Kobojunkie:
How can a that which clearly states that there will be 4 Kingdoms not conflict with that which instead says there will be 5 instead? Can 4 = 5? .

So far, you now attest to the fact that Daniel mentioned only 4 Kingdoms in all 3 of his visions — Daniel 2, 7, and 8 —which we have examined so far. So why continue to insist that your private interpretation of what you claim John said is the same as that which is of Daniel?

Let's not derail this thread at all any further. Create a thread of your own regarding what John supposedly said and we can examine that and maybe see where your claim of a world power predating Babylon was supposedly mentioned by the person of John.

Daniel 2:44

Aemmyjah:
Daniel 2:44

I don't understand this response of yours.

Kobojunkie:
Storyland!

Is that not the same Cyrus God chose to use in the rebuilding of His Temple and repatriation of the Jews back to Judah?

Dan 10:13:
"But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, see, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia."

How did this happen and what is the name of the war?

TenQ:
Dan 10:13:
"But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, see, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia."

How did this happen and what is the name of the war?

Where you take see Gabriel, war in that verse you posted there?

Everything you said below is on point and we have established all that here. I meant the last part of that verse.

Aemmyjah:



An angel, sent by God to reassure the prophet, told him why his arrival had been delayed. He said: “The prince of the royal realm of Persia was standing in opposition to me for twenty-one days.”​—Daniel 10:2, 13.
Who was this ‘prince of Persia’? The angel was obviously not referring to Persian King Cyrus, who at that time looked with favor upon Daniel and his people. Moreover, how could a mere human king resist a spirit creature for three weeks when it took one angel only one night to destroy 185,000 mighty warriors? This hostile ‘prince of Persia’ could only be an agent of the Devil, that is, a demon who was given control over the realm of the Persian Empire. Later in the
account, God’s angel stated that he would once again have to fight against “the prince of Persia” and another demon prince, “the prince of Greece.”​

King James Version
Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Here it is. Look at the italicized portion.

Daniel 10: 13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.

What do you think?

Kobojunkie:
Where you take see Gabriel, war in that verse you posted there?

Dan 9:3:
"And I set my face to the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes:"



Dan 9:21:
"Yes, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation."

Even if the personality is not Gabriel, he is a celestial being isn't it?


You didn't know that this is a celestial Being joined with Micheal and they couldn't subdue a mere mortal Cyrus! ?

A yam not understanding!

TenQ:
■ Dan 9:3:
"And I set my face to the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes:"

Dan 9:21:
"Yes, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation."

Even if the personality is not Gabriel, he is a celestial being isn't it? You didn't know that this is a celestial Being joined with Micheal and they couldn't subdue a mere mortal Cyrus! ? A yam not understanding!

First thing first, you quoted earlier from chapter 10 claiming the shiny man from that vision was Gabriel. Why?

Second, who or what decides whether a character in or mentioned in a vision is of celestial origin or not? You keep insisting that because you believe the shiny man in chapter 10 was of celestial origin, then prince of Persia, King of Persia, and the prince of Greece must equally be of celestial origin. On what grounds do you make this conclusion?

Is Daniel whom the shiny man is written to have touched equally a celestial being? Cyrus was mentioned by God and he was a King of Persia, so why is he excluded from the celestial queue?

Kobojunkie:
First thing first, you quoted earlier from chapter 10 claiming the shiny man from that vision was Gabriel. Why?

Second, who or what decides whether a character in or mentioned in a vision is of celestial origin or not? You keep insisting that because you believe the shiny man in chapter 10 was of celestial origin, then prince of Persia, King of Persia, and the prince of Greece must equally be of celestial origin. On what grounds do you make this conclusion?

Is Daniel whom the shiny man is written to have touched equally a celestial being? Cyrus was mentioned by God and he was a King of Persia, so why is he excluded from the celestial queue?

The spirit of argument will not leave you alone even over things that are obvious.

1. Is it true that Michael being referred to in Daniel is an Angel?
2. Is it untrue that the One who the Prince of Persia delayed is not a human being?

Even if the personality in Question is not Gabriel, he is most certainly another high ranking Angel.

Please Explain how two Angels cannot defeat Cyrus and his army in 21 days?

TenQ:
The spirit of argument will not leave you alone even over things that are obvious.
1. Is it true that Michael being referred to in Daniel is an Angel?
2. Is it untrue that the One who the Prince of Persia delayed is not a human being?
■ Even if the personality in Question is not Gabriel, he is most certainly another high ranking Angel.
■ Please Explain how two Angels cannot defeat Cyrus and his army in 21 days?

1. Where is your evidence that Michael is an angel?

2. The one who touched Daniel is the same one supposedly delayed by the prince of Persia and was stuck with the king of Persia. So, does this equally mean Daniel was not human?

3. If you wish to believe that, good for you,my interest instead lies with understanding the identities of those mentioned by the Shiny man in the vision and so far, nothing to prove they aren't all humans or at least representations of them.

4. Beat Cyrus at what exactly? And was that for 21 literal solar days?

Kobojunkie:
1. Where is your evidence that Michael is an angel?

2. The one who touched Daniel is the same one supposedly delayed by the prince of Persia and was stuck with the king of Persia. So, does this equally mean Daniel was not human?

3. If you wish to believe that, good for you,my interest instead lies with understanding the identities of those mentioned by the Shiny man in the vision and so far, nothing to prove they aren't all humans or at least representations of them.

4. Beat Cyrus at what exactly? And was that for 21 literal solar days?

Michael is not only an angel madam, he is an arch angel

Jud 1:9:
"Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke you."

Rev 12:7:
"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,"

Every other insinuation of yours breakdown once you comprehend this.



The identity of Michael is not hidden in the scripture

Dan 12:1:
"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which stands for the children of your people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time your people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."


Rev 12:7-8:
"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."

TenQ:
■ Michael is not only an angel madam, he is an arch angel Jud 1:9: [i]Rev 12:7:
■ The identity of Michael is not hidden in the scripture. Every other insinuation of yours breakdown once you comprehend this.
[i]Dan 12:1:
"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which stands for the children of your people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time your people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."
Rev 12:7-8:
"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."

1. Ok. So Michael is not an angel but an archangel. And does this mean that every mention of the name Micheal in Scripture is of this archangel also called Michael in the Books of Jude and Revelations?
By the way, to comprehend what is written it is best to allow Scripture to reveal the truth intended by the author to you. The moment you resort to reading your previously held delusions between the lines of what is written, you violate Scripture and spew nothing but lies.

2. According to Daniel, the identity of the Micheal character is as prince of his people — Israel. So, how did you conclude that this particular prince is an archangel? Are all princes archangels? There are several other princes named Michael equally mentioned in Scripture. I believe some of them were princes too. Were they equally archangels?

And there are the many questions I previously asked that you have yet to answer...

3. The one who touched Daniel is the same supposedly delayed by the prince of Persia and was stuck with the king of Persia. So, does this equally mean Daniel was not human?

4. If you wish to believe that, good for you, my interest instead lies with understanding the identities of those mentioned by the Shiny man in the vision and so far, nothing to prove they aren't all humans or at least representations of them.

5. Beat Cyrus at what exactly? And was that for 21 literal solar days?

Kobojunkie:
1. Ok. So Michael is not an angel but an archangel. And does this mean that every mention of the name Micheal in Scripture is of this archangel also called Michael in the Books of Jude and Revelations?
By the way, to comprehend what is written it is best to allow Scripture to reveal the truth intended by the author to you. The moment you resort to reading your previously held delusions between the lines of what is written, you violate Scripture and spew nothing but lies.

2. According to Daniel, the identity of the Micheal character is as prince of his people — Israel. So, how did you conclude that this particular prince is an archangel? Are all princes archangels? There are several other princes named Michael equally mentioned in Scripture. I believe some of them were princes too. Were they equally archangels?

And there are the many questions I previously asked that you have yet to answer...

3. The one who touched Daniel is the same supposedly delayed by the prince of Persia and was stuck with the king of Persia. So, does this equally mean Daniel was not human?

4. If you wish to believe that, good for you, my interest instead lies with understanding the identities of those mentioned by the Shiny man in the vision and so far, nothing to prove they aren't all humans or at least representations of them.

5. Beat Cyrus at what exactly? And was that for 21 literal solar days?

A few other People in. the scripture also bear the name Michael.

However this one called the prince of Isreal was and is to be the future and history of Israel
1. He was Alive during the time of Daniel
Dan 10:21:
"But I will show you that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holds with me in these things, but Michael your prince."

2. He is also to be during the end time tribulation
Dan 12:1:
"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which stands for the children of your people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time your people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."




Is their any human with a lifespan like that of Micheal the price of Israel?



The Michael in Daniel is an Arch Angel!

TenQ:
■ A few other people in. the scripture also bear the name Michael. However, this one called the prince of Isreal was and is to be the future and history of Israel
1. He was Alive during the time of Daniel
Dan 10:21: "But I will show you that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holds with me in these things, but Michael your prince."
2. He is also to be during the end time tribulation
Dan 12:1: "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which stands for the children of your people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time your people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."
■ Is their any human with a lifespan like that of Micheal the price of Israel? The Michael in Daniel is an Arch Angel!

Interesting claims you make here!

We know from the vision given to Daniel by the Shiny man that at the time presented in the vision which was given to Daniel, this Michael character was. But to suggest that based on that one line in Daniel 12, Micheal also had to be alive at the end of days, just over 550 years after Daniel received the vision, is a bit of a stretch on your part, given what is stated in that verse.

1. “Daniel, at that time the great prince Michael will stand up. Michael is in charge of your people. There will be a time of much trouble, the worst time since nations have been on earth. But Daniel, at that time every one of your people whose name is found written in the Book of Life will be saved. - Daniel 12 vs 1

2. This brings me back to what I had been asking all along. The Shiny Man, in the vision, qualified the prince of Persia, the king of Persia, and maybe even the prince of Greece as evil angels.

20 So then he said, “Daniel, do you know why I have come to you? Soon I must go back to fight against the prince of Persia. When I go, the prince of Greece will come.
21 But Daniel, before I go, I must first tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. No one stands with me against those evil angels except Michael, the prince over your people. - Daniel 10 20 - 21

Since you claim Micheal in Daniel had to be an archangel, then would it not equally follow that the King of Persia(Cyrus was King of Persia at the time in question), the prince of Persia, and the prince of Greece all equally mentioned in the vision were also archangels? And let's not exclude Daniel, another person who was mentioned in the vision as well.

Kobojunkie:
Second, who or what decides whether a character in or mentioned in a vision is of celestial origin or not? You keep insisting that because you believe the shiny man in Chapter 10 was of celestial origin, then the prince of Persia, King of Persia, and the prince of Greece must equally be of celestial origin. On what grounds do you make this conclusion?

Is Daniel whom the shiny man is written to have touched equally a celestial being? Cyrus was mentioned by God and he was a King of Persia, so why is he excluded from the celestial queue?

Recall, we are dealing here with messages revealed in vision format and they are not meant to be given LITERAL interpretations.

Kobojunkie:
Interesting claims you make here!

We know from the vision given to Daniel by the Shiny man that at the time presented in the vision which was given to Daniel, this Michael character was. But to suggest that based on that one line in Daniel 12, Micheal also had to be alive at the end of days, just over 550 years after Daniel received the vision, is a bit of a stretch on your part, given what is stated in that verse.

2. This brings me back to what I had been asking all along. The Shiny Man, in the vision, qualified the prince of Persia, the king of Persia, and maybe even the prince of Greece as evil angels.

Since you claim Micheal in Daniel had to be an archangel, then would it not equally follow that the King of Persia(Cyrus was King of Persia at the time in question), the prince of Persia, and the prince of Greece all equally mentioned in the vision were also archangels? And let's not exclude Daniel, another person who was mentioned in the vision as well.
Recall, we are dealing here with messages revealed in vision format and they are not meant to be given LITERAL interpretations.

Focus on Micheal please... +leave your shining man out of the equation for now

1. Is the Micheal in Dan 10:21 different from Michael in Dan 12:1?

2. Is Dan 12:1 already fulfilled or it is in the future time? If it has been fulfilled, when and how?

The Truth will hit you if only you can be truthful in your response to these two questions

TenQ:
■ Focus on Micheal please... +leave your shining man out of the equation for now. Is the Micheal in Dan 10:21 different from Michael in Dan 12:1?
2. Is Dan 12:1 already fulfilled or it is in the future time? If it has been fulfilled, when and how?
■ The Truth will hit you if only you can be truthful in your response to these two questions

1. We know from the vision given to Daniel by the Shiny man that at the time presented in the vision which was given to Daniel, this Michael character was. But to suggest that based on that one line in Daniel 12, Micheal also had to be alive at the end of days, just over 550 years after Daniel received the vision, is a bit of a stretch on your part, given what is stated in that verse.

1. “Daniel, at that time the great prince Michael will stand up. Michael is in charge of your people. There will be a time of much trouble, the worst time since nations have been on earth. But Daniel, at that time every one of your people whose name is found written in the Book of Life will be saved. - Daniel 12 vs 1

The same Shiny man spoke the vision in Daniel 10, 11, and 12. So it is not a leap to suggest He spoke of the same Daniel.

2. What aspect of what Daniel saw do you believe was not fulfilled at the end of days which happened less than 600 years after Daniel was given the visions?

3. You say that but the truth I keep seeing in what is clearly stated does not seem to be what you continue to allude to, how come?

elated177:
Everything you said below is on point and we have established all that here. I meant the last part of that verse.



Here it is. Look at the italicized portion.

Daniel 10: 13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.

What do you think?

Prince of Persia was a demon
Shikena

You know that demons were originally good angels before they rebelled
Angels are not all the same
They have different ranks like the Seraph, Cherubs, messengers
It could be that the prince of Persia was once a Seraph before he rebelled and the one sent to Daniel was an ordinary messenger angel. The Bible does not say

Prince of Persia was a wicked spirit demon
A human king cannot detain an angel
Cyrus was even-fair minded and allowed the Jews restore pure worship. Would he detain an angel?

Aemmyjah:
Prince of Persia was a demon Shikena You know that demons were originally good angels before they rebelled Angels are not all the same They have different ranks like the Seraph, Cherubs, messengers It could be that the prince of Persia was once a Seraph before he rebelled and the one sent to Daniel was an ordinary messenger angel. The Bible does not say
Prince of Persia was a wicked spirit demon A human king cannot detain an angel Cyrus was even-fair minded and allowed the Jews restore pure worship. Would he detain an angel?

You claim the Prince of Persia was a demon, but why exclude The King of Persia and the Prince of Greece who were also mentioned?

10 Then a hand touched me. When that happened, I got on my hands and knees. I was so afraid that I was shaking.
11 The man in the vision said to me, “Daniel, God loves you very much. Think very carefully about the words I will speak to you. Stand up; I have been sent to you.” And when he said this, I stood up. I was still shaking because I was afraid.
12 Then the man in the vision started talking again. He said, “Daniel, do not be afraid. From the very first day, you decided to get wisdom and to be humble in front of God, he has been listening to your prayers. I came to you because you have been praying.
13 But the prince of Persia has been fighting against me for 21 days. Then Michael, one of the most important princes, came to help me because I was stuck there with the king of Persia.
14 Now I have come to you, Daniel, to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future. The vision is about a time in the future.”
15 While the man was talking to me, I bowed low with my face toward the ground. I could not speak.
16 Then the one who looked like a man touched my lips. I opened my mouth and started to speak. I said to the one standing in front of me, “Sir, I am upset and afraid because of what I saw in the vision. I feel helpless.
17 Sir, I am Daniel your servant. How can I talk with you? My strength is gone and it is hard for me to breathe.”
18 The one who looked like a man touched me again. When he touched me, I felt better.
19 Then he said, “Daniel, don’t be afraid. God loves you very much. Peace be with you. Be strong now, be strong.” When he spoke to me, I became stronger. Then I said, “Sir, you have given me strength. Now you can speak.”
20 So then he said, “Daniel, do you know why I have come to you? Soon I must go back to fight against the prince of Persia. When I go, the prince of Greece will come.
21 But Daniel, before I go, I must first tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. No one stands with me against those evil angels except Michael, the prince over your people. - Daniel 10 vs 10 - 21

The passage implicates the King of Persia, the Prince of Persia, and even the Prince of Greece. So, why give a pass to the King of Persia while you condemn only the prince of Persia?

This is assuming of cause that it makes sense to apply literal interpretation to something said in a vision.

Kobojunkie:
You claim the Prince of Persia was a demon, why exclude The King of Persia and the Prince of Greece as demons as well?

Who was the Prince of Greece?
How did the angel know that the Prince of Peace will come (especially as during the time of conversation, MedoPersia was world power). Invisible demon princes governed the world powers of Persia and Greece

If you think that prince as mentioned in the Bible necessarily refers to the son of a King, you are completely wrong. It could mean chief, head/captain, army chief, noble one or someone holding a high position. Even Jehovah himself describes himself as Prince of princes

Who is the ruler / Prince of this world?
What did he meant when he told Jesus that he could give the kingdoms of the world to whomever he pleases ?

Kobojunkie:
You claim the Prince of Persia was a demon, but why exclude The King of Persia and the Prince of Greece who were also mentioned?
The passage implicates the King of Persia, the Prince of Persia, and even the Prince of Greece. So, why give a pass to the King of Persia while you condemn only the prince of Persia?

This is assuming of cause that it makes sense to apply literal interpretation to something said in a vision.

Ok na
Darius, a mere mortal and a friend to God's people detained God's angel for 21 days from sending God's message to Daniel.

It's what makes sense to you that you just read

Aemmyjah:
■ Who was the Prince of Greece?
■ How did the angel know that the Prince of Peace will come (especially as during the time of conversation, MedoPersia was world power). Invisible demon princes governed the world powers of Persia and Greece
■ If you think that prince as mentioned in the Bible necessarily refers to the son of a King, you are completely wrong. It could mean chief, head/captain, army chief, noble one or someone holding a high position. Even Jehovah himself describes himself as Prince of princes
■ Who is the ruler / Prince of this world?
■ What did he meant when he told Jesus that he could give the kingdoms of the world to whomever he pleases ?

1. Cambyses II? He was the commander of the Persian army at the time that his father, Cyrus, was the King of Persia.

2. Where does this fable that invisible demon princes governed the world powers of Persia and Greece come from? Where in Scripture did you obtain this idea from?

3. So, it could mean many different things but this time it is used about the chief of the Kingdom of Persia(in the case of the Prince of Persia), so why can't it mean the actual Prince of Persia?

4. At the time of Daniel, or after Jesus Christ came down and announced His enemy was Satan? Which?

5. Satan is first and foremost a LIAR! Every single word out of his mouth is to be considered a lie. So, what the heck would I go about believing any of what he said for?

Aemmyjah:
■ Ok na. Darius, a mere mortal and a friend to God's people detained God's angel for 21 days from sending God's message to Daniel.
■ It's what makes sense to you that you just read

Darius the Mede was instead appointed the King of Babylon, never the King of Persia. I think you mean Cyrus. Friend of God's people? Detained? 21 literal days? Again, these are details revealed via vision so I am not certain it is even correct to give literal meanings to everything mentioned.

2. I prefer to allow the message to speak for itself, not color it with my private delusions.

Kobojunkie:
You claim the Prince of Persia was a demon, but why exclude The King of Persia and the Prince of Greece who were also mentioned?
The passage implicates the King of Persia, the Prince of Persia, and even the Prince of Greece. So, why give a pass to the King of Persia while you condemn only the prince of Persia?

This is assuming of cause that it makes sense to apply literal interpretation to something said in a vision.

You just cherry pick Bible translations of verses instead of looking for that closest to the original scriptures or comparing other translation. I don't know which translation from which you git Daniel 10:21 but who was the angel of God referring to as those evil angels ?

Or
Darius had a prince which happen to be an evil angel who was powerful enough to detain an angel for 21 days until Michael came to his rescue?
Or Darius had another Prince of Greece somewhere? Medopersia was still new (539 BCE) and Greece became world power under Alexander the great in 336 BCE. How then do you connect the princes of Persia and Greece during Daniel's time?
You have a very long way to go

Kobojunkie:
Darius the Mede was instead appointed the King of Babylon, never the King of Persia. I think you mean Cyrus. Friend of God's people? Detained? 21 literal days? Again, these are details revealed via vision so I am not certain it is even correct to give literal meanings to everything mentioned.

2. I prefer to allow the message to speak for itself, not color it with my private delusions.

1. Whether Cyrus or Darius, a mere human detained God's messenger fur 21 days? Mrs literal interpreter

2. You've always been delusional

Aemmyjah:
1. Whether Cyrus or Darius, a mere human detained God's messenger fur 21 days? Mrs literal interpreter
2. You've always been delusional

1. What do you mean by "detained"? And who said this "detained" happened in only 21 solar days? You keep pushing to apply literal meaning to all that is presented in a vision-format and I keep wondering where this comes from.

2. We humans all have our private delusions to frolic in. However, when it comes to the Word of God, those delusions ought to take a back seat to His Truth. The moment you assert your private delusion above God's Word, you assert God is a liar.

Kobojunkie:
1. Cambyses II? He was the commander of the Persian army at the time that his father, Cyrus, was the King of Persia.

2. Where does this fable that invisible demon princes governed the world powers of Persia and Greece come from? Where in Scripture did you obtain this idea from?

3. So, it could mean many different things but this time it is used about the chief of the Kingdom of Persia(in the case of the Prince of Persia), so why can't it mean the actual Prince of Persia?

4. At the time of Daniel, or after Jesus Christ came down and announced His enemy was Satan? Which?

5. Satan is first and foremost a LIAR! Every single word out of his mouth is to be considered a lie. So, what the heck would I go about believing any of what he said for?

1. The commander of a Persian army detained God's angel shey? Recall that much earlier, 185000 assyrian soldiers were killed by an angel in one night...

2. Ephesians 6:12 does not give fables

3. Ok na. The actual prince of Persia detained God's angel for 21 days. Makes sense to you. Yet I'm the delusional one

4. At the time of Daniel and at the time of Jesus, who was/were the Ruler of the world?

5. If he were lying, wouldn't Jesus have mentioned it. Remember it was a temptation. He was not tempting mere humans but the son of God himself Jesus Christ. Jesus himself later said the Ruler of this world will be cast out. Who was he referring to? God? Himself or Satan?
Mrs junkie interpreter

Kobojunkie:
1. What do you mean by "detained"? And who said this "detained" happened in only 21 solar days? You keep pushing to apply literal meaning to all that is presented in a vision-format and I keep wondering where this comes from.

2. We humans all have our private delusions to frolic in. However, when it comes to the Word of God, those delusions ought to take a back seat to His Truth. The moment you assert your private delusion above God's Word, you assert God is a liar.

1. OK na. A mere human detained an angel from delivering God's message for 21 days. I hope you are happy now?

2. De play. OK. Shey you want me to accept that a mere human detained an angel for 21 days? I yield na. You win. Oya celebrate 🎉

Aemmyjah:
■ You just cherry pick Bible translations of verses instead of looking for that closest to the original scriptures or comparing other translation. I don't know which translation from which you git Daniel 10:21 but who was the angel of God referring to as those evil angels ?
■ Or Darius had a prince which happen to be an evil angel who was powerful enough to detain an angel for 21 days until Michael came to his rescue?
■ Or Darius had another Prince of Greece somewhere? Medopersia was still new (539 BCE) and Greece became world power under Alexander the great in 336 BCE. How then do you connect the princes of Persia and Greece during Daniel's time?
You have a very long way to go

Even after posting, several times on this same thread, the contents of Daniel 10, you still accuse me of cherry-picking?

10 Then a hand touched me. When that happened, I got on my hands and knees. I was so afraid that I was shaking.
11 The man in the vision said to me, “Daniel, God loves you very much. Think very carefully about the words I will speak to you. Stand up; I have been sent to you.” And when he said this, I stood up. I was still shaking because I was afraid.
12 Then the man in the vision started talking again. He said, “Daniel, do not be afraid. From the very first day, you decided to get wisdom and to be humble in front of God, he has been listening to your prayers. I came to you because you have been praying.
13 But the prince of Persia has been fighting against me for 21 days. Then Michael, one of the most important princes, came to help me because I was stuck there with the king of Persia.
14 Now I have come to you, Daniel, to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future. The vision is about a time in the future.”
15 While the man was talking to me, I bowed low with my face toward the ground. I could not speak.
16 Then the one who looked like a man touched my lips. I opened my mouth and started to speak. I said to the one standing in front of me, “Sir, I am upset and afraid because of what I saw in the vision. I feel helpless.
17 Sir, I am Daniel your servant. How can I talk with you? My strength is gone and it is hard for me to breathe.”
18 The one who looked like a man touched me again. When he touched me, I felt better.
19 Then he said, “Daniel, don’t be afraid. God loves you very much. Peace be with you. Be strong now, be strong.” When he spoke to me, I became stronger. Then I said, “Sir, you have given me strength. Now you can speak.”
20 So then he said, “Daniel, do you know why I have come to you? Soon I must go back to fight against the prince of Persia. When I go, the prince of Greece will come.
21 But Daniel, before I go, I must first tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. No one stands with me against those evil angels except Michael, the prince over your people. - Daniel 10 vs 10 - 21

The shiny man in Daniel's vision clearly mentioned the Prince of Persia, the King of Persia, and also the King of Greece. And then at the end, he categorically referred to those he mentioned— excluding Michael—as those evil angels.

You, however, claim that The King of Persia, and probably even the Prince of Greece should not be considered under that category of "evil angels" without explaining exactly why they should be excluded.

2. Detained? 21 Solar days? Again, why do you insist on literally interpreting everything presented in this vision format?

3. Now we are almost getting somewhere, but we first need to resolve the issue of your application of literal conversion to stuff you select in the vision. Recall again why I keep mentioning that this is a vision and shouldn't be interpreted literally, something you have been doing all this while creating more questions than answers as a result.

Kobojunkie:
Even after posting, several times on this same thread, the contents of Daniel 10, you still accuse me of cherry-picking? The shiny man in Daniel's vision clearly mentioned the Prince of Persia, the King of Persia, and also the King of Greece. And then at the end, he categorically referred to those he mentioned— excluding Michael—as those evil angels.

You, however, claim that The King of Persia, and probably even the Prince of Greece should not be considered under that category of "evil angels" without explaining exactly why they should be excluded.

2. Detained? 21 Solar days? Again, why do you insist on literally interpreting everything presented in this vision format?

3. Now we are almost getting somewhere, but we first need to resolve the issue of your application of literal conversion to stuff you select in the vision. Recall again why I keep mentioning that this is a vision and shouldn't be interpreted literally, something you have been doing all this while creating more questions than answers as a result.

1. I said they were demons. What is a demon and what is an evil angel?

2. No na. Prince of Persia overfed him for 21 days. Either he withstood him, stood against him. The lcm is that he prevented that angel from sending God's message for 21 days until Michael intervened. According to you that prince was a mere man. Is Michael described as the prince of Persia or Greece or any world power? Again, how does the prince of Persia and Greece connect especially when Medopersia was world power.

3. I don't dance to your sad tune

Aemmyjah:
1. The commander of a Persian army detained God's angel shey? Recall that much earlier, 185000 assyrian soldiers were killed by an angel in one night...
2. Ephesians 6:12 does not give fables
3. Ok na. The actual prince of Persia detained God's angel for 21 days. Makes sense to you. Yet I'm the delusional one
4. At the time of Daniel and at the time of Jesus, who was/were the Ruler of the world?
5. If he were lying, wouldn't Jesus have mentioned it. Remember it was a temptation. He was not tempting mere humans but the son of God himself Jesus Christ. Jesus himself later said the Ruler of this world will be cast out. Who was he referring to? God? Himself or Satan?
Mrs junkie interpreter

1. You still haven't answered my question regarding why you feel the word detained should be used in this case.

2. You mean your special interpretation of Ephesians 6 vs 12 right? My understanding of what Paul supposedly said in Ephesians 6 v 12 is completely different from what you seem to assert. Also, I didn't know that the same rules applied during the time of Daniel, and God didn't know this. I say this because, in the Old Covenant, God never blamed a demon or devil for the sins of the peoples of any land for that matter. Never!

3. Over and over, you continue to apply this literal interpretation to that stated in the vision and somehow you expect me to accept it, why?

I don't accept that an angel was literally detained by anyone, not even a demon, for a literal period of 21 days. So why do you keep pushing this at me as if it is supposed to simply accept it and respond to exactly that? Why?

4. According to God the world was of men and He chose for His inheritance the descendants of Israel. At the time of Jesus Christ, when the Kingdom of God came into play, Jesus set Himself as the ruler of the Kingdom of God whereas Satan was put to rule over the world that consists of the Lost sheep of Israel... the world that Jesus Christ was sent to.

5. Jesus Christ did mention it.

44 Your father is the devil. You belong to him. You want to do what he wants. He was a murderer from the beginning. He was always against the truth. There is no truth in him. He is like the lies he tells. Yes, the devil is a liar. He is the father of lies. - John 8 vs 44

Or where you under some assumption that the above statement only applied as far as the devil after the temptation had already taken place?

Aemmyjah:
1. I said they were demons. What is a demon and what is an evil angel?
2. No na. Prince of Persia overfed him for 21 days. Either he withstood him, stood against him. The lcm is that he prevented that angel from sending God's message for 21 days until Michael intervened.
■ According to you that prince was a mere man. Is Michael described as the prince of Persia or Greece or any world power?
■ Again, how does the prince of Persia and Greece connect especially when Medopersia was world power.
5. I don't dance to your sad tune

1. So now, contrary to what you had said earlier which is that Cyrus was a friend of God's people, you now consider Cyrus a demon as well?

2. Prevented the angel from sending God's message for 21 days? Are you for real? Your LCM does not seem to work when compared to what is written.

3. This isn't according to me but following what is stated in the book. Micheal is described as the prince of Daniel's people, i.e. a Prince of Israel.

4. According to the Shiny Man, the prince of Greece is connected to the vision but you seem to think he should not be since you keep giving literal interpretations to the contents of the vision thereby causing you to eliminate or even ignore his mention altogether.

5. The problem isn't my tune at all but your desire to literally convert some of the information presented in vision format leading you to toss that which does not align with what is your previous thinking regarding what is written.

Look at the statement that the Shiny Man in the vision made in that same context regarding when the Prince of Greece would show up on the Persian scene.

20 So then he said, “Daniel, do you know why I have come to you? Soon I must go back to fight against the prince of Persia. When I go, the prince of Greece will come.
21 But Daniel, before I go, I must first tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. No one stands with me against those evil angels except Michael, the prince over your people. - Daniel 10 vs 20 - 21

Cyrus's 3rd year as King of Persia was about 556BC, this is the year that Daniel is written to have received this particular vision. Alexander the Great did not show up until about 336 BC, a period of about 220 years after Daniel received this vision.

You give a literal interpretation to all contents of the vision, well given the above information, how many more days was your prince of Persia demon able to literally detain the Shiny man for? 220 worth give or take the literal solar 21 days?

Kobojunkie:
1. So now, contrary to what you had said earlier which is that Cyrus was a friend of God's people, you now consider Cyrus a demon as well?

2. Prevented the angel from sending God's message for 21 days? Are you for real? Your LCM does not seem to work when compared to what is written.

3. This isn't according to me but following what is stated in the book. Micheal is described as the prince of Daniel's people, i.e. a Prince of Israel.

4. According to the Shiny Man, the prince of Greece is connected to the vision but you seem to think he should not be since you keep giving literal interpretations to the contents of the vision thereby causing you to eliminate or even ignore his mention altogether.

5. The problem isn't my tune at all but your desire to literally convert some of the information presented in vision format leading you to toss that which does not align with what is your previous thinking regarding what is written.

Look at the statement that the Shiny Man in the vision made in that same context regarding when the Prince of Greece would show up on the Persian scene.
Cyrus's 3rd year as King of Persia was about 556BC, this is the year that Daniel is written to have received this particular vision. Alexander the Great did not show up until about 336 BC, a period of about 220 years after Daniel received this vision.

You give a literal interpretation to all contents of the vision, well given the above information, how many more days was your prince of Persia demon able to literally detain the Shiny man for? 220 worth give or take the literal solar 21 days?

1. Common sense should've told you 4that was sarcastic. A mere human cannot oppose God's angel for 21 days. You disagree and call me delusional. Wouldn't Michael have even killed that human prince? You yourself input 'those evil angels' but still, sense no carry for you.

2. What did the Prince of Persia do to God's angel? What was the angel's mission? Was he looking for a spa?

3. The Prince of God's people. Who then is this prince of Persia that Michael fought with? Who was the angel referring to as 'those wicked angel'

4. I said they were demons or wicked angels. Was there any human prince of Greece in Daniel's day

5. Some parts are understood literally, others are not. Prince of Persia opposed an angel of God for 21 days until Michael intervened. The angel mentioned another prince of Greece after he goes. You yourself mentioned the angel as referring to 'those evil angels', yet, you can't see anything