this stuff is true, i saw d video from pastor craig lewis, hip hop is truely evil

See this comes down to acknowledging God and his son Jesus, if there is a God he represents a pure Good, and the opposite is Evil. Sorry if you say there is no existence of either good or evil then where does Jesus come in since that was the point of his death. Please let me know because most of your responses leave him out of the equation and it is very important for me to know where you stand on that? Sorry don’t mean to offend anyone but never in the bible does it makes reference to the Ying and Yang doctrine, that in pure evil there is a little good and in pure good there is a little evil.

I am discussion a spiritual warfare, and the power of Christ, I believe that the Bible is the inspired truth and living word of God, Due to the fall of man ref. Genesis Chpt 1 -3 we are born into sin/ a sinful world, hence the importance of Jesus being our saving grace. The only way to make that transition is through Christ, not by your own will of choosing to be good, so that statement is false about people not being able to be evil.

See its hard for me to even try to fathom the argument from your perspective because you would like to have me believe that humanity is the answer, we are the answer, which if you would like to believe in the faith of humanity that is fine, but I hope that you are aware of the conscious decision that you have made.

I choose to believe in Christ – does the bible go into the technicalities about music and playing it backwards and lyrics and beats…NOPE, not one versus.
Why is Hip Hop being discussed at all, after all Hip Hop is a form of expression, does that form of expression hinder your relationship with Christ? (and that’s where your truth can begin) I don’t have to be paranoia of the technicalities of music, all  have to do is be aware of the realities that exist, see for me to acknowledge a reality is not called a paranoia its called growing in Christ

See what I am encouraging is a relationship with Christ. Everything else will come naturally after that, then I will no longer need to communicate to you the existence of the principalities at work, because he will be communicating it directly to you.  

Please view this site, for those who haven’t see the movie, it is an article based off this particular topic ‘The Sad truth about Hip Hop’

http://www.exministries.com/charisma.html

Sorry I had to touch on one thing, Why do we have preachers and deacons and members is based off the fellowship of Christ. Our body being a temple holy onto him, he uses our body to get his message out to people. So you will hear many times people refer to their ministries as a calling from God, or a word from God. You want to test the truth of it,
1) Hold what s/he is saying to the word of God (the bible)
2) Is his or her life filled and reflective of Christ
3) Prayer

So I dont need to take things hook line and sinker, before I even respond, type or listen, I pray and ask for God's will

Im not sure so Im asking have either of you watched the movie?

I have not watched the movie and I really don't plan to. Once again, media is often mistaken, biased, and misleading. I find it very closeminded of you to say that you can not even fathom my argument, because I can clearly see your point. I see where you're coming from, but what I'm trying to say is hip hop is just a form of expression. I'm sure that no one really wants to influence any of us with evil messages. (I know, I'm going into the "Technicalities" again)

Also, there really isn't a tangible "Evil", just as there are really no dark or cold. Dark is the absence of light, cold is the absence of heat, and "Evil" is simply the absence of good, or God.

A culture, race, or civilization is not evil, it is simply different. This is what you need to understand. Things that you consider evil may be seen as good in other's eyes. Sometimes antiwar activists are seen as heroes, other times they are seen as traitors.

I think if you open your eyes and be more accepting, as I've hope you've been taught to be, you'll find that the hip hop culture is simply different from your own, and there is nothing "Evil about it".

Once again, I completely understand where you are coming from.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

And of you I would like to ask, have you ever actually taken the time to listen to this so called "Evil" form of expression?

. . . .i doubt it, what with the way all the arguments against HipHop sound judgemental.

The same God we serve uses about the most wretched souls as his instruments on earth. The same Jesus dined with sinners, corrupt tax collectors and yet never compromised and never was judgemental and conclusive about people.

Those that castigate and say HipHop is evil in turn are saying Gospel or Christian rappers are part of that evil, yet it is still the same "evil" HipHop that Christian rappers like KJ-52, David Cook, Ill Harmonics use to propagate God's Word and have affected and converted listeners.

These Christian rappers are testimony enough that it is the manner in which the "self " is "expressed" that determines the message! Give a Gangsta rapper the mic, what he expresses is his gangsta lifestyle and it thus influences his message. In that same manner, give a Christian rapper the mic and his lifestyle is expressed through the message he passes across. Shikena

THANK YOU

The kingdom of God is like a virgin's kitten, Ni##as with Big D!cks can't get in!

- That is a line of Gospel rap from an ex-addict turned convert. What does your pastor lewis have to say about this?

The convert said, in order to get the underground peeps to come to Christ, he needs to go really underground. If he's saying we shouldn't use the name Hip-Hop then I'm sorry for all who believe all they see or hear.

Listen to sensible music only. Isn't that easy? Is he saying if Snoop becomes born again today and starts to sing Gospel (even if it was just a set up) should he be ignored?

Let me remind you of this line from Tupac:

Who you believe in
I put my faith in God that's who I believe in. . .

It'll be a great shame to think that gangsta rappers do not believe in God.


BTNH, I ain't seen any rappers believe so much in God than these guys. Besides Dogsinatas (which is actually true, satan is the god of this world) I have nothing against them.

If KRS-1 says we are gods, he's repeating what Jesus Christ said. Behold I tell ye that ye are gods (sometimes, sons of God)

Only someone who has little knowledge of the Bible will fall for this movie - not me. There are worse things in the church now, like Gospel gangsta rap, gospel Fuji, Gospel Makossa, Gospel Yahoo Dance and so on.

"shake that arse (booty) for Jesus" and so on and so forth and all you see wrong is hip-hop? Someone needs to be checked and it's obviously not Chris

YES, thank you

At least there are some people with sense in this crazy world.

That pastor is the same one who preaches against boys wearing two ear rings, and backwards lyrics. Also, check out his website. He basically is part of a business. They have Bleep content on the site, and a section where you can book him for money.

Maybe now people will start to see that it's not hip hop thats sending unsavory messages, it's the people that think they know best, and feel the need to interfere in other's lives.

For Me,This Is Real Big Confusion. and Bullsh*t.Do u think listening to hip-hop songs will make u not to go to heven?if yes,i tell u,ur just deciecving urself.For me,Hip-Hop Is stuck to my system and mind u,it only depends on the kind of hip-hop u listen to and not hip-hop generally.



U wan Go heven Heeeeee?

@topic;The only mistake i see is the fact this is being taken out on hiphop & not the artistes.
@Christino; I'm sorry but u really disappointed me with that "dogsinatas not being bad" talk.Cos i know that deep in ur heart,u know that bonethugz are evil. I mean why try to emphasize that satan is earth's god so much as to put it on ur album cover if u really mean no harm.Be real.
AND @ VFKNGRE; Its a pity u dont believe in backward subliminal messages.Ever heard of annagrams?well this is something similar. & u cant say musicians are not trying to influence listeners,cos what on earth is the point of singing if listeners are not influenced?
Instead of trying to justify faults which the truth has exposed,why not just try to see reason in my words. Eg.I've listening to MTVbase & i hear this song almost everyday- 'Heaven or hell' by joy denalane.The chorus goes something like this:
"What do i believe in,heaven or hell?I dont believe in heaven cos i'm living in hell"
Now what is the 'good news' in this songFor some days now,i've found myself unconsciously repeating this line which is bad for me cos it may have adverse effects on my faith. OR "and i was just about to find God,but now that mase is back,i think i'd much rather find a minage" by Fat joe in 'New york'. This one actually encourages us to choose sex etc over God yet u say they dont mean to influence anyone.Sorry to say,thats just lame justification for d evils of hiphop.
These people know exactly what they're doing & its working.
Bsydz I'm not advocating Craig lewis & i haven't seen d DVD so i'm not saying hiphop is evil but most secular music artistes are. Prince  has an 'anch' as his symbol,thats paganism=ungodly=evil.
AND Jesus never man was God not to talk of the blackman who was but in slavery in d bible days.
I know its not hard to drop hiphop cos i'm still battling it myself(like kaydee) so lets encourage eachother to quit it.But i think gospel rap is OK sha.
One.

Sorry,i missed a word.I meant to say 'Jesus never said man WAS God',dont get d bible twisted.
'was' was d missing word.

Hip hop is a culture. It is the dominant youth culture today, whether people like it or not. If you want to reach youth you need missionaries who understand the language and can relate to young people. We are in the world though not of it! Hip hop is not an organized religion. I agree that rap music has been co opted and used to push all kinds of evil values through the manipulation of sounds and images that seem to have brainwashed those who are searching for something real, but a generation has arisen from amidst the darkness to shine a light that cannot be overcome, within the culture. I don't personally subscribe to the phrase Holy Hip Hop but I understand it. The redeemable elements of the culture can be offered up to God and made holy by those who have set themselves apart for His service. This is the truth about hip hop that G Craige Lewis didn't tell y'all! The problem with him is that he mixes in his personal views and opinions and tries to pass on everything as Gospel truth. He also mixes in badly researched information and plays on the prejudice of narrow minded traditionalists, legalists and very religious folk! I also disagree with his calling out other Ministers. It throws everything he says into question. Where is the love? We are to speak the truth in love! He has some truth but being that it is mixed in with wrong motives which at times appear to border on hatred, it almost
neutralizes the truth he does speak! He simply doesn't understand what hip hop is!

peep how I get down!
www.myspace.com/karlnova

and my crew www.myspace.com/gkreality

@karl nova
Yes,u've got logical points & not just blind arguments.I feel u.

thanks Po Deep!!

for more on how people like myself have responded to people like Elder Craige go here: www.clarkyboy.com

also for how we put the music down with skill for real go to my myspace page! www.myspace.com/karlnova

I did a song with a naija feel to it nah mean? peep "How Far?" www.myspace.com/djyemidj

@ Po Deep

Well, I guess if you're mentally week enough to be influenced by messages that aren't even clearly expressed, i.e. BACKWARDS, then maybe you SHOULD drop hip hop. But if you're like most of society, then I think you'll be fine.

Anyway, many so called "Subliminal" messages are meant purely for fun.

And what was that about an ankh being evil? Sounds like someone has issues with cultural differences. I think you need to leave one's personal believes ALONE. Everyones upset about dropping prayer in public schools. STOP trying to stop others from expressing THEIR religious beliefs. Don't be a hypocrite.

What I don't understand is why all of you can't just learn to accept others, live and let live. Think hip hop is evil? DON'T LISTEN TO IT. Stop trying to convince others tho adopt your views. For all those who think GET REAL.

Thank you.

@VFKNGRE
knew u'd diss me.
I like hiphop.
Just dont like suggestive lyrics.
Are u a follower of the ankh?
Didn't u hear how i commended karl nova.He didn't argue.He explained reasonably.
If u read my post well,u'll see that i said "Not hiphop but most secular music artistes".
If this thread annoys u,i suggest u ignore it.

@VFKNGRE
sorry,thats my post(the one above).I used gbade.x's ID by mistake.

Lol, sorry about the mix-up. Po Deep's my younger bro.

I believe all has been said and trashed out like critics with bad movies. I believe the main crux of the matter is this:

Listen to what you want to listen. Learn to sieve what you want to listen. You don't want to listen to the dude with ankh? Fine, then DON'T. Because, no matter how much we rave and rant, that ankh would still be there.

@ Podeep.

I won't take your points one after another, i'll just summarize.

BTNH said dogsinatas, i kept beef with them for 3 GOOD years, then someday i sat down and thought of who Lucifer really was and is. Lucifer was the Archangel, he had a beautiful voice he sang for God. IOW. we can say he is the best Musician and the Origin of music. Music is spiritual, therefore it can always be evil if you want it to be.I didn't say there was nothing wrong with dogsinatas, i said i have nothing against them!

BTNH are heavy smokers of weed, we all know how much they love weed and sing about Mary J. Back to the issue of satan being God, have you ever heard of BTNH say satan is their God? Go get this line or just check my fave of their tracks: Crossroads. They said:

God is whom we praise
Even though the devil's all up in my face
And He keeping me safe . . .

Where they refering to Lucifer? See the lyrics to crossroads.

Maybe i need to reiterate that i'm not perfect but i know my stuffs, at least 90%

As for the bible. Boy, i was born on the pulpit, i was an evangelist, i'm a theologian, and I cannot twist the bible to favour me,though no matter what you do good or bad, you can twist the bible in your favour, even if you decide to kill someone because of their beautiful gfs!

If you have faith as little as mustard seeds, you will say to the mountain, MOVE!-Jesus
Behold I tell you that ye are gods. - Jesus
Jesus held peter, and he walked on water as well. He empowered his followers to heal the sick and raise the dead, he raised them above the level of mediocres. . .
There is a whole lot of difference between god and God and you need to take that serious. What about people who say there is no God? What do you have to say about that? Nas, Pac and Big never said God was inexistent, yet many of these scientists who invented so much strongly believe God does not exist! and pastor Craig uses these machines

See there is no other value of education better than objectivity. Treat everything with an open mind. I accept hip hop is not clean. I do not listen to anyhow music. Even Akon's new album has a track (I want to love you) but whenyou play it, you hear smth else?

By the way, who am I to conclude that BTNH are evil? I've seen luciferous people and they don't hit the top 1000 i know, Naija politicians are way more evil They live in a country with heavy penalty for criminal activities, why are they roaming the streets free? Is it because suge can get Tupac out of jail for $3m dollars?

Guy know what you listen to. There are tracks like "I just want to make love 2 you", "murder", "kill kill kill you", "I just want to f*ck u - no kissin n huggin, u got a husband who loves u. . .". The choice is yours.

@ Po.

Here's the line:

"God bless you working on a plan to Heaven
Follow the Lord all 24/7 days, GOD is who we praise
even though the devil's all up in my face
But he keeping me safe and in my place, say grace
For the case to race with a chance to face the judge"

and this other one from Time After time, one of their latest tracks:

"time after time, find i question my life
how i went wrong will it ever be right?
will i rise? will i fall? stand tall
continue asking, but i'm knowing only God knows

. . .

so now i'm headed to the chapel and i'm fin' to try marriage
it's goin' down yeah, yeah, but what do ya know?
who woulda knew that would make situations worse
and my curse, nothing i've tried seems to work
and i drop to my knees and I pray, yes I pray
and i wonder if i'll ever see a better day (i need a better day)
i've seen much in my time and i think it was too much for my eyes
the wickedness pulling me closer to failure everytime i think i'm rising, yeah
but you live and you learn and try to make better, gotta get control
then follow the Lord and who knows where you'll go, for sho'
i can see how i've been sinnin'
i'm asking the Lord for a little bit of forgiving, giving

"

You must be wondering, is this Gospel Rap? With these I hope u agree with me that BTNH are out of the question, they are not in the legion of snoop, nate dogg and dre

For me I respect people who love the ghetto or who identify with the projects, because i was born there and i still live there and i ain't leaving till i start making babies

@christino
I grab.But them guys are hard to trust.I listen to rap but not them guys.Well,first of all,thread yi ti su mi & 2.Just do what u'r sposed to do & dont stray from d truth.
Like u said,we shud just kno what to listen to n' dts my point.
U dnt have to break ur ipods or stuff lyk dat just do d ryt things at d ryt tym.
Peace.

. . . .Like i once said, that girl that broke her iPod's prolly a retard.

. . . .Like i once said, that girl that broke her iPod's prolly a retard.

That girl is the type that'll hear that Jesus Christ was the Devil's son and then set her bible on fire

Humm, This is serious, This thread is touching, and its not a laughing matter, watch out!!!!!

(Smile) Gbade, I’m offended don’t you know that the best advocate/testimony towards Anti Hip Hop is a former Hip Hop head!
Your right, you don’t have to watch the movie, what the movie is talking about is holiness, which you can get straight out of the bible.
See I don’t want to deter those who want to seek Christ so let me start there:
1) The scripture does say come as you are, keeping in mind that the spirit of God is always seeking you – your free will either choose to obey or disobey
2) As you grow in Christ there is an eternal manifestation, that begins to take shape, there is a renewing of spirit and mind (you no longer see things as a part of life, you see things through the eyes of God) as good or evil, as light or darkness, righteousness/truth or sin, hence when the reference is made that you are a new creature/man/person in Christ.
3) Then you continue to be obedient in that relationship with Christ (don’t have time this round but the relationship with Christ takes on a very important dynamic within itself)
Now back to the topic at hand:
God’s purpose is to bring light to things that have been in darkness. Darkness when used is a rhetorical device is to communicate unmoral or evil. See when we say that something is bad but has a little good, or where good is evil and evil is good it’s humanities way to reject the truth. It’s a tool use by Satan to try and silence God’s truth. John 3:20 For everyone that doeth evil hate light (truth), neither do they come to the light (truth) lest his deeds be discovered. My truth is not based off my educational teachings or my ability to reason but from God I am able to feel secured with the truth which shall set me free. See I can always go back to scripture for clarity that is my measure of truth, not the movie not who I believe is a good rap compared to as a bad rapper my standard measuring stick is God.
Since so many people have posted I am not going to be able to cover everything but there were a few things that stuck out that I would like to deal with.
How Jesus dealt with the masses, very important
1) the spirit of God draws people, they may have been hookers, of tax collectors, or whatever but they were looking for the spirit of God.

2) Also note that Jesus birth is not a story for story sake, it speaks of his need to be born of our father in heaven not a earthly father hence eliminating the fact that he was born through a sin lineage. The manifestation of the cruse was through Adam’s sin.

3) The terminology that we are perfect in Christ, which means because of our acknowledgement of his death and resurrection we are able to ask forgiveness and that sin is no longer a part of us but cast into the sea of forgiveness.

4) As Christians, we declare a boldness to speak to opposition not for opposition to change. So I am not at liberty to keep truth to my self but be a witness of Christ.

Personally I will say there is a transparency as a person living for Christ, that is necessary to have. If I was to speak and say as a Christian how perfect I am, how great everything is all the time that is not scripture. The transparency is the testimony of my life, not rose pedals and rainbows but the realities of being frustrated, my disgusting inability to be patient yadda, yadda, yadda, the transparency is the honesty of my plight and being able to come clean with God and other believers.

Why I choose not to listen to Hip Hop, R n B, and Reggae. It was a very long process, I had 100’s CD’s of original tracks, many mixed CD’s and began downloading tracks off the internet. There wasn’t a beef I wasn’t aware of or a latest release on a diss or come back that I didn’t know word for word. I was very extreme in the culture of music, dabbling in House, Alternative and other stuff that appealed to me. My sister, who was the Christian at the time, invited me out to watch the Craig Lewis movie. At first naturally I got defensive; because one thing I believe was that our music was the outlet and source for Black people’s oppression. There wasn’t a beat or lyric that you couldn’t relate to your own personal struggle or expression to life. Then I began looking into what he was saying though the internet talking to several people about lyrical content and the origins of it. Then I tested my dependence on Music. There is always a process in the midst which you have the free will of choice to determine, was I going to run to God or ignore him as usual and do my own thing. I test out the theory of self control, what was the big deal anyways, I didn’t immediately throw out my CD’s but I tested to see how long I could go with our personally initiating to listen to music. I would say within the week music was going off like crazy in my head without my consent, word for word, beat and all, what triggered it, I couldn’t tell you I could be standing in a line up, lying down whatever. I was getting back into the church anyways, I felt that it was fitting to give up what I held on as dear and true, isn’t that what following Jesus is all about. Well although it is something that I don’t necessarily battle with but realize the great influence it has on people’s life, e.g. relationship’s, personal appearance, consciousness, the influence even of positive choices, that is too much control for anything other than God to have. I was able to sell my CD’s (disobedience on my part because when God says to destroy he means to get rid of it so nobody else can have access)

See the only thing that stands in man’s way of doing evil is his choice, see I expect to be referred to as a bigot, unbending or intolerant because Sin, evil and darkness has been made a reality, and many do not want that responsibility of the choice between heaven or hell.

Oh yes how could I forget, reference to God referring to us as gods, go back to the scripture, Ill make it easy, Ex 22:9, John 10:34 and Psalms 8:2-6.
1) common g in terms of big G (that refelcts in terms of importance)
2) when he refers to Moses he was saying to Moses I will make you greater than Pharaoh so that he will need to believe that Moses God is the one true God
3) God has given us the power and dominion to rule over the earth

Drea

Oh yes how could I forget which was brought up by Gbade, you are right Jesus did not come to condem when he was on the earth but to save, when he returns, that is when he will be coming as a roaring lion of Judah, casting Satan and his amry into the firey pit of Hell. (Sounds interesting dont it, I remember as a child it use to scare the crap out of me) Not meek and mild humble Jesus, He's coming to claim whats his!

There is no grey area to sin, sin is what it is. (the compromise is Jesus) by his blood!


Thanks
Andrea

@ Drea,

I love your posts, agreed Pastor Lewis was passing a huge message across, but please answer this one question:

1. Where are the proceeds from the sales of this documentary going? To the ministry, charity or to someone's pocket?

It is known worldwide that the children of pastors live larger than the royals. In the U.K. the children of Pastor Matt live larger than Prince Williams (go check it out)

A pastor will preach prosperity and the importance of tithe and offering (and the bible so much stresses the importance of that) to an extent that (you all know malachi 3:11 or woteva dontcha?) you'll rob the bank and pay more than your tithe but look at what happens to your tithe? . Even christ the master could not afford a Mule, they had to "rent" him one for his triumphant entry. Paul sailed on ships and died without owning estates, so did all the apostles live a modest life but what do we have today? Pastors live large and get fat and OMG! when are we gonna wake up? We need a revolution . They can't heal the sick, raise the dead or feed the 5,000 yet they have private jets, liners, estates and so on, they are building fortunes here on earth!

He has his target audience and he's getting them.

If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything. That is the truth. In the event of a gold rush, he who sells the digger makes the most profit. The dude's out for profit, just like Hip Hop!

He's saying the truth but he's framing it so much that he meets the needs of people who have their bible but never understood it.

Oh!!! Make una bust this thread,now!!!
Kò'ì sú u yín ni?

@ drea, Christino et al:

In as much as Pastor Craig Lewis has a huge message he passed across and some truth he passed on via that message, there are some things i believe stand out -

* Craig Lewis mixes his personal opinion with his "research".

* He seems to have forgotten that almost every form of music, those that evolved included, had their roots in seculiarism. And the secular artistes saw it fit to express themselves in the only way their mindset was structured - secularity.

As has been said before, music is only a tool. It's just like the human mouth. What comes forth depends on the thought process of an individual. Be a mean mofo, harsh words run out of your lips. People have hurt others severly by the word of their mouth. So does that mean because of this, we should abandon speaking? Or perhaps, saw our lips off? Just in the same manner, the word of mouth has been used to uplift and motivate people. Oration is a tool, the mindset fuels the thinking and what the orator says.

Good examples : Adolf Hitler and Martin Luther King. Jr.

Both were good orators and influenced massive people- heck, a nation. But what makes them different? One was a rascist and monster at heart and used his racial hatred to influence millions of Germans against Jews. We all know the rest of the story. The other used the word of mouth to influence millions to seek an end to the racial segregation as at then. This let to the Civil Rights Movement.

. . .i gotta stop here, but i hope you get my analogy.

Wow, lol so we went from the revelation of truth to the justification of monies to Pastors, if you wanna be exact there are many different verses that deal with offering, tithing and gifts to Pastors. The first place you can start is Paul's letters to the different communities (Corinth, Thessalonica, Galatica, and Philipi) that talk about gifts and offerings. Paul refused to be cared for by certain communities over others not because of personal choice but because he didn’t want the community to buff its chest in praise and adoration of themself for their gift to the ministry and to ensure that they didn’t feel that their gift was a means to influence the ministry.

Is this something that is ignored by the ministry of Christ or not address in the bible nope it is all over in scripture of the humility of leaders and the great responsibility that is on them. If it is something you feel spiritual compelled to deal with then you need to have a conversation with God.

Keep in mind that biases is a make up that is a part of anyone, how were your biases communicate through your views on this post? It goes back to show the infallibility of a man, how imperfect we are and in need of Jesus, because where biases are apparent that is where scripture takes over.
• He seems to have forgotten that almost every form of music, those that evolved included, had their roots in seculiarism. And the secular artistes saw it fit to express themselves in the only way their mindset was structured - secularity.
Thank you – their mindset was and is secularism and everything attached to that world***
Our words and what we say is a powerful member of our body because what we say becomes life/ a reality:

Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin…(Ecc 5:6)
James 3:5-18 Even so the tongue is a little member and boast great things. Behold how great a matter a little fire kindleth and it continues v.10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and curse…these things ought not to be

So no I am not expecting you to cut off your tongue if you have harsh words, that’s old testament styles, but what I expect you to do is recognize and use the bible as the true measure, what does it say you will know them by their fruits.

Andrea