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| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by aletheia(m): 11:17pm On Nov 16, 2010 |
Sweetnecta: Stop chasing shadows and addressing irrelevancies: address the main issue. aletheia: |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by seyibrown(f): 11:19pm On Nov 16, 2010 |
@ post # 30 You are so funny! It is very lovely (but sometimes tiring) trying to explain things to you! Now I understand what my school teachers meant when they said someone had a 'coconut head'! You'd have to break the coconut before you can get anything into it!  You are so hilarious! Sweetnecta, may God grant you true wisdom from above, and God bless you. Amen! Will not quit praying for you! |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by Sweetnecta: 11:39pm On Nov 16, 2010 |
@Omoimole: « #28 on: Today at 05:40:24 PM » [Quote]Dear LagosShia, Pls, kindly let me know which part of the Bible is really true and to be believed, and which part is false to be ignored. I ask this question because on the one hand you quote some passages and claim they fit into Islamic / Koranic perception. On the other hand you quote some other passages and claim they are not to be accepted.[/Quote]He has proven to you by the above that you have truth and lie together in the Bible. You wanna know the truth real the Quran, and why are you omoimole and you are a keferi? You opted out of Islam, leave Imole out of your name and say you are purely Keferi. [Quote]Secondly, how come the Koran says Ishmael was the one Abraham tried to sacrifice to God? The Bible says it was Issac. How come the Koran says Mary gave birth to Jesus alone, unassisted, under some tree (?palm/date), brought the baby back home and the baby began to talk same day? The Bible says Jesus was born in a manger in Bethelehem. Joseph, the husband of Mary, was there at least. [/Quote]Mary was married and remained virgin?Omoimole,you will let a virgin last 2 hours still a virgin, when everyone is gone? How many children Mary had for old man Joseph, except none? [Quote]How come Mohammed himself was not sure of aljana? Why must men including devout moslems first go to hell before Allah decides who comes out?, (you can forgive my ignorance).[/Quote]Your ignorance is forgiven, am sure LagosShia will concur with me. This hadith here, though i posted it above, but you deserve your own because it made it clear to you and we have tons and tons of verses talking about Aljana by your writing for believers, and Hell for disbelievers. If you know any verse of the Quran or hadith that says Muslims without any question will enter hell, before Aljana,please bring it forward. Whats amazing is that disbelievers do not pay attention to the fact that Quran states that they will end up in hell; From Bukhari's Hadith 4.394: Narrated Abu Huraira: When Khaibar was conquered, a roasted poisoned sheep was presented to the Prophet as a gift (by the Jews). The Prophet ordered, "Let all the Jews who have been here, be assembled before me." The Jews were collected and the Prophet said (to them), "I am going to ask you a question. Will you tell the truth?" They said, "Yes." The Prophet asked, "Who is your father?" They replied, "So-and-so." He said, "You have told a lie; your father is so-and-so." They said, "You are right." He said, "Will you now tell me the truth, if I ask you about something?" They replied, "Yes, O Abu Al-Qasim; and if we should tell a lie, you can realize our lie as you have done regarding our father." On that he asked, "Who are the people of the (Hell) Fire?" They said, "We shall remain in the (Hell) Fire for a short period, and after that you will replace us." The Prophet said, "You may be cursed and humiliated in it! By Allah, we shall never replace you in it." Then he asked, "Will you now tell me the truth if I ask you a question?" They said, "Yes, O Abu Al-Qasim." He asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?" They said, "Yes." He asked, "What made you do so?" They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you." [Quote]Is it true that Mohammed married a juvenile?[/QUote]It is false. If you know a juvenile that he (AS) married (RA), give me her name and her birth date relative to the advent of his prophethood. This way, you can establish a time line from which we can argue upon. [Quote]Mohammed, Islam and the Koran appeared 600 years after Jesus had finished His earthly ministry. The Old Testament was already in existence 400 years before Christ physically appeared on the world scene painstakingly preserved by the Jews and Jesus quoted from there. The events recorded in it were relatively near the times of their writings. Suddenly, the Koran appeared centuries after and Ishmael replaced Issac. Jesus was no longer born in a manger. It is apparent that both the Bible and the Koran, Christianity and Islam can not both be right and be from One Source. [/Quote]The bold is correct. Jesus himself criticized the Jews not following the old testament. He did not quote the whole testament and actually declared that the pen of the scribes have written what is not true, as to indicate corruption in the OT, the reason he was redirecting them to truth. You have already by your 400 years defended the Quran. Jesus did not speak about the place he was born, nor did he speak about the sons of Abraham and which one of them was to be slaughtered. By the way, Jews used to make Hajj according to the calling of Abraham. please research it, and if you fail to get any information on it, there is a cartoon posted on a thread here on Nairaland, by a christian which supports my statement. Now why would the Jews make Hajj and slaughter animals in Makka? Why do the Muslims, in all honesty continue to do it without breaking the tradition on one hand claiming that Jesus was born without a father, saying his mother Mary is the best of all women, and on the other hand saying that Ismail (AS) is the son of Slaughter, and not Isiaqa (AS)? Which is a more honorable of the two statement to give to your tribe, and you gave it to a woman from a tribe that hated your people? This shows that he was made to say it, and same with Ismail over Isiaq. Its amazing how Jews have a holiday for the McCabee family over Syrian, yet an event this great is ignored if it has been Isiaq, which proves it was not Isiaq at all, since Jews never saw a holiday that they didnt latch on to. [Quote]Finally, I thought Christians and Jews 'own' the Bible. Shouldn't they be the ones to tell you what the Bibles says? How come you are the ones to explain their book to them?[/QUote]But we can all read. Did brother LagosShia say something that was not in the Bible, already? How is Jesus like Moses, apart from the fact that they were both males and from the blood lines of Isaac and Jacob? What Muhammad had in common with Moses are each that Jesus does not have in common with him, except the tribe thing. And many Messengers and Prophets were not Jews or from the blood lines of Isaac and his son Jacob. Think about it. [Quote]If you dont respond to any of these, pls respond to the first querry. May God open our eyes more clearly. Amen. (after, let us talk about what Mohammed promised moslems and what Jesus promised christians) Thank you[/Quote]Jesus promised nothing to the Christians. The Christians borrowed his name for a religion that he knew nothing about and did not sanction. The only thing you did that is correct is invoke God Who Alone is Capable of directing all affairs. |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by Sweetnecta: 12:21am On Nov 17, 2010 |
@Aletheia: « #32 on: Today at 11:17:49 PM » [Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Today at 10:40:06 PM And in case of Muhammad, you lied, again, making it 3 times in a row.Here is the hadith and tell me where you found her to be a "S-e-x slave", except that you are a joke; From Bukhari's Hadith 4.394: Narrated Abu Huraira: When Khaibar was conquered, a roasted poisoned sheep was presented to the Prophet as a gift (by the Jews). The Prophet ordered, "Let all the Jews who have been here, be assembled before me." The Jews were collected and the Prophet said (to them), "I am going to ask you a question. Will you tell the truth?" They said, "Yes." The Prophet asked, "Who is your father?" They replied, "So-and-so." He said, "You have told a lie; your father is so-and-so." They said, "You are right." He said, "Will you now tell me the truth, if I ask you about something?" They replied, "Yes, O Abu Al-Qasim; and if we should tell a lie, you can realize our lie as you have done regarding our father." On that he asked, "Who are the people of the (Hell) Fire?" They said, "We shall remain in the (Hell) Fire for a short period, and after that you will replace us." The Prophet said, "You may be cursed and humiliated in it! By Allah, we shall never replace you in it." Then he asked, "Will you now tell me the truth if I ask you a question?" They said, "Yes, O Abu Al-Qasim." He asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?" They said, "Yes." He asked, "What made you do so?" They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you." Stop chasing shadows and addressing irrelevancies: address the main issue.[/Quote]Tell me the difference[s] between the aboveand the one just below. Think before you start typing. [Quote]Quote from: aletheia on November 14, 2010, 09:04 PM Your hadiths and other Islamic historians do emphatically declare that your prophet died of poison at the hand of a woman. From Bukhari's Hadith 3.786: Narrated Anas bin Malik: A Jewess brought a poisoned (cooked) sheep for the Prophet who ate from it. She was brought to the Prophet and he was asked, "Shall we kill her?" He said, "No." I continued to see the effect of the poison on the palate of the mouth of Allah's Apostle. From Bukhari's Hadith 5.713: Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison." From Ibn Sa'd's "the "Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir" Bishr did not rise form his seat but his color changed to that of "taylsan" (a green cloth). . .The apostle of Allah sent for Zaynab and said to her, "What induced you to do what you have done?" She replied, "You have done to my people what you have done. You have killed my father, my uncle and my husband, so I said to myself, "If you are a prophet, the foreleg will inform you; and others have said, "If you are a king we will get rid of you." The apostle of Allah lived after this three years till in consequence of his pain he passed away. During his illness he used to say, "I did not cease to find the effect of the (poisoned) morsel, I took at Khaibar and I suffered several times (from its effect) but now I feel the hour has come of the cutting of my jugular vein." From Tabari's "History" The messenger of God said during the illness from which he died - the mother of Bishr had come in to visit him - "Umm Bishr, at this very moment I feel my aorta being severed because of the food I ate with your son at Khaybar."[/Quote] [Quote]Are you now educated concerning how your prophet died shamefully at the hand of a woman?[/Quote]I wo yi o ni itiju sha. O de yoobun pelu e. Iru i wo yi ni awon to ma nso wipe yoruba yobun ri ti won fi so wipe o nilati je wipe ooto ni. If I should be ashamed that a 60 year old man ate poison and died at 63, what should you be doing when your god dies at 33? I think you need to do more than to be ashamed, with your perpetually in slumber soul. [Quote]In fact he failed the test she set for him: 'You have killed my father, my uncle and my husband, so I said to myself, "If you are a prophet, the foreleg will inform you;[/Quote]And the foreleg informed him. But God had decreed on His messenger was already decreed. A usli poisoned is Shehid. Its amazing how tie and time again you do not have the ability to see the far away forest, but the grace always in fro of your nose. [Quote]and others have said, "If you are a king we will get rid of you."' If Muhammad was a true prophet, then either: A. He would have known the meat was poisoned before he put it in his mouth and chewed the morsel and refused to eat it, or B. The poison would have had no effect on him.[/Quote]Lets lower the bar for your 33 year old god. I remember my 33rd birthday. I was strong like a Mule. Rugged looking with my beard then. A god killed by human mob, which he had avoided for a while, proofs that he aint no God, but god, like ogun, or whatever of the yoruba idolaters. To expect a Messenger who had delivered the message to remain on earth longer is based on pure disbelief. A man ate poison he died right there on the spot, while his boss who ate the same thing lived for three years before he died. tell me if the one who lived for three years is not special to have survived at all, never mind for 3 years? [Quote]But as we can see your prophet did not know, so he chewed and your idol "al-ilah Hubal" of Mecca could not protect his prophet who subsequently suffered the effects of the poison for 3 years before dying of it.[/Quote]While Yahweh out rightly rejected the plea of his partner, we hear the partner saying "my God, my God. . . . .", because common Jews with billy clubs are doing him in. That should be a thing you need to address rather than a human prophet that survived the worst food poison for 3 years. If his survival was a sign for his prophethood, definitely your god dying as he was nailed shows he was not even a prophet according to the begging which was totally rejected. I dont know how far you want us to ride in your peril motorcade? [Quote]From your qur'an, verse saying Jesus is alive: 3:55. (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ. ^^Do you see that even your qur'an says those who follow Jesus (Christians) are above others.[/Quote]When was the bold said to Jesus? Who were the disbelievers while Jesus was alive; muslims under Muhammad (AS)? Apply knowledge and your mind simultaneously, sometimes. [Quote]. . . typical of Islamic polemic; slander and lie without being specific. Y'all deliberately misunderstand: Christians do not worship the god that Muslims worship. Our Heavenly Father is different from and not the same as "Allah". You will not find the name of your god in any of our scriptures.[/Quote]The bold is the only sensible thing you said, above. WHile your lords are disputing among themselves, one wants another to die, while the third is disregarded altogether, the one destined to die begged for mercy. Read your Bible, or whatever you wish to read; you will find it so. I am different in the fact that my Lord is One, unlike your 3 gods, who are trying upstage and outshine one another. You are in a rude awakening in their hands, in their differences in agenda. You will never be able to satisfy their egos, in their disputations. |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by seyibrown(f): 12:26am On Nov 17, 2010 |
Mary was married and remained virgin?Omoimole,you will let a virgin last 2 hours still a virgin, when everyone is gone? How many children Mary had for old man Joseph, except none? Pretend ignorance: You told me that Mary had a daughter but had been praying to God for a son, and the rest about how the angel met her and told her she would have a son on the way back from her 'end of menses' bath1 . . . . and all the rest! I do take in what you try to explain to me, Sweetnecta, what do you do with what I try to explain to you? The Bible says Joseph did not 'touch' Mary until after the child was born. John 2:12 says he had brothers, and Matt. 13:54-56 says he had brothers and sisters. Since there was no record of Mary marrying any other, She had other children besides Jesus for Joseph! I hope you check the Bible, remember this, and never ask the question again because it will be you 'pretending to be ignorant' of what has already been explained to you! |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by seyibrown(f): 12:40am On Nov 17, 2010 |
And the foreleg informed him. But God had decreed on His messenger was already decreed. A usli poisoned is Shehid. Its amazing how tie and time again you do not have the ability to see the far away forest, but the grace always in fro of your nose. Pretend ignorance: God decreed Mohammed's poisoning! God had nothing to do with Jesus Death (and resurrection), the Jews just decided to kill him, they did but he managed pretend he was dead and escaped to Kashmir when the Jews weren't looking! Sweet, Please explain the bolded in English! Don't understand what is USLI or what is SHEHID! It's not fair when you try to cheat us with Arabic now! We'll never understand the teachings of Islam if you try to give it to us in Arabic. Ko si ede ti Olorun o gbo, so please speak the language that we understand. Leave the arabic for when you are communicating with learned muslims and Allah! |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by LagosShia: 1:04am On Nov 17, 2010 |
hello to you all, i just want to quickly post some points randomly that i read to clarify some misconceptions.time is not on my side,so i would later still go through the posts to reply to any point ive not replied to. 1.) the Prophet never died because of any poison.he died a natural death.if you dont believe just know that you are just being foolish to believe that he was poisoned .infact more foolish than the person who fabricated that hadith. it is illogical and inconceivable that a man would be poisoned today and would later die after more than 2 years.the Prophet passed away more than two years after khaybar incident.no medical finding can support the idea of someone dying after 2 years of poisoning and you still say the cause of death is poison.as for the incident itself,it did take place but the Prophet knew the meat served was poisoned so he didnt take it at all.several other attempts to kill him were also divinely exposed and prevented. __ 2.) aisha was not 9 years old when the Prophet married her.she was not less than 15 based on historical sources.these sources also put her age at 19 when the Prophet married her.the attempt to make her look so young was fabrication aimed to make Aisha seem so innocent and harmless.we know the reasons behind the attempt. 3.) as in regards to the bible my stance and the muslim stance,i have already stated that.find it and read it.as for what is right and what is wrong in that book,read the bible and let a qualified muslim guide you through it.i dont want to be arrogant and tell you whatever isnt against the quran.infact such words would be uncalled for.the bible itself is a testimony and proof against itself.the bible have too many times give different and opposite answers to the same question.take for examplf the question whether sin is inherited or not.to drink or not to drink,etc.you cant completely depend on a confused book. 4.) the bible says Abraham was about to sacrifice his only son.Ishmael is older than Isaac.so there cannot be anytime Isaac was the only son.if u want to take or believe jewish supremacist argument or believe in blasphemy that the patriarch,Abraham had an illegitimate child and therefore Isaac is the legitimate first born and was the one to be sacrificed,i cannot say further but allow you to believe in such nonsense and blashemy.you are free.infact blasphemy and degrading the prophets of God isnt new since the bible is full of disgusting stories accusing men of God of the most heinous and shameful sins like adultery,incest and prostitution. If iv not replied to any significant point,i will do that soon,when time permits. Goodnight. N.B. Please this thread is about bible verse that have to do with the Prophet.the thread is not about Khaybar or any other topic.if you have nothing constructive to contribute,please dont post irrelevant issues not related to the topic of the thread aimed at derailing the thread.thank yot. |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by Sweetnecta: 2:59am On Nov 17, 2010 |
@Seyibrown; « #36 on: Today at 12:26:48 AM » [Quote]Quote Mary was married and remained virgin? Omoimole, you will let a virgin last 2 hours still a virgin, when everyone is gone? How many children Mary had for old man Joseph, except none? Pretend ignorance: You told me that Mary had a daughter but had been praying to God for a son, and the rest about how the angel met her and told her she would have a son on the way back from her 'end of menses' bath1 . . . . and all the rest! I do take in what you try to explain to me, Sweetnecta, what do you do with what I try to explain to you?[/Quote]Could you show me a post that I claimed the bold? I am sure Mary is different from her mother. [Quote]The Bible says Joseph did not 'touch' Mary until after the child was born.[/Quote]Your Bible is a liar, since even you didnt last the night as a virgin after your marriage. Your husband was not as old to you as Joseph was as old to Mary. And old men are "impatience" around their young wife, wanting to proof their strength. I know. I am talking from experience. [Quote] John 2:12 says he had brothers, and Matt. 13:54-56 says he had brothers and sisters. Since there was no record of Mary marrying any other, She had other children besides Jesus for Joseph![/Quote]Considering the fact that old man Joseph must have been married before, is that not obvious that Mary was just a step mother, since there was no record of her being pregnant, except on Jesus, and no other pregnancy. You are suggesting that Joseph was not a father, why would a man like that want a virgin at that age? [Quote]I hope you check the Bible, remember this, and never ask the question again because it will be you 'pretending to be ignorant' of what has already been explained to you![/QUote]What is truth makes sense. What is a lie makes great confusion. Check your Bible with the admixture of lies and truth. Its like gari and yepe. when you soak them, you will see the gari separate from the yepe. [Quote]« #37 on: Today at 12:40:11 AM » Quote And the foreleg informed him. But God had decreed on His messenger was already decreed. A usli poisoned is Shehid. Its amazing how tie and time again you do not have the ability to see the far away forest, but the grace always in fro of your nose. Pretend ignorance: God decreed Mohammed's poisoning! God had nothing to do with Jesus Death (and resurrection), the Jews just decided to kill him, they did but he managed pretend he was dead and escaped to Kashmir when the Jews weren't looking! Grin[/QUote]You seem to be in quagmire of ignorance. While I never hypothesized that Jesus went and or died in Kashmir, and you can show my post on thi issue, if you continue to advance this idea. However, what is in contention about Jesus is primarily your claim that he is "God". Dead or alive, resurrected or not, each is secondary, and every alive shall die, and then every dead shall resurrect. But God is not bound by any of them. When you get that first, then it will become apparent that what the Quran says about Jesus; not dead yet, lifted up. Shall come back and shall die for the first time and shall resurrect for Judgment Day, like all that have died. [Quote]Sweet, Please explain the bolded in English! Don't understand what is USLI or what is SHEHID! It's not fair when you try to cheat us with Arabic now! Grin[/QUote]Slip of the computer. The M refused to register."Muslim who dies of poison is a Martyr. There is no Arabic in it except Shehid [Martyr]. Oje ma pe ayon ore oko e ni "sweet". They may think that you are coming on to them; they are fast and loose. Remember that. Won o ni moo si aidaa. [Quote]We'll never understand the teachings of Islam if you try to give it to us in Arabic. Ko si ede ti Olorun o gbo, so please speak the language that we understand. Leave the arabic for when you are communicating with learned muslims and Allah![/Quote]My response above covers your joke here. |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by dankol: 2:11pm On Nov 17, 2010 |
Well, I have seen and found out that it is futility arguing with slaves, we are sons and daughters of God, just help them in prayer. this could denerate to a kind of online jihad. please lets use this means for more fruitfulb discussions. thanks. |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by almoner(m): 2:38pm On Nov 17, 2010 |
Who are we to judge? May the Almighty show us the rightful way |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by seyibrown(f): 3:00pm On Nov 17, 2010 |
[b]Sweet and Shia (and others), It is clear that no matter what we explain to you, no matter what truth we show you, your 'coconut heads' and 'hearts of stone' will not accept it because you choose not to accept. You find God by looking for him. If you don't look for him you won't find him. We can quote the bible to you from today till tomorrow, and tell you how good the Lord has been to us but it won't do anything to 'hearts of stone' that refuse to search for God! Seek God yourselves; ask him to show you himself! Try not to ask using fixed arabic words like 'Allah'; ask in your native tongue! You can start by thinking for a moment; What if I have been following the wrong person?. And then cry out to God to show himself to you. His revelation of himself to you is more valid than whatever witness we give to you!(I advise the last part because I myself have asked God to prove himself and he did!) From now on, I will only answer your questions that 'seek clarification' of Bible/Christian matters.[/b] |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by seyibrown(f): 4:48pm On Nov 17, 2010 |
@LagosShia 1.Christians believe that Jesus is God and the Son of God. This is a fundamental principle in Trinitarian Christianity. If one does not believe in this, he is not a Christian. But Christians do not say that Moses is God or the Son of God. Therefore, this is a major difference between Moses and Jesus. If Christians say that Jesus is not God or the Son of God, or that Moses is also God and the Son of God, then their entire belief system will be turned upside down. Yes, If one does not believe that Jesus is the son of God, and that he is God come down to us in the flesh to save us, he is not a Christian! Moses is not the son of God or God come down to us in the flesh, and he never said he was but Jesus said he was the son of God and that he and the father are the same. It will therefore be impossible for anyone to claim to be Christian and refute who Jesus said he is; and as they are followers of Christ and not Moses, there is no need to say Moses was who he did not say he was especially as the work of our salvation was done through Jesus and not Moses. 2.Christians believe that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of humanity. But they do not believe that about Moses. This belief is a core requirement of Christianity. If one does not believe in it, he will not be saved and is not considered a Christian. This is another major difference between Jesus and Moses. Either the Christians will have to deny what they believe about Jesus or believe the same thing for Moses, both of which puts the very foundation of their religion in question. Yes, Jesus birth was miraculous as his was conceived by the breath of God - the same breath that was breathed into Adam - and this makes him superior to men of 'natural births' He was born of the spirit, of the breath of God and we can therefore not compare him to men of 'ordinary births'. He is not in the same league as Moses or Mohammed! He is 'HIGHER', therefore, Moses and Mohammed cannot do do things equal to what he did - THE WORK OF SALVATION THAT WAS DONE ON THE CROSS OF CALVARY! 3.Moses and Muhammad and their respective messages were eventually accepted by their people, while the Israelites rejected Jesus and his message. He had only a small group of people accept him. John 1:1 states: "He (Jesus) came unto his own, but his own received him not." The Israelites(in the wilderness) had no one else to lead them but Moses. I don't know if the Arabs had someone else to lead them but they seem to had no choice but to follow Islam. When Jesus came there were others who brought other messages, and got followers but many did not last. There was also the teachers of the Law of Moses, so ther was choice for the people; they could stick with the Law of Moses as taught by the teachers, follow one of the many new teachers or follow Christ who taught about the kingdom of God and interpreted the law of Moses according to the 'Spirit', not the 'letter' as the Law teachers. The Law teachers focused on 'outward righteousness' (for approval and praise of Men)and not 'inward righteousness' (for God's approval). The Israelites had no choice under Moses; the people around Mohammed had no choice; the people around Jesus HAD CHOICE! 4.Both Moses and Muhammad brought laws for their people. But according to Christianity, Jesus did not bring any new laws. Matthew 5:17-18 states that Jesus said: "Think not that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets, but I have come to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Yes, Moses gave laws. The people saw supernatural manifestations. There was proof to them in those manifestations that God spoke to Moses. Mohammed brought Laws but I am not certain where those Laws came from. Jesus interpreted the Law that God gave Moses (which had been earlier proved by God showing his presence to the people with Moses), and his message was accompanied with mighty signs and wonders such as had never been seen before (proof that it came from God),and the OT already bore testimony that he Jesus would come in the power of God; and the Spirit of God within us today testifies that Jesus was sent from God! Jesus ministry fulfills the requirement of The TRUTH BEING ESTABLISHED AT THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES! JESUS DID NOT BRING ANY NEW LAWS BECAUSE THE LAWS ARE ALREADY WRITTEN IN OUR HEARTS! We find witness to the Law in our hearts in the Bible (the word of God), and the Spirit of God! Again those Laws fulfill the requirement of two or three witnesses! 5.Both Moses and Muhammad died natural deaths. But Christians believe that Jesus was crucified. So in this manner, Jesus and Moses are different, and Muhammad and Moses are similar. Moses grave was not known to the people, he died in the mountain in God's care. He prepared the people for his death and appointed JOSHUA to take his place. Mohammed died as a result of poisoning and his grave is known and still occupied. I do not know if he got the chance to prepare the people or chose someone to lead the people. Jesus died and resurrected, his tomb is not occupied. He prepared his disciples for his death and the HOLY SPIRIT is the one who led them (and continues to lead Christians) in his death. In this respect, Mohammed is not like Moses, or Jesus! 6.Both Moses and Muhammad established governments. Moses and Muhammad became the rulers over their people. They had executive powers over their people. But Jesus did not. Jesus tells us that his Kingdom in not of this world. His kingdom is not an earthly one governed by an earthly system, rather, it is a spiritual one governed by spiritual laws (the ones written in our hearts and testified to by the Spirit of God) which we apply to our lives to bring our flesh in subjection to the Spirit of God so that we can be part of that Spiritual Kingdom; If we are part of his Kingdom, we will be part of it when he comes to reign on earth in the power of God! Jesus reign/kingdom will have no end because it is of God (Spirit); Moses and Mohammed's reign ended because they had 'executive' powers that could do nothing for the 'Spirit'. 7.Both Moses and Muhammad had an exodus. Moses led his people to freedom from Egypt to Palestine, and this migration was called the Exodus. Muhammad led his away from the oppression of the people of Mecca to Medina, and this migration was called the Hijrah. Both events were major episodes in the histories of these two great prophets. Yes, Moses led an Exodus. You tell me that Mohammed led an Exodus. Jesus is still leading his Exodus - the migration of man from the 'Law of sin and death' to the 'Spirit of Life'. By virtue of the work of our salvation accomplished by his death on the cross and his resurrection, anyone who accepts him as Lord and Saviour is freed from the spiritual 'Pharoah' of a life of sin a reward of eternal death and migrated into the 'promised land' of a life that glorifies God and eternal life. The exodus of Moses and Mohammed ended ages ago, but that of our Lord Jesus Christ is still ongoing and the opportunity is still open for those who are still 'unsaved' to join Christ's 'Noah's ark' so that they don't lose their lives in the coming 'Flood' of God's judgement. [b]Jesus did not need to use the word 'say'. He is the 'word of God' who was there at the creation of the world. He is the same as the Father and therefore does not need to use the word 'say'(in the context which you refer to). Jesus was the Message! There is no confusion about 'the Spirit of Truth' that Jesus referred to: John 14: 16-17 16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. From verse 17: a.The world cannot receive the spirit of truth. Why? Because the world DOES NOT SEE HIM as he is invisible. THE HOLY SPIRIT cannot be seen but he can be felt. b. Again the world cannot receive the spirit of truth because they do not know him. Why don't they know him? We can find the answer below: John 14: 6 -9 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? If you do not know Jesus, you cannot know the father (God)! The spirit of the father is 'the spirit of truth'. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father. If you do not know Jesus, you cannot know the father, and therefore, you will not know the spirit of the father, and you will not accept the spirit of the father which is 'the spirit of truth' and the 'another comforter' referred to in John 14:16. The last part of John 14:17 explains 'KNOWS THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH' and these are those IN WHOM THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH DWELLS. Jesus told the disciples that 'they knew the spirit of truth because it dwelt in them'. The only reason the disciples knew the spirit of the truth was because 'THEY KNEW AND ACCEPTED JESUS'. It therefore only follows that it is ONLY THOSE WHO KNOW AND ACCEPT THE LORD JESUS THAT HAVE 'THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH' DWELLING IN THEM. From the above, there is no place for Mohammed in the equation. In John 14, following Jesus sayings, certain things were to preceed the 'receiving of the 'another comforter (the spirit of truth)'. John 14: 11 - Believing that Jesus is in the Father and that the Father is in Jesus; John 14:12 - keeping Jesus commandments. From the above, you will not personally receive the 'another comforter (the spirit of truth)' if you do not believe in Jesus and if you do not keep Jesus commandments. I can therefore confidently say that Mohammed is not the 'another comforter' or the Spirit of truth based on the aforementioned and the following: a. When I accepted Jesus, Mohammed did not start dwelling in me, which I believe is also the case with other Christians. b. The Spirit of Truth is to remind of what Jesus taught but we clearly see that Mohammed's commandments are very different from what Jesus taught. A very good example is that of the 'adulterous woman' in John 8. Jesus said that anyone who was without sin should cast the first stone, and nobody could, because all men have sinned; Islam however, commands the stoning of Adulterers. Mohammed's teachings does not remind us of what Jesus taught as Jesus says 'go and sin no more; but Islam says 'Kill her, she is a sinner' and robs that creation of God the opportunity to reconcile with his/her maker. c.Jesus commands to love him, and loving him, I also love the 'Spirit of truth'. Islam does not allow you to love Jesus but persecutes those who love Jesus instead. As the spirit of truth comes as an extension of loving Jesus, it cannot therefore be Mohammed, since Islam teaches that followers of Jesus are 'infidels'. If muslims are not 'infidels' because they do not love Jesus and keep Jesus' commandments, they cannot have the Spirit of Truth because it only comes by loving Jesus and keeping Jesus commandments. If you keep Jesus commandments, you cannot keep Mohammed's commandments because they are not the same. To love Jesus and keep his commandments, and have the spirit of truth, you have to be an 'infidel' in the eyes of Islam. Under the old dispensation, the Spirit of God rested on specific people chosen by God; under the new dispensation, the Spirit of truth (the spirit of God, the Holy Spirit) rests on ALL who love and accept Jesus. All the fruits, gifts and knowledge of the Spirit of truth became fully Manifested when Jesus left. The Bible does not use the word 'spirit to mean 'prophets'. The word prophet in the scripture below was there for a reason. 1 John 4:1-3 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits to see if they are from God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." The reason is because prophets speak by the 'spirit', and you need to test that the 'spirit' by whom the prophet is speaking is 'of God' and not 'of the devil'. In John 14:6, Jesus said he was THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE; and in John 14:30 Jesus talked about the 'prince of this world that had nothing of Jesus ' that was coming. Mohammed came after Jesus and his teachings have nothing of Jesus, therefore we can conclude that MOHAMMED IS NOT THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE; and that he is A MANIFESTATION OF 'THE PRINCE OF THIS WORLD' that Jesus talked about. Mohammed does not glorify Jesus; If he glorified Jesus, his followers would glorify him and love those who love him. The followers of Mohammed persecute those who love Jesus. You cannot glorify someone you hate; You will glorify someone you love. If Mohammed did indeed glorify Jesus, then Mohammed's followers are making a huge mistake in not glorifying and loving Jesus. Anyone who loves and glorifies Jesus does so in deed(the way they live their lives) by keeping Jesus' commandments, not just in words (reading or writing it in a book and leaving it there). [/b] |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by Atk1nson(m): 5:30pm On Nov 17, 2010 |
@ lagos shia deut18:18 say d I will raise a prophet frm AMONG YOU. [Mohammed was not an Israelite,it was not him.Jesus was an israelite though] |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by seyibrown(f): 10:24pm On Nov 17, 2010 |
I hope post #43 clarifies the misconceptions in the topic as posted by LagosShia! |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by bashydemy(m): 5:27am On Nov 18, 2010 |
Atk1nson:well sometimes you guys never cease to amaze me, since the above post says i will raise a prophet among thee are you saying the prophet is yet to come? and again since Jesus was an Israelite and jew and God sent him to the lost sheep of israel not to the world then why disturb me to accept him as savior when he cannot save himself, Jesus was send to the lost sheep of Israel and Mohammad to the whole world and he is the #1 most influential man in the world even Jesus was in #3 |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by firebrand: 12:34pm On Nov 18, 2010 |
Seyibrown's post #43 puts an end to the debate. The similarity btw Moses and Jesus, if any can only be seen with spiritual insight and not the cock and bull story of how Moses got married and Jesus never married to any woman. Afterall if a father married 10 wives and a son decided to marry only one or even abstain from marriage does not make that son a bastard. For a carnal mind, the similarities are obvious as explained below. Valid similarity btw Moses and Jesus are as follows; 1. At the birth of Moses, King Pharaoh ordered the killings of all newly born male child and likewise King Herod ordered the killings of newly born male children at the birth of Jesus. This is a great similarity as both of them have to deliver their people from the bondage of oppression. Somebody else can confirm that for Muhammed. 2.Both ministries of Moses and Jesus are backed with signs and wonders. Miracles of highest dimensions were performed by the two of them. Somobody else can confirm that for Muhammed. 3. Moses led his people away from Egypt, to a new land and never return them back to the old land of Egypt while Christ also lead his followers to a new Jerusalem, which is paradise. I learnt Muhammed led some people away from Mecca and later came back to the same land to dwell there. This is contrary to the workings of God as it relates to salvation. Abraham was called to leave his country to another country and he never looked back. |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by Nobody: 12:43pm On Nov 18, 2010 |
Nigerians, arguing and cursing themselves about religions imposed on them by europeans and arabs. |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by LagosShia: 2:23pm On Nov 18, 2010 |
dankol: Here is your answer: (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: "We are sons of Allah, and His beloved." Say: "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay ye are but men,― of the men He hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)." (Holy Quran 5:18) |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by LagosShia: 3:02pm On Nov 18, 2010 |
seyibrown:madam "Seyi", “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"(mathew 7:3) dont think that your foul tongue and using insults as a means is what testifies to the truth.i know Jesus did not order you to insult people.you should inform the ones who taught you rudeness and told you to insult people to educate themselves first and open their empty heads for knowledge to enter and not declaring your so called "truth" based on blind faith.you are accusing others of "coconut heads" because those "coconut" heads have proof to counter your pagan beliefs infused by the romans.you can call me all you want but i will cling on to what is based on knowledge and fact and not blind faith.obedience with no understanding is blindness.i'd rather have knowledge to prove and know eveything than be driven with the zeal of blind faith. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 21 but test them all; hold on to what is good, you have no right to declare your religion the "truth" simply because your father or pastor says so.you have no right to declare it the "truth" simply because it is called "christianity".you have no right to declare it the "truth" because you follow that path. dont tell us what is the "truth",rather show us what is the "truth" and why we should follow it.if you cannot back up your beliefs with acceptable scripture and logic and reasoning your beliefs are a "dud cheque" bound to fail. you also display your plain and open open stupidity by thinking that only the followers of christianity knows God and others should "find Him".because we follow different faiths by no means i can i say you or a jew dont know God because you dont follow islam,regardless of your distorted belief about God.you can claim you have the "truth as i also believe i have the truth but your insult and imagination to monopolize God is plain stupidity.except if you think i worship the devil,which i dont.as for you,you dont even know who is God.i am not ready to seek,accept or follow 3 gods because that is not what Jesus preached.you do believe in the God with letter big "G" and i dont deny that,but your understanding of Him is deficient and sinful and you will be held accountable for that in the day of judegment. as for calling God in arabic,Allah,that is the language of the revelation so plain and simple which you deny.we are not obliged to call Him in any language with pagan roots.as for Jesus himself,you should find out what name he called God.you should also know that the word Allah is a semitic word from "EL" OR "AL" and the jews refer to Him as Elohim or Eloh or Elah.if that is biting you because the muslims are not a confused herd of sheeps you better learn to live by that because that will not change but as time goes people will only follow that path the more. "ALLAH" IN THE BIBLE":[/b]READ MORE AND EDUCATE YOURSELF: http://www.jamaat.net/name/name4.html you keep telling us and blowing breeze about your "truth" with no evidence.i have a simple request from you TO prove your "truth": prove to us from your bible,that Jesus is the begotten (not made) son of God" if you can. prove the "truth" if you can and not fool people that you have the "truth" WITH EMPTY MOUTH that you cannot prove or support with facts.prove your "truth" with authentic scripture and logic and reasoning.thats not so hard.if i have the truth and i can support it with facts and knowledge,i have every right to cling on to it stubbornly.you can call me whatever you LIKE.i am a proud "coconut head" for holding on to the truth firmly.as for the post you replied on deut. 18:18,i will examine it and refute it in pieces.now the challenge is prove to us from your bible that Jesus is the "begotten son" of God.do it if you can.and i will show you why he is not even in your bible.and then we will see who is more fitted to be called "coconut head" for the wrong reaons. |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by LagosShia: 3:07pm On Nov 18, 2010 |
seyibrown: firebrand: no sir! post 43 does not clarify anything.it is an attempt to evade the truth.because the others have not got the time to reply does not give you the right to be the judge.allow others to decide for themselves. |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by omoimole: 3:46pm On Nov 18, 2010 |
QUOTE “He has proven to you by the above that you have truth and lie together in the Bible. You wanna know the truth real the Quran, and why are you omoimole and you are a keferi? You opted out of Islam, leave Imole out of your name and say you are purely Keferi” REPLY Thank you for helping LagosShia in responding to my comment. I wish he will reply himself. Nevertheless the forum is open to all. So you are very free to respond to my post. QUOTE “He has proven to you by the above that you have truth and lie together in the Bible” REPLY Please kindly give at least five examples of these in each of the old and new testaments for our education. In addition, explain how you as a Muslim obeys the identified truths in the Bible. QUOTE To “You wanna know the truth real (read) the Quran” REPLY The Quran is not the source. You see the “truth” is not just what is written down or spoken, it is a Living Person! Jesus proclaims that “I (JESUS) am….the Truth” (John 14:6). He says in another place “You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free” (John 8:32) and just four verses later He says “If the Son, therefore, shall make you free, you shall be free indeed” (It is my heartfelt prayer that you will allow Jesus Christ to make you free. Believe me). Furthermore, what Jesus says, is not only the truth, it is Life itself. He says in John 6:63 “….the words I speak to you, they are spirit and they are life” QUOTE “…and why are you omoimole and you are a keferi? You opted out of Islam, (I WAS NEVER IN IT!) leave Imole out of your name and say you are purely Keferi” REPLY And why do I call myself “Omoimole”? It is because I am. Jesus not only said “I am the Light of the world” (John 8:12), He equally said that those who believe in Him are also “light of the world” (Mat. 5:14) and the Bible calls us “children of light” (1Thess.5:5). This is why I call myself Omoimole. You nicknamed yourself “Sweetnecta”. I absolutely have no problems with that. Even if you are ‘poisonous’, it is nobody’s business to say you should not call yourself what you have chosen to call yourself. Sweetnecta, do you know that some call themselves Stone, Wood, Black, Esubiyi, Shangoyemi, Jesutunbi, Mohammed, etc. I have chosen to call myself Omoimole, please let it be. We are in a free world. So what you say does not change that fact. As for being “purely keferi”, it is your opinion. To you as a Muslim, yes I am a “keferi” and by the grace of God, a very pure one for that matter. I believe in Jesus, the Jesus of the Bible and not the one portrayed in your Quran. If you call me a bastard, I know that I am not. I have a Father, He knows me and I know Him. He is with me all the time. He can become your Father too, if you let Him. He “gave” you, Sweetnecta, His Son, just as He did to me; and if you, Sweetnecta, “receives” Jesus Christ, you will have Life and will become a “child of God” (John 1:12, 3:16). JOHN 1 10 He came into the very world he created, but the world didn’t recognize him. 11 He came to his own people, and even they rejected him. 12 But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God. 13 They are reborn—not with a physical birth resulting from human passion or plan, but a birth that comes from God. QUOTE “Mary was married and remained virgin?Omoimole,you will let a virgin last 2 hours still a virgin, when everyone is gone? How many children Mary had for old man Joseph, except none?” REPLY Please, address the issue of who Abraham attempted to sacrifice: Ishmael or Issac? And where Jesus was born: under a tree or in a manger?. Your comment on “Joseph, the husband of Mary” was rather incoherent. It is not clear to me. I was not inferring to the “perpetual virginity” of Mary, but rather that Joseph was Mary’s husband and Jesus’s foster father. But know that Mary had other children through Joseph, after the birth of Jesus. She was never perpetually a virgin. Those who say so are in error. The Bibles says that Joseph “knew her not (did not have sexual intercourse with her) until she has brought forth her firstborn son” (Mat.1:25). You asked, “Omoimole, you will let a virgin last 2 hours still a virgin, when everyone is gone?”. I will by the grace of God. To be tempted is not a sin, to fall in temptation is. God is the one who grants power to overcome temptation. So I also ask you “Sweetnecta, you will let a virgin last 2 hours still a virgin, when everyone is gone?”. Isn’t sex ás sweet as nectar? ISSUE RAISED On Muslims and going to ‘hell’ first, before aljana, it is clear from Sura 19:65-72. REPLY You have the Quran, check it out and give me a feedback. [19:65] The Lord of the heavens and the earth, and everything between them; you shall worship Him and steadfastly persevere in worshipping Him. Do you know of anyone who equals Him? [19:66] The human being asks, "After I die, do I come back to life?" [19:67] Did the human being forget that we created him already, and he was nothing? [19:68] By your Lord, we will certainly summon them, together with the devils, and will gather them around Hell, humiliated. [19:69] Then we will pick out from each group the most ardent opponent of the Most Gracious. [19:70] We know full well those who are most deserving of burning therein. Everyone Sees Hell* [19:71] Every single one of you must see it; this is an irrevocable decision of your Lord (Allah). [19:72] Then we rescue the righteous, and leave the transgressors in it, humiliated. MUST YOU SEE HELL AND THEN PRAY THAT ALLAH WILL SOMEHOW COUNT YOU RIGHTEOUS TO BE RESCUED FROM THERE? THAT EVERY MUSLIM MUST SEE HELL FIRST, IS AN IRREVOCABLE DECISION OF ALLAH. I AM SURE YOU KNOW THAT MOHAMMED ALSO WAS NOT SURE OF SALVATION!!! BUT JESUS OFFERS YOU A BETTER DEAL. HEAR HIM IN JOHN 5:24: 24 “I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life. 6:38-40: 38 For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do my own will. 39 And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day. 40 For it is my Father’s will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day.” The Bible says no one is righteous, that all have sinned and fallen short of God’s righteous standards and demands. What God demands is 100% righteousness and no man can make it. So the person with 99% righteousness is as unqualified for heaven as the person with 1% righteousness. This is why God decided to make getting to Heaven FREE OF CHARGE to ALL, while Jesus paid for it. Who will not be happy to be relieved of a heavy, dragging load?. Sweetnectar, you self-righteousness will not do. The Bible calls our self-righteousness ‘filthy rag’ (Isa. 64:6): 6. We are all infected and impure with sin. When we display our righteous deeds, they are nothing but filthy rags…. ISSUE RAISED Is it true that Mohammed married a juvenile? “It is false. If you know a juvenile that he (AS) married (RA), give me her name and her birth date relative to the advent of his prophethood. This way, you can establish a time line from which we can argue upon. REPLY On Mohammed marrying an underage: it is true, sir, very true. Her name was Aishat. She was 6 or 7 when she was giving in marriage to Mohammed. The marriage itself was consummated when she was 9 or 10. Check the ref below from Wikipedia: Aisha was initially betrothed to Jubayr ibn Mut'im, a Muslim whose father, though pagan, was friendly to the Muslims. When Khawlah bint Hakim suggested that Muhammad marry Aisha after the death of Muhammad's first wife (Khadijah bint Khuwaylid), the previous agreement regarding marriage of Aisha with ibn Mut'im was put aside by common consent.[6] British historian William Montgomery Watt suggests that Muhammad hoped to strengthen his ties with Abu Bakr;[6] the strengthening of ties commonly served as a basis for marriage in Arabian culture.[7] According to the traditional sources, Aisha was six or seven years old when she was engaged to Muhammad and nine when the marriage took place.[6][8][9] American historian Denise Spellberg states that "these specific references to the bride's age reinforce Aisha's pre-menarcheal status and, implicitly, her virginity."[8] This issue of her virginity was of great importance to early historians who supported the Abbasid Caliphate. These historians considered that as Muhammad's only virgin wife, Aisha was divinely intended for him, and therefore the most credible regarding the debate over the succession to Muhammad.[8] Aisha stayed in her parents' home for several years until she joined Muhammad and the marriage was consummated.[6][8][9][10][11][12] Most of the sources indicate that she was nine years old at the time, with the single exception of al-Tabari, who records that she was ten.[8] The marriage was delayed until after the Hijra, or migration to Medina, in 622; Aisha and her older sister Asma bint Abi Bakr only moved to Medina after Muhammad had already migrated there. After this, the wedding was celebrated very simply. The sources do not offer much more information about Aisha's childhood years, but mention that after the wedding, she continued to play with her toys, and that Muhammad entered into the spirit of these games.[1 There are other references, but this will do for lack of space. QUOTE “Jesus himself criticized the Jews not following the old testament” REPLY –Yes, He criticized the Jews (people), not the old testament (the writing)! Haba! They did not follow the word of God in the Old Testament. There disobedience did not change the word of God! Are Muslim not also criticized by their preachers for not obeying their Quran? QUOTE “He did not quote the whole testament” REPLY Are you saying “whole” or did you mean ‘old’? Jesus did not need to quote the entire testament to make His point. But He certainly quoted several passages of the Old Testament in His ministry. QUOTE “actually declared that the pen of the scribes have written what is not true, as to indicate corruption in the OT, the reason he was redirecting them to truth” REPLY Which scribes were being referred to by Jesus? And what is that which they have written? No, Jesus did not actually declare that “the pen of the scribes have written what is not true”. The scribes He was referring to were the scribes, who were the teachers of the Law (the Old Testament) of His time, and NOT, the prophets who were the writers of the testament. These contemporary scribes MISINTERPRETED the Old Testament and taught the people so! This was Jesus’s quarrel with them. Please, read e.g. Matthew 23. Therefore, contrary to what you want us to believe, Jesus was not indicating corruption of the Old Testament, RATHER, He was exposing the corrupt interpretation and practices endorsed by many of these scribes. I have talked about the subject of ‘truth’ above. The truth that Jesus was redirecting the people to was, not just what He said, or the truth of the Old Testament which He affirmed, but to Himself as the one who fulfilled ALL the demands of the Old Testament in word and deed. QUOTE “You have already by your 400 years defended the Quran” REPLY Smart guy, how have I done that? QUOTE “Jesus did not speak about the place he was born” REPLY No, He did not and why should He? Did He need to and He refused? It was not recorded that anyone asked Him. The Bible made both the town and place of childbirth clear though: Prophetically in Micah 5:2 (Old Testament): But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, are only a small village among all the people of Judah. Yet a ruler of Israel will come from you, one whose origins are from of old, from evalasting. Historically, in fulfilment of this prophesy in Luke 2:1-7 (New Testament) 1 At that time the Roman emperor, Augustus, decreed that a census should be taken throughout the Roman Empire. 2 (This was the first census taken when Quirinius was governor of Syria.) 3 All returned to their own ancestral towns to register for this census. 4 And because Joseph was a descendant of King David, he had to go to Bethlehem in Judea, David’s ancient home. He travelled there from the village of Nazareth in Galilee. 5 He took with him Mary, his fiancée, who was now obviously pregnant. 6 And while they were there, the time came for her baby to be born. 7 She gave birth to her first child, a son. She wrapped him snugly in strips of cloth and laid him in a manger, because there was no lodging available for them. On the other hand the Quran (written 600 years later) says in Sura 19:22-33: The Birth of Jesus [19:22] When she bore him, she isolated herself to a faraway place. [19:23] The birth process came to her by the trunk of a palm tree. She said, "(I am so ashamed  I wish I were dead before this happened, and completely forgotten."[19:24] (The infant) called her from beneath her, saying, "Do not grieve. Your Lord has provided you with a stream. [19:25] "If you shake the trunk of this palm tree, it will drop ripe dates for you. [19:26] "Eat and drink, and be happy. When you see anyone, say, `I have made a vow of silence [to the Most Gracious]*; I am not talking today to anyone.' ' [19:27] She came to her family, carrying him. They said, "O Mary, you have committed something that is totally unexpected. [19:28] "O descendant of Aaron, your father was not a bad man, nor was your mother unchaste." The Infant Makes a Statement [19:29] She pointed to him. They said, "How can we talk with an infant in the crib?" [19:30] (The infant spoke and) said, "I am a servant of GOD. He has given me the scripture, and has appointed me a prophet. [19:31] "He made me blessed wherever I go, and enjoined me to observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and the obligatory charity (Zakat) for as long as I live. [19:32] "I am to honor my mother; He did not make me a disobedient rebel. [19:33] And peace be upon me the day I was born, the day I die, and the day I get resurrected." (This is interesting, I thought you guys said Jesus did not die. Some of you say He fainted …….and later fled to Kashmir (Ahmadiya / Deedat stuff). Discussion for another time?) Sweetnecta, you cleverly dodged this area QUOTE “nor did he speak about the sons of Abraham and which one of them was to be slaughtered” REPLY No, Jesus talked about Abraham and Isaac e.g. in Mat.22:31-32 below: 31 “But now, as to whether there will be a resurrection of the dead—haven’t you ever read about this in the Scriptures? Long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died, God said,* 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’* So he is the God of the living, not the dead.” Jesus knew already, that the Old Testament recorded that it was Isaac that was to be sacrificed by Abraham typifying what and how God would also do to Him, Jesus in the future to be “the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the whole world”, (including your sins and mine), as John the Babtist testified in John 1:29. QUOTE “By the way, Jews used to make Hajj” REPLY So what? Sweetnectar, this is not the issue before us. I have no business with that. And that they did so “according to the calling of Abraham” – This must be in your Koran, not in the Bible. QUOTE “please research it” REPLY That Jews make Hajj? I wont. It is irrelevant to our discussion. QUOTE “Now why would the Jews make Hajj and slaughter animals in Makka? REPLY Direct the questions to interested Jews. On the other hand, God gave them the system of offering sacrifices in the Old Testament from Genesis to Deuteronomy. All pointing to the Ultimate Sacrifice after which there should be no more sacrifice: ISAIAH 53 (700 years before Christ) 1. Who has believed our message? (SWEET NECTAR, PLS BELIEVE) To whom has the Lord revealed his powerful arm? 2. My servant grew up in the Lord’s presence like a tender green shoot, like a root in dry ground. There was nothing beautiful or majestic about his appearance, nothing to attract us to him. 3. He was despised and rejected— a man of sorrows, acquainted with deepest grief. We turned our backs on him and looked the other way. He was despised, and we did not care. 4. Yet it was our weaknesses he carried; It was our sorrows* that weighed him down. And we thought his troubles were a punishment from God, punishment for his own sins! 5. But he was pierced for our rebellion, crushed for our sins. He was beaten so we could be whole. He was whipped so we could be healed. 6. All of us, like sheep, have strayed away. We have left God’s paths to follow our own. Yet the Lord laid on him the sins of us all. 7. He was oppressed and treated harshly, yet he never said a word. He was led like a lamb to the slaughter. And as a sheep is silent before the shearers, he did not open his mouth. 8. Unjustly condemned, he was led away.* No one cared that he died without descendants, that his life was cut short in midstream.* But he was struck down for the rebellion of my people. 9. He had done no wrong and had never deceived anyone. But he was buried like a criminal; he was put in a rich man’s grave. 10. But it was the Lord’s good plan to crush him and cause him grief. Yet when his life is made an offering for sin, he will have many descendants. He will enjoy a long life, and the Lord’s good plan will prosper in his hands. 11. When he sees all that is accomplished by his anguish, he will be satisfied. And because of his experience, my righteous servant will make it possible for many to be counted righteous, for he will bear all their sins. (Sweetnectar, He is waiting for you) 12…….He bore the sins of many and interceded for rebels. QUOTE “But we can all read. Did brother LagosShia say something that was not in the Bible, already?” REPLY Yes, we can read. Even the devil does. He quotes the Bible too, even to Jesus! Cultists, mystics, Hindus, atheists, evolutionists, Muslims, etc read the Bible. They all have chosen to ignore its truth ISSUE RAISED About similarities in relation to Moses, Jesus and Mohammed. REPLY Jesus stands out unequal. You see him ‘hidden’ in the Old Testament and revealed in the New. Reference is made to Him directly and indirectly in the Old Testament. Jesus is the Message in the entire Bible. QUOTE “Jesus promised nothing to the Christians” REPLY On the contrary He did, so many times. Examples abound. JOHN 14 1 “Don’t let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God, and trust also in me. 2 There is more than enough room in my Father’s home.* If this were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you?* 3 When everything is ready, I will come and get you, so that you will always be with me where I am” ……. 6 Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. 7 If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is.* From now on, you do know him and have seen him!” ………, 12 “I tell you the truth, anyone who believes in me will do the same works I have done, and even greater works, because I am going to be with the Father. 13 You can ask for anything in my name, and I will do it, so that the Son can bring glory to the Father. 14 Yes, ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it! Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit 15 “If you love me, obey* my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate,* who will never leave you. 17 He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth. The world cannot receive him, because it isn’t looking for him and doesn’t recognize him. But you know him, because he lives with you now and later will be in you.* 18 No, I will not abandon you as orphans—I will come to you. 19 Soon the world will no longer see me, but you will see me. Since I live, you also will live. 20 When I am raised to life again, you will know that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them. And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.” ……, 23 Jesus replied, “All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them. 24 Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me…, 25 I am telling you these things now while I am still with you. 26 But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative—that is, the Holy Spirit—he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you. 27 “I am leaving you with a gift—peace of mind and heart. And the peace I give is a gift the world cannot give. So don’t be troubled or afraid. 28 Remember what I told you: I am going away, but I will come back to you again. QUOTE “The Christians borrowed his name for a religion that he knew nothing about and did not sanction” REPLY No, we did not borrow His name from somewhere, Sweetnectar, His divine name is Emmanuel, which means ‘God with us’ (Isa. 7:14 and Mat.1:22,23), 22 All of this occurred to fulfill the Lord’s message through his prophet: 23 “Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel,*which means ‘God with us.’” while His human name is Jesus according to (Mat.1:24,25 and Luke 2:21): Matthew 1 24 When Joseph woke up, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded and took Mary as his wife. 25 But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus. Luke 2 21 Eight days later, when the baby was circumcised, he was named Jesus, the name given him by the angel even before he was conceived. |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by LagosShia: 5:26pm On Nov 18, 2010 |
@seyibrown post #43
Instead of admiting clearly that Moses was an ordinary man and you believe “Jesus is God” or a son of himself,as a fundamental reason why you cannot claim deut. 18:18 as a reference to Jesus,your words agree with the difference but you still maintain your claim.that is defeat #1 !!! No problem! Now you have being given another chance as my previous post indicate:prove to us from your very own bible that Jesus claimed he is the “begotten son” of God.
So basically what you are doing is to confirm the major differences between Moses and Jesus that were stated with your “yes,yes”,and then you imagine that you are actually refuting the point of difference or proving yourself right.you’re proving me right with your “yes,yes”.so in other words,the difference,a big difference,still exists and stands.in the above words of yours quoted,you even grouped Muhammad and Moses together at odds with Jesus.and then you still claim Jesus is “unto like Moses”!!! ridiculous. We just hope you can scratch your head well to prove your case and point to any undisputed similarity between Jesus and Moses.i am sure you cannot find anything to convince anyone.you may not even be able to convince yourself.
Do you want to deny the words of your own bible? Among the arabs,the hanifs,who did not worship idols are trace their monotheistic beliefs to Abraham and Ishmael existed but when Muhammad came they still followed him.but Jesus was not accepted by his own up to this day.to this day Jews don’t believe in Jesus.his own people rejected him.this is not from me.this is from the bible.so the arabs did have a choice when Muhammad came and Jesus was rejected by his own when he came to them! Your bible confirms it,see it: John 1:11 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Another YES.thank you for your confirmation! Muhammad’s grave is also known to the people to this day. Muhammad,like Moses,also prepared the people for his death.you can see his farewell sermon on the event of the farewell pilgrimage. Muhammad also appointed a successor (Imam Ali) to take his place and you can know that from no better muslim than myself being a shia-muslim.infact to convince you,the role of succession to Muhammad is what has divided the muslims into 2 branches,the shia and the sunni.so when you are talking to me,be sure to know that I believe he appointed Ali as his divinely chosen successor.infact even in sunni hadiths,there is a narration where Muhammad said the likeness of Ali,is like the relation of Moses to Aron (this refers to Aron succeeding Moses in the latter’s absence). Muhammad did not die from poison.only morons like you and the writer of a fabricated hadith could believe such thing.i have already refuted that.how can someone allegedly drink poison today and instead of dying,he dies more than 2 years later!!!if you want to believe Muhammad drank the poison and died 2 years later,you must accept that as a miracle.Muhammad was targetted at khaybar by a jewess but he did not eat from the poisoned meat at all.anyways,whether you believe he ate of did not eat,that is a miracle of Muhammad.if he ate,it did not kill him,and that is a miracle.if he did not eat because he knew there is poison in the meat,that is also miraculous.so suit yourself! No sane human being would believe that someone would eat poison today and die 2 years later and still believe that the cause of death is poison.
So the above is another “YES”,but this time an implicit and tactical “YES”.thanks again for the confirmation.the remain part is all blah,blah,blah not relevant to the topic.dont be shy to keep typing the “YES”!
Another “YES”-Muhammad and Moses are alike,Jesus is different.thanks again!with someone like you,I really have nothing to prove.you do the work for me!!! You simply have to keep in mind that both the laws of Muhammad and Moses are good enough to make you immigrate from sin to salvation.that does not make an excuse for why Jesus was different and had no kingdom to rule over. If you go to your bible (am just educating you),you will find that his followers expected him to drive the romans away and establish the “kingdom of God”,but he was unable and therefore failed to. Luke 19:11 11And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear Matthew 21:5-9 ( 5Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an backside, and a colt the foal of an backside. 6And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them, 7And brought the backside, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon. 8And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way. 9And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.
Blah,blah,blah.prove your righteouness with actions.not with words.if the exodus of your lord is still going on,am afraid but to state that he has failed.looking at the state of christians all over the world,your countries and where you dominated are the most morally decadent.dont feed me with words,show me your actions.
Jesus is the word of God.no doubt! But the word of God is not Jesus.Jesus is refered to as the “word of God” because Jesus himself is a product of that word “Be”! As for the comforter,you can never deny as evident from the bible that the Holy Spirit was present on earth and manifested itself to people before Jesus,during Jesus’ stay and after Jesus.so it is inconceivable and foolish to believe that the “comforter” prophesied by Jesus is the Holy Spirit.Jesus said “it is expedient that I go.for if I go not,the comforter will not come”!!!how can Jesus say if he did not go,the holy spirit will not come,when the holy spirit was present?are you saying Jesus did not know the identity of the holy spirit? A little further,the “comforter” is also identified as “the spirit of truth”.in John,it is said that you should “believe not every spirit” because “many false prophets have come”.in other words,a true spirit is a true prophet but .”spirit of truth” was used as an alternative name to “true prophet”.the spirit that confirms that Jesus came in flesh is true.this has already being explained in my first post (the thread opener). 1 John 4:1-2 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: In history it is only Muhammad,that have come as a prophet and confirmed Jesus as true.not only that Muhammad,believed Jesus was man and came in flesh as the prophecy dictates.Muhammad,unlike the christians,does not believe Jesus is a spirit or a god.
Are you denying the bible?are you resorting to lies or hallucinations?are you saying that the holy spirit was not present and people did not receive it nor feel its effect?are you saying people did not know the holy spirit?ofcourse that is all what you said in the above.but the bible proves you wrong! Luke 1:15 15For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. Luke 1:35 35And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Luke 2:25-26 25And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. 26And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ The above are just a few.do you still want to deny that the Holy Spirit was not present? Have you forgotten that Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit as you believe?did not people see and feel its effect? liars!!!
In the above equation there is no place for you. You claim the “truth”.the above are your claims.they are not proofs for your claims.they are mere claims.to prove the truth you need facts and logic and reasoning.you can believe you have the the “truth” and so do i.nothing changes.there is no way you or even the pope or any of your pastors is better than I am in the spiritual sense.they are even far from the spirit of God.your craze of speaking “in tongues” what you don’t understand or your fake miracles don’t make any difference.according to the bible,even false prophets can perform miracles. Matthew 24:24 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. As for Jesus,muslims believe he is true and in his days he was the best to follow.the same applies for all prophets including Moses and Muhammad.every prophet is the only way to God.we know that. And stop bringing up irrelevant issues just for you to blab and preach.we didn’t ask for that. The above is really true.but unfortunately you are the one saying it and yet doing the opposite.you don’t follow the commandments yourselves.you are the ones that eat pork,drink wine,many of you are not circumcised and Paul deem that unnecessary.you do some many things contrary to the commandments and you expect the muslims who follow the commandments to follow your footsteps with empty words. In john 14,Jesus uses 12 masculine pronouns of “he and him”.you use “it” as evident in the bible when refering to any spirit.the use of 12 masculine pronouns and the actions the “comforter” is to do after Jesus only convinces one that this “comforter” must be a visible and live man,and not some sort of an invisble spirit who is claimed by each and every of the conflicting denominations of christianity!!!bring me one example from the bible where a spirit is refered to as a male!!! John 16:7-15 7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. 12I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 1.) Jesus must go for the “comforter” to come.while the holy spirit was already there. 2.) He will reprove the world of sin,and of righteousness and of judgement.it is only in islam that you are judged and punished for committing a sin like adultery.in christian countries adultery and fornication is called “freedom”! 3.) He will guide into all truth.only islam claims to be the final and absolute revelation of God and the complete religion.it is only the Quran that says: "This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion."(holy Quran 5:3) 4.) He shall not speak of himself but whasoever he shall hear that he shall speak.each and every surah of the Holy Quran speaks in the name of God and starts with”in the Name of God,Most Merciful,Most Gracious”. 5.) He shall shew you things to come.there is not one prophecy in the Quran of of Muhammad that is false.all the prophecies of the Quran over a dozen are not false unlike the prophecies of the New Testament.i already started a thread about the “false prophecies of the new testament”. 6.) He shall glorify Jesus.only Muhammad,as a prophet, accepts the virgin birth and honors Jesus,as a prophet of the One True God.the jews,Jesus’ own people rejects him. I can therefore confidently say that Muhammad is the “another comforter” or the “spirit of truth” based on the above.even the use of “another”,points to someone who is like Jesus.Jesus is the “other one”.Muhammad is “another one”.simple language that you cant understand and you claim all kind of spirits in your head!!! So you take that as a literal meaning?no comment!!! The problem is you don’t understand your scripture.Jesus had no political power to execute anyone.the jews were testing him.they wanted to see if Jesus would pass judgement to execute someone.if Jesus would have done that,then they would set him up with the roman authority.if he also says no one should touch her,then they will say he is not upholding the law.they wanted to put him in a dilemma but Jesus was smarter.he threw the ball back into their court!!! But just to show that Jesus too was not all the meeky-meeky you portay him,you can check. Jesus also says: THE 'VERSES OF FIRE AND DIVISION': Luke 12:49-52 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. AND OFCOURSE 'THE VERSE OF THE SWORD': Matthew 10:34 34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
When you think Jesus=his followers,you are truly suffereing from some sort of a mental disorder.you may as well tell God that if any christian is sent to hell.you do not love Jesus.if you love Jesus you will obey his teachings.he never said he is God.but you take him for God.the devil has misled you.
Do I even need to answer the above? I believe people have eyes to see what kind of people you are.and when you say “all”,do you mean all including catholics,jehovah’s witnesses,baptists etc?when you are saying “all”,I get the idea of “all” except muslims!isnt it?lol Because for example jehovah’s witnesses don’t believe in trinity (3 gods),they only believe in 2 gods (Jehovah and Jesus;the holy spirit is knocked out)!!!so will all go to heaven?
Are you playing with your own head? The verse is right under our eyes and you’re still telling us the opposite.this is how christians are taught to believe-the opposite of what they read.if we are to understand that a prophet is the “spirit of truth” because they talk the truth,are we not also justified to believe that Jesus refered to the prophet to come as “the spirit of truth” because he will speak the truth?have I not pointed that the holy spirit was already there and therefore Jesus was not talking about it?not only that,you accept they are called “spirit” for a reason,and you still tell us “prophet” is not the spirit refered to by Jesus.well,for your information,if we to go back to the greek,the word used in the prophecy is “peryclytos” and doesnt either mean “the holy spirit”.”periclytos” can best be related to “advocate” or “the praised one (ahmad)”.
We hate you because you don’t follow Jesus.you are the follower of Paul and roman pagan beliefs.you got nothing to do with Jesus. You are accusing us of hating Jesus.i don’t blame you.you are blind.if you know what that means you would not have said that.if we deny Jesus and call him a fake prophet and an illegitimate child,an illegitimate offspring of a roman soldier that pregnated Mary,as the jews accuse Jesus,you could have said we hate him.if we tried to kill him as the jews,and you believe they “crucified” him,you can accuse us of hate.but we believe in him for what he truly is:a messenger of God and a honored prophet born of a virgin.and here we have you accusing us of hate because we tell you to “cool down and open your head and stop elevating him to the status of God” because that is blasphemy and even Jesus preached One God and rejected to worship the devil on the basis and reason that only God deserves to be worshipped. You’re such a loser to bring up so much blah,blah that is not related to the topic and does not even make sense.you’re just wasting my time. [quote][/quote] |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by omoimole: 6:38pm On Nov 18, 2010 |
QUOTE i know Jesus did not order you to insult people REPLY True. Sorry, for feeling insulted. QUOTE not declaring your so called "truth" based on blind faith REPLY LagosShia we live by faith and not by sight. The Bible says ‘the just shall live by faith’ and that we are ‘fools for Christ’s sake’. But we know that the ‘foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of men’ and in fact the ‘wisdom of God is foolishness to men’ QUOTE have proof to counter your pagan beliefs infused by the romans. REPLY The root of Christianity preceded any ‘roman’ infusion. Ultimately Christianity is in essence, not a religion or organised church, but a RELATIONSHIP, a family relationship. Remember, the Lord’s pattern prayer, “Our Father in Heaven……, ’’. God calls us ‘my little chilren’. QUOTE i will cling on to what is based on knowledge and fact and not blind faith. obedience with no understanding is blindness. i'd rather have knowledge to prove and know eveything than be driven with the zeal of blind faith. REPLY Sorry, LagosShia we can’t prove anything. We can only tell the ‘foolish’ story given us. It is God who will prove Himself to you. Even if we manage to convince you, we can’t convert you. It is the business of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said: 7 But in fact, it is best for you that I go away, because if I don’t, the Advocate* won’t come. If I do go away, then I will send him to you. 8 And when he comes, he will convict the world of its sin, and of God’s righteousness, and of the coming judgment. 9 The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in me. 10 Righteousness is available because I go to the Father, and you will see me no more. 11 Judgment will come because the ruler of this world has already been judged. Please, this Spirit is not Mohammed, as you think. QUOTE 1 Thessalonians 5:21 but test them all; hold on to what is good, REPLY Yes, but what is to be tested (essentially doctrine) and how is the testing done? By science? By the Quran? It was not yet in existence! No. The test is against the written word of God and the Revelation of Jesus Christ, the Light and Truth and by the Holy Spirit. 1 John 2:26-27: 26 I am writing these things to warn you about those who want to lead you astray. 27 But you have received the Holy Spirit,* and he lives within you (certainly this is not Mohammed), so you don’t need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit* teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true—it is not a lie. So just as he has taught you, remain in fellowship with Christ. QUOTE you have no right to declare your religion the "truth" simply because your father or pastor says so. you have no right to declare it the "truth" simply because it is called "christianity". you have no right to declare it the "truth" because you follow that path. dont tell us what is the "truth", rather show us what is the "truth" and why we should follow it. if you cannot back up your beliefs with acceptable scripture and logic and reasoning your beliefs are a "dud cheque" bound to fail. REPLY Sorry again LagosShia, the God of the Bible will show you. Jesus will reveal Himself to you. We know that: The Wisdom of God 18 The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God. 19 As the Scriptures say, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.”* 20 So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish. 21 Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. 22 It is foolish to the Jews, who ask for signs from heaven. And it is foolish to the Greeks, who seek human wisdom. 23 So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense. 24 But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles,* Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God’s weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength. 26 Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world’s eyes or powerful or wealthy* when God called you. 27 Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful. 28 God chose things despised by the world,* things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important. 29 As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God. 30 God has united you with Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God; he made us pure and holy, and he freed us from sin. 31 Therefore, as the Scriptures say, “If you want to boast, boast only about the Lord.”* QUOTE you also display your plain and open open stupidity by thinking that only the followers of christianity knows God and others should "find Him". because we follow different faiths by no means i can i say you or a jew dont know God because you dont follow islam, regardless of your distorted belief about God. you can claim you have the "truth as i also believe i have the truth but your insult and imagination to monopolize God is plain stupidity. except if you think i worship the devil,which i dont. as for you, you dont even know who is God. i am not ready to seek, accept or follow 3 gods because that is not what Jesus preached .you do believe in the God with letter big "G" and i dont deny that, but your understanding of Him is deficient and sinful and you will be held accountable for that in the day of judegment. REPLY We are not asking you to accept 3 gods. The Trinity is not 3 gods. God is known by faith. He is the one who will reveal Himself to you. The sun is 3 inseparable parts you know, with a body that no one can approach, and light and heat that proceed from it and reach us on earth. The Father is in ‘inapproachable light’, the Bible says. Jesus is the Light that came from the Father. The fire of God, the Holy Spirit, comes from the Father too. If you shut of sunlight, be sure its heat will find you where you are hiding. And yet you cannot separate the three. Just as the sun must not move near the earth, the Father would not, so He sent His Light to guide us and His Fire to empower, purify and comforts us. The sun in its tripartite inseparable nature supports physical life on earth. Spiritual life is ensured by the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. QUOTE as for calling God in arabic, Allah, that is the language of the revelation so plain and simple which you deny. we are not obliged to call Him in any language with pagan roots. as for Jesus himself, you should find out what name he called God. you should also know that the word Allah is a semitic word from "EL" OR "AL" and the jews refer to Him as Elohim or Eloh or Elah. if that is biting you because the muslims are not a confused herd of sheeps you better learn to live by that because that will not change but as time goes people will only follow that path the more. REPLY The Arabs before Mohammed were idolaters. When did the name of Allah appear? Before or with emergence of Islam? Was Allah being worshipped before Mohammed was born? Isn’t a relative of Mohammed (father or uncle) called Abdallah? And what does this name mean? Does it have any link with the name Allah? I am sure if you call God in your language He will hear you. QUOTE "ALLAH" IN THE BIBLE":[/b]READ MORE AND EDUCATE YOURSELF: http://www.jamaat.net/name/name4.html REPLY Thanks for the reference. Give me only 5 references in the Bible where ‘Allah’ is found and will talk about it. But even if Allah’s name is found there, the Bible says: Phil.2:5-11 5 You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. 6 Though he was God,*he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. 7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges*;he took the humble position of a slave*and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form,* 8 he humbled himself in obedience to God and died a criminal’s death on a cross. 9 Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor and gave him the name above all other names, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. QUOTE you keep telling us and blowing breeze about your "truth" with no evidence. i have a simple request from you TO prove your "truth": prove to us from your bible,that Jesus is the begotten (not made) son of God" if you can. prove the "truth" if you can and not fool people that you have the "truth" WITH EMPTY MOUTH that you cannot prove or support with facts. prove your "truth" with authentic scripture and logic and reasoning.thats not so hard.if i have the truth and i can support it with facts and knowledge, i have every right to cling on to it stubbornly. you can call me whatever you LIKE.i am a proud "coconut head" for holding on to the truth firmly. as for the post you replied on deut. 18:18,i will examine it and refute it in pieces. now the challenge is prove to us from your bible that Jesus is the "begotten son" of God. do it if you can. and i will show you why he is not even in your bible. and then we will see who is more fitted to be called "coconut head" for the wrong reaons. REPLY The evidence we have is the Bible which you don’t believe. God gave it to men so that when they read it they will believe it and He will respond to their desire to find Him. The Jews wanted signs. The Greeks wanted proofs, hard facts, etc just as you do. They got the gospel and Jesus as its focus instead. Some accepted, others rejected it. We can’t know God by mere reasoning, analysis or research except He reveals Himself to you. Beyond having mere knowledge of God He wants us relate to Him closer than we can do with any human or thing. He seeks our intimacy, not that He needs it or can’t do without us. No, but He wants us to be blessed and kept from the evil one. Jesus said in John: Chapter 6 43 But Jesus replied, “Stop complaining about what I said. 44 For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them up. 45 As it is written in the Scriptures,* ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. 46 (Not that anyone has ever seen the Father; only I, who was sent from God, have seen him.) ------- 61 Jesus was aware that his disciples were complaining, so he said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what will you think if you see the Son of Man ascend to heaven again? 63 The Spirit alone gives eternal life. Human effort accomplishes nothing. And the very words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But some of you do not believe me.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning which ones didn’t believe, and he knew who would betray him.) 65 Then he said, “That is why I said that people can’t come to me unless the Father gives them to me.” Chapter 7 16 So Jesus told them, “My message is not my own; it comes from God who sent me. 17 Anyone who wants to do the will of God will know whether my teaching is from God or is merely my own. 18 Those who speak for themselves want glory only for themselves, but a person who seeks to honor the one who sent him speaks truth, not lies. Chapter 14 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit 15 “If you love me, obey* my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate,* who will never leave you. 17 He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth. The world cannot receive him, because it isn’t looking for him and doesn’t recognize him. But you know him, because he lives with you now and later will be in you.* 18 No, I will not abandon you as orphans—I will come to you. 19 Soon the world will no longer see me, but you will see me. Since I live, you also will live. 20 When I am raised to life again, you will know that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them. And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.” 22 Judas (not Judas Iscariot, but the other disciple with that name) said to him, “Lord, why are you going to reveal yourself only to us and not to the world at large?” 23 Jesus replied, “All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them. 24 Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me. And remember, my words are not my own. What I am telling you is from the Father who sent me. KNOW JESUS, KNOW LIFE. NO JESUS, NO LIFE Jesus loves you, LagosShia. We love you too. |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by LagosShia: 7:04pm On Nov 18, 2010 |
omoimole: this is the answer below i gave on the same question (asked by another person) you asked above in post #8 "Dear "Firebrand", any verses quoted by me from the bible is not meant or intended to convince me but to convince those who take the bible as their sole and absolute authority and guide.the verses were therefore presented for your own pleasure". the bible generally,i or a muslim quotes it when talking to you because you do not believe in the Quran.you believe in the bible so it is an authority and proof over you.you have to abide by it and the statements recorded therein and attributed to Jesus .when the bible explicitly makes my case and supports islam,we simply are telling you to abide by your book and follow islam”.
i have replied to the above question in post # 38 and below is what i said: “the bible says Abraham was about to sacrifice his only son.Ishmael is older than Isaac.so there cannot be anytime Isaac was the only son.if u want to take or believe jewish supremacist argument or believe in blasphemy that the patriarch,Abraham had an illegitimate child and therefore Isaac is the legitimate first born and was the one to be sacrificed,i cannot say further but allow you to believe in such nonsense and blashemy.you are free.infact blasphemy and degrading the prophets of God isnt new since the bible is full of disgusting stories accusing men of God of the most heinous and shameful sins like adultery,incest and prostitution”. the 4 gospels of mathew,luke,mark and john which are believed to be accounts of the life of Jesus were written at least 300 years after Jesus.non of the writers the books are attributed to wrote the accounts themselves.and even if we are to accept for argument's sake that the names attributed to those books did write those books,it only would be fair and just to accept that those books were partially written by those 4 men.internal evidence from those 4 books show that the 4 men thsemlves could not have being the ones writing what is attributed to them.for example there is a verse where mathew is talking about mathew and not himself.example: Matthew 9:9 The Calling of Matthew 9 As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,” he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him. in the above one would clearly,plainly and logically expect that if it was mathew himself who wrote the above he would have said: "as Jesus went on from there,he saw me and my name is mathew, " let us also note that the four gospels have a pattern of inconsistent reporting.they report different versions of the same story and one like you believes that it is the same holy spirit that inspired all 4 men.yet they have different tales to the same story.you can best watch this clip by a former christian to understand what i am saying: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR73CnVXiSY the story of Jesus' birth cannot be proven beyond faith since there exist no third party record to the event aside from the two accounts of the bible and the Holy Quran.if you can prove through the means available that islam is the truth,you will believe what the Quran narrates.if you believe that christianity is your truth,you will believe what the new testament narrates.going by the record and available evidence,i will take what the Quran says anytime anyday.you dont have to simply accept that Jesus was born in bethlehem as the truth and the Quran therefore is wrong simply because that is what is written in the bible.the bible is your own authority and truth and not mine.from evidence not everything in the bible is true.from evidence,there is no error in the Quran.so you cannot say the Quran is wrong on what cannot be proven by a third party simply because what the Quran says does not agree with the bible about a story.that difference between the two books is also an evidence that the Quran was not copied from the bible. on other occassions where the Quran differs from the bible,the Quran has being proven right over the bible.take for instance: the bible refers to the ruler of egypt during the time of Joseph,the dreamer, as "the pharoah".the Quran refres to that same ruler during Joseph’s time as "the king of egypt".going by archaelogical and historic records (that is a third party evidence),there was no pharoah in the time of joseph because the pharoanic dynasty has not started ruling over egypt in Joseph's time.this is an example of the Quran’s accurate historical record in contrast to the bible’s error.this is just one instance where the Quran corrects and undo the error of the bible.this is an evidence that there is a greater mind above overlooking the Quran.you cant tell me Muhammad,as an illitrate or an ordinary man like the writers of the bible,has much knowledge.the outstanding record and signs of the Quran is clear proof that the book is of divine origin. on the birth of Jesus,the writers of the 4 gospels did not witness it.so how am i sure they are right.infact if you go through their accounts,you will still notice there are diffferences.that is to show that something is wrong somewhere. If the 4 authors of the 4 gospels can giving different and inconsistent reports and sometimes contradictory ones on the same story,how would I be sure they are not wrong also on the story of the birth of Jesus? That is not true.the account you maybe refering to is either misunderstood,unacceptable or it doesn’t exist at all.you can prove me wrong by providing the account.we have authentic account where the Prophet is not only sure about himself,but about others too. Again that is not correct.everyone (detined for eternal blssin) will pass by hell fire to see the punishment he has being saved from so that he maybe thankful;not that everyone will enter the fire.you will be made to witness what God has saved you from.
That is a lie.i have answered that in post #38 and this what I said: “aisha was not 9 years old when the Prophet married her.she was not less than 15 based on historical sources.these sources also put her age at 19 when the Prophet married her.the attempt to make her look so young was fabrication aimed to make Aisha seem so innocent and harmless.we know the reasons behind the attempt.” Both Christianity and islam cannot be from the same source if you are referring to the two books that each faith represents.the bible in particular has gone through many hands and the authors themselves are too many.it will also be right to say that the different books of the bible itself are not from the same source too!the bible has internal contradictions and opposites regarding the same issues,(take the inheritance of sin for example).therefore you cannot say all that is in the bible itself is from one source i.e. from God. As for the time factor,Jesus came 1300 years after Moses.Muhammad came 600 years after Jesus.whatever is to be learnt from the time factor,God alone in His infinite wisdom knows the reasons behind the plan.we can only speculate and guess,rightly or wrongly.otherwise,the time factor cannot and should not serve as a purpose for discrediting anyone.
When you say “Christian and jews own the bible”,one would definitely expect that both the Christians and jews have the same beliefs.you should be aware that the jews don’t believe in Jesus at all-not even as an ordinary prophet or righteous man.they reject him.in that case,I should also ask Christians who interprete old testament prophecies and claim them for Jesus to stop doing that because only the jews own the old testament.all the prophecies Christians find to prove Jesus’ coming are in the jewish old testament,and yet the jews themselves don’t have the eyes to see those prophecies as referring to Jesus just the way Christians see them. I also want to let you know that Christians and jews don’t have the same bible or book.jews do not believe at all in the new testament or the Christian bible. Also,let me tell you that even among you Christians,you don’t have the same book or bible.catholics have a bible of 73 books by different authors.protestant faiths have a bible of 66 books.so how do you explain these differences?i can only attribute them to confusion.these confusions are the reasons why you need islam and another prophet in the person of Muhammad for him to clear your doubts.and that is exactly what the Quran claims to do.it clarifies the issues you (Christians and jews) have fallen into doubt over them.for example if all jews were to become muslim,you will realize that all of them will have to accept and believe in Jesus. [b] O People of the Book(Jews and Christians)! there hath come to you Our Messenger, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary): there hath come to you from Allah a (new) Light and a perspicuous Book.― (15) Wherewith Allah guideth all who seek His good pleasure to ways of peace and safety, and leadeth them out of darkness, by His Will, unto the light,― guideth them to a Path that is Straight.(holy Quran 5:15-16) O people of the Book (Jews and Christians)! now hath come unto you, making (things) clear unto you, Our Messenger after the break in (the series of) Our Messengers, lest ye should say: there came unto us no bringer of glad tidings and no warner (from evil): but now hath come unto you a bringer of glad tidings and a warner (from evil): and Allah hath power over all things.(Holy Quran 5:19) Say: "O people of the Book(Jews and Christians)! Exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by― who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even Way.(holy Quran 5:77) [/b] |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by LagosShia: 7:11pm On Nov 18, 2010 |
@"omoimole" what you posted to me i have replied to you in post #55.what you replied to in post #54 was not a reply to you but to "seyibrown".so please allow seyibrown to reply.thanks. |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by LagosShia: 7:27pm On Nov 18, 2010 |
@omoimole let me only tackle one issue from post #54 you replied to me what was directed at seyinbrown.i am only tackiling one issue to demonstrate how lost you are like all christians:
1.) the name "Allah" was before the birth of Muhammad (sa).the arabs before Muhammmad were not all idolaters.search on wikipedia for the term "hanif".those hanifs worshipped Allah. 2.) check an arabic bible,your brothers in the middle east use and among them are the oldest living christians in the world from generations to generations.you will find in their arabic bible "Allah". 3.) you're not even sure if "Abdallah" was the prophet's uncle or father.and you expect me to reply to every nonsense. 4.) the name means "servant of Allah". 5.)Allah is the name of revelation and its root is semitic(arabic,hebrew and aramaic have the same language roots).the jews use "Eloh",in place of "Allah".see the link i presented you will gain insight and understand why muslims use the word "Allah".
that is the problem.until you see that your bible has constantly undergone changes and editing and re-editing,you will think everything in it is so genuine and pure.but that is not the case.open the link i gave you,you will see in it evidence where the word "Allah" or written as "Alah" in english appears in the bible and you will also know why that bible was hidden out of sight.there is a scanned page of that bible in the link i presnted to you.am sure you did not bother to read the link but you only take pleasure at replying and piling garbage for me to respond to and clear the mess.you keep replying without reading and you remain as you are without knowledge.i dont take joy at replying and replying to pointless arguments and nonsense really wastes my time and energy. so please take your time to read first before you reply me otherwise there is no need for me to respond to every nonsense. thanks. |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by LagosShia: 7:29pm On Nov 18, 2010 |
The unofficial page of Sheikh Ahmed Deedat's literature (Islam-Christianity Comparative Study): http://www.jamaat.net/deedat.htm |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by seyibrown(f): 8:52pm On Nov 18, 2010 |
LagosShia, Please accept Omoimole's post as answers to your post to mine. My response to your original posts addressed your misconceptions. It is for you to read and understand and then accept or reject my submissions! The only one things I need to add are: The above is really true.but unfortunately you are the one saying it and yet doing the opposite.you don’t follow the commandments yourselves.you are the ones that eat pork,drink wine,many of you are not circumcised and Paul deem that unnecessary.you do some many things contrary to the commandments and you expect the muslims who follow the commandments to follow your footsteps with empty words. Jesus taught that it is not what goes inside a man that defiles a man but what comes out of the man. He was saying that the food that a man eats does not make him unclean before God because the food is passed out as excreta; It is rather the thoughts that come from the inside of a man that make him unclean before God! When God finished creating all living things, 'Everything he created was good'. Christians do follow the teachings of Christ, Shia! The above is really true.but unfortunately you are the one saying it and yet doing the opposite.you don’t follow the commandments yourselves.you are the ones that eat pork,drink wine,many of you are not circumcised and Paul deem that unnecessary.you do some many things contrary to the commandments and you expect the muslims who follow the commandments to follow your footsteps with empty words. [b]Please stop making the mistake that Jews do not belive in Jesus, Many Jews do; God TV, for example, preaches Jesus broadcasts from Israel. Many Jews all over the world now realise that Jesus is the Messiah. About 'coconut heads': I used the term because it is one we all know. We know it is used to refer to someone who it is impossible to impart knowledge to because it just doesn't sink in. I felt the term was suitable given that even the simplest of passages (e.g Noah and his sons, 'another comforter') are read and turned upside down on their heads. The feigning of ignorance on a lot of matters also make it an accurate description. The hijack and diversion of intelligent post to senseless rantings which lack reason and logic also makes it an appropriate word to use. You will also agree that 'coconut head' is very mild and loving compared to the words like 'infidel' that I have seen used to describe xtians, Jesus, Jehovah, Yahweh and the Holy Spirit on here. Please bear with us, Shia! It has been a wonderful opportunity to be able to address your misconceptions.[/b] |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by LagosShia: 9:23pm On Nov 18, 2010 |
@ seyibrown whatever necessary to reply to omoimole i have replied.nothing new remains that ive not touched.but it is ridiculous that someone like you is talking about imparting "knowledge". i have replied thoroughly to all the nonsense you posted.anyway who wants to see the truth,will undoubtedly see it if he goes through the long replies i have posted treating all things point by point. i have posed a challenge to you that you should not tell me what is the truth,rather show me the truth and prove the truth by proving to me that Jesus is the "begotten son" of God from your bible.obviously you never saw that part because you dont read replies and you are scared to read and think. go ahead and prove that if you can.i am waiting for you to guide me to believe that Jesus is the "begotten son" of God."begotten"=not made. you claim the truth,knowledge and all the good in the world.you're the all-wise.now just prove to me the most basic of your christian faith.i'm not asking you to prove it from the Quran or history.i am asking you to prove it from your own bible if you can and truly believe that is the truth.go ahead, am waiting! show me where in the bible Jesus is the "begotten son" of God. thank you. |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by LagosShia: 9:49pm On Nov 18, 2010 |
@seyibrown
i dont blame you for your confusion.it is the book you regard as "holy".it confuses you even on the most common actions like on whether or not you should eat pork which is forbidden. Matthew 15:11 11 What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.” [/b] Jesus also says: Mathew 5:17-20 The Fulfillment of the Law 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. the law that Jesus is claiming to fulfill is telling you you should not eat pork: Leviticus 11:7-8 7And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. 8Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you. [b]now you have to choose:[/b]its either Jesus is having two mouths,or you have to accept that when Jesus said what you eat does not make you unclean,he was not refering to forbidden food under the law,but food that are permitted.therefore pork is still forbidden and you should not eat it and you must uphold all the law as Jesus states in mathew 5:17-20 and not set aside the least because you shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. the same goes on other commandment you are told not to do but christian still do it.so i hope you now know who is following the law and Jesus. |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by LagosShia: 9:54pm On Nov 18, 2010 |
i now know your problem,you are watching too much tv.those ones you see even if they are real,do not account for 1% of jews.in the days of Jesus,he had jewish followers.he himself is jewish.but collectively as a nation,the jews rejected him,except if you want to deny your bible which says:he came unto his own,but his own receive him not". |
| Re: Prophet Muhammad In The Bible by seyibrown(f): 9:59pm On Nov 18, 2010 |
@LagosShia now you have to choose:its either Jesus is having two mouths,or you have to accept that when Jesus said what you eat does not make you unclean,he was not refering to forbidden food under the law,but food that are permitted.therefore pork is still forbidden and you should not eat it and you must uphold all the law as Jesus states in mathew 5:17-20 and not set aside the least because you shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. I am happy that you search the Bible for the truth; I pray that one of these days, you find the truth! show me where in the bible Jesus is the "begotten son" of God. John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. Are you a happy lad now? |
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