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What Are The Problems Of the Theistic Position? - Religion (4) - Nairaland

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What Are The Problems Of An Atheistic Position? / Funny Theistic Responses / Top 10 condescending theistic phrases (2) (3) (4)

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Re: What Are The Problems Of the Theistic Position? by HellVictorinho(m): 7:14pm On Jan 07
johnydon22:
I didn't assume anything
But you believe in transcendent beings
Yet,the other 'Forms of Existence' apart from the 'Universe' are just matter.
Anyways,Man is matter as well.
If spirits exist,they must be jobless.
As a human, you might wish to have one(afterlife desire).
But what would my spirit be doing as a human spirit that can still remember how he used to be?
Would it enjoy spiritual rice?
Re: What Are The Problems Of the Theistic Position? by johnydon22(m): 8:07pm On Jan 07
HellVictorinho:

But you believe in transcendent beings
Yet,the other 'Forms of Existence' apart from the 'Universe' are just matter.
Anyways,Man is matter as well.
If spirits exist,they must be jobless.
As a human, you might wish to have one(afterlife desire).
But what would my spirit be doing as a human spirit that can still remember how he used to be?
Would it enjoy spiritual rice?
No. I didn't imply that i believe in transcendent beings too.
Re: What Are The Problems Of the Theistic Position? by HellVictorinho(m): 8:34pm On Jan 07
johnydon22:
No. I didn't imply that i believe in transcendent beings too.
Wow,you are defending something you don't believe in an argument (with Lord Reed).
I love that. cheesy
Re: What Are The Problems Of the Theistic Position? by Hermes019: 8:38pm On Jan 07
johnydon22:
Actually No. It still won't be. A 4dimensional being interacting in our 3D realm would be so inconsistent with our reality that we won't even be able describe it. no transcendent being can be consistent with the reality of a dimension it transcends.
I do agree and I hold the view that if there is anything that really influenced the existence of the universe,it would be something we would totally not understand
Re: What Are The Problems Of the Theistic Position? by Hermes019: 8:43pm On Jan 07
XxSabrinaxX:

Well, these are my problems with the theistic position and why I find the concept of "God" illogical.
* Something being allpowerful can't exist as it leads to contradictions. Eg. can this being create something that violates the laws of logic, can it kill itself, can it create something more powerful than himself, can it create something so heavy he can't lift himself, ... ?
* Allknowing & free will can't exist together, because if this god already knows everything then it logically follows one can't actually choose anything anymore to change this plan. The max you'd get is the illusion of free will.
* I also never understood how one can think an all-loving god and satan can exist at the same time either. Is this god not powerful enough to stop satan or if he is and won't do it, then clearly he isn't all-loving? Am I missing something here?
* More often than not, people use god to "explain" the origin of the universe because their objection is something can't come from nothing and / or something must have had a beginning. However this same logic doesn't apply to god because it's outside of time. But "cause and effect" only make sense when you have time, so I don't get how a god solves this whatsoever. It's like the number 5 also exists outside of space and time as a concept, yet that can't cause anything either...
* Also things like the speed of light being the max speed is only correct INSIDE our universe, the expansion of the universe itself is faster than this speed, so where I'm getting at here is it's not because things follow the laws of physics inside our universe that the universe itself is bound by those laws. Eg. Just because in our universe we see everything having a beginning that therefore this logic also applies to the universe itself, as we only have a sample size of 1 universe and moreover we don't even know if this always existed in some form.
* Last thing: the argument from fine-tuning I either don't understand or I find it the worst possible argument ever. What would be a miracle is if we'd find ourselfs in a universe that ISN'T able for life to be formed. How is it a shock to find ourselfs in a universe where life can form?? And maybe there were / are loads of universes out there where life isn't able to be formed, and thus we aren't "insanely lucky" as there are plenty of other possibilities. Also nearly all of the universe seems hostile to life, so how can one possibly think it's created FOR life when even on earth most places are insanely hostile. A universe created for life would be one where life can exist almost everywhere and for a really long time, yet that's exactly what we don't see.
Bravo
And let me add that anyone who has studied cosmology or astrophysics would understand that most humans don't understand anything about the universe and how it functions,so it beats my imagination when people start filling the gaps with concepts they make on their own,"The universe can not come out of nothing",very funny,what do they know about the universe ?

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Re: What Are The Problems Of the Theistic Position? by vaxx: 8:49pm On Jan 07
Hermes019:

Bravo
And let me add that anyone who has studied cosmology or astrophysics would understand that most humans don't understand anything about the universe and how it functions,so it beats my imagination when people start filling the gaps with concepts they make on their own,"The universe can not come out of nothing",very funny,what do they know about the universe ?
Hope you are not suggesting the universe come out of nothing?
Re: What Are The Problems Of the Theistic Position? by johnydon22(m): 8:58pm On Jan 07
HellVictorinho:

Wow,you are defending something you don't believe in an argument (with Lord Reed).
I love that. cheesy
wow
Re: What Are The Problems Of the Theistic Position? by LordReed(m): 9:09pm On Jan 07
HellVictorinho:

How about 5dimensional beings?

Same thing, we'll only experience 3dimensions.
Re: What Are The Problems Of the Theistic Position? by Hermes019: 10:48pm On Jan 07
vaxx:
Hope you are not suggesting the universe come out of nothing?
I am saying that we have not figured out the universe yet let alone deciding how it came into being
Re: What Are The Problems Of the Theistic Position? by vaxx: 8:50am On Jan 08
Hermes019:

I am saying that we have not figured out the universe yet let alone deciding how it came into being
but we can deducrively and inductively answer it even if comprehensive dettails is not yet available now. the universe cannot come into existence from literally nothing. Nothing in philosophical terms is not anything, it has no existence or properties. From nothing, nothing comes—ex nihilo nihil fit. The modern physicists will say that the universe came into being through a ‘nothing’ which is a quantum vacuum. The problem with this view is that of course a quantum vacuum is not nothing at all, it is very clearly something. A quantum vacuum has properties, it can be described, simply put it is.
Re: What Are The Problems Of the Theistic Position? by Hermes019: 9:19am On Jan 08
vaxx:
but we can deducrively and inductively answer it even if comprehensive dettails is not yet available now. the universe cannot come into existence from literally nothing. Nothing in philosophical terms is not anything, it has no existence or properties. From nothing, nothing comes—ex nihilo nihil fit. The modern physicists will say that the universe came into being through a ‘nothing’ which is a quantum vacuum. The problem with this view is that of course a quantum vacuum is not nothing at all, it is very clearly something. A quantum vacuum has properties, it can be described, simply put it is.
It seems u have figured the whole sh!t out,can you tell us ur own view and how you came about it
Re: What Are The Problems Of the Theistic Position? by vaxx: 9:39am On Jan 08
Hermes019:

It seems u have figured the whole sh!t out,can you tell us ur own view and how you came about it
nah, i have deductive and inductively explained why it is impossible. What i did here is raised an inteligent hypothesis, or can you contradict it.
Re: What Are The Problems Of the Theistic Position? by Hermes019: 11:38am On Jan 08
vaxx:
nah, i have deductive and inductively explained why it is impossible. What i did here is raised an inteligent hypothesis, or can you contradict it.
So ur view is that it is impossible to figure out how the universe came to be ?
Re: What Are The Problems Of the Theistic Position? by HellVictorinho(m): 11:46am On Jan 08
Hermes019:

It seems u have figured the whole sh!t out,can you tell us ur own view and how you came about it
Check out my topic 'Timing of Existence' and discover what you are searching for.
E=KA.
Re: What Are The Problems Of the Theistic Position? by vaxx: 12:23pm On Jan 08
Hermes019:

So ur view is that it is impossible to figure out how the universe came to be ?
my veiw is ex nihilo nihil fit. (Nothing comes from nothing)empirically not of such exist in our universe, and if past experience is grounded source of knolwedge. Same its applicable.
Re: What Are The Problems Of the Theistic Position? by HellVictorinho(m): 12:36pm On Jan 08
vaxx:
my veiw is ex nihilo nihil fit. (Nothing comes from nothing)empirically not of such exist in our universe, and ig past experience is grounded source of knolwedge. Same its applicable.
E=KA.
But I find you more interesting than before.
Re: What Are The Problems Of the Theistic Position? by Hermes019: 12:51pm On Jan 08
vaxx:
my veiw is ex nihilo nihil fit. (Nothing comes from nothing)empirically not of such exist in our universe, and ig past experience is grounded source of knolwedge. Same its applicable.
Isn't that a contradiction to ur theistic position that something(God) created the universe,can't we say the same of God since according to you NOTHING comes from nothing
Re: What Are The Problems Of the Theistic Position? by HellVictorinho(m): 2:13pm On Jan 08
Hermes019:

Isn't that a contradiction to ur theistic position that something(God) created the universe,can't we say the same of God since according to you NOTHING comes from nothing
E=KA.

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