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The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved - Religion (2) - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved (1434 Views)

There Are Atheists Who Acknowledge the Existence of the Creator of the Universe / I Need Help For A Spiritual Problem Of Over Three Years. / It's Only God And Apostle Suleman's Wife That Can Condemn Him (2) (3) (4)

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Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Maximus69: 9:43pm On Aug 13
Abdulgaffar22:
@ maximus69

This is from Wikipedia


Tablighi Jamaat (Tablīghī Jamā‘at; lit. Society for spreading faith) is a non-political global missionary movement that focuses on urging Muslims to return to Practicing Islam,[5][6] and particularly in matters of ritual, dress, and personal behavior.[7] The organisation is estimated to have between 12 million[8] and 150 million adherents[3] (the majority living in South Asia[9]), and a presence in somewhere between 150[8] and 200 countries.[3] It has been called "one of the most influential religious movements in 20th century Islam".[10]

2009 Malaysian Annual Congregation of Tablighi Jamaat Sepang Selangor, Malaysia
2009 Malaysian Annual Congregation of Tablighi Jamaat
Sepang Selangor, Malaysia
Founder
Muhammad Ilyas Kandhlawi
Regions with significant populations
India
Pakistan
Bangladesh
[1]
United Kingdom
Indonesia
[2]
Malaysia
Singapore
South Africa
Sri Lanka
Turkey
Yemen
Kyrgyzstan
Russia
Somalia
Nigeria
United States
Canada
Mexico
China ( Hong Kong)
France
[3][4]
Germany
[3]
Tanzania
Brazil
Philippines
West Indies
Qatar
Jordan
Mauritania
Morocco
Algeria
Azerbaijan
Religions
Sunni Islam
Scriptures
Quran, Hadith, Sunnat.
Languages
Liturgical: Arabic
In Bangladesh: Bengali
In India: Urdu
In Pakistan: Urdu
In the diaspora: In UK: Respective regional languages
The movement was founded in 1927 by Muhammad Ilyas al-Kandhlawi in India in accordance to the teachings and practices that take place in The Prophet's Mosque and Ashabus Suffah Tabligh.[11][12] by sending students of the religion to learn the religion around the world. Its stated primary aim is spiritual reformation of Islam by reaching out to Muslims across social and economic spectra and working at the grassroots level, to bring them in line with the group's understanding of Islam.[3][13] The teachings of Tabligh Jamaat are expressed in "Six Principles" (Kalimah (Declaration of faith), Salah (Prayer), Ilm-o-zikr (Knowledge), Ikraam-e-Muslim (Respect of Muslim), Ikhlas-e-Niyyat (Sincerity of intention), Dawat-o-Tableegh (Proselytizaton)).[14] Tablighi Jamaat believes that Muslims are in a constant state of spiritual Jihad in the sense of fight against evil, the weapon of choice is Dawah (proselytization) and that battles are won or lost in the "hearts of men."

Tablighi Jamaat began as an offshoot of the Deobandi movement, and a response to perceived deteriorating moral values and a supposed negligence of aspects of Islam.[15] It expanded from a local to a national to an international movement.

Tablighi Jamaat denies any affiliation in politics and fiqh (jurisprudence),[16] focusing instead on the Quran and Hadith,[16][17] and states that it rejects violence as a means for evangelism,[18] (although some members have become involved in politics in Pakistan). Tablighi Jamaat has claimed to avoid electronic media and in favor of personal communication for proselytising, although prominent Tablighi personalities such as Tariq Jameel are featured on an extensive range of Internet videos and often appear on TV.

Tablighi Jamaat attracted significant public and media attention when it announced plans for the largest mosque in Europe to be built in London, United Kingdom.

Nobody needs all these stories on FACELESS social media Sir!

What we need is to see their activities in the neighborhood and how their conducts have turned out to be in the society.

That's enough to convince sincere and honesthearted observers that they've got something tangible, the rest is story for the gods! wink

1 Like

Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Abdulgaffar22: 10:23pm On Aug 13
Maximus69:



(1) The TRUE Gospel is about God's Kingdom that will be established here on earth {Matthew 6:10 compared Psalms 37:9-11} you guys going to live in heaven or Hell fire


If there is no hell fire, why did Jesus mention everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels in the following verse;

Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41)


Maximus69:



(2)The Holy Spirit is God's active force, but Arabian mentality will not allow you to think straight. When Peter declared that Jesus is the son of God, who did Jesus said spoke through Peter? Matthew 16:17
Sorry Mr Muhammadan it's God's Holy Spirit that spoke through Peter, that's why Satan also spoke immediately through the same Peter {Matthew 16:21-23} Satan was so stupid that he thought perfect Jesus {God's only begotten son} won't be able to distinguish between the utterances of God through the power of his Holy Spirit{Active force} and the utterances motivated by Satan's worldly thinking! cheesy

Matthew 16:17 says:

"Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven"

Where is the mention of Holy Spirit in this verse?Jesus said it was Father (not Holy Spirit) that revealed it to Peter.

Stylishly, you want to dodge my question .
My question is this; Can God's ACTIVE FORCE SPEAK and HEAR (John 16:12-13) ? If your answer is yes, then you have confirmed the 3rd person of Holy Trinity ( God the Holy Spirit) because an ACTIVE FORCE cannot hear and speak since it is NOT a person. Speaking and hearing is a quality of a person; NOT an active force

There are two dilemma in front you; It is either you accept the spirit of truth made mention in John 16:12-13 as God the Holy Spirit (3rd person of Holy Trinity) OR as a human being.

Another evidence that the spirit of truth made mention in John 16 is a PERSON and not an active force is revealed when Jesus was using "HE"

However, when that one* comes, the spirit of the truth,+ HE will guide you into all the truth, for HE will not speak of his own initiative, but what HE hears HE will speak, and HE will declare to you the things to come.+ (John 16:12-13 NWT).

If it was God's ACTIVE FORCE, the pronoun should be "IT" instead of "HE"

So we have two types of evidence to prove that the spirit of truth is a person;
1. The quality of hearing and speaking.
2. The pronoun "HE" which appears five times.
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Maximus69: 11:35pm On Aug 13
Abdulgaffar22:


If there is no hell fire, why did Jesus mention everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels in the following verse;

Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41)



Matthew 16:17 says:

"Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven"

Where is the mention of Holy Spirit in this verse?Jesus said it was Father (not Holy Spirit) that revealed it to Peter.

Stylishly, you want to dodge my question .
My question is this; Can God's ACTIVE FORCE SPEAK and HEAR (John 16:12-13) ? If your answer is yes, then you have confirmed the 3rd person of Holy Trinity ( God the Holy Spirit) because an ACTIVE FORCE cannot hear and speak since it is NOT a person. Speaking and hearing is a quality of a person; NOT an active force

There are two dilemma in front you; It is either you accept the spirit of truth made mention in John 16:12-13 as God the Holy Spirit (3rd person of Holy Trinity) OR as a human being.

Another evidence that the spirit of truth made mention in John 16 is a PERSON and not an active force is revealed when Jesus was using "HE"

However, when that one* comes, the spirit of the truth,+ HE will guide you into all the truth, for HE will not speak of his own initiative, but what HE hears HE will speak, and HE will declare to you the things to come.+ (John 16:12-13 NWT).

If it was God's ACTIVE FORCE, the pronoun should be "IT" instead of "HE"

So we have two types of evidence to prove that the spirit of truth is a person;
1. The quality of hearing and speaking.
2. The pronoun "HE" which appears five times.


God's Holy Spirit speaks through people {2Peter :21} but you won't agree because your Muhammad told you it's Gabriel that spoke to him so it's not easy to resolve this!

THEORIES
PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS and
BENEFITS

If you ask a lazy person to argue with a hard working man, the lazy will start bluffing like a twentieth century radio, no break next jam. An adage "empty bucket often makes the loudest noise", so you're going to keep arguing and arguing in support of what's not working out! grin



Tell your Jamaat or whatever to intensify their preaching and teaching skills so that people everywhere can SEE the benefits of your Allah in the adherents of your faith, then it will become obvious that Allah is God as he is able to organize his worshippers into a peaceful global family which everyone can SEE. Both Allah and Jehovah are invisible to the ordinary eye but with what each can make possible in the midst of his worshippers, everyone will know who is the active as in the living God! Otherwise it's all story for the gods! wink
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by TATIME: 7:05am On Aug 14
Maximus69:


God's Holy Spirit speaks through people {2Peter :21} but you won't agree because your Muhammad told you it's Gabriel that spoke to him so it's not easy to resolve this!

THEORIES
PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS and
BENEFITS

If you ask a lazy person to argue with a hard working man, the lazy will start bluffing like a twentieth century radio, no break next jam. An adage "empty bucket often makes the loudest noise", so you're going to keep arguing and arguing in support of what's not working out! grin



Tell your Jamaat or whatever to intensify their preaching and teaching skills so that people everywhere can SEE the benefits of your Allah in the adherents of your faith, then it will become obvious that Allah is God as he is able to organize his worshippers into a peaceful global family which everyone can SEE. Both Allah and Jehovah are invisible to the ordinary eye but with what each can make possible in the midst of his worshippers, everyone will know who is the active as in the living God! Otherwise it's all story for the gods! wink

The guy is suffering from misdirected zeal!

He wish his god is the Almighty, so instead of listening to reasonableness he is trying to fix a wrecked drowning ship.

Islam would have been the best option in the absence of Jehovah's Witnesses who have proved that RACISM and POLITICS can become like dead carcasses, and people from divers ethnicity tribes and tongues can worship together peacefully as one big family. Isaiah 2:1-4

It's just a pity that he's suffering this much, i empathize with him as he wishes to fetch worshippers for Allah but he never reason deeply to know that there is nothing like Allah if there's no particular group to present as the one and only Muslim organization that's practicing Islam in the right sense.

I know the group he is talking about but they're just like the revivalists who keeps staring former churchgoers to continue putting faith in the dead Trinity.
The group often gather in one place and after ranting for few hours they dispasses each to their homes. But one thing our friend failed to grasp is that the group in question have nothing to say to change the radical mentality of those claiming Muslims and they're not condemning the intolerance that's prevalence in the religion. So they're just exciting difficult sects of Islam to continue bowing down to Allah when adherents aren't benefiting at all from the so called worship!

Such a group if truthfully working out something tangible supposed to quench the rift between the so called Islamic nations, if truthfully Allah is at work in Islam! undecided
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Maximus69: 7:40am On Aug 14
TATIME:


The guy is suffering from misdirected zeal!

He wish his god is the Almighty, so instead of listening to reasonableness he is trying to fix a wrecked drowning ship.

Islam would have been the best option in the absence of Jehovah's Witnesses who have proved that RACISM and POLITICS can become like dead carcasses, and people from divers ethnicity tribes and tongues can worship together peacefully as one big family. Isaiah 2:1-4

It's just a pity that he's suffering this much, i empathize with him as he wishes to fetch worshippers for Allah but he never reason deeply to know that there is nothing like Allah if there's no particular group to present as the one and only Muslim organization that's practicing Islam in the right sense.

I know the group he is talking about but they're just like the revivalists who keeps staring former churchgoers to continue putting faith in the dead Trinity.
The group often gather in one place and after ranting for few hours they dispasses each to their homes. But one thing our friend failed to grasp is that the group in question have nothing to say to change the radical mentality of those claiming Muslims and they're not condemning the intolerance that's prevalence in the religion. So they're just exciting difficult sects of Islam to continue bowing down to Allah when adherents aren't benefiting at all from the so called worship!

Such a group if truthfully working out something tangible supposed to quench the rift between the so called Islamic nations, if truthfully Allah is at work in Islam! undecided


Good morning Sir,
The bolded is exactly what i've been trying to make him understand. It's either there's
¤ NO Peace in Islam

or

¤Allah is FAKE

or

¤Mohammad is FAKE

or

¤No Muslim nation

Those Arabians have brainwashed them to think that there are Christians nations and so they're also trying to establish Muslim nations. So Abdulgaffar keep arguing blindly that all those claiming Christians are Christians so it's appropriate to argue about the teachings!
I've told him several times that there is just one group that's practicing Christianity in the right sense and for any observer to fully grasp what Christ established and it's benefits, one should watch closely the activities of Jehovah's Witnesses, the bond between them, their ability to destroy RACISM, POLITIC, Materialism, pride, polygamy, fits of anger, juvenile delinquencies and so many other destructive elements that's devastating the human family today.

All what Abdulgaffar will say is "you must bow down to Allah inside a mosque" he didn't realize that the real sense of submission is NOT the hypocritical outward display but submission from the heart which will benefit both adherents and their none believing neighbours! undecided
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Abdulgaffar22: 8:27am On Aug 14
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Abdulgaffar22: 8:29am On Aug 14
Maximus69:


God's Holy Spirit speaks through people {2Peter :21} but you won't agree because your Muhammad told you it's Gabriel that spoke to him so it's not easy to resolve this!


2nd Peter 1:21 says;

"For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."

As you can see, the Holy Spirit did NOT speak through the people. People were moved by the
Spirit to speak what God inspired in them.

If the Holy Spirit speak through the people, then Holy Spirit also HEAR through the people ? Oh yes ?

Honestly, you are not going straight. My argument is this; if the spirit of truth in John 16 can SPEAK and can HEAR, do you still believe that the passage was referring to your God'sACTIVE FORCE ? If yes then you have to accept that your God's ACTIVE FORCE is a PERSON because it is only a person that can speak and can hear. Then who is this very PERSON ?

There are only two options for you. It is either you believe that this person is the 3rd person of Holy Trinity (God the Holy Spirit) or you believe this person to be Angel Gabriel that spoke to Muhammad(pbuh).
But if you have a third option, bring it to light. Stop digging around the bush; let us know the identity of this very person.

See how you are now having problems with your THEORY;

1. You are unable to defend that Jesus was a master worker of creation; it was Jehovah that gave series of commands (Genesis 1:1-31) and it was the same Jehovah that performed the work of Creation (Exodus 31:17, Genesis 2:2-3, Isaiah 44:24 NWT, Isaiah 48:13)

2. You are unable to deny the existence of hell fire that Jesus made mention in Matthew 25:41

3. You are in state of dilemma regarding the Spirit of truth made mentioned by Jesus in John 16:12-13: you don't want to accept the spirit as the 3rd person of Holy Trinity and you don't want to accept the spirit as Angel Gabriel. Yet it is certain that this spirit of truth is not an active force that can neither hear nor speak.

Even, if you think your PRACTICAL APPLICATION and BENEFIT are okay, your THEORY would make you to fall because according to your logic, the THREE must be complete. Beside, the theory is the foundation. If the foundation of a building is very WEAK, then the building would soon collapse no matter how beautiful the building may look in the eyes of its beholders.



Do you ever know that there is no any religious scripture that SPECIFICALLY condemned the doctrine of Trinity except Qur'an. Now, if you believed that Muhammad was motivated by Satan to come up with Qur'an, do you think Qur'an would condemn the doctrine of Trinity and affirm the oneness of God ? This is impossible because Satan cannot oppose himself ; "And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come(Mark 3:26)
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Maximus69: 11:02am On Aug 14
Abdulgaffar22:


2nd Peter 1:21 says;

"For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."
NJs you can see, the Holy Spirit did NOT speak through the people. People were moved by the
Spirit to speak what God inspired in them.

If the Holy Spirit speak through the people, then Holy Spirit also HEAR through the people ? Oh yes ?

Honestly, you are not going straight. My argument is this; if the spirit of truth in John 16 can SPEAK and can HEAR, do you still believe that the passage was referring to your God'sACTIVE FORCE ? If yes then you have to accept that your God's ACTIVE FORCE is a PERSON because it is only a person that can speak and can hear. Then who is this very PERSON ?

There are only two options for you. It is either you believe that this person is the 3rd person of Holy Trinity (God the Holy Spirit) or you believe this person to be Angel Gabriel that spoke to Muhammad(pbuh).
But if you have a third option, bring it to light. Stop digging around the bush; let us know the identity of this very person.

See how you are now having problems with your THEORY;

1. You are unable to defend that Jesus was a master worker of creation; it was Jehovah that gave series of commands (Genesis 1:1-31) and it was the same Jehovah that performed the work of Creation (Exodus 31:17, Genesis 2:2-3, Isaiah 44:24 NWT, Isaiah 48:13)

2. You are unable to deny the existence of hell fire that Jesus made mention in Matthew 25:41

3. You are in state of dilemma regarding the Spirit of truth made mentioned by Jesus in John 16:12-13: you don't want to accept the spirit as the 3rd person of Holy Trinity and you don't want to accept the spirit as Angel Gabriel. Yet it is certain that this spirit of truth is not an active force that can neither hear nor speak.

Even, if you think your PRACTICAL APPLICATION and BENEFIT are okay, your THEORY would make you to fall because according to your logic, the THREE must be complete. Beside, the theory is the foundation. If the foundation of a building is very WEAK, then the building would soon collapse no matter how beautiful the building may look in the eyes of its beholders.



Do you ever know that there is no any religious scripture that SPECIFICALLY condemned the doctrine of Trinity except Qur'an. Now, if you believed that Muhammad was motivated by Satan to come up with Qur'an, do you think Qur'an would condemn the doctrine of Trinity and affirm the oneness of God ? This is impossible because Satan cannot oppose himself ; "And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come(Mark 3:26)


It's you that's having problems with your Allah, Muhammad and Islam!

All you need to do now is analyse the Practical Application of your theories then you're free because it's left to those who are SEEING the Benefits of what you're presenting but refuse to act!

Theories
Practical Applications
Benefits

Any other things is just story for the gods! wink

Of course since you have your own theories just as i've got mine and the two totally differs, there's no way to reconcile both!
We will remain there arguing on the theories if we don't progress to the next step which is the Practical Applications so that everyone can see the Benefits of all the stories we're saying since! wink
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Abdulgaffar22: 11:54am On Aug 14
Maximus69:

It's you that's having problems with your Allah, Muhammad and Islam!




Instead of you to meet your elders in the
JW organization to see how the THREE THEORETICAL problems presented up there can be solved, you now resort to abusing Allah and his prophet. Well no problem ! We shall soon leave the surface of the Earth
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Maximus69: 12:54pm On Aug 14
Abdulgaffar22:




Instead of you to meet your elders in the
JW organization to see how the THREE THEORETICAL problems presented up there can be solved, you now resort to abusing Allah and his prophet. Well no problem ! We shall soon leave the surface of the Earth

Can you now see your problem? undecided

Your
Allah, Muhammad, Quran and Islam remains anonymous until a sincere and honesthearted observer is able to notice the Benefits of all the Theories and the Practical Applications that you're presenting ! undecided

You can now see why your folks always end up killing people when they're unable to convince them on those four subjects mentioned!

You don't need all these stress and endless arguments, because every religion on earth has it's Theories that's UNSEEN/Incomprehesible and the only way to change the mind of adherents of other faith is the obvious Benefits which they can't find elsewhere!

Your theory of punishment after death is of no relevance in this because what i read in my Bible is that Adam was nowhere before creation and at death he returns to none existence!

So that's why i said your Allah, Muhammad, Quran and Islam are your problems NOT that of someone who have nothing to do with all those theories in your brains! undecided
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by TATIME: 1:59pm On Aug 14
Maximus69:


Can you now see your problem? undecided

Your
Allah, Muhammad, Quran and Islam remains anonymous until a sincere and honesthearted observer is able to notice the Benefits of all the Theories and the Practical Applications that you're presenting ! undecided

You can now see why your folks always end up killing people when they're unable to convince them on those four subjects mentioned!

You don't need all these stress and endless arguments, because every religion on earth has it's Theories that's UNSEEN/Incomprehesible and the only way to change the mind of adherents of other faith is the obvious Benefits which they can't find elsewhere!

Your theory of punishment after death is of no relevance in this because what i read in my Bible is that Adam was nowhere before creation and at death he returns to none existence!

So that's why i said your Allah, Muhammad, Quran and Islam are your problems NOT that of someone who have nothing to do with all those theories in your brains! undecided


It's just a pity seeing people having misdirected zeal!

The guy really feel like helping people to worship the one and only true God, but he's not completely equipped for the task!
He thought simply arguing with people over what he was taught is enough, not knowing that it will take much more than written documents to change people's minds now that there are countless contradicting documents all thought to have been inspired by God!
And to worsen the matter, there are thousands of religious title holders compilating the issue with conflicting teachings that's not applicable anywhere, and if forcefully applied, there will be nothing like heartfelt dedication since adherents aren't enjoying any benefits! . embarassed
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Maximus69: 2:50pm On Aug 14
TATIME:


It's just a pity seeing people having misdirected zeal!

The guy really feel like helping people to worship the one and only true God, but he's not completely equipped for the task!
He thought simply arguing with people over what he was taught is enough, not knowing that it will take much more than written documents to change people's minds now that there are countless contradicting documents all thought to have been inspired by God!
And to worsen the matter, there are thousands of religious title holders compilating the issue with conflicting teachings that's not applicable anywhere, and if forcefully applied, there will be nothing like heartfelt dedication since adherents aren't enjoying any benefits! . embarassed

That's it Sir,
The same threat as usual "If you disagree with what i'm telling you, God will torment you {ALIVE} forever inside fire"
The same old story for the gods! cheesy
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Abdulgaffar22: 5:42pm On Aug 14
Maximus69:


That's it Sir,
The same threat as usual "If you disagree with what i'm telling you, God will torment you {ALIVE} forever inside fire"
The same old story for the gods! cheesy

Are you saying there is no hell fire?
What do you have to say about the verse below found in your own scripture ?
"Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me,+ you who have been cursed, into the EVERLASTING FIRE+ prepared for the Devil and his angels.+ (Matthew 25:41 NWT)

Honestly I don't understand your belief because you are denying something in the book you have accepted to guide you in your affairs
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Emusan(m): 7:14pm On Aug 14
I quoted this part just to show you the reason I usually say JWs are very hypocrite in nature and as a reference!

Maximus69:
When Peter declared that Jesus is the son of God, who did Jesus said spoke through Peter? Matthew 16:17

Sorry Mr Muhammadan it's God's Holy Spirit that spoke through Peter, that's why Satan also spoke immediately through the same Peter {Matthew 16:21-23}

Nothing spoke through Peter when Jesus asked that question instead it was REVEALED to him

Jesus said "It was Father who REVEALED it..."

Even the guy has to educate you about 1Peter you wrongly alluded to...SMH

From your statement it's evident that Holy Spirit is God since you can agree that it was Holy Spirit who spoke when Jesus talked about the Father...

The evidence from the scripture atimes The Father Himself will speak without Holy Spirit in action...which shows that the two are separate.

The last part also shows how dubious you people can be just to defend your demonic doctrines.

You said, Holy Spirit that is an active force spoke through Peter as well as SATAN who is a PERSON also spoke through Peter.

Whereas, one of the reasons your organization rejected the personhood of the Holy Spirit is the claim that a person can't speak through another person.

But here out of curiosity to continue to defend lies, you agree that a person (Satan) can actually speak through another person.

Just see how Satan is using your salvation to play ludo...
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Maximus69: 8:15pm On Aug 14
Abdulgaffar22:


Are you saying there is no hell fire?
What do you have to say about the verse below found in your own scripture ?
"Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me,+ you who have been cursed, into the EVERLASTING FIRE+ prepared for the Devil and his angels.+ (Matthew 25:41 NWT)

Honestly I don't understand your belief because you are denying something in the book you have accepted to guide you in your affairs

Jesus spoke in parables as in illustrations, so if you're not one of us you can't understand what our Master, Lord and King was teaching through the use of illustrations! Matthew 13:3-13

But we his true followers know that Jesus as the one who Created all things can't contradict what was written, Creatures aren't immortal so they can't live forever.
Everlasting life is the gift of God NOT for all creatures except those who proved to be God's children! Romans 6:23

So it's funny seeing all of you confused due to Jesus' illustrations instead of trying to correlate what you're reading with all the promises of God in the Hebrew/Aramaic scriptures {Old Testament}! wink

Mumuscious people concluded that since Jesus mentioned fire, then God must create another place for evildoers to exist forever! cheesy
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Maximus69: 8:19pm On Aug 14
Emusan:
I quoted this part just to show you the reason I usually say JWs are very hypocrite in nature and as a reference!



Nothing spoke through Peter when Jesus asked that question instead it was REVEALED to him

Jesus said "It was Father who REVEALED it..."

Even the guy has to educate you about 1Peter you wrongly alluded to...SMH

From your statement it's evident that Holy Spirit is God since you can agree that it was Holy Spirit who spoke when Jesus talked about the Father...

The evidence from the scripture atimes The Father Himself will speak without Holy Spirit in action...which shows that the two are separate.

The last part also shows how dubious you people can be just to defend your demonic doctrines.

You said, Holy Spirit that is an active force spoke through Peter as well as SATAN who is a PERSON also spoke through Peter.

Whereas, one of the reasons your organization rejected the personhood of the Holy Spirit is the claim that a person can't speak through another person.

But here out of curiosity to continue to defend lies, you agree that a person (Satan) can actually speak through another person.

Just see how Satan is using your salvation to play ludo...

Our organization has spoken!

Your folks say it's not so!

Please let the whole world SEE the Benefits{Matthew 5:14-16} of what you're teaching instead of arguing arguing arguing! James 2:18-26 cheesy
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Emusan(m): 8:49pm On Aug 14
Maximus69:
Our organization has spoken!

Your folks say it's not so!

Please let the whole world SEE the Benefits{Matthew 5:14-16} of what you're teaching instead of arguing arguing arguing! James 2:18-26 cheesy

Your organization has spoken then isn't it evident that you and your organization are liars?

Your organization claimed a person can't speak through another person but you say yes a person can...

Isn't this benefit you're showing the whole world?

The person who spends his whole life on NL not even on another section but Religion section arguing virtually on every thread is accusing someone of arguing arguing....hypocrite!
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Abdulgaffar22: 10:29pm On Aug 14
Maximus69:


Jesus spoke in parables as in illustrations, so if you're not one of us you can't understand what our Master, Lord and King was teaching through the use of illustrations! Matthew 13:3-13

But we his true followers know that Jesus as the one who Created all things can't contradict what was written, Creatures aren't immortal so they can't live forever.
Everlasting life is the gift of God NOT for all creatures except those who proved to be God's children! Romans 6:23

So it's funny seeing all of you confused due to Jesus' illustrations instead of trying to correlate what you're reading with all the promises of God in the Hebrew/Aramaic scriptures {Old Testament}! wink

Mumuscious people concluded that since Jesus mentioned fire, then God must create another place for evildoers to exist forever! cheesy



I have taken my time to read the whole Matthew 25:1-46. See below;


25:1 "At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.
25:2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise.
25:3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them.
25:4 The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps.
25:5 The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
25:6 "At midnight the cry rang out: 'Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!'
25:7 "Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps.
25:8 The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.'
25:9 "'No,' they replied, 'there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.'
25:10 "But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
25:11 "Later the others also came. 'Sir! Sir!' they said. 'Open the door for us!'
25:12 "But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I don't know you.'
25:13 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
25:14 "Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them.
25:15 To one he gave five talents of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey.
25:16 The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more.
25:17 So also, the one with the two talents gained two more.
25:18 But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.
25:19 "After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them.
25:20 The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.'
25:21 "His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
25:22 "The man with the two talents also came. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.'
25:23 "His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
25:24 "Then the man who had received the one talent came. 'Master,' he said, 'I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed.
25:25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.'
25:26 "His master replied, 'You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed?
25:27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
25:28 "'Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents.
25:29 For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.
25:30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory.
25:32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
25:33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
25:34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
25:36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
25:37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
25:38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
25:39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
25:40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
25:42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
25:43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
25:44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
25:45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."


You can see that the first parable is Matthew 25:1-12 while the second parable is Matthew 25:14-30.

So Matthew 25:41 which mention ETERNAL FIRE is not included in the parable.

Again look at the last verse Matthew 25:46 . You will notice that there is CORRESPONDENCE between this verse and Matthew 25:41 quoted above. So that passage really mention an ETERNAL FIRE. It is not a parable. Read it again by yourself
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Maximus69: 10:55pm On Aug 14
Emusan:


Your organization has spoken then isn't it evident that you and your organization are liars?

Your organization claimed a person CAN'T speak through another person but you say yes a person can...

Isn't this benefit you're showing the whole world?

The person who spends his whole life on NL not even on another section but Religion section arguing virtually on every thread is accusing someone of arguing arguing....hypocrite!

@bolded Sir

You're wrong!

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that all what we're preaching and teaching people today is as a result of God's Holy Spirit speaking through adherents.
Though most people like you may like to argue this because JWs aren't spirits rather we're human with flesh and blood so there's no fleshly desires that can't be found if you're observing our members.

But Only Jehovah's Witnesses have successfully eradicate Politics and Racism in our midst!

Well Jesus said that's the sign that God's Holy Spirit is at work in our midst! John 13:34-35, 17:20-23, James 2:18-26

If you argue from today till tomorrow, Isaiah said only God's Holy Spirit can make that possible! Isaiah 2:1-4 smiley

So if you don't believe that the Holy Spirit is the one speaking through us, well sincere and honesthearted observers will testify to the WORKS of the Spirit that's commanding us so that we are able to do what no other group can do!
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by sonmvayina(m): 11:02pm On Aug 14
See people putting our creator and Jesus in the same category.. We go stay long for this our Egypt.. Our suffer never start, God go so punish us till we get sense and actually find him and go on our knees and beg for forgiveness.... In the mean time, let us continue worshipping a god the Roman Empire created to deceive people.....
This matrix we have created will continue to be our reality...
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Maximus69: 11:10pm On Aug 14
Abdulgaffar22:


I have taken my time to read the whole Matthew 25:1-46. See below;


25:1 "At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.
25:2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise.
25:3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them.
25:4 The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps.
25:5 The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
25:6 "At midnight the cry rang out: 'Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!'
25:7 "Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps.
25:8 The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.'
25:9 "'No,' they replied, 'there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.'
25:10 "But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
25:11 "Later the others also came. 'Sir! Sir!' they said. 'Open the door for us!'
25:12 "But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I don't know you.'
25:13 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
25:14 "Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them.
25:15 To one he gave five talents of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey.
25:16 The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more.
25:17 So also, the one with the two talents gained two more.
25:18 But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.
25:19 "After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them.
25:20 The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.'
25:21 "His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
25:22 "The man with the two talents also came. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.'
25:23 "His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
25:24 "Then the man who had received the one talent came. 'Master,' he said, 'I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed.
25:25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.'
25:26 "His master replied, 'You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed?
25:27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
25:28 "'Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents.
25:29 For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.
25:30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory.
25:32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
25:33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
25:34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
25:36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
25:37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
25:38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
25:39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
25:40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
25:42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
25:43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
25:44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
25:45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."


You can see that the first parable is Matthew 25:1-12 while the second parable is Matthew 25:14-30.

So Matthew 25:41 which mention ETERNAL FIRE is not included in the parable.

Again look at the last verse Matthew 25:46 . You will notice that there is CORRESPONDENCE between this verse and Matthew 25:41 quoted above. So that passage really mention an ETERNAL FIRE. It is not a parable. Read it again by yourself



My Imam back in Islam said "You can't read the Quran and fully grasp it's meaning on your own without the tuition of an Islamic cleric"

I know you'll shy away and say it's not true now! cheesy

But the truth is if you're getting the sense of something, the, only proof is when you're able to achieve the result NOT just mimicking whatever you find in the pages of the Bible and deceiving yourself that you've understood it!

Nobody is saying you can't read any part of that book containing 1189 chapters and 31,200 verses Sir, but it is the RESULT of what you've able to do with the writings that will prove to everyone that you fully grasp what you're reading!

Jesus said the GROUP that have succeeded in getting the sense of the sacred secrets and those just mimicking the words found in it's passages will be both become obvious by their fruit Matthew 7:15-20

Only Jehovah's Witnesses have successfully formed a happy global family of peace-loving worshippers {John 17:20-23} so there's no more reason to keep arguing Sir! cheesy
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Emusan(m): 6:27am On Aug 15
Maximus69:


@bolded Sir

You're wrong!

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that all what we're preaching and teaching people today is as a result of God's Holy Spirit speaking through adherents.
Though most people like you may like to argue this because JWs aren't spirits rather we're human with flesh and blood so there's no fleshly desires that can't be found if you're observing our members.

But Only Jehovah's Witnesses have successfully eradicate Politics and Racism in our midst!

Well Jesus said that's the sign that God's Holy Spirit is at work in our midst! John 13:34-35, 17:20-23, James 2:18-26

If you argue from today till tomorrow, Isaiah said only God's Holy Spirit can make that possible! Isaiah 2:1-4 smiley

So if you don't believe that the Holy Spirit is the one speaking through us, well sincere and honesthearted observers will testify to the WORKS of the Spirit that's commanding us so that we are able to do what no other group can do!

That's why you'll continue to be Olodo....and act like a robot! No one has ever discussed with you on this forum and hasn't noticed your drain brain method of replying.

Is Holy Spirit a person?

I made it clear that one of the reasons your organization denied the PERSONHOOD of the Holy Spirit is that, they claimed since Holy Spirit said to be SPEAKING THROUGH another person then He can't be a personal. One PERSON can't speak through another Person.

See how you're just disgracing yourself on a very simple plain statement.

So now that you said Devil (a person) spoke through Peter, isn't it evident that Holy Spirit is also a person speaking through people from ages?

Or you can retract your stand about Devil speaking through someone?
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Maximus69: 6:49am On Aug 15
Emusan:


That's why you'll continue to be Olodo....and act like a robot! No one has ever discussed with you on this forum and hasn't noticed your drain brain method of replying.

Is Holy Spirit a person?

I made it clear that one of the reasons your organization denied the PERSONHOOD of the Holy Spirit is that, they claimed since Holy Spirit said to be SPEAKING THROUGH another person then He can't be a personal. One PERSON can't speak through another Person.

See how you're just disgracing yourself on a very simple plain statement.

So now that you said Devil (a person) spoke through Peter, isn't it evident that Holy Spirit is also a person speaking through people from ages?

Or you can retract your stand about Devil speaking through someone?

Please calm down Mr Emusan.

We're not fighting here, neither are we trying to argue here for a winner to emerge. What we're trying to do is setting matters straight so that everyone can learn something of benefit! 2Timothy 3:16-17

God is a Spirit {Matthew 4:24} but he has a place where he is sitting on a throne {1Kings 8:43} whatever he wants to accomplish with any of his visible creatures he sends out his active force to make such creatures do things that's beyond their natural gift. 1kings 18:46

Angels are spirits themselves, they can't do what God does with other creatures but they can overthrown the creatures personality, hypnotising such creatures and acting in their stead. Genesis 3:1-5 compared to Luke 4:34

That's what we're saying Sir!

So while God's holy spirit {active force} energizes creatures to do things totally different from their nature {Numbers 22:28} angels as spirits can enter into a person and start dragging such a person to say or do things that ordinarily he/she won't have done under normal circumstances! Act 18:16-18

Thanks Sir, may God bless you!
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Abdulgaffar22: 8:22am On Aug 15
Maximus69:


My Imam back in Islam said "You can't read the Quran and fully grasp it's meaning on your own without the tuition of an Islamic cleric"

How are you sure that your Imam was right ?

Maximus69:


But the truth is if you're getting the sense of something, the, only proof is when you're able to achieve the result NOT just mimicking whatever you find in the pages of the Bible and deceiving yourself that you've understood it!

Nobody is saying you can't read any part of that book containing 1189 chapters and 31,200 verses Sir, but it is the RESULT of what you've able to do with the writings that will prove to everyone that you fully grasp what you're reading!

If you have fully grasped what you are reading, then tell us the actual meaning of EVERLASTING FIRE in Matthew 25:41, Mark 9:43, Luke 16:24 and EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT in Matthew 25:46
Maximus69:


Only Jehovah's Witnesses have successfully formed a happy global family of peace-loving worshippers {John 17:20-23} so there's no more reason to keep arguing Sir! cheesy

Jesus simply said with NO ADDITION ;
I pray also for THOSE WHO WILL BELIEVE IN ME through their message (John 17:20) that ALL OF THEM MAY BE ONE (John 17:21) ; not only a small portion( 8.5 million out of 2.3 billion)
Do all other Christians not believe in Jesus through the message of the Gospel ?
So your argument amounts to nothing because all other Christians also believe in Jesus through the message of the Gospel. Therefore, John 17:20-23 is NOT ONLY meant for the watch tower organisation. It is meant for the WHOLE Christian world.
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Abdulgaffar22: 9:49am On Aug 15
If you believe that Jehovah witnesses have practical application, then for how long does a young woman must be wait before remarry after losing her husband and for how long does a young man must be wait before remarry after losing her wife ? (Answer with scriptural evidence)

Again, what are the minimum parts of the female body that must be covered for her to dress with modesty ? (Answer with scriptural evidence)

Furthermore, how are we to share a Large properties of a deceased that has wife, children, parents and relatives given that he did not write any will due to unexpected death ?( Answer with scriptural evidence)

In addition, what is the maximum period of time for keeping the deceased before the burial rites?(Answer with scriptural evidence)
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Maximus69: 5:39pm On Aug 15
Abdulgaffar22:

How are you sure that your Imam was right ?



If you have fully grasped what you are reading, then tell us the actual meaning of EVERLASTING FIRE in Matthew 25:41, Mark 9:43, Luke 16:24 and EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT in Matthew 25:46


Jesus simply said with NO ADDITION ;
I pray also for THOSE WHO WILL BELIEVE IN ME through their message (John 17:20) that ALL OF THEM MAY BE ONE (John 17:21) ; not only a small portion( 8.5 million out of 2.3 billion)
Do all other Christians not believe in Jesus through the message of the Gospel ?
So your argument amounts to nothing because all other Christians also believe in Jesus through the message of the Gospel. Therefore, John 17:20-23 is NOT ONLY meant for the watch tower organisation. It is meant for the WHOLE Christian world

@bolded
You're the accuser and at the same time the judge! right? cheesy

Someone gave evidence of his legitimacy and show you why others claiming children of the same man {his father} aren't of the same blood. Yet you're insisting that those infidels who aren't performing the expected duties required are of the same man just to refute what you're seeing.
Well it's still your problem Sir, Jehovah's Witnesses have made themselves clear before everyone! wink
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Maximus69: 5:44pm On Aug 15
Abdulgaffar22:
If you believe that Jehovah witnesses have practical application, then for how long does a young woman must be wait before remarry after losing her husband and for how long does a young man must be wait before remarry after losing her wife ? (Answer with scriptural evidence)

Again, what are the minimum parts of the female body that must be covered for her to dress with modesty ? (Answer with scriptural evidence)

Furthermore, how are we to share a Large properties of a deceased that has wife, children, parents and relatives given that he did not write any will due to unexpected death ?( Answer with scriptural evidence)

In addition, what is the maximum period of time for keeping the deceased before the burial rites?(Answer with scriptural evidence)

Please Sir, you've got no problem with me. Just go and do whatever your Allah tell you regarding all these, as for me and 8.5 million other individuals from different parts of the globe, we're OK with all what our JEHOVAH through the GB asked us to do!

So far we're able to meet up with the requirements of one body as in a happy global family of peace-loving worshippers, we are OK! wink
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Abdulgaffar22: 11:23pm On Aug 15
Maximus69:

@bolded
You're the accuser and at the same time the judge! right? cheesy

Someone gave evidence of his legitimacy and show you why others claiming children of the same man {his father} aren't of the same blood. Yet you're insisting that those infidels who aren't performing the expected duties required are of the same man just to refute what you're seeing.
Well it's still your problem Sir, Jehovah's Witnesses have made themselves clear before everyone! wink

You argument would have been meaningful, if Jesus have said ; I pray also for THOSE WHO WILL BELIEVE IN ME AND WORK FOR ME through their message (John 17:20) that ALL OF THEM MAY BE ONE (John 17:21).

But Jesus did NOT include "AND WORK FOR ME".

He simply and only said "WHO WILL BELIEVE IN ME through their message"

Since all Christian world believe in Jesus through the message of the Gospel delivered by the apostles, then according to this passage, ALL CHRISTIAN WORLD MUST BE ONE without any division whatsoever.

Therefore, the FAILURE of this very Jesus' prayer to be answered is a very strong evidence that Jesus NEVER utter such words because the fervent prayer of a righteous man AVAILS MUCH (James 5:16) let alone the prayer made by Jesus, one of the most dearest to God.

This is exactly what we expect because Jesus himself has already declared ; I WAS SENT ONLY TO THE LOST SHEEP OF ISRAEL(Matthew 15:24). So he could not have been the same person that would be again sent to the entire Christian world talk less of praying for their complete unity.
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by OnyeOGA(m): 12:12am On Aug 16
If you truly believe in god. You should also acknowledge other over 3000 gods across cultures and traditions
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Maximus69: 9:05am On Aug 16
Abdulgaffar22:


You argument would have been meaningful, if Jesus have said ; I pray also for THOSE WHO WILL BELIEVE IN ME AND WORK FOR ME through their message (John 17:20) that ALL OF THEM MAY BE ONE (John 17:21).

But Jesus did NOT include "AND WORK FOR ME".

He simply and only said "WHO WILL BELIEVE IN ME through their message"

Since all Christian world believe in Jesus through the message of the Gospel delivered by the apostles, then according to this passage, ALL CHRISTIAN WORLD MUST BE ONE without any division whatsoever.

Therefore, the FAILURE of this very Jesus' prayer to be answered is a very strong evidence that Jesus NEVER utter such words because the fervent prayer of a righteous man AVAILS MUCH (James 5:16) let alone the prayer made by Jesus, one of the most dearest to God.

This is exactly what we expect because Jesus himself has already declared ; I WAS SENT ONLY TO THE LOST SHEEP OF ISRAEL(Matthew 15:24). So he could not have been the same person that would be again sent to the entire Christian world talk less of praying for their complete unity.

Can you see the bolded?

That's where your problem is hiding Sir! wink

So for you to solve it, you really need to first find the accurate understanding of the word BELIEVE!

But let me put you through perhaps like a guide! smiley

For instance, i claim to believe in Muhammad that he is a prophet of God, i believe God sent him into the world to show mankind the way to heaven, i believe that if i also join in the Salat it's enough to show God that i am exercising faith in the teachings of God's prophet.
But all the instructions that Muhammad gave to his faithful disciples i finds it odd and old fashioned, so i preferred associating with just any group of persons claiming to be Muslims for the fun of it, while i crookedly select whatever PLEASES me in the teachings of Muhammad {the one i myself professed with my own mouth that God sent to teach me}
Do i truthfully BELIEVE in Muhammad? cheesy
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Abdulgaffar22: 9:07am On Aug 16
OnyeOGA:
If you truly believe in god. You should also acknowledge other over 3000 gods across cultures and traditions

Are you having problem with believing in one supreme God ? Let me know so that I can assist you
Re: The Problem Of Who Is God And Who Is The Creator Are Yet To Be Resolved by Abdulgaffar22: 10:00am On Aug 16
Maximus69:


Can you see the bolded?

That's where your problem is hiding Sir! wink

So for you to solve it, you really need to first find the accurate understanding of the word BELIEVE!

But let me put you through perhaps like a guide! smiley

For instance, i claim to believe in Muhammad that he is a prophet of God, i believe God sent him into the world to show mankind the way to heaven, i believe that if i also join in the Salat it's enough to show God that i am exercising faith in the teachings of God's prophet.
But all the instructions that Muhammad gave to his faithful disciples i finds it odd and old fashioned, so i preferred associating with just any group of persons claiming to be Muslims for the fun of it, while i crookedly select whatever PLEASES me in the teachings of Muhammad {the one i myself professed with my own mouth that God sent to teach me}
Do i truthfully BELIEVE in Muhammad? cheesy



Of course, there are also many weak Muslims who do not use to observe their prayer on regular basis and very negligent in following the teachings of the prophet. But yet we cannot say they do not believe in Muhammad (pbuh). We can only say they do not truthfully believe in him.

But Jesus did not say; THOSE WHO WILL TRUTHFULLY BELIEVE IN ME through their message.

He simply said THOSE WHO WILL BELIEVE IN ME.

Furthermore, that Jesus'prayer in John 17:20-23 has been in existence BEFORE the existence of the Christian world. Therefore, if Jesus truly utter this prayer, then God must have accepted it. Hence, we will not even see any Christian that would not truthfully believe in Jesus. In fact, God Almighty would have prevented the doctrine of Trinity from being established in the first instance. But this is not so.
This simply show that Jesus never prayed for the complete unity of the Christian world. This is because he was never sent to the world. By his own admission; I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel (Matthew 15:24). If Jesus already knew that he would later be sent to the entire world, he would not have said this statement in Matthew 15:24. He would have simply told that Canaanite woman; "it is not yet time for the Gentiles" instead of saying he was sent only to the Israelites (Matthew 15:22-24)

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