Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? - Religion - Nairaland
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| Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by paxonel(m): 2:06pm On Jun 22, 2019 |
Going by this
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| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by alBHAGDADI: 2:18pm On Jun 22, 2019 |
No, it is not right. 1 Like |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by eyeview: 2:25pm On Jun 22, 2019 |
We are in the last dispensation where God spoke that He will pour out His spirit on ALL flesh. 3 Likes |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by Nobody: 2:27pm On Jun 22, 2019 |
paxonel:1Timothy 2:12 |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by iPrevail(m): 2:39pm On Jun 22, 2019 |
If you agree to this it simply means that you agree that God is partial and also a sexist. 7 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by IdreamOfUnicorn(f): 2:41pm On Jun 22, 2019 |
By Joe E. Lunceford Religion Department Why the question mark, many would say. Isn’t it the “clear teaching of Scripture” teaches that women should keep silent in the church? In a word, no it isn’t! It is anything but clear. The proof-text most often used to support this position is I Cor. 14:34. The fact is all too often overlooked that the same Paul wrote in I Cor. 11 that a woman should have a covering on her head when she prayed or prophesied. What sense would this guidance make if women did not pray or prophesy. As I regularly remark to my classes, to pray or prophesy and keep silent all at the same time is a pretty good trick! So how are we to deal with this apparent contradiction? I want first to set forth the usual interpretations of this passage and then suggest one which does not require turning a blind eye to other things Paul wrote. The first, and seemingly the most natural one, is that women should completely keep silent in the church. This is probably the most commonly used interpretation, especially by those who have a strong desire to “keep women in their places.” Secondly, since this verse comes shortly after an extensive discussion of tongue-speaking, some have argued that the prohibition only applies to tongue-speaking. Both of these interpretations, however. leave the woman in a sort of “second class citizenship” that I am not willing to settle for. A third approach has been that this was not written by Paul but is an interpolation by a later disciple of Paul. The only evidence anyone has come up with that will any way support this position, however, is a different placement of vv. 34-35. A handful of ancient authorities support the placement of vv. 34-35 after v. 40. I strongly doubt that this fact will support the interpretive weight that has been placed upon it. Furthermore, to assume that anyone familiar with Paul’s teachings would not have seen the blatant contradiction of these verses with I Cor. 11:5 is quite a “stretch.” This would require an assumption of no small amount of stupidity on the part of the interpolator! I believe there is a very plausible way around all of these interpretations, and one that makes sense of both passages without having one contradict the other. In 1 Cor. 7:1, Paul writes, “Now, concerning the things about which you wrote (emphasis mine).” Paul had clearly received a letter from the church at Corinth, the contents of which we do not know with any certainty. That verse clearly indicates that they wrote about more than one issue. I think a good case can be made for treating the remainder of 1 Corinthians as directly responding to the issues they raised in their letter to Paul; just as you or I in answering a letter from a friend would use what they had said in their letter as a guide. I would like to suggest that we treat I Cor. 15:34-35 as a quotation from their letter, which Paul then refutes in v. 36. Quotation marks were not used during this period of time, and so we cannot tell for sure where quoted matter begins and ends. I am suggesting that they wrote to Paul that women should keep silent in the church “as the law also says.” For starters, let us ask, What law? This proves to be a very interesting question in this context. Clearly it is not Old Testament law that is in view since the church was not yet in existence when that law was written. The Greek word no/moj (“law”) has other connotations as well as law. It can also refer to what is normal or customary; and I think this is the connation as Paul uses the word here. Now--where does v. 36 fit in? I think this is Paul’s response to what they wrote. “Did the word of God go out from you (men), or has it come to you (men) only? (Author’s translation) The word translated “only” is mo/nouj, a masculine plural pronoun, upon which I base the translation above. I hear Paul as saying, you want to require women to keep silent in the church—does that mean the word of God has gone out from or come to you men only? Paul is not saying a woman cannot teach or be a pastor 3 Likes 4 Shares |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by Nobody: 2:45pm On Jun 22, 2019 |
The point here is women can speak in the Churches when women alone are gathered, when it is a gathering of both men and women, then the women ought to remain silent as the Bible rightly stated. |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by iPrevail(m): 3:04pm On Jun 22, 2019 |
paulemmy19: And have you ever wondered or asked why? 4 Likes |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by paxonel(m): 3:39pm On Jun 22, 2019 |
But what if I say that scripture is old school to this modern day, therefore women should not be marginalized in any form? |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by Nobody: 4:03pm On Jun 22, 2019 |
iPrevail:The ORIGINAL creature God made in his image is the Male NOT the female! Genesis 2:7,18,20-21 So the Female was created as a compliment of Male. God always look up to the Male for the responsibility of whatever goes wrong NOT Female! That was why Job wasn't asked to leave his wife who asked him to CURSE God! Job 2:9 Jesus is the only begotten son of God, though he respected Females a lot but he NEVER chose on single female to officiate amongst his followers! Matthew 10:2-4 Paul said women are to listen during teaching in the congregation{Church} and if they have anything bordering them, the should ask their husbands AT HOME! 1Timothy 2:12, 1Corinthians 14:34-35 Even Angels are jealous for this {1Corinthians 11:7-10} because when a woman is the only BAPTISED member around, she as a baptised Christian should officiate BUT she must cover her head as a sign that she's not supposed to be doing that! And once the males are baptised, she returns to her quiet seat! Thanks! |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by iPrevail(m): 4:06pm On Jun 22, 2019 |
Maximus69: Smh. Be honest, can you teach this to your female child? 4 Likes |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by Nobody: 4:07pm On Jun 22, 2019 |
paxonel:Then whatever is practiced in such a gathering can't be rightly referred to as CHRISTIANITY! The only guide or authority for those practicing Christianity is the Bible! A rejection of any part of the admonitions found inside it is tantamount to paganism! 2Timothy 3:16-17 |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by Nobody: 4:09pm On Jun 22, 2019 |
iPrevail:Well i'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses and throughout the world that's the standard! 1Corinthians 1:10, Ephesians 4:3, Philippians 2:2 Thanks Sir, God bless you! |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by paxonel(m): 4:26pm On Jun 22, 2019 |
Maximus69:who create that law anyway? God himself or Paul the apostle? 2 Likes |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by Nobody: 10:44pm On Jun 22, 2019 |
paxonel: God himself! Paul was a Jewish {born again} Christian INSPIRED by Jesus{God's only begotten son} to TEACH all gentile Christians how to worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob! Romans 11:13, 1Timothy 2:7 All Jewish Christians need not be taught this because they already knew God's viewpoint on the issue from the law given to them as God NEVER appointed a Female priest! But gentiles like you and i who loves to worship the same God with them must learn how to do so FROM THE JEWS{Zachariah 8:23} that was why Jesus chose a special Apostle in person of Paul to handle that, after choosing twelve for his Jewish people whom he PRIMARILY came for! Matthew 10:6,15:24 You'll notice that the twelve Apostles all stayed back in Jerusalem {Act 15:2,16:4} because Jesus NEVER appointed them to go to other nations apart from Israel! Matthew 10:5-6 It is whatever they concluded upon that Paul must carry to wherever he goes, but when it comes to inculcating the tenets of Christianity in the minds of none Jews, Paul knows best because of his vast experience {1Corinthians 9: 19-23} that was why Jesus{God's only begotten son} chose him for that assignment! Act 9:15 God bless you Sir! |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by Truthsbitter: 10:55pm On Jun 22, 2019 |
There's absolutely nothing wrong...
with God all things are possible. 1 Like |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by xoxocandy(f): 4:38am On Jun 23, 2019 |
Maximus69:"The ORIGINAL creature God made in his image is the Male NOT the female!" So females are not made in God's image smh for you 6 Likes |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by xoxocandy(f): 4:40am On Jun 23, 2019 |
paulemmy19:This sounds like some misogynistic bull to me 4 Likes |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by xoxocandy(f): 4:43am On Jun 23, 2019 |
Maximus69:So in other words you're saying CHRISTIANITY is sexist and partial? like someone stated above 5 Likes |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by KelvinCX(m): 4:56am On Jun 23, 2019 |
In writing to the Corinthian church, Paul writes, “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church” (1 Cor 14:34-35). That seems plain as day, right? Yes, if these verses are looked at in isolation, it does seem very plain that Paul was restricting women from speaking in church meetings. However, let’s consider the text, in its context. Immediate Context: Firstly, consider that the very next verse says, “What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?” (1 Cor 14:36), which, if read immediately after verses 34-35, shows Paul to be reacting to the idea of restricting women and not advocating it. Extra Biblical Context: Now, someone may rightly ask, surely Paul would not advocate following God’s law only to immediately refuse the idea. But, was it God’s “law” that Paul was referring to that says women ought to keep silent? No! A careful search will reveal no such law in the Bible. So what “law” was Paul referring to then? Paul was quoting the Jewish oral law (Talmud) in vs 34-35 that some in the church apparently still wanted to embrace. And, in vs 36, we see Paul reasoning against this restriction on women. Firstly, he is clearly flabbergasted by such a notion. Then, through rhetorical questions, he refutes their logic to keep such a custom. Paul points out that the word did not come from men, but, by implication, that it is from God. And, that it also did not only go to men, but, by implication women too. The logic being that there was no reason to restrict women from speaking because they “learn” just fine directly from God and His word and don’t need to be instructed by their husbands at home in order to learn. This explains the grammar and obvious tone in verse 36. TALMUDIC QUOTES : Only men could speak in public (Beraktoth 4,36; Mishnah Aboth 1,5) No woman could give a testimony or conduct business. (Mishnah Shabbath 4,1). For a glimpse into the prevailing mindsets around that era, here is Adam Clarkes comment on Verse 34: “Let your women keep silence in the churches] This was a Jewish ordinance; women were not permitted to teach in the assemblies, or even to ask questions. The rabbins taught that “a woman should know nothing but the use of her distaff.” And the sayings of Rabbi Eliezer, as delivered, Bammidbar Rabba, sec. 9, fol. 204, are both worthy of remark and of execration; they are ….”Let the words of the law be burned, rather than that they should be delivered to women.” Adam Clarke Further Context: Paul would be contradicting himself in the very same letter if he taught that women were to keep silent. Consider that he says 1 Cor 14:26, “…when ye come together, EVERY ONE of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation…” This would be impossible for women if they were to keep silent. Furthermore, Paul clearly knew, taught and practiced the New Covenant where no restriction on women exists. In Galatians 3:28, Paul captures the equality that is found in Christ. It reads, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” Paul Was Rejecting Male Patriarchy and Not Women Speaking So, contrary to the teachings and traditions of Judaism (and a whole lot of Christianity today), PAUL WAS OPPOSING THOSE WHO WOULD SILENCE WOMEN. He was correcting those who were wanting to bring certain wrong teachings and traditions from Judaism into the church. Clearly, if we are to isolate verses to capture Paul’s thinking then surely his view is seen in vs. 36 and not vs. 34-35. He then refutes opposition to this by saying, “If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant” (1 Cor 14:37-38). Perhaps you are asking, “What of: 1 Tim 2:11-15 1 Cor 11:3 1 Tim 3:1 Eph 5:22 |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by naijaboy756: 4:56am On Jun 23, 2019 |
xoxocandy:So as Christ didn't have a female disciple, he is partial? We are always wiser than simple instructions |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by KelvinCX(m): 5:16am On Jun 23, 2019 |
naijaboy756:Twelve Jewish men symbolized the patriarchs of the twelve tribes of Israel (Luke 22:30). Jesus’ own call to ministry was focused on reaching Israel (Matt. 10:5–6; 15:24; John 1:11; Rom. 15:8–9), because the earlier covenant was made with Israel (see Gen. 35:10-12; 1 Kings 18:31). The twelve were a witness to Israel, representing God’s first covenant with them and reminding them of God’s promises that were about to be fulfilled through Jesus. The twelve do not, however, signify that only men can be leaders in the church. Nowhere does Jesus ever state that only men may serve as leaders in the church, nor does he teach that it is by maintaining traditional male-female roles that we will advance God’s reign. Jesus’ teachings do not focus on the apostles’ ethnicity or sex as a model for Christian leadership. Otherwise no Gentile church could have its own leaders but would have to depend on Jewish males to lead each congregation. Also note that after Matthias replaced Judas, the twelve were not replaced once any of them died after Pentecost (such as James, son of Zebedee, Acts 12:2). Jewish male apostles are not synonymous with all leadership, and nowhere does the New Testament teach that other categories of leaders (like overseers, 1 Tim. 3:1) should be clearly limited to apostles. Building on this Old Testament symbolic base of the twelve, Jesus began expanding the numbers for the new covenant. The new covenant was begun by the apostolic witness of women and men. An apostle is someone sent with orders, an eyewitness of the resurrected Jesus. Jesus commissioned the twelve to “be with him” and he sent them “to preach” and “to have authority to drive out demons” (Mark 3:14–15). To “be with” Jesus, therefore, preceded the sending. After the resurrection, “apostles” were comprised of many who had “been with” Jesus and were now also witnesses to the resurrection (Acts 1:21–22; 4:33), including the women at the tomb (Matt. 28:1, 7; Mark 16:1, 6–7; Luke 24:5–10) and the more than 500 brothers and sisters (1 Cor 15:6). In the post-resurrection, post-Pentecost new covenant community, apostles are no longer limited to twelve, but are multi-numbered because Jesus’ ministry has refocused from the Jewish people, the twelve tribes, and the old covenant, to the Gentiles, the nations, and the many tribes. At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit became a permanent indweller of every believer, thus equipping every believer — both male and female — to be priest or intercessor between humans and God (1 Peter 2:9). Moreover, we have examples of female apostles in the New Testament. Jesus sent out Mary Magdalene, saying to her: “Go to my brothers and sisters and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father” (John 20:17). He broke convention by choosing women as the first witnesses for the greatest event of all times, the resurrection, even though women were not considered as valid witnesses in court. He established that faith — not ethnicity, class, or gender — is the key determiner of service and leadership in the new covenant community. Additionally, one woman, Junia, is even called an “apostle”: Paul describes “Andronicus and Junia, my compatriots and my fellow prisoners, who are well known ( episemos) among the apostles, they also came before me in Christ” (Rom. 16:7). Episemos is literally “having a mark.” Andronicus and Junia “stood out” or were “important,” “marked out,” among the apostles. They were believers, witnesses of Jesus’ resurrection, who stood firm despite persecution and imprisonment in the message they were given about the Messiah. 1 Like 2 Shares |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by CosmicPhoenix: 6:31am On Jun 23, 2019 |
i wonder what christian feminist will say about this 
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| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by Nobody: 7:05am On Jun 23, 2019 |
xoxocandy:Surely both Male and Female were created in the likeness of God! Genesis 1:27 But carefully note how Genesis 2:18-25 further explains, when God said 'let us make man in our own image' {Genesis 1:26} the ONE and ONLY creature made was Male! So according to the Bible, Female humans came as a COMPLIMENT of the one created in God's image{Males} therefore it is clear that Females are secondary NOT the primary image of God! Moreover, when angels from heaven came down to have SEX with humans, it was recorded that this angelic creatures were Males NOT Females! Genesis 6:1-2 Of course God punished them for that unwholesome relations! Jude 6 compared to 2Peter 2:4-5 Please we are NOT talking about the deities of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece or Rome here, where there are Goddesses as well as priestesses in their shrines. This is about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob whose laws and viewpoints are written clearly as instruction for those who might wish to worship this same God in our own time! Romans 15:4 compared to 1Corinthians 10:11 |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by Uyi168: 7:09am On Jun 23, 2019 |
xoxocandy:.. It sounds so,actually that's what it is.. The verses are there and clear for all to see.. |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by Uyi168: 7:13am On Jun 23, 2019 |
Yahweh never had plans of creating woman in the first place.. For other creatures, he created two, male and female.. When he came to man, he only created only Adam.. Adam's loneliness is what actually prompted him to have a rethink.. |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by Nobody: 7:15am On Jun 23, 2019 |
CosmicPhoenix:Jesus has laid the foundation, those who refuses to build on that foundation are surely wasting their time! He chose ONLY males and Paul made it clear that Females are not to lead during worship. This is clear and indisputable! Please that is what it means to BELIEVE in Jesus as we all bow to the standard he set, NOT dragging issues with him and praising him with mere words of the mouth! Matthew 15:7-9 God bless you! |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by Dantedasz(m): 7:23am On Jun 23, 2019 |
Uyi168: Why would an omniscient entity have a rethink?  1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by Nobody: 7:24am On Jun 23, 2019 |
xoxocandy:NO God is not partial! The responsibility to TEACH has never been given to women in the whole Bible, God has always been consistent on that! But for the practical applications and benefits, you need to know that women always finds it difficult to humble themselves when given the privilege of authority! Even at home they find it so difficult to humble themselves under a man not financially capable than them. This is why God's word referred to them as WEAKER VESSELS because they incapable of managing powerful positions! 1Peter 3:7 |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by Dantedasz(m): 7:27am On Jun 23, 2019 |
Maximus69: The Bible is a sexist book then. |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by Funaki: 7:28am On Jun 23, 2019 |
Uyi168:there are like 2 accounts of man creation. Genesis 1 account was a little different from Genesis 2 account. Genesis 1:26-27 KJV And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. [27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. man is both male and female, according to genesis 1. |
| Re: Is It Right For A Woman To Be A Pastor? by Nobody: 7:35am On Jun 23, 2019 |
Dantedasz:Can you show me where he ever referred to himself as OMNISCIENT in the Bible? Because the Bible made it clear that there are things that brought him pain {Genesis 6:5-6} and of course he couldn't have planned what will cause him pain if he is OMNISCIENT! The freewill he gave humans means they are free to chose what they will do but that never meant he knew everything they will do as he is holy{not capable of thinking evil} Jeremiah 19:5 Our attitudes will prove what we choose to be, whether we will be his children{always virtuous in thoughts like him} Deuteronomy 32:5 Or allow our own inclination of imperfection to always navigate all our thoughts! John 8:44 |
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