davidylan:

That is ACTUALLY not true. Skepticism, as shown by your likes is simply a reflection of a mindset that is CLOSED to rational thinking. One that is not based on a method of "questioning claims".

What you have said is not true. How is the skeptic mindset closed to rational thinking? Skeptics simply do not believe claims made without good supporting evidence. Skeptics are in fact the ones who are open minded because they will look at the claims made and not just dismiss it out of hand unless it has been examined before and the claimant has nothing new to add.

Religious people on the other hand may have no rational basis or have some superficially rational basis for thinking the way they do but under better examination, it becomes clear that the reason does not hold. But they go on believing and carrying out this ritual anyway. This is a demonstration of a closed mindset.

davidylan:

I hear skeptics crying about seeking rational answers to who Christ is . . . but i dont see anywhere those same Nigerian skeptics have ever done anything with their alleged minds to solve other pressing social or scientific problems.

How are the two related? Some skeptics do both, some do none of them.

davidylan:

This is no different from atheism.

How does atheism give room to blind faith?

davidylan:

That is ACTUALLY not true. Skepticism, as shown by your likes is simply a reflection of a mindset that is CLOSED to rational thinking. One that is not based on a method of "questioning claims". I hear skeptics crying about seeking rational answers to who Christ is . . . but i dont see anywhere those same Nigerian skeptics have ever done anything with their alleged minds to solve other pressing social or scientific problems.

This is no different from atheism.

The way you spew rubbish of this forum as if you have any idea of what you are talking about is ridiculous and pathetic. . .Were you not the same person that said some time ago that your religion requires 100% faith and loyalty? Where you not the same person that stated that proof should be left for maths and science labs?. . . .Now the same goon is here talking about questioning claims, Which of the claims of your religion have you questioned? . . . .Some times you wonder who gives these goons the opportunity to come on the internet and continiously make a fool of themselves. . . .

mazaje:

My atheism is based on the FACT that all gods and all religions are man made

Where is your empirical evidence of this FACT?

mazaje:

The way you spew rubbish of this forum as if you have any idea of what you are talking about is ridiculous and pathetic. . .Were you not the same person that said some time ago that your religion requires 100% faith and loyalty? Where you not the same person that stated that proof should be left for maths and science labs?. . . .Now the same goon is here talking about questioning claims, Which of the claims of your religion have you questioned? . . . .Some times you wonder who gives these goons the opportunity to come on the internet and continiously make a fool of themselves. . . .

Where is the attempt to address the issues? tired, evasive and brainless attempts to shift issues to brainless insults is the reason i stay away from here as much as possible now. Argh.

thehomer:

What you have said is not true. How is the skeptic mindset closed to rational thinking? Skeptics simply do not believe claims made without good supporting evidence. Skeptics are in fact the ones who are open minded because they will look at the claims made and not just dismiss it out of hand unless it has been examined before and the claimant has nothing new to add.

This is nonsense no offence here pls. If you had said that skeptics do not believe christian claims then fine . . . there ARE MILLIONS of claims YOU MINDLESSLY BELIEVE WITH NO supporting evidence! For example, how do you know a God doesnt exist? Have you PROVED THIS empirically and can provide us conclusive evidence?

You believe God didnt create the earth right? Where is your proof that anyone else did?

thehomer:

Religious people on the other hand may have no rational basis or have some superficially rational basis for thinking the way they do but under better examination, it becomes clear that the reason does not hold. But they go on believing and carrying out this ritual anyway. This is a demonstration of a closed mindset.

what is your rational basis for thinking God doesnt exist? The false logic that says "lack of evidence = no evidence"?

thehomer:

How does atheism give room to blind faith?

atheism = blind faith that God doesnt exist without proof.

davidylan:

Where is your empirical evidence of this FACT?

Here it is. . . Men have been creating Gods and Godesses all through out human history. . . .ALL Gods REMAIN man made


Abonde (Abundia - Perchta - Satia - Habundie)
Intrinsically linked with the classical goddess Diana, Abonde led nocturnal hordes of witches through homes and cellars, eating and drinking all they could find. If food and drink were left as offerings, Abonde would bestow prosperity upon the occupants of the home. If nothing was left out for her and her followers, she would deny the denizens of her blessings and protection.

According to Roman de la Rose, written at the end of the thirteenth century, thirdborn children were obligated to travel with Abonde three times a week to the homes of neighbours. Nothing could stop
these people, as they became incorporeal in the company of Abonde. Only their souls would travel as their bodies remained behind immobile. There was a downside to this astral projection: if the body was turned over while the soul was elsewhere, the soul would never return.

Aditi (Limitless)
Hindu Mother Goddess, self-formed, the Cosmic Matrix. Mother of the Sun God Mitra and the Moon God Varuna.

Ambika
Hindu, 'the generatrix,' wife of Shiva or of Rudra.

Annapurna
Hindu. Goddess who provides food; she lives on top of Mount Annapurna.

Aphrodite (Foam-Born)
Greek Goddess of sexual love. She was born of the bloody foam of the sea where Cronus threw the genitals of his father Uranus after castrating him. Married, on Zeus's orders, to the lame Smith God Hephaestus, and unfaithful to him with the war God Ares. She was in fact an ancient East Mediterranean Goddess and can be equated with Astarte.

Apollo (Phoebus, the Bright One)
Greek. Identified with the sun. Said to be the most powerful of the Gods. Son of Zeus and Leto. Born on Delos, taken North and raised by the hyperboreans, he went to Delphi and killed the dragon Python, guardian of the oracle of Themis, but a ravager of the countryside. Tall, handsome, outstanding in word and deed, he was the god of ever-renewed youth, archetype of virile beauty and masculine virtue. He was also known as a seducer & extremely arrogant. Talented in music,  inventor of the lyre,  he was the inspiration of poets and soothsayers. His oracles were expressed in verse. He could cure illness and banish evil. He was a doctor who knew the purification rites and was invoked against plague. His image was set at dangerous places for protection (Lighting the ways) Nothing escaped his vision (light of day).
 
Arachne
Greek Spider Goddess. A Lydian girl skilled in weaving, she dared to challenge Athene to compete with her. The contest was held, and Arachne's work was faultless: impudently, it portrayed some of the Gods' less reputable deeds, including Athene's father Zeus abducting Europa. Furious, Athene turned her into a spider, doomed eternally to spin thread drawn from her own body. But the Spider Goddess is more archetypal than this story suggests: spinning and weaving the pattern of destiny like the Moerae or the Norns, and enthroned in the middle of her spiral-pathed stronghold like Arianrhod. Athene here represents Athenian patriarchal thinking, trying to discipline earlier
Goddess-concepts.

Aradia
(Italy, Tuscany) Witch Goddess, surviving there into this century. Daughter of Diana and Diana's brother Lucifer (i.e. of the Moon and Sun), she came to Earth to teach the witches her mother's magic.

Ariadne
Cretan and Greek. The daughter of King Minos of Crete, who with her her cunning thread helped Theseus find his way into the labyrinth to kill the Minotaur, and out again. She eloped with him, but he abandoned her on the island of Naxos. She was consoled by Dionysus, who in her
Naxos cult was regarded as her consort.

Aries (Mars)
Greek. Son of Hera, born without male assistance. He was a supreme fighter, loved battle and cared little about issues, switching sides without scruple. He delighted in massacres. He was god of war, not victory, and was thoughtless about winning, only fighting. Was on occasion disarmed by Athena,  Goddess of restraint and forethought,  to keep him from interfering in battles that did not concern him. He was prolific in love, but also a rapist. He was run by his passions.

Arianrhod (Silver Wheel)
Major Welsh Goddess. Mother of Llew Llau Gyffes by her brother Gwydion. Her consort Nwyvre ('Sky, Space, Firmament') has survived in name only. Caer Arianrhod is the circumpolar stars, to which souls withdraw between incarnations; she is thus a Goddess of reincarnation. Honoured at the Full Moon.

Artemis
Greek Nature and Moon Goddess. Daughter of Zeus and Leto, and twin sister of Apollo (though a day older). She probably absorbed a pre-Indo-European Sun Goddess, and her twinning in classical legend with the Sun God Apollo may stem from this. The Greeks assimilated her to a pre-Greek mistress of wild beasts. Bears were sacred to her, and she was associated with the constellation Ursa Major.

Ashtaroth (Astaroth)
Ashtaroth was usually depicted as an ugly demon riding a dragon and carrying a viper in his left hand. He was the Treasurer of Hell, and was also the Grand Duke of its western regions. He encouraged sloth and idleness.

Ashtaroth was one of two demons prayed to in the Black Masses of Catherine Monvoisin, Madame  de Montespan (mistress of Louis XIV), and a 67-year-old priest by the name of Guibourg. (The other demon prayed to was Asmodeus.)

Asmodeus
Asmodeus was one of the busiest demons. He was not only the overseer of all the gambling houses in the court of Hell, but the general spreader of dissipation. On top of that, Asmodeus was the demon of lust, personally responsible for stirring up matrimonial trouble. Maybe it was because he came from the original dysfunctional family. According to Jewish legend, his mother was a mortal woman, Naamah, and his father was one of the fallen angels.

Characterized in The Testament of Solomon, the great manual of magic, as "furious and shouting," Asmodeus routinely did everything he could to keep husbands and wives from having intercourse, while encouraging them at every turn to indulge their pent-up drives in adulterous and sinful affairs. When he condescended to appear before a  mortal, he did so riding a dragon, armed with a spear; he had three heads - one a bull's, one a ram's, and one a man's - as all three of these were considered lecherous creatures by nature. His feet, on the same theory, were those of a cock.

Astarte
Canaanite version of Ishtar; fertility goddess. Chief goddess of Tyre and Sidon. Astarte was also the Greek form of the name Ashtart. Tends to merge with Asherat and Anat, and with the Egyptian Hathor. She came to Egypt; Rameses II built a temple honoring her, and she and Isis
were said to be firm friends.

Athena
Greek, a Warrior Goddess, yet also one of intelligence and the arts of peace. Protector of towns, above all of Athens.

Banshee (Bean Sidhe , 'Woman Fairy')
Irish. Attached to old Irish families ('the O's and the Mac's'), she can be heard keening sorrowfully near the house when a member of the family is about to die. Still very much believed in, and heard.

Bast
Egyptian Cat Goddess of Bubastis in the Delta. Originally lion-headed, she represented the beneficient power of the Sun, in contrast to Sekhmet who personified its destructive power.

Bean-Nighe ('Washing Woman')
Scottish and Irish. Haunts lonely streams washing the bloodstained garments of those about to die.

Bechaud
According to the Grimorium Verum, Bechaud has power over rain, hail, thunder, and lightning.

Beelzebub
Part of the Christian mythos, Beelzebub was one of the powerful seraphim first recruited by Satan. From his new home in Hell, Beelzebub discovered how to tempt people with pride. He became associated with flies because he had sent a plague of the insects to Canaan. He may also have become known as the "Lord of the Flies" because of the popular belief that decaying corpses generated flies.

Regardless, when summoned by sorcerers or witches, he would appear in the form of a fly, a gargantuan cow, or a male goat with a long tail. He had a tendency to vomit flames if he was angered.

Befana ('Epiphany')
Italian Witch Fairy who flies her broomstick on Twelfth Night to come down chimneys and bring presents to children.

Belial
Before Satan had been the established leader of the forces of evil, Belial had been the undisputed regent of darkness. This view is reinforced in The War of the Sons of Light and the Sons of Darkness from one of the Dead Sea Scrolls: "But for corruption thou hast made Belial, an angel of
hostility. All his dominion is in darkness, and his purpose is to bring about wickedness and guilt."

Binah ('Understanding')
Hebrew. The Supernal Mother, third Sephirah of the Cabalistic Tree of Life. She takes the raw directionless energy of Chokmah, the Supernal Father (the second Sephira), and gives it form and manifestation; she is thus both the Bright Mother, Aima (nourishing) and the Dark Mother, Ama (constricting).

Bona Dea ('Good Goddess')
Roman Earth Goddess of Fertility, worshipped only by women; even statues of men were covered where her rites took place.

Brighid (Brigid, Brigit, Brid)
Irish Goddess of Fertility and Inspiritation, daughter of the Dagda; called 'the poetess.' Often triple ('The Three Brigids'). Her characteristics, legends and holy places were taken over by the historical St Bridget.

Cailleach Beine Brick:
A Scottish legendary witch probably recalling an earlier local goddess.

Callisto: ('Most Beautiful')
Greek Moon Goddess, to whom the she-bear was sacred in Arcadia. Envisaged as the axle on which everything turns, and thus connected with the Ursa Major constellation. Linked with Artemis, often called Artemis Callisto.

Carman
Irish. Wexford Goddess, whence Gaelic name of Wexford, Loch Garman (Loch gCarman).

Cernunnos
A Celtic god whose physical attributes came to be applied to those of Satan. Known as the Horned God and as Hu Gadarn, Cernunnos was the god of nature, astral planes, virility, fertility, animals, sex, the underworld, reincarnation, and shamanism.

Cerridwen
Welsh Mother, Moon and Grain Goddess, wife of Tegid and mother of Creirwy (the most beautiful girl in the world) and Avagdu (the ugliest boy). Owner of an inexhaustible cauldron called Amen, in which she made a magic draught called 'greal' ('Grail?') from six plants, which gave inspiration and knowledge. Mother of Taliesen, greatest of all Welsh bards. Most of her legends emphasize the terrifying aspect of the Dark Mother; yet her cauldron is the source of wisdom and inspiration.



Clauneck
According to the Grimorium Verum, Clauneck is a demon who can bestow riches upon you and uncover buried treasure.

Cliona of the Fair Hair
Irish. South Munster Goddess of great beauty, daughter of Gebann the Druid, of the Tuatha De Danaan. Connected with the O'Keefe family.

Clisthert
According to the Grimorium Verum, Clisthert "can turn the day into night, or the night into day, whenever you feel the need for a sudden change."

Cronos (Saturn)
Greek. Son of Uranus (Heaven) and Gaea (Earth). Gaea, worn out by numerous pregnancies, requested to be free of this burden, so Cronos (Saturn) took up a sickle and cut off his father's testicles. His wife was Rhea, and he fathered Hestia, Demeter, Hera, Hades, Poseidon and Zeus. Was eventually deposed by Zeus. His festivals, the Saturnalia, were a time of liberation and freedom for all and got pretty wild. They were celebrated from Dec. 17th until the new year. Saturn is the archetype for "father time".
 
Cybele
Greek. Originally Phrygian, finally merged with Rhea. Goddess of Caverns, of the Earth in its primitive state; worshipped on mountain tops. Ruled over wild beasts. Also a Bee Goddess.

Dakini
Hindu. One of the Six Goddess Governing the Six Bodily Substances; the others being Hakini, Kakini, Lakini, Rakini and Sakini.

Dana, Danu
The major Irish Mother Goddess, who gave her name to the Tuatha De Danann ('Peoples of the Goddess Dana'), the last but one occupiers of Ireland in the mytholigical cycle.

Demeter (Earth-Goddess-Mother)
Greek goddess of the fruitful Earth, especially of barley. Daughter of Cronus and Rhea. Her brother Zeus, tricking her in the form of a bull, made her the mother of Persephone.

Diana
The classical moon goddess, Diana, is still worshipped by neopagans today. Long after Christianity's triumph over classical paganism, her worship is still going strong.

Diana was the personification of the positive aspects of lunar forces. She was also believed to have led groups of nightriders (known as the "Wild Hunt" or the "Furious Horde" who flew through the air. The "Wild Hunt" was comprised of "people taken by death before their time, children snatched away at an early age, victims of a violent end." The goddess would accompany her followers as they wandered at night among the houses of the well-to-do. Whenever they would arrive at a home that was particularly well-kept, Diana would bestow her blessings upon it.

Diana was intrinsically linked with several other witch deities, including Abonde, Abundia, Aradia, Hecate, Herodias, Holda, Perchta, Satia, and Venus.

Dione
Phoenician/Greek. Also known as Baltis. A Nature or Earth Goddess, overlapping with Diana and Danae. Daughter of Uranus and Gaia. Married her brother Cronus, who gave her the city of Byblos.



Discordia
Roman Goddess of Discord and Strife, who preceeded the chariot of Mars. Greek equivalent Eris.

Dionysius
Greek. Son of Zeus and Semele. His escort was satyrs and marginally sane gods. He did not respect laws or customs, loved disguises, wild screaming, licentious dances and wild places. He was a drunken god with no home, living in the wild and eating raw meat. He encouraged excesses of all kinds. Hera hated Dionysus because of Zeus's infidelity and hounded him. She caused him to be killed by the Titans, but he was resurrected through the efforts of Athena, Zeus, Apollo, and Rhea. She drove him mad, but through Cybele he gained mastery of it. He drove many people mad for various reasons.
 
Ereshkigal ('Queen of the Great Below')
Assyro-Babylonian Goddess of the Underworld, sister of Ishtar (Inanna). Known as 'Star of Lamentation,' or sometimes simply as Allatu ('The Goddess').

Eris
Greek goddess of Discord.

Erin
Irish. One of the Three Queens of the Tuatha De Danann, daughters of the Dagda, who asked that Ireland be named after them.

Eros (Cupid)
Greek. A primordial god, contemporary of Chaos, who existed before Cronos (Saturn) and Zeus. He came out of an egg that formed the earth and sky when it broke in two. He precipitated the embraces of Gaea (the Earth) and Uranus (the heavens), which resulted in the birth of Oceanus, Tethys, Coeus, and Cronos (Saturn) . The Earth and heavens were so tightly embraced that none of the children could rise towards the light until Cronos (Saturn) castrated his father. Cupid was associated with Aphrodite, who moderated his power. Where he was desire, instinct and violent sex, she was grace, tenderness and sweet pleasure. Cupid made people lose their reason and paralyzed their wills, even inspiring Zeus to capricious sexual desires.
 
As Eros he is said to be the child of Porus (Expedience) and Penia (Poverty). Like Penia, he was said to always be in search of something, and like Porus, he always found a means of attaining his aims.
 
Faunus
A Roman God, Son of Circe and Jupiter. Protector of the Roman peoples, he lived on Palatine Hill in Rome. His oracle was given in nightmares. Lupercalia was his festival, during which his priests ran through the streets with leather straps and struck any women they met with them to bestow health and fertility. The women were said to strip themselves to be better targets. He reproduced himself in the satyrs.
 
Fraw Fenus (See Venus)

Fraw Holt (See Holda)

Fraw Selga
Fraw Selga is yet another goddess believed to have led the "Furious Horde." A Germanic deity, Fraw Selga was said to be the sister of Fraw Fenus (Venus), and like Venus and Diana, was referred to as "the mistress of the game." The processions following Fraw Selga "were composed of souls in purgatory, as well as of the damned who were suffering various punishments."

Fraw Selga could impart wisdom to her followers. She knew where buried treasure intended for the God-fearing could be found.

Frimost
According to the Grimorium Verum, Frimost can control the minds and bodies of girls and women.

Frucissiere
According to the Grimorium Verum, Frucissiere "can bring the dead back to life."

Frutimiere
According to the Grimorium Verum, Frutimiere "can serve up any feast you desire."

Gaia (Earth)
The 'deep-breasted,' the primordial Greek Earth Mother, the first being to emerge from Chaos. She was regarded as creating the universe, the first race of gods, and humankind.

Glaisrig (Glaistig)
A Scottish Undine, beautiul and seductive, but a goat from the waist down (which she hides under a long green dress). She lures men to dance with her and then sucks their blood. Yet she can be benign, looking after children or old people or herding cattle for farmers.

Gorgons, The
Greek. Three daughters of Phorcys and his sister Ceto. Winged monsters with hair of serpents, they turned men to stone by their gaze. They were Euryale and Stheno, who were immortal, and Medusa who was mortal and killed by Perseus.

Grian: ('Sun')
Irish. A Fairy Queen with a court on Pallas Green Hill, Co. Tipperary. Also a general Goddess symbol.

Gruagach, The ('The Long-Haired One')
Scottish. Female fairy to whom the dairymaids used to pour libations of milk into a hollow stone.

Guland
According to the Grimorium Verum, Guland "can inflict any kind of disease."

Gulfora
Gulfora, also known as the Queen of the Sabbat, was another goddess in the same vein as Holda, Perchta, and Diana. She led the Wild Hunt, which is also known as "the days of Jupiter."

Gwenhwyfar (Guinevere, Gueneva)
Arthur's queen. Traces of Triple Goddess.



 

Hades (Pluto)
Son of Cronos (Saturn), brother of Zeus and Poseidon. When the world was divided between the three brothers, the underworld and hell fell to Hades, while Zeus took the heavens and Poseidon the seas. He had a helmet that made him invisible. He ruled the dead, and forbade his subjects to leave his domain. He desired Persephone, but Zeus forbade the marriage. He then kidnapped her.

Hathor
Egyptian. An ancient Sky Goddess; Ra's daughter by Nut, or his wife; sometimes the wife or mother of Horus the Elder, Goddess of pleasure, joy, love, music and dancing. Protectress of women and embodiment of the finest female qualities.

Hecate
Perhaps the most notorious of all witch goddesses, Hecate was a dark manifestation of Diana. Hecate is the patron goddess of witches and sorceresses because of her skill in the arts of black magic. She is the queen of darkness, perverse sexuality, and death. Classically, she is the goddess of "roads in general and crossroads in particular, the latter being considered the center of ghostly activities, particularly in the dead of night, Offerings of food (known as Hecate's suppers) were left to placate her, for she was terrible both in her powers and in her person--a veritable Fury, armed with a scourge and blazing torch and accompanied by terrifying hounds."

The followers of Hecate were rumoured to have strange powers, such as that of being able to draw down the moon in order to employ the averse aspects of lunar forces. Followers could metamorphose into animals and birds, had insatiable sexual appetites, and had an intrinsic understanding of aphrodisiac and poisonous herbs.

Hephaestus (Vulcan)
Son of Zeus and Hera. He was lame, either because his mother, startled by his ugliness, dropped him, or because Zeus, angry that he took his mother's side in a dispute, threw him from Olympos. He dwelled among mortals and became the god of black smithing and artistic metal work. He made a golden throne that imprisoned any who sat in it, and gave it to Hera to avenge himself for his fall from Olympos.
 
Hermes (Mercury)
Son of Zeus and the nymph Maia. He stole some of Apollo's cattle shortly after his birth and concealed them, sacrificing two to the Olympian Gods. This theft won high recognition as a God himself. When Apollo discovered the theft and Hermes was tried his defense was so skillful and spirited that Zeus laughed and ruled that there should be a friendly settlement between the brothers. Hermes was God of the spoken word and oratory and was the intermediary between the God and men. Also the God of commerce and contracts, where language must be precise to convey the correct meaning.

Herodias (See Aradia or Diana)

Hel, Hela
Teutonic Goddess of the kingdom of the dead, not considered as a place of punishment. Daughter of Loki and Angurboda, and sister of the Midgard serpent of the ocean encircling the Earth, and of the devouring Fenris-wolf. Half her face was totally black.

Hestia (Hearth)
Greek. First daughter of Cronus and Rhea, and oldest of the Olympians. Goddess of domestic fire and of the home in general. Poseidon and Apollo both wanted to marry her but she placed herself under Zeus' protection as eternally virgin. She received the first morsel of every sacrifice. Roman equivalent Vesta.

Hicpacth
According to the Grimorium Verum, Hicpacth "can deliver to you anyone you want to see, from whatever distance, in the batting of an eye.

Holda
Also known as Fraw Holt, Holda became virtually synonymous with Abonde, Diana, and Perchta. Originally, Holda had been a Germanic goddess of vegetation and fertility, much like Perchta. Holda was also the goddess of spinning and weaving.

She, like her other manifestations, was the leader of the "Furious Horde" or "Wild Hunt" (Wütischend Heer, Wilde Jagd, Mesnie Sauvage)--"namely of the ranks of those who had died prematurely and passed through village streets at night, unrelenting and terrible, while the inhabitants barricaded their doors for protection."

Holda had two forms, that of a beautiful girl dressed all in white, and that of a hideous crone with fangs, a hooked nose, and long, tangled grey hair. In the latter form, she looked just like the stereotypical image of a witch or the evil stepmother of fairy tales. As the White Lady, she was a fertility goddess who granted prosperity to home, family, and field. As the Hag, she offered those who ignored or insulted her death, illness, and misfortune. In this form, she was responsible for fog and snow.

Huictiigaras
According to the Grimorium Verum, Huictiigaras "can put you to sleep or create insomnia."

Humots
According to the Grimorium Verum, Humots "can provide you with any book you want."

Inanna ('Lady of Heaven')
Sumerian Queen of Heaven, Mother Goddess to whom the Semitic Ishtar was assimilated.

Isis
Egyptian. The most complete flowering of the Goddess concept in human history. Daughter of Earth God Geb and Sky Goddess Nut.

Kali
Hindu, Tibetan, Nepalese. Often called Kali Ma ('the Black Mother'). A terrible but necessary destroyer, particularly of demons, but also a powerful creative force, much misunderstood in the
West.

Kiepoth
According to the Grimorium Verum, Kiepoth can provide one with insightful dreams and visions.

Khil
According to the Grimorium Verum, Khil "can create earthquakes on demand."

Kundalini: ('Coiled')
Hindu. The feminine Serpent Force, especially in its relation to organic and inorganic matter; the universal life-force of which electricity and magnetism are mere manifestations. Envisaged as moving in a left-handed spiral, when aroused in the human body, from the base of the spine up to the brain.

Lady of the Lake
Arthurian. In some legends Vivienne (or Viviane); in others, Vivienne was the daughter of the Lady of the Lake by Dylan, son of Arianrhod and Gwydion. In Thomas Mallory, the Lady of the Lake is called Nimue.

Lakshmi
Hindu Goddess of good fortune and plenty, and the personification of beauty.

Leannan Sidhe
Irish fairy lover, succubus. In the Isle of Man she is malevolent and vampiric.

Leonard
Although he had a rather unlikely name for a demon, Leonard was a kind of quality control expert for black magic and sorcery. He was also the master of sabbats, presiding over them in the form of
an enormous three-horned black goat with the head of a fox.

Lilith
Lilith is a kabalistic demon who appealed more to magicians than to witches. According to legend, Lilith was the first wife of Adam, and the first social feminist. Made from filth before the creation of Eve, Lilith believed herself to be Adam's equal and objected to "missionary style" sex. She believed that sexual relations should take place with the two of them lying side by side. Adam objected to this, so Lilith left him to mate with fallen angels.

Together with the fallen angels, Lilith parented a huge family of female demons called lilim. Lilim are identical to succubi for all intents and purposes. Both seduce men and take away men's strength in the night hours.

Lorelei
German. A beautiful siren who sat on a cliff above the Rhine, luring boatmen to their death with her songs.

Luna
The Roman Moon Goddess, identified with Diana and the Greek Selene.

Malkuth ('The Kingdom')
Hebrew. Personification of Earth, of the Earth-soul; the goddess in actual manifestation.

Maya
Hindu. The Goddess of Nature, the universal creatress.

Medusa
Greek. The only mortal member of the three Gorgons. Her hair was turned to serpents by Athene because she dared to claim equal beauty with hers. Her gaze turned men to stone.

Mephistopheles
The name Mephistopheles comes from the Greek for "he who does not like light." Mephistopheles is perhaps most famous for being the demon summoned by Faust. Faust had summoned him to teach him great knowledge and to grant him immense power.

Mephistopheles fulfilled all of Faust's desires. Nevertheless, at the end of the twenty-four year contract, it was Faust's turn to please Mephistopheles. All that was left of Faust at the end of the
contract was his torn and bloodied corpse. The soul had been consigned to Mephistopheles in Hell.

Mersilde
According to the Grimorium Verum, Mersilde "can magically transport you anywhere, instantaneously."

Minerva (Athena)
Minerva  is yet another goddess thought to have led the Wild Hunt. Like Holda, Minerva was traditionally thought of as the goddess of weaving, spinning, and of  women's household arts in general.

Morail
According to the Grimorium Verum, Morail "can bestow invisibility on anyone or any object."

Morgan
('Of the Sea') Arthur's half-sister Morgan le Fay; but would seem to be a much older Goddess, possibly the Glastonbury Tor one, for her island is Avalon.

Muisin
According to the Grimorium Verum, Muisin is a demon who "can sway the minds of great lords and offer strategic and political advice."

Neith
Egyptian. A very ancient Delta Goddess, protectress of Sais; her emblem was the crossed arrows of a predynastic clan.

Nemesis
Greek. Daughter of Erebus and Nyx. Goddess of divine anger, against mortals who offended the moral law, broke taboos or achieved too much happiness or wealth.

Nicneven
Scottish Samhain Witch Goddess. Tradition places her night according to the old (Julian) calendar, on 10 November.

Nimue
Arthurian. Thomas Mallory's name for the Lady of the Lake.

Nostiluca
Gaulish Witch Goddess.

Oshun and Oya
Nigerian, Yoruba tribe and Brizilian Voodoo. Sisters, daughters of Yemaja, and wives of the Thunder God Shango. Oshun was beautiful and Oya plain, and there was jealousy between them. Goddesses respectively of the rivers Oshun and Niger.

Pandora ('Gift of All')
The Greek Eve, fashioned in clay by Hephaestus on Zeus' orders to punish Prometheus for having stolen fire from heaven. Her name means that each God or Goddess gave her an appropriate gift. Zeus gave her a box which she must not open. She did open it, and all the evils that plague humankind came out of it. All that was left at the bottom was Hope.

Perchta
Perchta or Percht was yet another manifestation of Diana and was synonymous with Abonde as the leader of the host of the dead. Perchta was originally a southern German goddess of vegetation and
fertility. She had many different names (and changed her sex) depending on the geographical region. In "southern Austria, in Carintia, among the the Slovenes, 'Quantembermann' (the man of the four Ember Days) or 'Kwaternik'; in Baden, in Swabia, in Switzerland, and with the Slovenes again, 'Frau Faste' (the lady of the Ember Days) or similar names such as 'Posterli,' 'Quatemberca,'" and Fronfastenweiber.'

Persephone
Greek and Phoenician. Originally a purely Underworld Goddess, became a corn-seed Goddess, daughter of Demeter.

Poseidon (Neptune)
Son of Cronos (Saturn) and Rhea, he is represented wielding a trident being pulled by monsters in a chariot. After Zeus' victory over Cronos (Saturn), the gods, who preferred life on earth, divided the various domains of earth. Poseidon chose the seas. He represented the hidden forces of  germination and death. Together with his wife Amphitrite, he had powerful ties with Gaea, the Earth, mother of the Titans. As subterranean Gods, they shook the world from inside. Poseidon caused earthquakes when he made love to his wife. The mystery isle of Atlanta belonged to Poseidon. Poseidon could provoke storms, set fire to rocks on shore and create springs of water. He had many children, most wicked and violent, like the Cyclops of the Oddessy.

Put Satanachia
Put Satanachia was the commander-in-chief of Satan's army of darkness. Aside from having profound power over mothers, Put Satanichia had an immense knowledge of the planets. He also
provided witches with their animal familiars.

Pythia ('Pythoness')
Greek. Serpent Goddess, daughter of Gaia.

Rhiannon ('Great, or Divine, Queen').
Welsh fertility and Otherworld Goddess.

Sarasvati
Hindu. Wife of Brahma, born of his body. Goddess of speech, music, wisdom, knowledge and the arts.

Satan
Satan, of course, was the deity of choice during the witchcraze on old days. Witches' sabbats, also known as "Synagogues of Satan," were held in dedication to him. Physical adoration and submission to the Devil were necessary parts of every sabbat. Satan most often appeared at these sabbats in the form of a black billy goat or tom cat.

Satia (See Abonde or Diana)

Segal
According to the Grimorium Verum, Segal "can make all kinds of prodigies appear."

Sekhmet ('The Powerful')
Egyptian Lioness-Goddess, Eye of Ra who was her father. Wife of Ptah as Goddess of the Memphite triad, and mother of Nefertum, God of the setting Sun (later replaced by Imhotep).

Selene
Greek Moon Goddess, daughter of Hyperion and Theia, and sister of Helios (the Sun) and Eos (Dawn); though sometimes said to be the daughter of Zeus or of Helios.

Sirchade
According to the Grimorium Verum, Sirchade "can introduce you to any one of a huge assortment
of animals, both real and supernatural."

Sophia ('Wisdom')
A Gnostic Aeon; but Wisdom personified as female was earlier also characteristic of Hebrew and Greek-Hebrew thinking.

Surgat
According to the Grimorium Verum, Surgat "can unlock anything."

Tailtiu
Irish. Foster-mother of Lugh, who instituted the Tailtean Games, central event of the Festival of Lughnasadh (1 August), in her memory.

Tara ('Radiating')
Hindu Star Goddess, wife of Brihaspati (identified with the planet Jupiter), teacher of the Gods.

Tenemit
Egyptian Underworld Goddess, who gave ale to the deceased.

Tiamat
Assyro-Babylonian Primordial Sea Mother Goddess, the mass of salt waters, who with her mate Apsu (the sweet waters) begat the original chaotic world and who also symbolized it and ruled it.

Ulupi
Hindu. A Serpent Goddess, one of the Nagis, dwelling in Patala, the lowest level of the Underworld.

Valkyries, The
Teutonic. In late Scandinavian myth, they brought the souls of those slain in battle to Odin.

Venus
Venus was originally the Roman goddess of love, but by the time of the witchcraze she was relegated to demon status. She became synonymous with Diana in terms of being followed at night
by a retinue of women. Witches knew her as Fraw Fenus, stating they visited her at night-time.

Venus could grant to these witches the power of astral projection. Witches could fall into "swoons which rendered them insensible to pricks or scaldings." When the women revived, they said they had been to heaven and "spoke of stolen or hidden objects."

Verdelet
Verdelet was something of a cross between a maitre d' and a transportation coordinator. He was master of ceremonies in Hell, and also shouldered the responsibility of making sure witches on Earth got to their sabbats safely and on time.

Vesta ('Torch, Candle')
Roman Goddess of fire, both domestic and ritual. Daughter of Saturn and Ops. Domestically she presided over the hearth and the preparation of meals.

Vivienne, Viviane
Arthurian. Sometimes referred to as the Lady of the Lake, sometimes as the Lady's daughter.

Yesod ('Foundation')
Hebrew. Ninth Sephira of the Cabalistic Tree of Life, sphere of the Moon and of the astral plane.
 
Zeus (Jupiter)
Son of Cronos (Saturn) and Rhea. He defeated Cronos (Saturn) in a battle and then divided the realms with his brothers by lot, getting the heavens for his own. He was ruler and judge, the arbiter of disputes among Gods and men. His decisions were just and well balanced, showing no favoritism. He had several wives and many lover's, earning the title "all father" or "father god". His infidelity caused much strife on Olympos and in the world through he raging of his wife, Hera.

davidylan:

Where is the attempt to address the issues? tired, evasive and brainless attempts to shift issues to brainless insults is the reason i stay away from here as much as possible now. Argh.

And what are the "issues" that you have raised?. . . .Who cares if you come here or not, you think any body takes your ridiculous opionions seriously? . . . .This guy is truly deluded. . . .

mazaje:

Here it is. . . Men have been creating Gods and Godesses all through out human history. . . .ALL Gods REMAIN man made


Abonde (Abundia - Perchta - Satia - Habundie)
Intrinsically linked with the classical goddess Diana, Abonde led nocturnal hordes of witches through homes and cellars, eating and drinking all they could find. If food and drink were left as offerings, Abonde would bestow prosperity upon the occupants of the home. If nothing was left out for her and her followers, she would deny the denizens of her blessings and protection.

According to Roman de la Rose, written at the end of the thirteenth century, thirdborn children were obligated to travel with Abonde three times a week to the homes of neighbours. Nothing could stop
these people, as they became incorporeal in the company of Abonde. Only their souls would travel as their bodies remained behind immobile. There was a downside to this astral projection: if the body was turned over while the soul was elsewhere, the soul would never return.

Aditi (Limitless)
Hindu Mother Goddess, self-formed, the Cosmic Matrix. Mother of the Sun God Mitra and the Moon God Varuna.

Ambika
Hindu, 'the generatrix,' wife of Shiva or of Rudra.

Annapurna
Hindu. Goddess who provides food; she lives on top of Mount Annapurna.

Aphrodite (Foam-Born)
Greek Goddess of sexual love. She was born of the bloody foam of the sea where Cronus threw the focal places of his father Uranus after castrating him. Married, on Zeus's orders, to the lame Smith God Hephaestus, and unfaithful to him with the war God Ares. She was in fact an ancient East Mediterranean Goddess and can be equated with Astarte.

Apollo (Phoebus, the Bright One)
Greek. Identified with the sun. Said to be the most powerful of the Gods. Son of Zeus and Leto. Born on Delos, taken North and raised by the hyperboreans, he went to Delphi and killed the dragon Python, guardian of the oracle of Themis, but a ravager of the countryside. Tall, handsome, outstanding in word and deed, he was the god of ever-renewed youth, archetype of virile beauty and masculine virtue. He was also known as a seducer & extremely arrogant. Talented in music,  inventor of the lyre,  he was the inspiration of poets and soothsayers. His oracles were expressed in verse. He could cure illness and banish evil. He was a doctor who knew the purification rites and was invoked against plague. His image was set at dangerous places for protection (Lighting the ways) Nothing escaped his vision (light of day).
 
Arachne
Greek Spider Goddess. A Lydian girl skilled in weaving, she dared to challenge Athene to compete with her. The contest was held, and Arachne's work was faultless: impudently, it portrayed some of the Gods' less reputable deeds, including Athene's father Zeus abducting Europa. Furious, Athene turned her into a spider, doomed eternally to spin thread drawn from her own body. But the Spider Goddess is more archetypal than this story suggests: spinning and weaving the pattern of destiny like the Moerae or the Norns, and enthroned in the middle of her spiral-pathed stronghold like Arianrhod. Athene here represents Athenian patriarchal thinking, trying to discipline earlier
Goddess-concepts.

Aradia
(Italy, Tuscany) Witch Goddess, surviving there into this century. Daughter of Diana and Diana's brother Lucifer (i.e. of the Moon and Sun), she came to Earth to teach the witches her mother's magic.

Ariadne
Cretan and Greek. The daughter of King Minos of Crete, who with her her cunning thread helped Theseus find his way into the labyrinth to kill the Minotaur, and out again. She eloped with him, but he abandoned her on the island of Naxos. She was consoled by Dionysus, who in her
Naxos cult was regarded as her consort.

Aries (Mars)
Greek. Son of Hera, born without male assistance. He was a supreme fighter, loved battle and cared little about issues, switching sides without scruple. He delighted in massacres. He was god of war, not victory, and was thoughtless about winning, only fighting. Was on occasion disarmed by Athena,  Goddess of restraint and forethought,  to keep him from interfering in battles that did not concern him. He was prolific in love, but also a rapist. He was run by his passions.

Arianrhod (Silver Wheel)
Major Welsh Goddess. Mother of Llew Llau Gyffes by her brother Gwydion. Her consort Nwyvre ('Sky, Space, Firmament') has survived in name only. Caer Arianrhod is the circumpolar stars, to which souls withdraw between incarnations; she is thus a Goddess of reincarnation. Honoured at the Full Moon.

Artemis
Greek Nature and Moon Goddess. Daughter of Zeus and Leto, and twin sister of Apollo (though a day older). She probably absorbed a pre-Indo-European Sun Goddess, and her twinning in classical legend with the Sun God Apollo may stem from this. The Greeks assimilated her to a pre-Greek mistress of wild beasts. Bears were sacred to her, and she was associated with the constellation Ursa Major.

Ashtaroth (Astaroth)
Ashtaroth was usually depicted as an ugly demon riding a dragon and carrying a viper in his left hand. He was the Treasurer of Hell, and was also the Grand Duke of its western regions. He encouraged sloth and idleness.

Ashtaroth was one of two demons prayed to in the Black Masses of Catherine Monvoisin, Madame  de Montespan (mistress of Louis XIV), and a 67-year-old priest by the name of Guibourg. (The other demon prayed to was Asmodeus.)

Asmodeus
Asmodeus was one of the busiest demons. He was not only the overseer of all the gambling houses in the court of Hell, but the general spreader of dissipation. On top of that, Asmodeus was the demon of lust, personally responsible for stirring up matrimonial trouble. Maybe it was because he came from the original dysfunctional family. According to Jewish legend, his mother was a mortal woman, Naamah, and his father was one of the fallen angels.

Characterized in The Testament of Solomon, the great manual of magic, as "furious and shouting," Asmodeus routinely did everything he could to keep husbands and wives from having intercourse, while encouraging them at every turn to indulge their pent-up drives in adulterous and sinful affairs. When he condescended to appear before a  mortal, he did so riding a dragon, armed with a spear; he had three heads - one a bull's, one a ram's, and one a man's - as all three of these were considered lecherous creatures by nature. His feet, on the same theory, were those of a cock.

Astarte
Canaanite version of Ishtar; fertility goddess. Chief goddess of Tyre and Sidon. Astarte was also the Greek form of the name Ashtart. Tends to merge with Asherat and Anat, and with the Egyptian Hathor. She came to Egypt; Rameses II built a temple honoring her, and she and Isis
were said to be firm friends.

Athena
Greek, a Warrior Goddess, yet also one of intelligence and the arts of peace. Protector of towns, above all of Athens.

Banshee (Bean Sidhe , 'Woman Fairy')
Irish. Attached to old Irish families ('the O's and the Mac's'), she can be heard keening sorrowfully near the house when a member of the family is about to die. Still very much believed in, and heard.

Bast
Egyptian Cat Goddess of Bubastis in the Delta. Originally lion-headed, she represented the beneficient power of the Sun, in contrast to Sekhmet who personified its destructive power.

Bean-Nighe ('Washing Woman')
Scottish and Irish. Haunts lonely streams washing the bloodstained garments of those about to die.

Bechaud
According to the Grimorium Verum, Bechaud has power over rain, hail, thunder, and lightning.

Beelzebub
Part of the Christian mythos, Beelzebub was one of the powerful seraphim first recruited by Satan. From his new home in Hell, Beelzebub discovered how to tempt people with pride. He became associated with flies because he had sent a plague of the insects to Canaan. He may also have become known as the "Lord of the Flies" because of the popular belief that decaying corpses generated flies.

Regardless, when summoned by sorcerers or witches, he would appear in the form of a fly, a gargantuan cow, or a male goat with a long tail. He had a tendency to vomit flames if he was angered.

Befana ('Epiphany')
Italian Witch Fairy who flies her broomstick on Twelfth Night to come down chimneys and bring presents to children.

Belial
Before Satan had been the established leader of the forces of evil, Belial had been the undisputed regent of darkness. This view is reinforced in The War of the Sons of Light and the Sons of Darkness from one of the Dead Sea Scrolls: "But for corruption thou hast made Belial, an angel of
hostility. All his dominion is in darkness, and his purpose is to bring about wickedness and guilt."

Binah ('Understanding')
Hebrew. The Supernal Mother, third Sephirah of the Cabalistic Tree of Life. She takes the raw directionless energy of Chokmah, the Supernal Father (the second Sephira), and gives it form and manifestation; she is thus both the Bright Mother, Aima (nourishing) and the Dark Mother, Ama (constricting).

Bona Dea ('Good Goddess')
Roman Earth Goddess of Fertility, worshipped only by women; even statues of men were covered where her rites took place.

Brighid (Brigid, Brigit, Brid)
Irish Goddess of Fertility and Inspiritation, daughter of the Dagda; called 'the poetess.' Often triple ('The Three Brigids'). Her characteristics, legends and holy places were taken over by the historical St Bridget.

Cailleach Beine Brick:
A Scottish legendary witch probably recalling an earlier local goddess.

Callisto: ('Most Beautiful')
Greek Moon Goddess, to whom the she-bear was sacred in Arcadia. Envisaged as the axle on which everything turns, and thus connected with the Ursa Major constellation. Linked with Artemis, often called Artemis Callisto.

Carman
Irish. Wexford Goddess, whence Gaelic name of Wexford, Loch Garman (Loch gCarman).

Cernunnos
A Celtic god whose physical attributes came to be applied to those of Satan. Known as the Horned God and as Hu Gadarn, Cernunnos was the god of nature, astral planes, virility, fertility, animals, intimacy, the underworld, reincarnation, and shamanism.

Cerridwen
Welsh Mother, Moon and Grain Goddess, wife of Tegid and mother of Creirwy (the most beautiful girl in the world) and Avagdu (the ugliest boy). Owner of an inexhaustible cauldron called Amen, in which she made a magic draught called 'greal' ('Grail?') from six plants, which gave inspiration and knowledge. Mother of Taliesen, greatest of all Welsh bards. Most of her legends emphasize the terrifying aspect of the Dark Mother; yet her cauldron is the source of wisdom and inspiration.



Clauneck
According to the Grimorium Verum, Clauneck is a demon who can bestow riches upon you and uncover buried treasure.

Cliona of the Fair Hair
Irish. South Munster Goddess of great beauty, daughter of Gebann the Druid, of the Tuatha De Danaan. Connected with the O'Keefe family.

Clisthert
According to the Grimorium Verum, Clisthert "can turn the day into night, or the night into day, whenever you feel the need for a sudden change."

Cronos (Saturn)
Greek. Son of Uranus (Heaven) and Gaea (Earth). Gaea, worn out by numerous pregnancies, requested to be free of this burden, so Cronos (Saturn) took up a sickle and cut off his father's testicles. His wife was Rhea, and he fathered Hestia, Demeter, Hera, Hades, Poseidon and Zeus. Was eventually deposed by Zeus. His festivals, the Saturnalia, were a time of liberation and freedom for all and got pretty wild. They were celebrated from Dec. 17th until the new year. Saturn is the archetype for "father time".
 
Cybele
Greek. Originally Phrygian, finally merged with Rhea. Goddess of Caverns, of the Earth in its primitive state; worshipped on mountain tops. Ruled over wild beasts. Also a Bee Goddess.

Dakini
Hindu. One of the Six Goddess Governing the Six Bodily Substances; the others being Hakini, Kakini, Lakini, Rakini and Sakini.

Dana, Danu
The major Irish Mother Goddess, who gave her name to the Tuatha De Danann ('Peoples of the Goddess Dana'), the last but one occupiers of Ireland in the mytholigical cycle.

Demeter (Earth-Goddess-Mother)
Greek goddess of the fruitful Earth, especially of barley. Daughter of Cronus and Rhea. Her brother Zeus, tricking her in the form of a bull, made her the mother of Persephone.

Diana
The classical moon goddess, Diana, is still worshipped by neopagans today. Long after Christianity's triumph over classical paganism, her worship is still going strong.

Diana was the personification of the positive aspects of lunar forces. She was also believed to have led groups of nightriders (known as the "Wild Hunt" or the "Furious Horde" who flew through the air. The "Wild Hunt" was comprised of "people taken by death before their time, children snatched away at an early age, victims of a violent end." The goddess would accompany her followers as they wandered at night among the houses of the well-to-do. Whenever they would arrive at a home that was particularly well-kept, Diana would bestow her blessings upon it.

Diana was intrinsically linked with several other witch deities, including Abonde, Abundia, Aradia, Hecate, Herodias, Holda, Perchta, Satia, and Venus.

Dione
Phoenician/Greek. Also known as Baltis. A Nature or Earth Goddess, overlapping with Diana and Danae. Daughter of Uranus and Gaia. Married her brother Cronus, who gave her the city of Byblos.



Discordia
Roman Goddess of Discord and Strife, who preceeded the chariot of Mars. Greek equivalent Eris.

Dionysius
Greek. Son of Zeus and Semele. His escort was satyrs and marginally sane gods. He did not respect laws or customs, loved disguises, wild screaming, licentious dances and wild places. He was a drunken god with no home, living in the wild and eating raw meat. He encouraged excesses of all kinds. Hera hated Dionysus because of Zeus's infidelity and hounded him. She caused him to be killed by the Titans, but he was resurrected through the efforts of Athena, Zeus, Apollo, and Rhea. She drove him mad, but through Cybele he gained mastery of it. He drove many people mad for various reasons.
 
Ereshkigal ('Queen of the Great Below')
Assyro-Babylonian Goddess of the Underworld, sister of Ishtar (Inanna). Known as 'Star of Lamentation,' or sometimes simply as Allatu ('The Goddess').

Eris
Greek goddess of Discord.

Erin
Irish. One of the Three Queens of the Tuatha De Danann, daughters of the Dagda, who asked that Ireland be named after them.

Eros (Cupid)
Greek. A primordial god, contemporary of Chaos, who existed before Cronos (Saturn) and Zeus. He came out of an egg that formed the earth and sky when it broke in two. He precipitated the embraces of Gaea (the Earth) and Uranus (the heavens), which resulted in the birth of Oceanus, Tethys, Coeus, and Cronos (Saturn) . The Earth and heavens were so tightly embraced that none of the children could rise towards the light until Cronos (Saturn) castrated his father. Cupid was associated with Aphrodite, who moderated his power. Where he was desire, instinct and violent intimacy, she was grace, tenderness and sweet pleasure. Cupid made people lose their reason and paralyzed their wills, even inspiring Zeus to capricious sexual desires.
 
As Eros he is said to be the child of Porus (Expedience) and Penia (Poverty). Like Penia, he was said to always be in search of something, and like Porus, he always found a means of attaining his aims.
 
Faunus
A Roman God, Son of Circe and Jupiter. Protector of the Roman peoples, he lived on Palatine Hill in Rome. His oracle was given in nightmares. Lupercalia was his festival, during which his priests ran through the streets with leather straps and struck any women they met with them to bestow health and fertility. The women were said to strip themselves to be better targets. He reproduced himself in the satyrs.
 
Fraw Fenus (See Venus)

Fraw Holt (See Holda)

Fraw Selga
Fraw Selga is yet another goddess believed to have led the "Furious Horde." A Germanic deity, Fraw Selga was said to be the sister of Fraw Fenus (Venus), and like Venus and Diana, was referred to as "the mistress of the game." The processions following Fraw Selga "were composed of souls in purgatory, as well as of the damned who were suffering various punishments."

Fraw Selga could impart wisdom to her followers. She knew where buried treasure intended for the God-fearing could be found.

Frimost
According to the Grimorium Verum, Frimost can control the minds and bodies of girls and women.

Frucissiere
According to the Grimorium Verum, Frucissiere "can bring the dead back to life."

Frutimiere
According to the Grimorium Verum, Frutimiere "can serve up any feast you desire."

Gaia (Earth)
The 'deep-breasted,' the primordial Greek Earth Mother, the first being to emerge from Chaos. She was regarded as creating the universe, the first race of gods, and humankind.

Glaisrig (Glaistig)
A Scottish Undine, beautiul and seductive, but a goat from the waist down (which she hides under a long green dress). She lures men to dance with her and then sucks their blood. Yet she can be benign, looking after children or old people or herding cattle for farmers.

Gorgons, The
Greek. Three daughters of Phorcys and his sister Ceto. Winged monsters with hair of serpents, they turned men to stone by their gaze. They were Euryale and Stheno, who were immortal, and Medusa who was mortal and killed by Perseus.

Grian: ('Sun')
Irish. A Fairy Queen with a court on Pallas Green Hill, Co. Tipperary. Also a general Goddess symbol.

Gruagach, The ('The Long-Haired One')
Scottish. Female fairy to whom the dairymaids used to pour libations of milk into a hollow stone.

Guland
According to the Grimorium Verum, Guland "can inflict any kind of disease."

Gulfora
Gulfora, also known as the Queen of the Sabbat, was another goddess in the same vein as Holda, Perchta, and Diana. She led the Wild Hunt, which is also known as "the days of Jupiter."

Gwenhwyfar (Guinevere, Gueneva)
Arthur's queen. Traces of Triple Goddess.



 

Hades (Pluto)
Son of Cronos (Saturn), brother of Zeus and Poseidon. When the world was divided between the three brothers, the underworld and hell fell to Hades, while Zeus took the heavens and Poseidon the seas. He had a helmet that made him invisible. He ruled the dead, and forbade his subjects to leave his domain. He desired Persephone, but Zeus forbade the marriage. He then kidnapped her.

Hathor
Egyptian. An ancient Sky Goddess; Ra's daughter by Nut, or his wife; sometimes the wife or mother of Horus the Elder, Goddess of pleasure, joy, love, music and dancing. Protectress of women and embodiment of the finest female qualities.

Hecate
Perhaps the most notorious of all witch goddesses, Hecate was a dark manifestation of Diana. Hecate is the patron goddess of witches and sorceresses because of her skill in the arts of black magic. She is the queen of darkness, perverse sexuality, and death. Classically, she is the goddess of "roads in general and crossroads in particular, the latter being considered the center of ghostly activities, particularly in the dead of night,  Offerings of food (known as Hecate's suppers) were left to placate her, for she was terrible both in her powers and in her person--a veritable Fury, armed with a scourge and blazing torch and accompanied by terrifying hounds."

The followers of Hecate were rumoured to have strange powers, such as that of being able to draw down the moon in order to employ the averse aspects of lunar forces. Followers could metamorphose into animals and birds, had insatiable sexual appetites, and had an intrinsic understanding of aphrodisiac and poisonous herbs.

Hephaestus (Vulcan)
Son of Zeus and Hera. He was lame, either because his mother, startled by his ugliness, dropped him, or because Zeus, angry that he took his mother's side in a dispute, threw him from Olympos. He dwelled among mortals and became the god of black smithing and artistic metal work. He made a golden throne that imprisoned any who sat in it, and gave it to Hera to avenge himself for his fall from Olympos.
 
Hermes (Mercury)
Son of Zeus and the nymph Maia. He stole some of Apollo's cattle shortly after his birth and concealed them, sacrificing two to the Olympian Gods. This theft won high recognition as a God himself. When Apollo discovered the theft and Hermes was tried his defense was so skillful and spirited that Zeus laughed and ruled that there should be a friendly settlement between the brothers. Hermes was God of the spoken word and oratory and was the intermediary between the God and men. Also the God of commerce and contracts, where language must be precise to convey the correct meaning.

Herodias (See Aradia or Diana)

Hel, Hela
Teutonic Goddess of the kingdom of the dead, not considered as a place of punishment. Daughter of Loki and Angurboda, and sister of the Midgard serpent of the ocean encircling the Earth, and of the devouring Fenris-wolf. Half her face was totally black.

Hestia (Hearth)
Greek. First daughter of Cronus and Rhea, and oldest of the Olympians. Goddess of domestic fire and of the home in general. Poseidon and Apollo both wanted to marry her but she placed herself under Zeus' protection as eternally virgin. She received the first morsel of every sacrifice. Roman equivalent Vesta.

Hicpacth
According to the Grimorium Verum, Hicpacth "can deliver to you anyone you want to see, from whatever distance, in the batting of an eye.

Holda
Also known as Fraw Holt, Holda became virtually synonymous with Abonde, Diana, and Perchta. Originally, Holda had been a Germanic goddess of vegetation and fertility, much like Perchta. Holda was also the goddess of spinning and weaving.

She, like her other manifestations, was the leader of the "Furious Horde" or "Wild Hunt" (Wütischend Heer, Wilde Jagd, Mesnie Sauvage)--"namely of the ranks of those who had died prematurely and passed through village streets at night, unrelenting and terrible, while the inhabitants barricaded their doors for protection."

Holda had two forms, that of a beautiful girl dressed all in white, and that of a hideous crone with fangs, a hooked nose, and long, tangled grey hair. In the latter form, she looked just like the stereotypical image of a witch or the evil stepmother of fairy tales. As the White Lady, she was a fertility goddess who granted prosperity to home, family, and field. As the Hag, she offered those who ignored or insulted her death, illness, and misfortune. In this form, she was responsible for fog and snow.

Huictiigaras
According to the Grimorium Verum, Huictiigaras "can put you to sleep or create insomnia."

Humots
According to the Grimorium Verum, Humots "can provide you with any book you want."

Inanna ('Lady of Heaven')
Sumerian Queen of Heaven, Mother Goddess to whom the Semitic Ishtar was assimilated.

Isis
Egyptian. The most complete flowering of the Goddess concept in human history. Daughter of Earth God Geb and Sky Goddess Nut.

Kali
Hindu, Tibetan, Nepalese. Often called Kali Ma ('the Black Mother'). A terrible but necessary destroyer, particularly of demons, but also a powerful creative force, much misunderstood in the
West.

Kiepoth
According to the Grimorium Verum, Kiepoth can provide one with insightful dreams and visions.

Khil
According to the Grimorium Verum, Khil "can create earthquakes on demand."

Kundalini: ('Coiled')
Hindu. The feminine Serpent Force, especially in its relation to organic and inorganic matter; the universal life-force of which electricity and magnetism are mere manifestations. Envisaged as moving in a left-handed spiral, when excited in the human body, from the base of the spine up to the brain.

Lady of the Lake
Arthurian. In some legends Vivienne (or Viviane); in others, Vivienne was the daughter of the Lady of the Lake by Dylan, son of Arianrhod and Gwydion. In Thomas Mallory, the Lady of the Lake is called Nimue.

Lakshmi
Hindu Goddess of good fortune and plenty, and the personification of beauty.

Leannan Sidhe
Irish fairy lover, succubus. In the Isle of Man she is malevolent and vampiric.

Leonard
Although he had a rather unlikely name for a demon, Leonard was a kind of quality control expert for black magic and sorcery. He was also the master of sabbats, presiding over them in the form of
an enormous three-horned black goat with the head of a fox.

Lilith
Lilith is a kabalistic demon who appealed more to magicians than to witches. According to legend, Lilith was the first wife of Adam, and the first social feminist. Made from filth before the creation of Eve, Lilith believed herself to be Adam's equal and objected to "missionary style" intimacy. She believed that sexual relations should take place with the two of them lying side by side. Adam objected to this, so Lilith left him to mate with fallen angels.

Together with the fallen angels, Lilith parented a huge family of female demons called lilim. Lilim are identical to succubi for all intents and purposes. Both seduce men and take away men's strength in the night hours.

Lorelei
German. A beautiful siren who sat on a cliff above the Rhine, luring boatmen to their death with her songs.

Luna
The Roman Moon Goddess, identified with Diana and the Greek Selene.

Malkuth ('The Kingdom')
Hebrew. Personification of Earth, of the Earth-soul; the goddess in actual manifestation.

Maya
Hindu. The Goddess of Nature, the universal creatress.

Medusa
Greek. The only mortal member of the three Gorgons. Her hair was turned to serpents by Athene because she dared to claim equal beauty with hers. Her gaze turned men to stone.

Mephistopheles
The name Mephistopheles comes from the Greek for "he who does not like light." Mephistopheles is perhaps most famous for being the demon summoned by Faust. Faust had summoned him to teach him great knowledge and to grant him immense power.

Mephistopheles fulfilled all of Faust's desires. Nevertheless, at the end of the twenty-four year contract, it was Faust's turn to please Mephistopheles. All that was left of Faust at the end of the
contract was his torn and bloodied corpse. The soul had been consigned to Mephistopheles in Hell.

Mersilde
According to the Grimorium Verum, Mersilde "can magically transport you anywhere, instantaneously."

Minerva (Athena)
Minerva  is yet another goddess thought to have led the Wild Hunt. Like Holda, Minerva was traditionally thought of as the goddess of weaving, spinning, and of  women's household arts in general.

Morail
According to the Grimorium Verum, Morail "can bestow invisibility on anyone or any object."

Morgan
('Of the Sea') Arthur's half-sister Morgan le Fay; but would seem to be a much older Goddess, possibly the Glastonbury Tor one, for her island is Avalon.

Muisin
According to the Grimorium Verum, Muisin is a demon who "can sway the minds of great lords and offer strategic and political advice."

Neith
Egyptian. A very ancient Delta Goddess, protectress of Sais; her emblem was the crossed arrows of a predynastic clan.

Nemesis
Greek. Daughter of Erebus and Nyx. Goddess of divine anger, against mortals who offended the moral law, broke taboos or achieved too much happiness or wealth.

Nicneven
Scottish Samhain Witch Goddess. Tradition places her night according to the old (Julian) calendar, on 10 November.

Nimue
Arthurian. Thomas Mallory's name for the Lady of the Lake.

Nostiluca
Gaulish Witch Goddess.

Oshun and Oya
Nigerian, Yoruba tribe and Brizilian Voodoo. Sisters, daughters of Yemaja, and wives of the Thunder God Shango. Oshun was beautiful and Oya plain, and there was jealousy between them. Goddesses respectively of the rivers Oshun and Niger.

Pandora ('Gift of All')
The Greek Eve, fashioned in clay by Hephaestus on Zeus' orders to punish Prometheus for having stolen fire from heaven. Her name means that each God or Goddess gave her an appropriate gift. Zeus gave her a box which she must not open. She did open it, and all the evils that plague humankind came out of it. All that was left at the bottom was Hope.

Perchta
Perchta or Percht was yet another manifestation of Diana and was synonymous with Abonde as the leader of the host of the dead. Perchta was originally a southern German goddess of vegetation and
fertility. She had many different names (and changed her intimacy) depending on the geographical region. In "southern Austria, in Carintia, among the the Slovenes, 'Quantembermann' (the man of the four Ember Days) or 'Kwaternik'; in Baden, in Swabia, in Switzerland, and with the Slovenes again, 'Frau Faste' (the lady of the Ember Days) or similar names such as 'Posterli,' 'Quatemberca,'" and Fronfastenweiber.'

Persephone
Greek and Phoenician. Originally a purely Underworld Goddess, became a corn-seed Goddess, daughter of Demeter.

Poseidon (Neptune)
Son of Cronos (Saturn) and Rhea, he is represented wielding a trident being pulled by monsters in a chariot. After Zeus' victory over Cronos (Saturn), the gods, who preferred life on earth, divided the various domains of earth. Poseidon chose the seas. He represented the hidden forces of  germination and death. Together with his wife Amphitrite, he had powerful ties with Gaea, the Earth, mother of the Titans. As subterranean Gods, they shook the world from inside. Poseidon caused earthquakes when he made love to his wife. The mystery isle of Atlanta belonged to Poseidon. Poseidon could provoke storms, set fire to rocks on shore and create springs of water. He had many children, most wicked and violent, like the Cyclops of the Oddessy.

Put Satanachia
Put Satanachia was the commander-in-chief of Satan's army of darkness. Aside from having profound power over mothers, Put Satanichia had an immense knowledge of the planets. He also
provided witches with their animal familiars.

Pythia ('Pythoness')
Greek. Serpent Goddess, daughter of Gaia.

Rhiannon ('Great, or Divine, Queen').
Welsh fertility and Otherworld Goddess.

Sarasvati
Hindu. Wife of Brahma, born of his body. Goddess of speech, music, wisdom, knowledge and the arts.

Satan
Satan, of course, was the deity of choice during the witchcraze on old days. Witches' sabbats, also known as "Synagogues of Satan," were held in dedication to him. Physical adoration and submission to the Devil were necessary parts of every sabbat. Satan most often appeared at these sabbats in the form of a black billy goat or tom cat.

Satia (See Abonde or Diana)

Segal
According to the Grimorium Verum, Segal "can make all kinds of prodigies appear."

Sekhmet ('The Powerful')
Egyptian Lioness-Goddess, Eye of Ra who was her father. Wife of Ptah as Goddess of the Memphite triad, and mother of Nefertum, God of the setting Sun (later replaced by Imhotep).

Selene
Greek Moon Goddess, daughter of Hyperion and Theia, and sister of Helios (the Sun) and Eos (Dawn); though sometimes said to be the daughter of Zeus or of Helios.

Sirchade
According to the Grimorium Verum, Sirchade "can introduce you to any one of a huge assortment
of animals, both real and supernatural."

Sophia ('Wisdom')
A Gnostic Aeon; but Wisdom personified as female was earlier also characteristic of Hebrew and Greek-Hebrew thinking.

Surgat
According to the Grimorium Verum, Surgat "can unlock anything."

Tailtiu
Irish. Foster-mother of Lugh, who instituted the Tailtean Games, central event of the Festival of Lughnasadh (1 August), in her memory.

Tara ('Radiating')
Hindu Star Goddess, wife of Brihaspati (identified with the planet Jupiter), teacher of the Gods.

Tenemit
Egyptian Underworld Goddess, who gave ale to the deceased.

Tiamat
Assyro-Babylonian Primordial Sea Mother Goddess, the mass of salt waters, who with her mate Apsu (the sweet waters) begat the original chaotic world and who also symbolized it and ruled it.

Ulupi
Hindu. A Serpent Goddess, one of the Nagis, dwelling in Patala, the lowest level of the Underworld.

Valkyries, The
Teutonic. In late Scandinavian myth, they brought the souls of those slain in battle to Odin.

Venus
Venus was originally the Roman goddess of love, but by the time of the witchcraze she was relegated to demon status. She became synonymous with Diana in terms of being followed at night
by a retinue of women. Witches knew her as Fraw Fenus, stating they visited her at night-time.

Venus could grant to these witches the power of astral projection. Witches could fall into "swoons which rendered them insensible to pricks or scaldings." When the women revived, they said they had been to heaven and "spoke of stolen or hidden objects."

Verdelet
Verdelet was something of a cross between a maitre d' and a transportation coordinator. He was master of ceremonies in Hell, and also shouldered the responsibility of making sure witches on Earth got to their sabbats safely and on time.

Vesta ('Torch, Candle')
Roman Goddess of fire, both domestic and ritual. Daughter of Saturn and Ops. Domestically she presided over the hearth and the preparation of meals.

Vivienne, Viviane
Arthurian. Sometimes referred to as the Lady of the Lake, sometimes as the Lady's daughter.

Yesod ('Foundation')
Hebrew. Ninth Sephira of the Cabalistic Tree of Life, sphere of the Moon and of the astral plane.
 
Zeus (Jupiter)
Son of Cronos (Saturn) and Rhea. He defeated Cronos (Saturn) in a battle and then divided the realms with his brothers by lot, getting the heavens for his own. He was ruler and judge, the arbiter of disputes among Gods and men. His decisions were just and well balanced, showing no favoritism. He had several wives and many lover's, earning the title "all father" or "father god". His infidelity caused much strife on Olympos and in the world through he raging of his wife, Hera.

hmm do you understand the term "empirical evidence"? Do you understand what is meant by scientific inquiry? What is the meaning of the above copy-paste job?

So someone types up unproven nonsense on the web and that is "evidence" that ALL GODS are man-made?

mazaje:

And what are the "issues" that you have raised?. . . .Who cares if you come here or not, you think any body takes your ridiculous opionions seriously? . . . .This guy is truly deluded. . . .

This thread is issues based. Focus on it.

Not interested in who does or does not take my opinions . . . that is why they are called "opinions".

davidylan:

hmm do you understand the term "empirical evidence"? Do you understand what is meant by scientific inquiry? What is the meaning of the above copy-paste job?

When you provide any method of empirically testing the God hypothesis and the method to use to conduct the test, I will assume you have an idea of what you are talking about. . . .

so someone types up unproven nonsense on the web and that is "evidence" that ALL GODS are man-made?

Sure, that is why no God can be shown to exist on its own independent of man made stories and myths, man made influence, societal and cultural acceptance of man. . .If you kown any god that exist independent of these things then point to it. . . .All Gods that human worship and believe in REMAIN man made. . . .

Guys let us join the Nigeria Skeptical Society to provide alternative lifestyle in order to address the chaotic religious irrationalities bedevelling Nigerians, More than 7 have join since the announcement of this Post, mail profibadan@gmail.com or call 07060874312 to join

Hello thehomer,

I would rather not assume that aletheia cheapened Ross' discovery, in so far that the former's post in mentioning the latter was in direct reply to the OP's challenge to cite just an example. There's no hint in aletheia's posts about Ross sitting passively to stumble upon his discovery. Perhaps this resource might be helpful to anyone wishing to learn a bit about Ross in connection with prayer and his work:

Henry Sloane Coffin: An instance of this religious devotion to the mastery of nature is the struggle of Sor Ronald Ross at Bangalore to discover the protozoön which is the carrier of malaria. Working in the laboratory and hospital, he wrote:

     I pace and pace, and think and think, and take
        The fever'd hands, and note down all I see,
     That some dim distant light may haply break.

     The painful faces ask, Can we not cure?
         We answer, No, not yet; we seek the laws.
      O God, reveal through all this thing obscure
         The unseen, small, but million-murdering cause.

Several years later, he writes in grateful triumph:

     This day relenting God
         Hath placed within my hand
     A wondrous thing: and God
         Be praised. At His command,

      Seeking His secret deeds,
         With tears and toiling breath,
      I find thy cunning seends,
         O million-murdering Death.


etc., etc., . . .


[url=http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=qkhJsbzCjToC&pg=PA51&lpg=PA51&dq=ross+O+God,+reveal+thru'+all+this+thing+obscure&source=bl&ots=duYoJfiL9N&sig=eLRnm-VZk_waBLGS5PwLWjaPobw&hl=en&ei=I936S4fBJqTwmwO_keDHAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CCYQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false]read more here[/url].

thehomer:

It is also known that one can be religious and still do perfectly good science.

That's a point also made in the book by Henry Sloane Coffin, excerpted above.

thehomer:

Most Nigerians do not view prayer as just a spiritual exercise. Some people actually base important life changing decisions on it.

Nonetheless, it is a spiritual exercise all the same - whether decisions by some are based on prayer, or that prayer is seen in some other way to some other ends, they are all some form of spiritual experiences.

thehomer:

Skepticism is more of a mind set, a method of questioning claims that others may take for granted. It is a way by which most of us gain knowledge. People should not simply take any claims made at face value.

I don't have any problem with having a healthy form of skepticism, as long as we don't hide behind that as an excuse for some cheap arguments. Scientists in many instances adopt a skeptical approach to issues that border around the various sciences; but skepticism as a worldview is indeed a mindset - and its claims are what we must question.

To this end, when someone proposes a "skeptical society" or group as a movement for like-minded adherents on the basis of slurring other people's worldviews, we should begin to ask questions of the proposed skeptical society. In this case, I very much question the validity of the claimant's proposal as an alternative that promises a 'liberation' to Nigeria's problems. Since the OP seems to confuse between prayers and inventions, one must ask how his own skepticism has helped towards nation building - what technologies have his skepticism invented; how many graduates has his skeptical society employed among thousands who pour into the streets with a degree in hand? What does the OP actually say that shows he knows his onions and can demonstrate a good understanding of what it takes to help towards nation building?

thehomer:

I think that religion as it is practiced in Nigeria is still a major part of the problem because it simply gives too much room to blind faith.

The sort of skepticism being broached as an alternative is even far more blind - and that comes on the heels of the fact that many skeptics who rise to complain about Nigeria's problems just do not demonstrate a clear understanding of the diversity of the country's problems! To make a cheap argument, such skeptics narrow everything down to religion - and yet, they cannot tell us how their own skepticism as an alternative can promote national development in the scheme of things.

davidylan:

This is nonsense no offence here pls. If you had said that skeptics do not believe christian claims then fine . . . there ARE MILLIONS of claims YOU MINDLESSLY BELIEVE WITH NO supporting evidence! For example, how do you know a God doesnt exist? Have you PROVED THIS empirically and can provide us conclusive evidence?

No one knows whether or not a God exists. But it is much clearer that a Christian God as described in the Bible has such a low chance of existing, in fact, exists with equal chance as those listed by mazaje and many others not listed. Other lines of evidence against this Biblical God are the falsehoods in the bible, logical reasoning among other things.

Add to that the fact that humans have been creating gods, a skeptic would ask why should I believe this particular God above others? A skeptic would not believe simply because you have made this claim.

davidylan:

You believe God didnt create the earth right? Where is your proof that anyone else did?

The evidence is in the science of astronomy. From observations of planet and star formation in the cosmos.

davidylan:

what is your rational basis for thinking God doesnt exist? The false logic that says "lack of evidence = no evidence"?

No. See above.

davidylan:

atheism = blind faith that God doesnt exist without proof.

What do you consider good evidence?

profibadan:

Guys let us join the Nigeria Skeptical Society to provide alternative lifestyle in order to address the chaotic religious irrationalities bedevelling Nigerians, More than 7 have join since the announcement of this Post, mail profibadan@gmail.com or call 07060874312 to join

Do you have money to give out to Nigerians as an alternative since MONEY is the ONLY God they worship?. . . .

thehomer:

davidylan link=topic=450553.msg6088274#msg6088274 date=1274736026:

You believe God didnt create the earth right? Where is your proof that anyone else did?

The evidence is in the science of astronomy. From observations of planet and star formation in the cosmos.

Oh puhleease!! NO "science of astronomy" past, present or future has made any observations that the universe emerged on its own! If you have any such sciences that draws such a conclusion, please highlight it here for us.

mazaje:

profibadan link=topic=450553.msg6088327#msg6088327 date=1274736847:

Guys let us join the Nigeria Skeptical Society to provide alternative lifestyle in order to address the chaotic religious irrationalities bedevelling Nigerians, More than 7 have join since the announcement of this Post, mail profibadan@gmail.com or call 07060874312 to join

Do you have money to give out to Nigerians as an alternative since MONEY is the ONLY God they worship?. . . .

Ha, I suspected it would come down to this.

viaro:

The evidence is in the science of astronomy. From observations of planet and star formation in the cosmos.

Oh puhleease!! NO "science of astronomy" past, present or future has made any observations that the universe emerged on its own! If you have any such sciences that draws such a conclusion, please highlight it here for us.

But the science of astronomy has shown that the creation account of how the God davidylan and you believe in said he created the universe is wrong, no?. . . .

mazaje:

But the science of astronomy has shown that the creation account of how the God davidylan and you said he created the universe is wrong, no?. . . .

I don't think you read posts these days before your itchy fingers rush for a reply.

Anyhow, my guy mazaje, take it easy and let me point out my concern in thehomer's rejoinder.

(1) This is what Davidylan said:

davidylan:

You believe God didnt create the earth right? Where is your proof that anyone else did?

It's quite simple: since thehomer does not believe God created the earth, what proof has the latter (thehomer) that anyone else did? It is not a question of a creation account of "how" God created the UNIVERSE - but rather about whether God created it at all.

(2) To this, thehomer replied:

thehomer:

The evidence is in the science of astronomy. From observations of planet and star formation in the cosmos.

Thus, when someone says that evidence of the "creation" [whether of the earth or UNIVERSE] is in the science of astronomy, I wonder if he/she is saying that the science of astronomy shows creation by God or someone else; or altogether that the science of astronomy makes a conclusive case that the UNIVERSE or earth created itself without a Creator.

Now, when you say this:

mazaje:

But the science of astronomy has shown that the creation account of how the God davidylan and you believe in said he created the universe is wrong, no?. . . .

. . . my direct question is this: where has astronomy argued against the creation of the Universe? Or yet, how has the science of astronomy "shown" that God created the Universe is "wrong"?

I sometimes wonder whether this whole argument atheists often betake themselves to, is just a mind-game not to be taken with any measure of serious discussion. I am very interested in how astronomy has shown that the Universe created itself entirely on its own (if that is another way to put it). . . or that the Universe emerged entirely on its own.

@profibadan

Silly idea. that been dead from the inception. How can a body of "skeptics" liberate a country full of "believers"?

babaearly:

How can a body of "skeptics" liberate a country full of "believers"?

That is the one issue he's not telling anything. Forget whether or not a country like Nigeria has believers - but just how can skepticism "liberate" Nigeria or any country for that matter?

^^
You are getting it wrongly. . .When thehomer was talking about God, he is talking about the God of the bible who davidylan believes in, The God who's creation account is written in the book of genesis. . . .When davidylan talked about God(God of the bible of course) creating the universe thehomer then pointed to the fact that mordern astronomy shows that the creation account which the bible God whom davidylan believes created the universe is wrong. . . .The universe did NOT come about that way from observable evidence. . . . .Which God are you talking about? If you are talking about the bible God and how he said he created the universe we can then takes his words and how he said he created the univese and compare it with the observable evidence and see if they match. .  .They don't. . . .And that is the point thehomer was talking about. . . .Science does not say that any God created or did not create the universe but it sure tells us that the creation account we have of the  many Gods such as Allah, Yaweh, Zeus etc creating the universe are FALSE. . . .Even Christain cosmologist have relagated the creation accounts in genesis to allegories. . . .Very telling. . . .

mazaje:

^^
You are getting it wrongly. . .When thehomer was talking about God, he is talking about the God of the bible who davidylan believes in, The God who's creation account is written in the book of genesis. . . .When davidylan talked about God(God of the bible of course) creating the universe thehomer then pointed to the fact that mordern astronomy shows that the creation account which the bible God whom davidylan believes created the universe is wrong. . . .The universe did NOT come about that way from observable evidence. . . . .Which God are you talking about? If you are talking about the bible God and how he said he created the universe we can then takes his words and how he said he created the univese and compare it with the observable evidence and see if they match. . .They don't. . . .And that is the point thehomer was talking about. . . .Science does not say that any God created or did not create the universe but it sure tells us that the creation account we have of the many Gods such as Allah, Yaweh, Zeus etc creating the universe are FALSE. . . .Even Christain cosmologist have relagated the creation accounts in genesis to allegories. . . .Very telling. . . .

You didn't explain anything, and again just ignored what I pointed out so you could post hastily.

Let me make it simple for you: where is the science of astronomy that argues that the UNIVERSE created itself? Please deal with that simple question - that is what I replied to thehomer to help sort out.

If you can't deal with that question, please don't try to entertain me with long evasive complaints. Give me the answer from the so-called "science of astronomy". Next time learn to digest posts before you hastily reply.

viaro:

You didn't explain anything, and again just ignored what I pointed out so you could post hastily.

Let me make it simple for you: where is the science of astronomy that argues that the UNIVERSE created itself? Please deal with that simple question - that is what I replied to thehomer to help sort out.

Where did thehomer say that astronomy says that the universe created it self?. . . . .His answer to davidylan was simple. Modern astronomy shows that the creation account of how his God said he created the universe is false. . . . .As usual you will not want to address that instead you will always prefer to run around talking about God  as a broad entity as if the God you believe in did not give you and others a detailed account of how he allegedly created  the universe.

If you can't deal with that question, please don't try to entertain me with long evasive complaints. Give me the answer from the so-called "science of astronomy". Next time learn to digest posts before you hastily reply.

Just where did thehomer state that  the science of astronomy stated any of the things you are talking about? His answer was clear and it he was referring to a particular God, and he used modern astronomy as his evidence against that particular God hypothesis. . .

mazaje:

Where did thehomer say that astronomy says that the universe created it self?. . . . .His answer to davidylan was simple modern astronomy shows that the creation account of how his God said he created the universe is false.

Please stop lying for him. Thehomer did not say what you're at pains to explain on his behalf - and at risk of not misquoting him, I outlined my concerns and left the question open in post #49. I don't read anywhere in any line of thehomer in this thread talking about creation account anywhere - and if you're insinuating that thehomer did not infer that the universe created itself, I don't see how you should be reading your own ideas into his post.

The issues are simple and straight forward: Davidylan asked that since thehomer does not believe that God created the [earth/Universe], what proof does the latter have that someone else did it - to which thehomer replied: "The evidence is in the science of astronomy." If that is saying that thehomer wishes to argue for "someone else", who is that someone else then? On the other hand, if he says that the science of astronomy is evidence that God did not create the [earth/UNIVERSE], then I would very much like to see how he argues his case from the same science of astronomy anyhow and anywher. This has nothing to do anywhere with thehomer saying that he was trying to falsify any "creation account" - and I wonder how you are at pains to misread that into his post to now make it your own argument.

My question is simple as well: drawing from what thehomer says, please show me from the science of astronomy how anyone would imagine that the UNIVERSE came into existence entirely on its own - since that is another way of saying the same thing as "the Universe created itself". If the idea that God created the Universe is "wrong", then how does the science of astronomy show that the same UNIVERSE emerged completely on its own without any Creator? All you need to do is show me the case for a science of astronomy that establishes that otherwise "no-Creator" inference, rather than turning this into a brainless argument and platform for your misplaced atheism.

mazaje:

. . .As usual you will not want to address that instead you will always prefer to run around talking about God  as a broad entity as if the God you believe in did not give you and others a detailed account of how he allegedly created  the universe.

No, you are the one evading the simple question I asked and letting your atheism run everywhere without dealing with what I have posted. Not to even mention the fact that you are reading your own ideas into thehomer's post that he did not even mention a dot about what you are forcing into them.

mazaje:

Just where did thehomer state that  the science of astronomy stated any of the things you are talking about?

I did not draw any conclusion or force any interpretation into his post - that is why I laid out my concerns and asked questions in post #49, being careful to use such expressions as "I wonder if he/she is saying. . .  OR altogether that. . ."  I did not force anything into his posts anywhere; and there's no coming back of thehomer to claim that he was saying what you read into his post - that would be plain false and flying in the face of what does not appear in his post. If he is in doubt, I could ask the questions again.

mazaje:

His answer was clear and it he was referring to a particular God, and he used modern astronomy as his evidence against that particular God hypothesis. . .

That is all hogwash - he did not use the science of astronomy against any God. I have quoted davidylan's post directly upon which I quoted thehomer's. Please read post #49 again and see how I juxtaposed them, editing nothing. Besides all this, did you not acquiesce that the science does not argue anything against or about God creating the universe? Just to not risk anything in your post, I cite a relevant section from yours again:

mazaje:

Science does not say that any God created or did not create the universe . . .

So, if science does not argue about God, you deem to foist your own argument of God to make science say what it does not? Please take a careful look at your signature - you may need it just about here: "Pretending 2 know things that you don't know is d lifeblood of religion". . . which makes me wonder that you have a religion already that simply does not know what it wants to argue.

^^

Long talk with no substance at all, as usual you prefer chasing shadows. . . .The point is simple, The God they were talking about there is the God of the bible whom davidylan says created the universe, thehomers objection to that claim was modern astronomy which simply shows that the universe was NOT created by that God since the way that God said he created the universe is all there for all to read in the book of genesis. . .You can deny it all you want with all you long epistles, but it does not change the fact of what thehomer was talking about. . .

So, if science does not argue about God, you deem to foist your own argument of God to make science say what it does not? Please take a careful look at your signature - you may need it just about here: "Pretending 2 know things that you don't know is d lifeblood of religion". . . which makes me wonder that you have a religion already that simply does not know what it wants to argue.

Sure science does not talk about any god but it does show and tell us that the creation accounts that all the Gods of man made religions have inspired or are FALSE. . . .

If the request is wrong, God says, "No." If the timing is wrong, God says, "Slow." If you are wrong, God says, "Grow." But if the request is right, the timing is right and you are right, God says, "Go!" -- Bill Hybels

Who said that God doesn't answer prayers?

mazaje:

^^

Long talk with no substance at all, as usual you prefer chasing shadows. . . .The point is simple, The God they were talking about there is the God of the bible whom davidylan says created the universe, thehomers objection to that claim was modern astronomy which simply shows that the universe was NOT created by that God since the way that God said he created the universe is all there for all to read in the book of genesis. . .You can deny it all you want with all you long epistles, but it does not change the fact of what thehomer was talking about. . .

I offered you a very simple outline earlier, you ranted all you wanted and yet produced absolutely nothing for your arguments. Nevermind the duplicity of trying to read your own argument into thehomer's posts, I went ahead to simplify it for you again in post #53, and yet again you baulked. Why do you guys play fast games and after all the noise you end up with such blowouts? Dude, please go it easy on your flat tyres - if you don't have anything to say, just shut up.

mazaje:

Sure science does not talk about any god but it does show and tell us that the creation accounts that all the Gods of man made religions have inspired or are FALSE. . .

You must be on cheap gin. What 'science' argues anything about God anywhere? This is worse than straight lying without shame on your part. I shoulda known you won't bring anything to the table for serious discussion - that is why you will make so much noise about science up and down the street and yet confuse yourself all the more.

No worries, mazaje. . . I still hold this part of your post as the only honest remark you made tonight:

mazaje:

Science does not say that any God created or did not create the universe . .

Enjoy plenty.

The prophet Isaiah through prayer tells us in the Bible that the earth is round:

"It is He that sits upon the circle of the earth" (Isaiah 40:22).

This is not a reference to a flat disk, as you skeptics think, but to a sphere. Secular man only came to discover this 2,400 years later. And this was at a time when skeptic thought that the earth was flat. It was the Scriptures through prayer and study that inspired Christopher Columbus to discover a "New World" on his voyage. This is it from the horses' mouth:

"It was the Lord who put it into my mind . . . I could feel His hand upon me . . . There is no question the inspiration was from the Holy Spirit because He comforted me with rays of marvelous illumination from the Holy Scriptures. . . No one should fear to undertake any task in the name of our Saviour if it is just and if the intention is purely for His holy service. The gospel must still be preached to so many lands in such a short time. This is what convinces me." -- Christopher Columbus (from his diary, in reference to his discovery of "the New World".

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart; and lean not unto your own understanding." -- Proverbs 3:6

I like to say that some of the most progressive countries of the world are secular. Take the Scandinavain countries into consideration. Skepticsm is a philosophy which allows you to question the before choosing to believe or not to believe, even your bible says you should find out what everything and hold on to that which is the truth.

If a child dies, the Christians console the parents that is is an act of God, if the baby recovers from illness, it is an act of God, Bimbo Odukoya perished in a plane crash, that was also an act of God. When are we going to stop acting foolish and blame our inefficiency instead of using God as answers to all things. Viaro stop defending what is not what defending.

If everything and every existing beings have a creator,
If God is an existing being,
Who created God?

If you admit that God does not have a creator, and you also claim, he is an existing being, then you have contracted yourself. So it is also right to understand that the universe does not have a created. Man went to the moon with years of research, that some western world claim some believe in God does not mean they use God as an excuse. Some of them have redefined there concept of God faraway from the bible. They have Gay Anglican bishop in Britain and the USA. They supports divorce. All these are anti-biblical. Guys wake up we have work to do. Join the Nigeria Skeptical Society: profibadan@gmail.com

@profibadan,

I observe you're either too full of yourself or one lazy thinker crawling out of damp and dark recesses. If you wanted to just advertise your lazy skeptical society, by all means do so. But when you assume to read your own shallow ideas into viaro's post, you're calling for some schooling up.

profibadan:

I like to say that some of the most progressive countries of the world are secular. Take the Scandinavain countries into consideration. Skepticsm is a philosophy which allows you to question the before choosing to believe or not to believe, even your bible says you should find out what everything and hold on to that which is the truth.

This is a cheap argument. The Scandinavian countries you are on about did not rise to their level of development by any 'skeptical' movement or society. That is why I posted a vid earlier (post #17) on the study by Dr. Hans Rosling - there you will find how Swedish studies are conducted that benefit everyone, not because they sat down and started making these stupid cheap noise about 'skeptical societies' you're advertizing. Your skepticism is cheap and lazy, non-productive and that is why you never address real issues and have no clues about what nation building is all about.

profibadan:
If a child dies, the Christians console the parents that is is an act of God, if the baby recovers from illness, it is an act of God, Bimbo Odukoya perished in a plane crash, that was also an act of God. When are we going to stop acting foolish and blame our inefficiency instead of using God as answers to all things. Viaro stop defending what is not what defending.

What have I tried to "defend" that you're seeking to hang on my neck in that quote ^^ ??

profibadan:

If everything and every existing beings have a creator,
If God is an existing being,
Who created God?

I wish you came to this forum much earlier to see where I addressed that question. Take the advice given you in post #15 and read through some of the discussions that predate your arrival, or better still make enquiries and seek a discussion. In so far as I have not posited that God must need a creator to bring Him into existence, it then becomes your own problem to show who created the Creator. It is okay to lazily deny that there is a Creator; but it is another thing to beg the question by suggesting a strawman that even you cannot address.

profibadan:

If you admit that God does not have a creator, and you also claim, he is an existing being, then you have contracted yourself.

How have I contradicted myself? I want you to address that question pronto, because it would help us determine where your skepticism is going. You don't have a clue about the word "create/creation", do you?

profibadan:
So it is also right to understand that the universe does not have a created.

Very good - now you also have joined the ring of those who let their atheism run wild. For the moment, let's leave out the postulation of any Creator having created the Universe - since that seems to be the nightmare of you lot - now, please show me from any science how this Universe came into existence completely and entirely on its own. I've tried to ask this question once in another thread ('Can Anything Come Out Of Nothing?') - do you care to address this or rather go to the other thread and let's see what substance you can add there to make your case?

profibadan:
Man went to the moon with years of research, that some western world claim some believe in God does not mean they use God as an excuse. Some of them have redefined there concept of God faraway from the bible. They have Gay Anglican bishop in Britain and the USA. They supports divorce. All these are anti-biblical. Guys wake up we have work to do. Join the Nigeria Skeptical Society: profibadan@gmail.com

I'm glad that the examples you gave are also termed by you to be "anti-biblical" rather than Biblical. However, how does man's landing on the moon justify the raison d'etre for your "skeptical society"? How does man's landing on the moon show how the Universe came into existence completely on its own without any inference of having been created? How does that even display a basis for anyone using God as an excuse? Do you even understand the meaning of "research"?

I hope that those who are "joining" your club already see what a pitiful crap you want to sell them - you don't have any substance in your posts, nothing to show about the real problems Nigeria faces (apart from your cheap arguments to lazily narrow it down to religion); nothing of substance presented in your posts in this thread that promises a light at the end of the tunnel - all empty talk and excuses. This lazy empty talk is the best you offer them for your proposed "skeptical society"? Good. (I now feel even more sorry that you're one more bigger problem than a solution to Nigeria).

Viaro, I will not dignify your intellectual poverty and weak reasoning with responses as you have failed to address the issues I raised but take it upon yourself to be a Crusader for what can never be proven. If only you can tell me the true God among the over 1,000 gods and goddesses in the world. Sketpics do not claim to have answers to all of life experiences but we do not subscribe to weak escapism by proposing concepts that are irrational, like trinity and God creating Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden only for Cain to kill Abel and Cain was said visit the city of Nod to marry a wife after we had been told that only 4 people existed in the world.

Please Viaro, We skeptics are careful to make blind and stupid conclusions, what we do not know, we dont attribute to God or spirits. please go and preach your gospel ton intellectual imbeciles like yourself