Re: Yorubas Are Moors by 0balufonlll: 9:54am On Aug 16, 2018 |
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Re: Yorubas Are Moors by Obalufon: 12:05pm On Aug 16, 2018 |
0balufonlll:
Bro, you stated that ‘Historians said something’, I pleaded to have the names of these Historians and the work wherein they said this thing but you posted a quote from a blog weblink that has nothing to do with Historians, really?
You do know if you were at a conference presenting a paper or defending a research thesis this could ruin your entire work & profile? Like seriously, this weblink is the source of your claim apart from failing to provide names of Historian and the works? Wow.
Bro, that weblink is trash. It is filled with guesses and conjectures just like a lot of people come on Nairaland to post fantasies they come up with in their head. Every work be it original or secondary source-based requires a lot of time on the field or in books gathering data& no one, I mean no one, posts any work be it original or secondary source based on the internet after all the time they have put it. They either use journals or book publishinh houses.
Please do not contribute to the rot in Yoruba History. A lot of Historians have given up on Yoruba History because every Yoruba is now a pseudo-historian coming up with nonsensical crap. A good number of Historians have turned to contemporary history and the few that remain find it difficult to put out their work because pseudo historians are everywhere especially on the internet.
Bruh, if history interests you that much, instead of reading/posting web-links with faugazy history such as this, why not take money out of your pocket to buy journal articles on Jstor? Heck, you can even read for free on Jstor. You will find that after you read extensively you’ll find gaps, thirst for knowledge and hit the field to conduct oral questionings even if it is about your own hometown or immediate environment. That way you’ll approach the history of your place with authority and facts and help add to the reconstruction of Yoruba history as a whole.
The Yoruba History Research Scheme that started in the 50s by old Professors like Akinjogbins & co have done a lot of work. A lot of books/journal articles from this era abound in university libraries waiting to be read. You can assess your school/alma mater library for copies and read them. Posting conjectures & fantasies from the head & weblinks such as the one you posted is unfair to Yoruba & the coming generations. They will see these posts and get even more confused and possibly develop identity problems like some AAs who think they are Hebrew, Arab, Native Indians and they can be excused for their confusion but we can not.
Thank you, champ. Orunmila master Historian .. |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by Obalufon: 12:25pm On Aug 16, 2018 |
0balufonlll:
Bro, you stated that ‘Historians said something’, I pleaded to have the names of these Historians and the work wherein they said this thing but you posted a quote from a blog weblink that has nothing to do with Historians, really?
You do know if you were at a conference presenting a paper or defending a research thesis this could ruin your entire work & profile? Like seriously, this weblink is the source of your claim apart from failing to provide names of Historian and the works? Wow.
Bro, that weblink is trash. It is filled with guesses and conjectures just like a lot of people come on Nairaland to post fantasies they come up with in their head. Every work be it original or secondary source-based requires a lot of time on the field or in books gathering data& no one, I mean no one, posts any work be it original or secondary source based on the internet after all the time they have put it. They either use journals or book publishinh houses.
Please do not contribute to the rot in Yoruba History. A lot of Historians have given up on Yoruba History because every Yoruba is now a pseudo-historian coming up with nonsensical crap. A good number of Historians have turned to contemporary history and the few that remain find it difficult to put out their work because pseudo historians are everywhere especially on the internet.
Bruh, if history interests you that much, instead of reading/posting web-links with faugazy history such as this, why not take money out of your pocket to buy journal articles on Jstor? Heck, you can even read for free on Jstor. You will find that after you read extensively you’ll find gaps, thirst for knowledge and hit the field to conduct oral questionings even if it is about your own hometown or immediate environment. That way you’ll approach the history of your place with authority and facts and help add to the reconstruction of Yoruba history as a whole.
The Yoruba History Research Scheme that started in the 50s by old Professors like Akinjogbins & co have done a lot of work. A lot of books/journal articles from this era abound in university libraries waiting to be read. You can assess your school/alma mater library for copies and read them. Posting conjectures & fantasies from the head & weblinks such as the one you posted is unfair to Yoruba & the coming generations. They will see these posts and get even more confused and possibly develop identity problems like some AAs who think they are Hebrew, Arab, Native Indians and they can be excused for their confusion but we can not.
Thank you, champ. Where did Oduduwa come from...Do you believe Ijebus are From Northern Sudan Wadai, ..How do Nigerian is Historian come up with facts ? I am willing to learn..Who were the igbos in Ife what language do they speak then. Orunmila master Historian |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by 0balufonlll: 1:29pm On Aug 16, 2018 |
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Re: Yorubas Are Moors by 0balufonlll: 1:53pm On Aug 16, 2018 |
X 2 Likes |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by googi: 1:53pm On Aug 16, 2018 |
Obalufon, I do not agree with everything you posted but I respect your view and connection to Ife. I am not sure if you missed or discount Zo Giwa connection and account. .OPINION By Zo Giwa The Yoruba people know who they are.....
AS one of the Olugbon princes in Ekun Osi of old Oyo empire and a direct descendant of Oduduwa through Oramiyan, and as passed down to us by our ancestors, I think I'm well informed to contribute to the above raging issue. A person who is bent on inheriting another's legacy will say anything for history.
... BTW, you may be right on online writings but discerning mind know how to sort facts from rubbish. Other disciplines including science and law know how to do that. Actually, you are one of those online writers. Scholars now realize that if their work only comes confined to academic publications, most of them will die unread by this generation. So be careful. Olu317, I still maintain that and believe the migration pattern: but back and forth from Ife in what I think our fathers sorjourned beyond our rain forest. |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by Obalufon: 3:32pm On Aug 16, 2018 |
0balufonlll:
1. Osin Ora was an Ife man. He lived on Oke Ora towards Opa side in our town. (Are you familiar with this location?). He was in interactions with Idio group in Ilare (you know Idio or at least Ilare right?) and Ejio (you know Ejio in Moore, correct?). When he came down with other hill residents Ejio met up with him at Moore, they had banters and led him to Idio where the hill settlers settled.
2. The whole Waddai Ijebu origin is nonsense. It began with the imaginative fantasy of Hebrew & Arab connection that keeps sprouting generationally. Ijebu king & an Ijebu Balogun gave statements to colonialists acknowledging their Ife origins. They reflected this by fighting on Ife’s side in all the wars Ife was engaged in. Even the Ekitiparapo war where Ife fought Modakeke. The Ijebu refused to go home until even though Ijebu had no direct or indirect gains in Ife/Modakeke question. I dowbloaded some texts from my Jstor account today & saw an old work on Ijebu, I could share it with you later after they upload to my dropbox & iCloud.
3. They are Ugbo (pronounced like dodo) not Igbo. The autocthonous peoples of Ife are all Ugbo. The 13 quarters of Ife are made up of Ugbo. The difference is some supported the dabaru in the system while some did not support it. For those who supported some stayed while some were very irritated that they left - the Ilaje. Although Ife has been somewhat structured along Ogbon that overlaps across the 13 communities, each of the communities know themselves and their early history confirms they were Ugbo. For example, your ancestor, Obalufon had Ugbo origins.
4. Coming up with facts include using Primary & Secondary sources. Primary sources include oral evidences which include oriki as Olu317 said. Ifa verses, songs, chants; government gazetted documents. For secondary sources you’ll look at books, news papers, journal articles & so on. The key thing here is being trained to sieve legitimate evidences from false data - this is what makes a Historian. yes i know Ugbo not Igbo.. do you believe Olugbo claim that ife are foreigners ... l'm learning from you brother ..I'm ife aborigine..i said it earlier i know my root ..but if 84 yrs old monarch could claim Sudan Origin something definitely wrong somewhere .Orunmila master Historian!!... Ogbon Ana ya to si ti o ni lo mu Orunmila teri ba fun Amusun Omo re'..Knowledge of today supersede that of yesterday ..i respect you brother ....Where did Oduduwa come from ??...Osi Ora ..Oduduwa was from Oke ora....Good i love this ..who is Osi Ora father ? |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by googi: 4:16pm On Aug 16, 2018 |
There are two Obalufon here.
I may be responding to the III.
Sorry for the confusion. |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by Olu317(m): 5:36pm On Aug 16, 2018 |
googi: Obalufon,
I do not agree with everything you posted but I respect your view and connection to Ife. I am not sure if you missed or discount Zo Giwa connection and account.
BTW, you may be right on online writings but discerning mind know how to sort facts from rubbish.
Other disciplines including science and law know how to do that. Actually, you are one of those online writers.
Scholars now realize that if their work only comes confined to academic publications, most of them will die unread by this generation.
So be careful.
Olu317,
I still maintain that and believe the migration pattern: but back and forth from Ife in what I think our fathers sorjourned beyond our rain forest. googi, another one strange word deciphered by the ancient Hebrew interpreters, using the English alphabet. Hebrew : Ooph/ve’oph ye’oph עוּף Meaning : fly,flying Yoruba: onfo,oofo Meaning:fly,flying Can this also be coincindence? There are staggering information that a lot don't know. 1 Like |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by googi: 7:04pm On Aug 16, 2018 |
googi:
When Amad Baba complained bitterly that only Yoruba, Mossi etc that refused to convert to Islam should be enslaved, not them because he was a Muslim.
Where was this?
In Songhai Empire in Timbuktu University where Yoruba were scholars and traders. We can all agree that is far from Ile-Ife.
I have no problem with those that claimed Oduduwa of B.C came from Oke Ira as long as we all agree that Yoruba are also world travelers that came back home. Of all the ethnic groups in Africa, Ile-Ife and Ooni command respect and awe that pread to even those that have never been to Ife.
The III will now ask me for authority on that last statement. When Amad Baba complained bitterly that only Yoruba, Mossi etc that refused to convert to Islam should be enslaved, not them because he was a Muslim. Where was this? In Songhai Empire in Timbuktu University where Yoruba were scholars and traders. We can all agree that is far from Ile-Ife. I have no problem with those that claimed Oduduwa of B.C came from Oke Ira as long as we all agree that Yoruba are also world travelers that came back home. Of all the ethnic groups in Africa, Ile-Ife and Ooni command respect and awe that pread to even those that have never been to Ife. The III will now ask me for authority on that last statement. |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by Moorish: 9:48pm On Aug 16, 2018 |
Didn't know our fathers had significant presence in Timbuktu. That is something to be proud of.. I wonder what secrets those books in Timbuktu might hold for Yoruba and African history in general
The South African government is sponsoring the project to translate the books at the moment |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by kayfra: 11:50am On Aug 17, 2018 |
Still, we are not moors. Though we have traces of admixture, just means we are humans. Every human is mixed 4 Likes |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by googi: 12:55pm On Aug 17, 2018 |
kayfra: Still, we are not moors. Though we have traces of admixture, just means we are humans. Every human is mixed Thank you, that is obvious from organ donor genetic matching where family members do not match but people from different continents and colors match. But prejudice is stronger than scientific facts. Do not forget that black dynasties in Egypt at different periods, history and edifices were obliterated. Even the flat nose of the Sphinx was disfigured. Go figure that out. 1 Like |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by Obalufon: 1:20pm On Aug 17, 2018 |
[quote author=googi post=70340394] |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by Moorish: 2:12pm On Aug 17, 2018 |
kayfra: Still, we are not moors. Though we have traces of admixture, just means we are humans. Every human is mixed Moor is not even our original name it was the romans who called us that Moor was a derivative of Ta Meri, Ta maurians, then it became maurs, that is the original land of Mauritania that we held before the invasion of rome.. however the arabs helped us re-conquer that land, thats when we named it mauritania Anyway Ta meri, Ta seti (Egypt and nubia) were quite possibly our first civilizations before we spread throughout the mother continent Peace |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by Moorish: 2:43pm On Aug 17, 2018 |
googi:
Thank you, that is obvious from organ donor genetic matching where family members do not match but people from different continents and colors match.
But prejudice is stronger than scientific facts. Do not forget that black dynasties in Egypt at different periods, history and edifices were obliterated.
Even the flat nose of the Sphinx was disfigured.
Go figure that out. And brother, about the earlier spat we had I call truce Our histories were suppressed/wiped out so I believe I need you, as well as all my other brothers to reconnect the pieces When odduduwa says he came from the east, it could simply be kush/sudan We all know the destruction of Kemet/egypt is what led to our downfall/enslavement The pale skinned humans had to conquer the entrance to africa (Egypt) before penetrating the mainland So it is very well plausible that our origins are truly eastern (egypt/sudan/kush) |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by kayfra: 3:00pm On Aug 17, 2018 |
Moorish:
Moor is not even our original name
it was the romans who called us that
Moor was a derivative of Ta Meri, Ta maurians, then it became maurs, that is the original land of Mauritania that we held before the invasion of rome.. however the arabs helped us re-conquer that land, thats when we named it mauritania
Anyway Ta meri, Ta seti (Egypt and nubia) were quite possibly our first civilizations before we spread throughout the mother continent
Peace Except you just call all dark-skinned West African and North African Moors. Lmao 1 Like |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by googi: 3:20pm On Aug 17, 2018 |
Moorish:
And brother, about the earlier spat we had
I call truce
Our histories were suppressed/wiped out so I believe I need you, as well as all my other brothers to reconnect the pieces
When odduduwa says he came from the east, it could simply be kush/sudan
We all know the destruction of Kemet/egypt is what led to our downfall/enslavement
The pale skinned humans had to conquer the entrance to africa (Egypt) before penetrating the mainland
So it is very well plausible that our origins are truly eastern (egypt/sudan/kush) No ill feelings. These issues are complicated and even worse but for the painstaking and ardous work by Diop. Yet, we cannot totally dismiss oral history at the same time, we have to wait for scientific evidence to back them up. 2 Likes |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by Moorish: 6:19pm On Aug 17, 2018 |
googi:
No ill feelings. These issues are complicated and even worse but for the painstaking and ardous work by Diop.
Yet, we cannot totally dismiss oral history at the same time, we have to wait for scientific evidence to back them up. I plan to read more cheikh anta diop and ivan van sertima |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by Olu317(m): 6:28pm On Aug 17, 2018 |
Moorish:
And brother, about the earlier spat we had
I call truce
Our histories were suppressed/wiped out so I believe I need you, as well as all my other brothers to reconnect the pieces
When odduduwa says he came from the east, it could simply be kush/sudan
We all know the destruction of Kemet/egypt is what led to our downfall/enslavement
The pale skinned humans had to conquer the entrance to africa (Egypt) before penetrating the mainland
So it is very well plausible that our origins are truly eastern (egypt/sudan/kush) There was no known man in ancient Egypt, be it lower or upper Egypt that bore such name as Odudua. The record of prominent or noble people who lived in Egypt were all written in Aramaic papyri that was found in Egypt. But, the prominent names with close found in Egypt's history and Yoruba's were Yebu,Juda-Jews, Ilù and the land of Onias . etc The question are: 1. Who was the father of Odua and Obatala? 2.Where did all the scientific knowledge of herbology came from? 3. How did many words alien to west Africa are found in Yoruba's lexicon? 4. Where was the land of Orù,that Yoruba ancestors said they onced lived and there were claims that the city was destroyed few times? 5. The deity known as Ra in Egypt is associated with sun. What is the meaning of Okè ‘Òrà' in Yoruba land ? Hopefully,the scholars, the Ph.D holders and Professors on this platform will explain the meaning of Òrà in ILEIFE. |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by Moorish: 6:30pm On Aug 17, 2018 |
kayfra:
Except you just call all dark-skinned West African and North African Moors.
Lmao *called |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by Moorish: 6:33pm On Aug 17, 2018 |
Olu317: There was no known man in ancient Egypt, be it lower or upper Egypt that bore such name as Odudua. The record of prominent or noble people who lived in Egypt were all written in Aramaic papyri that was found in Egypt.
But, the prominent names with close found in Egypt's history and Yoruba's were Yebu,Juda-Jews, Ilù and the land of Onias . etc
The question are:
1. Who was the father of Odua and Obatala?
2.Where did all the scientific knowledge of herbology came from?
3. How did many words alien to west Africa are found in Yoruba's lexicon?
4. Where was the land of Orù,that Yoruba ancestors said they onced lived and there were claims that the city was destroyed few times?
5. The deity known as Ra in Egypt is associated with sun. What is the meaning of Okè ‘Òrà' in Yoruba land ?
Hopefully,the scholars, the Ph.D holders and Professors on this platform will explain the meaning of Òrà in ILEIFE.
Do you have examples of some alien words found in Yoruba language ? |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by Olu317(m): 6:43pm On Aug 17, 2018 |
Moorish:
Do you have examples of some alien words found in Yoruba language ?
Yes, I do and I have release some. As I expect you to know,it is for my research work. Although, you can view some on, Arab origin of Yorubas. So also on Meaning of Adimula's thread. I would have copy and pasted them but I have bot's problem. |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by Moorish: 9:43pm On Aug 17, 2018 |
Olu317: Yes, I do and I have release some. As I expect you to know,it is for my research work. Although, you can view some on, Arab origin of Yorubas. So also on Meaning of Adimula's thread. I would have copy and pasted them but I have bot's problem. That is an interesting idea.. Is there a way we can prove these things? Some living elders might know something u know? |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by Olu317(m): 10:13pm On Aug 17, 2018 |
Moorish:
That is an interesting idea.. Is there a way we can prove these things?
Some living elders might know something u know?
Well, you do have a point. It only support the saying, Òmòdè gbòn àgbà gbòn nì wòn fì dà'lèifé. And if that be the case,it means,all of us are working for the unraveling of the mysterious Yoruba hidden and lost history. Although,to be near accurate with one's finding or research as it may seem,one need a lot of authenticity of one's claim,which ,I find unchallenging because ,my oriki itself acknowledges challenges but triumph always. So,irrespective of challenges,I will triumph. On a last note, the research is to glorify Yoruba as a Race. Cheers bro |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by Moorish: 10:42pm On Aug 17, 2018 |
Olu317: Well, you do have a point. It only support the saying, Òmòdè gbòn àgbà gbòn nì wòn fì dà'lèifé. And if that be the case,it means,all of us are working for the unraveling of the mysterious Yoruba hidden and lost history. Although,to be near accurate with one's finding or research as it may seem,one need a lot of authenticity of one's claim,which ,I find unchallenging because ,my oriki itself acknowledges challenges but triumph always. So,irrespective of challenges,I will triumph.
On a last note, the research is to glorify Yoruba as a Race.
Cheers bro
Oyo Empire c.1600-c.1836: A West African Imperialism in the Era of the Atlantic Slave Trade by Robin Law All my Yoruba brothers, please read this book It is apparently the best work on Oyo Our empire crumbled 50 years before European imperialism into Africa, that is why there is scant information on our empire from literary sources That is why Dahomey, Benin and Asante seem more significant than our empire! They were still standing when the white man came, so he had artifacts to write about, oral accounts etc Robin law seems to have done a good enough work from what I have read so far I just paid $46 for this book, but it could be my most important purchase to date Always wanted to know about my heritage 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by Olu317(m): 11:34pm On Aug 17, 2018 |
Moorish:
Oyo Empire c.1600-c.1836: A West African Imperialism in the Era of the Atlantic Slave Trade by Robin Law
All my Yoruba brothers, please read this book
It is apparently the best work on Oyo
Our empire crumbled 50 years before European imperialism into Africa, that is why there is scant information on our empire from literary sources
That is why Dahomey, Benin and Asante seem more significant than our empire! They were still standing when the white man came, so he had artifacts to write about, oral accounts etc
Robin law seems to have done a good enough work from what I have read so far
I just paid $46 for this book, but it could be my most important purchase to date
Always wanted to know about my heritage
You do have a good heritage man. Oyo reigned for centuries. Although different people wrote about Oyo but the close time Oyo fell was around 1823-1824 through Afonja, after, Capt clapperton visited Oyo in 1822 and left. Anyway,all the best. 1 Like |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by Moorish: 12:06am On Aug 18, 2018 |
Olu317: You do have a good heritage man. Oyo reigned for centuries. Although different people wrote about Oyo but the close time Oyo fell was around 1823-1824 through Afonja, after, Capt clapperton visited Oyo in 1822 and left.
Anyway,all the best.
Thank you |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by Moorish: 12:12am On Aug 18, 2018 |
Olu317: You do have a good heritage man. Oyo reigned for centuries. Although different people wrote about Oyo but the close time Oyo fell was around 1823-1824 through Afonja, after, Capt clapperton visited Oyo in 1822 and left.
Anyway,all the best.
I was thinking about this link Mohammed warred against a highly polytheistic arab population And Yoruba migration theory states we fled the east due to a religious war.. Crazy |
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Re: Yorubas Are Moors by Moorish: 12:37pm On Aug 18, 2018 |
I found something interesting Olu, googi, Obalufon all my brothers read this https://zh-cn.facebook.com/notes/agunbiade-pius/the-yoruba-mythology-and-ancient-history-both-of-mecca-and-berber-land-of-ancien/10151404635628428/Apparently Yoruba existed in Mecca as polytheists.. Lamurudu was on the throne but was killed by mohammed I think during the civil war The war was polytheist vs monotheist We fled to Egypt with king odduduwa, son of our slain king lamurudu, then we fled to Sudan and finally to Yorubaland where we met the ilaje and Benin in the land, they are related to us also apparently Very interesting theory An American friend also confirmed this same theory last night to me Olu, googi and Obalufon , your thoughts please? Also our original name was Sabeans and Nabateans I also called myself a sabean and I never knew why I just felt that was my original nationality since 3 years now Very deep Maybe that explains sungbo erodo for bilikis (queen of Sheba/sabe) |
Re: Yorubas Are Moors by 12salim(m): 4:16am On Aug 19, 2018 |
Moorish:
Moorish history is more glorious than any sub-Saharan African history
So it’s the opposite of a water down
Even oral historical corpus of yorubas assert an eastern origin for yorubas, specifically the region of Mecca
There is a reason for that
Can u explain our possession of a large cavalry ? It isn't. The Adal sultanate was glorious,Ajuuraan dominated the Indian Ocean trade. You claim an empire that's not even of your own people to begin with and depreciate all sub-saharan great empires with your inferiority complex. 3 Likes |