johnw47:






ha ha

Brother,
Why are you laughing at him?
That's a beautiful answer to the question I posed. He answered with scripture...saying that he is a student of the Word.
I asked him the question cause the brother obviously goes deep into the Word. He's trying....which says a whole lot.
Now he and I have disagreed in the past on some points of doctrine (and probably will in the future )....and his "wit" and "humor" (sometimes inappropriately...don't bash me MuttleyLaff) is second to none.
However, those of us who claim Christianity need to discuss issues lovingly and respectfully.

Alright guys, I don'[t even know where to start...so much has been discussed.
But I wanted to look at the concept of what a "giant" is.
Cause perhaps once we get the definition of a giant, maybe we can get a proper understanding of the scripture verse Genesis 6:4.

Genesis 6:4 (KJV)
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.


Look at the chart below.....

Noun 1. an imaginary or mythical being of human form but superhuman size.
Adjective 1. of very great size or force; gigantic.

I tend to think the second definition is more applicable to the chart. But most people have the first definition engraved in their minds.
Anyone that is abnormal in height to an average-sized height is considered "gigantic"....

Sorry folks if I have confused you all...
I'll try to iron this all out and modify if needs be.

I've read that Adam and Eve were between 15-17 feet. Also the people of Noah's time were also large in structure.
Is it possible that humans had gradually shrunk in size due to the increase of sin on the earth? So the original race was abnormally tall in our modern eyes...
However due to certain genes, due to humans mating with humans, people (of the antidelluvian times) still were born with an abnormal height.
I hope I'm not confusing people.

See the pics below of basketball players.
Basketball players are considered abnormal in height in comparison to the average 5'8"-5'9" man.

Mobilia:
Brother,
Why are you laughing at him?
That's a beautiful answer to the question I posed.
He answered with scrioturte...saying that he is a student of the Word.
I asked him the question cause the brother obviously goes deep into the Word.
He's trying....which says a whole lot.
Now he and I have disagreed in the past on some points of doctrine (and probably will in the future)....

I never knew we've crossed swords before Mobilia.
Are you sure, we've disagreed, in the past, with each other on some points?
Are you sure, you havent mistaken my moniker for another?

If this is true, then I am now filled with curiosity,
and so the obvious next to do, is to ask this question:
What are the "some points of doctrine"?

Mobilia:
and his "wit" and "humor" (sometimes inappropriately...don't bash me MuttleyLaff) is second to none.
However, those of us who claim Christianity need to discuss issues lovingly and respectfully.

Mobilia, please, please...
Please, I will crawl on broken glass for this.
Please, I am on my knees, begging you, give me, examples of the "sometimes inappropriately" instances

PS: Mobilia, isn't that Olajuwon aka "The Dream" in the pic above Shaq's

MuttleyLaff:
"¹Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
²Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
³Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
(i.e. Brace yourself like a man, because I have some questions for you, and you must answer them)
⁴Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
⁵Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
⁶Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
⁷When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"
- Job 38:1-7

You are more clued up and smarter than this johnw47
Is it really necessary to spell this out
and/or painstakingly show where/how God took Job to task about creation?
(i.e. where and how God challenged Job to a question and answer session)

God, with a flurry of questions, was bombarding Job
At Job 38:7, the haphazardly questioning, had moved on and away from laying down the foundations of the earth etcetera,
to where was Job, when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy

Yes, johnw47, I said and still maintain that the morning stars singing are constellations
and that the sons of God shouting are the sun and moon

johnw47 do you understand the difference between invented truth and discovered truth?
Dont worry, if you dont, as I'll a tad bit, explain below next

You learned a manufactured truth because you havent yourself discovered the truth about Job 38:7

You're creating an invented tautology, if you equate "morning stars" & "the son of Gods" to mean the same thing (i.e. angelic beings)

johnw47, what purpose does this writing serve, written this way:
"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy"

as opposed to having it written like this other way:
"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy"

It is just so incongruous to be true that "morning stars" & "the son of Gods" in Job 38:7 are angelic celestial beings
but hey what's my own, its kuku not up to me, to make you believe.

I am just an angel, so dont shoot me, the messenger, just because you've missed the message.

Keep up with the laughs,
but just keep in the back of your mind, I'll have the last laugh
and you know what that means.
Means, I'll laugh the best

So I guess the devil is a celestial body since he gathered with the sons of God at the beginning of Job. LoLz!

MuttleyLaff:


Mo/bilia, please, please...
Please, I will crawl on broken glass for this.
Please, I am on my knees, begging you, give me, examples of the "sometimes inappropriately" instances

Lol....ok...will get some.

MuttleyLaff:

I never knew we've crossed swords before Mo/bilia.


PS: Mo/bilia, isn't that Olajuwon aka "The Dream" in the pic above Shaq's

Yes...Think back to the "three musketeers" (Myself and 2 other brothers on the Sabbath issue)..

Yes that is him! I decided to use one of Nigeria's finest.....to make an illustration...which I am gonna hopefully be able to further explain.

Mobilia:
Yes...I'm the former MzLady39/Ngo40.....remember?
Think back to the "three musketeers"
(Myself and 2 other brothers on the Sabbath issue)..

Yes that is him! I decided to use one of Nigeria's finest.....to make an illustration...
which I am gonna hopefully be able to further explain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEmY0Edd39A
For the listening pleasure of my bud, the esteemed budaatum & loveable sister Mobilia
budaatum would remember the "♬ Ere kini, ẹ nse, labẹ igi...♪♫" intro beat

Aw no, its my long lost sister, my sister from another mother.
It's all water under the bridge now sister

I think I'll have to start behaving, with you being around and/or on the block now

Be prepared to be slated by those not ready for the truth
I've got your back anyway.
Any that mess with you, messes with me and will have me, with gloves off, to answer to.

Y'all want this party started right?
Y’all want this party started quickly right?
Set it off I suggest y'all
Mobilia let's get this party started...
Yeah! Yeah! Feels like something's about to jump off in here!

MuttleyLaff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEmY0Edd39A
For the listening pleasure of my bud, the esteemed budaatum & loveable sister Mobilia
"♬ Ere kini, ẹ nse, labẹ igi...♪♫"

Aw no, its my long lost sister, my sister from another mother.
It's all water under the bridge now sister

I think I'll have to start behaving, with you being around and/or on the block now

Be prepared to be slated by those not ready for the truth
I've got your back anyway.
Any that mess with you, messes with me and will have me, with gloves off, to answer to.

Y'all want this party started right?
Y’all want this party started quickly right?
Set it off I suggest y'all
Mo/bilia let's get this party started...
Yeah! Yeah! Feels like something's about to jump off in here!

Lol....what a nice re-welcome my brother....
Thanks for the support too....
I've been through it all since being on this website ....ventured off into other NL rooms... had a blast in some...and not so much so in others.
But I have come full circle back to where I originally started from on NL...the Religion section.
I'll still venture "out" sometimes..but stay in here mainly.
My skin has been re-thickened now for this almost 2 years of membership...
Don't think anything can shake me at this point....

Mobilia:
Lol....what a nice re-welcome my brother....
Thanks for the support too....
I've been through it all since being on this website ....ventured off into other NL rooms... had a blast in some...and not so much so in others.
But I have come full circle back to where I originally started from on NL...the Religion section.
I'll still venture "out" sometimes..but stay in here mainly.
My skin has been re-thickened now for this almost 2 years of membership...
Don't think anything can shake me at this point....

Back in the day, I used to do that, I mean venturing out
The bible said go into the world, not the world come to you.
So I deliberately used to pop my head into the Sexuality and Romance sections

Soon enough, I come across monikers I've see in those sections, straying into and for awhile hanging about in the Religion section
They wouldnt ordinarily pop in to the Religion section by themselves
but must have clicked on my comments and this consequently must have led them to the Religion section

I think I need to be of my best behaviour now, with you on board
Nice having you back and around.

MuttleyLaff:
Back in the day, I used to do that, I mean venturing out
The bible said go into the world, not the world come to you.
So I deliberately used to pop my head into the Sexuality and Romance sections

Soon enough, I come across monikers I've see in those sections, straying into and for awhile hanging about in the Religion section
They wouldnt ordinarily pop in to the Religion section by themselves
but must have clicked on my comments and this consequently must have led them to the Religion section

I think I need to be of my best behaviour now, with you on board
Nice having you back and around.

Thanks my brother....now you see why I was so shocked and humbled by your encouragement.
Oh many of my posts (throughout NL) show that I'm still a "work in progress" myself...
I lost my "religion" sometimes....
But God is a wonderful God who forgives when we humble ourselves to Him and apologize to folks.

[quote author=MuttleyLaff post=71204365]If you couldnt handle and get to grips with what sons of God really are in Job 38:7
what makes you think you'll take in and stomach the explaining of the true meaning of the sons of God in Job 1:6 and Job 2:1.

Why don't you try me..

The really interesting thing is that, the use of the expression, sons of God, in Genesis 6:2
came full circle with the use and it's earlier mention, in Job 1:6 & Job 2:1.

This still can't rule out the fact that they are angels. The early Christians and Patriarchs believed taught this. It is also clearly understood.

Maamin:
Why don't you try me...

Errr, Maamin.
Errr, I dont know, whether, I should Maamin

Maamin:
This still can't rule out the fact that they are angels.

It big time, does Maamin.
It does big time rule out, that "the sons of God" in Job 1:6 & Job 2:1, just as with Job 38:7, does not mean angelic celestial beings

Maamin:
The early Christians and Patriarchs believed taught this.
It is also clearly understood.

Please share how, where, when and most importantly, what the early believers and Patriarchs believed and taught.

What you learned and what was clearly understood, is an invented/manufactured truth Maamin.

LordReed:
So I guess the devil is a celestial body since he gathered with the sons of God at the beginning of Job. LoLz!

I am impressed LordReed.
Would you know that you're correct in that, the devil, is a celestial being?

Of course, the devil is a celestial being.
The devil, as a matter of fact, has a free pass, and enters everywhere on earth with it, to always poke nose into other people's affairs & business'

This why, the devil in Job 2:1 and Job 3:6, was able to easily gather with the sons of God at the beginning of Job (i.e. Job 2:1 and Job 3:6)

The devil, doesnt to anywhere on earth, really need a green light before popping head in or around.

The devil has already been here and still is here on this thread, reading with keen interest and a rapt smile.

[quote author=MuttleyLaff post=71162476]Its bible talk, not my words.
The bible has never had angels, whether fallen or not, called sons of God.
That's an undeniable fact

Do you know what "jagidijagan wuruwuru" to the answer means?
Havent finished with you about Job 38:7, yet you're bringing in Job 1:6 and Job 2:1,
Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 are your other two out of the three champion verses, where you've misunderstood what "sons of God" means in them

Do you remember me telling you, that Job 38:7 verse, happens to be one out of your three stars and champion verses, you were waving in Mobilia's face?

I also say let's deal with the Job 38:7 verse first, before going on to the other two (i.e. Job 1:6 and Job 2:1)
You earlier said: "I'm also learning myself."
Well guess what. By the time, we are done, do you know what apart from learning, you'll be getting?
It’s called getting an education

Are you now saying that Satan who also followed the sons of God to present himself is a Sun or Moon?

Where and when were they called sons of God right before they fell?
Dont even try to quote here Job 1:6, Job 2:1 and/or Job 38:7 because you'll be making a grave mistake if you do

You know pretty well they were called the sons of God before they fell. It is so appalling that you choose to call the Sun and moon sons of God, but deny angels that are spirit beings and God's ministers who are closed to him and see him.

When that scripture was revealed, was the "g" in God too, not in upper case or lower case, was the word simply just "god"?

You capital S in sons of God, writing it as Sons of God, instead of sons of God
Why, what are you playing at writing it that way?
What not write God, with lower or small letter case g?

God or god, son or Son, Teacher or teacher, does it reduce the meaning behind the verbs?

""For to which of the angels did He ever say:
"You are my Son; today I have begotten You"?
And again: "I will be to Him for a Father, and He will be to Me for a Son"?""
- Hebrews 1:5

Good that from Hebrews 1:5a, you accept that God never beget angels at any time
Now look at Hebrews 1:5b again, to see that God never had angels at any time be his son and/or Son

Yes God only beget Jesus the Christ. So according to you God can not beget the angels as his Son but you will rather claim he beget Sun and Moon right?

Laugh as best as you can
Meanwhile just remember that he who laughs last, laughs the best

It's kind of funny. It is just funny and unbelievable.

"And God made two great lights;
the greater light to rule the day,
and the lesser light to rule the night:
he made the stars also"
- Genesis 1:16

You behaving like a drowning man desperately clutching at whatever reed/straw is in sight, he can grab on, to stay afloat

I earlier reminded you that Context is King

Job 38:7, is a good 30-plus chapters faraway from Job 1:6 and Job 2:1

The meaning of sons of God in Job 1:6 and Job 2:1, isnt similar to the meaning of sons of God in Job 38:7

Job 38:7 is about God taking Job to task,
asking him about what he knows about creation and where was he during creation
and particularly when the sun, moon and the constellation in the Genesis 1:16 account were present

Believers (i.e. sons of God) and the Son of God (i.e. Jesus Christ) are
but unfortunately not and never were angels.
Sorry.

And what did God told Job after that? That the sons of God that were rejoicing and singing were sun, moon and stars?

This you explanation is weak and unscriptural. All you context are based on nothing but your own personal interpretation.

The first bold is what again? You mean the phrase "sons of God" carries different meanings that you wish to assign to it but not angels right?

What dead on arrival point were you aiming to make with this remark?

My point is that you are very very far away from what the bible teaches in those verses.

How do you explain Satan who came together with the sons of God to resent himself as well? How do you explain the Spirits in prison? How do you explain angels that sinned that the bible talked about?

Capital NO!

MuttleyLaff:
Errr, Maamin.
Errr, I dont know, whether, I should Maamin

It big time, does Maamin.
It does big time rule out, that "the sons of God" in Job 1:6 & Job 2:1, just as with Job 38:7, does not mean angelic celestial beings

Please share how, where, when and most importantly, what the early believers and Patriarchs believed and taught.

What you learned and what was clearly understood, is an invented/manufactured truth Maamin.

It is only you reading your own meaning to those verses, you have not really refuted anything here. None of your explanations are coherent.

MuttleyLaff:
I am impressed LordReed.
Would you know that you're correct in that, the devil, is a celestial being?

Of course, the devil is a celestial being.
The devil, as a matter of fact, has a free pass, and enters everywhere on earth with it, to always poke nose into other people's affairs & business'

This why, the devil in Job 2:1 and Job 3:6, was able to easily gather with the sons of God at the beginning of Job (i.e. Job 2:1 and Job 3:6)

The devil, doesnt to anywhere on earth, really need a green light before popping head in or around.

The devil has already been here and still is here on this thread, reading with keen interest and a rapt smile.

You like accusing me of twisting your words, yet here you are so blatantly twisting mine. I wrote celestial body not celestial being.

The sun and moon are celestial bodies so if the sun and moon are the sons of God then the sons of God are celestial bodies. If the sons of God gather then its a gathering of celestial bodies implying that Satan is a celestial body. LMFAO!

LordReed:
You like accusing me of twisting your words, yet here you are so blatantly twisting mine.
I wrote celestial body not celestial being.

Is there a difference between celestial body and celestial being?
I didnt think so

LordReed:
The sun and moon are celestial bodies
so if the sun and moon are the sons of God then the sons of God are celestial bodies.
If the sons of God gather then its a gathering of celestial bodies implying that Satan is a celestial body. LMFAO!

I have never read nor come across a discombobulated comment such as this before
This is what happens, when someone tries too hard to sound half coherent

MuttleyLaff:
Is there a difference between celestial body and celestial being?
I didnt think so

I have never read nor come across a discombobulated comment such as this before
This is what happens, when someone tries too hard to sound half coherent

You are so fucking dishonest. You are a liar if you say you don't know the difference in meaning between celestial body and celestial being.

And being caught out in fucking incoherence you project your silliness on to me. You said the sun and moon are the sons of God so how is the devil joining the congregation of the sun and moon aka sons of God and he is not a sun or moon? What a dishonest person you've turned out to be. Not that it's much of a surprise, having to do silly mental gymnastics will do that to a person.

[quote author=MuttleyLaff post=71260058]Is there a difference between celestial body and celestial being?
I didnt think so

Apart from that your position and understanding of this controversial topic is wrong. One thing I noticed about you is that you don't like to admit that you are wrong.

LordReed:
You are so fucking dishonest.
You are a liar if you say you don't know the difference in meaning between celestial body and celestial being.

Is the devil a celestial being or not?

LordReed:
And being caught out in fucking incoherence you project your silliness on to me.
You said the sun and moon are the sons of God

Can you kindly and correctly add that, I said, metaphorically, the sons of God, in Job 38:7 are the sun and moon.

LordReed:
so how is the devil joining the congregation of the sun and moon aka sons of God
and he is not a sun or moon?
What a dishonest person you've turned out to be.
Not that it's much of a surprise, having to do silly mental gymnastics will do that to a person.

Please, calm down and take a gulp of slow deep breaths in and then slowly exhale out

You're mixing Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 together with Job 38:7

The sons of God, in Genesis 6:4, Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 means something entirely different to the sons of God in Job 38:7
and besides, the devil never followed or gathered with anyone or anything in Job 38:7

Job 38:7, is a good 30-plus chapters faraway from Job 1:6 and Job 2:1

The meaning of the sons of God in Job 1:6 and Job 2:1, isnt similar to the meaning of the sons of God in Job 38:7

Job 38:7 is about God taking Job to task,
asking him about what he knows about creation and where was he during creation
and particularly when the sun, moon and the constellation in the Genesis 1:16 account were present

I know I've earlier reminded Maamin, that Context is King, I now say the same to you that learn that: Context is King

Maamin:
Apart from that your position and understanding of this controversial topic is wrong.
One thing I noticed about you is that you don't like to admit that you are wrong.

Admit that I am wrong about what?

I would ask you the same question I asked your new found ally:
Is the devil a celestial being or not a celestial being?

Are you familiar of the crab mentality?
You must do, you certainly do,
otherwise you wouldnt have taken sides and pull such a publicity stunt like this.

[quote author=MuttleyLaff post=71261445]


Admit that I am wrong about what?

I would ask you the same question I asked your new found ally:
Is the devil a celestial being or not a celestial being?

Are you familiar of the crab mentality?
You must do, you certainly do,
otherwise you wouldnt have taken sides and pull such a publicity stunt like this.

On like you, I will rather find my ally in the true teaching of the scripture.

You said no difference between celestial being and celestial body. So I rolled out the definition of celestial body for you to see.

MuttleyLaff:
Is there a difference between celestial body and celestial being?
I didnt think so

Celestial being is completely different from celestial body.

Mobilia:
Alright guys, I don'[t even know where to start...so much has been discussed.
But I wanted to look at the concept of what a "giant" is.
Cause perhaps once we get the definition of a giant, maybe we can get a proper understanding of the scripture verse Genesis 6:4.

Genesis 6:4 (KJV)
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.


Look at the chart below.....

Noun 1. an imaginary or mythical being of human form but superhuman size.
Adjective 1. of very great size or force; gigantic.

I tend to think the second definition is more applicable to the chart. But most people have the first definition engraved in their minds.
Anyone that is abnormal in height to an average-sized height is considered "gigantic"....

Sorry folks if I have confused you all...
I'll try to iron this all out and modify if needs be.

The giants that were mentioned in the scripture are not 6feet giants but really tall and big in status about 12- 15 feet tall humans.

MuttleyLaff:
Is the devil a celestial being or not?

Can you kindly and correctly add that, I said, metaphorically, the sons of God, in Job 38:7 are the sun and moon.

Please, calm down and take a gulp of slow deep breaths in and then slowly exhale out

You're mixing Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 together with Job 38:7

The sons of God, in Genesis 6:4, Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 means something entirely different to the sons of God in Job 38:7
and besides, the devil never followed or gathered with anyone or anything in Job 38:7

Job 38:7, is a good 30-plus chapters faraway from Job 1:6 and Job 2:1

The meaning of the sons of God in Job 1:6 and Job 2:1, isnt similar to the meaning of the sons of God in Job 38:7

Job 38:7 is about God taking Job to task,
asking him about what he knows about creation and where was he during creation
and particularly when the sun, moon and the constellation in the Genesis 1:16 account were present

I know I've earlier reminded Maamin, that Context is King, I now say the same to you that learn that: Context is King

Admit that I am wrong about what?

I would ask you the same question I asked your new found ally:
Is the devil a celestial being or not a celestial being?

Are you familiar of the crab mentality?
You must do, you certainly do,
otherwise you wouldnt have taken sides and pull such a publicity stunt like this.

Gosh you are so full of shit, I can't even deal.

Maamin:
On like you, I will rather find my ally in the true teaching of the scripture.

You're making caustic comments one after the other, so I've pretended not to read this one

Maamin:
You said no difference between celestial being and celestial body.
So I rolled out the definition of celestial body for you to see.

You're so incorrigible
How many times, do I have to remind you about the "Context is King" useful rule of thumb?

Do you know why I asked, if there's difference between celestial being and celestial body?
Am I wrong in referring to the devil as a celestial being instead of a celestial body?
Do you know why I consciously switched from using celestial body for the devil to using the phrase celestial being?

You are making yourself be a tool in the devil's workshop

Maamin:
Celestial being is completely different from celestial body.

OK, Maamin, what to you, is the devil?
Is the devil a celestial being or a celestial body?
Or depending on preference, can the devil, be either a celestial being or a celestial body?

Maamin:


The giants that were mentioned in the scripture are not 6feet giants but really tall and big in status about 12- 15 feet tall humans.

Right. I'm saying that the 12-15 feet tall humans were normal during that time period. I was saying that there were some people who may have been even taller than that and were therefore termed "giants".
In today's society, the average height for a man is around 5'8-5'9. Anyone 6'0 or taller is considered "tall", but then basketball player's heights (which averages between 6'5-6'7) are considered giant in stature.
We know that humans (mated with humans) and reproduced humans (some who have an extraordinary height). The same process that we humans use today (sexual activity) is the same process the antideluvians used back then. There was nothing supernatural about the process....meaning "angels" didn't mate with humans to produce a human of "giant" stature.
I think that humans continued to decrease in size throughout the generations as sin became more rampant.

LordReed:
Gosh you are so full of shit, I can't even deal.

No surprises.
As you were punching above your weight
Everything was bound to go over your head, so I am glad you wisely threw in the towel
Good riddance to bad rubbish
Now where is the air freshner when you need one?

MuttleyLaff,
Just curious, but is the term "nephilim" ever used in the scriptures?

Mobilia:
MuttleyLaff,
Just curious, but is the term "nephilim" ever used in the scriptures?

Yeah, in black and white
Before the flood, after the flood and at when the Israelite spies, on recce, went to Canaan

MuttleyLaff:
Yeah, in black and white
Before the flood, after the flood and at when the Israelite spies went to Canaan

Ok...maybe I overlooked the actual word. Cause I think folks get caught up on the term "fallen ones"....
I thought it was a replacement for the word "giant".
I'm gonna look more into it.

MuttleyLaff:
No surprises.
As you were punching above your weight
Everything was bound to go over your head, so I am glad you wisely threw in the towel
Good riddance to bad rubbish
Now where is the air freshner when you need one?

LoL! You dishonest turd. Spray the air fresher for your stinky arse. LMFAO!

Mobilia:
Ok...maybe I overlooked the actual word.
Cause I think folks get caught up on the term "fallen ones"....
I thought it was a replacement for the word "giant".
I'm gonna look more into it.

The word "nephilim" is used interchangeably with the word giants

LordReed:
LoL! You dishonest turd.
Spray the air fresher for your stinky arse. LMFAO!

[img]https://s2/images/Screenshot-2018-9-17-celestial---Dictionary-Definition.png[/img]
cc Maamin
Who is not just a dishonest turd but also is, for this matter, a shameless ignorant one, now?
Who were you suggesting has a stinking arse erh?

0bakuso was hot on your heels, all over you like a rash
and I am now beginning to understand why on earth MrPresidente called you gaybriel