Introduction

Several verses of the Qur'an state that previous prophets and religious texts foretold the coming of the Prophet Muhammad. Verse 157 of Chapter 7 states: "Those who follow the Messenger, the unschooled one, who has been described in the Torah and Gospel with them…"

This verse clearly states that the Prophet Muhammad has been foretold even in the distorted versions of the Torah and Gospel among the Jews and Christians. It is not referring to the original Torah which was revealed to Moses or the original Gospel which was revealed to Jesus. These two do not exist any longer except with Imam Mahdi (may Allah hasten his reappearance). It is referring to the Bible that existed during the time of the Qur'an's revelation and that which also exists with us today.

From among all the Biblical verses that speak about the coming of the Prophet, we will discuss two verses, one from the Old Testament and one from the New Testament.

Verse Number 1: Deuteronomy 18:18
"I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I command him."

Whom is this verse talking about? The Christians claim that this verse is speaking about Jesus. The Muslims claim that it is talking about Muhammad. We will present our arguments and the world can judge.

"Their brethren"
First, if it was talking about Jesus, it would say "I will raise them up a prophet from among themselves," not "from among their brethren." The Israelites are the children of Jacob, who is also known as Israel. He is the son of Isaac, son of Abraham. Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac. Jacob's children are known as the Israelites. And the children of Ishmael are known as the Arabs. In this sense, the Arabs and Israelites are brethren.

Certainly, brethren can include the brothers among the Israelites; however, the verse is addressing Moses, an Israelite. And Moses is addressing his people. Therefore, why doesn't it say "from among them" or "your brethren" (i.e. the Israelites) but rather "from among their brethren"? This indicates two wholes: one whole the Israelites and another whole their brethren (i.e. the Ishmaelites).

"Like unto thee"
The next part of the verse states that this prophet is like Moses. We have to study the major similarities between Moses and Jesus and Moses and Muhammad to see who it suits more. Of course, we can mention universal similarities which all human beings have, such as eating, sleeping, becoming ill, or minor similarities. However, such a comparison will not benefit anyone and is illogical.

Moses and Jesus
1.Christians believe that Jesus is God and the Son of God. This is a fundamental principle in Trinitarian Christianity. If one does not believe in this, he is not a Christian. But Christians do not say that Moses is God or the Son of God. Therefore, this is a major difference between Moses and Jesus. If Christians say that Jesus is not God or the Son of God, or that Moses is also God and the Son of God, then their entire belief system will be turned upside down.
2.Christians believe that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of humanity. But they do not believe that about Moses. This belief is a core requirement of Christianity. If one does not believe in it, he will not be saved and is not considered a Christian. This is another major difference between Jesus and Moses. Either the Christians will have to deny what they believe about Jesus or believe the same thing for Moses, both of which puts the very foundation of their religion in question.
3.Christians believe that Jesus was miraculously born from only a human mother and Moses had a natural birth from human parents. This is another major difference. Certainly, there are many other major differences between Moses and Jesus which clearly show that Deuteronomy 18:18 is not talking about the coming of Jesus but someone else. Nevertheless, the above examples should suffice anyone who approaches this subject with an open mind.
Moses and Muhammad
1.Both Moses and Muhammad were married and had children. Jesus never married and did not have any children. Muslims, Christians, and Jews believe that Moses went into the wilderness and met Jethro (Shu'ayb) and married one of his daughters. No Christian theologian believes that Jesus ever married. There is some speculation, however, in Hollywood and other make-belief venues that Jesus married Mary Magdalene. These as just speculations or false accusations and are outside the realm of an intellectual discussion.
2.Moses and Muhammad had natural births from a human father and mother, while according to both Muslims and Christians, Jesus had a miraculous birth from only a mother. Certainly, miraculous events took place in relation to the births of both Moses and Muhammad; however, their births were not out of the ordinary. Christians only refer to the birth of Jesus as the Immaculate Conception.
3.Moses and Muhammad and their respective messages were eventually accepted by their people, while the Israelites rejected Jesus and his message. He had only a small group of people accept him. John 1:1 states: "He (Jesus) came unto his own, but his own received him not."
4.Both Moses and Muhammad brought laws for their people. But according to Christianity, Jesus did not bring any new laws. Matthew 5:17-18 states that Jesus said: "Think not that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets, but I have come to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."
5.Both Moses and Muhammad died natural deaths. But Christians believe that Jesus was crucified. So in this manner, Jesus and Moses are different, and Muhammad and Moses are similar.
6.Both Moses and Muhammad established governments. Moses and Muhammad became the rulers over their people. They had executive powers over their people. But Jesus did not.
7.Both Moses and Muhammad had an exodus. Moses led his people to freedom from Egypt to Palestine, and this migration was called the Exodus. Muhammad led his away from the oppression of the people of Mecca to Medina, and this migration was called the Hijrah. Both events were major episodes in the histories of these two great prophets.
"And will put my words in his mouth…"
This prophet will speak only God's words. What is interesting is that whenever God's words were revealed to Muhammad, he told them to the people exactly as it was revealed to him. That is why we see throughout the Qur'an verses that start with the command "Say!" (Qul). He was told to say such and such, and he even included the "Say!" when relating it to the people.

Moreover, verses 53:1-4 of the Qur'an state, "By the star, when it goes down: your companion (Muhammad) does not go astray, nor is he misled: nor does he speak out of desire; it is not but revelation revealed to him." Scholars have used this verse to show that whatever Muhammad says is God's word.

Verse Number 2: John 16:13-14
"How be it when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you."

Who is the spirit of truth?
Christians claim that it is the Holy Spirit. However, the original Greek word for it was either pariklytos, which means "the praised one" (Muhammad in Arabic) or parakletos, which means a comforter, an advocate, or the spirit of truth. We know that Jesus spoke of the praised one and mentioned his name. However, in order to bury this truth, the words were played with. Instead of mentioning the name that Jesus stated, its meaning was spread among people in order to hide the truth.

At any rate, when we study these verses closely, we see that they do not refer to the Holy Spirit. In reality, they cannot refer to anyone other than Prophet Muhammad. John 16:7: "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

Jesus has to go away in order for the Comforter or Spirit of truth. But the Bible clearly states that the Holy Spirit was on the earth while Jesus was there. From among the verses that testify to this are Genesis 1:2, 1 Samuel 10:10, 1 Samuel 11:16, Isaiah 63:11, Luke 1:15, 1:35, 1:41, 1: 67, 2:25-26, 3:22 and John 20:21-22. For example, Luke 3:22 states: "And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon him (Jesus)…"

Furthermore, the Bible uses the word "spirit" to mean prophet. 1 John 4:1-3 states: "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits to see if they are from God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

In addition, the verses under discussion say that the Spirit of truth "shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak." We already demonstrated this under the explanation of Deuteronomy 18:18. It also says: "That he shall glorify me," meaning this spirit or prophet will glorify Jesus. We see that the Qur'an and sayings of Prophet Muhammad are full of praises about Jesus. In reality, no one has praised Jesus as much as Prophet Muhammad.

The summary of all that has been said shows that these verses can only be about Muhammad. As the Qur'an (39:17-18) says: "Give the good news to those of My servants who hear the different sayings and choose the best one from among them; they are the ones guided by God, and they are the possessors of intellect."

http://www.islamicinsights.com/religion/clergy-corner/prophet-muhammad-in-the-bible.html

Matthew 21:43 (King James Version)

43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you (Jews), and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.





1.) can any learned and wise christian tell me the name of the nation that the kingdom of God was given to after the it was taken from the jews?

2.) can you tell me what is the "kingdom of God"?

3.) can you tell how it was TAKEN from the jews?


4.) can you tell me how it was GIVEN to the other nation?

in the history of humanity we see no other nation (singular noun),that have claimed prophecy and a prophet was sent from them and they preached the word of God and salvation than the arabs and the Prophet Muhammad.

the name "Muhammad" metioned in prophecy in the songs of solomon (in the bible).WATCH THESE YOUTUBE VIDEOS:

part 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cur_6aYs_7k

part 2:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxjx-jFcDzY&playnext=1&list=PL72CD9679C01489F3&index=25&ytsession=bm8tv-Ihm05ZYqNqUToKmc8-CUIpJghCPeQU8cYYJTT_Aaekru3ZtxB7di2Ozb7yFqq0dVmtUIH5Rh5ztPbglDXbwu-LF9umECxVn2ltiq7QD4xkMG_2WVZq6dgcJkHLS9J3s9XgXGlDIL02IvzhMxN7OUXqIeGIMQA2LXMuOiIgAKWRXa-gdpU2SyxyyE1Hmc2Kw0xfzay_lwBSRvYGu7xnDy51NN6kU1klWml4hBqCjIa9hooPLy_Sj22c1LbC7qg7UC8magHcWd-lB1TRy_PxevyqaagL6AcAcXSCdelTR__7ZgZIMr6JTawdGWz7b4lS2rd-OVoY1T2hfOPMjWmyH65yrFmQ

ISLAM IN ISAIAH 42:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/isaiah.htm

And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.  (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 17:20)"

The "great nation" of Ishmael and its definition in the Bible:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ishmael_great_nation.htm

FOR A THOROUGH REVIEW OF ALL RESEARCH BASED ON THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD,YOU CAN FIND MORE HERE (scroll down the website):

http://www.answering-christianity.com/predict.htm

why do you settle for the lesser one instead of the higher one, repent and accept Jesus, the way and the truth and the light of the world, he died on the cross for you.

My dear LagosShia, I love those passages you quoted from the scripture to butress your points, but i will like you to answer the following questions before further discussions:

1. Do you belief in the authenticity of the passages you quoted?
2. If your answer is YES to the above, are you ready to accept other passages of the scripture as also true and authentic for further discussons?
3. If NO, then have a wonderful time.

firebrand:

My dear LagosShia, I love those passages you quoted from the scripture to butress your points, but i will like you to answer the following questions before further discussions:

1. Do you belief in the authenticity of the passages you quoted?
2. If your answer is YES to the above, are you ready to accept other passages of the scripture as also true and authentic for further discussons?
3. If NO, then have a wonderful time.

Dear "Firebrand",

any verses quoted by me from the bible is not meant or intended to convince me but to convince those who take the bible as their sole and absolute authority and guide.the verses were therefore presented for your own pleasure.


the bible generally,i or a muslim quotes it when talking to you because you do not believe in the Quran.you believe in the bible so it is an authority and proof over you.you have to abide by it and the statements recorded therein and attributed to Jesus  .when the bible explicitly makes my case and supports islam,we simply are telling you to abide by your book and follow islam.

H$LBroker:

why do you settle for the lesser one instead of the higher one, repent and accept Jesus, the way and the truth and the light of the world, he died on the cross for you.

parroting what has being infused into your head is one thing and understanding and the truth is another thing.obedience/faith without understanding is blindness.prove to me what is the "lesser" one and which is the "higher" one instead of repeating slogans.

LagosShia:

parroting what has being infused into your head is one thing and understanding and the truth is another thing.obedience/faith without understanding is blindness.prove to me what is the "lesser" one and which is the "higher" one instead of repeating slogans.

I wasn't talking about your post, I was just contributing generally, God is the Higher one, Satan is the lesser one.

@poster

The real problem of the anti-christ is the 'messiahship of Jesus Christ'. The anti-christ will embrace Christianity as long as Jesus 'the messiah' is preached as Jesus 'the ordinary prophet'. It is not surprising that the new fad is to weave Islam into the Bible. When are you gonna tell us Mohammed is the Messiah and support it with Bible Scriptures? We know the trick - the Bible's already warned us about the 'fake' peace negotiation! We know who our Lord Jesus is and we know who the Holy Spirit is, and they have nothing in common with Mohammed!

+

John 10:26-28 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Verse Number 1: Deuteronomy 18:18
"I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I command him."

Oga OP,

No offense intended o, but you remind me so much about my dear friend and all time favourite NL religion section poster - Abuzola 

He had this unbelievable talent to read the bible backwards and then confidently spew out really crazy assertions in his zeal to "expose" christianity. 

When I started reading your OP, I instinctively knew you would repeat the mistake of quoting Deut 18;18 as prophetic/biblical validation for the Prophet Muhammad. You say it speaks of someone from outside the Jewish nation, eh? Lemme take you back a few verses right there in chapter 18:

15 "The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brethren--him you shall heed-- take note he wasn't speaking to arabs here 

16 just as you desired of the LORD your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, 'Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, or see this great fire any more, lest I die.'

17 And the LORD said to me, 'They have rightly said all that they have spoken.

18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brethren; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.


How did you get the idea this could even be referring to a non-jew, let alone Muhammad centuries later? 

@seyibrown and aletheia:

instead of facing the evidence provided and refute them if you can and i know you can never,you're here misusing your book and pointing fingers.you need to read the history of christian and the impact of the council of nicae on christian doctrines and the formation of the bible.you will see that doctrines like "crucifxion","original sin","divine sonship","trinity","assumption","deity of Jesus",etc all were never taught by Jesus.and here you have the gut to tell us muslims are "anti-christ".your state is pitiful.

Matthew 7:21 True and False Disciples
   21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

is Jesus refering to muslims,hindus,buddhists etc in the above?or is he refering to his so called followers who think they are christians or "christ-like"?

you need to find out why your fellow christians are turning to islam and islam remains the world's fastest growing religion.the truth and reality is clear.
God should not be associated with pagan doctrines.

LagosShia:

Matthew 7:21 True and False Disciples
   21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of [size=14pt]my Father who is in heaven. [/size]

Oga mi,

Jesus openly and clearly stated that God was/is his father. In Islam, the idea of Allah being a father to anyone (whether Jesus, Muhammad or disciples) is abhorred. Allah himself says he has no son and everybody else (disciples) are servants, not sons.

In light of that, I have one simple question for you - do you still think that Allah and the God of the bible/Christianity are one and the same?

funny that he is quoting that scripture because
Ephesians 2:20 quotes
That the church
is built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone];

So according to LagosShia

The church is built upon the foundation of prophets (Muhammed) with Jesus Christ himself being the
chief corner stone

Now that will be stretching the scriptures, don't u think?

petres_007:

Verse Number 1: Deuteronomy 18:18
"I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I command him."

Oga OP,

No offense intended o, but you remind me so much about my dear friend and all time favourite NL religion section poster - Abuzola  

He had this unbelievable talent to read the bible backwards and then confidently spew out really crazy assertions in his zeal to "expose" christianity.  

When I started reading your OP, I instinctively knew you would repeat the mistake of quoting Deut 18;18 as prophetic/biblical validation for the Prophet Muhammad. You say it speaks of someone from outside the Jewish nation, eh? Lemme take you back a few verses right there in chapter 18:

15 "The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brethren--him you shall heed-- take note he wasn't speaking to arabs here  

16 just as you desired of the LORD your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, 'Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, or see this great fire any more, lest I die.'

17 And the LORD said to me, 'They have rightly said all that they have spoken.

18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brethren; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.


How did you get the idea this could even be referring to a non-jew, let alone Muhammad centuries later?  

Deuteronomy 18:15 (King James Version)

15The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;


my friend you do not have to prove your argument as if you're begging for charity.the verse you presented depending on which version you are quoting and the wordings you are using,does not say anything different from 18:18.they are saying the same thing.infact why would God tell them "from thee",and then tell them "from thy brethren"?i can only understand that God is warning them that "your brethren" is the same as "thee" because both of you, the israelites and arabs are decendants of Abraham.therefore the israelites should accept that person "from their brothers".

the criteria of brethren does not still prove who the person could be.if you are simply claiming that because Jesus was a jew that is why the prophecy is about him,we can also say the prophecy refers to isaiah,ezekiel,jonah and so many other jewish prophets that came after the prophecy.if we are to go a step further to identify who this person is,we have to know the similarities between moses and the person.and we see that Jesus has the least similarities and more differences and Muhammad has more similarities and less differences with Moses.

infact we have a hadith which likens Muhammad to Moses and Ali to Harun (Aron),only that there would be no prophet after Muhammad.

before you laugh at others when you yourself made no sense,but because you think on the basis of Jesus being a jew is enough to prove a case,you should start laughing at yourself.you cannot be more jewish than the jew.and yet they do not accept Jesus even as a simple prophet but the muslim does accept him as the messaiah.yet still it does not mean we should not be objective and understand what each prophecy means and who is being talked about.

petres_007:

Oga mi,

Jesus openly and clearly stated that God was/is his father. In Islam, the idea of Allah being a father to anyone (whether Jesus, Muhammad or disciples) is abhorred. Allah himself says he has no son and everybody else (disciples) are servants, not sons.

In light of that, I have one simple question for you - do you still think that Allah and the God of the bible/Christianity are one and the same?

Jesus never claimed to be the "begotten" son of God.that word was expunged from the Revised Standard Version of the bible because it is believed that Jesus is not the "begotten" son of God."begotten" = "not made" i.e. "fathered"!"begotten" was removed.here is the exact verse from the RSV:

John.1
1.[14] And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.
2.[18] No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.

now the question is:if "begotten" is an interpolation,why does the RSV still maintain the word "only"?that is part of the christian desperation to give some kind of uniqueness to the birth of Jesus while compromising the uniqueness of God,as the only Creator!you will not mind making God a literal father like me and you just to make Jesus unique.you will take God's uniqueness away who has all the power just to make his created creature (Jesus) unique.

otherwise,if we admit "begotten" is an interpolation and the literal meaning is taken away by removing the word "begotten",then what makes Jesus the "only" son?nothing!there are so many others who are figuratively sons in the bible.

your scriptures have been changed constantly and the above is only one example to suit certain pagan doctrines which you cling on to firmly and yet fail to see that those interpolations have no basis in what Jesus preached.years of programming is hard to reverse in a single day.it is indeed an abomination of ascribing a son (literal and not figurative) to God.if you go to the bible God has "sons" in the tons.but that is figurative.even when Jesus calls God father as the jews used to,that is figurative.but the christian is so narrow-minded that because Jesus was born miraculously he has made God responsible for the pregnancy and therefore he is the literal "father".you forgot he is the Creator and has even created adam with no father.not only that even after adam,melchisedek is believed to have being created with no parents.then who deserves to be more of God's son?


you will find my answer to your question in that thread.that question has already being answer in another thread,here:

LagosShia:

We have One and only God.He is the One who sent Jesus.

i think the question should be "do christians follow Jesus"?and the answer is no.so basically,we do have the same God but christians do not worship that One and Only God the way muslims do.there is hardly a sect of christianity that does not believe in a god with the small "g" apart from the One and Only written with the big "G".even the Jehovah's witnesses who would camouflage and tell you that they do not believe in Trinity,are binitarians.what do i mean by "binitarians"?if you go to their version of the bible known as the New World Translation of the Bible,you will find that they do regard Jesus as a "god".you can check the new world translation (John 1:1,and John 1:18).so essentially,all christians do believe in more than one God even though they will certainly deny.as for the Jehovah's Witnesses,their explanation is "god" is a title but Jehovah is one.even at that,you should ask him why does he obey and worship Jehovah?the answer is because he believe Jehovah is God.so is it allowed or logical to have another being that is "god" or with the title of God?the answer is no.you can see that in:

Deuteronomy 6:4

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one

Isaiah 43:10:

“You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD,
“and my servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
Before me no god was formed,
nor will there be one after me.


Mark 12:29:

“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.


so regardless what name the supreme God has.regardless if you call Him Allah,or Jehovah or Chinekeh,the concept of a supreme Being in the bible as it is in the Quran is One God.the title is not to be shared by anyone else!

but here we have the christians believe in "thre-in-one" or what is known as "trinity" and we have the jehovah's witnesses believing in a small "god":

The New World Translation of the Jehovah's Witnesses:

John 1:1:
1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

John 1:18:

No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.

if we are to examine those verses carefully,both the word "god" and "begotten" are interpolations that would not be found in the Revise Standard Version.those words were expunged in the RSV because they are additions meant to suit/adjust to the doctrines of the followers of christianity.yet still so many versions up to this day including the new world translation and the catholic bible do contain interpolations.

@Seyibrown: « #11 on: Yesterday at 11:25:59 PM »
[Quote]@poster
The real problem of the anti-christ is the 'messiahship of Jesus Christ'. The anti-christ will embrace Christianity as long as Jesus 'the messiah' is preached as Jesus 'the ordinary prophet'. It is not surprising that the new fad is to weave Islam into the Bible. When are you gonna tell us Mohammed is the Messiah and support it with Bible Scriptures? Grin We know the trick - the Bible's already warned us about the 'fake' peace negotiation! We know who our Lord Jesus is and we know who the Holy Spirit is, and they have nothing in common with Mohammed![/Quote]I dont think you noticed that the label of the anti christ fits you, if you ignore the many verses the brother presented? if you reject the verses and stick with the others, your problem is who is right, you and the bible writers or Jesus who said what he said? Rather that you go into your home and meditate about it and wonder how Jesus could have said 2 opposite statements on a subject matter, except someone had entered corruptions and tag Jesus with it. Muhammad (AS) is not a messiah to a 12 tribe, Allah calls him mercy and a way of forgiveness for all mankind (@nd to the last verse of Surah Taubah). The whole world is far larger and more important that the children of Israel will ever be.


@aletheia (m): « #12 on: Today at 05:57:01 AM »
[QUote]+
Quote
John 10:26-28 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.[/Quote]How does this nullify all the verses that the brother quoted? You need to start thinking with wider lens, instead of this blinder you go about with.

@denitro: « #16 on: Today at 12:44:06 PM »
[QUote]funny that he is quoting that scripture because
Ephesians 2:20 quotes
That the church
is built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone];

So according to LagosShia

The church is built upon the foundation of prophets (Muhammed) with Jesus Christ himself being the
chief corner stone

Now that will be stretching the scriptures, don't u think?[/Quote]While LagosShia never said what you said he said, we must also understand that Ephesians was not from Jesus and no "Church" is known to the Jews. It could not have been possible that Jesus who worshipedin a Jewish temple will now propose a church, in his Aramaic language. But what is important, the reason for this thread is that you follow the verses quoted by my brother and follow what you said Jesus said by following the way of the Guide, the Another Comforter, unless you are saying that the Bible does not tell you that?

denitro:

funny that he is quoting that scripture because
Ephesians 2:20 quotes
That the church
is built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone];

So according to LagosShia

The church is built upon the foundation of prophets (Muhammed) with Jesus Christ himself being the
chief corner stone

Now that will be stretching the scriptures, don't u think?

even if am to accept what you quoted,where are the apostles for you to follow today?and out of the many conflicting churches that have no common fundamentals in beliefs,which church was Jesus talking about?the basis of christianity is not one.infact it is dead.you worship more than one god.the basis of all that the prophets preach is recognizing and honoring the One True God.in islam we have two major branches,shia and sunni,but we are blessed with the same fundamentals and the Quran is intact and the commonalities are way too many.


the apostles of Jesus passed away.and Muhammad was sent to guide you and Jesus talked about him.you must accept islam.

as for ephesians,the book was written by a fake prophet,Paul.you should check the "False prophecies in the new testament" thread and see what Paul prophesied.he taught he would never die and would be flying in the air to meet the lord (the rapture).now you know that your belief in the rapture is from a false prophecy.

^^^When you lie on him, you have became an anti christ. Your not telling the truth, is a quality of anti christ. Jesus said he is a servant sent. You call him God Who sent him. Thats an open and direct lie. Thats the quality of anti christ.

This is similar to when Almuhandis was pretending that he was your husband. He lied in that statement. You lie in the statement by which you call Jesus not servant but God Almighty.

@Seyibrown: [Quote]Sweetnecta, 'church' as referred to means 'congregation', not a physical building. The 'church' is the 'people', not the building.[/Quote]Building or CONGREGATION, tell me how a Jew use CHURCH for either. Show me, from OT and transfer it to Aramaic speaking Jesus. Show us Church in Aramaic.

You just dont get it it.

seyibrown:

Sweetnecta, 'church' as referred to means 'congregation', not a physical building. The 'church' is the 'people', not the building.

My salvation is through Jesus Christ, and I accept him as my Lord and saviour, so I cannot be said to be 'anti-christ'. Your brother clearly displays the kind of 'pretend ignorance' that is common among muslims when it comes to Jesus' messiahship. He has not said anything new, made any sense or proved anything.

it obvious you dont know the meaning of the words you use."pretend ignorance"?

is it a secret that i reject "crucifixion"?
is it a secret that i reject believing that your God sacrificed a human being against his will like a sheep?
is it a secret that i dont believe in 3 gods?
is it a secret i dont believe jesus is the literal son of God?
is it a secert i believ your bible is full of confusion and is corrupt?
is it a secret i reject Jesus being a god?

if islam rejects all those pagan beliefs brought through roman influence into christianity,why accuse me of pretending?am sure you dont live in mars.and even if there is life in mars you will surely find the holy Quran already there waiting for you.go and get a quran and read for yourself.

while we reject all your exaggerations about Jesus we dont also go to the extreme and accuse Jesus himself of being fake.we know all your pagan beliefs were not taught by Jesus,prophet of God.we dont reject him like the jews do and accuse him of being an illegitimate child.we believe he is a prophet and servant of God born of A virgin by the will and power of God.God created him.

Sweetnecta:

^^^When you lie on him, you have became an anti christ. Your not telling the truth, is a quality of anti christ. Jesus said he is a servant sent. You call him God Who sent him. Thats an open and direct lie. Thats the quality of anti christ.

This is similar to when Almuhandis was pretending that he was your husband. He lied in that statement. You lie in the statement by which you call Jesus not servant but God Almighty.

it is not your fault.it is what you read and being made to believe:a documented lie disguised as the truth.take for example the word "begotten" which is an interpolation in the bible.they play and twist your scripture to make you believe it is the truth.

throughout the 4 gospels,the word "resurrection" does not appear.every time it is stated "he (jesus) is alive"alive not resurrected!!!alive because he did not die.the only place where Jesus is stated to have being witnessed to ascend to heaven is relegated to a footnote in the bible because you are not sure that is true and the earliest manuscripts dont contain those verses.(see mark 16 verses 9-20))

it obvious you dont know the meaning of the words you use."pretend ignorance"?

[b]An example of 'pretend ignorance' is when Sweetnecta asks 'How does the Holy Spirit (God's spirit)that does not have a voice speak?' and 'How does the Holy Ghost write a book?' but he will swear on the Quran that Mohammed received the teachings in the Quran from God! How exactly did he receive it from God? God gave him the book?

Another example is when Sweetnecta tells me that 'Jesus did not die but went to Kashmir to live and died there'; and then tells me again that Jesus did not die at all but he will die and be buried at the judgement.

Another example is that he quotes Bukhari to support many of his Islamic beliefs but when I say Bukhari's writings say that Mohammed slept with Aisha when she was 9 years old, He then tells me that Bukhari is deranged!  LOL!

He even tries to justify why Mohammed sleeps with his son's wife. Sweetnecta will not sleep with a 9 year old but will gladly give his 9 year old daughter to a 52 year old to have carnal knowledge of her. He is 'conservative muslim' but it is okay to diss the Trinity  and Xtianity but when I point out true things about Mohammed and Islam he threatens that his brothers will start a war!

He believes that Jesus is a servant because Jesus said so but refuses to believe that Jesus is the Son of God and Jesus is God despite that Jesus said it!

He tells me that Jesus (who died and ressurected) did not have power to save himself but then forgot to tell me that Mohammed suffered for 3 years after being poisoned by one of his s-e-x slaves.

I explained to him that 'church' as reffered to in the new testament means 'congregation' and he is asking me to tell him where in the OT a jew used a church. He refuses all manner of the impartation of truth!

I could just go on and on! 


Your list of what you reject on the basis of your religion points out that your religion is a manifestation of the spirit of the anti-christ.[/b]

Dear LagosShia,

Pls, kindly let me know which part of the Bible is really true and to be believed, and which part is false to be ignored. I ask this question because on the one hand you quote some passages and claim they fit into Islamic / Koranic perception. On the  other hand you quote some other passages and claim they are not to be accepted.

Secondly, how come the Koran says Ishmael was the one Abraham tried to sacrifice to God? The Bible says it was Issac. How come the Koran says Mary gave birth to Jesus alone, unassisted, under some tree (?palm/date), brought the baby back home and the baby began to talk same day? The Bible says Jesus was born in a manger in Bethelehem. Joseph, the husband of Mary, was there at least. How come Mohammed himself was not sure of aljana? Why must men including devout moslems first go to hell before Allah decides who comes out?, (you can forgive my ignorance). Is it true that Mohammed married a juvenile?

Mohammed, Islam and the Koran appeared 600 years after Jesus had finished His earthly ministry. The Old Testament was already in existence 400 years before Christ physically appeared on the world scene painstakingly preserved by the Jews and Jesus quoted from there. The events recorded in it were relatively near the times of their writings. Suddenly, the Koran appeared centuries after and Ishmael replaced Issac. Jesus was no longer born in a manger. It is apparent that both the Bible and the Koran, Christianity and Islam can not both be right and be from One Source.      

Finally, I thought Christians and Jews 'own' the Bible. Shouldn't they be the ones to tell you what the Bibles says? How come you are the ones to explain their book to them? If you dont respond to any of these, pls respond to the first querry. May God open our eyes more clearly. Amen. (after, let us talk about what Mohammed promised moslems and what Jesus promised christians) Thank you

Dear LagosShia do you believe in the word of God in the bible if yes, I have a question for you, after you post yes or no

@Seyibrown: « #27 on: Today at 05:35:17 PM »
[Quote]Quote
it obvious you dont know the meaning of the words you use."pretend ignorance"?

An example of 'pretend ignorance' is when Sweetnecta asks 'How does the Holy Spirit (God's spirit)that does not have a voice speak?' and 'How does the Holy Ghost write a book?' but he will swear on the Quran that Mohammed received the teachings in the Quran from God! How exactly did he receive it from God? God gave him the book?[/Quote]So are you saying the Means of which Muhammad ibn Abdallah (AS) received almost all the Quran is your "Holy Spirit"? If you are saying that, then name that "Holy Spirit", since I know the name of the means, the bringer (AS) of the Quran to Muhammad (AS) from Allah (SWT), except the last 4 verses of Surah Baqarah received directly from Allah on the occasion of Isra wa Miraj? You are the one who is ignorant and actually thinking you are smart; meaning in my book "Pretend Ignorance" for ignoring the truth and clinging to lies.



[Quote]Another example is when Sweetnecta tells me that 'Jesus did not die but went to Kashmir to live and died there'; and then tells me again that Jesus did not die at all but he will die and be buried at the judgement.[/Quote]Please show me where I have said the bold. If there is anything I disagree with, the bold is it. But since you said it is my words, please print in with my name as soon as possible.



[Quote]Another example is that he quotes Bukhari to support many of his Islamic beliefs but when I say Bukhari's writings say that Mohammed slept with Aisha when she was 9 years old, He then tells me that Bukhari is deranged! Grin LOL![/Quote]While I never said Bukhari is deranged, it is your dubious statement alone. If I am able to resist myself from running after women that am not married to, regardless of their marriage status, did you think it was a quality developed by my yorubaness, or my nigerianness, or by my being a male in the mist of shapely single ready to drop their "you know what" in this cold swell, except this quality I pick up from Muhammad (AS)?Are you for real or you are just in your pretension, again? Your christian males, your husband's friend or not are salivating like Pavlov dog and will take the first chance if they have it, while a muslim will fear Allah, and revert as well to the quality of Muhammad and fight the "offering". I answered your question, and I hope you are shrewd enough to know that?



[Quote]He even tries to justify why Mohammed sleeps with his son's wife. Sweetnecta will not sleep with a 9 year old but will gladly give his 9 year old daughter to a 52 year old to have carnal knowledge of her. He is 'conservative muslim' but it is okay to diss the Trinity and Xtianity but when I point out true things about Mohammed and Islam he threatens that his brothers will start a war![/Quote]Typical christian gimmick. Please post where the bold was said by me. You are batting 0 for 2 now. Another strike, you are out. If I were to have a 9 year old daughter who is ready to have sex, and she is interested in a 52 year old man, I will give her to him, since thats what she wants, rather than making her lady as well as the tramp. While I have explained many times, I have also asked that you tell me if Aisha was under age in the 15th year of Islam,by telling me when she was born, with evidence relative to her father, Abu Bakr (RA) accepting Islam. Thats a good frame of reference. Hope you will take me on, on this.



[Quote]He believes that Jesus is a servant because Jesus said so but refuses to believe that Jesus is the Son of God and Jesus is God despite that Jesus said it![/Quote]If all of these, 2 completely opposing views came from the mouth of Jesus, we will have to ask why, especially when he didnt say "my partner, or my father", but my God instead? Somebody is lying, or some people have lied on Jesus with two opposing views, the reason we know there is corruption in your Bible, since God didnt reveal it, anyway, but revealed Torah to Moses, Sabur to David, And Injil to Isa bin Maryam, people who lived centuries apart. Now who did He reveal Bible since these people never lived to overlap one another's time?



[Quote]He tells me that Jesus (who died and ressurected) did not have power to save himself but then forgot to tell me that Mohammed suffered for 3 years after being poisoned by one of his s-e-x slaves.[/QUote]And Jesus said, "of my own power, I can do nothing". And in case of Muhammad, you lied, again, making it 3 times in a row.Here is the hadith and tell me where you found her to be a "S-e-x slave", except that you are a joke; From Bukhari's Hadith 4.394: Narrated Abu Huraira: When Khaibar was conquered, a roasted poisoned sheep was presented to the Prophet as a gift (by the Jews). The Prophet ordered, "Let all the Jews who have been here, be assembled before me." The Jews were collected and the Prophet said (to them), "I am going to ask you a question. Will you tell the truth?" They said, "Yes." The Prophet asked, "Who is your father?" They replied, "So-and-so." He said, "You have told a lie; your father is so-and-so." They said, "You are right." He said, "Will you now tell me the truth, if I ask you about something?" They replied, "Yes, O Abu Al-Qasim; and if we should tell a lie, you can realize our lie as you have done regarding our father." On that he asked, "Who are the people of the (Hell) Fire?" They said, "We shall remain in the (Hell) Fire for a short period, and after that you will replace us." The Prophet said, "You may be cursed and humiliated in it! By Allah, we shall never replace you in it." Then he asked, "Will you now tell me the truth if I ask you a question?" They said, "Yes, O Abu Al-Qasim." He asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?" They said, "Yes." He asked, "What made you do so?" They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you."



[Quote]I explained to him that 'church' as reffered to in the new testament means 'congregation' and he is asking me to tell him where in the OT a jew used a church. He refuses all manner of the impartation of truth![/Quote]Since Jesus is a Jew and knows about Temple, tell me how the lying writers of the Bible derived Church from the word Temple? I think my questions are too complex for you. Will the Jews build a "church" instead of Temple in their effort to destroy Masjid Aqsa, and The Dome of the Rock? Your arguments are laughable, at best.



[QUote]I could just go on and on! Grin
Your list of what you reject on the basis of your religion points out that your religion is a manifestation of the spirit of the anti-christ.[/Quote]And Jesus said of the "Another Comforter, which is "holy spirit" sent by God", he shall correct people, since you are saying that by inferenceyou are part of the generation that he will work on. But he must hear and repeat and directed by God Himself. Does God Spirit need authority from God to work, or those who are messengers of God are the ones that need His Authority? If you are among the generation, then Muhammad ibn Abdallah (AS) through the Quran which is revealed to him, and the hadith and sunnah by which he gave explanation and practical living of the Quran, has stated without any doubt that God is Ahad (One, Indivisible), and any association with Him leads to hellfire. Read the 10 Commandments of Moses to see something similar.

Sweetnecta:

@aletheia (m): « #12 on: Today at 05:57:01 AM »How does this nullify all the verses that the brother quoted? You need to start thinking with wider lens, instead of this blinder you go about with.

Stop running when no one is chasing you.

aletheia:

^^^Typical of Islamic polemics. When the lies of Islam are revealed, y'all redoubt to insults, abuse and threats instead of soberly considering that you are mistaken.

Just answer a simple question: Where is the barrier that Dhul Qarnayn built?

Up till now, you have not been able to answer it after your attempt at dodging the question failed.