edoyad:

Come on guys, do you believe that "trying to wrest gun from the arms of a police officer" line ? That's like the oldest line in law enforcement, i'm sure even the Romans used it when asked why they killed Jesus.

dude, u have a serious point there, what kind of well trained police wil allow a suspect come to close to the extent of scuffling wit him for his gun

bk/babe97:

" Ah, that Yeshua guy? Oh, yeah, he was trying to wrest the spear from Centurion Augustus Dominus of Arganet, so, the archers took him down. . . "

**shakes head in disgusts, asks bk to stop, the joke wasnt funny**

edoyad:

Come on guys, do you believe that "trying to wrest gun from the arms of a police officer" line ? That's like the oldest line in law enforcement, i'm sure even the Romans used it when asked why they killed Jesus.

dude, u have a serious point there, what kind of well trained police wil allow a suspect come to close to the extent of scuffling wit him for his gun

bk/babe97:

" Ah, that Yeshua guy? Oh, yeah, he was trying to wrest the spear from Centurion Augustus Dominus of Arganet, so, the archers took him down. . . "

**shakes head in disgusts, asks bk to stop, the joke wasnt funny**

@ Joanna.T

Thank you very much for your incisive and unbiased comments. I join you in your efforts at unravelling the truth and bringing justice.

People here were already jumping on the bandwagon condemning the innocent fellow nigerian killed without waiting to verify the story. I said it in my posts above, smell the coffee, this is a stitch up.

The lesson here is that some nigerians are so unsympathetic towards diasporan nigerians. They are so quick to bash them at any given opportunity. There is need for change of attitude.

snowdrops:

The lesson here is that some nigerians are so unsympathetic towards diasporan nigerians. They are so quick to bash them at any given opportunity. There is need for change of attitude.

Being sympathetic or not is not the issue but the fact that someone was killed and the person was not stopped on the road and shot on the spot.

How many Nigerians have they shot in Poland? Why didn't they shoot others instead of arresting them?

Why the guy? Until someone is able to tell us what really transpired especially why he was even being chased I guess we will be basing our comments on newspaper reports.

@Snowdrops:  My warm thanks for your very kind words. They will support me in my efforts to try to get as close as possible to the truth on this event.

@Afam: It seems that you haven't read my post on this killing or that you have read it very unattentively. The man who was killed (his name was Maxwell) was not the one who was chased by the police. As to your questions: it is the first Nigerian the Polish police have shot. Why was he shot ? Of course the policeman himself could answer this question, but he has not said anything on this subject. However, there is at least one witness (most probably a Nigerian) who has described this event to the media. In a minute I will post here the link to the video with the witness's story (he speaks in English and it is translated into Polish).

Until someone is able to tell us what really transpired especially why he was even being chased I guess we will be basing our comments on newspaper reports.

Afam, I have carefully listened to what the witness said and also listened to what the wives of some of the street vendors were saying (I can translate what the women said into English for you and others). Besides that, I have to base my comments on media reports because there is nothing else. The police version is unconvincing and has changed a few times. The investigation into the killing has just begun and may be long.

The witness, a street vendor, is speaking in English. There is only one video at this link, so no one will have any difficulty to find it.

[url]http://policyjni.gazeta.pl/Policyjni/10,91135,7934266,Swiadek__Policjant_odepchnal_go_i_strzelil__.html[/url]

SLIGHT:

dude, u have a serious point there, what kind of well trained police wil allow a suspect come to close to the extent of scuffling wit him for his gun **shakes head in disgusts, asks bk to stop, the joke wasnt funny**

Ah, please take ur bigotted aszz somewhere else!!! Religious nut!!!

Banded together on the Internet. In the evening, about a hundred young people turned up at the bus Station Stadium. Where he died on Sunday, Nigerian police bullet mortally wounded.

Read also: Death of Nigerian - more questions than answers


Drums, whistles, chants

They brought drums and banners: "Enough of police violence", "Your system murdered immigrants. Police killed 23 May 2010 year."

- Police chasing those who toil hard to earn their livelihood. There is no such category as a man illegally. Open borders, closed rule! - Shouted through loudspeakers.

- Nigerians say they have already been attacked by the police. Witnesses say the shot was not the one who fled, tried to explain that he stood in defense of a colleague. A lot of people from the Stadium is here legally, have a family. They have traded in the bazaar to survive - he told the young man. He did not want to introduce myself.

Suddenly, someone threw: - Come to the Grenadier.

The demonstrators marched Street. Zamoyski and Grochowska. They walked down the street, beat the drums and whistled. Chanted through a megaphone: "One, two, three, four. Enough of the hell of racism", "Stop police violence."

- Policemen is not on hand to explain the matter. Already it is handling the information - told Luke Wojcik, one of the demonstrators.

- Is there instead if black was white Varsovian Nigeria, is also that there would be a tragedy? - Asked Alina Synokiewicz.

- There were no indications to the use of weapons - said American Laura Akai.

Nigeria: We're not criminals

Before the police station in Grochow demonstrators shouted to release all those detained in Sunday's riots. Officers from the windows recorded picket. After a few minutes came out a few uniformed policemen. One of them approached the demonstrators. He asked who is the organizer. He heard that it was so spontaneous. The crowd chanted: "Police have blood on their hands." Police officers returned to the police station.

The crowd also appeared Nigerians. Several spoke. They said that the officer who fatally shot their fellow countryman, insulted them earlier. - Threatened to kill - he told one of them.

Another black man - We are not criminals. Do not trade in drugs, cigarettes, alcohol. We sell najki and trainers. Counterfeit goods are everywhere, but why shoot at people for selling counterfeit goods? Do not give up, we want justice. Killed our brother. We will go to the European Union.

After an hour before the police station appeared in dozens of officers in uniform and in mufti. They were policemen in helmets. Around the street zaparkowało dozen cars. It started legitimated. People were calm, handed their instruments. After hours. 21 all dispersed.

Wives of the prosecution

Detained in Sunday's riots were yesterday interrogated by the prosecutor's office in Prague Bródnowski. At the news of the husbands were waiting for their wives. - I am eight months pregnant, I have a 2.5-year old child. The second day trying to find out where is my husband. There is no information - complained Alinoch Agnes, the wife of one of the Nigerians.

Krukowska Catherine, the wife of another detainee, told me that chair. 6 in the morning the police came to the house. - They asked whether the husband takes drugs and beats me. As we waited here, police officers, joking, we recorded the cell.

There was also a deadly postrzelonego Nigerian wife with three small children. Only the eldest daughter, said what happened. - No one offered me help. I do not even told me that my husband was killed. They asked to go home - claimed.

That is the translation from google

Joanna.T:

@Afam: It seems that you haven't read my post on this killing or that you have read it very unattentively. The man who was killed (his name was Maxwell) was not the one who was chased by the police. As to your questions: it is the first Nigerian the Polish police have shot. Why was he shot ? Of course the policeman himself could answer this question, but he has not said anything on this subject. However, there is at least one witness (most probably a Nigerian) who has described this event to the media. In a minute I will post here the link to the video with the witness's story (he speaks in English and it is translated into Polish).

As I stated earlier, I don't believe in blame games, we need to know what transpired.

Pharoh:

That is the translation from google

Thanks for the post. From the post.

Another black man - We are not criminals. Do not trade in drugs, cigarettes, alcohol. We sell najki and trainers. Counterfeit goods are everywhere, but why shoot at people for selling counterfeit goods? Do not give up, we want justice. Killed our brother. We will go to the European Union.

While not supporting the killing I need to ask why people find it difficult to obey simply laws. If a country says no to counterfeit goods why engage in them? I had always asked why the guy? Why not the others? Are there reported cases where law abiding Nigerians are picked up, chased and killed by the police?

Where is Emmanuel Olisadebe to tell us what really happened? Oh! I forgot that he has a Polish citizenship and his beautiful Polish wife asked him to shut the bleep up.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/cup2002/2002-06-13-poland.htm

@Afam
what nationality are you? Are you an expat Eastern European by any chance?

@texazzpete
Same question to you:
what nationality are you?

I cannot believe you guys could be Nigerians.

GenBuhari:

@Afam
what nationality are you? Are you an expat Eastern European by any chance?

@texazzpete
Same question to you:
what nationality are you?

I cannot believe you guys could be Nigerians.

I am a Nigerian but certainly not a sycophant or hypocrite and I don't play to the gallery.

Any other question?

Well, computer translations have serious weaknesses, although the one sent by Pharoh is much better than I would have expected. There is a passage which is impossible to comprehend, but important. This is a corrected version:

"As we were waiting here, some police officers were recording us on their cell phones for a joke.

There was also the wife of the killed Nigerian with her three small children. She told only her eldest daughter what happened. - No one offered me help. I was not even told that my husband was killed. They told me to go home - she claimed."

@ adconline

Olisadebe no longer lives in Poland, he is now playing for the Chinese Henan Jiyanye. By the way, he says that he prefers Asia to Europe because he feels more respected in Asia.

@ Afam

I see that I have to repeat once more: the killed man was not chased by the police.

I had always asked why the guy? Why not the others?

As I have said in another post, only the policeman knows why he fired, but he has told nothing to the media. A witness (I had posted a link to a video with his story) says than when the police was brutal towards another Nigerian street vendor, Maxwell I. (the killed man) came to the policeman who later killed him and said: "Why you have to treat this boy like that ? Because he's black ? Don't touch him like that ! Speak to him slowly ! Speak to him slowly, he will listen to you." The policeman told Maxwell to pull back (they were very close to each other). Then he pushed Maxwell back and at the same moment he shot. Later he even tried to help the dying man, he tried to stop his bleeding with some clothes.

I am certainly not playing any blame games. I don't claim that the policeman killed Maxwell in cold blood. Perhaps it was only a tragic accident, perhaps the policeman is now devastated by what he did. But it is certain that the police have been lying, that the official versions (there were a few of them) were blaming the victim and presenting all black street vendors as aggressive thugs. It was the police who has tried to play "blame games". And it is certain that the policeman should not have been using a gun in this situation. These people were not dangerous gangsters.

bk/babe97:

Ah, please take your bigotted aszz somewhere else!!! Religious nut!!!

and what u gonna do chase me? Hxahxkçwi i laugh in polskí. U are the 1 who's bigotted by showing so much hate for Jesus, stop it!

@ Afam

You are right, we need to know what transpired. But as I had said earlier, the police versions of the event were very questionable and contradictory. The first version presented the street vendors as irrationally aggressive and blamed the killed man for his fate (at the beginning he was even presented as a dangerous criminal). Later the police changed their story.  There are people who describe this killing in a very different way. Currently we don't know what really happened, but we know that the police have been lying, and that there was a very troubling, perhaps even racist, element in the stories told by the police. We also know that the policeman was using a gun when he should not be doing this. Let me also add that this event became a pretext for countless Polish racists to vent their hatred of all black people.  Do you really think that we should not discuss this killing, the police versions, the killing's image in the media and the consequences of this event before the end of the investigation ?

If a country says no to counterfeit goods why engage in them?

Afam, I think that you know perfectly well that lots of people choose to engage in illegal activities for various socioeconomic reasons. They may choose such activities because they are unable to find a legal source of income (e.g. because of a high unemployment rate) or because the incomes from legal activities are very low. The killed Maxwell I. had three children. It is said that he supplemented his low income from a legal source by selling counterfeited clothes. It is difficult to find a legal well-paid job in Poland, especially when you are black. I don't claim that Maxwell I. had no other choice, but his job opportunities were certainly very limited.

GenBuhari:

@Afam
what nationality are you? Are you an expat Eastern European by any chance?

@texazzpete
Same question to you:
what nationality are you?

I cannot believe you guys could be Nigerians.

So because i'm Nigerian i'm supposed to toe the 'Nigerian good, foreigner bad' line everytime there's an incident involving a Nigerian overseas?

You people reason like kids. if you want to show your patriotism, go out and vote in 2011 and pay your taxes promptly. it's not insisting on racial bias the instant something happens outside the country.

This was how ignorant people here on Nairaland were complaining of racism when dutch police arrested many Nigerians during Osuofia's concert in Amsterdam. I got to Amsterdam one month after and was informed by many Nigerians of how illegal immigrants fought the dutch police to avoid being deported.

We had no proof of what really happened until recently, so there was absolutely nothing wrong with the position myself and Afam took in this matter.

@ texazzpete

Do you think that it is morally right to deport undocumented immigrants and that it is morally wrong when these people oppose deportation ?

SLIGHT:

and what u gonna do chase me? Hxahxkçwi i laugh in polskí. U are the 1 who's bigotted by showing so much hate for Jesus, stop it!

I show hate for Jesus? R u 4 realla?!!? R u on drugs or did u skip ur meds? Like I sad earlier "Religious nut, be gone from my sight"

Here are two passages from an article which was published today by a Polish newspaper:

"- There was no fight between the policeman and Maxwell, the riots began only when we saw that he was dead - says Kevin, a witness to the event.

- How did the shooting happen ?
- Two Africans began to run from the police, they were chased by two policeman. Sometimes those who are selling Nike or Adidas clothes and shoes don't have a <licence> from the company which is producing them. Apparently the two men had no such licence. The police wanted to arrest at least one of the men in order to make him explain where he got these things from. They caught one of them and handcuffed him, Maxwell asked them to let the man free. Then the policeman said: pull back or I'll shoot you and he fired.

- He said: <I'll shoot you> or <I'll shoot> ?

- <I'll shoot you>, he said. - Kevin hesitates and answers after a moment of reflexion.

- Has no one tried to wrestle the gun from the policeman's hands ?

- No, they certainly did not touch the policemen.

- Were they not aggressive towards the policemen ?

- No. The policeman was visibly afraid. He was asking people for help. When the crowd saw that the man was dead, a turmoil began. The Africans started throwing stones at police cars. The policeman ran away when he saw how people were furious. There was no fight with the policemen, no wrestling of the gun, contrary to the claims in some sources. It has been said to hush up the affair. We are often accused of being aggressive. It is true that if someone does not know us, it may look like this. The way we are talking to each other, our tone of voice, the fact that we gesticulate a lot, it may seem aggressive to someone, but it is not aggressive."

The second passage:

A witness claims that the police has taken from him the SIM card from the phone on which he filmed the events. Other films are said to have been confiscated by the police."

The source: [url]http://wyborcza.pl/1,75248,7935923,Handlarz_ze_Stadionu__policjant_mowil_ze_zastrzeli.html[/url] (the original article is in Polish)

@ Joanna.T
Please realize that some persons here are fastidious. This thread is not about them but about the Nigerian with a WIFE AND THREE CHILDREN murdered by the polish police.

Thanks again for your regular update. As reported in some sections of the media the Nigerian government is quizzing its polish counterparts in what happened. Thats pleasing to know.
On our individual level, i believe setting up like a facebook/twitter group will be a nice start. I intend to begin one if you or others have not already done so.

Weldone.

@ snowdrops

Thanks, I am really happy that the info I am sending is of help. As far as I know, no one has yet set a Facebook or Twitter group devoted to this issue. It would be a great idea to create such a group. I am not yet on Facebook or Twitter, but of course I am ready to subscribe to one of them - when you set up the group, just let me know !

And as to "some persons here" - well, I must say that I appreciate the fact that (despite differences of views) it is a forum where discussion is possible and where people generally make an effort to communicate their views in a courteous manner. It is immensely refreshing in comparison with many Polish forums (moderated forums included) ,

Joanna.T:

@ texazzpete

Do you think that it is morally right to deport undocumented immigrants and that it is morally wrong when these people oppose deportation ?

Yes, it is morally right to deport undocumented immigrants. 'Undocumented' is another way of saying 'illegal'
When a deportee physically opposes deportation, it's an offense.

I will do that and let you know when its ready.

Cheers.

@ texazzpete

Thank you for your answer. I used the word "undocumented immigrants" because (like many others) I reject the expression "illegal immigrants". I see that our views on the deportation issue are very different. I will not try to convince you to change your mind. I will limit myself to three questions (which I don't expect you to answer): 1. Are you of the same opinion if the immigrant has lived in the host country for years ?  If s/he founded a family in this country ? Or if s/he simply fell in love with someone living in this country ? Would you be of the same opinion if you knew that the immigrant is universally considered as a good-hearted and hard-working person who brings a positive contribution to his/her community ?

2. Would you say the same if, say, your brother or sister, or a close friend, was an undocumented immigrant in danger of deportation ?

3. Have you ever seen the film "Blame It on Voltaire" by the French-Tunisian director Abdellatif Kechiche (it is also known under the titles "It's Voltaire's fault" and "Poetical Refugee" ? If not, I warmly recommend it to you (and all others). Not only it is a magnificent and profound film, but it also asks very important questions on undocumented immigration and the deportation of undocumented migrants.

Here is the video of the death

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=428094730780

Joanna.T:

@ texazzpete

Thank you for your answer. I used the word "undocumented immigrants" because (like many others) I reject the expression "illegal immigrants". I see that our views on the deportation issue are very different. I will not try to convince you to change your mind. I will limit myself to three questions (which I don't expect you to answer): 1. Are you of the same opinion if the immigrant has lived in the host country for years ? If s/he founded a family in this country ? Or if s/he simply fell in love with someone living in this country ? Would you be of the same opinion if you knew that the immigrant is universely considered as a good-hearted and hard-working person who brings a positive contribution to his/her community ?

2. Would you say the same if, say, your brother or sister, or a close friend, was an undocumented immigrant in danger of deportation ?

3. Have you ever seen the film "Blame It on Voltaire" by the French-Tunisian director Abdellatif Kechiche (it is also known under the titles "It's Voltaire's fault" and "Poetical Refugee" ? If not, I warmly recommend it to you (and all others). Not only it is a magnificent and profound film, but it also asks very important questions on undocumented immigration and the deportation of undocumented migrants.

There are some people who are not flexible in the way they reason sometimes and that is not so good.

Though I am not texazzpete I will answer the questions and see if you can stop justifying illegal activities.

Joanna.T:

@ texazzpete

Thank you for your answer. I used the word "undocumented immigrants" because (like many others) I reject the expression "illegal immigrants". I see that our views on the deportation issue are very different. I will not try to convince you to change your mind. I will limit myself to three questions (which I don't expect you to answer): 1. Are you of the same opinion if the immigrant has lived in the host country for years ? If s/he founded a family in this country ? Or if s/he simply fell in love with someone living in this country ? Would you be of the same opinion if you knew that the immigrant is universely considered as a good-hearted and hard-working person who brings a positive contribution to his/her community ?

Undocumented immigrants should get documented and until they do that they are illegal immigrants. It seems you are more interested in supporting illegal immigrants and counterfeit business.

Joanna.T:

2. Would you say the same if, say, your brother or sister, or a close friend, was an undocumented immigrant in danger of deportation ?

Yes. No sentiments. In fact I tell my friends and relations to always do things right to avoid running foul of the laws of any land they get to.

Joanna.T:

3. Have you ever seen the film "Blame It on Voltaire" by the French-Tunisian director Abdellatif Kechiche (it is also known under the titles "It's Voltaire's fault" and "Poetical Refugee" ? If not, I warmly recommend it to you (and all others). Not only it is a magnificent and profound film, but it also asks very important questions on undocumented immigration and the deportation of undocumented migrants.

I have not seen any film and do not need to see anyone to address the issue of illegal immigrants. I may as well ask you to go and see some Nigerian home videos for you to understand this issue.

Olisadebe no longer lives in Poland, he is now playing for the Chinese Henan Jiyanye. By the way, he says that he prefers Asia to Europe because he feels more respected in Asia.
because he's no longer in form. Old style in England is a new style in Asia. BTW, does he still have Polish citizenship?

@ Afam

First of all, your reply clearly shows that you have completely misunderstood what I have written in my previous messages. You are accusing me of "justifying illegal activities" and of "supporting illegal immigrants and counterfeit business". I have not tried to "justify" illegal activities, I have only answered your question (let me remind you that you asked "Why do people engage in illegal activities ?" by indicating some socioeconomic factors which may induce people to engage in what you call "illegal activities". I support ALL human beings, also when they happen to be undocumented immigrants. I certainly don't support counterfeit business. I hope that those who have read my posts see how much you have distorted my words and intentions.

You state:

Undocumented immigrants should get documented and until they do that they are illegal immigrants.[

If it were so easy as you claim, there would be no undocumented immigrants in this world. You seem to think that some people enjoy being undocumented immigrants. It shows that either you know nothing at all about immigration and immigrants (it would be unbelievable in the case of a Nigerian !), or that you thought that you would intimidate me by this blunt but absurd answer. I am not so easily intimidated.

I may as well ask you to go and see some Nigerian home videos for you to understand this issue.

I have not asked texazzpete to see this film "for him to understand this issue". I have only said that this film asked some important questions on the issue of undocumented immigration. Are you really unable to see the difference ? I have not said anything condescending in my reply to texazzpete, if this is what you are trying to insinuate.  And if you really think that I would understand the problem better if I saw some Nigerian films, why don't you simply mention some titles instead of being so spiteful ?

I am simply shocked by the very unkind tone of your reply. I have never been inconsiderate to you or to texazzpete. I have never been arrogant or condescending towards you or texazzpete. I have certainly not deserved so much rudeness and spite. I cannot understand why you behave in this way. When someone is so unpleasant towards people who have not done him any harm, he usually has some serious psychological problems.

I have replied to your post only because I don't want you to think that I have been intimidated by your unkindness and malevolence. I will no longer reply to any of your posts because they simply don't deserve it.

@texazzpete  & afam
there was something not right about the way you two were so quick to rush to conclusion in assuming the Nigerians were in the wrong and the European police were in the right.

This is why I questioned whether you were Nigerians.

Do yo not even feel sorry for the young man who lost his life - because I never heard most of you acknowledge this.

Even if a Nigerian had committed a crime abroad we should still show some sympathy and outrage for a brother's killing a far away land.

If we Nigerian do not defend our own and ourselves who is gonna?
is it a wonder that Nigerians are disrespected  with people like you two showing this disgraeful attitude.

texazzpete:

So because i'm Nigerian i'm supposed to toe the 'Nigerian good, foreigner bad' line everytime there's an incident involving a Nigerian overseas?

You people reason like kids. if you want to show your patriotism, go out and vote in 2011 and pay your taxes promptly. it's not insisting on racial bias the instant something happens outside the country.

This was how ignorant people here on Nairaland were complaining of racism when dutch police arrested many Nigerians during Osuofia's concert in Amsterdam. I got to Amsterdam one month after and was informed by many Nigerians of how illegal immigrants fought the dutch police to avoid being deported.

We had no proof of what really happened until recently, so there was absolutely nothing wrong with the position myself and Afam took in this matter.