“Come now, let us reason together, says the Lord…” (Isaiah 1:18). God has bestowed in us the ability to reason because he wants us to use it. Religion however tells us to accept whatever is handed down to us from the pulpit as doubting or asking questions attract curses.
The early Roman Catholic Church kept the bible away from the laity. They dreaded the thought of people finding out the truth about the nature of God and whoever was found in possession of the bible was burned at the stake. The Protestants broke away and the church underwent reformation, but the foundation on which it was established still stood, the false; doctrine of the trinity, and the Protestants carries it along with them. I find it amusing that non-Catholics condemn Raman Catholics for worshiping Mary. If Jesus is God, then Mary is the mother of God and hence has is qualified for worship. So I think.
Now the question is if Jesus, God, the early church or the scriptures made any assertion that Jesus was God. I make bold to say the answer is NO. The following are few among many scripture that shows the distinction between Christ and God.
Exodus 33:20 “And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.” (Many saw Jesus’ face and lived; therefore, how could Jesus be God?) Compare John 5:36.
Isaiah 42:8 “I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.” (God does not give His glory to another. In contrast, Jesus invites the saints to share his glory as a bride.) See Romans 6:3-6; 8:17, 18;
Col. 3:4; 1 John 3:2.
Matt. 4:1 “Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.” (James 1:13 states “God cannot be tempted!”)
Matt. 10:40 “He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.” (Jeus didn’t come on his own, he was sent by God)
Matt. 20:23 “And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup . . . but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.” (Jesus lacked authority in this matter. His authority is limited )
Matt. 24:36 “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” (This demonstrates that God and Jesus are not equal in knowledge!)
Matt. 26:39 “And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.” (This verse implies Jesus had one will and his Father had another. Two different wills imply two different beings!) See also Matt. 26:42; John 5:19-22.
Matt. 27:46 “Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, La-ma sa-bach-tha-ni? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” ( If Jesus were God . . . had he forsaken himself? Is this logical? Clearly, Jesus was speaking to another being, his Father.)
Matt. 28:18 “And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” (Jesus was given power not previously possessed.)
Mark 1:24 “What have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.” (The unclean spirit knew Jesus was not God but rather the Holy One of God.)
Mark 10:18 “And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is “God.” (Jesus here refuses to be considered coequal with God.)
John 5:30 “I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will ofthe Father which hath sent me.” (Jesus was seeking another being’s will—not his own!)
John 6:38 “For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.” (Two wills—two beings.)
John 7:16-18 “My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.”
Rom. 8:17 “And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ.” (Could Christ be his own heir? How, then, could we be joint-heirs with him?).
The verdict of this is crystal clear, but we are in the age where people interpret scriptures to suit them. Trinitarians have consistently failed to merge Jesus and God as one being. I remember the first explanation I got of the trinity when I was about 9. We were told God came down from heaven in form of man. What that meant to me was that when Jesus was on earth, there was no God in heaven. But I was always thought in Sunday school of how Jesus always prayed to his father in heaven, In fact, I was demonstrated how Jesus raised his hands to heaven and prayed for multiplicity when he fed five thousand. It is difficult to understand how people disregard glaring truth in embrace of doctrines they can’t defend. They always justify their inability to explain the trinity by ending their arguments with “It is a mystery, no one can understand it”. Yes, God is a mystery but the trinity isn’t. A mystery can be defined as a religious belief based on divine revelation, especially one regarded and being beyond human understanding. The trinity wasn’t revealed to anyone, it was a theory forged by a group of people. There is nothing mysterious about it. It is incomprehensible because it is false!
Jesus and God are not the same people and neither is the Holy Spirit a different entity. Trying to give them equality justifies what critics say about Christians. They worship 3 gods. This was the reason why Christianity lost the Middle East where it was birthed. The Arabs refused to “just agree” with them on their concept of God.
Our God is one, Jesus Christ our lord and savior is his son. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of God.
May the Lord bless you, may he keep you, may he cause his face to shine upon you and be gracious unto you in Jesus name. Amen.

cc. OAM4J
Read the first part here at https://www.nairaland.com/5504482/doctrine-trinity-true-false#83646544

So what about the passage that says though he was God yet he counted not equality with God....op, what existed in the beginning if not God. Yet in the beginning was the word And the word was with God and the word was Good. And the Word took flesh and dwelt among us men. Not one thing came to existence but by the word.
Why was Jesus killed by the Jews, because he claimed to be God. By being the son of God and referring to God as his father, the Jews saw him as claiming equality with God. Also read the Revelations... I am the alpha and the Omega the first and last. If not God ,who then is the first and last. The disciples asked him to show the the father and he replied so you have been with me all this while and you do not know me.

njelrapheal:
So what about the passage that says though he was God yet he counted not equality with God....op, what existed in the beginning if not God. Yet in the beginning was the word And the word was with God and the word was Good. And the Word took flesh and dwelt among us men. Not one thing came to existence but by the word.
Why was Jesus killed by the Jews, because he claimed to be God. By being the son of God and referring to God as his father, the Jews saw him as claiming equality with God. Also read the Revelations... I am the alpha and the Omega the first and last. If not God ,who then is the first and last. The disciples asked him to show the the father and he replied so you have been with me all this while and you do not know me.

No passage in the bible said Jesus was God, Jesus himself never said he was God. Phil. 2:6 only buttresses the fact that Jesus knew his place. Being like God, or being the son of God is not the same thing as being God. You should know this because you have a father. Read the first part of this message for other clarifications please.

BafanaBafana:

No passage in the bible said Jesus was God, Jesus himself never said he was God. Phil. 2:6 only buttresses the fact that Jesus knew his place. Being like God, or being the son of God is not the same thing as being God. You should know this because you have a father. Read the first part of this message for other clarifications please.

. Philistines 2:6, or there about. Read again how the word was God and how the word took flesh and dwelt among then u would know that every passage of the Bible talks about how Jesus is God. Even David filled with the spirit on Psalms said, the lord said to my Lord, sit at my right till I put all your enemies under you.being like your father being a man makes you also a man. So as God the Father is God. So also is Jesus whom he begot before time began. This is also to say they have one and the same nature. Now remember only God has the power to forgive sins. But Jesus himself also had the power , that is because he is God.

njelrapheal:
. Philistines 2:6, or there about. Read again how the word was God and how the word took flesh and dwelt among then u would know that every passage of the Bible talks about how Jesus is God. Even David filled with the spirit on Psalms said, the lord said to my Lord, sit at my right till I put all your enemies under you.being like your father being a man makes you also a man. So as God the Father is God. So also is Jesus whom he begot before time began. This is also to say they have one and the same nature. Now remember only God has the power to forgive sins. But Jesus himself also had the power , that is because he is God.

ok

We are in the age where people don't believe waht the bible says but what their pastor says. Too bad

jesus as a human being is God because unlike us his subconscious was fully God.
Holy Spirit became his very spirit, the way God intended it to be for Adam, so that Adam could rule the world as his vessel on earth, to keep the garden and dress it( that is to say rule the animals , land, and sea) because you have a soul which comes directly from my spirit.
Jesus is God, because he was not seperate from his spirit which is the spirit of God.
The Word became flesh simply means the Wisdom and Principles of God( Self Sacrificial Love) was manifested to us in Jesus to show us the way to God, or in other words to help us see God with our hearts.

There is no need for a trinity debate, only a pure heart that can see God.

Have l been so long with you Philip and you don't know me? whosoever has seen me, has seen the father.

Seeing God is not with the physical eyes but with a pure heart, because God is a spirit and has no form for us to see.

Daejoyoung:
jesus as a human being is God because unlike us his subconscious was fully God.
Holy Spirit became his very spirit, the way God intended it to be for Adam, so that Adam could rule the world as his vessel on earth, to keep the garden and dress it( that is to say rule the animals , land, and sea) because you have a soul which comes directly from my spirit.
Jesus is God, because he was not seperate from his spirit which is the spirit of God.
The Word became flesh simply means the Wisdom and Principles of God( Self Sacrificial Love) was manifested to us in Jesus to show us the way to God, or in other words to help us see God with our hearts.

There is no need for a trinity debate, only a pure heart that can see God.

Have l been so long with you Philip and you don't know me? whosoever has seen me, has seen the father.

Seeing God is not with the physical eyes but with a pure heart, because God is a spirit and has no form for us to see.

But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."
Exodus 33:20
God was talking about seeing his face physically here.
And I will like you to explain if Jesus is a different God from the father, and if they are the same then why the difference in will, authority and power and purpose.

BafanaBafana:

But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."
Exodus 33:20
God was talking about seeing his face physically here.
And I will like you to explain if Jesus is a different God from the father, and if they are the same then why the difference in will, authority and power and purpose.

God does not have a physical face for you to see with your eyes, you can only see God with the eyes of your spirit either once you are dead or with your heart when you are alive( but dimly).
Your pure heart that knows self sacrificial love as reflected through jesus, already sees God dimly though not totally because it's still housed in the flesh.
Do you think God's face is physical?

Daejoyoung:

God does not have a physical face for you to see with your eyes, you can only see God with the eyes of your spirit either once you are dead or with your heart when you are alive( but dimly).
Your pure heart that knows self sacrificial love as reflected through jesus, already sees God dimly though not totally because it's still housed in the flesh.
Do you think God's face is physical?

Funny

Daejoyoung:
jesus as a human being is God because unlike us his subconscious was fully God.



Have l been so long with you Philip and you don't know me? whosoever has seen me, has seen the father.

Seeing God is not with the physical eyes but with a pure heart, because God is a spirit and has no form for us to see.

"God wey no know wetin him Father know . Matt 24:36.

* Is Jesus Christ his Father ?
You belong to Christ,in turn,Christ belongs to God . 1 Cor 3:23. Compare Matt10:40. John 7:16.
When you receive the Messenger, (Jesus) you have seen the One (Yahweh) who sent him forth.
That's what Jesus is telling you in John14:1,7-8.

Daejoyoung:

God does not have a physical face for you to see with your eyes, you can only see God with the eyes of your spirit either once you are dead or with your heart when you are alive( but dimly).
Your pure heart that knows self sacrificial love as reflected through jesus, already sees God dimly though not totally because it's still housed in the flesh.
Do you think God's face is physical?

Can you back up your claims with scriptures please? Seeing God dimly, etc
Plus you didn't answer my question

Janosky:


"God wey no know wetin him Father know . Matt 24:36.

* Is Jesus Christ his Father ?
You belong to Christ,in turn,Christ belongs to God . 1 Cor 3:23. Compare Matt10:40. John 7:16.
When you receive the Messenger, (Jesus) you have seen the One (Yahweh) who sent him forth.
That's what Jesus is telling you in John14:1,7-8.

jesus christ is not his father but the father is reflected in jesus, there is no need for confusion.
The father cannot be easily understood or seen but in jesus, his fullness is reflected bodily.
ln that sense alone, jesus is God. This is why in Mark 1, mark takes a quote about God coming to his temple and john the Baptist preparing the way for him, and applies it directly to jesus as the God visiting his temple. This is because God lives in jesus doing what he wants to do more freely than ever.
For thesame reason Matthew calls jesus Emmanuel ( God with us). No prophet was ever called God with us. lt is important to distinguish between christ and the prophets and to know who christ is in order to understand God better.
Christ is not like any prophet, and no prophet was ever called Emmanuel, or the word, or one greater than the temple.

BafanaBafana:

But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."
Exodus 33:20
God was talking about seeing his face physically here.
And I will like you to explain if Jesus is a different God from the father, and if they are the same then why the difference in will, authority and power and purpose.

The father is not a human being or one that can be easily grasped by humans so obviously jesus is different from the father, but then the father means the source of all, and the God above us.
But thesame father has successfully dwelt in his creation(earth) in two different ways.
He was revealed in jesus (coming of the kingdom of God) as God with us, and he dwells in humans as God in us.
ln the age to come( which is to say the end of the world), the father would become known more fully to us, because just like jesus we would become like God ourselves and also having God dwelling fully in us.
Jesus is the prime example of what we would be in the age to come, an age where we would have power over death, sickness, and sufferings. Then we would operate more fully as the body of christ (the body of God). We would be working fully in love knitted together and united in our knowledge and understanding of God.
But now we see dimly as in a glass, we know in part and we prophesy in part ( 1 Corinthians 13).

BafanaBafana:

Can you back up your claims with scriptures please? Seeing God dimly, etc
Plus you didn't answer my question

Now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now l know in part, but then l shall know just as l also am known. And now abide faith, hope and love, but the greatest of these is love.
1 Corinthians 13v12-13.

No one has seen God at anytime. lf we love one another God abides in us and his love has been perfected in us.
1 john 4v12

No one has seen God at anytime, the only begotten son who is in the bosom of the father he has declared him.
John 1v18.

Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God.
Matthew 5v8

How can you say show us the father, he who hath seen me hath seen the father.
john 14

Seeing God can only be with the eyes of your heart.
The father the disciples were looking for, was in jesus and not far away, all they had to do was see jesus better or in other words know jesus better to know the father.
Knowing is thesame as seeing with your heart or the eyes of your soul.

Daejoyoung:

Now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now l know in part, but then l shall know just as l also am known. And now abide faith, hope and love, but the greatest of these is love.
1 Corinthians 13v12-13.

No one has seen God at anytime. lf we love one another God abides in us and his love has been perfected in us.
1 john 4v12

No one has seen God at anytime, the only begotten son who is in the bosom of the father he has declared him.
John 1v18.

Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God.
Matthew 5v8

How can you say show us the father, he who hath seen me hath seen the father.
john 14

Seeing God can only be with the eyes of your heart.
The father the disciples were looking for, was in jesus and not far away, all they had to do was see jesus better or in other words know jesus better to know the father.
Knowing is thesame as seeing with your heart or the eyes of your soul.

Bros you have not said anything

BafanaBafana:

Bros you have not said anything

ok, l don't get what else you want me to say. You said l should provide scriptures to back up my claims about seeing dimly and l did.

Daejoyoung:

jesus christ is not his father but the father is reflected in jesus, there is no need for confusion.
The father cannot be easily understood or seen but in jesus, his fullness is reflected bodily.
ln that sense alone, jesus is God. This is why in Mark 1, mark takes a quote about God coming to his temple and john the Baptist preparing the way for him, and applies it directly to jesus as the God visiting his temple. This is because God lives in jesus doing what he wants to do more freely than ever.
For thesame reason Matthew calls jesus Emmanuel ( God with us). No prophet was ever called God with us. lt is important to distinguish between christ and the prophets and to know who christ is in order to understand God better.
Christ is not like any prophet, and no prophet was ever called Emmanuel, or the word, or one greater than the temple.

In which sense ?
Your claims seems to say that any person who reflects & copies Messi skill for skill,is definitely Messi.
When you reflect your Father (his spitting image) are you still your Father?

Elihu means "God is He", that man na Baba God?

Janosky:

In which sense ?
Your claims seems to say that any person who reflects & copies Messi skill for skill,is definitely Messi.
When you reflect your Father (his spitting image) are you still your Father?

Elihu means "God is He", that man na Baba God?

We are almost saying thesame thing my man, the trinity is just a concept, it makes sense as a concept and not in a literal form.

Janosky:

In which sense ?
Your claims seems to say that any person who reflects & copies Messi skill for skill,is definitely Messi.
When you reflect your Father (his spitting image) are you still your Father?

Elihu means "God is He", that man na Baba God?

Except that God cannot be quantified in a box like Messi( a restricted single human being).
l am only going with what l see as the new testament understanding of jesus and all new testament writers seem to believe that in jesus the God of lsrael has come down. Take for instance, Mark 1v3, mark applies a quote meant for God directly to jesus. He does this not because he thinks jesus is God in a literal sense but that God is fully in jesus in a literal sense. l hope you get the difference?
The trinity as a concept is simply:
1) The God above us ( The Father and Source )
2) The God with us( The Son or true revealer of the father).
3) The God in us( The Father waiting to be manifested through everyone of us).

Janosky:

In which sense ?
Your claims seems to say that any person who reflects & copies Messi skill for skill,is definitely Messi.
When you reflect your Father (his spitting image) are you still your Father?

Elihu means "God is He", that man na Baba God?

Note that unlike Messi, the attributes of God are all part of God and cannot be separated from God. For instance God is Love and Love finds its source in God, God did not create love, rather love exists because God exists.
For example even when messi was not good at taking free kicks, messi was still messi.
But God has always been love in its fullness, and did not develop on his attributes because their objective existence is rooted in what makes God God.

Jesus' Soul, was a Piece of God.

So am I.

I am that, I am.

I am, that I am,

I am

Vortex369:
Jesus' Soul, was a Piece of God.

So am I.

I am that, I am.

I am, that I am,

I am

You are in the spirit. For flesh and blood has not revealed this unto you but our father in heaven.

Daejoyoung:

You are in the spirit. For flesh and blood has not revealed this unto you but our father in heaven.

I am not 'in' Spirit, I am Spirit, living in a biochemical archetype body designed to survive the magneto-electic field of Earth. The Earth body suit is my temporal spacesuit, for now. I am not my body, and my body is not me. My body is just a spacesuit for Mission Earth.

I just am.

Daejoyoung:

Except that God cannot be quantified in a box like Messi( a restricted single human being).
l am only going with what l see as the new testament understanding of jesus and all new testament writers seem to believe that in jesus the God of lsrael has come down. Take for instance, Mark 1v3, mark applies a quote meant for God directly to jesus. He does this not because he thinks jesus is God in a literal sense but that God is fully in jesus in a literal sense. l hope you get the difference?
The trinity as a concept is simply:
1) The God above us ( The Father and Source )
2) The God with us( The Son or true revealer of the father).
3) The God in us( The Father waiting to be manifested through everyone of us).

You mean Jesus disciples, his Father and Jesus are in the Trinity, bah ?

Daejoyoung:

Except that God cannot be quantified in a box like Messi( a restricted single human being).
l am only going with what l see as the new testament understanding of jesus and all new testament writers seem to believe that in jesus the God of lsrael has come down. Take for instance, Mark 1v3, mark applies a quote meant for God directly to jesus. He does this not because he thinks jesus is God in a literal sense but that God is fully in jesus in a literal sense. l hope you get the difference?
The trinity as a concept is simply:
1) The God above us ( The Father and Source )
2) The God with us( The Son or true revealer of the father).
3) The God in us( The Father waiting to be manifested through everyone of us).

You mean his Father ,his disciples and Jesus are one, so they are in the Trinity, bah ?

Vortex369:
Jesus' Soul, was a Piece of God.

So am I.

I am that, I am.

I am, that I am,

I am

My soul is also a piece of God. That doesn't mean I am God.

BafanaBafana:

My soul is also a piece of God. That doesn't mean I am God.

You are god.

God's robot.

Mark 10:18 “And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is “God.” (Jesus here refuses to be considered coequal with God.)
John 5:30 “I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will ofthe Father which hath sent me.” (Jesus was seeking another being’s will—not his own!)
John 6:38 “For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.” (Two wills—two beings.)
John 7:16-18 “My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.”

BafanaBafana:
Mark 10:18 “And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is “God.” (Jesus here refuses to be considered coequal with God.)
John 5:30 “I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will ofthe Father which hath sent me.” (Jesus was seeking another being’s will—not his own!)
John 6:38 “For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.” (Two wills—two beings.)
John 7:16-18 “My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.”

Jesus was not God, his spirit was a spark of Divinity, just as yours is.

Jesus knew, but you are yet to realize.

Vortex369:


Jesus was not God, his spirit was a spark of Divinity, just as yours is.

Jesus knew, but you are yet to realize.

when I say God, with the with the uppercase G, I am talking about Jehovah.
Understand the difference please.
And I don't think anyone is in doubt of the divinity of Christ. Even unbelievers know

BafanaBafana:

when I say God, with the with the uppercase G, I am talking about Jehovah.
Understand the difference please.
And I don't think anyone is in doubt of the divinity of Christ. Even unbelievers know

Jehovah is a god, not God.

Jehovah is one of the Rulers of one of the cities at Astral Plane of Existence,