TheSourcerer:
true
Except maybe biological Love (parent-child)but I believe this 'love' is mere Instinct , as we have noticed this Instinct of protecting young one in animals , so even biological Love is not real

Well it depends on what you define as real.
If real is your experience and perception of reality then I would argue it's real.

I remember someone explaining Romantic love as "Nature highjacking your mind to make you want to procreate" at the end of the day we are not that different from other living organisms, but I don't think we should trivialise our experiences, just because we can explain it away.
There is some aspects of love I argue goes beyond instinct like the ability to still love someone that is dead a type of love that had limited evolutionary advantage. (Since we are in the Muslim section, even Muhammad never stopped loving khadija to the end)

IMAliyu:

Well it depends on what you define as real.
If real is your experience and perception of reality then I would argue it's real.

I remember someone explaining Romantic love as "Nature highjacking your mind to make you want to procreate" at the end of the day we are not that different from other living organisms, but I don't think we should trivialise our experiences, just because we can explain it away.
There is some aspects of love I argue goes beyond instinct like the ability to still love someone that is dead a type of love that had limited evolutionary advantage. (Since we are in the Muslim section, even Muhammad never stopped loving khadija to the end)

could be instict still too, the same instict that drives the vulture to go for dead things . I appreciate your unbiased suggestion though

budaatum:

I have read the Quran. It gave me a better understanding about religion in general but never made a believer of me.

surprisingly, most Muslims never read Qur'an in the language they understand, because Muhammad promised 10 rewards for each Arabic letter during recitation. So, they prefer the reward than the understanding. Infact, they don't care about the understanding, because they rely on the scholars that already understood the book.

I never read English Qur'an cover to cover too when I was a Muslim. The only difference with me is I understand arabic, so I get the meaning as I read the Arabic.

I can't count the number of times I read the Qur'an cover to cover in Arabic.

Xmuslim:
surprisingly, most Muslims never read Qur'an in the language they understand, because Muhammad promised 10 rewards for each Arabic letter during recitation. So, they prefer the reward than the understanding. Infact, they don't care about the understanding, because they rely on the scholars that already understood the book.

I never read English Qur'an cover to cover too when I was a Muslim. The only difference with me is I understand arabic, so I get the meaning as I read the Arabic.

I can't count the number of times I read the Qur'an cover to cover in Arabic.

"10 reward for every Arabic word"? It sounds like something someone might have added at a later date as I doubt Mohammed would have concerned himself with translations in other languages. I mean, their wasn't even a book in Arabic in his lifetime not to talk of translations. And many could not even have been expected to read Arabic.

Relying on scholars is like relying on men of God in Christianity. The result in both cases is ignorant sheep!

LordReed:


My dear buda is like a distillation of that which is good in all of us.

You elevate me far higher than my worth my Lord!

TheSourcerer:


Reed you too? Lol



I think the common thing is love
Love supercedes



But then again is love real or another blissful illusion we hold on to?

Are you denying the evidence before thee, Sourcerer?

Is it not the truth that if I love you to death you would put down all your defenses and love me back, or at the very least, not attack me?

Perhaps you are not convinced yet, so I shall love you more!

Xmuslim:


I don't think love is real per se. We don't usually love people's personality without any other attachment (such as beauty, money, religion etc). Thus, we don't love unconditionally. The love fades once the conditions upon which it's built are no more

I don't think love is unconditional either. A condition must exist for love.

I for instance, love my fellow human beings and walk down the street smiling at people. That they are human would be the attachment, though I do love animals too and my village people would tell how I cry and get angry if trees on my farm are cut.

The condition for my love is we are all human and my mind is clear of prejudice which is produced by ignorance. If I had not created a condition of no prejudice in my own mind by reducing my ignorance, I would surely find it hard to love some of my fellow human beings, I think.

I do draw the line at the men who are pigs though! They just need to make out the pointy bit between their legs makes them superior to tits and all my love goes out the window and I snarl!

I guess there are conditions that are required for both love and hatred, but we have a huge say in ensuring we chose the better conditions for either.

IMAliyu:

Usually feeling a disconnect from emotions could be a sign of depression, stress, or anxiety.

Kinda went through a similar thing back in secondary school and still have some of the residue of that to this day, like when I got the news when my grandfather passed away I couldn't feel anything (and I liked the man) and I just went back to sleep while everyone was trying to console each other, or when my best friend was having feats of paranoia and later hospitalised for cerebral malaria I still couldn't feel anything, don't get me wrong was I around for him, but my lack of reaction or emotion when I got the news disturbs me to this day.
I started wondering why, and thinking something is most definitely wrong.

Emotions on some level is what connects people and helps build relationships (On a biological level even kinda like the reason a mother doesn't abandon her infant no matter how annoying or demanding they can get, interestingly enough the evolutionary argument for why women are more compassionate than men). When you can't display any emotion people have a hard time relating with you or reading you and thus may call you non human. The reason psychopaths are dangerous is they can convincingly fake emotional expressions and have no ability for empathy.

There are people who can't express their emotions like wailing and crying like some people do but doesn't mean they don't have emotions, they mostly do it secretly. I don't think that's a psychological issue, it's just your own way of expressing your emotions.

A psychological issue is when one doesn't have any emotions at all e.g a sociopath, psychopath.

budaatum:

Are you denying the evidence before thee, Sourcerer?

Is it not the truth that if I love you to death you would put down all your defenses and love me back, or at the very least, not attack me?

Perhaps you are not convinced yet, so I shall love you more!

lol sure thing dude!







Yes if I did love you to death yes I would low down my gaurd ,. . .If the 'love' is reciprocated

I'm sure there are instances of mother Naturally not developing emotions (love) for her new born (instinct)



Likewise children born without an atom of love for their birth mother



So love at one point is nothing but instinct , and an unreal emotion





Thinking about it love can't even move a blanket , it's just a type of brain coinsciousness

budaatum:

"10 reward for every Arabic word"? It sounds like something someone might have added at a later date as I doubt Mohammed would have concerned himself with translations in other languages. I mean, their wasn't even a book in Arabic in his lifetime not to talk of translations. And many could not even have been expected to read Arabic.

You need to study hadith and seerah (history of Islam) to understand who Muhammad was and what he preached. Qur'an is just a tip of the iceberg.

It took several scholarly arguments before permission was given for the translation of the Qur'an, and a verdict was given that NO TRANSLATION IS EQUIVALENT TO THE ARABIC QUR'AN. So, to understand Qur'an, you must learn Arabic.

There wasn't a book called Qur'an in Muhammad time, but people memorised it and teach others. There were few written verses scattered around too. Some written on leaves, animal skin, etc

Relying on scholars is like relying on men of God in Christianity. The result in both cases is ignorant sheep!

YES.

Xmuslim:


You need to study hadith and seerah (history of Islam) to understand who Muhammad was and what he preached. Qur'an is just a tip of the iceberg.

It took several scholarly arguments before permission was given for the translation of the Qur'an, and a verdict was given that NO TRANSLATION IS EQUIVALENT TO THE ARABIC QUR'AN. So, to understand Qur'an, you must learn Arabic.

There wasn't a book called Qur'an in Muhammad time, but people memorised it and teach others. There were few written verses scattered around too. Some written on leaves, animal skin, etc


YES.

One must study the history of all religions in order to understand them.

My main Quran is the Translation and Commentary by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, and includes contextual history on every page. I have two others that don't but the comparison is helpful.

I've read about 4 autobiographies of Mohammed, and a couple of books on the history of Islam, and a bit of various versions of the Hadith.

I'm in no way suggesting to be an expert on the subject, but I'd say, as a non-Muslim, I've done pretty well, and even much more than some Muslims whom you say don't even read the Quran because they can't read Arabic.

But of course, the measure is not how much one reads but the transformation one's reading produces in one, don't you think?

TheSourcerer:

Thinking about it love can't even move a blanket , it's just a type of brain consciousness.

Would you say a motor car is just metal because it can't fly you to the moon?

The function of love is not blanket moving!

budaatum:

Would you say a motor car is just metal because it can't fly you to the moon?

The function of love is not blanket moving!

hence it is not real (think outside the box)
Would you say hate is real?
Is hate not relative
Love and hate cannot me measured curbed or labtested , how do we know love is not just instinct to feel welcome on the planet , to aid reprocreation like animals , would you say animals feel love as love(an emotion) or an instinct?

TheSourcerer:
hence it is not real (think outside the box)
Would you say hate is real?
Is hate not relative
Love and hate cannot me measured curbed or labtested , how do we know love is not just instinct to feel welcome on the planet , to aid reprocreation like animals , would you say animals feel love as love(an emotion) or an instinct?

Remind me how you feel about Jesus again. Is your feeling not real, or do we need to measure it first?

I'm certain that you'd recognise when someone loves or hates you as real even if you can't measure it. Just go through some past threads and you'd see the difference between your lovers and those you hate and who hate you.

Yes, animals do feel love and hatred, you'd know this if you ever had a pet. If I said a dog, for instance, bites those it loves, would you agree?

budaatum:

Remind me how you feel about Jesus again. Is your feeling not real, or do we need to measure it first?

I'm certain that you'd recognise when someone loves or hates you as real even if you can't measure it. Just go through some past threads and you'd see the difference between your lovers and those you hate and who hate you.

Yes, animals do feel love and hatred, you'd know this if you ever had a pet. If I said a dog, for instance, bites those it loves, would you agree?

Not that they are not real , they are only real to the person percieving this emotion


Take for instance Hitler passes through our middle as walking down the street , I know hitler as a Nazi War Lord and you know him as a philanthropist , our emotions of him would be totally different , whose emotion is right amongst this two , even though they both believe the emotion they feel is real , it doesn't affect Hitler , so how do you know his feeling towards us is as we take him ?

budaatum:

Remind me how you feel about Jesus again. Is your feeling not real, or do we need to measure it first?

I'm certain that you'd recognise when someone loves or hates you as real even if you can't measure it. Just go through some past threads and you'd see the difference between your lovers and those you hate and who hate you.

Yes, animals do feel love and hatred, you'd know this if you ever had a pet. If I said a dog, for instance, bites those it loves, would you agree?

I love dogs
Her name is Bella , a GSD , you?

TheSourcerer:
I love dogs
Her name is Bella , a GSD , you?

No, not got one now. I've had four in my lifetime and they loved me to bits.

Did Bella hate or love you?

budaatum:

No, not got one now. I've had four in my lifetime and they loved me to bits.

Did Bella hate or love you?

Bella's instinct to stangers is aggression
Bella's Instinct towards me is playful not love




Likewise 'lovers' , they are friends who procreate , real lovers are playful like yes..... Dogs

TheSourcerer:
Bella's instinct to stangers is aggression
Bella's Instinct towards me is playful not love

Likewise 'lovers' , they are friends who procreate , real lovers are playful like yes..... Dogs

Well, some would say Bella's reaction towards you is love, or at least, affection, and that towards strangers is apprehension, at least. Even if both are instinctive, something motivates that instinct, unless you want to claim its an arbitrary reaction.

You don't just love people instinctively, for instance. Something has to motivate how you feel.

budaatum:

Well, some would say Bella's reaction towards you is love, or at least, affection, and that towards strangers is apprehension, at least. Even if both are instinctive, something motivates that instinct, unless you want to claim its an arbitrary reaction.

You don't just love people instinctively, for instance. Something has to motivate how you feel.

lol I think you do love people instinctively , love at first sight? And I've seen cases of dogs totally 'loving' a stranger hehe

budaatum:

Well, some would say Bella's reaction towards you is love, or at least, affection, and that towards strangers is apprehension, at least. Even if both are instinctive, something motivates that instinct, unless you want to claim its an arbitrary reaction.

You don't just love people instinctively, for instance. Something has to motivate how you feel.

what motivates love at first sight?

TheSourcerer:
what motivates love at first sight?

I wouldn't know since its not something I have experienced. I have experienced lust at first sight though, and what most describe as love at first sight seems more like that to.

What motivated love at first sight for you, Sourcerer?

budaatum:

I wouldn't know since its not something I have experienced. I have experienced lust at first sight though, and what most describe as love at first sight seems more like that to.

What motivated love at first sight for you, Sourcerer?

remember the can cokes I illustrated earlier? The emotion mix of the two burst open at the perfect time. Equilibrium of spontaneous emotions on perfect lane at first sight , it is very rare !

TheSourcerer:
remember the can cokes I illustrated earlier? The emotion mix of the two burst open at the perfect time. Equilibrium of spontaneous emotions on perfect lane at first sight , it is very rare !

The two cans of coke you explosed at the same level of energy and burst of force that I referred to here? I don't think its that rare. Go do the same to any two cans of coke and you'd see the action repeats everytime.

By the way, why do you pleasure in convoluted sentences? Do you not know they just show muddling of thought though they are meant to deceive? "Equilibrium of spontaneous emotions" my two tits!

TheSourcerer:
hence it is not real (think outside the box)
Would you say hate is real?
Is hate not relative
Love and hate cannot me measured curbed or labtested , how do we know love is not just instinct to feel welcome on the planet , to aid reprocreation like animals , would you say animals feel love as love(an emotion) or an instinct?

Reminds me of a quote from my favourite sci-fi movie.

"If our gods and our hopes are nothing but scientific phenomena, then let us admit it must be said that our love is scientific as well." (GITS Innocence)

budaatum:

The two cans of coke you explosed at the same level of energy and burst of force that I referred to here? I don't think its that rare. Go do the same to any two cans of coke and you'd see the action repeats everytime.

By the way, why do you pleasure in convoluted sentences? Do you not know they just show muddling of thought though they are meant to deceive? "Equilibrium of spontaneous emotions" my two tits!

hahaha rotfl hahahaha your tits

IMAliyu:

Reminds me of a quote from my favourite sci-fi movie.

"If our gods and our hopes are nothing but scientific phenomena, then let us admit it must be said that our love is scientific as well." (GITS Innocence)

hmm deep!

budaatum:

The two cans of coke you explosed at the same level of energy and burst of force that I referred to here? I don't think its that rare. Go do the same to any two cans of coke and you'd see the action repeats everytime.

By the way, why do you pleasure in convoluted sentences? Do you not know they just show muddling of thought though they are meant to deceive? "Equilibrium of spontaneous emotions" my two tits!

in a world the cans are shaken vigorously, it would be rare to find that equilibrium



NB you remember this was a random illustration Right?

TheSourcerer:
in a world the cans are shaken vigorously, it would be rare to find that equilibrium.

I beg to differ. Shake any two cans of coke on planet earth at least and you'd get exactly the same reaction.

Let me know the reaction you get on some other planet though, because I would really like to know.

budaatum:

I beg to differ. Shake any two cans of coke on planet earth at least and you'd get exactly the same reaction.

Let me know the reaction you get on some other planet though, because I would really like to know.

fine as humans are not the same these cans cannot be same hence the rarity of an equilibrium....... Who d Bleep are u man

TheSourcerer:
fine as humans are not the same these cans cannot be same hence the rarity of an equilibrium

If any two cans of coke are shaken before opening them simultaneously, you'd get exactly the same reaction from both irrespective of who shook them.

If you doubt this, please go get as many cans of coke as you can and ask someone to shake them and then open them. If you do not get the exact same reaction, do let me know and I'll pay for them all plus whatever it cost for your trouble.

budaatum:

If any two cans of coke are shaken before opening them simultaneously, you'd get exactly the same reaction from both irrespective of who shook them.

If you doubt this, please go get as many cans of coke as you can and ask someone to shake them and then open them. If you do not get the exact same reaction, do let me know and I'll pay for them all plus whatever it cost for your trouble.

in a world where holes of can differs then you Bleep face !