OLAADEGBU:

Since the words of our Lord Jesus Christ has now like water on the back of a duck to you reducing Him to a mortal man let me use the advise of John Paul Getty who said:

"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig."

I don't want to waste my time since it appears your likes easily get annoyed when you are being answered according to the Scriptures.

frosbel:

Thanks for calling me a Pig and a Dog , no problem .

frosbel:

Never think for one second that I am angry with you or anyone here for that matter, why you should imagine such a bizarre thing is truly baffling and shows your state of mind.

That's what too much brainwashing in deeperlife has done to you !

frosbel:

Anyway , back to my point , can you kindly help me with the questions asked :

1. how many Faces do we have here

2. how many Backs do we have here

3. how many Hands do we have here

OLAADEGBU:

Na you talk am o. If Jesus Christ said it and you claimed it then the problem is yours.



Are you really saying that you are a pig that gets angry when taught how to sing?



Back to the point I made earlier. The Words of our Lord Jesus Christ is fresher than tomorrow's newspaper:

"Give not that which is holy to the dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." -- Matthew 7:6

OLAADEGBU: . While there is one God, there are three persons within the One God. QED .

ijawkid:

Now that's confusion @ its peak......


Ola how far....how u dey??

Jesus Christ is God, not with inverted commas, but the very God of the very God. His name is Yahweh.

Jesus Christ possesses divine names—names that can only be used of God. For example:

Jesus is Yahweh.

Yahweh is a very common Hebrew name for God in the Old Testament, occurring over 5,300 times. It is translated Lord (all capitals) in many English translations of the Bible.

We first learn of this name in Exodus 3, where Moses asked God by what name He should be called. God replied to him, "I AM WHO I AM. . . .Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you" (verse 14). Yahweh is basically a shortened form of "I AM WHO I AM" (verse 15). The name conveys the idea of eternal self-existence. Yahweh never came into being at a point in time for He has always existed.

Jesus implicitly ascribed this divine name to himself during a confrontation He had with a group of hostile Jews. He said, "I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58). Jesus deliberately contrasted the created origin of Abraham—whom the Jews venerated—with His own eternal, uncreated nature as God

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab2/is-jesus-god

frosbel: The Unknowable God

The Trinity Doctrine is impossible to understand, yet understanding our relationship to God is central in gaining salvation and understanding many other gospel doctrines. In fact the Bible tells us that our very eternal life depends on knowing HIM.

John 17: 3 - And this is life eternal, that they might KNOW thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Bottom line, the 3-in-one monster conjured up by the Trinity is an unknowable being. The Trinity is confusion, and that is NOT of God, but of the devil.(See 1 Cor. 14: 33)

Honest theologians and priests will even admit that there is no way to "understand" the Trinity. They will argue that the mortal mind cannot grasp it but only "comprehend" some of it, but even that is a stretch when the scripture states that our very eternal life depends on KNOWING Him.

I also believe that if there was one doctrine that we should fully understand, it SHOULD be the one about the character and nature of God, and that he'd be a mean son of a gun to give us no way of understanding this very basic and important aspect of the gospel.

If you know anything about the history of the Nicean council, you also know that the framers of this gibberish themselves actually knew that what they were outlining was incomprehensible. That leads you to another problematic question... If the theologian/writers of the Trinity KNEW it was beyond the understanding of men. Then, as MEN, how do they know that they got it right in the first place?

That leads us to the final part of the argument. The lack of spiritual evidence that this doctrine is accepted by God.

As I have argued, this is a key doctrine that is pivotal to understand which touches most if not all other gospel principals and doctrines, yet there is no evidence of spiritual manifestations, or any kind of confirmation by the spirit for the conclusion of Nicea.

Again, anyone who takes time to read and study the history of the Nicean Creed will be struck by the strictly political atmosphere of the whole event--thats it.

If you take your examples from the Bible you will notice that most all of the major events in scripture were attended by angels, had manifestations of the Holy Spirit, or miraculous happenings of some sort or another. Yet at Nicea, none of the attendants reported angels appearing, cloven tongues of fire, or even a simple voice from heaven. Everything went off like a session of congress with everybody trying to please the Roman Emperor.

If this IS a pivotal doctrine, why wouldn't there be SOME record of a miraculous occurance that could be pointed to as acceptance by God?

So there you have it. I think these common sense reasons are valid and very strong against the Trinity being a true doctrine. I believe that most Christian Churches of the day have accepted it simply because it is a tradition. If you can argue against any of this, I'd love to hear it.

Ihedinobi:

No sensible person would waste their time arguing against excuses.

234 The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of Christian faith and life. It is the mystery of God in himself. It is therefore the source of all the other mysteries of faith, the light that enlightens them. It is the most fundamental and essential teaching in the "hierarchy of the truths of faith".56 The whole history of salvation is identical with the history of the way and the means by which the one true God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, reveals himself to men "and reconciles and unites with himself those who turn away from sin".57

237 The Trinity is a mystery of faith in the strict sense, one of the "mysteries that are hidden in God, which can never be known unless they are revealed by God".58 To be sure, God has left traces of his Trinitarian being in his work of creation and in his Revelation throughout the Old Testament. But his inmost Being as Holy Trinity is a mystery that is inaccessible to reason alone or even t[b]o Israel's faith before the Incarnation of God's Son[/b] and the sending of the Holy Spirit.

The dogma of the Holy Trinity

253 The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity".83 The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God."84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."85

254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary."86 "Father", "Son", "Holy Spirit" are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87 They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."88 The divine Unity is Triune.

255 The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance."89 Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship."90 "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son."91

frosbel:

God's word clearly says he is ONE.

frosbel:
You and the Catholics have divided him into three, this is heresy.

Let me show you some little glimpse into the catholic church's thought on this matter , direct from the Vatican web site. http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p2.htm

[size=13pt]This is the catholic trash you want us to believe in.[/size]

The Trinity In Creation

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light" (Genesis 1:1–3).

These incomparable words open God’s written revelation to man, telling us how our Time/Space/Matter universe came to exist. No other religious writings, ancient or modern, do this. All others begin with the assumption of an eternal, self-existing universe. The truth is, however, that the eternal, self-existing, transcendent, omnipotent Triune God simply called the universe into being by His word. "By the word of the LORD were the heavens made. . . . For He spake, and it was done" (Psalm 33:6,9).

The Hebrew for "God" is the uni-plural Elohim, a plural noun (as noted by the “im” ending), yet normally represented by a singular pronoun "He." This is the first foreshadowing of the marvelous doctrine of the Trinity—only one Creator God, yet functioning as three divine Persons. It is significant that His created universe is actually a tri-universe, with each of its distinct components (“beginning” = time; “heaven” = space; “earth” = matter) comprising and pervading the whole universe. Just as the Father is the source and background of all being, so space is the background of all that happens in the physical universe. Just as the Son manifests and speaks for the Father, so matter manifests and functions in space. Just as the Spirit interprets and energizes the Son and the Father in human experience, so space and matter are interpreted and experienced in phenomena operating in time.

The Father planned the work of creation, the Son did the work (“all things were made by Him”—John 1:3), and the Spirit energized it ("the Spirit of God moved"). The Triune God created and now sustains our tri-universe! HMM

frosbel: ^^^


You are a catholic , trust me.

OLAADEGBU:

This is to answer the objections and misconceptions from cults and false religions that plague this thread against both the deity of Christ Jesus and the doctrine of the Godhead otherwise known as the doctrine of Trinity.

Objection 1:

Misconceptions of who Jesus as the Son of God is:

There are those who claim that because Jesus is the Son of God, to them He must be a lesser God than God the Father. Among the ancients, however, an important meaning of the phrase "Son of" is "one who has the same nature as."

Jesus, as the Son of God, has the very nature of God (John 5:18; 10:30; 19:7). He is thus not a lesser God.

Objection 2:

The Father Is "Greater" Than Jesus:

Some other cults and false religions object that because Jesus said the Father is "greater" than Him (John 14:28), this must mean Jesus is a lesser God. Biblically, however, Jesus is equal with the Father in His divine nature (John 10:30). He was positionally lower than the Father from the standpoint of His becoming a servant by taking on human likeness (Philipians 2:6-11). Positionally, then, the Father was "greater" than Jesus.

Objection 3. 

Jesus Is the Firstborn:

Some cults argue that because Jesus is the "firstborn of creation" (Colosians 1:15), He is a created being and hence cannot be truly God.  Biblically, however, Christ was not created but is the Creator (Colosians 1:16; John 1:3). 

The term firstborn, defined biblically, means Christ is "the first in rank" and "pre-eminent" over the creation He brought into being.

OLAADEGBU: Objection 4. 

Jesus Is Not All-Knowing:

Some cults argue that because Jesus said no one knows the day or hour of His return except the Father (Mark 13:32), Jesus must not be all-knowing and hence must not be truly God. 

In response, Jesus in the Gospels sometimes spoke from the perspective of His divinity and at other times from the perspective of His humanity (Philipians 2:5-11).  Had He been speaking from His divinity, He would not have said He did not know the day or hour.  Other verses show that Christ, as God, knows all things (Matthew 17:27; Luke 5:4-6; John 2:25; 16:30; 21:17).

Objection 5. 

Jesus Prayed:

Some cults argue that because Jesus prayed to the Father, He could not truly be God. 

Biblically, however, it was in His humanity that Christ prayed to the Father.  Since Christ came as a man -- and since one of the proper duties of man is to worship, pray to and adore God -- it was perfectly proper for Jesus to address the Father in prayer.  Positionally speaking as a man, as a Jew and as our High Priest -- "in all things He had to be made like His brethren" (Hebrews 2:7) -- Jesus could pray to the Father.  But this in no way detracts from His intrinsic deity.

Objection 6. 

The Trinity Is Illogical:

Some cults claim the Trinity is illogical ("three in one". 

In response, the Trinity does not entail three gods in one God, or three persons in one person.  Such claims would be nonsensical.  There is nothing contradictory, however, in affirming three persons in one God (or three whos in one what).

OLAADEGBU:

Objection 7.

The Trinity Is Pagan

Some cults have claimed the doctrine of the Trinity is rooted in ancient paganism in Babylon and Assyria.

In response, the Babylonians and Assyrians believed in triads of gods who headed up a pantheon of many other gods. These triads constituted three separate gods (polytheism), which is utterly different from the doctrine of Trinity that maintains that there is only one God (monotheism) with three person within the one Godhead.

OLAADEGBU:

Jesus is Kurios.

The New Testament Greek equivalent of the Old Testament Hebrew name Yahweh is Kurios. Used of God, Kurios carries the idea of a sovereign being who exercises absolute authority. The word is translated Lord in English translations of the Bible.

To an early Christian accustomed to reading the Old Testament, the word Lord, when used of Jesus, would point to His identification with the God of the Old Testament (Yahweh). Hence, the affirmation that "Jesus is Lord" (Kurios) in the New Testament constitutes a clear affirmation that Jesus is Yahweh, as is the case in passages like Romans 10:9, 1 Corinthians 12:3, and Philippians 2:5–11.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab2/is-jesus-god

OLAADEGBU:

Jesus is Elohim.

Elohim is a Hebrew name that is used of God 2,570 times in the Old Testament. The name literally means "strong one," and its plural ending (im in Hebrew) indicates fullness of power. Elohim is portrayed in the Old Testament as the powerful and sovereign governor of the universe, ruling over the affairs of humankind.

Jesus is recognised as both Yahweh and Elohim in the prophecy in Isaiah 40:3:

"Prepare the way of the Lord [Yahweh]; make straight in the desert a highway for our God [Elohim]."

This verse was written in reference to John the Baptist preparing for the coming of Christ (as confirmed in John 1:23) and represents one of the strongest affirmations of Christ's deity in the Old Testament. In Isaiah 9:6, we likewise read a prophecy of Christ with a singular variant (El) of Elohim:

"And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God [El], Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab2/is-jesus-god

OLAADEGBU:

Jesus is Theos.

The New Testament Greek word for God, Theos, is the corresponding parallel to the Old Testament Hebrew term Elohim. A well-known example of Christ being addressed as God (Theos) is found in the story of "doubting Thomas" in John 20. In this passage, Thomas witnesses the resurrected Christ and worshipfully responds: "My Lord and my God [Theos]" (John 20:28 ).

Jesus is called Theos throughout the rest of the New Testament. For example, when a jailer asked Paul and Silas how to be saved, they responded: "Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household" (Acts 16:31). After the jailer believed and became saved, he "rejoiced, having believed in God [Theos] with all his household" (verse 34). Believing in Christ and believing in God are seen as identical acts.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab2/is-jesus-god

Boomark: Godhead

trinitarians need to ask themselves:
what is all fullness?
What is Godhead?

Col 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fullnessof the Godhead bodily.

Note carefully that Godhead is dwelling in Christ. He is not part or in Godhead but it dwells in him. Godhead means God's nature, divine qualities. Research it.

Colossians 1:19-20
New International Version (NIV)
19 For God was pleased to have all
his fullness dwell in him, 20 and
through him to reconcile to himself
all things, whether things on earth
or things in heaven, by making
peace through his blood, shed on
the cross.

For it pleases the Father to have the fullness of His nature(Godhead) in Christ. So that through Christ Godwill reconcile everything back to Himself and no other person.

Romans 1:19-20
King James Version (KJV)
19 Because that which may be
known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him
from the creation of the world are
clearly seen, being understood by
the things that are made, even his
eternal power and Godhead; so
that they are without excuse:

This one will help you understand that eternal power and Godhead is something that belongs to the Father and not that He is in it.

Ephesians 1:22-23
New International Version (NIV)
22 And God placed all things under
his feet and appointed him to be
head over everything for the
church, 23 which is his body, the
fullness of him who fills everything
in every way.

It is God that gave Christ the authority he has by putting all things under his feet. But you are mistaken by making him equal to God after seeing the authority he possess. It is God that fills everything He pleases with His fullness.

Godhead is not made up 3 persons but it is God's nature or qualities.

Any Objection?

Jesus possesses attributes that belong only to God.

"Jesus is Eternal".

Jesus is eternal. John 1:1 affirms:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

The word was in this verse is an imperfect tense, indicating continuous, ongoing existence. When the timespace universe came into being, Christ already existed (Hebrews 1:8–11).

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab2/is-jesus-god

kola oloye: All these your analysis A=C is your own conclusion.Jesus never called himself God. All your quotations from the book of Colossians is just like what you are trying to proof that if A=B and B=C then A=C. The writers statement was not confirmed either by Jesus or any of the Apostles. You can see the confirmation of what I was telling you by the Lord himself . He,Jesus, referred to God as my father in heaven.Jesus is not the Jehovah. Nobody can kill the Almighty God.He cannot be crucified for the sins of the people he created. Before we proceed kindly give me the scripture in the entire Bible where Jesus called or confirmed himself as Jehovah.