₦airaland Forum

Welcome, Guest: Join Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 2,163,315 members, 4,713,646 topics. Date: Wednesday, 23 January 2019 at 10:46 AM

How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion - Religion (4) - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion (1123 Views)

Question: Was There Any One Saved Before The Death Of Jesus? Ans: Yes / Before Christ, See The Name People Been Praying With? / How Were People Saved Before Jesus Died For Our Sins? (2) (3) (4)

(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (Reply) (Go Down)

Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by Ranchhoddas(m): 9:58am On Jan 11
MuttleyLaff:
Not hearsay, but biblical examples written in black and white and also red and white.
Trust me if you dont now and/or before you move on, you will never and wont ever accept Him, it's your nature, your nature will fight against that

Exactly and it is because you're by nature a Christophobic or Christ destructionist.
It is because of that doubt that possible has difficulting with in happening. You'll rather go to the dark abyss and lake of fire that personally acknowledge Jesus as Lord and Saviour. You wont take advantage of the free legal aid and have Him advocate for you. Wont have Him represent you and make pleadings on your behalf, as per the circumstances for your every thought, deed and action. You'll rather represent yourself instead of have Him mitigate for you.
cc Hermes019, frosbel2, Ihedinobi3
Tell me exactly...
How is my doubt unreasonable?
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by MuttleyLaff: 10:05am On Jan 11
Ranchhoddas:
Tell me exactly...
How is my doubt unreasonable?
It is nothing personal. It is who you are, it is your nature, it is in your nature to romanticise the doubt. It is your choice. It is your freewill to exercise. Note you used and introduced the word "unreasonable", I didnt.
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by Originakalokalo(m): 10:06am On Jan 11
@ muttleylaff,

If I say a word or statement that is not biblical, I expect anyone to challenge and call me to order..

The owner of the message is greater than the messenger. God is greater than us all.

You made a statement and I disagree. That has nothing to do with putting out someone's candle light....

There is no candle anywhere here...we all are teachers of the world of GOD. We should fear before him and take caution.

When Paul confronted Peter, he only corrected him.. he didn't take his place....

The most dangerous thing to do is to feed the weak with principles that are not of God...

Saying that Jesus can advocate for anyone before and after death, even someone who rejected him while alive, is wrong.

Our God is not a respecter of persons.... and he is a consuming fire.

Mysteries that cannot be understood should be left as it is. ....

I reached a conclusion . and told ihedinobi3 that it was a theory because I couldn't find its base in the scriptures.. I just wanted to be on the side of caution...

A theory could be right or wrong.. We are not just certain. ..

This place is not a battle ground nor a place to show off. It is a faceless forum and we don't know who is behind the keyboard that we type from.

Jesus is Lord.
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by MuttleyLaff: 10:21am On Jan 11
Originakalokalo:
@ muttleylaff,

If I say a word or statement that is not biblical, I expect anyone to challenge and call me to order..

The owner of the message is greater than the messenger. God is greater than us all.

You made a statement and I disagree. That has nothing to do with putting out someone's candle light....

There is no candle anywhere here...we all are teachers of the world of GOD. We should fear before him and take caution.

When Paul confronted Peter, he only corrected him.. he didn't take his place....

The most dangerous thing to do is to feed the weak with principles that are not of God...

Saying that Jesus can advocate for anyone before and after death, even someone who rejected him while alive, is wrong.

Our God is not a respecter of persons.... and he is a consuming fire.

Mysteries that cannot be understood should be left as it is. ....

I reached a conclusion . and told ihedinobi3 that it was a theory because I couldn't find its base in the scriptures.. I just wanted to be on the side of caution...

A theory could be right or wrong.. We are not just certain. ..

This place is not a battle ground nor a place to show off. It is a faceless forum and we don't know who is behind the keyboard that we type from.

Jesus is Lord.
I am pleased to see that you have calmed down now, before, you were issuing threats, and dishing out intimidating remarks

Originakalokalo, Jesus can advocate for anyone before and after death, even someone who rejected him while alive, just like at the beginning of every other court proceeding, will be advised to take advantage of the "states's" free legal aid, if havent already got a learned counsel. It is called the due process of law.
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by Ranchhoddas(m): 10:21am On Jan 11
MuttleyLaff:
It is nothing personal. It is who you are, it is your nature, it is in your nature to romanticise the doubt. It is your choice. It is your freewill to exercise. Note you used and introduced the word "unreasonable", I didnt.
In other words, you don't really have an answer.
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by MuttleyLaff: 10:23am On Jan 11
Ranchhoddas:
In other words, you don't really have an answer.
The answer has being and is Jesus Christ but the reality and thing is, you are, by nature, a Christophobic and/or Christ destructionist
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by wavylevel: 9:44pm On Jan 11
We could also ask "How did the Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Aboriginals in Australia, Inuits, Native Americans get saved before Christ?"


The Christian doctrine of Salvation is filled with fallacies and inconsistencies.
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by HellVictorinho(m): 7:29am On Jan 12
We should have had enough of this 'Africaneia' talk.
There is nothing positively/negatively unusual about Africans/Blacks....
Nothing logically amazing was happening before Christianity was introduced to Africa .
And,despite the progress that was made educationally when it happened, nothing unusually significant has happened since then.
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by MuttleyLaff: 8:00am On Jan 12
HellVictorinho:
We should have had enough of this 'Africaneia' talk.
There is nothing positively/negatively unusual about Africans/Blacks....
Nothing logically amazing was happening before Christianity was introduced to Africa
And,despite the progress that was made educationally when it happened, nothing unusually significant has happened since then.
People's history are rewritten by their conquerors
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by HellVictorinho(m): 8:03am On Jan 12
MuttleyLaff:
People's history are rewritten by their conquerors
Are you implying that Africa was an Utopian State,then?
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by MuttleyLaff: 8:09am On Jan 12
HellVictorinho:
Are you implying that Africa was an Utopian State, then?
Possibly but please give me an example of a non-African Utopia state and what the criteria for being an Utopia state are
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by HellVictorinho(m): 8:34am On Jan 12
MuttleyLaff:
Possibly but please give me an example of a non-African Utopia state and what the criteria for being an Utopia state are
Utopia is not real and I don't think there is anything that is logically and fundamentally amazing about any state whatsoever.
All human societies are just as developed as they would always be considering what they have done in the past(including yesterday) ,what they are doing now(including today)and what they are planning to do in the nearest future(including tomorrow).
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by MuttleyLaff: 9:16am On Jan 12
HellVictorinho:
Utopia is not real and I don't think there is anything that is logically and fundamentally amazing about any state whatsoever
I never for once thought utopia was real, but you for reasons best known to you brought up the talk utopia.
It doesnt matter anymore because you've essentially dropped toying with it

HellVictorinho:
All human societies are just as developed as they would always be considering what they have done in the past (including yesterday), what they are doing now (including today) and what they are planning to do in the nearest future (including tomorrow)
That from the beginning was the selling point, you will be gods, you will be judging from your experiences what is good what is bad, what is pleasure, what is pain, what is sweet, what is bitter, what hard, what is easy, what is cold, what is hot etcetera. Need I go on, need I say more, no, because I think you are becoming to get the drift now
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by Ihedinobi3: 10:04pm On Jan 12
MuttleyLaff:
Ihedinobi3, with the utmost respect to you, please, as a matter of urgency, reply to the following:

1/ Are you able to produce where and when I said "after death it is still possible to be saved if one was not saved during their lifetime"?
It was an inference from what you said. The idea that the Lord Jesus would play advocate for anyone who wishes it after death does suggest that if anyone were willing after death to be advocated for by Him, they would be. That does not fit with anything I know in the Bible. Do you have scriptural support for it?


MuttleyLaff:
2/ If you are unable to do, which I am sure you wouldnt be able to, will you please admit it as an allegation and retract it?
If it was a wrong inference, then I am very sorry to make it.


MuttleyLaff:
3/ 9“As I looked, thrones were placed, and the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His clothing was white as snow, and the hair of His head like pure wool;
His throne was fiery flames; its wheels were burning fire.
10A stream of fire issued and came out from before Him;
a thousand thousands served Him, and ten thousand times ten thousand
stood before Him; the court sat in judgment, and the books were opened
- Daniel 7:9-10
Why couldnt and/or wouldnt you ask for explanation or clarifications on what I wrote about, concerning the access to & offer of free legal aid in?
I'm not sure what to answer here. Your post seemed obvious in its meaning. If I mistook it, then I am sorry to have done but perhaps you could have been clearer.

Here again, it is not clear to me how this Bible passage has anything to do with what you said.


MuttleyLaff:
4/ Do you accept and agree, that after death and the appointed time, there will be a court hearing at all?
Not in the manner that it seems to me that you believe that there will be. I fully expect the Lord Jesus to judge the Church at His Second Advent, and the Cohort of Millennial Believers and all unbelievers at the end of History at the Judgment of the Great White Throne. I fully expect that everyone called before Him will be given an opportunity to offer a defense or ask questions and that He will answer every question and every defense. But He will not advocate for anybody at all. Today is when He intercedes for us, that is, believers, not unbelievers. Not at the Judgment Day.


MuttleyLaff:
5/ Do you accept and agree, that, in judicial proceedings, that could end up taking away one's life or liberty, the due process of law, is a principle that a person cannot be denied the opportunity to appropriate legal procedures and safeguards nor be deprived of access to competent legal representation?
I have no doubt that some human courts work that way.


MuttleyLaff:
6/ Do you think Christophobics or Christ destructionists, really would take avail of God's free legal aid?
I don't know of any such aid from the Bible so I cannot have an opinion of what such people would do either way.


MuttleyLaff:
7/ Even though this was when he was still alive, do you see King Agrippa, as a very good case in point of #6 above?
I'm not sure I understand. King Agrippa rejected the Gospel when he heard it from Paul. We don't know if he later went on to accept it or not. But I see nothing here that has to do with any free legal aid at the Judgment.


MuttleyLaff:
8/ Do you agree and accept, that God's free legal aid though it will be given the cold-shoulder by Christophobics or Christ destructionists, is as it were, fulfilling all righteousness?
As I said, I don't know of any place where the Bible teaches that God offers any kind of free legal aid at the Judgment.


MuttleyLaff:
9/ Do you accept and agree that Jesus Christ is the best Lawyer, (SAN) Senior Advocate Numero Uno anyone can have to represent them?
I know that He is going to judge the whole world, first the Church, then the Millennial Believers and finally all unbelievers. I know of no Bible passage that teaches that He is any kind of lawyer.


MuttleyLaff:
10/ Do you agree and accept that Christophobics or Christ destructionists just like every one else is entitled to have access to and be represented by a Good Lawyer?
Please refer to my previous answers.


MuttleyLaff:
11/ Do you believe your great great grandfather had the opportunity of the knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Gospel preached to?
I am absolutely certain that if he ever desired it, the opportunity would have been given to him.


MuttleyLaff:
"And inasmuch as it is apportioned to men to die once, and after this, judgment"
- Hebrews 9:27

Ihedinobi3, dont mind Originakalokalo, he was just going about snorting, huffing and puffing, as if like a garage bus conductor tout doing gra-gra and turning the bible on its head with his nauseating prooftexts. Did you notice how he prevaricated replying to my two simple questions exactly the way I asked them? I asked him specifically, about the fate of his great great grandfather, which is like roughly around 160 years ago, as in a 4 generations period but he beat around the bush with an utterly absurd or ridiculous reply that "... if an Ethiopian eunuch got to know about Jesus as early as that, my great great and greatest grandfather heard about Jesus. ....If they refused to believe in him. They go to hell. If you are alive now, you have heard the gospel. If you believe you are saved. If you die in sin, and unbelieve, you go to hell..". SMH. Who asked him about his "... great great and greatest grandfather". Would believe and somebody liked the chucklesome remark.
I do understand that he is not often an easy person to discuss with but I do not share your sentiments about him. We all make mistakes. As a matter of fact, we all make lots of mistakes all the time. And anyone with a zeal for God's Truth should be encouraged in it not scolded with such vehemence for their errors.


MuttleyLaff:
I was so pleased Ihedinobi3, seeing and read you mentioning Hebrews 9:27 in your post above, and that's why I have quoted and pasted it above
Now I am going to ask you the same questions I previously asked Originakalokalo which he found a way of not answering, they are slightly edited though
1/ What is the fate of your great great grandfather, who never had the opportunity of the knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Gospel preached?
I already answered a version of this question above. If he never believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, whether as the Promised Messiah or the Given Messiah, he is in hell.


MuttleyLaff:
2/ Since your great great grandfather wasnt preached to, in the grave to by Jesus, do they have or not have the right of access to the best legal aid available, free or not?
As I said, I know of no such legal aid from the Bible. What I do know is that the Gospel was preached to all who had any interest in hearing it. And every human born with a normal intelligence has always possessed a conscience and a clear ability to tell that not only does God exist and is He perfect and just as well, but that we are also very sinful and headed for no good end unless something is done. So, we have the incentive to seek out the Gospel and God's Grace Means to access it. No one has ever lacked either. But not many have sought out the Gospel. No one who ever did was denied it for any reason, however.

2 Likes

Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by MuttleyLaff: 11:26am On Jan 13
Ihedinobi3:
It was an inference from what you said.
I am not surprised you've gone for inference. Conjecturing is a very lazy option the mind revels in embracing. Whenever people dont know the truth of what of I've said, they usually resort to filling in the gaps with conjecture.

Ihedinobi3:
The idea that the Lord Jesus would play advocate for anyone who wishes it after death does suggest that if anyone were willing after death to be advocated for by Him, they would be.
You are misrepresenting and have misunderstood Ihedinobi3. I did not say our Lord Jesus would play advocate for anyone who wishes it after death, what I said is our Lord Jesus would be offered as an Advocate for anyone who wishes it after death. It does not mean, people will avail themselves of this, but means fulfilling all righteousness and following, honoring, respecting and adhering to the due process of law.

The below is an excerpt of me after watching Dantedasz YouTube's Christian Justice video:
"Even at crunch down, like in a court room, as depicted in that YouTube video, you can tell a lot about a person's character from how they act when the chips are down. Case in point, because of Mr Smith's and Mr Clark's chronic and hardened nature, they will rather go to the dark abyss, than lose face by accepting Jesus Christ as Saviour and personally acknowledging Him and having Jesus Christ as a Counsel to represent them. Notice in the YouTube video that Mr Smith and Mr Clark represented themselves. Need I go on? Need I say more?
- by MuttleyLaff: 7:51am On Jan 10

Ihedinobi3:
That does not fit with anything I know in the Bible.
Do you have scriptural support for it?
C'mon Ihedinobi3, do all things you know, fit everytime with what you know in the bible?
Ah, so you now, want to play your "do you have scriptural support for it" card?

Ihedinobi3:
If it was a wrong inference, then I am very sorry to make it.
It's no problem, it down to not knowing about Jesus' "The Lesson of the Lamp"

Ihedinobi3:
I'm not sure what to answer here. Your post seemed obvious in its meaning. If I mistook it, then I am sorry to have done but perhaps you could have been clearer.
"Pay attention, therefore, to how you listen.
Whoever has will be given more, but whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken away from him
"
- Luke 8:18

Ihedinobi3, I can give you a list of other things not stated clearly and in details in the bible but they are a fact and reality. Quite a few things before Jesus explained them with parables and other means of that sort or other similar methods, were actually initially a blur, and werent seen clearly or heard off until His explanations made things clearer and easy to understand.

The introducing and first part of Luke 8:18 above is an acquired skill. It is grace that's increasingly developed over time. The second part though has a strange and frightening eerie tone to it, actually is just cautionary advice, a tip-off or as it were, a word of warning

Ihedinobi3:
Here again, it is not clear to me how this Bible passage has anything to do with what you said.
That passage, with the emboldened and underlines is letting you know, there is a court sitting, and it is one where the full gamut of the rule of law is totally going to be respected and adhered to. This includes, though it will be rejected, still be given the option to free legal aid

Ihedinobi3:
Not in the manner that it seems to me that you believe that there will be. I fully expect the Lord Jesus to judge the Church at His Second Advent, and the Cohort of Millennial Believers and all unbelievers at the end of History at the Judgment of the Great White Throne. I fully expect that everyone called before Him will be given an opportunity to offer a defense or ask questions and that He will answer every question and every defense. But He will not advocate for anybody at all. Today is when He intercedes for us, that is, believers, not unbelievers. Not at the Judgment Day.
What chance do you have offering a defense by yourself? What chance do you have representing yourself Ihedinobi3? Of course Jesus' intercedes for believers daily, but it doesnt mean fulfilling all righteousness and following all the due processes of law will not be honored, respected nor not adhered to Ihedinobi3 on judgement

Ihedinobi3:
I have no doubt that some human courts work that way.
Tell, what some human courts that dont work that way are called or known as?
If allowing everyone to a fair trial and fair legal representation is the standard on earth, are you making arguments that God has a lesser standard to this and so people would not a right to fair trial and option for free legal representation?

Ihedinobi3:
I don't know of any such aid from the Bible so I cannot have an opinion of what such people would do either way.
Fair do's but I will repeating the question slightly changed
Do you think Christophobics or Christ destructionists, really would take avail of a hypothetically speaking God's free legal aid?

Ihedinobi3:
I'm not sure I understand. King Agrippa rejected the Gospel when he heard it from Paul. We don't know if he later went on to accept it or not. But I see nothing here that has to do with any free legal aid at the Judgment.
If King Agrippa's rejection was recorded, dont you think, it is pertinent that it equally is recorded if he later went on to accept it or not.

Whether on earth or in heaven, free legal aid is a fundamental right & human right of the accused, it is not a privilege. Now, the point, all along being made, first with King Agrippa, is that whilst alive, he rejected Jesus, that even wouldnt change after death and because he is aversed to Jesus, he'll never and wont take advantage of the free legal aid and be represented by Jesus

The second, I am not sure whether I typed it in my earlier post, but it has to do with someone this time around that is dead and to show how the free legal aid though available wouldnt be taken up. Look at the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, notice that the rich man at death, still never had the common sense to what to made avail of the free legal aid. It is so close to them and yet so far away from them, it is like something in their nature, is denying them to confess Jesus as Lord and Saviour with their mouths and believe in Him with their hearts.

Ihedinobi3:
As I said, I don't know of any place where the Bible teaches that God offers any kind of free legal aid at the Judgment.
Fair enough

Ihedinobi3:
I know that He is going to judge the whole world, first the Church, then the Millennial Believers and finally all unbelievers. I know of no Bible passage that teaches that He is any kind of lawyer.
I totally emphatise with you for knowing of no Bible passage that teaches that Jesus is any kind of lawyer

Ihedinobi3:
Please refer to my previous answers.
Please just simply respond, as you prevaricated in all your previous answers

Ihedinobi3:
I am absolutely certain that if he ever desired it, the opportunity would have been given to him.
Another prevarication.
Let me put it in perpective for you:
Do you believe your great great grandfather had the opportunity of the knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Gospel preached to?
This would roughly had been around 160 years ago, basing it on a 4 generations gap span, as 40 years is a generation.

Ihedinobi3:
I do understand that he is not often an easy person to discuss with but I do not share your sentiments about him. We all make mistakes. As a matter of fact, we all make lots of mistakes all the time. And anyone with a zeal for God's Truth should be encouraged in it not scolded with such vehemence for their errors.
I am not fazed by mistakes Originakalokalo made or not. Truth never decreases by being shared. The light of the truth can be harsh to the eyes of those that are in the dark of a matter. Originakalokalo should next time not use the "It is a doctrine of the devils I tell you" line etcetera.

Ihedinobi3:
I already answered a version of this question above. If he never believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, whether as the Promised Messiah or the Given Messiah, he is in hell.
I didnt ask you where your great great grandfather is. What I asked about is your great great grandfather's fate, as in, what is the fate of your great great grandfather, who never had the opportunity of the knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Gospel preached? Now, if you say and still insist, he is in hell, then please tell, what criteria and justifications is he in hell for? Make sure you give criteria and justifications that can make him be in another place other than hell

Ihedinobi3:
As I said, I know of no such legal aid from the Bible. What I do know is that the Gospel was preached to all who had any interest in hearing it. And every human born with a normal intelligence has always possessed a conscience and a clear ability to tell that not only does God exist and is He perfect and just as well, but that we are also very sinful and headed for no good end unless something is done. So, we have the incentive to seek out the Gospel and God's Grace Means to access it. No one has ever lacked either. But not many have sought out the Gospel. No one who ever did was denied it for any reason, however.
OK in light of the above lenghty sentence, so why did you in the same above reply to "What is the fate of your great great grandfather, who never had the opportunity of the knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Gospel preached?" question, say that your great great grandfather, who never had the opportunity of the knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Gospel preached is in hell?

Back to the question again but this time, whether you or dont know of no such free legal aid from the Bible, please respond:
Since your great great grandfather wasnt preached to, in the grave to by Jesus, does he have or not have the right of access to the best legal aid available, free or not?
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by IGOJ(m): 12:19pm On Jan 13
I have a question.
What if I don't believe in any Religion whatsoever and I keep a good life with the general Knowledge of Good and Evil. When I die where will I go?
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by MuttleyLaff: 12:46pm On Jan 13
IGOJ:
I have a question.
What if I don't believe in any Religion whatsoever and I keep a good life with the general Knowledge of Good and Evil. When I die where will I go?
The positive impacts you made on other people's lives will be a determining factor of where you'll end up
In the end, its not the number of years in your life that count,
it's the number of lives in your years, you positively affected that count.

The lyrics of this hit song released by Fẹla is deep and laden with meaning: "Omi o lọta o. Water e no get enemy"
There is only one true and pure religion in the world that is without fault(s) - its name is empathy
Just like water, empathy e no get enemy.
cc Ranchhoddas
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by Ranchhoddas(m): 12:55pm On Jan 13
MuttleyLaff:
The positive impacts you made on other people's lives will be a determining factor of where you'll end up
In the end, its not the number of years in your life that count,
it's the number of lives in your years, you positively affected that count.

The lyrics of this hit song released by Fẹla is deep and laden with meaning: "Omi o lọta o. Water e no get enemy"
There is only one true and pure religion in the world that is without fault(s) - its name is empathy
Just like water, empathy e no get enemy.
cc Ranchhoddas
A very romantic sentiment I tell you.

If this is the case na im be say I dey go heaven be that.

I dey sorry for even Christmas fowl wey dem wan kill.

But the question is this:

How do you know this?
Or are you just saying it because it feels right?
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by Originakalokalo(m): 12:58pm On Jan 13
IGOJ:
I have a question.
What if I don't believe in any Religion whatsoever and I keep a good life with the general Knowledge of Good and Evil. When I die where will I go?

Cornelius was good, a just man, who fear God and pray always.

The angel of God appeared to him and told him to send to Peter, so that he can hear the gospel.

Peter came and preached salvation to Cornelius having received instructions too for the same assignment..

Bottom line, The pedigree of Cornelius could not save him...

He needed salvation... In Jesus...

See?

You need Jesus regardless of who you are.

1 Like

Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by Ihedinobi3: 1:28pm On Jan 13
MuttleyLaff:
I am not surprised you've gone for inference. Conjecturing is a very lazy option the mind revels in embracing. Whenever people dont know the truth of what of I've said, they usually resort to filling in the gaps with conjecture.

You are misrepresenting and have misunderstood Ihedinobi3. I did not say our Lord Jesus would play advocate for anyone who wishes it after death, what I said is our Lord Jesus would be offered as an Advocate for anyone who wishes it after death. It does not mean, people will avail themselves of this, but means fulfilling all righteousness and following, honoring, respecting and adhering to the due process of law.

The below is an excerpt of me after watching Dantedasz YouTube's Christian Justice video:
"Even at crunch down, like in a court room, as depicted in that YouTube video, you can tell a lot about a person's character from how they act when the chips are down. Case in point, because of Mr Smith's and Mr Clark's chronic and hardened nature, they will rather go to the dark abyss, than lose face by accepting Jesus Christ as Saviour and personally acknowledging Him and having Jesus Christ as a Counsel to represent them. Notice in the YouTube video that Mr Smith and Mr Clark represented themselves. Need I go on? Need I say more?
- by MuttleyLaff: 7:51am On Jan 10

C'mon Ihedinobi3, do all things you know, fit everytime with what you know in the bible?
Ah, so you now, want to play your "do you have scriptural support for it" card?

It's no problem, it down to not knowing about Jesus' "The Lesson of the Lamp"

"Pay attention, therefore, to how you listen.
Whoever has will be given more, but whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken away from him
"
- Luke 8:18

Ihedinobi3, I can give you a list of other things not stated clearly and in details in the bible but they are a fact and reality. Quite a few things before Jesus explained them with parables and other means of that sort or other similar methods, were actually initially a blur, and werent seen clearly or heard off until His explanations made things clearer and easy to understand.

The introducing and first part of Luke 8:18 above is an acquired skill. It is grace that's increasingly developed over time. The second part though has a strange and frightening eerie tone to it, actually is just cautionary advice, a tip-off or as it were, a word of warning

That passage, with the emboldened and underlines is letting you know, there is a court sitting, and it is one where the full gamut of the rule of law is totally going to be respected and adhered to. This includes, though it will be rejected, still be given the option to free legal aid

What chance do you have offering a defense by yourself? What chance do you have representing yourself Ihedinobi3? Of course Jesus' intercedes for believers daily, but it doesnt mean fulfilling all righteousness and following all the due processes of law will not be honored, respected nor not adhered to Ihedinobi3 on judgement

Tell, what some human courts that dont work that way are called or known as?
If allowing everyone to a fair trial and fair legal representation is the standard on earth, are you making arguments that God has a lesser standard to this and so people would not a right to fair trial and option for free legal representation?

Fair do's but I will repeating the question slightly changed
Do you think Christophobics or Christ destructionists, really would take avail of a hypothetically speaking God's free legal aid?

If King Agrippa's rejection was recorded, dont you think, it is pertinent that it equally is recorded if he later went on to accept it or not.

Whether on earth or in heaven, free legal aid is a fundamental right & human right of the accused, it is not a privilege. Now, the point, all along being made, first with King Agrippa, is that whilst alive, he rejected Jesus, that even wouldnt change after death and because he is aversed to Jesus, he'll never and wont take advantage of the free legal aid and be represented by Jesus

The second, I am not sure whether I typed it in my earlier post, but it has to do with someone this time around that is dead and to show how the free legal aid though available wouldnt be taken up. Look at the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, notice that the rich man at death, still never had the common sense to what to made avail of the free legal aid. It is so close to them and yet so far away from them, it is like something in their nature, is denying them to confess Jesus as Lord and Saviour with their mouths and believe in Him with their hearts.

Fair enough

I totally emphatise with you for knowing of no Bible passage that teaches that Jesus is any kind of lawyer

Please just simply respond, as you prevaricated in all your previous answers

Another prevarication.
Let me put it in perpective for you:
Do you believe your great great grandfather had the opportunity of the knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Gospel preached to?
This would roughly had been around 160 years ago, basing it on a 4 generations gap span, as 40 years is a generation.

I am not fazed by mistakes Originakalokalo made or not. Truth never decreases by being shared. The light of the truth can be harsh to the eyes of those that are in the dark of a matter. Originakalokalo should next time not use the "It is a doctrine of the devils I tell you" line etcetera.

I didnt ask you where your great great grandfather is. What I asked about is your great great grandfather's fate, as in, what is the fate of your great great grandfather, who never had the opportunity of the knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Gospel preached? Now, if you say and still insist, he is in hell, then please tell, what criteria and justifications is he in hell for? Make sure you give criteria and justifications that can make him be in another place other than hell

OK in light of the above lenghty sentence, so why did you in the same above reply to "What is the fate of your great great grandfather, who never had the opportunity of the knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Gospel preached?" question, say that your great great grandfather, who never had the opportunity of the knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Gospel preached is in hell?

Back to the question again but this time, whether you or dont know of no such free legal aid from the Bible, please respond:
Since your great great grandfather wasnt preached to, in the grave to by Jesus, does he have or not have the right of access to the best legal aid available, free or not?
I must beg your pardon. I try to be cordial with atheists, how much more my own brethren. So I am not going to have a blowout with you over this. As I said to Originakalokalo, if you present yourself as a teacher, you are responsible for what you teach. Whenever I interfere, it is always for warning or to avoid association with a teaching that I believe to be wrong so that the wrong signal is not sent to anyone who listens to me.

For now, I will say first that it seems to me that you have mistaken my position on Christ completely. Granted that much that I teach is strange and that when I talk to atheists, I typically do not offer Bible references, I hold firmly to the Bible as my authority. I try to teach ONLY what I believe the Bible to say, nothing more nothing less. The fact though is that most believers today know next to nothing about what the Bible actually teaches, so my teachings will always sound extrabiblical to them.

Second, I answered your questions clearly. I do not prevaricate as a rule. Something else I do not allow myself to do is to get caught in a false dilemma. Your questions followed that line. I don't have to say, "yes, my great-grandfather did have an opportunity to believe the Gospel and never took it" OR "no, he never did" when neither is necessarily the Truth. I don't know if he did or did not. But I know from the Bible that no one has ever lived or will ever live who listens to their conscience and receives the witness of Creation and as a result seeks salvation who never received it through the Gospel. So, if my great-grandfather desired to be saved or even only to know how to be saved without eventually committing to Salvation, I am dead certain that he heard the Gospel. If he didn't, then I cannot be sure that he ever heard it.

Finally, I know that the Judgments that will occur in the end will not be looking for defense of the sort that saves but to allow anyone who thinks that they have an excuse to present it and see that God has been completely righteous in all His dealings with them. I also know that God is not Man and it is foolishness to imagine that because men do a thing, so must He. What will happen the day that Jesus judges the Church and the day that He judges the rest of the world will comprehend the ideal that human courts strive for and exceed it by far.

That is what I believe. I do not begrudge you what you choose to believe. I only encourage you to make sure that it is Scriptural. It is not my place to tell you what you must believe or teach. And while I will accept any reasonable rebuke or correction, I am not responsible to anyone but the Lord Himself for what I believe and teach.

1 Like

Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by hayoholla(m): 2:42pm On Jan 13
MuttleyLaff:
1. Is it not strange that something so important as salvation was delayed for so long
Answer
:
"you cant hurry the harvest" Are you not familiar with that saying?
Salvation delayed, is not salvation denied. Salvation comes and came when due.

so it wasn't due for those born pre Christ era?




4. Did black people who died worshipping idols in those ancient days go to hell fire?
Answer
:
Get your facts right please, because no human being yet, including the black people who died worshipping idols in those ancient days are in "hell fire". Also hell and death ultimately will be thrown into the lake of fire



how do you know, have you been to hell before, who gave you this information.




5. Did the black men who married more than one wife go to hell after death?
Answer
:
You have been misinformed, that's why you keep harping that people go to hell after death. People go to Sheol after death.



Again, I have never seen in bibles that I read, where dead people go to Sheol first. I know what the bible say after death is judgment. Do you not know that? heaven or hell according to your religion.



MAIN QUESTION =
HOW DID THE BLACK MAN GET SAVED BEFORE CHRIST AND WAS THIS METHOD OF SALVATION VALID IN THE EYES OF GOD?
Answer

It's simple, it's by sheer doing pure and true religion that is faultless. Doing pure and true religion that has no fault enhances the prospect albeit the price of the cost of salvation has been paid by Jesus Christ

expound more on this bro.

thank you sire
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by HellVictorinho(m): 3:12pm On Jan 13
MuttleyLaff:
I never for once thought utopia was real, but you for reasons best known to you brought up the talk utopia.
It doesnt matter anymore because you've essentially dropped toying with it

That from the beginning was the selling point, you will be gods, you will be judging from your experiences what is good what is bad, what is pleasure, what is pain, what is sweet, what is bitter, what hard, what is easy, what is cold, what is hot etcetera. Need I go on, need I say more, no, because I think you are becoming to get the drift now
Man is not deity-like.
He is actually a problem unto himself which is not necessarily his fault.
Intelligence is not useful if it creates ten problems for every single one it solves.
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by HellVictorinho(m): 3:12pm On Jan 13
MuttleyLaff:
I never for once thought utopia was real, but you for reasons best known to you brought up the talk utopia.
It doesnt matter anymore because you've essentially dropped toying with it

That from the beginning was the selling point, you will be gods, you will be judging from your experiences what is good what is bad, what is pleasure, what is pain, what is sweet, what is bitter, what hard, what is easy, what is cold, what is hot etcetera. Need I go on, need I say more, no, because I think you are becoming to get the drift now
Man is not deity-like.
He is actually a problem unto himself which is not necessarily his fault.
Intelligence is not useful if it creates ten problems for every single one it solves.
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by MuttleyLaff: 3:19pm On Jan 13
hayoholla:
expound more on this bro.
thank you sire
You have to be specific sire. What exactly do you want more light shed upon hayoholla?
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by MuttleyLaff: 3:19pm On Jan 13
HellVictorinho:
Man is not deity-like.
He is actually a problem unto himself which is not necessarily his fault.
Intelligence is not useful if it creates ten problems for every single one it solves.
Man is not deity-like, man however became a god after eating of the fruit. Man becoming a proble unto himself, was self inflicted, believing that the premature eating of the fruit will give him intelligence
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by MuttleyLaff: 6:17pm On Jan 13
Ihedinobi3:
I must beg your pardon. I try to be cordial with atheists, how much more my own brethren. So I am not going to have a blowout with you over this. As I said to Originakalokalo, if you present yourself as a teacher, you are responsible for what you teach. Whenever I interfere, it is always for warning or to avoid association with a teaching that I believe to be wrong so that the wrong signal is not sent to anyone who listens to me.
I try my best, but as long as a piece of string to be cordial with atheists too. We are NOT having nor going to have a blowout. We are two grown ups, having a healthy dialogue and meaningful conversation, sharing information coming from differing altitudes. I've known more of Originakalokalo now and enough for me to understand and suffer him gladly

Ihedinobi3:
For now, I will say first that it seems to me that you have mistaken my position on Christ completely.
How have I mistaken your position on Christ completely? Please clear me on this

Ihedinobi3:
Granted that much that I teach is strange and that when I talk to atheists, I typically do not offer Bible references, I hold firmly to the Bible as my authority. I try to teach ONLY what I believe the Bible to say, nothing more nothing less. The fact though is that most believers today know next to nothing about what the Bible actually teaches, so my teachings will always sound extrabiblical to them.
"My friends, not many of you should become teachers.
As you know, we teachers will be judged with greater strictness than others.
"
- James 3:1

Well you are the self confessed teacher. I however for very good and obvious James 3:1 above reason, dont parade or profess to be a teacher. I do not teach anybody anything, what I do is put the information out there so as to provoke and make others think. Secondly I don't post information here because I want to convince people who know differently but rather I post to show people who know and are woke, like me that they're not alone

Ihedinobi3:
Second, I answered your questions clearly. I do not prevaricate as a rule. Something else I do not allow myself to do is to get caught in a false dilemma. Your questions followed that line. I don't have to say, "yes, my great-grandfather did have an opportunity to believe the Gospel and never took it" OR "no, he never did" when neither is necessarily the Truth. I don't know if he did or did not. But I know from the Bible that no one has ever lived or will ever live who listens to their conscience and receives the witness of Creation and as a result seeks salvation who never received it through the Gospel. So, if my great-grandfather desired to be saved or even only to know how to be saved without eventually committing to Salvation, I am dead certain that he heard the Gospel. If he didn't, then I cannot be sure that he ever heard it.
There you go again, all potatoes but no meat and again going off on a tangent. Why cant to stick to the contains of the question? If I needed your info on the bible, I would have asked but I didnt, so why trying to take refuge in it. It is a simple, direct and straightforward question about whether or not you believe your great great grandfather had the opportunity of the knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Gospel preached to? This would roughly had been around 160 years ago, basing it on a 4 generations gap span, as 40 years is a generation. There are 3 possible valid answers, which are Yes, No and/or I dont know

Ihedinobi3:
Finally, I know that the Judgments that will occur in the end will not be looking for defense of the sort that saves but to allow anyone who thinks that they have an excuse to present it and see that God has been completely righteous in all His dealings with them. I also know that God is not Man and it is foolishness to imagine that because men do a thing, so must He. What will happen the day that Jesus judges the Church and the day that He judges the rest of the world will comprehend the ideal that human courts strive for and exceed it by far.
I will repeat the question here again, edited to slightly improve on it.
If allowing everyone to a fair trial and fair legal representation is the standard on earth, are you making arguments that God has a lesser standard to this and so people would not have a right to fair trial and option for free legal representation?
Just give a Yes, No and/or I dont know reply

Ihedinobi3:
That is what I believe. I do not begrudge you what you choose to believe. I only encourage you to make sure that it is Scriptural. It is not my place to tell you what you must believe or teach. And while I will accept any reasonable rebuke or correction, I am not responsible to anyone but the Lord Himself for what I believe and teach.
I neither, do not begrudge you what you choose to believe or not believe, I merely am just probing your understanding, so please again, indulge me with these simple direct and straightforward questions:
1/ Is imposed and/or obligatory ecclesiastical monitised tithe giving scriptural?
2/ Is everything you believe in on earth, black and white, red and white in the scripture?
3/ Have you ever personally witnessed a court proceeding from its inception to sentencing?
4/ Do you believe God to be the God of perfect justice and the God of perfect righteousness?
5/ Do you accept and agree there is going to be a prosecutor at judgement?
6/ Do you accept and agree that Jesus is a Lawyer representing pro bono?
7/ Do you believe it is a fair trial allowing anybody to defend and represent themselves instead of an offer or option of having an experienced lawyer approach the bench on their behalf?
8/ Do you accept and agree that the price for sin has been paid for by Jesus Christ?
9/ If your answer to #8 above is Yes, what in the bible, is fundamentally required in order for anyone to qualify to get out of jail free because of what was done in #8 above
10/ Finally, hypothetically speaking, do you think, those who denied, disliked and refused Jesus whilst alive, would if given the chance after death upon being in front of God on judgement, would accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior?
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by MuttleyLaff: 6:18pm On Jan 13
Ranchhoddas:
A very romantic sentiment I tell you
It is reality Ranchhoddas

Ranchhoddas:
If this is the case na im be say I dey go heaven be that.
You possibly might get an in into the kingdom. Time is a snitch, let's not worry, time certainly will tell

Ranchhoddas:
I dey sorry for even Christmas fowl wey dem wan kill.
I dont seem to understand what this "I dey sorry for even Christmas fowl wey dem wan kill" remark. What's that all about please?

Ranchhoddas:
But the question is this:

How do you know this?
You can know this from reading about it in the bible. It's written in red and white Ranchhoddas.

Rachhhoddas, compassion cuts right through Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, New Age, Heathenism, ATR etcetera

Tell Ranchhoddas, do you ever ask about someone's belief or unbelief first, before offering them help or assistance?
Do you ever first, ask about someone's belief or unbelief before extending your compassion to them, especially when in time of need?
Do you ask them first before helping, if they are a buddist, muslim, atheist or ATR practioner? No, I dont think you or anyone with the right thinking does. That is what we all are expected to do, an act like that is pure, true and you cant fault it. It is the religion that gives the person practising it, a free pass into the kingdom

Ranchhoddas:
Or are you just saying it because it feels right?
Reading about it in the bible sure is comforting and certainly makes one feel right

Guess exactly what Ranchhoddas, just like the word "mouse", the word "religion" too has changed its meaning from what it originally was. It has changed from when it used to be about benevolence, thoughtful consideration and generosity for other people in need. Its changed from when it used to be associated with the word compassion
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by Ihedinobi3: 6:37pm On Jan 13
MuttleyLaff:
I try my best, but as long as a piece of string to be cordial with atheists too. We are having nor going to have a blowout. We are two grown ups, having a healthy dialogue and meaningful conversation, sharing information from coming from differing altitudes. I've known more of Originakalokalo now and enough for me to understand and suffer him gladly

How have I mistaken your position on Christ completely? Please clear me on this

"My friends, not many of you should become teachers. As you know, we teachers will be judged with greater strictness than others."
- James 3:1

Well you are the self confessed teacher. I however for very good and obvious James 3:1 above reason, dont parade or profess to be a teacher. I do not teach anybody anything, what I do is put the information out there so as to provoke and make others think. Secondly I don't post information here because I want to convince people who know differently but rather I post to show people who know and are woke, like me that they're not alone

There you go again, all potatoes but no meat and again going off on a tangent. Why cant to stick to the contains of the question? If I needed your info on the bible, I would have asked but I didnt, so why trying to take refuge in it. It is a simple, direct and straightforward question about whether or not you believe your great great grandfather had the opportunity of the knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Gospel preached to? This would roughly had been around 160 years ago, basing it on a 4 generations gap span, as 40 years is a generation. There are 3 possible valid answers, which are Yes, No and/or I dont know

I will repeat the question here again, edited to slightly improve on it.
If allowing everyone to a fair trial and fair legal representation is the standard on earth, are you making arguments that God has a lesser standard to this and so people would not have a right to fair trial and option for free legal representation?
Just give a Yes, No and/or I dont know reply

I neither, do not begrudge you what you choose to believe or not believe, I merely am just probing your understanding, so please again, indulge me with these simple direct and straightforward questions:
1/ Is imposed and/or obligatory ecclesiastical monitised tithe giving scriptural?
2/ Is everything you believe in on earth, black and white, red and white in the scripture?
3/ Have you ever personally witnessed a court proceeding from its inception to sentencing?
4/ Do you believe God to be the God of perfect justice and the God of perfect righteousness?
5/ Do you accept and agree there is going to be a prosecutor at judgement?
6/ Do you accept and agree that Jesus is a Lawyer representing pro bono?
7/ Do you believe it is a fair trial allowing anybody to defend and represent themselves instead of an offer or option of having an experienced lawyer approach the bench on their behalf?
8/ Do you accept and agree that the price for sin has been paid for by Jesus Christ?
9/ If your answer to #8 above is Yes, what in the bible, is fundamentally required in order for anyone to qualify to get out of jail free because of what was done in #8 above
10/ Finally, hypothetically speaking, do you think, those who denied, disliked and refused Jesus whilst alive, would if given the chance after death upon being in front of God on judgement, would accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior?

All right then. I'm afraid I will not continue this conversation with you. I do not believe that it will be fruitful in any respect.
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by MuttleyLaff: 6:52pm On Jan 13
Ihedinobi3:
All right then. I'm afraid I will not continue this conversation with you. I do not believe that it will be fruitful in any respect.
I said We are NOT having nor going to have a blowout. We are two grown ups, having a healthy dialogue and meaningful conversation, sharing information coming from differing altitudes. Asking questions is the source of all knowledge. Common decency and the least you could do is respond to the 10 questions and afterwards then quit if you are afraid in continuing with the conversation with me. Truth crushed to earth is truth still and like a seed will rise again later bearing fruit. Old ways wont open new doors
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by frosbel2(m): 7:06pm On Jan 13
MuttleyLaff:
I said We are NOT having nor going to have a blowout. ...Common decency ......

See who is talking about common decency wink
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by MuttleyLaff: 7:25pm On Jan 13
frosbel2:
See who is talking about common decency wink
Chief, have we had a tiff before together? Or you're just being your usual nosey parker self? Shey mo ba ẹ jadu iyawo pọ ni? Isnt it because I have rivalled you for a wife before ni or what?

We are talking of decency to answer questions first before losing interest in the conversation, and here you are gatecrashing just to poke nose.
Re: How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion by frosbel2(m): 7:53pm On Jan 13
MuttleyLaff:
Chief, have we had a tiff before togerher? Or you're just being your usual nosey parker self? Shey mo ba ẹ jadu iyawo pọ ni? Isnt it because I have rivalled you for a wife before ni or what?

We are talking of decency to answer questions first before losing interest in the conversation, and here you are gatecrashing just to poke nose.

grin

1 Like

(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (Reply)

Thought Provoking Question For Theists / Who Is Making People Eat The Flesh Of Their Children? / The Truth About The Pre-tribulation Rapture - By Holiness Preacher Zac Poonen

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2019 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 508
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.