you don't pay the cost of the healthcare, its still primarily the government's responsibility

the govt has launched the NHIS in Nigeria, if people contribute to the scheme and the government does its part, then we will be fine

at least that law keeps you alive, in Naija, they'll say go pay 50,000 before we treat you, after which you die because of no money.

lol, they ask for 'deposit', when it's a matter of life and death

If the country is organized the way I want it, most people will have that 50,000 naira. And those few that don't have will be able to reach out to friends and family members to get the money. Personal responsibility is good.

If people are personally responsible, they will set aside some money during good times to get them through bad times. They won't spend it all and then expect government to take cae of them when they get sick. And they'll voluntarily get health insurance to pay for unexpected and expensive calamities like cancer and heart problems.