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Swissh:
I've been in many debates on the subject of religion with atheists, but I've never seen a debate on religion actually result in someone changing their mind. Being that religion is something that is very faith-based, it can cause a loop of what-ifs and what-if-nots. When a debate has no effect on perspective and can be so open ended that no point made is entirely rooted in fact, does the debate have a point? While there may be no shift in ideals or perspective, it can open ones mind to understand or at least respect the opposing viewpoint. As a Christian, I understand that there is little evidence I can give that proves my faith, and that what exists is very vague. I'm interested to hear another person's take on this as religious debates grow increasingly aggressive and that we live in a time where people are divided by their ideals.

The fact that you have no evidence is a point rooted in fact. You have to be deliberately missing the point not to see that.

LordReed:


The fact that you have no evidence is a point rooted in fact. You have to be deliberately missing the point not to see that.

I don't follow!

Swissh:

I don't follow!

You said:

Swissh:
. As a Christian, I understand that there is little evidence I can give that proves my faith, and that what exists is very vague.

Is fact is it not?

LordReed:

You said:


Is fact is it not?

Yes in response to debating with atheist

Swissh:

Yes in response to debating with atheist

Which is a direct contradiction of:

Swissh:
When a debate has no effect on perspective and can be so open ended that no point made is entirely rooted in fact,

Your lack of evidence is rooted in fact.

LordReed:


Which is a direct contradiction of:



Your lack of evidence is rooted in fact.

Yes fact because you cannot use the Bible which christians belief in to argue logically with atheist

Yes OP you’re right. Arguing with a religious person requires faith while arguing with an atheist requires facts!

A religious person argues based on faith, false hope and fear. So this would be a one sided debate

Swissh:

Yes fact because you cannot use the Bible which christians belief in to argue logically with atheist

It's not so much that you can't use the bible, as the bible has no evidence for its claims. The most apparent one should have been evidence of a global flood and fossils of animals like the kangaroo in the middle east. None of these exist.

LordReed:


It's not so much that you can't use the bible, as the bible has no evidence for its claims. The most apparent one should have been evidence of a global flood and fossils of animals like the kangaroo in the middle east. None of these exist.

In Christianity, the Bible gives a solid definition of faith. Hebrews 13:8(KJV) says, "Now, faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
In scientific terms, evidence is the support of a hypothesis, and is expected to be empirical.
In Christianity, faith is empirical in the sense that, just like in science, it is supported by others having it too.
In science, people have faith in the sense that, believers in science over religion do not understand all science. They must take the word of others who have studied x subject.
Conclusion: To a degre believers in science have faith in scientists who know things they don't but, in Christianity, faith is literally the evidence.

Swissh:


In Christianity, the Bible gives a solid definition of faith. Hebrews 13:8(KJV) says, "Now, faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
In scientific terms, evidence is the support of a hypothesis, and is expected to be empirical.
In Christianity, faith is empirical in the sense that, just like in science, it is supported by others having it too.
In science, people have faith in the sense that, believers in science over religion do not understand all science. They must take the word of others who have studied x subject.
Conclusion: To a degre believers in science have faith in scientists who know things they don't but, in Christianity, faith is literally the evidence.

This is what is called an equivocation fallacy. You are fudging definitions so that they mean nothing like what they are used to define just to prove your point. No scientist will ever require anybody to have faith or believe the facts they are presenting because facts do not require faith or belief, they are a part of our shared reality. Saying faith is like empirical evidence is nonsensical because there is no way of confirming if someone has faith or not. Not even Christians accept other Christians as having faith because there is no direct way of testing it so an evangelical will say a catholic has no faith, a catholic will say an Anglican has no faith and on and on.

Swissh:
I've been in many debates on the subject of religion with atheists, but I've never seen a debate on religion actually result in someone changing their mind. Being that religion is something that is very faith-based, it can cause a loop of what-ifs and what-if-nots. When a debate has no effect on perspective and can be so open ended that no point made is entirely rooted in fact, does the debate have a point? While there may be no shift in ideals or perspective, it can open ones mind to understand or at least respect the opposing viewpoint. As a Christian, I understand that there is little evidence I can give that proves my faith, and that what exists is very vague. I'm interested to hear another person's take on this as religious debates grow increasingly aggressive and that we live in a time where people are divided by their ideals.

Hmmmmmmmmm that's really touching!

Well the truth is Faith is not about argument {Philippians 2:14} it's about dropping few points that will leave your audience in a situation where they will have to beg for more! John 4:40

That means you must have enough points to say that's convincing beyond every reasonable doubt when you're loaded with useful information! Act 26:28

So if your presentation doesn't have a lasting effect on your audience, that means you're not yet a REAL Christian. Hebrews 4:12
Most people feel they can become a Christian simply by joining any reputable religious group and start worshiping with them, but there is just one single organization throughout the globe having that powerful message that can change people's minds for real!

When you're one of us, you'll always feel like helping those who are not with us, though we're the most vilified religious group on this planet but you'll not be able to keep silent with all the helpful info in your mind {Jeremiah 20:9}

When we preach, it's just a few minutes presentation, our message is so powerful that nobody listens to our presentation without having a second thought if he/she is not one of us!

The only problem we're having is so many misinformed people claiming Christians and all the false information they've spread abroad regarding true faith, this is what has affected so many people that they now feel there's nothing to miss if you're not a Christian.
But the fact is Christianity is the one and only way to lasting bliss! Matthew 5:3, Luke 11:28

God bless you!

LordReed:


This is what is called an equivocation fallacy. You are fudging definitions so that they mean nothing like what they are used to define just to prove your point. No scientist will ever require anybody to have faith or believe the facts they are presenting because facts do not require faith or belief, they are a part of our shared reality. Saying faith is like empirical evidence is nonsensical because there is no way of confirming if someone has faith or not. Not even Christians accept other Christians as having faith because there is no direct way of testing it so an evangelical will say a catholic has no faith, a catholic will say an Anglican has no faith and on and on.

Professor LordReed Sir!

@bolded, You lied there!

Because there is a direct way of testing to ascertain TRUE Christianity and i've presented it to you countless times but due to the fact that you don't want anyone or anything to guide you and you feel like guiding others you keep running away from the TRUTH! Romans 10:2-4

So you'll keep arguing and arguing for nothing since you don't want to agree with the fact that the only reason people discuss like this is to form one line of thought, you're arguing that such a thing is useless yet you've not given up trying to convince others. Please for what purpose? Job 5:13

Maximus69:


Professor LordReed Sir!

@bolded, You lied there!

Because there is a direct way of testing to ascertain TRUE Christianity and i've presented it to you countless times but due to the fact that you don't want anyone or anything to guide you and you feel like guiding others you keep running away from the TRUTH! Romans 10:2-4

Ah yes the only true Christian from the only true Christian sect. LMFAO! Thank you for proving my point.

So you'll keep arguing and arguing for nothing since you don't want to agree with the fact that the only reason people discuss like this is to form one line of thought, you're arguing that such a thing is useless yet you've not given up trying to convince others. Please for what purpose? Job 5:13

And how is this your problem?

LordReed:

Ah yes the only true Christian from the only true Christian sect. LMFAO! Thank you for proving my point.
And how is this your problem?

@bolded

Only believers in God can justifiably stand to convince others regarding a change of mind!

Whereas atheists are supposed to appreciate all sort of ideas since you guys are advocates of free thinking!

Swissh:
I've been in many debates on the subject of religion with atheists, but I've never seen a debate on religion actually result in someone changing their mind. Being that religion is something that is very faith-based, it can cause a loop of what-ifs and what-if-nots. When a debate has no effect on perspective and can be so open ended that no point made is entirely rooted in fact, does the debate have a point? While there may be no shift in ideals or perspective, it can open ones mind to understand or at least respect the opposing viewpoint. As a Christian, I understand that there is little evidence I can give that proves my faith, and that what exists is very vague. I'm interested to hear another person's take on this as religious debates grow increasingly aggressive and that we live in a time where people are divided by their ideals.

Two of my friends are now atheist, just from my agreements and discussion. Some need a little push to have deep, rational scrutiny of their faith.

Maximus69:


@bolded

Only believers in God can justifiably stand to convince others regarding a change of mind!

Whereas atheists are supposed to appreciate all sort of ideas since you guys are advocates of free thinking!

LoL! Using style to tell me to shut up so you can preach your god. Kole werk. If it pains you so much go tell your god to shut me up.

Reality11:


Two of my friends are now atheist, just from my agreements and discussion. Some need a little push to have deep, rational scrutiny of their faith.

Atheism is just another religion on its own!

When we're talking about believers, most people assume it must be someone who worships somewhere but truthfully speaking that's a lie!

There are billions claiming believers who are atheistic on the inside and there are many claiming atheists who are believers from the heart.

It takes the power of discernment to grasp this!

Atheism began when Adam and Eve decided to liberate themselves from their Creator, they chose to become their own counselors and frankly demanded privacy from the one who owns everything! That was the beginning of Atheism, so it doesn't matter whether someone has seen, heard or experience God in action or not. An atheist just want to be absolutely free anyway!
Most atheists are pretenders, hiding in religious organizations and perpetrating all sort of evil, nobody can label them as atheist as long as they're claiming believers. It's their deeds that will prove they don't really think there's anything called God!

True believers may be found in any group no matter how degrading the ideology of such a group, Witches, Wizards, Cultists, Armed robbers, Hired killers, Ritualists and so on.
But how are we going to fish them out?
It's by inculcating in their minds the fine prospect God had in mind for humans! Most of them joined all these evil groups out of hopelessness but once they grab the Good News of a brighter future, they'll fall on their knees and start begging to know if they can still make it as part of the beneficiaries of Paradise despite all the atrocities they've committed in the past! Luke 23:42-43

Jesus referred to these ones as the lost sheep of the house of Israel, they just need to know the truth about God and his purpose for life. That's why Satan quickly initiated so many false religious groups to blur people's minds and discourage honesthearted individuals, who might be claiming atheists simply because of all the atrocities committed by the REAL atheists {religious misrepresentations} hypocritically claiming believers!

LordReed:


LoL! Using style to tell me to shut up so you can preach your god. Kole werk. If it pains you so much go tell your god to shut me up.

NO! NO!! NO!!!

It's just the power of higher intellect Sir!

Simple as ABC!

You can't stand up against a concept and yet INDIRECLY advocating for the same concept. If you're saying everyone should be allowed to think freely then there's no reason trying to correct the thoughts of other intelligent beings like you!

With all due respect my honourable Professor LordReed Sir, that's just the fact!

@Reality11,

The Real atheists are worshippers of a god, though few of them are direct agents of this god and knows whom they're worshipping!

Many of them own religious institutions because they must disguise as worshippers of the true God before they can really recruit followers. Their god has two groups, the larger fold are locked up in false religious organizations while the other sincere and honesthearted few left after lots and lots of disappointments, so this few are those publicly declaring themselves atheists!

So our own job is to find sincere and honesthearted ones who had been cheated, robbed, bruised to show them where they supposed to be if they truthfully want to perceive the true God in action!

Maximus69:


NO! NO!! NO!!!

It's just the power of higher intellect Sir!

Simple as ABC!

You can't stand up against a concept and yet INDIRECLY advocating for the same concept. If you're saying everyone should be allowed to think freely then there's no reason trying to correct the thoughts of other intelligent beings like you!

With all due respect my honourable Professor LordReed Sir, that's just the fact!

So you are advocating people should not be free to think?

LordReed:


So you are advocating people should not be free to think?

What are you advocating Sir?

Maximus69:


What are you advocating Sir?

Can you answer my question first?

I don't argue with theists in other to change their mind or perception. You can never change a bigoted mind. I argue mainly for my audience to see the loopholes in such ridiculous beliefs and take an atheistic stance.

While arguing, hundreds and thousands are following up on the argument and analyzing who is actually objective or not.

It's not about the opponent, it's about the people outside the spotlight.

Swissh:
I've been in many debates on the subject of religion with atheists, but I've never seen a debate on religion actually result in someone changing their mind. Being that religion is something that is very faith-based, it can cause a loop of what-ifs and what-if-nots. When a debate has no effect on perspective and can be so open ended that no point made is entirely rooted in fact, does the debate have a point? While there may be no shift in ideals or perspective, it can open ones mind to understand or at least respect the opposing viewpoint. As a Christian, I understand that there is little evidence I can give that proves my faith, and that what exists is very vague. I'm interested to hear another person's take on this as religious debates grow increasingly aggressive and that we live in a time where people are divided by their ideals.

you are a great man!

Swissh:


In Christianity, the Bible gives a solid definition of faith. Hebrews 13:8(KJV) says, "Now, faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
In scientific terms, evidence is the support of a hypothesis, and is expected to be empirical.
In Christianity, faith is empirical in the sense that, just like in science, it is supported by others having it too.
In science, people have faith in the sense that, believers in science over religion do not understand all science. They must take the word of others who have studied x subject.
Conclusion: To a degre believers in science have faith in scientists who know things they don't but, in Christianity, faith is literally the evidence.

i cannot see E-M waves so my faith is the evidence that it exists!
i hope to encounter unicorns tomorrow and my faith is what will make it be realised one day!

LordReed:


LoL! Using style to tell me to shut up so you can preach your god. Kole werk. If it pains you so much go tell your god to shut me up.

that is if he exists

Maximus69:


Atheism is just another religion on its own!

When we're talking about believers, most people assume it must be someone who worships somewhere but truthfully speaking that's a lie!

There are billions claiming believers who are atheistic on the inside and there are many claiming atheists who are believers from the heart.

It takes the power of discernment to grasp this!

Atheism began when Adam and Eve decided to liberate themselves from their Creator, they chose to become their own counselors and frankly demanded privacy from the one who owns everything! That was the beginning of Atheism, so it doesn't matter whether someone has seen, heard or experience God in action or not. An atheist just want to be absolutely free anyway!
Most atheists are pretenders, hiding in religious organizations and perpetrating all sort of evil, nobody can label them as atheist as long as they're claiming believers. It's their deeds that will prove they don't really think there's anything called God!

True believers may be found in any group no matter how degrading the ideology of such a group, Witches, Wizards, Cultists, Armed robbers, Hired killers, Ritualists and so on.
But how are we going to fish them out?
It's by inculcating in their minds the fine prospect God had in mind for humans! Most of them joined all these evil groups out of hopelessness but once they grab the Good News of a brighter future, they'll fall on their knees and start begging to know if they can still make it as part of the beneficiaries of Paradise despite all the atrocities they've committed in the past! Luke 23:42-43

Jesus referred to these ones as the lost sheep of the house of Israel, they just need to know the truth about God and his purpose for life. That's why Satan quickly initiated so many false religious groups to blur people's minds and discourage honesthearted individuals, who might be claiming atheists simply because of all the atrocities committed by the REAL atheists {religious misrepresentations} hypocritically claiming believers!

''True believers may be found in any group no matter how degrading the ideology of such a group, Witches, Wizards, Cultists, Armed robbers, Hired killers, Ritualists and so on.''

@enthronedbygod @joagbaje @donnie @shepherd01 i would like to know what you think about the quote above

MiddleDimension:
that is if he exists

Yep

These arguments are very important, they have liberated a lot of minds here on Nairaland. Many people read these arguments and make decision mainly based on the folly of religious people. It actually make people do more research and read more extensively on the history and evolution of religion. I am confidence that these religious argument turn more people to atheists more than anything else. Brother, keep up the good work!

LordReed:


Can you answer my question first?

And why must it be that way?

You want to prove that God doesn't exist and that's tantamount to saying there shouldn't be any prisoner of conscience as each person can choose to do whatever pleases him.

So going by your opinion, there's no God here now therefore none of us is in control, you may ask me a question and i may choose to respond with a question also, so far there is no one standing as the judge between us!

My question again Sir,

¤ Absolute freedom ~Think free and let nobody guide your thoughts, you can decide anything on your own because you're your own God!

¤Relative freedom ~Think but you need someone who knows best {Supreme Being/God} to guide you so that you don't get into trouble while chasing shadows!

So with due respect Sir, My honourable Professor LordReed. Which are you advocating now?

You're FREE to disappear as usual!

MiddleDimension:


''True believers may be found in any group no matter how degrading the ideology of such a group, Witches, Wizards, Cultists, Armed robbers, Hired killers, Ritualists and so on.''

@enthronedbygod @joagbaje @donnie @shepherd01 i would like to know what you think about the quote above

Hmmmmmmmmm!

@bolded

I know right thinking ones amongst you can't escape that bullet, because it's the tactics Satan is using to recruit you guys into becoming misinformed advocates of atheism!

But before anyone comment on that, let me first lay the precedence so that any follower may fully grasp the concept before misquoting me.

People run into groups due to feelings of inadequacy in the things keeping them cool, they are lonely in their thoughts and most times they want to belong somewhere as in to be accepted by others. But the Real atheists are the ones in control, telling the gullibles what to do and hypnotising them so that they remain under the real atheists {acting as Gods} as if looking onto them for guidance.
While the Real atheists may choose to do and undo, the gullibles are restricted to the rules set by the atheists.
We are the fishers sent out by a crowned master full of divine wisdom, he has equipped us with ever current information to use in snatching the gullibles out of the chackles of their Atheistic Gods. Matthew 4:19

We've been given the most powerful tool {Bible} to use in training them so that they also become efficacious fishers too to continue liberating as many as possible from the bondage of the real atheists {those who have taken the position of God}
For instance the picture below speaks volumes about the real atheists that most of you can't easily recognize, please watch as he is hypnotising the gullibles and making himself their God, he set the rules but he himself is above the law! Matthew 7:21-23

This atheist set the rules for the gullibles but during the wedding of his own son{which he claims to be ordained in heaven} the daughter in law proved that members of the house of this atheist are above all those man-made rules!

This is just one way of recruiting the gullibles and when honesthearted ones amongst them are fed up with all the deceits they'll simply erase the idea of the true God from their hearts. But what has led to this? It is the deeds of the real atheists! 2Timothy 3:5