budaatum:

Not a lot of people like James' "show me you faith and I will show you my work done with faith", many would rather be Paul's "faith with no works". Would God have use for unsalty salt, or a lamp without NEPA? Should your light not shine before others, that they may see your [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A13-16&version=NIV]good deeds[/url] and glorify your Father in heaven? Or is it not by you works, your deeds, that your father in heaven is glorified?

God must have standards and can't, or at least, doesn't, arbitrarily save people with no criteria being fulfilled. In order to receive that so called grace, you must at least fulfil the criteria which is doing the will of God and which is way more than mere believing. And yes, by grace. The grace that you happen to be opportuned to have heard God's word and know what is required of you.

I just don't understand how you could think believing is sufficient since it is clearly written that "even the devil believes"! If one doesn't do God's will despite the grace of having heard the Word, all ones believing will not save you, or you'd be as saved as the devil is saved, which last time I checked was not much saved at all.

budaatum:
20 [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+2%3A20-26&version=NIV]You foolish person[/url], do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

It can't be put much clearer!

budaatum:
Are believers righteous? Is the question you asked.

Perhaps after all we've said, you can give me a simple answer. Yes or no, will do, if you can.

solite3:
read the OP again

budaatum:

Not only have I read your op three times, but I've also been to it's source and read it twice, and if you'd credited that source from the beginning, I perhaps would have understood why you have not been capable of defending what you posted!

Anyway, and with no further ado, here is someones opinion on the subject. Hopefully, it is of one who's opinion you find favour in.

[url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+6%3A46-49&version=NKJV]46[/url] “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? 47 Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like: 48 He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock. 49 But he who heard and did nothing is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream beat vehemently; and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great.”

May the grace of the Lord be ours. And thanks tons for your time.

solite3:


the fact is you are lost but still holding to your filthy morality which has already been decimated by psalm 15 and 24.

budaatum:


[url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+18%3A9-14&version=NIV]14[/url] “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

solite3:

The other sinner whose works where bad was justified before God because he recognized his need of salvation and reach out to God for mercy.

solite3:

The question is, do you recognize you are a sinner who need God's mercy?

budaatuum
So, according to you, it is not his work that got him to the point of "recognising his need of salvation and reach out to God for mercy"?

Was he just walking along the road and recognised, solite3, or did he not first work so he can see?

Actually, I am not a sinner, solite3, though by God's mercy do I resist. When you too work hard at resisting sin you will not be a sinner no more I tell you. But you must work really hard since it's not just going to drop on your head. I mean, think about it, God sacrifices Jesus for your sorry ass then you want God to give you more Grace than that for free? I guess God is so merciful and could do so. But it wouldn't hurt if you attempt to be the salt of the earth while you await God's Grace.

solite3:

@bold really? That means you have never sinned for once in your life.

solite3:

Just like a thief resisting the urge of stealing. It would only serve to prove that he is really a thief, for if he was not a theif he wouldn't have an urge to steal in the first place.

budaatum:

No. It means Jesus washed my old sins away when I repented and stopped sinning anymore and now I work hard to stay clean by not sinning anymore. By the Grace of God of course.

I do still sin since I am not perfect. But everyday I diligently work to remove the sinning from me. I mean, why should I be sinning when the Lord God is my God? Is sin not the worship of notgod?

budaatum:

No. It means Jesus washed my old sins away when I repented and stopped sinning anymore and now I work hard to stay clean by not sinning anymore. By the Grace of God of course.

I do still sin since I am not perfect. But everyday I diligently work to remove the sinning from me. I mean, why should I be sinning when the Lord God is my God? Is sin not the worship of notgod?

solite3:
everlasting righteousness is a gift base on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross.

Moral righteousness is filthy rag before God.

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

solite3:
everlasting righteousness is a gift base on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross.

Moral righteousness is filthy rag before God.

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Shepherd00:

So, I can go back to fornication, lying to have my way. Controlling and manipulating people, living in malice and unforgiveness. Pride and greed, stealing and wishing people harm, and still retain my righteousness?

theoriginalgood:

Serious question deserves serious answer.

Why does God the perfect righteous, not live among men? Why is there a disconnection between humanity and God? Humans and Good are very different.

theoriginalgood:

God has been alive since the beginning of existence, orchestrating the whole show. Which human has escaped death? Which human has perfect memory to recall generations past?

theoriginalgood:

Humans are proven imperfect and thus not good. Only good is perfect. A being that is imperfect can never be righteous. No matter what faith that individual practices. Human is human.

bloodofthelamb:


Those born of God cannot continue in all this things you listed. Besides, the scripture says we are dead to all this things through Christ.

The key to us reigning over sin is we being fully conscious and aware that we are dead to it in Christ Jesus. Those who engage in all this things have forgotten who they are now in Christ. Is as simple as that.

Shepherd00:

This Isaiah you quoted here is misplaced. This is before we met Christ.

If he gives you his righteousness and you take it and go back to your normal sinful ways, retain it abi? You mean if you turn your face away from the gift of righteousness, you can still keep it?

bloodofthelamb:


Righteousness is not what we do, but who we are in Christ. What we do is the result of who we are. The acts of righteousness! We righteous creature in Christ Jesus.

Shepherd00:

Brother, at what point in our lives as Born Again believers do we attain this? Becos a born again Child of.God is like a natural new born baby, peeing, popping and vomiting on himself. Are you saying a baby can be born and grow up to full adult age at once?

Are you saying no one can turn away from following Jesus? Becos in the Bible it happened

bloodofthelamb:


Growing spiritually requires knowledge. The more you come to terms with who you are now in Christ, the more mature you will be.

Do you mean the saved can be unsaved?

Shepherd00:

Yes, I agree, it is given to us. The bone of contention here is, after receiving that gift of righteousness but we go back to our former ways with the confidence that after all we can not loose it, can we retain it indeed?

Remember Judasiskariot? He shared in the Table of the Lord, he received the same Holy Spirit to heal the sick and cast out demons when the Lord sent them out on the mission field, but did he retain his Grace When he turned away?

Shepherd00:

Yes, I agree, it is given to us. The bone of contention here is, after receiving that gift of righteousness but we go back to our former ways with the confidence that after all we can not loose it, can we retain it indeed?

Remember Judasiskariot? He shared in the Table of the Lord, he received the same Holy Spirit to heal the sick and cast out demons when the Lord sent them out on the mission field, but did he retain his Grace When he turned away?

bloodofthelamb:



Though an eagle can live like a chicken due to wrong association and lost of identity, but that doesn't automatically make the eagle a chicken. All the eagle needs to soar again is the knowledge of it identity.

Though we the righteousness of God in God can sometimes walk in sin but that does not mean we will remain in it. Righteousness is our DNA in Christ. In truth we don't have former ways in Christ. Remember, "if anyone be in Christ he is a righteous new creation."

Judas never had the Holy Spirit dwelling in him. The Spirit came officially upon men at Pentecost when Christ has been glorified.

bloodofthelamb:



Though an eagle can live like a chicken due to wrong association and lost of identity, but that doesn't automatically make the eagle a chicken. All the eagle needs to soar again is the knowledge of it identity.

Though we the righteousness of God in God can sometimes walk in sin but that does not mean we will remain in it. Righteousness is our DNA in Christ. In truth we don't have former ways in Christ. Remember, "if anyone be in Christ he is a righteous new creation."

Judas never had the Holy Spirit dwelling in him. The Spirit came officially upon men at Pentecost when Christ has been glorified.

Shepherd00:

So, I can go back to fornication, lying to have my way. Controlling and manipulating people, living in malice and unforgiveness. Pride and greed, stealing and wishing people harm, and still retain my righteousness?

Shepherd00:

Pls can I go ahead now and celebrate your return to Christ? Becos I know you are not new in this.

budaatum:

Hold on a minute. Don't be hasty. You must diligently check!

What do you mean by, "not new in this"? Explain.

solite3:
when one is bornagain the sin nature automatically dies off. A saved man can not continue to live like that because he his born of God. Even if a believer sin he doesn't lose his righteousness.