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Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by bingbagbo(m): 1:17pm On Aug 14, 2019
Hebrews Chapter 1

1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, [/b]whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the [b]worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had [c]by Himself [d]purged [e]our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
[b]

5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:

“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again:


“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:

“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”
7
And of the angels He says:

“Who makes His angels spirits
And His ministers a flame of fire.

8 But to theSupreme Revelation
1 God, who [a]at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the [b]worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had [c]by Himself [d]purged [e]our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

The Son Exalted Above Angels
5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:

“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again:

“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:

“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”
7 And of the angels He says:

“Who makes His angels spirits
And His ministers a flame of fire.”


8 But to the Son He says:

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A [f]scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions[b].”

10 And:

“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.[/b]
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”
13 But to which of the angels has He ever said:

“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation? Son He says:

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A [f]scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
10 And:

“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.

11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”
13 But to which of the angels has He ever said:

“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?

Jesus Christ is God

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by Janosky: 2:18pm On Aug 14, 2019
@ Gbagbo,

Hebrew 1:6,
But when He again brings the firstborn
into the world, He says:
“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

@1)
Before, the Only true God YHWH gave the command of Hebrew 1:6, who 'worshipped' God's first born?
Answer: None! He is not the true God YHWH.

@2)
Hebrew 1:9, "Therefore God,your God anointed you"
Does YHWH have a God ?
Who can anoint the only true God YHWH?

@3)
Jesus Christ inherited the throne of David his human ancestor. Luke1:30-33.
The throne of David is the throne of God YHWH, 1Chro29:23.
Therefore, "Your divine throne is forever ". OR "God is your throne" are the best renditions of Hebrew 1:8 ,a copy of Psalms 45:6,7.
Based on scriptural references and evidences
"Your throne o God" is a FRAUD.

No Jew reads Psalms 45:6 and concludes that any king of Israel is God.

Because they knew & understood that all Kings of Israel sat on "the throne of God "
1 Chro29:23.

FINALLY, Jesus is not YHWH, his God and Father. Rev 3:2,5,
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by bingbagbo(m): 2:23pm On Aug 14, 2019
Janosky:
@ Gbagbo,

Hebrew 1:6,
But when He again brings the firstborn
into the world, He says:
“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

@1)
Before, the Only true God YHWH gave the command of Hebrew 1:6, who 'worshipped' God's first born?
Answer: None! He is not the true God YHWH.

@2)
Hebrew 1:9, "Therefore God,your God anointed you"
Does YHWH have a God ?
Who can anoint the only true God YHWH?

@3)
Jesus Christ inherited the throne of David his human ancestor. Luke1:30-33.
The throne of David is the throne of God YHWH, 1Chro29:23.
Therefore, "Your divine throne is forever ". OR "God is your throne" are the best renditions of Hebrew 1:8 ,a copy of Psalms 45:6,7.
Based on scriptural references and evidences
"Your throne o God" is a FRAUD.

No Jew reads Psalms 45:6 and concludes that any king of Israel is God.

Because they knew & understood that all Kings of Israel sat on "the throne of God "
1 Chro29:23.

FINALLY, Jesus is not YHWH, his God and Father. Rev 3:2,5,

grin

See frustrations, lol

I love how you dodged the verse 10

You see your shame?

God says Jesus Christ laid down the foundation of the earth and his right hand established the universe

Compare that to Isaiah 48:13 then u would know Jesus Christ is the physical manifestation of YHWH

I pity you

' Your throne oh God is forever and ever' is actually a quote from the book of Psalms 45 verse 6 and even that, the JW ridiculously corrupts it with God is your throne. Hahahaha, when did God become a throne? Your lies are disgusting

You worship Jehovah who is a throne , I worship Jesus Christ who is the creator

*spits*
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by Yusuf54(m): 4:21pm On Aug 14, 2019
Pls dont say this in Israel where Jesus was born,or else they gonna skin and bury you alive
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by Preciousgirl(f): 6:30pm On Aug 14, 2019
Yusuf54:
Pls dont say this in Israel where Jesus was born,or else they gonna skin and bury you alive

If even the Lord was crucified who am I to be skinned alive for speaking the truth?
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by Janosky: 7:05pm On Aug 14, 2019
*
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by Janosky: 7:07pm On Aug 14, 2019
bingbagbo:


grin

See frustrations, lol

I love how you dodged the verse 10

You see your shame?

God says Jesus Christ laid down the foundation of the earth and his right hand established the universe

Compare that to Isaiah 48:13 then u would know Jesus Christ is the physical manifestation of YHWH



' Your throne oh God is forever and ever' is actually a quote from the book of Psalms 45 verse 6 and even that, the JW ridiculously corrupts it with God is your throne. Hahahaha, when did God become a throne?

You worship Jehovah who is a throne , I worship Jesus Christ who is the creator

*spits*
Oturugbeke !!!!!!!!
Your lies smell pass carbide... naim dey make you spit like pregnant woman.....

Again you have to twist your last sentence to suit your fabricated crap.


$* If you get liver you won't run from these questions below

@1) 1Chro29:23, is the throne of David the throne of God?

@2) Luke1:30-33,did Jesus Christ inherit the throne of David ?

@3
Before, the Only true God YHWH gave
the command of Hebrew 1:6, who
'worshipped' God's first born?

@4)
Hebrew 1:9, "Therefore God,your God
anointed you"
Does YHWH have a God ?
Who can anoint the only true God
YHWH?

@5)
"God says Jesus Christ laid down the foundation of the earth and his right hand established the universe"

"Through him (Jesus) YHWH created the universe", your brain scrubbed memory done format Col 1:16, Heb 1:1-2 comot from your mind so soon?

@7). Gbagbo LIAR, if you bought a car THROUGH your son, who owns the car ?


**This idiotic Gbagbo have been lying on this thread that his son is Gbagbo himself.
That's the Trinity LIE he's been defending here.
Educated illiterate....
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by vybzkartel: 7:12pm On Aug 14, 2019
Janosky:

Oturugbeke !!!!!!!!
Your lies smell pass carbide... naim dey make you spit like pregnant woman.....

Again you have to twist your last sentence to suit your fabricated crap.


$* If you get liver you won't run from these questions below

@1) 1Chro29:23, is the throne of David the throne of God?

@2) Luke1:30-33,did Jesus Christ inherit the throne of David ?

@3
Before, the Only true God YHWH gave
the command of Hebrew 1:6, who
'worshipped' God's first born?

@4)
Hebrew 1:9, "Therefore God,your God
anointed you"
Does YHWH have a God ?
Who can anoint the only true God
YHWH?

@5)
"God says Jesus Christ laid down the foundation of the earth and his right hand established the universe"

"Through him (Jesus) YHWH created the universe", your brain scrubbed memory done format Col 1:16, Heb 1:1-2 comot from your mind so soon?

@7). Gbagbo LIAR, if you bought a car THROUGH your son, who owns the car ?


**This idiotic Gbagbo have been lying on this thread that his son is Gbagbo himself.
That's the Trinity LIE he's been defending here.
Educated illiterate....

You are a big fool to be attacking the truth
Cant you read?
You are a disgrace to fools
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by Janosky: 7:58pm On Aug 14, 2019
vybzkartel:

You are a big fool to be attacking the truth Cant you read? You are a disgrace to fools
Idiotic post. You're just being foolish. Answer the 7 questions there or get out of here.
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by Preciousgirl(f): 9:01pm On Aug 14, 2019
Janosky:


Idiotic post.
You're just being foolish.
Answer the 7 questions there or get out of here.

On the contrary u are the fool worshipping a nonexistent jehovah
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by bingbagbo(m): 2:27pm On Aug 15, 2019
Preciousgirl:


On the contrary u are the fool worshipping a nonexistent jehovah

Lol leave him alone, its his own Cup of Milo
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by Janosky: 8:38pm On Aug 20, 2019
Preciousgirl:


On the contrary u are the fool worshipping a nonexistent jehovah


Psalm 83:18 American Standard Version (ASV)
" That they may know that thou alone, whose name is Jehovah,
Art the Most High over all the earth"

Smally,your foolishness is precious to you.
Worshipper of triune ,3 face man made godhead.
The Holy scriptures super glue your blasphemous mouth.
Shame on you.
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by Janosky: 8:56pm On Aug 20, 2019
bingbagbo:




You worship Jehovah who is a throne , I worship Jesus Christ who is the creator

*spits*

Spit on your stupidity..... grin
In heaven your "creator Jesus" is the son of Jehovah, his God and my God. Rev3:2,5. John 20:17
Jehovah my God and Jesus Father owns the throne (Rev3:21
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by bingbagbo(m): 10:36pm On Aug 20, 2019
Janosky:


Spit on your stupidity..... grin
In heaven your "creator Jesus" is the son of Jehovah, his God and my God. Rev3:2,5. John 20:17
Jehovah my God and Jesus Father owns the throne (Rev3:21


You will die in your sins if you dont believe I AM HE

And remember, there is no time!
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by Janosky: 11:50am On Aug 21, 2019
bingbagbo:



You will die in your sins if you dont believe I AM HE

I REBUKE your rants IJNA .

** Gbagbo Pharisee LIAR twisting the holy Scriptures.

Revelation3:2,5
2 Wake up, ...for I have not found your
works complete in the sight of my God.


** 5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out the book of life. I will confess his name
before my Father and before his angels"

Jesus Christ in heaven says your iniquity is NOT ACCEPTABLE "in the sight my God"
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by bingbagbo(m): 12:20pm On Aug 21, 2019
Janosky:

I REBUKE your rants IJNA .

** Gbagbo Pharisee LIAR twisting the holy Scriptures.

Revelation3:2,5
2 Wake up, ...for I have not found your
works complete in the sight of my God.


** 5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out the book of life. I will confess his name
before my Father and before his angels"

Jesus Christ in heaven says your iniquity is NOT ACCEPTABLE "in the sight my God"


1 John 2:23


No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by Janosky: 7:27pm On Aug 22, 2019
bingbagbo:


Jesus Christ is the physical manifestation of YHWH


bingbagbo:


1 John 2:23


No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

**1 John2:23, Apostle John PROVED that Gbagbo lying Pharisee is a LIAR, FRAUD and Antichrist.


Apostle John calls Jesus in heaven "the Son" who "has the Father".
This is a vivid demarcation between YHWH the Father and Jesus the Son.

*1).
@John 17:3
"Now this is eternal life, that they may know
You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ,
whom You have sent."
Jesus says his Father, YHWH is " the only true God."

**2).
@ 1 John 4:15
"If anyone confesses that Jesus is the Son of
God, God abides in him, and he in God."
Confess NOW that Jesus is the Son of God, that's true Christianity.
Lying Gbagbo Pharisee Antichrist !!!!

*****3)
@ 1 John 5:1
"Everyone who believes that Jesus is the
Christ is born of God, and everyone who
loves the Father also loves the one born of
Him."
"Jesus is born of God" , meaning created by God. Psalms 90:2 CONFIRMED !!!!


Lying Gbagbo Pharisees AntiChrist shame on you and your Trinity junk.
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by bingbagbo(m): 9:27pm On Aug 22, 2019
Janosky:


**1 John2:23, Apostle John PROVED that Gbagbo lying Pharisee is a LIAR, FRAUD and Antichrist.


Apostle John calls Jesus in heaven "the Son" who "has the Father".
This is a vivid demarcation between YHWH the Father and Jesus the Son.

*1).
@John 17:3
"Now this is eternal life, that they may know
You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ,
whom You have sent."
Jesus says his Father, YHWH is " the only true God."

**2).
@ 1 John 4:15
"If anyone confesses that Jesus is the Son of
God, God abides in him, and he in God."
Confess NOW that Jesus is the Son of God, that's true Christianity.
Lying Gbagbo Pharisee Antichrist !!!!

*****3)
@ 1 John 5:1
"Everyone who believes that Jesus is the
Christ is born of God, and everyone who
loves the Father also loves the one born of
Him."
"Jesus is born of God" , meaning created by God. Psalms 90:2 CONFIRMED !!!!


Lying Gbagbo Pharisees AntiChrist shame on you and your Trinity junk.

You will die in your sins, if you don't believe I am he.
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by Janosky: 11:39pm On Aug 22, 2019
bingbagbo:


You will die in your sins, if you don't believe I am he.

Gbagbo in sifia pains......
Shameless Pharisees Gbagbo lying Antichrist., "CONFESS NOW,Jesus is the Son of God."

You can't DISPROVE 1 John5:1. 1John 4:15.

John17:3,
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by OnPointMan(m): 10:32am On Aug 23, 2019
bingbagbo:



You will die in your sins if you dont believe I AM HE

And remember, there is no time!

Guy, so you believe the Almighty was flogged and nailed to the cross by his creatures Reason am na! He make sense to you? Are you saying the Almighty is a failure?
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by Preciousgirl(f): 11:43am On Aug 23, 2019
Janosky:



Psalm 83:18 American Standard Version (ASV)
" That they may know that thou alone, whose name is Jehovah,
Art the Most High over all the earth"

Smally,your foolishness is precious to you.
Worshipper of triune ,3 face man made godhead.
The Holy scriptures super glue your blasphemous mouth.
Shame on you.

There is no jehovah in the Bible, fool


God revealed YHWH
The psalmist only gave a clue to its sound, which is YAH

Jehovah doesnt exist in the scriptures you devil possessed pathologjcal liar just like the devil your father. Fool!
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by Janosky: 3:38pm On Aug 23, 2019
*
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by Janosky: 3:40pm On Aug 23, 2019
Preciousgirl:


There is no jehovah in the Bible, fool


God revealed YHWH
The psalmist only gave a clue to its sound, which is YAH

Jehovah doesnt exist in the scriptures you devil possessed pathologjcal liar just like the devil your father. Fool!
Kai !!!!!!
Foolish rant of Smally hypocrite in sifia pains.

Go and delete Jehovah in Exodus 6:3 and Psalms 83:18 from all Bibles.
Then we can be sure you're not a
"devil possessed pathologjcal liar....."
Lols
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by Nobody: 4:23pm On Aug 23, 2019
bingbagbo:


You will die in your sins, if you don't believe I am he.

The two bolded are the problems you ought to solve before you can fully understand what Jesus meant by that statement @ John 8:24

¤First of all what is SIN?

This is the intentional or unintended blunders committed by humans, though humans won't realise it until it starts to manifest in the society bearing grave consequences! Therefore SIN can't be easily directed without the intervention of the Supreme intelligent being God! No wonder Jesus himself said "i do nothing out of my own initiative but just as the father taught me i speak" {John 8:28} because if he is not following divine guidance 24/7 it's surely possible for him as well to fall into a sinful act! Matthew 6:13
So if you're a SINNER, it takes a humble spirit and great calmness on your part to realize and admit it, otherwise you'll continue to argue insisting on what you first heard/taught even when all evidences are obvious indications that you've been misinformed! John 7:40-52

¤Jesus is the promised Messiah that God promised to send into the world, but there were lots and lots of misconceptions going on amongst the Jews regarding what manner of person this divinely ordained celestial being will prove to be when he finally arrive in their midst!
Moreover self ambitious Jewish zealots have come before Jesus claiming they're the Messiah {Act 5: 36-37 Compared to John 10:7-8} Jesus is the only person who had all the criteria to prove that he is the Messiah, if only these people are very observant of all the signs and activities surrounding him! Matthew 16: 13-17
So Jesus simply means he needed not to tell them that he is the Messiah if these people are truthfully examining the scriptures as forewarned in the Bible before his arrival! Psalm 1:1-3

The problem those claiming Christians today are having is exactly the same that the first century Jew who rejected Jesus had back then! Most people thought they understand what the Bible teaches but from all indications the Churches have been misleading all of them!
How?
If truthfully all those claiming Christians are believers in Christ, Jesus himself foretold what should be the result of his teachings amongst those who truly believe in him:
¤They will have love amongst themselves! John 13:34-35
¤They will be noticed by all people as having unique faith that's totally different from all other religions! Matthew 5:14-16
¤They will not carry weapons for any reason whatsoever! Matthew 10:16, 26:52 compared to Isaiah 2:3-4
¤They will be like one body spiritually speaking so that distance, racism or politics can't divide them! John 17:20-23
¤They will be known as PEACEFUL/EASYGOING evangelizers in all the nations they may be found! Matthew 10:3-15, 28:19-20
¤Then there will be no nation under the heavens that people in general won't mock, vilify or even dispises the true Christians as a Group! Matthew 10:22, John 17:14-16

So if the Church i'm associating with aren't having all of these as their logo, then i've been misinformed to think that i'm a Christian, when there is no evidence to back up my claim! Matthew 7:21-23 compared to Romans 10:2-3

God bless you! smiley
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by bingbagbo(m): 7:33pm On Aug 23, 2019
Maximus69:


The two bolded are the problems you ought to solve before you can fully understand what Jesus meant by that statement @ John 8:24

¤First of all what is SIN?

This is the intentional or unintended blunders committed by humans, though humans won't realise it until it starts to manifest in the society bearing grave consequences! Therefore SIN can't be easily directed without the intervention of the Supreme intelligent being God! No wonder Jesus himself said "i do nothing out of my own initiative but just as the father taught me i speak" {John 8:28} because if he is not following divine guidance 24/7 it's surely possible for him as well to fall into a sinful act! Matthew 6:13
So if you're a SINNER, it takes a humble spirit and great calmness on your part to realize and admit it, otherwise you'll continue to argue insisting on what you first heard/taught even when all evidences are obvious indications that you've been misinformed! John 7:40-52

¤Jesus is the promised Messiah that God promised to send into the world, but there were lots and lots of misconceptions going on amongst the Jews regarding what manner of person this divinely ordained celestial being will prove to be when he finally arrive in their midst!
Moreover self ambitious Jewish zealots have come before Jesus claiming they're the Messiah {Act 5: 36-37 Compared to John 10:7-8} Jesus is the only person who had all the criteria to prove that he is the Messiah, if only these people are very observant of all the signs and activities surrounding him! Matthew 16: 13-17
So Jesus simply means he needed not to tell them that he is the Messiah if these people are truthfully examining the scriptures as forewarned in the Bible before his arrival! Psalm 1:1-3

The problem those claiming Christians today are having is exactly the same that the first century Jew who rejected Jesus had back then! Most people thought they understand what the Bible teaches but from all indications the Churches have been misleading all of them!
How?
If truthfully all those claiming Christians are believers in Christ, Jesus himself foretold what should be the result of his teachings amongst those who truly believe in him:
¤They will have love amongst themselves! John 13:34-35
¤They will be noticed by all people as having unique faith that's totally different from all other religions! Matthew 5:14-16
¤They will not carry weapons for any reason whatsoever! Matthew 10:16, 26:52 compared to Isaiah 2:3-4
¤They will be like one body spiritually speaking so that distance, racism or politics can't divide them! John 17:20-23
¤They will be known as PEACEFUL/EASYGOING evangelizers in all the nations they may be found! Matthew 10:3-15, 28:19-20
¤Then there will be no nation under the heavens that people in general won't mock, vilify or even dispises the true Christians as a Group! Matthew 10:22, John 17:14-16

So if the Church i'm associating with aren't having all of these as their logo, then i've been misinformed to think that i'm a Christian, when there is no evidence to back up my claim! Matthew 7:21-23 compared to Romans 10:2-3

God bless you! smiley



You will die in your sins if you don't believe I AM HE
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by Nobody: 9:08pm On Aug 23, 2019
bingbagbo:



You will die in your sins if you don't believe i am he

That's exactly what's recorded in the Bible book of John 8:24.
Of course everyone can read and start applying it base on whatever their religion teaches them!

Quoting the Bible could be likened to a THEORIES needing enlightenment regarding the PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS so that everyone could see and start enjoying the BENEFITS

So if you're not able to expatiate on the practical applications and benefits, then it's obvious you don't understand what you're saying yourself. You're just like a toddler mimicking whatever he/she hears others say! undecided
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by bingbagbo(m): 8:46pm On Aug 26, 2019
Maximus69:


That's exactly what's recorded in the Bible book of John 8:24.
Of course everyone can read and start applying it base on whatever their religion teaches them!

Quoting the Bible could be likened to a THEORIES needing enlightenment regarding the PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS so that everyone could see and start enjoying the BENEFITS

So if you're not able to expatiate on the practical applications and benefits, then it's obvious you don't understand what you're saying yourself. You're just like a toddler mimicking whatever he/she hears others say! undecided
.John8:58 is one of a string of texts where John uses the Greek phrase ego eimi, the emphatic form of “I am,” or, “I myself am.” When we isolate John8:58 from the rest of John’s gospel, we greatly diminish the force of his argument, and in fact, give to our opponents their greatest weapon: they can always come up with some means around a single passage. In most instances, however, truth doesn’t come in single verses or passages alone. It is rather like an avalanche on a mountainside: theoretically, you can always dodge a single rock, but avalanches don’t send single rocks; they send thousands at a time, and you cannot dodge them all at once. In this instance, John did not simply give us one instance of ego eimi in a single isolated passage. A strained but slightly plausible explanation that avoids the truth in one text becomes more strained when you have to try to get around the truth in two texts, and then three texts, until what was once plausible becomes implausible and the truth is clear.
Jesus uses ego eimi in a number of ways in John. He uses it as simply self-identification in 4:26 and 6:20. It is used in such phrases as “I am the bread of life” (6:35) and “I am the light of the world” (8:12). In John chapters 8, 13, and 18, however, a series of uses appears that, when taken together (as surely they are meant to be seen by the author of the gospel), add yet another thread to the tapestry of witness John is giving to the person of Christ. Beginning in John8:24 we read, “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”6 This is part of the argumentation leading up to Jesus’ words in verse58, “Before Abraham was, I am.” However one understands Jesus’ identity, it is clear that unless one accepts Him for who He has revealed Himself to be, one will not have eternal life. When Jesus uses the same phrase in 8:58, immediately the Jews respond by picking up stones to stone Him.
In John13:19 Jesus says to His disciples, “‘From now on I am telling you before it comes to pass, so that when it does occur, you may believe that I am He.” How does providing a prophetic word prove who Jesus is? We will find an answer to this when we look to the Old Testament background of these passages, but let’s first look at another significant passage.
When Judas comes to betray the Lord in Gethsemane, we read, “They answered Him, ‘Jesus the Nazarene.’ He said to them, ‘I am He.’ And Judas also, who was betraying Him, was standing with them. So when He said to them, ‘I am He,’ they drew back and fell to the ground” (John18:5–6). This would be a very odd incident if, in fact, we did not connect it to what has gone before. Twice John notes that Jesus used the phrase ego eimi, emphasizing that when Jesus uttered this phrase, those seeking to arrest Him “drew back and fell to the ground.” Amazing efforts have been expended to avoid the plain meaning of this text, but to no avail. When Jesus speaks these words, something miraculous takes place.
Why would the Jews attempt to stone Jesus for saying, “Before Abraham was, I am”? Is the mere proclamation of preexistence sufficient grounds for stoning, or did the Jews see something more in Jesus’ claim? How would Jesus’ knowledge of the future help the disciples believe? What caused the officials and soldiers to fall to the ground when Jesus said ego eimi? Many believe that this alludes to the phrase “I am that I am” in God’s self-disclosure to Moses in Exodus3:14, which it surely does in part, but the strongest connection is in the books of the prophets, particularly Isaiah. In fact, we find the phrase ego eimi being used as a name of the one true God numerous times in Isaiah (e.g., 41:4;43:10,25;45:8,18,19,22;46:4,9;48:12,17) in the Septuagint (a Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures used in Jesus’ day) and, most significantly, in the very verse from which Jehovah’s Witnesses derive their name.
In the NWT this verse, Isaiah43:10, reads, “‘YOU are my witnesses,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that YOU may know and have faith in me, and that YOU may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none.’” Jesus uses the very same phrase of Himself in John13:19, which explains how His revelation of the future would aid the disciples to have true faith in Him; for only God can know the future. It likewise explains why the Jews reacted as they did when Jesus used this phrase in 8:58; for only God has always existed. It also explains why the soldiers who would have no knowledge of the Hebrew Scriptures would fall back on the ground when Christ identified Himself as the very I Am; for only God’s own presence could cause this involuntary reaction. In each instance those who heard Jesus recognized that He was God, or that He was claiming to be so.
When we review the entire record of John’s use of this phrase, the NWT’s inconsistency is strikingly evident, as is the utter futility of its attempt to hide this truth. The NWT does not mistranslate ego eimi in these other instances. In John8:24 the NWT has “I am [he].” In John13:19 and 18:5–6 the same translation appears. By attempting to hide this truth in just one instance, the translation testifies to its own inconsistency and its true purpose. When we approach the disputed text by first examining verses in which the NWT accurately renders the phrase so as to view the text in a wider context, we can avoid much of the argumentation and defense that Witnesses offer and can present the truth clearly to them.
JESUS “OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR”
Another excellent example of how one can actually use the errant or strained translations of the NWT to the advantage of the truth is found in the Bible’s description of Jesus as our “God and Savior” in Titus2:13 and 2Peter1:1. In both instances we have an example of a syntactical7 formula in the Greek language known as Granville Sharp’s Rule, and once again, as soon as grammar enters most conversations, those involved will be looking to move elsewhere very quickly. In addition, Witnesses who are better read can always find a translation here or a scholar there to provide support for the NWT rendering. As with the previous example, however, when we take a wider approach we not only can demonstrate the bias and error of the NWT, but we can give a memorable testimony to the truth as well.
Compare the NASB and the NWT on these passages:
Titus2:13: “…looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus” (NASB).
“…while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of [the] Savior of us, Christ Jesus” (NWT).
2 Peter1:1: “…by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ” (NASB).
“…by the righteousness of our God and [the] Savior Jesus Christ” (NWT).
The NWT clearly seeks to put as much distance as possible between the terms “God” and “Savior,” while the NASB equates the two, describing one person, Jesus Christ, as both “God and Savior.” The Watchtower Society, which denies the deity of Christ, obviously cannot describe Him as “God and Savior,” so a wide variety of arguments have been developed to substantiate their translation; again, however, context allows the believer to establish the truth without first obtaining a degree in Greek syntax.
The context of the passage in Titus2 indicates that only one person is in view: Christians are looking for the appearing, the coming, of Jesus Christ. The sentence continues into verse14 with only one person, Christ, in view. He “gave Himself” to “purify for Himself” a people. This language is reminiscent of the redemptive work of Jehovah with reference to Israel (e.g., Ps.130:7–8; Ezek.37:23; Exod.19:5), but here it is speaking of the work of Jesus Christ in particular. There is simply no reason to insert a gratuitous and unnatural reference to the Father into the middle of this passage unless your real reasons have nothing to do with the context or language but everything to do with your theology, as is the case with the NWT.
Being only part of the opening lines of an epistle (or “letter”), 2Peter1:1 does not have the kind of contextual support we find surrounding Titus2:13. The epistle of 2Peter as a whole, however, provides a powerful example of the inconsistency of the NWT and its blatant theological bias. Compare a transliteration of the Greek text of the last phrase in verse1 (“…our God and Savior, Jesus Christ”) with the text only 10 verses later:
tou theou hemon kai soteros Iesou Christou (v.1)
tou kuriou hemon kai soteros Iesou Christou (v.11)
These phrases are grammatically and syntactically identical, with only one variation: the Greek term theou (the genitive singular form of the word “God”) in verse1 over against the term kuriou (the genitive singular form of the word “Lord”) in verse11.
The NWT gives itself away by translating the phrase in verse11 correctly: “…our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” In fact, we likewise find identical grammatical constructions in 2Peter2:20 and3:18 that the NWT translates correctly. The only reason for the NWT’s rendering in 2Peter1:1 is clear: their theology demands it and precludes the correct rendering. By starting with 2Peter1:11, then examining 2:20 and 3:18, and moving back to 1:1, we can demonstrate the theological bias of the translation, hopefully laying the foundation for further discussion of the specifics of the passage.
CHRIST THE “CREATOR OF ALL THINGS”
To this point, we have demonstrated the translational errors and inconsistencies of the NWT by references to their surrounding contexts. Many of the questionable renderings presented by the NWT can be addressed in this way, including its famous translation, “the Word was a god” in John1:1. Some, however, require another level of knowledge concerning the context, requiring the apologist to be a student not only of the text of Scripture, but of the historical background as well. Specifically, when a translation turns an author’s argument on its head given the historical context in which he was writing, then it is presumably incorrect. An illustration of this can be found in the NWT’s most infamous attempt to hide a reference to the deity of Christ, in Colossians1:15–17:
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist.
When the NWT first appeared, the word other was inserted without brackets, implying that it was in the original Greek text. An outcry once again was raised and translators added the brackets. The Watchtower Society defends its insertion of other based first on its errant understanding of firstborn as meaning “first created.”8 Then, in light of that meaning, they insist that creation should be taken in such a fashion as to be the larger set of which the firstborn is a part.9 Therefore, the firstborn could only create all other things, since the firstborn is itself a part of creation.
The orthodox translation of this passage can be defended quite successfully based on syntactical arguments, but few are prepared to argue at this level. Is this text then rendered unusable to us in evangelism because of the Watchtower Society’s complex defense of its erroneous translation? It is not—if we approach it from the background of the error against which Paul is writing.
One of the earliest heresies the Christian faith faced was Gnosticism, which basically held the view that spirit is good, while matter (i.e., the physical world) is evil. This was fundamentally inconsistent with the Christian view that God created matter. One expression of this movement was known as Docetism (from the Greek, dokein: “to seem”), which taught that since Jesus was good, He did not have an evil, fleshly body, but only appeared to have a physical body. The apostle John specifically argued against this teaching and identified it as the teaching of “anti-Christ” (2John1:7). In the same fashion, Paul, knowing that an early form of Gnosticism that joined elements of Judaism and Christianity was moving into Asia Minor and specifically into Colossae, warned the Colossian believers against it using the very terminology the Gnostics themselves used. In Colossians1, Paul speaks of the “fullness” (Gk. pleroma), a term used by the Gnostics to describe the group of beings emanating from the one true God, known as “aeons.” It seems these early Gnostics, on encountering the proclamation of the risen Lord Jesus, tried to fit Him into their scheme, making Him one of the aeons, a divine being, but a derivative of deity—less than God Himself.
Paul denies this kind of teaching by asserting that Christ is not just one of the aeons, but is instead the preeminent being, the one through whom all created things were made, and in whom the fullness of deity dwells in bodily form (Col.2:9). No Gnostic could possibly accept such teaching. If, however, you render the text as does the NWT, you are forcing Paul to abandon his primary argument and agree with his opponents, the Gnostics! By making Jesus a created being, something less than the true God, the NWT does indeed turn Paul’s argument on its head. His point, in fact, is that Christ’s creative activity exhausts all of creation: there is nothing outside of His creative power. By seeking to conform the biblical text to its own theology, the Watchtower Society ends up making the apostle agree with his opponents, clearly indicating the error of their translation.
APPLICATION IN GENERAL
In-depth textual, grammatical, and syntactical discussions have their proper place in the realm of Christian scholarship and apologetics (even outside the domain of evangelizing Jehovah’s Witnesses). In most apologetic encounters, however, a more effective means is found in demonstrating translational and theological errors through the presentation of a sound, compelling, and understandable explanation of the context of a passage or author. Purposeful mistranslations, or highly questionable renderings, will distort the meaning of the author, and hence can be detected and exposed by those who grasp the overall teaching of the writer. Many Jehovah’s Witnesses have a concentrated knowledge of issues that separate them from historic Christianity, but they lack an overall, contextually sound biblical understanding. When faced with a testimony based on contextual understanding, many are deeply troubled, for they rarely encounter believers who seriously study the Scriptures so as to be able to witness so effectively.
You may view the NWT as an almost insuperable barrier, or you can instead recognize it as a tool that every Jehovah’s Witness will offer to you willingly for your use. Few Jehovah’s Witnesses will take Christian literature, but I have never seen one leave his or her NWT behind! When a faithful Christian accurately and confidently demonstrates the truth of Christ’s deity to them from the pages of their own Scriptures, that testimony will go with them and will have a lasting impact on their thinking. That is the kind of witness that the Holy Spirit can use to open blind eyes to the glory of the Word made flesh, the Creator of all things: our God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
notes
1. For a representation of the Watchtower defense, see Rolf Furuli, The Role of Theology in Bible Translation (Murrieta, CA: Elihu Books, 1999). Until the late 1990s the Watchtower discouraged apologetic defense of their work by individuals not under the direct control of its Governing Body, but it now realizes that with the advent of the Internet there is no way to keep the members of the Society insulated from the writings and information of “active opposers,” let alone control the activities of individual Witnesses who wish to defend the Society in the same forums.
2. For a representation of the evangelical response, see Robert H. Countess, The Jehovah’s Witnesses’ New Testament (Phillipsburg, NJ: Presbyterian and Reformed, 1982).
3. I consistently noted when the translation of the NWT materially influenced the interpretation of specific passages relevant to the doctrine of the Trinity in James White, The Forgotten Trinity (Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1998).
4. The NWT is not without positive aspects. When translating plural pronouns it employs this all-caps form to help the reader differentiate between plural (e.g., YOU) and singular (e.g., you) pronouns that are spelled the same in English, a useful mechanism.
5. While some Jehovah’s Witnesses will fight tooth and nail for the Germanicized pronunciation “Jehovah,” the vast majority of scholarship recognizes that “Yahweh” is the best pronunciation, and most Witnesses will actually be surprised at any use of the divine name, whether Yahweh or Jehovah, on the part of a non-Witness.
6. Most printed English translations use italics or brackets to indicate that a word was not in the original language text, but was inserted by the translators for clarification. In this instance, the pronoun He was not part of the original Greek phrase ego eimi.
7. Syntax refers to the relationship of words to one another. In the study of context, examining syntax is the next step up from examining the grammatical form of words in isolation.
8. The Greek term prototokos has a rich background in the Old Testament, used of Israel as Yahweh’s “firstborn” (obviously not “first-created”) in Exodus4:22 and Jeremiah31:9. The firstborn is the one having preeminence.
9. That is, as a partitive genitive, indicating that the firstborn is a part of the wider group creation.

.
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by Nobody: 12:58pm On Aug 27, 2019
bingbagbo:

.John8:58 is one of a string of texts where John uses the Greek phrase ego eimi, the emphatic form of “I am,” or, “I myself am.” When we isolate John8:58 from the rest of John’s gospel, we greatly diminish the force of his argument, and in fact, give to our opponents their greatest weapon: they can always come up with some means around a single passage. In most instances, however, truth doesn’t come in single verses or passages alone. It is rather like an avalanche on a mountainside: theoretically, you can always dodge a single rock, but avalanches don’t send single rocks; they send thousands at a time, and you cannot dodge them all at once. In this instance, John did not simply give us one instance of ego eimi in a single isolated passage. A strained but slightly plausible explanation that avoids the truth in one text becomes more strained when you have to try to get around the truth in two texts, and then three texts, until what was once plausible becomes implausible and the truth is clear.
Jesus uses ego eimi in a number of ways in John. He uses it as simply self-identification in 4:26 and 6:20. It is used in such phrases as “I am the bread of life” (6:35) and “I am the light of the world” (8:12). In John chapters 8, 13, and 18, however, a series of uses appears that, when taken together (as surely they are meant to be seen by the author of the gospel), add yet another thread to the tapestry of witness John is giving to the person of Christ. Beginning in John8:24 we read, “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”6 This is part of the argumentation leading up to Jesus’ words in verse58, “Before Abraham was, I am.” However one understands Jesus’ identity, it is clear that unless one accepts Him for who He has revealed Himself to be, one will not have eternal life. When Jesus uses the same phrase in 8:58, immediately the Jews respond by picking up stones to stone Him.
In John13:19 Jesus says to His disciples, “‘From now on I am telling you before it comes to pass, so that when it does occur, you may believe that I am He.” How does providing a prophetic word prove who Jesus is? We will find an answer to this when we look to the Old Testament background of these passages, but let’s first look at another significant passage.
When Judas comes to betray the Lord in Gethsemane, we read, “They answered Him, ‘Jesus the Nazarene.’ He said to them, ‘I am He.’ And Judas also, who was betraying Him, was standing with them. So when He said to them, ‘I am He,’ they drew back and fell to the ground” (John18:5–6). This would be a very odd incident if, in fact, we did not connect it to what has gone before. Twice John notes that Jesus used the phrase ego eimi, emphasizing that when Jesus uttered this phrase, those seeking to arrest Him “drew back and fell to the ground.” Amazing efforts have been expended to avoid the plain meaning of this text, but to no avail. When Jesus speaks these words, something miraculous takes place.
Why would the Jews attempt to stone Jesus for saying, “Before Abraham was, I am”? Is the mere proclamation of preexistence sufficient grounds for stoning, or did the Jews see something more in Jesus’ claim? How would Jesus’ knowledge of the future help the disciples believe? What caused the officials and soldiers to fall to the ground when Jesus said ego eimi? Many believe that this alludes to the phrase “I am that I am” in God’s self-disclosure to Moses in Exodus3:14, which it surely does in part, but the strongest connection is in the books of the prophets, particularly Isaiah. In fact, we find the phrase ego eimi being used as a name of the one true God numerous times in Isaiah (e.g., 41:4;43:10,25;45:8,18,19,22;46:4,9;48:12,17) in the Septuagint (a Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures used in Jesus’ day) and, most significantly, in the very verse from which Jehovah’s Witnesses derive their name.
In the NWT this verse, Isaiah43:10, reads, “‘YOU are my witnesses,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that YOU may know and have faith in me, and that YOU may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none.’” Jesus uses the very same phrase of Himself in John13:19, which explains how His revelation of the future would aid the disciples to have true faith in Him; for only God can know the future. It likewise explains why the Jews reacted as they did when Jesus used this phrase in 8:58; for only God has always existed. It also explains why the soldiers who would have no knowledge of the Hebrew Scriptures would fall back on the ground when Christ identified Himself as the very I Am; for only God’s own presence could cause this involuntary reaction. In each instance those who heard Jesus recognized that He was God, or that He was claiming to be so.
When we review the entire record of John’s use of this phrase, the NWT’s inconsistency is strikingly evident, as is the utter futility of its attempt to hide this truth. The NWT does not mistranslate ego eimi in these other instances. In John8:24 the NWT has “I am [he].” In John13:19 and 18:5–6 the same translation appears. By attempting to hide this truth in just one instance, the translation testifies to its own inconsistency and its true purpose. When we approach the disputed text by first examining verses in which the NWT accurately renders the phrase so as to view the text in a wider context, we can avoid much of the argumentation and defense that Witnesses offer and can present the truth clearly to them.
JESUS “OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR”
Another excellent example of how one can actually use the errant or strained translations of the NWT to the advantage of the truth is found in the Bible’s description of Jesus as our “God and Savior” in Titus2:13 and 2Peter1:1. In both instances we have an example of a syntactical7 formula in the Greek language known as Granville Sharp’s Rule, and once again, as soon as grammar enters most conversations, those involved will be looking to move elsewhere very quickly. In addition, Witnesses who are better read can always find a translation here or a scholar there to provide support for the NWT rendering. As with the previous example, however, when we take a wider approach we not only can demonstrate the bias and error of the NWT, but we can give a memorable testimony to the truth as well.
Compare the NASB and the NWT on these passages:
Titus2:13: “…looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus” (NASB).
“…while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of [the] Savior of us, Christ Jesus” (NWT).
2 Peter1:1: “…by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ” (NASB).
“…by the righteousness of our God and [the] Savior Jesus Christ” (NWT).
The NWT clearly seeks to put as much distance as possible between the terms “God” and “Savior,” while the NASB equates the two, describing one person, Jesus Christ, as both “God and Savior.” The Watchtower Society, which denies the deity of Christ, obviously cannot describe Him as “God and Savior,” so a wide variety of arguments have been developed to substantiate their translation; again, however, context allows the believer to establish the truth without first obtaining a degree in Greek syntax.
The context of the passage in Titus2 indicates that only one person is in view: Christians are looking for the appearing, the coming, of Jesus Christ. The sentence continues into verse14 with only one person, Christ, in view. He “gave Himself” to “purify for Himself” a people. This language is reminiscent of the redemptive work of Jehovah with reference to Israel (e.g., Ps.130:7–8; Ezek.37:23; Exod.19:5), but here it is speaking of the work of Jesus Christ in particular. There is simply no reason to insert a gratuitous and unnatural reference to the Father into the middle of this passage unless your real reasons have nothing to do with the context or language but everything to do with your theology, as is the case with the NWT.
Being only part of the opening lines of an epistle (or “letter”), 2Peter1:1 does not have the kind of contextual support we find surrounding Titus2:13. The epistle of 2Peter as a whole, however, provides a powerful example of the inconsistency of the NWT and its blatant theological bias. Compare a transliteration of the Greek text of the last phrase in verse1 (“…our God and Savior, Jesus Christ”) with the text only 10 verses later:
tou theou hemon kai soteros Iesou Christou (v.1)
tou kuriou hemon kai soteros Iesou Christou (v.11)
These phrases are grammatically and syntactically identical, with only one variation: the Greek term theou (the genitive singular form of the word “God”) in verse1 over against the term kuriou (the genitive singular form of the word “Lord”) in verse11.
The NWT gives itself away by translating the phrase in verse11 correctly: “…our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” In fact, we likewise find identical grammatical constructions in 2Peter2:20 and3:18 that the NWT translates correctly. The only reason for the NWT’s rendering in 2Peter1:1 is clear: their theology demands it and precludes the correct rendering. By starting with 2Peter1:11, then examining 2:20 and 3:18, and moving back to 1:1, we can demonstrate the theological bias of the translation, hopefully laying the foundation for further discussion of the specifics of the passage.
CHRIST THE “CREATOR OF ALL THINGS”
To this point, we have demonstrated the translational errors and inconsistencies of the NWT by references to their surrounding contexts. Many of the questionable renderings presented by the NWT can be addressed in this way, including its famous translation, “the Word was a god” in John1:1. Some, however, require another level of knowledge concerning the context, requiring the apologist to be a student not only of the text of Scripture, but of the historical background as well. Specifically, when a translation turns an author’s argument on its head given the historical context in which he was writing, then it is presumably incorrect. An illustration of this can be found in the NWT’s most infamous attempt to hide a reference to the deity of Christ, in Colossians1:15–17:
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist.
When the NWT first appeared, the word other was inserted without brackets, implying that it was in the original Greek text. An outcry once again was raised and translators added the brackets. The Watchtower Society defends its insertion of other based first on its errant understanding of firstborn as meaning “first created.”8 Then, in light of that meaning, they insist that creation should be taken in such a fashion as to be the larger set of which the firstborn is a part.9 Therefore, the firstborn could only create all other things, since the firstborn is itself a part of creation.
The orthodox translation of this passage can be defended quite successfully based on syntactical arguments, but few are prepared to argue at this level. Is this text then rendered unusable to us in evangelism because of the Watchtower Society’s complex defense of its erroneous translation? It is not—if we approach it from the background of the error against which Paul is writing.
One of the earliest heresies the Christian faith faced was Gnosticism, which basically held the view that spirit is good, while matter (i.e., the physical world) is evil. This was fundamentally inconsistent with the Christian view that God created matter. One expression of this movement was known as Docetism (from the Greek, dokein: “to seem”), which taught that since Jesus was good, He did not have an evil, fleshly body, but only appeared to have a physical body. The apostle John specifically argued against this teaching and identified it as the teaching of “anti-Christ” (2John1:7). In the same fashion, Paul, knowing that an early form of Gnosticism that joined elements of Judaism and Christianity was moving into Asia Minor and specifically into Colossae, warned the Colossian believers against it using the very terminology the Gnostics themselves used. In Colossians1, Paul speaks of the “fullness” (Gk. pleroma), a term used by the Gnostics to describe the group of beings emanating from the one true God, known as “aeons.” It seems these early Gnostics, on encountering the proclamation of the risen Lord Jesus, tried to fit Him into their scheme, making Him one of the aeons, a divine being, but a derivative of deity—less than God Himself.
Paul denies this kind of teaching by asserting that Christ is not just one of the aeons, but is instead the preeminent being, the one through whom all created things were made, and in whom the fullness of deity dwells in bodily form (Col.2:9). No Gnostic could possibly accept such teaching. If, however, you render the text as does the NWT, you are forcing Paul to abandon his primary argument and agree with his opponents, the Gnostics! By making Jesus a created being, something less than the true God, the NWT does indeed turn Paul’s argument on its head. His point, in fact, is that Christ’s creative activity exhausts all of creation: there is nothing outside of His creative power. By seeking to conform the biblical text to its own theology, the Watchtower Society ends up making the apostle agree with his opponents, clearly indicating the error of their translation.
APPLICATION IN GENERAL
In-depth textual, grammatical, and syntactical discussions have their proper place in the realm of Christian scholarship and apologetics (even outside the domain of evangelizing Jehovah’s Witnesses). In most apologetic encounters, however, a more effective means is found in demonstrating translational and theological errors through the presentation of a sound, compelling, and understandable explanation of the context of a passage or author. Purposeful mistranslations, or highly questionable renderings, will distort the meaning of the author, and hence can be detected and exposed by those who grasp the overall teaching of the writer. Many Jehovah’s Witnesses have a concentrated knowledge of issues that separate them from historic Christianity, but they lack an overall, contextually sound biblical understanding. When faced with a testimony based on contextual understanding, many are deeply troubled, for they rarely encounter believers who seriously study the Scriptures so as to be able to witness so effectively.
You may view the NWT as an almost insuperable barrier, or you can instead recognize it as a tool that every Jehovah’s Witness will offer to you willingly for your use. Few Jehovah’s Witnesses will take Christian literature, but I have never seen one leave his or her NWT behind! When a faithful Christian accurately and confidently demonstrates the truth of Christ’s deity to them from the pages of their own Scriptures, that testimony will go with them and will have a lasting impact on their thinking. That is the kind of witness that the Holy Spirit can use to open blind eyes to the glory of the Word made flesh, the Creator of all things: our God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
notes
1. For a representation of the Watchtower defense, see Rolf Furuli, The Role of Theology in Bible Translation (Murrieta, CA: Elihu Books, 1999). Until the late 1990s the Watchtower discouraged apologetic defense of their work by individuals not under the direct control of its Governing Body, but it now realizes that with the advent of the Internet there is no way to keep the members of the Society insulated from the writings and information of “active opposers,” let alone control the activities of individual Witnesses who wish to defend the Society in the same forums.
2. For a representation of the evangelical response, see Robert H. Countess, The Jehovah’s Witnesses’ New Testament (Phillipsburg, NJ: Presbyterian and Reformed, 1982).
3. I consistently noted when the translation of the NWT materially influenced the interpretation of specific passages relevant to the doctrine of the Trinity in James White, The Forgotten Trinity (Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1998).
4. The NWT is not without positive aspects. When translating plural pronouns it employs this all-caps form to help the reader differentiate between plural (e.g., YOU) and singular (e.g., you) pronouns that are spelled the same in English, a useful mechanism.
5. While some Jehovah’s Witnesses will fight tooth and nail for the Germanicized pronunciation “Jehovah,” the vast majority of scholarship recognizes that “Yahweh” is the best pronunciation, and most Witnesses will actually be surprised at any use of the divine name, whether Yahweh or Jehovah, on the part of a non-Witness.
6. Most printed English translations use italics or brackets to indicate that a word was not in the original language text, but was inserted by the translators for clarification. In this instance, the pronoun He was not part of the original Greek phrase ego eimi.
7. Syntax refers to the relationship of words to one another. In the study of context, examining syntax is the next step up from examining the grammatical form of words in isolation.
8. The Greek term prototokos has a rich background in the Old Testament, used of Israel as Yahweh’s “firstborn” (obviously not “first-created”) in Exodus4:22 and Jeremiah31:9. The firstborn is the one having preeminence.
9. That is, as a partitive genitive, indicating that the firstborn is a part of the wider group creation.

.

You've gotten an epistle there Sir, but i will like to get your point!

Are you saying that Jesus should be revered as the Almighty God and everyone should forget about other important things like "who are those bearing the fruit of God's holy spirit?"

Because Jesus himself never called himself the Almighty God and never has any of his disciples called him the Almighty God. All that is expected of them from Jesus himself was for them to bear fruits of God's holy spirit which will become obvious to all other religionists! Matthew 5:14-16,7:15-20
For instance
©Christians are to have love amongst themselves! John 13:34-35
©Form a happy global family of peace loving worshippers! John 17:20-23
©Known globally as zealous evangelizers everywhere they are! Matthew 10:3-13,28:19-20
©Every nation under the heavens will continue to vilify their group! Matthew 10:22, John 17:14-16
©They're not to be found using weapons to settle any dispute whatsoever! Matthew 26:52

All these and many more are what will prove that the group are Jesus' Witnesses, as they are stringent with the teachings of their Master Lord and King Jesus Christ, not just lip services of saying our oga is this our oga is that when there is nothing to write home about them!
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by Janosky: 5:23pm On Aug 27, 2019
*@ 2Peter 1:1,2 Greetings from Peter 1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.…
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by Janosky: 6:02pm On Aug 27, 2019
[/color][color=] *@ 2Peter 1:1,2
Greetings from Peter
1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of
Jesus Christ, To those who through the
righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus
Christ have received a faith as precious as
ours: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you
through the knowledge of God and of Jesus
our Lord.…

NOTE: 2Peter2:2 "the KNOWLEDGE OF GOD AND OF JESUS OUR LORD"
PROOF, that God ,YHWH the Father is NOT Jesus Christ. verse 2 shows they are separate Persons.


@ FURTHER PROOFS:

@1).
American King James Version
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of
Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like
precious faith with us through the
righteousness of God and our Savior Jesus
Christ:

. @2).
American Standard Version
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus
Christ, to them that have obtained a like
precious faith with us in the righteousness
of our God and the 'saviour Jesus Christ:



@3).
Weymouth New Testament
Simon Peter, a bondservant and Apostle of
Jesus Christ: To those to whom there has
been allotted the same precious faith as that
which is ours through the righteousness of
our God and of our Saviour Jesus Christ."

Various Trinitarian Bibles (@1 to @3) render 2Peter1:1 to show that YHWH and Jesus are separate beings, in agreement with 2Pet2:2.



Also Titus 2:14, (everyone go check it out) is further PROOF that YHWH & Jesus are DIFFERENT BEINGS.(compare 1st John 4:14).

@ Exodus 3:14,YHWH ( means " I will be what/who I will be"wink is the God of Abraham.
Acts 3:13, Jesus serves the God of Abraham on earth and in heaven, Rev 3:12.
Gbagbo lying Pharisee twisting the Scriptures to hoodwink gullible individuals led astray by Pastorpreneurs.

Believe him at your own peril.
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by bingbagbo(m): 7:53pm On Aug 27, 2019
Janosky:
[/color][color=] *@ 2Peter 1:1,2
Greetings from Peter
1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of
Jesus Christ, To those who through the
righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus
Christ have received a faith as precious as
ours: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you
through the knowledge of God and of Jesus
our Lord.…

NOTE: 2Peter2:2 "the KNOWLEDGE OF GOD AND OF JESUS OUR LORD"
PROOF, that God ,YHWH the Father is NOT Jesus Christ. verse 2 shows they are separate Persons.

Jesus Christ Is God, this truth so hurts you bad,




@ FURTHER PROOFS:

@1).
American King James Version
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of
Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like
precious faith with us through the
righteousness of God and our Savior Jesus
Christ:

. @2).
American Standard Version
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus
Christ, to them that have obtained a like
precious faith with us in the righteousness
of our God and the 'saviour Jesus Christ:



@3).
Weymouth New Testament
Simon Peter, a bondservant and Apostle of
Jesus Christ: To those to whom there has
been allotted the same precious faith as that
which is ours through the righteousness of
our God and of our Saviour Jesus Christ."

Various Trinitarian Bibles (@1 to @3) render 2Peter1:1 to show that YHWH and Jesus are separate beings, in agreement with 2Pet2:2.



Also Titus 2:14, (everyone go check it out) is further PROOF that YHWH & Jesus are DIFFERENT BEINGS.(compare 1st John 4:14).

@ Exodus 3:14,YHWH ( means " I will be what/who I will be"wink is the God of Abraham.
Acts 3:13, Jesus serves the God of Abraham on earth and in heaven, Rev 3:12.
Gbagbo lying Pharisee twisting the Scriptures to hoodwink gullible individuals led astray by Pastorpreneurs.

Believe him at your own peril.

Jesus Christ is God Almighty, this truth so hurts you

But I don't care, at the mention of the name Jesus, every knee including that of your god Satan (Jehovah)

Jesus Christ is YHWH
Re: Jesus Christ Is The Creator Of All Things Including You! by Janosky: 12:57am On Aug 28, 2019
bingbagbo:


Jesus Christ is God Almighty, this truth so hurts you

But I don't care, at the mention of the name Jesus, every knee including that of your god Satan (Jehovah)

Jesus Christ is YHWH
You no fit twist Revelation 3:12 ?
Gbagbo lying Pharisees consoling himself....
Lols

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