bukatyne:


Ever heard of mommy guilt?

Or the conservative West's interpretation of Titus 2:3?

According to a research, Scandinavian women work less hours and less stressful jobs despite living in the most 'equal' society.

Their housewifery is not like ours. They volunteer for all sorts and revolve their lives around their children.

Alimony.

Swedish women?

Plead:


You might have used the term at one point or the other . Not saying you have used it

I’ve seen a lot of women calling themselves “independent woman” on social media (mostly Instagram ,Twitter and here on nairaland ) that’s why I said I’m sure you must have also used the term at one point?

Crackhaus was talking about financial independence in marriage and not the kind of independence you were deviating to.

@last paragraph: I gathered that from his last post.

@ 1st and 2nd: I agree a lot of people throw a lot of labels around. I have never used 'independent' woman, boss lady, real man, ideal man etc.

I have however labeled myself a feminist, Christian, Yoruba etc.

This post does not answer why you mentioned postmann.

crackhaus:

Don't join in this gross misinformation which has become an anthem on the pages of the internet. It is a lie.

In the days of our grandparents and great-grandparents, women worked. There are more housewives today than it was in those days.
Farming was the major source of livelihood and who do you think did the harvesting and selling of farm produce in the markets? Women.
Most times it was even across villages miles apart, these women did those things and still handled chores in the home front when they got back.
The men only cultivated the lands and planted, lands which were usually in their backyards.

It wasn't until the missionaries and colonial masters began introducing menial/manual jobs in the form of factories, railway building, construction, etc that men began leaving home to work for salaries.

Don't take my word for it, ask about your ancestral history and confirm this. I know things about my great-grandparents and great-great-grandparents from stories that were passed down. There was NEVER anything like a housewife in those days.

Was this obtainable for Igbo society?

crackhaus:

We are talking about financial independence in a marriage setting NOT in the true sense of independence.
Where are you going with the deflections?

Ok.

Let's stick to financially then.

crackhaus:

Don't join in this gross misinformation which has become an anthem on the pages of the internet. It is a lie.

In the days of our grandparents and great-grandparents, women worked. There are more housewives today than it was in those days.
Farming was the major source of livelihood and who do you think did the harvesting and selling of farm produce in the markets? Women.
Most times it was even across villages miles apart, these women did those things and still handled chores in the home front when they got back.
The men only cultivated the lands and planted, lands which were usually in their backyards.

It wasn't until the missionaries and colonial masters began introducing menial/manual jobs in the form of factories, railway building, construction, etc that men began leaving home to work for salaries.

Don't take my word for it, ask about your ancestral history and confirm this. I know things about my great-grandparents and great-great-grandparents from stories that were passed down. There was NEVER anything like a housewife in those days.

Do you believe this?

Plead:


Why are some women always calling themselves independent “woman” then?

I’m sure you yourself must have at one point or the other tagged yourself an “independent lady”

Formally and rationally, there's nothing like independent woman (man) anywhere - human beings will always remain interdependent on each other - one is either independent-minded/strong-minded or expedient or headstrong. So, when some people throw around the "independent woman" cliche, they mean they're economically emancipated.

One can be economically emancipated without being independent-minded (and vice versa) - it's a case of materialism vs immaterialism respectively. Independent-mindedness is the major hallmark of a principled/spiritual person. However, there's a thin line between it and expediency; for example, both expedient woman (person) and independent-minded woman are usually vocal, but you'll always know the expedient woman for her hypocritical disingenuousness.

Plead:


Do you believe this?

Like i said, don't take my word for it. Find out.

bukatyne:


Was this obtainable for Igbo society?

Was there ever a time that farming was the prevalent source of livelihood in Igbo society? If yes, then it was obtainable.

crackhaus:

Was there ever a time that farming was the prevalent source of livelihood in Igbo society? If yes, then it was obtainable.

When we talk housewifery in Nigeria, Igbos are the poster child hence my question.

bukatyne:


Ever heard of mommy guilt?

Or the conservative West's interpretation of Titus 2:3?

According to a research, Scandinavian women work less hours and less stressful jobs despite living in the most 'equal' society.

Their housewifery is not like ours. They volunteer for all sorts and revolve their lives around their children.

Alimony.

Less hours and less stressful jobs does not make one a housewife, but I get where you're going.

crackhaus:

Less hours and less stressful jobs does not make one a housewife , but I get where you're going.

@bold:

Tell me something

LordKO:



Formally and rationally, there's nothing like independent woman (man) anywhere - human beings will always remain interdependent on each other - one is either independent-minded/strong-minded or expedient or headstrong. So, when some people throw around the "independent woman" cliche, they mean they're economically emancipated.

One can be economically emancipated without being independent-minded (and vice versa) - it's a case of materialism vs immaterialism respectively. Independent-mindedness is the major hallmark of a principled/spiritual person. However, there's a thin line between it and expediency; for example, both expedient woman (person) and independent-minded woman are usually vocal, but you'll always know the expedient woman for her hypocritical disingenuousness.

I agree with you.

Plead:


She’s somehow right sha ... in the west , if a couple should divorce and one is jobless (during the time of the divorce ) the one that is working will be required to settle the non-working ex so that the ex can find her/his feet until he/she gets a job.

Alimony also comes into the equation... the richer spouse pays money to the lesser earning spouse during divorce (if the other person request for it....men hardly request for alimony if they’re the ones earning less,it’s mostly women who request for it)

You realize that alimony is only given to non-earning women who by some reason decide to be stay-at-home wives by joint decision between them and their husbands right?

The alimony given to lesser earning spouses is not what Buka was referring to. However, this one is even rare especially when there are no children from the marriage... and in situations where it is given, it is usually for a specified period NOT a lifetime.

I get your point anyway

Plead:


Meaning men who insist that they’ll give their wives upkeep and also responsible for 100% of spendings shouldn’t allow their wives to work.... in the days of old , only men work (traditional settings ) so if you want to continue claiming traditional then don’t allow your wife work since you’re stressing her

100%. Many men can barely have savings while their wives build houses in secret. Is that no madness

LordKO:



Formally and rationally, there's nothing like independent woman (man) anywhere - human beings will always remain interdependent on each other - one is either independent-minded/strong-minded or expedient or headstrong. So, when some people throw around the "independent woman" cliche, they mean they're economically emancipated.

One can be economically emancipated without being independent-minded (and vice versa) - it's a case of materialism vs immaterialism respectively. Independent-mindedness is the major hallmark of a principled/spiritual person. However, there's a thin line between it and expediency; for example, both expedient woman (person) and independent-minded woman are usually vocal, but you'll always know the expedient woman for her hypocritical disingenuousness.

She was talking about financial independence in marriage not independence in life .... most of those women using the term “independent woman” are mostly using it to showcase a life of financial independence (meaning they don’t depend on anybody/man for their funds)

bukatyne:


When we talk housewifery in Nigeria, Igbos are the poster child hence my question.

Lol.

You'll have to dig farther into the times when farming was their major occupation to confirm or refute your bias.

bukatyne:


@bold:

Tell me something

Tell you what na?

So a housewife is now also that woman who is employed in a less stressful job and works less time?

Plead:



She was talking about financial independence in marriage not independence in life .... most of those women using the term “independent woman” are mostly using it to showcase a life of financial independence (meaning they don’t depend on anybody/man for their funds)

E bi like say u don dey get comprehension issue ni, lol. Na de same tin we de talk.

AwkaetitiBabe:
Being independent does not mean they won't enjoy their husband's financial capabilities.

Kai.

LordKO:



E bi like say u don dey get comprehension issue ni, lol. Na de same tin we de talk.

If we are saying the same thing then you’re wrong . People who are truly financially independent are abound.

Plead:


Why are some women always calling themselves independent “woman” then?

I’m sure you yourself must have at one point or the other tagged yourself an “independent lady”


Cc crackhaus postmann

Clout, nothing else.

They don't know the meaning, one example is Awkaetitibabe above.

Never do we hear of "independent man".

ednut1:
no. Its nonsense. There are times a man may not be able to provide and the woman becomes the breadwinner. But if u have created the mindset of upkeep. She may have 3m in savings while u have to borrow 450k from friends to pay rent. For those saying men provide traditionally. In a trad setting women dont work.

Is traditional setting what our forefathers practiced?

If yes, then I don't really understand cos no woman from my background has ever been a house wife. They were always on the move.

@topic, men give because it's a thing of pride as the ascribed head of the house and provider. It soothes the ego and makes them happy so why not indulge them, then look for way to balance it without robbing it on his face.

Plead:


If we are saying the same thing then you’re wrong . People who are truly financially independent are abound.

Volatility of money/material thing makes it an aberration for anyone to claim financial independence - so, financial independence is a cliche. Tell me that financially emancipated people abound and I will agree with you wholeheartedly.

crackhaus:

Lol.

You'll have to dig farther into the times when farming was their major occupation to confirm or refute your bias.

I am serious.

I grew up in an all Igbo community (we were just two Yoruba on a very long street) so I have first hand experience on some of their way of life.

We've had a similar discussion where I told you that housewifery or a man fully responsible for home financially is not a Yoruba thing.

In fact, an housewife or financially non-contributing wife is called alabodo (someone you feed to fvck). To not say that there are no outliners.

Igbos however pride themselves in fully financing the home (I see this even in my colleagues with working wives). Growing up, most of the Igbo wives literally did not leave the house except to market or parties while you saw the husbands hustling (legit and non). The downside was that the men's words were law and upon the breakdown of the marriage, the wives did not leave with a pin so the marriage must not break.

Comparing this to pre-colonial times when everyone farmed, where was the cultural shift for them?

Igbos can also pitch in.

sassysure:


Is traditional setting what our forefathers practiced?

If yes, then I don't really understand cos no woman from my background has ever been a house wife. They were always on the move.

@topic, men give because it's a thing of pride as the ascribed head of the house and provider. It soothes the ego and makes them happy so why not indulge them, then look for way to balance it without robbing it on his face.

Lie small small .

PrimadonnaO:


You don’t even have shame.

If you can't do that, then choose your partner carefully , some men can kill you if you don't submit it , or it leads to divorce. And you might want to stay away from igbo guys .

Providing for their family is a thing of pride , but if they lose their means of livelihood for a while. Then you must submit yours to them , good thing is that they mostly hand it back to you.

bukatyne:


I am serious.

I grew up in an all Igbo community (we were just two Yoruba on a very long street) so I have first hand experience on some of their way of life.

We've had a similar discussion where I told you that housewifery or a man fully responsible for home financially is not a Yoruba thing.

In fact, an housewife or financially non-contributing wife is called alabodo (someone you feed to fvck). To not say that there are no outliners.

Igbos however pride themselves in fully financing the home (I see this even in my colleagues with working wives). Growing up, most of the Igbo wives literally did not leave the house except to market or parties while you saw the husbands hustling (legit and non). The downside was that the men's words were law and upon the breakdown of the marriage, the wives did not leave with a pin so the marriage must not break.

Comparing this to pre-colonial times when everyone farmed, where was the cultural shift for them?

Igbos can also pitch in.

As for Igbo women not leaving marriage,you’re correct. Irrespective of what happens they hardly leave , you’ll be the one to runaway from them or else no amount of assault or embarrassment will make them leave their marriage

crackhaus:

Tell you what na?

So a housewife is now also that woman who is employed in a less stressful job and works less time?

You clearly understood that post.

bukatyne:


I am serious.

I grew up in an all Igbo community (we were just two Yoruba on a very long street) so I have first hand experience on some of their way of life.

We've had a similar discussion where I told you that housewifery or a man fully responsible for home financially is not a Yoruba thing.

In fact, an housewife or financially non-contributing wife is called alabodo (someone you feed to fvck). To not say that there are no outliners.

Igbos however pride themselves in fully financing the home (I see this even in my colleagues with working wives). Growing up, most of the Igbo wives literally did not leave the house except to market or parties while you saw the husbands hustling (legit and non). The downside was that the men's words were law and upon the breakdown of the marriage, the wives did not leave with a pin so the marriage must not break.

Comparing this to pre-colonial times when everyone farmed, where was the cultural shift for them?

Igbos can also pitch in.

My submission on the idea of housewives being relatively a new invention, is based off the pre-colonial period.

By the time salaried jobs became the source of income in families, men are the ones who got most of the jobs particularly due to physical strength.
It's the same reason men were educated more than women - the time and concentration it took to earn a degree would have made women ditch the markets which was the only way farm produce could be turned into cash. It made sense for the males to go to school while females continued in the farms and selling what they harvest.

bukatyne:


You clearly understood that post.

I understood it, does not mean you are right.

Are you about to create another dictionary definition of 'Housewife'?

crackhaus:

My submission on the idea of housewives being relatively a new invention, is based off the pre-colonial period.

By the time salaried jobs became the source of income in families, men are the ones who got most of the jobs particularly due to physical strength.
It's the same reason men were educated more than women - the time and concentration it took to earn a degree would have made women ditch the markets which was the only way farm produce could be turned into cash. It made sense for the males to go to school while females continued in the farms and selling what they harvest.

Ok

crackhaus:

I understood it, does not mean you are right.

Are you about to create another dictionary definition of 'Housewife'?

I introduced that to buttress my point.

I see you are just winding me.