sKeetz:
Its impossible to understand the things of the spirit with a carnal mind. You need the help. Holy Spirit to understand these things.

johnydon22:


I'd like to assume answers won't fall into this category

HardMirror:
keep assuming. Now i begin to appreciate dalaman's approach to religious matters. Rule number one: know you are dealing with dishonest id!ots

johnydon22:


I was referring to that particular kind of approach not dishonest arguments in general.

johnydon22:
The concept of predetermination, destiny (God's will) nullifies the whole idea of freewill but unsurprisingly they are both used interchangeably by people who believe mostly in both.

Predetermination suggests that everything has already been mapped out and set up by God. What you will do tomorrow has already been determined by God, what will happen? What you will eat, who you will meet.

But freewill entails that these factors that falls within the purview of choice are not determined yet, it is up to you to make these choices.

But can these two concepts be used together?

It is logically impossible cus it will only create a paradox.

If it is already determined that you will eat beans tomorrow (and you can't escape this determination) then there really wasn't any choice in the first place since you can't do otherwise.

But if the concept of freewill holds true then it annihilates the necessity of predetermination or in other words the idea of everything being God's will.

My question then is, which exactly is it?

Do we have freewill or is everything already predetermined?

Both can't hold true.

HardMirror:
Expect dishonest answers or total disregard for the question you are asking. Nairalanders are totally unimaginative, humdrum, wishywashy and unremarkable. Stvpid set of unintelligent beings. Yeah i said it!

CAPSLOCKED:





IN ORDER TO REMAIN RELIGIOUS, ONE MUST WORK EXTREMELY HARD TO BE AS GULLIBLE, UNINTELLIGENT, DISHONEST, AND CLOSE-MINDED AS POSSIBLE.

THE MOMENT YOU OPEN UP YOUR MIND AND ALLOW SENSE ENTER, MY BROTHER, RELIGION BECOMES WHAT IT TRULY IS.

A JOKE.

Emusan:
Let me point out a misconception here!
People haven't grabbed the attribute of God Omni-science so well.

God knows what will happen tomorrow is different from God has designed what will happen tomorrow.

The latter means man is still like a ROBOT

How man will live his life from start to finish wasn't designed by God but God knows how man will run it from start to finish, God only created man with individual ability to live life from start to finish.

So the misconception arises when we substitute our inbuilt drive that makes us who we are for a Robotic view (destiny or predetermination)

I'll shield more light later

Predetermination though happened on exceptional cases if God wants to intervene

sKeetz:
Its impossible to understand the things of the spirit with a carnal mind. You need the help of the Holy Spirit to understand these things.

Butterflyleo:


Ignore this thread bro.

All atheists seek is to ridicule and not to learn. No matter how nice they seem or how innocent they say their intentions might be, its all a facade.

Let them talk among themselves and see how they like it.

Gggg102:



that guy was trying to be sarcastic.

he's an atheist BTW.

Emusan:
Let me point out a misconception here!
People haven't grabbed the attribute of God Omni-science so well.

God knows what will happen tomorrow is different from God has designed what will happen tomorrow.

The latter means man is still like a ROBOT

How man will live his life from start to finish wasn't designed by God but God knows how man will run it from start to finish, God only created man with individual ability to live life from start to finish.

So the misconception arises when we substitute our inbuilt drive that makes us who we are for a Robotic view (destiny or predetermination)

I'll shield more light later

Predetermination though happened on exceptional cases if God wants to intervene

johnydon22:
I try to avoid making remarks such as this because it is an oversimplification to me.

Butterflyleo:


Ignore this thread bro.

All atheists seek is to ridicule and not to learn. No matter how nice they seem or how innocent they say their intentions might be, its all a facade.

Let them talk among themselves and see how they like it.

sKeetz:


Thats sarcasm, son. You missed it, flew right past your head, didn't it?

HardMirror:
how did that go with anas abi na anus your friend? You cant reason with idiots.

Butterflyleo:


Ignore this thread bro.

All atheists seek is to ridicule and not to learn. No matter how nice they seem or how innocent they say their intentions might be, its all a facade.

Let them talk among themselves and see how they like it.

johnydon22:
I hate to play a clear antagonism because of religious argument. (I used to years ago but now i do not really think it's necessary) if someone always hits below the bar and i think he/she is an idiot i simply ignore.

Anas on the other hand has always been too serious with her religious beliefs, she once told me it was her mission (Given by God) to convert me. She probably have abandoned this.

I understand how serious she takes her beliefs and therefore understand that overwhelming burst of emotion direct antagonism of her beliefs always awakes in her and due to our friendship, my mental health and healthy practice argument i tend to avoid this.

Other lots however that i feel are simply idioti_c (their are few who have earned this distinction here) i simply ignore them. I have been on this board long ago to pay attention to idioti_t trolls.

on the other, religious people who happen to want to argue or discuss normally i am always more than happy to oblige. There are few of these lot like dorox, very intelligent and sound fellow who argues objectively, disagrees without insults and always argues based on the presented premise of argument.

dalaman:


Learn what exactly? You think if your God truly exist as advertised you'll be the one to teach anybody anything about it? Only a God that exist in your deluded imaginations will rely on your or anybody to teach people anything about it. A God that is said to WANT people to know him and be in a personal relationship with him will do all his biddingstuff himself. An idea that wants humans to to propagate it will rely solely on humans to do it. You have nothing to teach anybody apart from your delusions. Keep wallowing in it.

HardMirror:
help me ask the clown o.

HardMirror:
john i set out on nairaland to reason with people, to share views, but over time i realize these set of people are nothing but scum! Lets not drag this issue. I wish you the best. I am sure of one thing anyway, this thread wld end up with idiotic replies as usual. All the best once again

Butterflyleo:
All THEISTS I hope you can read the above and see how right I was when I said that all the atheists wish to do is ridicule you and all you stand for when they open threads such as this.

NO MATTER HOW INNOCENT THEY TRY TO SOUND OR HOW THEY PLEAD AND TRY TO EXPLAIN, DO NOT FALL FOR THEIR GIMMICK.

Their true colours will always be revealed as seen above.

Using myself as the scapegoat here has proven this very easily on this thread.

They will insult, mock, heckle and brand you all sorts of names.

Ignore them and engage in more useful things such as further ignoring them.

Emusan:
Let me point out a misconception here!
People haven't grabbed the attribute of God Omni-science so well.

God knows what will happen tomorrow is different from God has designed what will happen tomorrow.

The latter means man is still like a ROBOT

How man will live his life from start to finish wasn't designed by God but God knows how man will run it from start to finish, God only created man with individual ability to live life from start to finish.

So the misconception arises when we substitute our inbuilt drive that makes us who we are for a Robotic view (destiny or predetermination)

I'll shield more light later

Predetermination though happened on exceptional cases if God wants to intervene

Gggg102:
I think butterflyleo is right. most atheist threads created nowadays follow the same pattern.
when topic is created(especially the ones calling on theists for an argument) the first people to comment are atheists and they only mock the belief of the theist. every topic is reduced to mockery on the first page. no theist show up. the purpose of the thread is defeated.

this thread would have made an interesting argument but it won't because the same thing has happened here.

the section is becoming boring.

johnydon22:
The concept of predetermination, destiny (God's will) nullifies the whole idea of freewill but unsurprisingly they are both used interchangeably by people who believe mostly in both.

Predetermination suggests that everything has already been mapped out and set up by God. What you will do tomorrow has already been determined by God, what will happen? What you will eat, who you will meet.

But freewill entails that these factors that falls within the purview of choice are not determined yet, it is up to you to make these choices.

But can these two concepts be used together?

It is logically impossible cus it will only create a paradox.

If it is already determined that you will eat beans tomorrow (and you can't escape this determination) then there really wasn't any choice in the first place since you can't do otherwise.

But if the concept of freewill holds true then it annihilates the necessity of predetermination or in other words the idea of everything being God's will.

My question then is, which exactly is it?

Do we have freewill or is everything already predetermined?

Both can't hold true.