viaro:

Absolutely NOT. . . unless you want to tell us that the best that the atheist can do is resort to rhetorics where he/she is running out of steam. It says nothing about your telling us anything about the knowledge you possess of any 'origins science' (make your pick, there are many "origins sciences" today). The basic question is this: did the Universe create itself? No one needs any 'rhetorics' to make any informed statements on that - and any "conclusions" you draw should also be questioned, NO?

Here you are asking me for evidence when you are yet to provide a SINGLE evidence for your own assertions. Again your evidence to show that the universe did not create it self is WHAT?. . . My position with regards to the origin of the universe as always been that nobody truly KNOWS, how the universe came about. I fact we do not fully know what the universe is talk more of fully knowing about its origins. It was not until about 10 years ago that we just discovered that some of the starts out there are solar systems just like our ours. . .We are yet to fully discover what the universe is. . .My sincere position is I don't know and am very ok with it. . .Any body that claims he knows should provide evidence to show for it. . . .I JUST LOVE playing the games you guys love playing that is asserting things without evidence so that you guys will see how illogical it sounds. . .

Pardon me (I know you're addressing beneli); but I wonder if any science says that God did NOT create them? That is the point we have been trying to make, mazaje - don't make science say what it does not say, for to do so is to boldly mislead your readers. If science has made any statements about "God" or "creation", then you would have a point; but to foist your own argument and plaster it on "science" saying this and that (which it does not say) becomes quite a worrisome trend to read in your posts.
And your hypothesis that the Universe created itself is even far more interesting, no?

Your God said he created the universe and he gave a detail account of how he allegedly created the universe in genesis no? Science has shown that, that hypothesis is flat out wrong. . . . .The way your god said he created the universe is still there for all to read in genesis, no?. . . .Can you provide evidence to show that the universe was truly created according to how your God said he created it in the book of genesis? Its shouldn't be a hard thing to do since the details are already there in genesis. no?

toba:

Guy dont be childish. I think we have gone past this stage of making excuses for ones statement. Im sure u didnt make a case for the universe creating it self without consciousness. U were actually going to prove some sort of new '[size=30pt]'mazaje's theory of universe creating it self'[/size] pls dont hide under any form of others' making assertions and u also wanting to do same. The theists that makes assertions do result to show u evidences which most athesits refuse to accept it that they arent empirical or materialistic. The above bolded is a big lie. If u are given evidence by the theist u purposesly turn it down.

You guys are truly funny believe me. . . .The fact that the irony of the point I was trying to make escapes you guys is truly laughable. . . . .

Now u must back up your assertion/conclusion that the universe could have created it self with any form of evidence

When you provide evidence to show that the universe did not create itself, I will be right there with my evidence to show that the universe created itself. . . .

mazaje:


You guys are truly funny believe me. . . .The fact that the irony of the point I was trying to make escapes you guys is truly laughable. . . . .

Let me know the ridiculous point u were trying to make

mazaje:

When you provide evidence to show that the universe did not create itself, I will be right there with my evidence to show that the universe created itself. . . .

U want me to believe what viaro said that u are looking for an escape route abi?

U started it by concluding that the universe created it self. Kindly prove it then we follow suit. Or didnt u make the conclusion?

mazaje:

. . .Since nothing has ever been shown to have created the universe i concluded that It created it self(my opinion of course). . . .I am not supposed to be arguing with you since I know that you god did not create the universe, the universe he created in in genesis 1. . . .That is not the universe we see and live it. . .

How come is based on logical reasoning?

toba:

Let me know the ridiculous point u were trying to make

Ahhh, Ok let me explain so that you understand what am saying. You have been positing that your God created the universe, yet you have NEVER provided any evidence for such assertion but you keep repeating that mantra over and over again. I then came up with my own assertion that the universe created itself with out evidence just like you. Funny enough you fell for the bait and started asking me to provide evidence for my assertion, when you are yet to provide a SINGLE evidence for your own assertions. . . .Do you now understand why I keep saying that the fact that the irony escapes you is very laughable to me. . .

U want me to believe what viaro said that u are looking for an escape route abi?

. . .escape route to where?. . . .

U started it by concluding that the universe created it self. Kindly prove it then we follow suit. Or didnt u make the conclusion?
How come is based on logical reasoning?

Again I will show you when you provide evidence to show that your own version of God created the universe and that the universe did not create itself. . . .So after you my friend. . .

mazaje:

I laugh, So because some atheist hold the view that the universe was eternal means all atheist hold the same view eh?. . . .Some theist also believe that the universe is eternal, no?

That's an unusual excuse that is becoming a bore. I DID NOT assert or infer that 'ALL ATHEISTS' held the same view; but you cannot deny that the prevailing atheistic view (among many atheists) was that the Universe had always existed. I don't know how many "theists" held the view that the Universe was eternal (in the sense that it had no beginning); but as far as I can remember, the prevailing worldview among theists is that the Universe had a beginning.

However, you cleverly ducked the question I offered you directly: What do you mean by 'NOT the views of atheist', mazaje? I very much wanted you to deal with that issue, although I will not press it upon you. It so happens that it seems you were denying flat out that the atheistic assumption at one time was that the Universe always existed - that view, after failing to show any basis for it, has collapsed upon itself and is no longer confidently asserted as it once was. . . nevermind that some atheists are trying to find ways of reharshing the same baseless arguments in new clichés and neologisms.

mazaje:

Maybe. But that again does not mean that NO ATHEIST held the view that the Universe had always existed, if that is what you trying to tell us here.

So what exactly are you arguing about?

Please tell me, mazaje, what you meant by the argument that the view that the Universe had always existed was "NOT the views of atheist" - just let me know what you were trying to argue there. I have made clear that such an assertion from you was plainly denying the fact; so let me know if you are trying to keep up that false assertion of yours, or you're going to tacitly admit you were in error.

mazaje:

That's all you want to do it seems arguing around chasing shadows. . .My position on this is well know, I have stated MANY times that no body fully knows for sure how the universe came about. My statement was just a rhetorical statement, The fact that the irony escapes you is truly laughable. Your posit that Your God created the universe, Without providing a SINGLE evidence to show, I also posited that the universe created it self rhetorically to show you how illogical your argument is. . . .I have always stated that NO one knows how the universe came about, and as such I will prefer when people say that they don't know instead of positing hypothesis that they themselves can not defend.

I have not posited what I was not ready to defend. On the other hand, it is laughable that you could make an assertion and when called up for it, make endless excuses that you were making a rhetorical statement. What a laugh indeed! The simple point that has often eluded you (and we know why) is this: the Universe was created - it did not emerge on its own. We may disagree on details as regarding "origins"; but it is even far laughable to keep trumpeting ignorance as if it was the grandest thing about what you assert. The usual atheistic thing is to feign ignorance under agnosticism (I don't know), and yet never seek to address what is in front of him: the Universe did not self-exist, that is the point. You argue to the contrary; and I'm all ears to consider what you have to say that establishes your argument - but rather than man up to it, you go on and on about assertions that you have never sat down to discuss after several pages!

mazaje:
Scientist have provided some empirical evidence (at least) with regards to the nature of the universe and how its is evolving, Some of them even theorize their own origin of earth with some evidence to show for they theories, Those evidence can be observed and verified to some extent, when those observable evidence are compared with the way your God said he created the universe we see that your God's account of creation does not match any of the observable evidence and as such can be said to have been shown to be flat out wrong by scientific findings and observations.

I think it's clear that it's eaither you're getting your marbles all confused or you just like to repeat these statements that are quite not up to scratch on course. Let me try to see if I can help:

Although not a scientist or cosmologist, I am very aware of 'Origins Science' in various places (eg., UCL Institute of Origins; McMaster Origins Institute, Canada; and Institute for the Science of Origins, among others). The point is: I'm not aware of any of these established institutions or their researches coming to the conclusion that the Universe self-existed or emerged completely on its own or was not created at any point. NONE of them draw such a conclusion - there is no science or research to such a conclusion. Now, mazaje, if you know of any origins science that proclaims a self-existent Universe, please please and please, let us read such a paper from you . . it is possible that viaro might've missed it.

These origins science insititutes are not into details of trying to falsify 'creation', nor are they into details of how or not a supernatural Being or Agent brought the Universe into existence point-by-point. Basically, what we are asking you is simple enough: do the sciences lead to the atheistic argument you have been making all along to suppose that the Universe would have come into existence entirely on its own? If you can show us a clear scientific paper on that assumption, please do so without further ado.

mazaje:
Still chasing after your tail? . . . .Ohh so the creation accounts in genesis is truly how the universe came around eh?. . . Why does the observable and scientific evidence point to another direction?

Just show us how the Universe came into existence entirely on its own.

mazaje:

Here you are asking me for evidence when you are yet to provide a SINGLE evidence for your own assertions. Again your evidence to show that the universe did not create it self is WHAT?. . . My position with regards to the origin of the universe as always been that nobody truly KNOWS, how the universe came about. I fact we do not fully know what the universe is talk more of fully knowing about its origins. It was not until about 10 years ago that we just discovered that some of the starts out there are solar systems just like our ours. . .We are yet to fully discover what the universe is. . .My sincere position is I don't know and am very ok with it.  

You are making two conflicting statements @ the bolded.

Ur sincere u dont know but unsincere opinion nobody knows ?

That u dont know is not a crime making a generalized statement is wrong that nobody knows because you mazaje doesnt know the source of the universe. U re just being ridiculous and insincere about ur view on the universe. U dont know u then want to drag 'all' into ur lack of knowledge on same.

Science proved the genesis account wrong why cant science then tell us the source of universe till date? Science and mazaje doesnt know meaning others cant know as well? Dont forget that science have failed to provide answers to many things. Let me also conclude like u did  that u and science does not know that God created the universe

mazaje:

Here you are asking me for evidence when you are yet to provide a SINGLE evidence for your own assertions. Again your evidence to show that the universe did not create it self is WHAT

If your argument is that the Universe created itself, please show me the evidence - from ANY SCIENCE.

I think your atheism has become such a bore - you make so muhc noise up and down the street, but never stay on course to address one assumption in what you argue. You can't escape this point, mazaje (unless escapism is now your forté) - if the Universe created itself, please show us your evidence. Coming back to shout that it was another one of your rhetorics would simply mean you're quite a mischievous fellow indeed.

mazaje:

My position with regards to the origin of the universe as always been that nobody truly KNOWS, how the universe came about. I fact we do not fully know what the universe is talk more of fully knowing about its origins.

Okay, nobody truly knows about what you have been so confidently asserting about the origins of the Universe, no? Yet, you have been talking about "observable evidence" to the contrary! This is the most brainless discussion I ever had the fortune to read from you - it is worse than a joke or your rhetorics!! 

In other words, you've been having the pleasure of kidding yourself and making fun of your readers:

mazaje:
. . .I JUST LOVE playing the games you guys love playing that is asserting things without evidence so that you guys will see how illogical it sounds.

Thank you . .  at least, when I discuss with you, I point you to what researchers are saying and not what they are NOT saying. So, if they have not been saying that the Universe created itself, nor have they argued anything against the possibility of the Universe having been created, what are you on about, mazaje? You're the only one who wants to believe you're logical by making assertions that are neither here nor there - only to end up marking time on the same spot!

mazaje:
.Your God said he created the universe and he gave a detail account of how he allegedly created the universe in genesis no? Science has shown that, that hypothesis is flat out wrong.

Science has not shown any thing about what you assert - that is just another joke you want to cheaply chip in and let your atheism run wild. This is why you cannot show us anything about where science asserts that the Universe was not created - rather, the prevailing atheistic assumption that the Universe had always existed has been abandoned and relagated to a blackhole, go figure. It's fun seeing how you are foisting your own blank statements upon "science" . . .  dude, why do atheists like cheating like that? How long are you going to keep spreading this gangrene about science saying what it does not say?

@ viaro it would be very hard to find a sincere atheist and mazaje is just confirming that with his ridiculous posts, by trying to twist things around in his favour rather than from the side of truth. This might not even get anywhere due to his actions

toba:

@ viaro it would be very hard to find a sincere atheist and mazaje is just confirming that with his ridiculous posts, by trying to twist things around in his favour rather than from the side of truth. This might not even get anywhere due to his actions

I think mazaje is a cool guy, though. . . it took me this long to realise he's just taking us on a wild run while sitting back laughing behind the PC. Good for kicks, though. . . the guy is one hell of an interesting bloke - just don't take him any seriously.

mazaje:

Ahhh, Ok let me explain so that you understand what am saying. You have been positing that your God created the universe, yet you have NEVER provided any evidence for such assertion but you keep repeating that mantra over and over again. I then came up with my own assertion that the universe created itself with out evidence just like you. Funny enough you fell for the bait and started asking me to provide evidence for my assertion, when you are yet to provide a SINGLE evidence for your own assertions. . . .Do you now understand why I keep saying that the fact that the irony escapes you is very laughable to me. . .

U are just repeating same post over and over again with no sense. Stop pretending face the fact. u taught u could support ur nasty assertion about the univesre creating it self when u first made it. After going round the web to seek a way out u came back and turned it in to a an incredible 'irony'. We are no kids here. If u want to be serious, try to be and stop chasing shadows

mazaje:

. . .escape route to where?. . . .

Escape from proving what u have asserted

mazaje:

Again I will show you when you provide evidence to show that your own version of God created the universe and that the universe did not create itself. . . .So after you my friend. . .

I have heard this couple of times from insincere atheist like your self

viaro:

I think mazaje is a cool guy, though. . . it took me this long to realise he's just taking us on a wild run while sitting back laughing behind the PC. Good for kicks, though. . . the guy is one hell of an interesting bloke - just don't take him any seriously.

Lailai the guy is doing this seriously and hes not joking.

Any way im going home to sleep after a hard days work


[size=25pt] [/size]

viaro:

I have not posited what I was not ready to defend.

What exactly are you arguing about? That the universe had a beginning or that your God created the universe?. . .As for the universe having a begging, all scientific explanations points to that. So that's a non starter. Are you still insisting that you God created the universe?. . . .If you are still insisting can you provide evidence for your claims?. . . .Thank you. . .

On the other hand, it is laughable that you could make an assertion and when called up for it, make endless excuses that you were making a rhetorical statement.

Why are you trying so hard to make it look as if I sincerely believe in that statement.  . . . .I just dey laugh tire. Don't you see the irony?. . .The statement remains a rhetorical one, even though you wish it wasn't, You should know my position by now. . .I have stated so many times that I don't know and am OK with what the scientific  findings show. . .You on the other hand are desperately trying to make me own up to a rhetorical statement that was aimed at making you see your own illogical arguments(Which is arguing with out evidence). . .You posit without evidence and run away, but when someone does the same you begin to cry . . .So funny. . .

Just show us how the Universe came into existence entirely on its own.

I will do that immediately you provide evidence to show that your God created the universe. . . .

toba:

U are just repeating same post over and over again with no sense. Stop pretending face the fact. u taught u could support your nasty assertion about the univesre creating it self when u first made it.

You should already know my position by now, I was only asking a rhetorical question, Just to get your reaction so that I can use it to point to you how illogical and baseless your arguments are. You know it but will prefer to be chasing shadows. You keep insisting that your God created the universe. I have asked you so many many times to provide a SINGLE evidence for that claim and you have consistently refused to do that. When I turn around and make the same claim, you start crying that I should provide evidence for my claims forgetting the FACT that you have NEVER provided any evidence for your baseless claims. . .

After going round the web to seek a way out u came back and turned it in to a an incredible 'irony'. We are no kids here. If u want to be serious, try to be and stop chasing shadowsEscape from proving what u have assertedI have heard this couple of times from insincere atheist like your self

You wish. . .When have you ever proved anything you have asserted here? . . .I repeat, I'll provide my evidence as soon as you provide yours. . .

mazaje:

You should already know my position by now, I was only asking a rhetorical question, Just to get your reaction so that I can use it to point to you how illogical and baseless your arguments are. You know it but will prefer to be chasing shadows. You keep insisting that your God created the universe. I have asked you so many many times to provide a SINGLE evidence for that claim and you have consistently refused to do that. When I turn around and make the same claim, you start crying that I should provide evidence for my claims forgetting the FACT that you have NEVER provided any evidence for your baseless claims. . .

Do u now know that the universe didnt create it self but was created

mazaje:

You wish. . .When have you ever proved anything you have asserted here? . . .I repeat, I'll provide my evidence as soon as you provide yours. . .

Still same story

jesus.:

You are making two conflicting statements @ the bolded.

your sincere u dont know but unsincere opinion nobody knows ?

No conflicting statements there at all, These statements are based on the FACT which is that NOBODY TRULY knows how the universe came about, All we have are mere speculations, some baseless and unfounded while some have some amout of evidence to back them up, but they still remain speculation nonetheless. . .If any body truly knows that origin of the universe it would have been provided already. Remember we are just getting to know what the universe truly is, It was just about 10 years ago that we discovered that some of the stars out there are solar systems with planets revolving around them just like ours. . .

That u dont know is not a crime making a generalized statement is wrong that nobody knows because you mazaje doesnt know the source of the universe. U re just being ridiculous and insincere about your view on the universe. U dont know u then want to drag 'all' into your lack of knowledge on same.

Do you know who, how and when the universe was created? If you do can you provide objective evidence for such claims? Saying that your God created the universe is nothing but a very redundant hypothesis that is of no use at all because every religion (of which there are many) also claims that its God or Goddess created the universe, Specific evidence pointing to your God alone creating the universe will do. . . .I don't have time for baseless hypothesis. . .I am more interested in people providing evidence for their claims. . . .

Science proved the genesis account wrong why cant science then tell us the source of universe till date? Science and mazaje doesnt know meaning others cant know as well? Dont forget that science have failed to provide answers to many things. Let me also conclude like u did  that u and science does not know that God created the universe

Science is taking us there gradually. . .Science remains the BEST hope for mankind, Science has done for mankind what no God will ever do for mankind. . .Again claiming that God created the universe is just redundant since there are so many Gods all claiming to have created the universe, I will like you to show  with objective evidence that your God alone created the universe.

toba:

Do u now know that the universe didnt create it self but was created

The universe was created by the Chinese(Tungus) God called Buga . Your evidence that he didn't cerated the universe is what?. . . .

Still same story

It seems you have now run out of gas. . .

toba:

Lailai the guy is doing this seriously and hes not joking.

Well, what can I say. . . I've had a good laugh at him anyways, so I don't take anything he says seriously (since he's not presenting anything serious).

mazaje:

The universe was created by the Chinese(Tungus) God called Buga . [size=15pt]Your evidence that he didn't cerated the universe is what?. . . .  [/size]

Why are u talking like an 'educated illiterate?  U asserted u are also requesting prove for an assertion that is yet to be disproved. Is this u or u re simply joking? Let me know before i make my next comment

mazaje:

It seems you have now run out of gas. . .

which type of gas?

viaro:

Well, what can I say. . . I've had a good laugh at him anyways, so I don't take anything he says seriously (since he's not presenting anything serious).

Mazaje`shouldnt be taking seriously with this

mazaje:

The universe was created by the Chinese(Tungus) God called Buga . Your evidence that he didn't cerated the universe is what?. . . . 

It seems you have now run out of gas. . .

where as this is what i asked

toba:

Do u now know that the universe didnt create it self but was created

before he responded ignorantly with the above

mazaje:

What exactly are you arguing about? That the universe had a beginning or that your God created the universe?. . .As for the universe having a begging, all scientific explanations points to that. So that's a non starter. Are you still insisting that you God created the universe?. . . .If you are still insisting can you provide evidence for your claims?. . . .Thank you.

I think my premise has been presented in many ways than one so you can easily digest. It is not an argument that the Universe had a beginning (which is a given), or that the Universe having a beginning is explained by science (another given) - but the point is this: the Universe DID NOT create itself, and as such it was created by God.

If your argument is saying that God DID NOT create the Universe, I have expressed my willingness to consider your evidence for that. I don't see you presenting anything remotely close to that other than complaining here and there about which God would have created the Universe.

You can't keep hiding under excuses and rhetorics - it is the best thing I know an atheist would ever do so as to escape responsibility of arguing any substance at any time. Yes, we can both say "we don't know" - that is, you don't know anything about the ORIGIN of the Universe; while I don't know the DETAILS about the origins of the Universe. But we can't both escape the basic point: was the Universe created or did it created itself. You seem to argue yourself out of the latter (the Universe created itself); and I am persuaded that the Universe was created by God.

Coming back to pretend that you were only making your assertions merely on "rhetorics" makes one wonder why you even bother to argue long and hard on absolutely NOTHING. First, you told us that NOTHING created the Universe - and your evidence? NOTHING. Next you "concluded" that the Universe created itself - and your evidence? RHETORICS. If this type of behaviour is the quitessential display we should read in your approach to issues, let's all slap our backs and retire to our evening baths, yes? Yay!

Mazaje my guy, you've been fun to talk with. . . nevermind that it took me all this time to see your dribbling was all a joke. Next time, I won't even waste this much time trying to catch up with your rhetorics.

Have fun.

toba:

Why are u talking like an 'educated illiterate?  U asserted u are also requesting prove for an assertion that is yet to be disproved. Is this u or u re simply joking? Let me know before i make my next comment

OK sorry. . . . . . Buga created the universe. . .

which type of gas?

Nerve gas . . . .

mazaje:



OK sorry. . . . . . Buga created the universe. . .

I may not doubt it but tell me WTH is buga first

mazaje:

Nerve gas . . . .

Im as strong as a giant to continue all through the night cus tomorrow i have an assignment very far away from Lagos to go catch money. I cant miss that one

viaro:

I think my premise has been presented in many ways than one so you can easily digest. It is not an argument that the Universe had a beginning (which is a given), or that the Universe having a beginning is explained by science (another given) - but the point is this: the Universe DID NOT create itself, and as such it was created by God.

OK, Your evidence to show that your God created the universe is WHAT?. . . .Saying that your God as we are meant to believe created the universe remains an assumption.  . . . .Can you provide objective evidence to show that what ever created the universe speaks Hebrew?. . .Did that God appear to you and told you personally that he created the universe? Do you have his signature with his name on anything that was created that will show that he created the universe alone without any of the competing Gods that are also making such a claim?

If your argument is saying that God DID NOT create the Universe, I have expressed my willingness to consider your evidence for that. I don't see you presenting anything remotely close to that other than complaining here and there about which God would have created the Universe.

No God has ever claimed that he created the universe? Men posit that their various Gods created the universe.

You can't keep hiding under excuses and rhetorics - it is the best thing I know an atheist would ever do so as to escape responsibility of arguing any substance at any time. Yes, we can both say "we don't know" - that is, you don't know anything about the ORIGIN of the Universe; while I don't know the DETAILS about the origins of the Universe. But we can't both escape the basic point: was the Universe created or did it created itself. You seem to argue yourself out of the latter (the Universe created itself); and I am persuaded that the Universe was created by God.

So now its persuasions eh?

Coming back to pretend that you were only making your assertions merely on "rhetorics" makes one wonder why you even bother to argue long and hard on absolutely NOTHING. First, you told us that NOTHING created the Universe - and your evidence? NOTHING. Next you "concluded" that the Universe created itself - and your evidence? RHETORICS. If this type of behaviour is the quitessential display we should read in your approach to issues, let's all slap our backs and retire to our evening baths, yes? Yay!

You are trying so hard my friend , I have stated many many times and I have argued with you as well that my position remains "I don't know" . I have always stated that I don't know the actual cause of the universe how it was created or what brought it into existence, but what I know is that it is NOT any of the Gods of man made religion. . .When I posited that nothing created the universe it was just a rhetorical point, You KNOW it but you choose to run around shadows, Continue if it'll make you happy. The fact that you prefer to keep chasing around it is very telling. . . .

Mazaje my guy, you've been fun to talk with. . . nevermind that it took me all this time to see your dribbling was all a joke. Next time, I won't even waste this much time trying to catch up with your rhetorics.

Have fun.

I have not been dribbling, and am VERY serious here, The fact that the irony of what has transpired escapes you is completely unbelievable to me. . .Any I know, why you keep running around chasing your tail, you have nothing of value to say so dancing around my rhetorical statement is the only thing that you have left. . . .Enjoy dancing around. . .I might learn a few dance moves from you. . .

mazaje:

I have not been dribbling, and am VERY serious here, The fact that the irony of what has transpired escapes you is completely unbelievable to me. . .Any I know, why you keep running around chasing your tail, you have nothing of value to say so dancing around my rhetorical statement is the only thing that you have left. . . .Enjoy dancing around. . .I might learn a few dance moves from you. . .

This guy^^ is one funny chap.

First, you're VERY serious. . . but when you're asked serious questions, then you sweep your assertions under "rhetorics", no? Why are you skidding like this?

Look, if we take you seriously WITHOUT your rhetorics and ask you to stand to your assertion that the Universe created itself, would we expect to read again that we should laugh it off as one of your rhetorics? That is most interesting. . . because it makes me wonder that you're happy to be neither here nor there - and I don't know how many people you read here who are changing positions and claining rhetorics in this thread.

Bottomline is that we don't see any consistency in your position. Forget the drama of all that unnecessary 'rhetos' and then coming back to say you're VERY serious - it won't wash.

Our website is up: www.cactilio.com/nss
Join the group Nigeria Skeptical Society

profibadan:

Our website is up: www.cactilio.com/nss
Join the group Nigeria Skeptical Society

Hope u ve not reaped ur new invitees

profibadan:

Our website is up: www.cactilio.com/nss
Join the group Nigeria Skeptical Society

lol i have to say one of the most ridiculous claims i have ever read from your likes is that those who dont subscribe to supernatural claims are necessarily "scientific-minded".

If this thread is an example of profibadan's scientific mind then one wonders what he truly means when he just throws around the word "science" so carelessly. It seems most confused atheists have resorted to using "science" as a cloak for their own ignorance.

I hope they realise that some of the greatest thinkers of our time (Isaac Newton for example) where christians too.

Please our intention is to have a platform for people of like-minds to share opinion. is there a crime in that. I am also asking that people come to our new website and register so that we can relate and solidarize. Visit www.cactilio.com/nss to join the Nigeria Skeptical Society

profibadan:

Please our intention is to have a platform for people of like-minds to share opinion. is there a crime in that. I am also asking that people come to our new website and register so that we can relate and solidarize. Visit www.cactilio.com/nss to join the Nigeria Skeptical Society

lol relate and solidarize but dont build it on castigating christianity.

Please let us stop using the fallacy of Appeal to authority to justify our claims.John Newton was a Christian who wrote many hymns, Issac Newton was a Deist. Read up that. Plus that a scientist is a christian does not mean that Christianity is right, There are so many professors who are Muslims, and some follow Olumbaba, A professor is just a teacher.

profibadan:

Please let us stop using the fallacy of Appeal to authority to justify our claims.John Newton was a Christian who wrote many hymns, Issac Newton was a Deist. Read up that. Plus that a scientist is a christian does not mean that Christianity is right, There are so many professors who are Muslims, and some follow Olumbaba, A professor is just a teacher.

this is absolute bull. One we have seen played here over and over again. Anytime a respected authority is put forward as a christian we get the nonsensical claim that such a person was a "deist".

First lets even define a deism - Deism (pronounced /ˈdiːɪzəm/, us dict: dē′·ĭzm)[1][2] is [size=13pt]a religious and philosophical belief that a supreme being created the universe[/size], and that this (and religious truth in general) can be determined using reason and observation of the natural world alone, without the need for either faith or organized religion.

Does that square with your own "skeptical society"? Do you also subscribe to the claim that God existed AND created the universe as Isaac Newton believed? Should we then assume that Newton was not "scientifically-minded"?