The Truth About Tithing - Religion - Nairaland
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| The Truth About Tithing by shadrach77: 1:25pm On Jul 14, 2010 |
“And my people shall know the truth and the truth shall set them free” “Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse for ye have robbed me even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the store house and prove me now herewith saith the lord of hosts if I will not open the windows of heaven and pour out a blessing, that there would not be room enough to receive it.” Malachi 3 : 8 -10 The above quoted scripture is probably one of the most quoted in the bible. Unfortunately, it is being quoted out of context and used as a weapon of mass intimidation, manipulation, extortion, oppression, cajolery and outright lies and deceit by some church leaders to collect 10 per cent of the gross income of their church members who have been hoodwinked into believing that they are doing God’s will. Before I go into the details of this discourse, I want to state categorically that I am a God-loving, bible-believing Christian who has the fear of God in his heart. I am also not writing this article to undermine any church or pastor, but to let people realize the truth about tithes and remove the yoke placed by some pastors upon them. I also want to state categorically that I strongly believe in giving to the church for the sole purpose of propagating God’s work and the Christian ministry. I will continue to encourage all Christians to give their all to God as exemplified by the widow’s mite which Jesus Christ himself referred to in the bible. Now, back to Malachi 3:8-10, the first question one should ask is who was this message directed at? The answer lies in the book of Numbers 18:25-28 which states that “The Lord commanded Moses to say to the Levites, when you receive from the Israelites the tithe that the Lord gives you as your possession, you must present a tenth of it as a special contribution to the Lord. This special contribution will be considered as the equivalent of the offering which the farmer makes of new grain and wine. In this way you would also present the special contribution which belongs to the Lord from all the tithes which you receive from the Israelites. You are to give this special contribution for the Lord to Aaron the priest.” From the above, it is clear that it was the Levites that were directed to pay a tithe they collected from the Israelites to the priest who represents God and not the people of Israel. It was these Levites that were being referred to in the book of Malachi as those who rob God. A thorough study of the book of Malachi would reveal that in those days the Levites were collecting the tithe from the people of Israel and not remitting a tithe of it to the house of God, hence Malachi’s statement which is now being quoted out of context. To understand what tithe really means one would have to understand the social reasons and cultural/religious setting within which it was situated. This concept of tithes was properly explained in the bible as stated in the laws of the tithe which can be found in the books of Leviticus 27:30-34, Numbers 18:25-31 and Deuteronomy 14:22-29. Upon reading these passages one would understand what tithes really mean, but unfortunately most pastors prefer to neglect these passages that tell us the true meaning of tithes and emphasize on Malachi 3:8-10 which was directed to the Levites of that time to remit the priest’s share of the tithes they collected to him. It is worthy of note that Malachi does not even define what tithe is and how it should be paid. The definition of tithes, as practised today, was manufactured by modern day pastors to suit their purpose as it is completely in contrast with what is in the bible and it only seeks to manipulate Christians to believe that God requests 10 per cent of their gross income from them. So what is tithe and why did God request that it be paid to the Levities? The answer can be found in the following passages: Leviticus 27:30-32 which states that “one tenth of the produce of the land, whether grain or fruit belongs to the Lord. If a man wishes to buy back any of it he must pay the standard price plus an additional 20 per cent. One in every ten domestic animal belongs to the Lord. When the animals are counted, every tenth one belongs to the Lord.” And Deuteronomy 26:12 which states that “every third year give the tithe, a tenth of your crops to the Levites, the foreigners, the orphans and the widows, so that in every community they will have all they need to eat.” The above quoted passages clearly tell us what tithe is and the reason why God directed the people of Israel to pay tithes. It is very evident that it was a social arrangement for the less privileged in the Jewish society of that time. It was also meant to take care of the Levites because they had no land or property of their own (today, pastors are amongst the wealthiest property owners in Nigeria). This social arrangement is obviously not relevant to us today. It also states that every third year is the year of tithing, not the weekly/monthly tithes being extorted from church members today. Another passage illustrates the true meaning of tithes properly and also states clearly that tithe is not money. Deuteronomy 14:22-29 says: “Set aside as tithe a tenth of all that your fields produce each year then go to the one place where the Lord your God has chosen to be worshiped and there in his presence eat the tithes of your grain, wine and olive oil and first born of your cattle and sheep. Do this so that you may learn to have reverence for the Lord your God always. If the place of worship is too far from your home for you to carry there the tithe of the produce that the Lord has blessed you with, then sell your produce and take the money with you to the one place of worship, spend it on whatever you want ,beef, lamb, wine, beer and there in the presence of the lord you and your family are to eat and enjoy yourselves. Do not neglect the Levites who live in your towns for they have no property of their own. At the end of every third year, bring the tithe of all your crops and store it in your towns. This is food for the Levites since they own no property and for the orphans, foreigners and widows who live in your towns. Do this and the lord your God would bless you in everything you do.” From the above passage, it is very clear that tithe is not money and it is not the exclusive preserve of the Levites (church). It was a religious practice in those days to give reverence to God and to celebrate God in his place of worship. The Levites were only included for the main reason that they had no land of their own and that reason is not relevant in today’s society. Yet some pastors would tell you that you are cursed and would not go to heaven if you don’t give them 10 per cent of your gross income. All this hypocrisy would not have bothered me if all the money being collected was being used to propagate God’s work. But the truth as we all know today is that this money is being used to finance lavish, flamboyant and exotic lifestyle that is unbecoming of a man who truly claims to serve God, as a pastor who is expected to be meek and humble like our Lord Jesus Christ was. As a concluding part to this article, I would want to refer us to the book of Hebrews, which was written to the early Christians. This provides irrefutable proof that Christians are not meant to pay tithes as the priesthood of our Lord Jesus Christ does not require it. Hebrews 7:5, says: “And those descendants of Levites who are priests are commanded by the law to collect one tenth from the people of Israel, that is from their own countrymen even though their countrymen are also descendants of Abraham.” From this verse, we can jump to verses 11-13 which say: “It was on the basis of the Levitical priesthood that the law was given to the people of Israel. Now, if the work of the Levitical priests had been perfect there would be no need for a different kind of priest to appear, one who is in the priestly order of Melchizedek not of Aaron. For when the priesthood is changed, there also has to be a change in the law. And our Lord of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe of Judah and Moses did not mention his tribe when he spoke of priests.” The above passage is self-explanatory and it states clearly that the practice of tithing has no place under the priestly order of our Lord Jesus Christ. In fact, the passage suggests that the collection of tithes is belittling of the priestly order of our Lord Jesus Christ. It states that it is wrong for us as Christians to receive or pay tithes and is not relevant to us as Christians because we belong to a superior priestly order. Once again, I would like to state that this article is not meant for us as Christians to revolt against the church or our pastors. It is just meant to establish the biblical truth about tithes and remove the yoke from people who labour to pay tithes–not required of them by God–while their pastors are living luxuriously. Today, many pastors see the church as their personal business and even fraudulent people are opening up churches so that they can have access to people’s tithes and use it for their personal comfort. I encourage all of us as Christians to remain vigilant and continue to serve God in truth and in faith to the glory of his holy name. Amen. Another point of note is: how come out of the 613 biblical laws of Moses which were handed out to the people of Israel, it is only an adulterated version of the law of tithe that is still being practiced today, apart from the Ten Commandments? How come we are no longer required to offer burnt sacrifices? How come we no longer stone people to death for sinning? The truth is that only tithing was dug out of the laws of Moses because it presents material benefits to the collectors of tithes. Given that most Christians do not study their bibles and depend on their priests to guide them through, it was easy for pastors to pick a passage in the bible (Malachi 3 : 8-10), quote it out of context and use it to manipulate the flock into parting with 10 per cent of their income. Furthermore, it is worthy of note that neither Jesus Christ nor any of the apostles ever preached about or collected tithe. In fact, in the bible, Jesus Christ only spoke about tithes in Luke 11:42 which states that: “But woe unto you Pharisees! For ye tithe mint and rue all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.” Here we can see that Jesus Christ is rebuking the Pharisees for laying emphasis on tithes instead of the more important things of the spirit, like our pastors are doing today. In Acts 15, we find outlined what the apostles all agreed was necessary for the newly converted Gentiles to practise, and by inspiration of the Holy Spirit of God, tithing is conspicuously missing. Yet, what is one of the very first legislated duties taught to Gentile converts by the Church today? It is that they must tithe their annual salaries to the Church. Where did this unscriptural law of Christian tithing come from? Notice this telling bit of history from the Encyclopaedia Britannica (1963, volume 22, page 253, ‘TITHES’). “Tithes in Christendom—The earliest authentic example of anything like a law of the State enforcing payment appears to occur in the capitularies [Ecclesiastes] of Charlemagne at the end of the 8th or beginning of the 9th century. Tithes were, by that enactment, to be applied to the maintenance of the bishop, clergy, the poor, and the fabric of the church. In the course of time the principle of payment of tithes was extended far beyond its original intention. Thus, they became transferable to laymen and saleable like ordinary property, despite the injunctions of the third Lateran Council; and they became payable out of sources of income [not just farming and herding, but other trades and occupations and salaries paid in the form of money] not originally tithable.” The Catholic Church knows its own history. Here is how tithing got back into the Church after being absent for nearly five centuries: “As the Church expanded and various institutions arose, it became necessary to make laws which would insure the proper and permanent support of the clergy. The payment of tithes was adopted from the Old Law… The earliest positive legislation on the subject seems to be contained in the letter of the bishops assembled at Tours in 567 and the [canons] of the Council of Macon in 585.”—The Catholic Encyclopaedia. They “extended” their base of tithe collecting to eventually include all forms of income. All Christian scholars know that although money was in wide use in ancient Israel, it was never a titheable commodity. But modern pastors don’t want tithes of goats or oil or corn, they want money–cold, hard cash! God has a word to the “shepherds of the sheep”, and it is the very same message that He had for the Levites in the book of Malachi. And it is this: “My people have been lost sheep, their shepherds have caused them to go astray” (Jer. 50:6). Were Israelites aware that they were being led astray by their spiritual leaders? Not most, and neither are Christians today aware that they are being led astray by their spiritual leaders. |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by ogajim(m): 2:54pm On Jul 14, 2010 |
You can expect a lot of fireworks for this brilliant piece of work, those who gain from mandatory tithing will go after you for sure. Giving should not be limited to a percentage, it should be everything you can afford to give at a particular time be it money, time, articles, etc. Shalom. |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by Tonyet1(m): 5:16pm On Jul 14, 2010 |
When giving 10% is already a very big issue i wonder how you'll respond to giving your all. not so funny!  |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by Acidosis(m): 11:46pm On Jul 14, 2010 |
Tonye-t: |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by noetic16(m): 12:22am On Jul 15, 2010 |
finally I will see the return of kunleOshob on NL . . this is his favourite subject of discourse |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by Cmarketer(m): 4:41am On Jul 15, 2010 |
There is a need for some of us to be first born again before we can understand this divine commandment. The priests are not been referred here but every one. You can never interprete a spiritual assignments like this with a carnal mind. Get born again first. This is because John 1:12 said that to them that believe, God gave them the power to become child of God. The power to become is futuristcs, and it implies that you cannot become a child of God without tithing. And you must be empowered to understand and do it. |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by KunleOshob(m): 7:15am On Jul 15, 2010 |
@noetic The OP was originally written by me, it must have been plagiarised from one of the numerous sites it has now spread to all over the internet so I don't think I have more to say on the topic. However I am glad that this article is spreading all over the world and being used to set the tithe captives free from their fruadulent captors. @cmarketer Being born again has absolutely nothing to do with tithing so stop twisting scripture to justify the fraudulent doctrine. It would do you some good to thoroughly go through the OP and assess it on it's bible based merit rather than re-gurgitate the lies you have been fed with concerning tithes. |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by anonimi: 10:48am On Jul 15, 2010 |
thanks KunleOshob for reiterating your message without fear of intimidators. For those who seek biblical truth on tithes, go through this sketch that covers the issues. --------------------- As a sequel to my last article debunking Mr. Enoch Adejare Adeboye’s claims about tithing, Believers are not subject to the Tithe, I hereby present a court scenario in which the General Overseer of the Redeemed Christian Church of God stands before the Great Judge of all the earth, the Lord Jesus Christ, on this subject. Enjoy the conversation: Jesus: Enoch, you have been charged with multiple counts of extortion. Your crime spree covers 20 years and thousands of victims. You have defrauded people out of their money with fear and manipulation, telling them they had to tithe 10% of their income to your church and that God would bless them if they did. You also told them that if they didn’t tithe they would go to hell. How do you plead? Pastor Enoch: I plead not guilty, sir. I have done nothing wrong. I have only preached what the Bible says. In the Bible Abraham tithed to Melchizedek and God blessed him for his faithful giving. The Bible even says he was rich in silver and gold. Jesus: Is it not true, Enoch, that in Genesis chapter 13 verse 2 the Bible says Abraham was rich with livestock, silver and gold? Pastor Enoch: Yes, you are exactly right, that’s what I just told you. Jesus: Ok, we read about Abraham being a rich man in chapter 13. But it is not until Genesis chapter 14 that we read about Abraham’s tithe to Melchizedek. So Abraham was already a rich man before he tithed to Melchizedek, wasn’t he? Pastor Enoch: Yes, I suppose you are right. Jesus: So his riches were not the result of his tithe to Melchizedek? Pastor Enoch: No. Jesus: Enoch, you also say God blessed him for his faithful giving. How many times is it recorded that Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek? Pastor Enoch: Well, just once. Jesus: So the Bible never said that he gave week after week? Pastor Enoch: No; it does not. Jesus: Where did Abraham get the things that he gave to Melchizedek? Pastor Enoch: Well, the Bible says it was from the plunders of war. Jesus: So you are telling me that he gave from the plunders of war? Pastor Enoch: Yes that’s what the Bible says. Jesus: So he basically took things that were not really his in the first place and gave them as the tithe? Pastor Enoch: That is what the scripture seems to indicate. Jesus: Is it recorded that he ever took anything from his own possessions and tithed them to Melchizedek or anyone else? Pastor Enoch: I guess not Jesus: You guess not! You pastor one of the largest denominations on the planet and you are only guessing? Is it or is it not written that he ever gave any of his own possessions as a tithe to anyone? Pastor Enoch: No; it is not written anywhere that I have seen. Jesus: Is it recorded as to what exactly Abraham did give Melchizedek? Pastor Enoch: I believe it says plunder? Jesus: So plunder could be any number of things? Pastor Enoch: Yes, I suppose. Judge: It could have been food, cattle, sheep, the people’s possessions or any number of things. It does not say it was all money; correct? Pastor Enoch: Yes; sir. You are correct; it does not say just money. Jesus: As a matter of fact, money is never mentioned in that account at all; is that correct, Enoch? Pastor Enoch: Yes, sir; money is never mentioned; just goods and food and people. Jesus: So there is no way you can say with any certainty that Abraham in fact gave Melchizedek any money at all? Pastor Enoch: That is right. Jesus: I only have one last question for you, Enoch. Did God command Abraham to give this plunder as tithe to Melchizedek? Pastor Enoch: No; it appears that he did this voluntarily. Jesus: So are you trying to tell me that because of this voluntary, one time gift by Abraham, that may not have even consisted of money, all Christians everywhere are obligated to bring 10% of their monthly salary to a local church? Jesus: Considering all the evidence, I would say you are beyond any shadow of a doubt guilty of deliberately trying to make the scriptures says things they have not said for financial gain. Pastor Enoch: Sir, I can see how foolish I was to try and use the story of Melchizedeck to try and get the people to tithe money. But there are many other verses that will support my belief on tithing. Jacob said he would give God 10% of everything. I think we should follow his example. Jesus: Let’s see what Jacob said. Please read the verse you are talking about for me, Enoch. Pastor Enoch: In Genesis chapter 28, starting at verse 20 it says, ‘Jacob vowed a vow, saying, “If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and clothing to put on, so that I come again to my father’s house in peace, and Yahweh will be my God, then this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, will be God’s house. Of all that you will give me I will surely give the tenth to you.”‘ Jesus: You said people should follow Jacobs’s example, is that right, Enoch? Pastor Enoch: Yes; that is right. He vowed to give a tenth and we should too. Jesus: Let me point out one thing for you, Enoch. Jacob said he would Give God a tenth, ONLY if He blessed him first. So as you said previously, we should follow Jacob’s example and tell God that we will only give him a tenth if he blesses us first. Is that right? Pastor Enoch: That is not what I meant. Jesus: What did you mean then? Pastor Enoch: That we should give God a tenth also. Jesus: There you go again, trying to make the scripture say what you want it to say for your benefit. I would also like you to tell me the scriptures that say that Jacob kept his vow with God. I would also like to know where he gave the tenth to because there was no temple or levites to give it to at that time. Pastor Enoch: I can not think of any scriptures that say where or if he ever tithed after his vow. Jesus: It is obvious that Jacob made a voluntary and conditional vow to God. This in no way can be used as a reason to demand others to bring their income to you or any other place. Pastor Enoch: I do have a few more scriptures that I believe will show that we are supposed to tithe. Jesus: So far, all you have done is taken scripture and misapplied it to your beliefs and for your gain. But in order to be fair to you I will allow you to present more evidence. Pastor Enoch: In the book of Malachi chapter 3 starting at verse 8 it says, “Will a man rob God? yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, In what have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the store-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now with this, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.” So you see sir, we are commanded to bring the tithes into the storehouse or God will curse us. Jesus: Answer me this, Enoch, were you aware that I never required anyone to tithe money? Pastor Enoch: No I didn’t know that. Jesus: The tithe spoken of here was always edible products never money. Pastor Enoch: Sir, that is because they didn’t have money at the time so God had them tithe food instead. Jesus: Not true, money is first mentioned in Genesis – and Malachi was written hundreds of years later. God had them bring food in so that the levites, the fatherless and widows may eat and be satisfied. The tithe was used mainly to take care of people. Also notice it says in the verse you quoted, that there may be food in my house. How do you completely overlook the word food in those verses? Pastor Enoch: I don’t know. Jesus: I also want you to know that these verses speak to people under the Old Testament law. As you may or may not know, I fulfilled the law while I was on earth. The Law is no longer binding. Tithing was part of that law that has been abolished. Jesus: And once again, you have tried to completely take a scripture out of context and apply it to others for your benefit. Can you give me a single scripture where God changed the tithe from food to money? Pastor Enoch: I do not know of any. Jesus: So if God never changed it from food to money who did? Pastor Enoch: Man must have. Jesus: So far all you have done, Enoch, is take Old Testament scriptures out of context and try to apply it to believers under the New Covenant. Is this all the proof you have? Pastor Enoch: I do have a New Testament scripture that will show that You told us to tithe. Jesus: Ok; let me hear it. Pastor Enoch: You said in Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith. But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone.” Surely, You were saying there that we should be tithing. Jesus: Let me ask you a question, who was I talking to in that passage? Pastor Enoch: The scripture says the scribes and Pharisees. Jesus: Are you and your members scribes or Pharisees? Pastor Enoch: No sir; God forbid!. Jesus: I also said in that passage, “You have left undone the weightier matters of the law“. Are we under the law, Enoch? Pastor Enoch: No. Jesus: Why not? Pastor Enoch: Because You fulfilled it, and it passed away. Jesus: When did I fulfill the law? Pastor Enoch: When You were crucified. Jesus: So the law was still in effect until My death? Pastor Enoch: That is correct sir. Jesus: I think you know where I am going with this; don’t you? Pastor Enoch: Yes; sir. Since You had not yet been crucified and the law was still binding, the Pharisees were required to tithe because it was part of the law. Once the law ended, tithing ended also. Jesus: I want you to take a look at that verse again. Also tell me, what were they tithing? Pastor Enoch: The scripture says it was mint, dill and cumin. Jesus: Was money mentioned there? Pastor Enoch: No sir; it was not. Jesus: Once again it was edible products that they were tithing, not money. Do you have anything else you would like to say? Pastor Enoch: If people only tithed edible products like the scripture says, then how would the church survive? We had to build that million-seater cathedral to accomodate the people who come for Holy Ghost Festival yearly, the salaries of other pastors have to be paid. So many other things. We depend on the money from the people. Jesus: The need does not justify the means. In other words, just because you have all these debts does not give you the right to twist and manipulate scripture and cause people to give under fear of being cursed by God to meet your needs. Not to mention that all those items you listed are problems you created for yourelves. They are not My agenda. You were pursuing your agenda. Jesus: Now to the more greivous consequences of your enforcing the tithe on believer. What did Paul write in Galatians 5:4 about attempting to follow the Law? Pastor Enoch: That if they obeyed any part of the old Jewish law, including the law of circumcision, in order to be right (justified) with God, they have fallen from grace, or lost their salvation. Jesus: Do you admit that like circumcision, tithing was part of the law? Pastor Enoch: Yes, sir. Jesus: Now if obeying the law of circumcision would cause gentile Christians of Paul’s day to “fall from grace”, one would have to conclude that obeying another old law; “The law of tithing” would have the same results on them today; that is to say, it will cause them to fall away from the grace of God. Pastor Enoch: [Swallows hard] I suppose so. Jesus: In other words, you are admitting that your teaching the tithe is actually sending people down the road to hell? Pastor Enoch: That was not what I intended, sir. Jesus: Nevertheless, that is the result of your actions – your ministry. How many of those one billion members (not counting the non-members who heard you and believed you) do you suppose have been turned aside unknowingly this way? Pastor Enoch: [Swallows hard] I have no idea, sir. Pastor Enoch: I never realized all these things, I have always been taught that we had to tithe money to the local church and that is what I have always taught. Yes I am guilty. I will not teach this error anymore. Infact, I will go and take my words back. As many people as possible must hear this. THE END I have given the narration a good ending. I hope that someone close to Mr. Adeboye loves him enough and has enough balls to bring this issue to his attention. You will be saving not only his soul but the souls of millions of others who believe his grace-defying, grace-denying doctrine of tithing. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Credits: This narration was crafted and adapted from my previous article, Believers are not subject to the Tithe, and from materials put up at http://tithing.christian-things.com/articles.html ---------------------- Source:Pressing for the Crown |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by smallman1: 7:31pm On Jul 15, 2010 |
hmmmmmmmmm. 1cor 9:16. God loves a cheerful giver. the tithing mentioned in the bible is not said to be every month. so the tithing of today is not completely based on the bible. its just a way for some churches to get regular income. the best thing for me and from what i see in the bible is to give as much as you can at all times so long so you have it. luv, small man. |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by Image123(m): 8:43pm On Jul 15, 2010 |
Regurgitation is supposed to be peculiar to ruminants, why does this keep coming up? What bites you so with 10% when you lay claims to giving 100%, hypocrites. |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by ogajim(m): 12:29pm On Jul 16, 2010 |
^^^ And someone proclaimed you a "high priest" enough to call Christians "hypocrites  Stay off the bottle dude! The issue has been settled for a lot of Christians here on NL and elsewhere. small man: Great point. |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by bigfather(m): 9:13am On Jul 18, 2010 |
anonimi: So what has this got to do with Pastor Adeboye ? |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by anonimi: 1:03pm On Jul 18, 2010 |
Image123: I am sure you know that God is not found in churches neither is any pastor equal to God. So when one says he is giving to God as a Christian he is following Christ's words here in [url=http://www.christnotes.org/bible.php?q=Matthew+25%3A+34-40&ver=kjv]Matthew 25[/url]: 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 unclothed, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or unclothed, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by Image123(m): 11:41pm On Jul 18, 2010 |
God is not found in church ko. How this guys just mistalk is ridiculous. What's more ludicrous is when they're welcomed with an embrace by 'those who ought to know better', simply because they don't support tithe. Life is more than tithe, gangs and cliques against pro.tithers will not change God's Word/standard. Though hand join in hand, . . . FYI, the church is the body of Christ, it's absurd to say that God is not found in it(both local and universal). He's supposed to be omnipresent btw. Also, the matthew scripture quoted refers to BRETHREN(the body of Christ), not some bunch of almangris(no hard feelings meant to them). |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by Joagbaje(m): 9:18am On Jul 19, 2010 |
Tithe and offerings were the primary way the full time ministers were supported. Because God forbade them from working. 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live[ of the things] of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. Part of the thithes and offerings goes to the work of ministry and part goes to the welfare of ministers. |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by ttalks(m): 9:53am On Jul 19, 2010 |
Image123: image123, You're not being honest with the bold part above. The brethren Christ refered to covers both those of the household of God and also those that do not belong. The point that was trying to be passed across by anonimi is that giving to God is reflected or carried out when we give to those who are in need; whether in the church or outside it.Or will you call a member of the family of Christ(church) a stranger as depicted by the passage? Isn't it an outsider or unknown person that the term stranger should be applied? Our helping or being good to people is not limited only to those in the church; it includes everybody. The only difference is that those of the church get priority; meaning, them first before the others. That's the point pushed by these verses below: Gal 6:9-10 (9) And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. (10) As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith. And we know that giving to meet needs is doing good, right? |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by Image123(m): 4:17pm On Jul 19, 2010 |
^i find no fault with your post above. But truth remains that anonimi feels God is not to be found in church, and his ilk usually imply that it's better to give to beggars than to give in church, unlike what you've stated above. But i'm still not fully agreed with you that Jesus' my brethren refers to just anybody. BTW, how many hallmageriis have you personally taken in so far? |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by ttalks(m): 3:48pm On Jul 20, 2010 |
Image123: I do not get why you and some others think when people here mention giving to the poor; you assume it to be exclusively beggars on the street/almageris. When people like anonimi or myself make mention of giving to the poor, we refer to anybody who doesn't have enough to live by or survive on at a particular point in time. It could be a guy with a job, but is currently broke for a certain period. It could be a member of one's church congregation that doesn't have enough money to settle his school fees. It could be a guy whose ATM card got swallowed up by the ATM machine on a saturday morning when banks do not open to service his cash needs. It could be your pastor who might be broke at the moment and needs money to handle a situation at hand. It could be somebody who never has at any point in time due to some unfortunate situation in his/her life. It could be somebody who needs a ride due to insufficient transport fare. It could also be the allmangeris that you mentioned(although most of them ought to be doing something else). It's not all about money though: It could also be somebody who needs help with an assignment. It could somebody who just needs a bit of your time on a problem he/she is facing. It could be someone who needs advice on what to do. I personally do not use the term "giving to the poor"; rather I prefer to use "giving to those in need"; . . . .that cuts across any category of persons in this life. And besides, you should know that it does happen on this forum that the word "church" is used interchangeably by different people to mean either the body of Christ or the building where people are with the aim of worshipping God. So, I do not think your assumption about anonimi is justified. |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by anonimi: 9:35pm On Jul 20, 2010 |
Image123: i am sure you are not opposing Christ's words in [url=http://www.christnotes.org/bible.php?q=john+4%3A7-26&ver=kjv]John 4: 7-26[/url] particularly verses: 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Image123: Just wondering if [url=http://www.christnotes.org/bible.php?q=Acts+4%3A32-37&ver=kjv]Acts4:32-37[/url] is contained in your Bible or you have chosen not to read or remember it. For your benefit, see in particular verses: 34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. do you think beggars and almajiris were those to whom "distribution was made"  compare and contrast with what happens with modern day "representatives of Christ" who find all means to get people into their churches to worship their god. |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by Image123(m): 1:59am On Jul 21, 2010 |
ttalks Your points are well-noted and accepted, and will be remembered in mi paradix. But they are your points, not anonimi's as you may notice. Now, off to that twin regurgitation. |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by ttalks(m): 7:18am On Jul 21, 2010 |
Unfortunately, image123, I think you're not seeing this thing clearly and are being hasty in ur judgement. If you look closely,anonimi made use of the word "churches" when he said God isn't found therein. Now, we ought to know that there is a difference between the church and churches. The church which is one body is the body of Christ;made up of christians the world over. When it becomes plural a.k.a "churches",you should know it is in reference to places/buildings/spots where people go to/gather to "worship", and not the church. So,there is a difference which u failed to pick up or discern before u concluded. This is in line with the verse he quoted refering to "the place where men ought to worship". |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by anonimi: 9:41am On Jul 21, 2010 |
ttalks: thanks for the above elucidation and reiteration of what Christ said plainly and simply to the samarritan woman in John 4. ttalks: i hope that the bold part is really true and not that he is motivated by the filthy lucre gains from misleading christians for which there is certainly consequences- sooner or later. Truly i hope. |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by KunleOshob(m): 9:56am On Jul 21, 2010 |
@Image The verses below shd help lift you out of your ignorance(that is if you would rather believe the bible than mere men) Acts 7:48-49 But the most high God does not live in houses built by men; as the prophet says 49 heaven is my throne, says the lord, and the earth is my footstool. What kind of house would you build for me? Where is the place for me to live in? Acts 17:24-25 God who made the world and evertthing in it is lord of the heaven and earth and does not live in man made temples. 25 nor does he need anything we can supply by working for him, since he is the one who gives the life and breath and everything else to everyone. ^^^ Of course if brethen understood the the implication of the above scriptures all those endless church building funds and giving tithes to "God" would come to a screeching halt so the clergy like image would rather keep the laity in the dark and continue fleecing them. |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by Image123(m): 10:38am On Jul 21, 2010 |
You can't honestly say that the statement 'God is not found in church(es)' is equal to OR the same meaning as the statement 'God does not live in temple/church'. God is omnipresent. Implying that one wouldn't find God anywhere close to a church building is not the truth. He it is that walks in the MIDST OF the golden candlesticks, and the golden candlesticks refer to the church locations. |
| Re: The Truth About Tithing by NOWORRIES: 4:17pm On Jul 22, 2010 |
is for you to start pating your tithes stop robbing God |
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