johnw47:

@1)
me did not say Jesus is not the same God as Father, me said Jesus is not the same person as Father,


@2

yes indeed God is a Spirit, Father and the Word is that Spirit that is God,

johnw47:


@3)

Christ is not the same God of Himself, oh most confused one.....Jesus is God."

@1-
Jesus and the Father same God,two persons.


@2)
"God is a spirit" (In simple English, a single spirit being). Johnw still claims that "Father and the Word", two spirits is a single spirit.


@3)
The Words of Johnw LIAR and confused Pharisees is there for everyone to see...


In a nutshell, Johnw reasoning faculty is neither normal nor sane...
Desperado defending a satanic scam.

Jesus Christ said I am in my father and my father is in me in John 14 : 11, this depicts the equality . Both the father and son are one.

rosy1992:
Jesus Christ said I am in my father and my father is in me in John 14 : 11, this depicts the equality . Both the father and son are one.

My questions for you:

@1)

John14:28, What did Jesus Christ say to you?

@2)
Matt19:5,6 Husband and wife are one, pls explain 1Corinthians11:3.

johnw47:



Jesus is not the Son of "a god" as you say, but is the Son of "the God"

you said they are not two god's, and then you say, a god is the son of a god

you sure are confused

You are the one confusing yourself you are trying hard to prove what you cannot.
Let me tell you the word God is not the name of the father the word God or god is a generic name for any deity

Satan is a god likewise Demons so Jesus bearing the name God does not make him equal to the father.
The name of God is Jehovah or I AM that I AM this two names belong to only God of the Bible.

2 Corinthians 4:4
whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not
believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who
is the image of God, should shine on them.

johnw47:



my belief is similar except God(Father) didn't bring Jesus into existance 
but bought Him out of Himself, begat Him
God is a Spirit, the word is of that same ever existing Spirit

wisdom the Word always existed in God

You are confusing yourself, what is the difference from don't bring Jesus into existence and he beget Jesus?

solite3:
yes Jesus is not God the Father but God all the same.
Jesus has same capacity as the Father and the Holy Spirit but has a different role which I think is based on the personality of the trinity.
God the Father is the Authority of God
God the Son is the word, the one who makes enacts the decisions of God.
God the Holy Spirit is the one who brings it to pass.
All three are in agreement in every way.




The Father is greater than Jesus because Jesus himself was made even lower than the angels in its earthly life.


Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

You are trying to force your own meaning into God's word
Thd Father is greater than Jesus at anytime weather in Heaven or when Jesus is on Earth.
mind you it was the father that gave Jesus life ,Power and authority how can he be equal to the father?
you people are making this thing more complex than it should.

God has a son who is like God in nature but cannot be equal with God for he has a beginning while God does not.

Can one be greater than his father by age and authority?

blueAgent:



You are trying to force your own meaning into God's word
Father is greater than Jesus at anytime weather in Heaven or when Jesus is on Earth.
mind you it was the father that gave Jesus life ,Power and authority how can he be equal to the father?
you people are making this thing more complex than it should.

God has a son who is like God in nature but cannot be equal with God for he has a beginning while God does not.

Can one be greater than his father by age and authority?

The fact remains that God is directing just one and only religious group with his Spirit today, and this group is no other than "Jehovah's Witnesses"!

When others see us go out to preach and teach our responsive neighbours, they're puzzled and the feel like proving they're also Christians too.

But since God's holy spirit is not working with them, the zeal they had which was motivated by envy soon cool off and each of them returns to their materialistic pursuit.

There is nothing in their brains to preach or teach! True Christians are supposed to be the salt of the earth, meaning whoever listens to our message must feel drawn to the wonderful promises of God!

But what do misinformed Churchgoers have in their brains to preach? "Heaven is real and Hell is real" just as if all the false religions on the surface of this planet aren't having the same thought!

TRINITY is the only thing they will continue to eulogies as if the word TRINITY could be found anywhere in the Bible! Nothing worthwhile is in their brains! Just let them have a one on one discussion with an atheist, that's when you'll see them causing someone who finds it difficult to flow with their gibberish!

So when they see us zealously and industriously doing what only the spirit of God can engineer humans (who are loaded down with anxieties of life and Adamic sin) can endeavour, they feel like criticizing us since we're the only group obviously doing the WORK Jesus commissioned, and we're always telling them both in words and deeds that "our God totally differs from their God"!

Maximus69:


The fact remains that God is directing just one and only religious group with his Spirit today, and this group is no other than "Jehovah's Witnesses"!

When others see us go out to preach and teach our responsive neighbours, they're puzzled and the feel like proving they're also Christians too.

But since God's holy spirit is not working with them, the zeal they had which was motivated by envy soon cool off and each of them returns to their materialistic pursuit.

There is nothing in their brains to preach or teach! True Christians are supposed to be the salt of the earth, meaning whoever listens to our message must feel drawn to the wonderful promises of God!

But what do misinformed Churchgoers have in their brains to preach? "Heaven is real and Hell is real" just as if all the false religions on the surface of this planet aren't having the same thought!

TRINITY is the only thing they will continue to eulogies as if the word TRINITY could be found anywhere in the Bible! Nothing worthwhile is in their brains! Just let them have a one on one discussion with an atheist, that's when you'll see them causing someone who finds it difficult to flow with their gibberish!

So when they see us zealously and industriously doing what only the spirit of God can engineer humans (who are loaded down with anxieties of life and Adamic sin) can endeavour, they feel like criticizing us since we're the only group obviously doing the WORK Jesus commissioned, and we're always telling them both in words and deeds that "our God totally differs from their God"!

I admire certain teachings and doctrines of Jehovah witness but am a not a member.
My faith or membership of any Church should not matter in this issue what should matter is weather what I have written is the truth or not

Maximus69:


Wow!

So you're not one of us!

Well you can never find anything like TRINITY in the Bible, because the author is just only ONE God! Deuteronomy 6:4 compared to Mark 12:28-30

Jesus is God's firstborn son{first and foremost creature directly made by God himself} just as Adam was the firstborn son of God{in the flesh}, Jesus was the first spirit creature God made! Proverbs 8:22 compared to Luke 3:38

God's holy spirit serves as an "Active Force".
For instance, each part of the human body serves different purposes:
Eyes~ Seeing
Mouth~ Speaking, Eating
Nose~ Breathing
Hands~ Working
Legs~ Movements and so on.

God as a spirit uses his active force to carry out whatever he wishes.
©Before creation it's only his active force that's moving here and there! Genesis 1:1-2

©In Egypt he used his active force to stop all other spirit forces that's enabling the magic practicing priests to imitate his miraculous signs before Pharaoh! Exodus 8:16-19

©God's active force enabled Balaam's donkey to speak! Numbers 22:28

©Samson was killing thousands of Philistines because God's active force was energizing him! Judges 16:28

©Elijah ran ahead of horses as God's active force enabled him! 1Kings 18:46

©God anointed his only begotten son at his baptism by means of the active force! Matthew 3:16-17

©After the establishment of Christianity God bless the Christians by using his active force to help them to accomplish unimaginable things!
Act 2:1-4, 3:1-8, 5:15

So the Holy Spirit is NOT a person like Jehovah and Jesus, it's just what God uses to accomplish his purposes.

Before his death, Stephen looked up into the heavens and he saw just two persons, God and Jesus standing by God's right hand! Act 7:56

But where is the holy spirit? Well it's just the force God used to enable Stephen see what ordinary eyes can't perceive! Act 7:55

God bless you!

I totally agree with you sir.

malvisguy212:
Can we really understand the trinity ? We can't , how can a finite being understand an infinite God ? Our responsibility is to believe what God has said about Himself.

The old testament prove the fact that there is ONLY ONE GOD. Isreal is surrounded with many nation that worship different gods. God people needed to know that there is only ONE GOD:

Deut. 6:4
"Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God is ONE LORD"

This verse give two details about God. 1. The nature of God (God's ONENESS) and 2. Jehovah is the only God. The old testament emphasizing of the UNITY of God, is not silent with respect to the PLURALITY of God's Nature. The old testament lay the groundwork for the new testament revelation.

The hebrew word for God is Elohim, plural in
form."In the beginning God CREATED" (Genesis
1:1). God is the omnipotent CREATOR! The
name for "God" found in Genesis 1:1 is the
Hebrew word "ELOHIM" the ending of this word
(..IM) is a plural ending,(more than one) just like
our english language "S" is the ending word for
plural. For example:

1. CHERUBIM (Exodus 25:18-20)
2. SERAPHIM (Isaiah 6:2,6)
3. TERAPHIM(judges 17:5)

The words end with IM , they are plural in form.
In Genesis 1:1 the verb "CREATED" is a
SINGULAR verb, and it means "HE (singular)
CREATED." Two answers may be given to the
question, "Who created the heavens and the
earth?".

1. HE DID (singular) because the verb means
"HE CREATED." The verb does not mean
"THEY CREATED."
2. GOD DID (plural) because the word
ELOHIM is a plural word!

So, there is a sense in which God the Creator is
singular. There is only ONE God and He is the
Creator. There is no other God. It is also true
that there is a sense in which He is plural. This
brings us to our next point:

PLURAL UNITY OF GOD.
Deuteronomy 6:4 says: "Hear, O Israel: The
LORD [singular] our God [ELOHIM-plural] is ONE
Lord."

God is Love, if God is two, our Love will be
DIVIDED and one will not Get our full devotion.
So YES, God is ONE and He deserve our Full
attention.

The Hebrew word"ONE"found in Deuteronomy 6:4
is a word that can be used to describe a
plural (composite) UNITY (a unity made up of
more than one component). For Example in
Genesis 11:5 "Behold, the PEOPLE IS ONE." The
people (plural) at Babel were united together as
ONE. It was a UNITY, but it was made up of
many people (a plural unity).

Another example is in Genesis 2:24 where the
same word "one" is found: "Therefore shall a
man leave his father and his mother and shall
cleave unto his wife and they shall be one flesh."
Here we have a plural unity. It is a ONENESS
made up of two persons" a husband and a wife"
They (plural) shall be one (singular) flesh. The
two are one.

Just as Genesis 11:5 speaks of a plural unity
(many people being ONE), and just as Genesis
2:24 speaks of a plural unity (two people being
ONE), so also Deuteronomy 6:4 describes God
who is a PLURAL UNITY. Later we will learn that
this plural unity is actually a TRI-UNITY.

In Isaiah 6:8 , we have a threefold
declaration of God's holiness: "And one cried
unto another, and said, HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is
the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of His
glory" (Isaiah 6:3). we learn elsewhere in
Scripture, namely that 1) God the Father is Holy
(John 17:11); 2) God the Son is Holy (Heb. 7:26
and compare Luke 1:35); 3) God the Holy Spirit
is Holy (as His very Name declares)

In Genesis , God is repeatedly mention as the
creator, and in Genesis 1:2 we saw how the Holy
spirit is actively involve " was moving in the face
of the water. And in john 1:1 we understand that
the Word (jesus) was God and everything were
created through Him.

Does Elohim Mean Trinity?
Many people today who believe in the Trinity teaching, tend to
use the word 'Elohim' referring to God in Genesis 1:26, and
say this is the Trinity, because the verse says 'let us make
man in our image'. So because this verse uses the words 'us'
and 'our', and the word 'Elohim' means plural, they
automatically think that this is talking about the Trinity - 3 in 1
God.
But we will prove on this page that the word Elohim does not
support the Trinity teaching.
First of all, when a Hebrew would read the word 'Elohim' in
reference to God, they would never understand it as a literal
'plural God'. Whenever the Jews read about God, they would
always have the understanding that the true God is only one
God, not two or three. Take a look at these verses from
Deuteronomy and Mark:
Deuteronomy 6:4 ...'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one
Lord .'
Mark 12:28-29,32 ...'And one of the scribes came, and having
heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had
answered them well, asked him, which is the first
commandment of all? And Jesus answered him, the first of all
the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one
Lord . And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast
said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but
HE '
So the Hebrew mind had a firm understanding that there is
only one God, not three. And this is confirmed again in John
8:54, where Jesus said ... 'If I honour myself, my honour is
nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say,
that he is your God .'
So the question remains, why does the word Elohim mean
'plural' when referring to God? Well, it doesn't actually mean
plural in regards to persons . It's meaning in English is 'plural
of majesty'. It does not denote more than one. It actually
denotes 'greatness' and 'majesty'. And we can prove this
from the scriptures :
Exodus 7:1 ...'And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made
thee a god [ELOHIM] to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall
be thy prophet.'
Did God tell Moses that He was going to make him a 'trinity'
to Pharaoh? Of course not. God is telling Moses that He was
going to make him 'GREAT' in the eyes of Pharaoh. Which is
what the word Elohim really means ... 'greatness' and
'majesty'. Look at how this is revealed in 1 Chronicles 29.
1 Chronicles 29:10-11 ...'Wherefore David blessed the Lord
before all the congregation: and David said, Blessed be thou,
Lord God [Elohim] of Israel our father , for ever and ever. Thine,
O Lord is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the
victory, and the majesty : for all that is in the heaven and in the
earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O Lord, and thou art
exalted as head above all.'
THIS is the 'plurality' of Elohim. It is a 'plurality of majesty',
just as David confirmed above. And it belongs to God the
Father, as 'head above all' - even the head of Christ (1
Corinthians 11:3)
Now did God make Moses 'great' unto Pharaoh? Yes, the
Bible confirms it in Exodus 11 ... Exodus 11:3 ...'And the Lord
gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians. Moreover
the man Moses was very great in the land of Egypt, in the
sight of Pharaoh's servants, and in the sight of the people.'
So as you can see, the word Elohim does not in any way
support the Trinity doctrine. If we use the Bible to interpret
itself, then we can see the truth. And the truth is, our God, the
Father, is ONE God , which the Bible confirms a number of
times. And Jesus Christ is the Son of the One true living God.
Take a look at the following interesting quote concerning
Elohim and the Trinity:
"... it is
certain that the Jewish church held to no such doctrine. Says
Mr. Summerbell, 'A friend of mine who was present in a New
York synagogue, asked the Rabbi for an explanation of the
word 'Elohim'. A Trinitarian clergyman who stood by, replied,
'Why, that has reference to the three persons in the Trinity,'
when a Jew stepped forward and said he must not mention
that word again , or they would have to compel him to leave the
house; for it was not permitted to mention the name of any
strange god in the synagogue." (J.N.Loughborough, Review
and Herald, Nov.5, 1861)
The Jews, whom the scriptures came through, from God, knew
exactly that our God is ONE God , not three. And there can be
no doubt that 'Elohim' refers to God the Father, who is the
ONE true God, and it does not support in any way the false
Trinity doctrine. But why does Genesis 1:26 use the words
'us' and 'our'? This is really simple and straight forward. The
word 'Elohim' refers to God the Father, because it was God the
Father who spoke those words. But who is He speaking to?
He is speaking to Jesus Christ His Son! This is why God
says, let 'us' make man in 'our' image. It is God the Father,
speaking to Jesus Christ. Let's confirm this with the following
inspired quote:
"After the earth was created, and the beasts upon it, the Father
and Son carried out their purpose, which was designed before
the fall of Satan, to make man in their own image. They had
wrought together in the creation of the earth and every living
thing upon it. And now God says to his Son, Let us make man
in our image ." (Spiritual Gifts, Vol.3, p.33)
Notice, there is no mention of any 'third god'. Just the Father
and Son. With the Father being THE GOD.
Friend, God has clearly revealed to us the truth concerning His
Godhead. And He has clearly shown in His Word that the
trinity doctrine is false. The word 'Elohim' as you can see
does not support the trinity in any way. Please seek the truth
on this, as eternal life is based on believing and knowing the
TRUE God, and Jesus Christ whom God sent to save us.
John 17:3 ...'And this is life eternal, that they might know thee
the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.'
For a lot more information about the true Godhead, the Holy
Spirit and the false Trinity doctrines

rosy1992:
Jesus Christ said I am in my father and my father is in me in John 14 : 11, this depicts the equality . Both the father and son are one.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

You can see from the Bible verse above that both Father and Son are separate beings

secondly Jesus said this in the book John 17:23

I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in
one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and
hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
John 14:20
At that day you shall know that I am in my Father, and you in
me, and I in you.


From this verses we can deduce that Jesus meant unity(oneness) and not that he and his father are one person.

If trinity was true using your (One) logic than it means God is a Billionity, but that is not possible becos Jesus in those two verses I listed is talking about Christains been in him and him in them and both been in God he was talking in terms of oneness or unity of the divine family.

Janosky:

Brain scrubbed Pharisee,your father begat you therefore you and your father is one human being.

Johnw lying Pharisee who says Jesus is not the same God the Father but him Pharisee brain shut down.
"God is a Spirit" , is a single spiritual being.
Dubious Pharisee had to type "not two gods " whereas he can NEVER prove where JWs called YHWH "two gods"
Mumu Pharisee.

I wonder how some people reason, it was God that gave us all the language we have so why will God tell us he beget Jesus and men will be doubting God like God is learning English for the first time.

These are strong words that are used to describe Jesus that you cannot ignore.

First creation
First born of all creations. Colossians 1:15,proverbs 8:22
Only BEGOTTEN Son John 3:16
Son of God
Son by Inheritance John 16:15
Sent by God John 17:3
come out from the Father John 16:27
A prophet of God isaiah 53:11,luke 24:19
A servant of God. Isaiah42:1

Jesus own words my father is greater than me. John 14:28
You heard that I
said to you, 'I go
away, and I will
come to you.' If
you loved me, you
would have
rejoiced because I
go to the Father,
for the Father is
greater than I

I wonder how people will see this words and many others I could not list and still want to force their own meaning on this words like Jesus and his father are learning how to speak and talk.

blueAgent:



You are trying to force your own meaning into God's word

I am not forcing any meaning into God's word, I say it as it is.

Thd Father is greater than Jesus at anytime weather in Heaven or when Jesus is on Earth.
mind you it was the father that gave Jesus life ,Power and authority how can he be equal to the father?
you people are making this thing more complex than it should.

Now where does the bible state the father gave life to Jesus, is there?
You said how can Jesus be equal with the father? The bible is replete with the fact that Jesus is equal to the father.

John 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Interesting isn't? That the father commands everybody to give equal honor that they accord the father to Jesus.
Are you going to disobey the father? This is the father saying that the Son is equal to him.
Also see

Hebrews 1:6
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

The father command all angels to worship Jesus.

If Jesus is not equal to the father, why would the father command all angels to worhip Jesus and all men to give the same honor that they give the father to the Son.

God has a son who is like God in nature but cannot be equal with God for he has a beginning while God does not.

Can one be greater than his father by age and authority?

@ bolded this has contradicted your claim

If Jesus has same nature with God
What are the characters of that nature?
1.That God cannot be created,
he is eternal i.e He does not have a beginning neither an end

2.He is Almighty by nature, He can do all things

3. He by nature is to be worshipped

4.He is Omnipresent, Omnipotent ( which is the same as Almighty) and Omniscience

Among all other characters

If Jesus has the same nature as God it means Jesus is also
Uncreated, have no beginning or ending
Almighty
Omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscience
He is to be worshipped among all other characters of God.

Mind you Jesus has the exact nature of God.

Hebrews described Jesus as the express ( complete and perfect) image of God.
If Jesus is less than God then, He could no longer be the express image of God.

Hebrews 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

HedwigesMaduro:


Please I will need the scriptures where Jesus was said to be YHWH.

YHWH is a name for God and Father and the Word is God:

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Hence Father and Jesus is YHWH

HedwigesMaduro:

From this logic it means you are as old as your dad since you were in his "bowels" before you were born, so to say.

oh most duh one, my dad and i are human, not God
my age began when i took my first breath

the word is of God's Spirit which has always existed
the Word always existed in God, and became a seperate person when Father begat Him

Janosky:



Johnw lying Pharisee and his falsehood are conjoined twins.
Him mumu tie wrapper.

lying pharisee™ deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ

like hedwiges you think because the Word always existed in God
then humans must also be as old as their fathers

ha ha such a mumu brain

Janosky:


Dull brain Johnw lying Pharisee.
Revelation 3:12 & John17:3 reset your mumu brainwashed lies.
Rev3:12 ,John17:3 Jesus the Son of his God and Father says your mumu is beyond redemption.
Go & cook up more lies to copy and paste.

lying pharisee™ deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ

you keep bringing up rev 3:12 all over the place
i explained your confusion about that verse and i even gave you a link to it,
but you are avoiding it like the plague

you are one who rejects the truth and keeps on posting your lies
but then you are a false jw

Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Janosky:




@1-
Jesus and the Father same God,two persons.


@2)
"God is a spirit" (In simple English, a single spirit being). Johnw still claims that "Father and the Word", two spirits is a single spirit.


@3)
The Words of Johnw LIAR and confused Pharisees is there for everyone to see...


In a nutshell, Johnw reasoning faculty is neither normal nor sane...
Desperado defending a satanic scam.

lying pharisee™ deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ

i of course don't think Father and the Word is two spirits in a single spirit.
i think Father and the word is two persons of the same Spirit which is God
but of course you satans mob cannot stop lying, just like your daddy

ha ha ha what confusion
truly oh great know nothing, God is one, God is a Spirit, God is one Spirit-one God
not two spirits-gods as you polytheist false jw's bvelieve, a almighty god the father and a mighty god jesus, laughing

the two persons, Father and the Word, have the same spirit, that One Spirit that is God:

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

however you will never understand oh so confused false jw
your active force(satan) fools you  




1Co_14:33  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

blueAgent:



You are the one confusing yourself you are trying hard to prove what you cannot.

no truly it's you that's confused, fess up, Father God is not "a god" as you said, but "the God"

duh one, i'm not trying hard to prove anything
people say foolish things and i sometimes reply to them
which is what i am doing now with you

i will leave the rest of your confusion for you to ponder
[/quote]

blueAgent:



You are confusing yourself, what is the difference from don't bring Jesus into existence and he beget Jesus?

laugh, oh mightily confused one, you say you are not a jw
i recommend you join them, putting the goats with the goats
they don't understand things of the Spirit either

once again:
God(Father) never bought the Word into existancw because the Word always existed in God

God(Father) begat the word, bought Him out of Himself

Maximus69:


The fact remains that God is directing just one and only religious group with his Spirit today, and this group is no other than "Jehovah's Witnesses"!

false jw mad™ max

the apostles preached Christ, you false jw mad max preach false jw's, non stop
but keep it up, you might convince yourself of it one day, smile

Christians praise Jesus, you praise false jw's, such a deluded one

Maximus69:
When others see us go out to preach and teach our responsive neighbours, they're puzzled and the feel like proving they're also Christians too.

ha ha, what rot-lies you preach, you are forever trying to prove that you are God's people
Christians don't do that, like the apostles we know we are God's people, no need to keep affirming it to ourselves
or others



as you see i didn't waste time on most of your irrational rantings

as for the false jw pics
do you think the apostles would have lined up all over the country side
for people to see how pretty they are, ha ha, you are sure a queer lot

*

johnw47:




once again:
God(Father) never bought the Word into existancw because the Word always existed in God

God(Father) begat the word, bought Him out of Himself

You existed in your Father's loins before he brought you forth....
Your Father brought you out of himself (from his loins).
Likewise, Jesus Christ was "brought forth" (meaning =Created) .
You need to enroll in an Adult Literacy Class to get better understanding of English, because (you're contradicting yourself , I'm not the first person to say that here ooo. Others have said so too) you just proved that your brain is sawdust.
Desperado defending a scam doctrine. . Lols

Janosky:

You existed in your Father's loins before he brought you forth....
Your Father brought you out of himself (from his loins).
Likewise, Jesus Christ was "brought forth" (meaning =Created) .

lying pharisee™ deceiver false jw janosky/OneJ

oh what great confusion you have oh most duh one, i didn't exist until i was born
God the word always existed in God, God's spirit didn't have a beginning, He always existed
the Eternal Word cannot be created when He always existed, God (Father) bought Him forth as a separate person to Himself
Father and the word, are two identical persons of the one Spirit that is God

Janosky:
You need to enroll in an Adult Literacy Class to get better understanding of English, because (you're contradicting yourself , I'm not the first person to say that here ooo. Others have said so too) you just proved that your brain is sawdust.
Desperado defending a scam doctrine. . Lols

you have claimed contradictions, and i have shown you wrong
have others also been lying like you, well who woud have thought

laughing, you are talking about yourself again oh most confused know nothing
you and yours will never understand, your active force(satan) deceives you

solite3:
that means according to you they are different Gods right?

According to you what does "the head of Christ is God" mean? What does "the Father is greater than I" mean?
Did you ever read YHWH calling Jesus his God in the bible? Did you read it being said of YHWH that all authority was given to Him?

HedwigesMaduro:

According to you what does "the head of Christ is God" mean?

Not according to me. The man is the head of woman does it mean a man is a higher human than a woman? Headship does not mean superiority or inferiority

What does "the Father is greater than I" mean?
Did you ever read YHWH calling Jesus his God in the bible?

go back to my previous post and read carefully.

Did you read it being said of YHWH that all authority was given to Him?

rather the question should be , if Jesus is not Almighty God why will All power be given to him?

johnw47:


laugh, oh mightily confused one, you say you are not a jw
i recommend you join them, putting the goats with the goats
they don't understand things of the Spirit either

once again:
God(Father) never bought the Word into existancw because the Word always existed in God

God(Father) begat the word, bought Him out of Himself

You need to attend English classes.
Weather he was existing inside God or not the most important fact is that it was God that beget Jesus, it was God that fathered (mind my grammar)Jesus, it was God that gave Jesus life and his own existence.

johnw47:



no truly it's you that's confused, fess up, Father God is not "a god" as you said, but "the God"

duh one, i'm not trying hard to prove anything
people say foolish things and i sometimes reply to them
which is what i am doing now with you

i will leave the rest of your confusion for you to ponder

Still not making any sense.

solite3:
I am not forcing any meaning into God's word, I say it as it is.



Now where does the bible state the father gave life to Jesus, is there?
You said how can Jesus be equal with the father? The bible is replete with the fact that Jesus is equal to the father.

John 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Interesting isn't? That the father commands everybody to give equal honor that they accord the father to Jesus.
Are you going to disobey the father? This is the father saying that the Son is equal to him.
Also see

Hebrews 1:6
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

The father command all angels to worship Jesus.

If Jesus is not equal to the father, why would the father command all angels to worhip Jesus and all men to give the same honor that they give the father to the Son.




@ bolded this has contradicted your claim

If Jesus has same nature with God
What are the characters of that nature?
1.That God cannot be created,
he is eternal i.e He does not have a beginning neither an end

2.He is Almighty by nature, He can do all things

3. He by nature is to be worshipped

4.He is Omnipresent, Omnipotent ( which is the same as Almighty) and Omniscience

Among all other characters

If Jesus has the same nature as God it means Jesus is also
Uncreated, have no beginning or ending
Almighty
Omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscience
He is to be worshipped among all other characters of God.

Mind you Jesus has the exact nature of God.

Hebrews described Jesus as the express ( complete and perfect) image of God.
If Jesus is less than God then, He could no longer be the express image of God.

Hebrews 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

really.
John 5:26
For as the Father has life in himself; so has he given to the
Son to have life in himself;

You are just running after shadow.
There are hundreds of Bible verses that says Jesus is not Co-equal with God you ignore them and come here to type inconsistent points.

You heard that I
said to you, 'I go
away, and I will
come to you.' If
you loved me, you
would have
rejoiced because I
go to the Father,
for the Father is
greater than I
( John 14:28

Was Jesus drunk when he said this?

Why did God say he beget Jesus?

I guess you are older than your father since you and your father have the same nature?

Emusan:


If you understand it this way, then no need for the below question...

but Clarity sake...I'll address the question in short period.




Any Christian who says "The Father" (Note: I used Father here instead of God as you did) is the same PERSON as Jesus Christ vis-a-vis doesn't understand scripture well.



In the Old Testament, nobody talks about Son of God or the person of Holy Spirit as we do today simply because the New Testament writers shield more light about the co-existing and co-eternal of the Three which would have resulted to Polytheistic view if Trinity doctrine wasn't adopted.

Now, to your question:
But because of the redemption role Christ is still playing until fulfillment of the whole promises of God.

The Bible recorded some kind of revelation about the presence of the Father in heaven but the only person the Bible says we'll see is Jesus Christ till every process is complete and "God MAY BE ALL IN ALL" 1 Corinthian 15:28

Adam Clarke puts it this way "...then the son Son, as being man and Messiah, shall cease to exercise any distinct dominion and GOD BE ALL IN ALL: there remaining no longer any distinction in the PERSONS of the glorious TRINITY...."

This is one of the verses many people who argue against Trinity don't understand.

My humble submission!

Crap. this is mere human reasoning not God's word.
So God and his twin are script playing father and son till all evil are eliminated?

blueAgent:


really.
John 5:26
For as the Father has life in himself; so has he given to the
Son to have life in himself;

where did it say the father gave life to Jesus? You are reading your mind into the bible.

You are just running after shadow.
There are hundreds of Bible verses that says Jesus is not Co-equal with God you ignore them and come here to type inconsistent points.

go back to my previous response and read slowly and carefully.

You heard that I
said to you, 'I go
away, and I will
come to you.' If
you loved me, you
would have
rejoiced because I
go to the Father,
for the Father is
greater than I
( John 14:28

Was Jesus drunk when he said this?

Why did God say he beget Jesus?

I guess you are older than your father since you and your father have the same nature?

your father is older than you, does it make him a higher human than you, does it?
You are comparing apples with mangoes. Human fathers have an origin because that it is the nature of humans but not God.

God cannot be created hence that your analogy fails woefully.


The issue of age doesn't apply to God because he is ageless.
Just as the father is ageless so the Son is ageless.
Reason
God is ageless.

blueAgent:
The trinity doctrine teaches that God the Father, the Son and the Holyspirit are equal and one and the same God.
   Although a very popular and widely accepted doctrine among christains the trinity doctrine is unbiblical and not in accordance with the word of God. The word Trinity does not appear in the Bible neither was such doctrine taught by the Apostles or known to the early Christains.
The trinity doctrine was instituted by men at the Council of Nicaea in AD325 and at Council of Constantinople in AD381.
The trinity doctrine has it's origin in pagan Sun god worship that was started by Nimrod and his wife.

Who is God and Jesus?
The Bible is clear on the identity of God and his Son, Jesus they are 2 different beings or persons
Although one in unity and purpose, their relationship is that of father and Son.
The Apostles always identified God as the father who has neither beginning or end ,who alone has immortality,all power and authority  they also identified and distinguished  Jesus as the only begotten Son of God  and not God the Father himself here is an  example.
2John1:3  Grace be with you, mercy and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
The identity of Jesus was well known to the discples of Jesus
Peter  in Matt 16:16,Martha the sister of  Lazarus, the  Centurion man,the high priest and many others  including the   Demons all identified Jesus as the son of God (remember Demons are fallen Angels)matthew8:29.
It is important that we understand who Jesus is, as  Jesus himself was interested in knowing whom people said he was. Luke 9:18

All through the Bible the personality of God and Jesus has been established and clearly stated.
It will be illogical for Jesus while he was on Earth to teach that he was sent by his father if  he himself was the father.
The question is who sent Jesus?
who did Jesus pray to when he was on the cross or when he raised Lazarus from the grave?Who was Jesus pleading to  to take away the cup? John 12:27
Whose will was Jesus referring to when he said father not my will but yours, mark 14:36
The evidence shows that Jesus was not the Father acting as the Son here on Earth but was the Son of God sent by God to the Earth to die as a ransom for man,John 6:38

Jesus, Son of God

The trinity doctrine teaches a 3in 1 god, that there are 3 but equal gods.
It denies the word of God that says Jesus is the BEGOTTEN Son of God. the same way a biological father proceeds his son so also God the Father proceeds his son, Jesus  Christ.
The Bible refers to Jesus as the first born of all creations Colossians 1:15,proverbs 8:22-end,Rev 3:14.
Jesus was brought into existence  at a certain time by his father before the World was created. Acts 13:33, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

John5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; so it was God that gave Jesus life and not Jesus having his own life independently as claimed by trinitarians.
here are Jesus own words on his origin and existence.
Proverbs 8:22.
Unlike the Angels and other created beings who were made by the hand of  God, Jesus proceeded or came out  from his father John 8:42,16:27&28,17:8
He had the very nature , image and substance of his father, God. which no other created being has. Hebrews 1:4 Being MADE so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?  1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Note: Angels are sons of God by creation,born again Christains are sons of God by adoption (Romans 8:14-15) but Jesus Christ is the Son of God by inheritance Heb 1:4,

Are they Equal?

The trinity teaches that Jesus and the Holyspirit are co-equal with God but the Bible is abundantly clear that the son is not Co-equal with God.
No where in the Bible did Jesus  ever call himself God or equate himself to the father rather he reiterated the fact that he was sent by the father to do the will of the father and that the one who sends another is greater than the one sent.John13:16-20.
John 17:13, Matthew 10:40,John 10:18.
Rather than claim equality with God as fasely  taught by the trinity doctrine Jesus declares that his father is greater than him in John 14:28,he also calls his father his God Matt 27:46,John 20:17, here are some other verses to clearify this point
1Corinthains11:3,Colossians 1:14-19,John 5:19-47,John 5:19 & 5:20,John 5:27, Isaiah 53:11,Isaiah 42:1,Isaiah 49:7 Luke 24:19,
Philippians 2:5
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 2:6 Who, being in the form of God(nature of God, of cos he was born by God so he will bear God's nature), thought it not robbery to be equal with God:  2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men :2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name.

God Honours his Son.

After the ressurection and Ascension of Jesus to Heaven  God exalted Jesus and gave him a name above every other name Philippians 2:9.
It will be illogical for God to exalts and give power and authority to Jesus if he was co- equal with God and already had those privileges.Ephesians 1:20-23, Mark 12:36.
The Bible also teaches that at the end of the great controversy between good and evil when all power and principalities have been subdued for the sake of Jesus. Than Jesus will subject all things including himself to God 1Corinthians 15:28.

Who is the Holyspirit.

The Holyspirit is not a person or being as taught by the trinitarians but the the Holyspirit is the spirit of God and his Son Jesus, Ephesians 4:30, 1Thessalonians 4:8,God is a spirit who has a spirit which is his  mind,will,purpose,power,  and presence Genesis 1:2, Zachariah 4:6, 1peter 1:1.
It is this spirit  that God sends to us that dwells in us and enables us to do his will,Romans 8:9&11, 1john4:13, Isaiah 63:11, 1Corinthains 3:16, 1 Corinthians 12:8-11,John 7:39,14:17, Ezeikel 36:27.
Just as we showed earlier that Jesus did nothing of his own will or desire but that of his father so also the Holy spirit can only speak and show what it is instructed to say . This is evidence that it is not a being Co-equal with God that has it's own power and will.
There are few verses  that have been taken out of context and are used by  the trinitarians to promote their false doctrines
E.g is that the Bible refers to the Holy spirit as HE this does not prove  anything because  there are examples in the Bible where non- living things are personified or expressed with words like he or his examples are in proverbs 1:20,7:4,8:1,9:1where wisdom and knowledge are reffered to as he,his,she this also applies to the Holy spirit.
The Holy Spirit is likened  to a gift
In Luke 11:13,God pours out his Holy spirit Acts 2:18.
The identity and function of the Holy Spirit will be treated in subsequent articles.

Implications of the Trinity doctrine.

This doctrine has severe implications and consequences as it teaches that Jesus is not the literal Son of God,that Jesus is the same age as the father and has always existed along side him but this will make them twins and not a real  Father and Son it also teaches that the holyspirit is a being  Co-equal and  co-eternal making them triplets.

Thus the trinity doctrine denies that both the father and son are two different persons thus it denies their personality or persons.

Apostle Paul taught Christains that the Antichrist is anyone or teaching that denies Jesus is the son of God and thus denies the father and son  1John2:22-23,1john 4:3
It distorts who God says he is.
The doctrine of trinity also lends credance  or promotes the Catholic teaching that Mary is the mother of God  since it claims Jesus is   God and Co-equal to God. It is not surprising that this trinity doctrine was instituted by the usual suspects the Catholic Church and they claim it is the foundation on which all other of there teachings is based on.

Note:The angel that delivered the message  to Virgin  Mary  told her that the  child will be called( the Son of God) and not God. Nothing stops God from describing Jesus as God or his twin or avatar, rather he  used the adjective SON of God to distinguish him from the Father.

Conclusion.
The trinity doctrine cannot be proved in the Bible neither does it have any divine origin or inspiration.
It is one of those man made doctrines that have crept into Christaintity. it is unacceptable to God and contracdicts God's word about himself.
A lot of lies have been sold to us as Bible doctrines which are not Biblical, I urge the readers to do more research on this topic and to diligently search the word of God  2 Timothy 2:15, just like Paul said that we should prove all things through the scripture, rightfully dividing the word of God and not depending on men or some few Bible verses that have been lifted out of context inorder to suit a preconcieved  belief or idea.1Thessalonians 5:21

Thank you.



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I totally agree with you.

God the Father and Jesus are two separate beings. They are of the Godkind. Jesus has everything that makes God God.

The funny thing is that no one has interfaced with God the Father. Jesus is God in the old testament. From Jesus' interaction with Abraham, Moses to the Israelites and taking Jesus' word when he said "no one has seen the Father" only solidify this point. Holy Spirit is the power(action) of God and Jesus and is not a person at all.

When we tell people these things they call us atheist or Antichrist