Master: "Does God exist"?

Disciple: "Yes"

Master: "Wrong"

Disciple: "No"

Master: "Wrong again"

Disciple: "What's the answer?"

Master: "There is no answer".

Disciple:"Why ever not"?

Master: "Because[b] there is no question[/b]. If you[b] cannot say anything[/b] about Him who is beyond [/b]thoughts and words, [b]how can you ask anything about Him"?

[size=13pt]^{Funny Skeptical joke lol} [/size]

imhotep:

Master: "Does God exist"?

Disciple: "Yes"

Master: "Wrong"

Disciple: "No"

Master: "Wrong again"

Disciple: "What's the answer?"

Master: "There is no answer".

Disciple:"Why ever not"?

Master: "Because[b] there is no question[/b]. If you[b] cannot say anything[/b] about Him who is beyond [/b]thoughts and words, [b]how can you ask anything about Him"?

Master: "What is it you seek"?

Philosopher: "Life"

Master: "If you are to live, words must die". You are lost and forlorn because you dwell in a world of words. You feed on words, you are satisfied with words when what you need is substance. A menu will not satisfy your hunger. A formula will not slake your thirst".

Philosopher: "I wish to see God".

Master: "You are looking at him right now"

Philosopher: "Then why do I not see him"?

Master: "Why does the eye not see itself. As well ask a knife to cut itself or a tooth to bite itself as ask that God to reveal himself".

Yes. And so does the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny, and Father Christmas. Oh and don't forget the other deities such as the Invisible Pink Unicorn and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

dtw_sola:

Yes. And so does the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny, and Father Christmas. Oh and don't forget the other deities such as the Invisible Pink Unicorn and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Except that God is the Pool of Existence out of which everything draws its being . . .

imhotep:

Except that God is the Pool of Existence out of which everything draws its being . . .

Says who? I kinda agree with that, but I think it's yet another guess that just seems to make some sense.

God may just be some word/idea that most people work out a meaning, that works for them, to.

imhotep:

Except that God is the Pool of Existence out of which everything draws its being . . .

I scratch my hairless head and wonder what the hell the above means. More meaningless noise!!!
The absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

Zodiac61:


I scratch my hairless head and wonder what the hell the above means. More meaningless noise!!!
The absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

Yes, an elephant will sooner fit into the shoes of a rat, than God into our NOTIONS of Him . . .

imhotep:

Yes, an elephant will sooner fit into the shoes of a rat, than God into our NOTIONS of Him . . .

Why did the chicken cross the road?

imhotep:

Master: "What is it you seek"?

Philosopher: "Life"

Master: "If you are to live, words must die". You are lost and forlorn because you dwell in a world of words. You feed on words, you are satisfied with words when what you need is substance. A menu will not satisfy your hunger. A formula will not slake your thirst".

why must these be expressed in words when "words must die". I take it you commit the same mistake every believer does by attempting to use logic itself to express what is purportedly unaccessible to logic. Just so you know, words are the only things which exist; because they exist they have consequences arising from propositions. However not entirely every proposition is valid. One of such is "God exists".

Again, one of such would also be "I am sitting on my legs"!

sauer:

why must these be expressed in words when "words must die".

For words to die, they must first of all be ALIVE. You start with words, and then you TRANSCEND words . . .

imhotep:

For words to die, they must first of all be ALIVE. You start with words, and then you TRANSCEND words . . .

transcend words with what? Words again? Come on! About that which we know not of, we must maintain silence. Words will forever keep you stuck. To dwell in the reality of the now, we use the words at our disposal, these being the words of our day. Who doesn't know language is man's greatest enemy?

@sauer

Advocating for the evil one eh? keep it up

sauer:

transcend words with what? Words again? Come on! About that which we know not of, we must maintain silence. Words will forever keep you stuck. To dwell in the reality of the now, we use the words at our disposal, these being the words of our day. Who doesn't know language is man's greatest enemy?

WORDS >>

 The disciples were absorbed in a discussion of Lao Tzu’s dictum:   “Those who know do not say. Those who say do not know.”

 When the Master entered they asked him exactly what the words meant.

 Said the Master, “Which of you knows the fragrance of a rose?”

 All of them knew.

 Then he said. “Put it into words.”

yommyuk:

@sauer

Advocating for the evil one eh? keep it up

Perhaps. But not my intention. I merely seek to bring to the fore the philosophical answers to these questions. It's not my concern what the results may appear to be.

imhotep:

WORDS >>

 The disciples were absorbed in a discussion of Lao Tzu’s dictum:   “Those who know do not say. Those who say do not know.”

 When the Master entered they asked him exactly what the words meant.

 Said the Master, “Which of you knows the fragrance of a rose?”

 All of them knew.

 Then he said. “Put it into words.”

Good. Inexpressible you would expect. But only in those times; perhaps not so in these times. Words mature with centuries and content swells. What we know of presently we say in words, and that's where it ends. Yet, it is possible to express in words scenarios which have no existence, for words by their very consequence create but do not guarantee existence. That I can say something in no way demands that such thing be logical, true or exist. Extend this to god and we have of result, silence!

A simple answer to the question "does God really exist?"

The fact that one could comprehend enough as to question the reason behind the very laws of existence underscore the existence of some intelligence beyond the comprehensions of the empirical. Now, what one may choose to call this intelligence is left to individual idiosyncrasies and persuasions. However, neither these nor any attempt at 'denial' can contradict the fact that life of whatever form or sort is a reaction from some earlier action or series of actions. What were these actions composed of, or rather who effected such action(s)? This should be a question that humans (living up to the claim of being the most intelligent of creation) should make the efforts at really discovering, instead of questioning the reality of an existence which is far superior to any quasi-esoteric experience known to contemporary man.

sauer:

Good. Inexpressible you would expect. But only in those times; perhaps not so in these times. Words mature with centuries and content swells. What we know of presently we say in words, and that's where it ends. Yet, it is possible to express in words scenarios which have no existence, for words by their very consequence create but do not guarantee existence.

Fine. Then, please put down the fragrance of your perfume in WORDS [/b]on this forum so that I may [b]perceive [/b]it. . .

sauer:

That I can say something in no way demands that such thing be logical, true or exist.

That I CANNOT SAY ANYTHING about something does not mean that thing does not exist.

sauer:

Extend this to god and we have of result, [b]silence!

A VERY RICH SORT OF SILENCE >>

MASTER [re-phrasing Aristotle]:  "In the quest of God, it would seem better and indeed necessary to give up what is dearest to us".

DISCIPLE:  "I am ready, in the quest for God, to give up anything: wealth, friends, family, country, life itself. What else can a person give up"?


MASTER: "One's beliefs about God".

---------------------------------
The disciple went away sad, for he clung to his convictions about God.

ajadrage:

A simple answer to the question "does God really exist?"

The fact that one could comprehend enough as to question the reason behind the very laws of existence underscore the existence of some intelligence beyond the comprehensions of the empirical. Now, what one may choose to call this intelligence is left to individual idiosyncrasies and persuasions. However, neither these nor any attempt at 'denial' can contradict the fact that life of whatever form or sort is a reaction from some earlier action or series of actions. What were these actions composed of, or rather who effected such action(s)? This should be a question that humans (living up to the claim of being the most intelligent of creation) should make the efforts at really discovering, instead of questioning the reality of an existence which is far superior to any quasi-esoteric experience known to contemporary man.

your argument is not at all new. Aquinas argued from the same standpoint. But this is necessary flawed. You can count your "earlier action or series of actions" continuously backwards, ad infinitum if you like, without arriving at a conclusion. There is indeed every reason to do this. Why again, as some others ask, can we not substitute in any of those processes a causal, unintended and lifeless accidental or alien process, which again might make rubbish of your argument?
Just so you know for keeps, the reasons why we ask such questions and seek to know the underlying reasons for existence is not because we are so smart. No not at all. Rather, it is because we have language and language, by default, is able to create both unnecessary and necessary questions. Our job for the present is to make efforts to tell the difference between these two and not fall into a cycle of repeated questioning.

imhotep:

Fine. Then, please put down the fragrance of your perfume in WORDS [/b]on this forum so that I may [b]perceive [/b]it. . .

That I CANNOT SAY ANYTHING about something does not mean that thing does not exist.

[b]A VERY RICH SORT OF SILENCE >>

MASTER [re-phrasing Aristotle]:  "In the quest of God, it would seem better and indeed necessary to give up what is dearest to us".

DISCIPLE:  "I am ready, in the quest for God, to give up anything: wealth, friends, family, country, life itself. What else can a person give up"?


MASTER: "One's beliefs about God".

---------------------------------
The disciple went away sad, for he clung to his convictions about God.

And didn't I expect that from you? Know now, that just as that fragrance can't be created merely by expressing it, the same "rose" you wrote about cannot also be created, forget its fragrance now. That we write something does not necessarily mean we have created it. Why mystify the rose's fragrance and leave the rose itself?
am fairly certain great writers of the 20th century such as D.H. Lawrence can do a fairly good job of describing both such that they may come alive for a few.
that said, if something exists truely, you most certainly can say something about it and well too. Language exists for such jobs/

It's my realization that gods cannot be expressed by the language (or words) of today, so on this topic we should all assume no knowledge and keep silent. For what the future holds, I cannot say