Oricha62:

My evidences are in the Quran which you disbelieve its message.

Leave Taiwo alone. He's not worth answering. He is a born Muslim turned Atheist.

AbuTwins:
Na'am bro, i had to use a lesser figure cos i know they can start an argument with that. We have roughly 2 Billion muslims worldwide out of which i believe 50% would recite Fatiha daily.

Muslims and fake statistics are like bread and butter. Where do you get the '2billion' muslims figure? Is it inclusive of the Muslims from the time of mohammed till date? Anyway, I am not shocked. A religion that categorized their religious text, the hadith, into weak, strong and fabricated (and the fabricated, the weak and the stong still found in the same volume or spiral bind) can and should never be taken seriously by rational people.

AbuTwins:
Christianity has been rebranded and it keeps getting rebranded. They have no constitution. And the holy spirit they claim keeps separating them. The Bible as it is today has immense issues both with its isnad and matn.
You will see them arguing over a simple thing as "is Alcohol permissible in Christianity" and similar issues.

It is shocking when muslims accused others of disunity when they cant even agree on what is written in their own books. 10 different scholars with ten different interpretation of Islamic religious text. 5 different tafsir with 5 different interpretations. The tafsir of Ibn kathir and the tafsir of Jelalyn diametricxally disagreed on quran 66:1. If you own tafsir can disagreed and your hadith also disagreed on the event that led to quran 66:1, how do you want anyone to take Islam serious?

AgentNairaland:


I WILL BE SHOWING YOU VERSES IN QURAN THAT TALKS ABOUT KAABA AS UR SHRINE IN ISLAM

1. [Quran 5:1-2] O you who believe, you shall fulfill
your covenants. Permitted for you to eat
are the livestock, except those specifically
prohibited herein. You shall not permit
hunting throughout Hajj pilgrimage. GOD
decrees whatever He wills. O you who
believe, do not violate the rites instituted
by GOD, nor the Sacred Months, nor the
animals to be offered, nor the garlands
marking them, nor the people who head
for the Sacred Shrine (Ka`bah) seeking
blessings from their Lord and approval.
Once you complete the pilgrimage, you
may hunt.* Do not be provoked into
aggression by your hatred of people who
once prevented you from going to the
Sacred Masjid. You shall cooperate in
matters of righteousness and piety; do not
cooperate in matters that are sinful and
evil. You shall observe GOD. GOD is strict
in enforcing retribution.

The Verses above even referred kaaba AS SACRED SHRINE... Where did u get ur own BAY ..

I think you need to tell us which translation of the Qur'an you are using to justify your nonsense ideology.

Here are three translations of the same verse: Bayt al Haram is the Sacred House of Makkah

MUHSIN KHAN
O you who believe! Violate not the sanctity of the Symbols of Allah, nor of the Sacred Month, nor of the animals brought for sacrifice, nor the garlanded people or animals, etc. [Marked by the garlands on their necks made from the outer part of the tree-stems (of Makkah) for their security], nor the people coming to the Sacred House (Makkah), seeking the bounty and good pleasure of their Lord. But when you finish the Ihram (of Hajj or 'Umrah), you may hunt, and let not the hatred of some people in (once) stopping you from Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makkah) lead you to transgression (and hostility on your part). Help you one another in Al-Birr and At-Taqwa (virtue, righteousness and piety); but do not help one another in sin and transgression. And fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Severe in punishment.

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
O you who have believed, do not violate the rites of Allah or [the sanctity of] the sacred month or [neglect the marking of] the sacrificial animals and garlanding [them] or [violate the safety of] those coming to the Sacred House seeking bounty from their Lord and [His] approval. But when you come out of ihram, then [you may] hunt. And do not let the hatred of a people for having obstructed you from al-Masjid al-Haram lead you to transgress. And cooperate in righteousness and piety, but do not cooperate in sin and aggression. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.

PICKTHALL
O ye who believe! Profane not Allah's monuments nor the Sacred Month nor the offerings nor the garlands, nor those repairing to the Sacred House, seeking the grace and pleasure of their Lord. But when ye have left the sacred territory, then go hunting (if ye will). And let not your hatred of a folk who (once) stopped your going to the inviolable place of worship seduce you to transgress; but help ye one another unto righteousness and pious duty. Help not one another unto sin and transgression, but keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is severe in punishment.

AgentNairaland:
See Another Verse That Refer Kaaba As SHRINE

[Quran 22:26-27] We appointed Abraham to
establish the Shrine: "You shall not
idolize any other god beside Me, and
purify My shrine for those who visit it,
those who live near it, and those who
bow and prostrate. "And proclaim that
the people shall observe Hajj pilgrimage.*
They will come to you walking or riding
on various exhausted (means of
transportation). They will come from the
farthest locations."

Allah Asked Abraham To Establish The Shrine Called Kaaba

Apparently the site you copied this from are as ignorant and erroneous as you.
Once again Bayt in Arabic means House. And the house here is Ka'bah in Makkah.

MUHSIN KHAN
And (remember) when We showed Ibrahim (Abraham) the site of the (Sacred) House (the Ka'bah at Makkah) (saying): "Associate not anything (in worship) with Me, [La ilaha ill-Allah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah Islamic Monotheism], and sanctify My House for those who circumambulate it, and those who stand up for prayer, and those who bow (submit themselves with humility and obedience to Allah), and make prostration (in prayer, etc.);"

PICKTHALL
And (remember) when We prepared for Abraham the place of the (holy) House, saying: Ascribe thou no thing as partner unto Me, and purify My House for those who make the round (thereof) and those who stand and those who bow and make prostration.

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
And [mention, O Muhammad], when We designated for Abraham the site of the House, [saying], "Do not associate anything with Me and purify My House for those who perform Tawaf and those who stand [in prayer] and those who bow and prostrate.

AgentNairaland:
2. Is Muhammad Your Messiah, If Yes Who Anointed
Him As MESSIAH?

3. WHAT IS THE NAME OF THAT ORIGINAL SCRIPTURE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT?

4. JESUS READ THE SCRIPTURE IN SYNAGOGUE

Luke 4:17-21 And there was delivered unto him the book of the
Prophet Isaiah. And when he had opened the book,
he found the place where it was written,
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath
anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath
sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach
deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to
the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
And he closed the book, and he gave it again to
the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them
that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
And he began to say unto them, This day is this
scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Please Answer The Questions I Asked You Above.. Thanks

What does Messiah mean?

Dictionary says:

noun
1.
the promised deliverer of the Jewish nation prophesied in the Hebrew Bible.
2.
a leader regarded as the savior of a particular country, group, or cause.

So if Jesus is the Messiah then did he come only to deliver the Jewish nation as in 1 above or as a saviur of the lost sheep of Israel as in 2 above?

Muhammad as well as Jesus are Prophet and Messenger as the Qur'an says Allah appointed them as Messengers.
The Scripture given to Jesus was Injeel.

Your Bible claim Jesus read the Torah in the Synagogue.

AbuTwins:


I think you need to tell us which translation of the Qur'an you are using to justify your nonsense ideology.

Here are three translations of the same verse: Bayt al Haram is the Sacred House of Makkah

MUHSIN KHAN
O you who believe! Violate not the sanctity of the Symbols of Allah, nor of the Sacred Month, nor of the animals brought for sacrifice, nor the garlanded people or animals, etc. [Marked by the garlands on their necks made from the outer part of the tree-stems (of Makkah) for their security], nor the people coming to the Sacred House (Makkah), seeking the bounty and good pleasure of their Lord. But when you finish the Ihram (of Hajj or 'Umrah), you may hunt, and let not the hatred of some people in (once) stopping you from Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makkah) lead you to transgression (and hostility on your part). Help you one another in Al-Birr and At-Taqwa (virtue, righteousness and piety); but do not help one another in sin and transgression. And fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Severe in punishment.

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
O you who have believed, do not violate the rites of Allah or [the sanctity of] the sacred month or [neglect the marking of] the sacrificial animals and garlanding [them] or [violate the safety of] those coming to the Sacred House seeking bounty from their Lord and [His] approval. But when you come out of ihram, then [you may] hunt. And do not let the hatred of a people for having obstructed you from al-Masjid al-Haram lead you to transgress. And cooperate in righteousness and piety, but do not cooperate in sin and aggression. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.

PICKTHALL
O ye who believe! Profane not Allah's monuments nor the Sacred Month nor the offerings nor the garlands, nor those repairing to the Sacred House, seeking the grace and pleasure of their Lord. But when ye have left the sacred territory, then go hunting (if ye will). And let not your hatred of a folk who (once) stopped your going to the inviolable place of worship seduce you to transgress; but help ye one another unto righteousness and pious duty. Help not one another unto sin and transgression, but keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is severe in punishment.





Apparently the site you copied this from are as ignorant and erroneous as you.
Once again Bayt in Arabic means House. And the house here is Ka'bah in Makkah.

MUHSIN KHAN
And (remember) when We showed Ibrahim (Abraham) the site of the (Sacred) House (the Ka'bah at Makkah) (saying): "Associate not anything (in worship) with Me, [La ilaha ill-Allah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah Islamic Monotheism], and sanctify My House for those who circumambulate it, and those who stand up for prayer, and those who bow (submit themselves with humility and obedience to Allah), and make prostration (in prayer, etc.);"

PICKTHALL
And (remember) when We prepared for Abraham the place of the (holy) House, saying: Ascribe thou no thing as partner unto Me, and purify My House for those who make the round (thereof) and those who stand and those who bow and make prostration.

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
And [mention, O Muhammad], when We designated for Abraham the site of the House, [saying], "Do not associate anything with Me and purify My House for those who perform Tawaf and those who stand [in prayer] and those who bow and prostrate.



What does Messiah mean?

Dictionary says:

noun
1.
the promised deliverer of the Jewish nation prophesied in the Hebrew Bible.
2.
a leader regarded as the savior of a particular country, group, or cause.

So if Jesus is the Messiah then did he come only to deliver the Jewish nation as in 1 above or as a saviur of the lost sheep of Israel as in 2 above?

Muhammad as well as Jesus are Prophet and Messenger as the Qur'an says Allah appointed them as Messengers.
The Scripture given to Jesus was Injeel.

Your Bible claim Jesus read the Torah in the Synagogue.

You seem to deliberately avoided this point:

It is shocking when muslims accused others of disunity when they cant even agree on what is written in their own books. 10 different scholars with ten different interpretation of Islamic religious text. 5 different tafsir with 5 different interpretations. The tafsir of Ibn kathir and the tafsir of Jelalyn diametricxally disagreed on quran 66:1. If you own tafsir can disagreed and your hadith also disagreed on the event that led to quran 66:1, how do you want anyone to take Islam serious?

true2god:
Muslims and fake statistics are like bread and butter. Where do you get the '2billion' muslims figure? Is it inclusive of the Muslims from the time of mohammed till date? Anyway, I am not shocked. A religion that categorized their religious text, the hadith, into weak, strong and fabricated (and the fabricated, the weak and the stong still found in the same volume or spiral bind) can and should never be taken seriously by rational people.

Alhamdulillah, show us the statistics of Muslims worldwide. It is 1.8 Billion. And we said roughly 2 Billion. Prove us wrong.
On our classifiction, Alhamdulillah we are sincere. we classify our Hadiths based on how authentic the matn and isnads are.
Christianity has no authenticity test for their books. Words of disciples, words of unknown people, words of sinners/fool,etc are mixed up with words of Prophets, Words of God. What is the Apocrypha? have you heard of the New testament Apocrypha?

Islam is special. We study both the weak, fabricated and authentic Hadith to preserve our religion in the Pristine state. But not so Christianity. Christianity was never call a religion before.

true2god:
It is shocking when muslims accused others of disunity when they cant even agree on what is written in their own books. 10 different scholars with ten different interpretation of Islamic religious text. 5 different tafsir with 5 different interpretations. The tafsir of Ibn kathir and the tafsir of Jelalyn diametricxally disagreed on quran 66:1. If you own tafsir can disagreed and your hadith also disagreed on the event that led to quran 66:1, how do you want anyone to take Islam serious?

Is the difference in a Pillar of Islam or a fundamental aspect of Islam? Some Qur'an verse can have more than one meaning and it is welcomed. Each scholar will provide authentic evidence for his own deductions.

Mind you the writers of Tafsirs are humans and not angels. Over 1 Billion still take Islam seriously. Millions keep memorising the Qur'an and the Hadiths. How can you say no one is taking Islam seriously? Talk about your Christianity.

true2god:
You seem to deliberately avoided this point:

It is shocking when muslims accused others of disunity when they cant even agree on what is written in their own books. 10 different scholars with ten different interpretation of Islamic religious text. 5 different tafsir with 5 different interpretations. The tafsir of Ibn kathir and the tafsir of Jelalyn diametricxally disagreed on quran 66:1. If you own tafsir can disagreed and your hadith also disagreed on the event that led to quran 66:1, how do you want anyone to take Islam serious?

It seems you just googled out this part!

Bring out what each Tafsirs say in details and copy out the Qur'an verses 66-1-6 out for analysis.

AbuTwins:


It seems you just googled out this part!

Bring out what each Tafsirs say in details and copy out the Qur'an verses 66-1-6 out for analysis.

Check my old post; Empiree and I discussed this issue early this year.

AbuTwins:
Alhamdulillah, show us the statistics of Muslims worldwide. It is 1.8 Billion. And we said roughly 2 Billion. Prove us wrong.On our classifiction, Alhamdulillah we are sincere. we classify our Hadiths based on how authentic the matn and isnads are.
Christianity has no authenticity test for their books. Words of disciples, words of unknown people, words of sinners/fool,etc are mixed up with words of Prophets, Words of God. What is the Apocrypha? have you heard of the New testament Apocrypha?

Show us the source from where you get the 1.8 billion figures, a reputable data analysis firm? You provided the information, and not me, and so it is onus on you to provide the source.

On your hadith classification, it is on record that the total number of hadith collected by Imam Bukhari is around 600,000 which was later reduced, by modern-day Muslim, to about 7,275 hadith. Which means that Muslims discarded over 92% of all the materials collected by Imam Bukhari called the hadith. If over 92% of your hadith was initially classified as fake while the remaining 7,275 is confirmed ok, how come the supposedly good hadith (7,275 hadiths) are now further classified as weak, fabricated and strong hadith? This confusion and inconsistencies can make sense to only Muslims.

AbuTwins:
Islam is special. We study both the weak, fabricated and authentic Hadith to preserve our religion in the Pristine state. But not so Christianity. Christianity was never call a religion before.

Islam is special and confusions, lies and fabrications. We have read your books and no hiding place for your lies and brainwashing.

AbuTwins:
Is the difference in a Pillar of Islam or a fundamental aspect of Islam? Some Qur'an verse can have more than one meaning and it is welcomed. Each scholar will provide authentic evidence for his own deductions.

Can you hear what you should said? That quranic verse can have more than one meaning and this also means a single quranic verse can have at least 2 to infinity meanings. This is absurd, for a supposedly clear word of allah, and can only make sense to Muslims only.

AbuTwins:
Mind you the writers of Tafsirs are humans and not angels. Over 1 Billion still take Islam seriously. Millions keep memorising the Qur'an and the Hadiths. How can you say no one is taking Islam seriously? Talk about your Christianity.

The writers of the tafsir are meant to have a better understanding of the exegeses of the quran more than an average Muslim on the street. If they cannot agree on a common interpretation of verses on the quran how can an ordinary muslim on the street claim to understand what Islam is all about. It is like the blind leading the blind. Memorizing the quran does not signify it divine nature, the same way over 300million singing, of hand, 'Billy Jean' by Michael Jackson does not make Michael Jackson songs divine. The Japanese does not memorize the quran but they are far more morally and technically better than 99% of Muslims worldwide. So whats your point exactly?

true2god:
Check my old post; Empiree and I discussed this issue early this year.

So if you and Empiree had discussed on this before why bring it up again?

I think you will bring it up next year again with someone else. Nothing will ever satisfy you.

AbuTwins:


So if you and Empiree had discussed on this before why bring it up again?

I think you will bring it up next year again with someone else. Nothing will ever satisfy you.

I brought it up because it is necessary for reference purpose in this discussion.