Rashduct4luv:


So which school did he attend? And who were his teachers?

fortran12:

I have no idea but he has some education to be able to trade only if he was a failed merchant

Rashduct4luv:


Define failed merchant? Isn't this another lie from the stables of fortran12!

The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) used to eat from what he earned with his hands. When he was young, he worked as a shepherd. It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Allah never sent any Prophet but he tended sheep.” His Companions said: Even you? He said: “Yes. I used to tend them in return for qaraareet for the people of Makkah.”
Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2143.

Qareeraat refers to part of a dinar or dirham.

Can we ask the same thing of your Jesus too? How did he survive? Bring an evidence to show!

fortran12:


You seemed to miss the words "if only". He was a merchant at a point in his life whn he was working for his wife. So I said he must have had some education to succeed as a merchant or else he must have been a failed merchant if he did not. That is the meaning of my statement.

See how your quickly bring hadith as reference, whn i present evidence from the same author hope you will accept

Rashduct4luv:


You can't say something which can not be proven. Everyone has one form of education or another whether formal or informal.
Before you quote from authentic source then you still have to understand the context, usage, presence of other related text, etc.

You seem to run away from the Jesus part.

fortran12:


I did not know it was a question. The bible does not mention about it so i have no say about it. Good about th3 education part. So all th3 talk if Mohammed being illiterate and him bringing the Qur'an holds no water.

Rashduct4luv:


Hypocrisy is in your blood. And even if you see the truth you will overlook it.

Jesus grew from being a baby, suckled milk, became a toddler till he grew up. I am very certain Mary and Joe would teach him one or two things as is customary from child to parent especially in the Jewish context at that time till today.

Muhammad was unlettered. He couldn't read nor write. This does not mean he couldn't recognize currency and transact business! We have many of our parents/parents' parent who can't write letter "O" with the bottom of a bottle yet they were astute businessmen/women.

Continue to over-flog a clear matter.

fortran12:

Till whn could he not read or write? Did he ever read or write at any point?

Rashduct4luv:



Any evidence he read?

fortran12:

There was evidence he wanted to write

Rashduct4luv:


Who is Zayad?

Christianity is hard for unbelievers like us so how come Jesus wined and dinned with sinners in the Bible?

Our Prophet is unlettered cos you don't even know the meaning of illiteracy!

God doesn't die, weep, suck breast milk, need protection from evil, get circumcised, etc.

OfficialAPCNig:

That means you don't even know how your koran came about.

Zayad was the idiot that developed the original manuscript of koran 20 years after the death of mohammed.

It was developed after the battle of badr that killed most of the companion of mohammed. Zayad single handedly developed the manuscript relying on oral testimonies of people who memorized it during the time of mohammed over 20 years ago.

He also referenced some verses that were written on the bone of animals and caves.

A lot of verses were destroyed during the war and he couldn't include it.

In summary, written koran is the work of one man developed through oral tradition with 20 years apart.

That is why koran looks like a children rhyme and incoherent

Rashduct4luv:


How can Qur'an not be incoherent to you when you don't even understand the language of Jesus except Eli Eli Eli lama...

Where is the evidence for this to Zayad you claim to have singlehandedly written the Qur'an.

OfficialAPCNig:

If you are a moslem and you don't know about Zayad, then go and collect your kafri certificate

During the time of mohammed, koran was preserved through memorization and some written on caves and camel collar bones.

During the battle of badr, a lot of mohammed companions were massacred and different versions of memorized koran were already in circulation.

The caliph commissioned Zayad to compile koranic verses into manuscript so that it will be standardized and uniform.

This was done 20 years after the death of Mohammed.

Koran is the work of Zayad

Rashduct4luv:


Bring the evidence he wrote otherwise pens up!

fortran12:


The hadith of pen and paper quoted by bukari and Muslim and they are both sahih.
"Ibn `Abbas said, "When the ailment of the Prophet (ﷺ) became worse, he said, 'Bring for me (writing) paper and I will write for you a statement after which you will not go astray.' "

If he was not literate why asking for pen and paper to write?

Rashduct4luv:


Quote the Hadith in full

fortran12:

ok

Sahih Bukhari : Volume 7, Book 70, Number 573:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

When Allah's Apostle was on his death-bed and in the house there were some people among whom was 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, the Prophet said, "Come, let me write for you a statement after which you will not go astray." 'Umar said, "The Prophet is seriously ill and you have the Qur'an; so the Book of Allah is enough for us." The people present in the house differed and quarrelled. Some said "Go near so that the Prophet may write for you a statement after which you will not go astray," while the others said as Umar said. When they caused a hue and cry before the Prophet, Allah's Apostle said, "Go away!" Narrated 'Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was very unfortunate that Allah's Apostle was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise."

Rashduct4luv:


So what did he write?

fortran12:

the point is not what he wrote, its that he can write, so he is not unlettered as you claim.

Rashduct4luv:


Quote the Hadith in full

Rashduct4luv:


Of Cos i am not a moslem but a Muslim. I don't know what is wrong with you Paulinist.
You guys keep repeating same trash day in day out!

I will answer you fully again with evidences since you have no evidence except your shallow thinking. Just because the Bible has been proven to be written by about 40+men does not mean you should cast aspersion on the Qur'an.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) appointed a group of his companions who were trustworthy and knowledgeable to write down the revelation. They are known in their biographies as those who wrote down the Revelation, such as the four Caliphs, ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas, Mu’aawiyah ibn Abi Sufyaan, Zayd ibn Thaabit (not Zayad as you claim) and others – may Allaah be pleased with them all.

The Qur’aan continued to be preserved in the hearts of the Sahaabah who had memorized it, and on the skins and other materials until the time of the caliph Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq (may Allaah be pleased with him). During the Riddah wars many of the Sahaabah who had memorized the Qur’aan were killed, and Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him) was afraid that the Qur’aan would be lost. So he consulted the senior Sahaabah about compiling the Qur’aan in a single book so that it would remain preserved and would not be lost. He entrusted this mission to the chief of memorizers Zayd ibn Thaabit (may Allaah be pleased with him). Al-Bukhaari narrated in his Saheeh (4986) that Zayd ibn Thaabit (may Allaah be pleased with him) said:

Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq sent for me when the people of al-Yamaamah had been killed [i.e., a number of the Prophet's Companions who fought against the false prophet Musaylimah]. (I went to him) and found ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab sitting with him. Abu Bakr then said (to me), “ ‘Umar has come to me and said: ‘Casualties were heavy among the Qurra' of the Qur'aan (i.e. those who knew the Qur’aan by heart) on the day of the battle of al-Yamaamah, and I am afraid that more heavy casualties may take place among the Qurra' on other battlefields, whereby a large part of the Qur’aan may be lost. Therefore I suggest that you (Abu Bakr) order that the Qur’aan be collected.” I said to 'Umar, "How can you do something that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not do?" 'Umar said, "By Allah, this is something good." 'Umar kept on urging me to accept his proposal till Allaah opened my heart to it and I began to realize the good in the idea which 'Umar had realized." Then Abu Bakr said (to me). “You are a wise young man and we do not have any suspicion about you, and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). So search for (the fragmentary scripts of) the Qur’aan and compile it in one book." By Allah If they had ordered me to move one of the mountains, it would not have been heavier for me than this ordering me to compile the Qur’aan. Then I said (to Abu Bakr), "How can you do something that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not do?" Abu Bakr replied, "By Allaah, it is a good thing." Abu Bakr kept on urging me to accept his idea until Allaah opened my heart to that to which He had opened the hearts of Abu Bakr and 'Umar. So I started looking for the Qur’aan and collecting it from (what it was written on) palm stalks, thin white stones and also from the men who knew it by heart, until I found the last Verse of Soorat al-Tawbah with Abu Khuzaymah al-Ansaari, and I did not find it with anybody other than him. The verse is (interpretation of the meaning):

"Verily, there has come unto you a Messenger (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty...” [al-Tawbah 9:128] until the end of Soorat Baraa’ah (i.e., al-Tawbah).

Then the complete manuscript (copy) of the Qur’aan remained with Abu Bakr until he died, then with 'Umar until the end of his life, and then with Hafsah, the daughter of 'Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him).

The Sahaabi Zayd ibn Thaabit (may Allaah be pleased with him) knew the Qur’aan by heart but he was methodical in his confirmation; he would not agree to write down any verse until two of the Sahaabah testified that they had heard it from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

This Mus-haf (written copy of the Qur’aan) remained in the hands of the caliphs until the time of the Rightly-Guided Caliph ‘Uthmaan ibn ‘Affaan (may Allaah be pleased with him). The Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) had dispersed to different lands, and they used to recite the Qur’aan according to what they had heard of the seven recitations from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and each of their students used to recite according to what he had heard from his shaykh. If a student heard someone reciting in a manner different from what he knew, he would denounce him and accuse him of making a mistake, and this went on until the Sahaabah feared that there would be fitnah (trouble) between the Taabi’een and successive generations. So they thought that they should unite the people in following one recitation, which was in the dialect of Quraysh in which the Qur’aan had first been revealed, so as to dispel any disputes and resolve the matter. ‘Uthmaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) was consulted, and he agreed with this opinion.

Al-Bukhaari narrated in his Saheeh (4988) from Anas ibn Maalik that Hudhayfah ibn al-Yamaan came to ‘Uthmaan at the time when the people of Shaam (Syria) and the people of Iraq were waging war to conquer Armenia and Azerbaijan. Hudhayfah was alarmed by their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur’aan, so he said to 'Uthmaan, "O Ameer al-Mu’mineen! Save this nation before they dispute about the Book (Qur’aan) as the Jews and the Christians did before." So 'Uthmaan sent a message to Hafsah saying, "Send us the manuscript of the Qur’aan so that we may make copies of the Mus-haf and we will return the manuscript to you."

Hafsah sent it to 'Uthmaan. Then 'Uthmaan ordered Zayd ibn Thaabit, 'Abdullah ibn al-Zubayr, Sa’eed ibn al-‘Aas and ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Haarith ibn Hishaam to copy out the manuscripts. 'Uthmaan said to the three men who were from Quraysh (the tribe of which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was a member), “In case you disagree with Zayd ibn Thaabit on any point in the Qur’aan, then write it in the dialect of Quraysh, for the Qur’aan was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthmaan returned the original manuscripts to Hafsah.

'Uthmaan sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'aanic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt.

Ibn Shihaab said: Khaarijah ibn Zayd ibn Thaabit told me that he heard Zayd ibn Thaabit say: “When we made copies of the Mus-haf I missed a verse of al-Ahzaab that I used to hear the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) recite. So we searched for it and we found it with Khuzaymah ibn Thaabit al-Ansaari. (The verse was) ‘Among the believers are men who have been true to their covenant with Allaah’ [al-Ahzaab 33:23 – interpretation of the meaning]. So we put it in its place in its soorah in the Mus-haf.”

Thus an end was put to dispute and the Muslims were united. The Qur’aan has remained and will remain narrated from generation to generation and preserved in men's hearts until the Day of Resurrection. This is how Allaah has preserved His Book, in confirmation of the verse in which He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur’aan) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)”

[al-Hijr 15:9]

And Allaah knows best.

Rashduct4luv:


You can't say something which can not be proven. Everyone has one form of education or another whether formal or informal.
Before you quote from authentic source then you still have to understand the context, usage, presence of other related text, etc.

You seem to run away from the Jesus part.

olayinka63:

You are not intelligent and smart. The imam was trying to keep himself low and trying to avoid trick of shaytan. If you allow pride of your good deeds to overcome you,Shaytan will make it look like no one can replace you and definitely sure for you to enter Jannah which you people called heaven. Besides, are you saying once a person dies as a Christian, he or she is going to heaven? that means all evil acts read on media perpetrated by Christians have no reward in hereafter? Think well bro

Rashduct4luv:


No Muslim is sure of what his fate will be. It is only the Christians that believes the lie that Jesus can put them in Heaven.

Matthew 20:23 Jesus said to them, “You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father.”

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 7:21

Qudsi:


Does Matthew 20:23 mean that Jesus can not put his disciples in Heaven. Let's examine the lies of this Taqiyyist and shred it to pieces.

First, Let see from verse 20 of Matthew 23. I will post the verses so everyone can read and see who is lying between the both of us as these Taqiyyists lie at the speed of lightening. Lol! You have to catch them so red-handed that all can attest to that.

So here we go:

Matthew 20:20-28 KJV — Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him. And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.

What do we have here. First, the mother of Zebedee comes to worship Jesus. Lol! The Taqiyyist never mentions that. She just like every other mother desirous and self-centered about their children only already knew that Jesus loved her two sons, James and John so much who were the two of the first three disciples selected by Jesus Christ but despite that Jesus always reproved them if they came up with their selfish demands.

Revelation 3:19:
Revelation 3:19 KJV — As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.


1. They and their mother were already sure that as result of they following Jesus. That they would already be in Heaven but what were they demanding for even going as far as worshipping Jesus so he could somehow buy into their demand. They were demanding to sit at the right and left hand sides of the throne of God. Something even the 24 elders in heaven can't do. They wanted and imagined heaven to be a show off like the worldly system where other angels will be worshipping them too because of the privilege of sitting on the right and left hand sides of Jesus (God). They practically wanted to be regarded and worshipped as God too just the same way Jesus is worshipped.

Lol! We have not gone far self and the core of this Taqiyyist arguments are blown up to be the lie it is. They knew that Jesus was the one who will sit on the throne of God as he and God is One despite all these lies the Antichrist religions peddle against him. Infact, he Jesus emerged as the Lamb from the midst of the throne, from the very center of the throne that had the invisible God presence. The invisible God that no one has seen how he looks like not even the 24 elders who are directly close to where His throne is.

Don't forget God is Invisible and Christ is the visible image of this Invisible being (Colossians 1:15 NIV — The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Revelation 5:5-6 KJV — And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.



But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

These two brothers as we read prove to us that they were the ones who engineered their mother to come ask Jesus for this. At this moment, they were very cunning and proud of the fact that they were among the first two of the first three that Jesus selected as disciples and they felt as their rights that before the other disciples that they should be seated at the right and left of Jesus Christ (God) and given the most honour that the other disciples of Jesus Christ in Heaven. Jesus knowing their hearts turned away from their mother to address them directly.

He made it clear to them that what they were asking for which is to be seated at the right and left hand sides of God that is him, Jesus Christ was asked him in ignorance. He retorted back at them reminding them of the cup of shame and humiliation which the Word of God in flesh (John 1:1 and 1:14) will drink for the sake of mankind just to take away the Sins of the world. Remember before then. He has been telling them of the coming crucifixion and resurrection. The Lamb that only him alone can open the scroll that none can both in Heaven and on Earth (remember Revelations). He told them if they would be capable of being baptized in this shame while in flesh and they replied that they are capable. Next thing Jesus assures them that truly will be their lot. They would truly pay the ultimate price of been killed as representatives of Jesus Christ but as for sitting down on his right and left side as God too. That will never be given to them in heaven.

To prove that Jesus told them the truth. Research how these two brothers died.. All the disciples of Jesus Christ were killed in one horrifying way or the other for representing Jesus Christ. They drank from this baptism. Their been disciples of Jesus Christ. Heaven was already assured for them.




And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren. But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.


To prove that this Taqiyyist is a liar. See what happens next. The other ten disciples got mad angry at these brothers, James and John who went behind their backs with their own selfish demands. What these brothers demanded would entail that in Heaven. The other ten disciples would be their servants worshipping them. The ten disciples understood what they did here and hence had every right to be angry at these two brothers. That was not only cunning but very condescending for them to imagine that the remaining ten of them will be worshipping them as God by virtue of them both sitting on the right and left sides of Jesus.

Read Jesus Christ next reply to them. He clearly made it clear to the whole disciples that the kingdom of Heaven is not like the worldly kingdoms here on Earth where humans love to dominate over their fellow humans. He said if any of the disciples desire to be numero uno amongst themselves then that disciple who desire should humble himself to be a servant in serving others. He next used himself as an example as he, been God humbled himself to be flesh giving his fleshy life as a ransom one-time for as many that will believe in this ransom sacrifice he gave on the Cross for the cleansing of the Sins of as many that believeth in him. He clearly told them the the Son of Man (one of the titles he loved to use as well as Christ=Messiah and Son of God while on Earth so any good student of the Bible or the Jew will recognize him even from the thousands of Old Testament prophecies about him like in Isaiah 9:6, Zechariah 9:9, etc.


Compare this with Muhammad's version of heaven where only males will be served with endless sex fun. Even Allah will make concession by importing females from Hell for them. The alcohol they disallowed for them here on Earth will flow endlessly for them. You know how alcohol boosts sex and orgies.

Even by Islamic standard. Jesus is God. How do we come to that conclusion. There are several of them but I will quote just two Surahs and ayahs for now. A person is the same as his Spirit. Infact a person is more Spirit than human as our human life is limited and separates when we die. Your Spirit is not different from you.

Surah 21 ayah 91 (Yousuf Ali translation of the qur'an)
وَ جَعَلۡنٰهَا وَابۡنَهَاۤ اٰيَةً لِّـلۡعٰلَمِيۡنَ
And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples.

Al Quran

What do we notice here. Allah speaks in a Trinity format/mode "We" and "Our" which invalidates Tawheed. Not only that Allah or Allah Trinity confirms that Mary is indeed Chaste/a virgin and that no man has known her. Next, Allah breaths his or "our" very own Spirit into the body of Mary so that his Spirit of Allah which has now assumed flesh Jesus Christ can be a sign for all of mankind (This also invalidates the Muslim claim that Jesus was sent to only the Jews. You can see clearly that "for all peoples".

If you try to twist this. You can't get around it whether you think Allah is singular or plural as in Trinity form. It is him that breaths his very Spirit (Jesus) into Mary. This also defeats the lie of Muslims as regards Gabriel. Saheeh, Pickthal, Shakir, Maududi, Daryabadi translations of the qur'an all agree with this Yousuf Ali translation of the qur'an as regards this particular ayah same for Surah 66 ayah 12(Saheeh translation of the qur'an alongside Pickthal, Shakir, Maududi, Daryabadi translations of the qur'an) but we start having a problem when we go to the Sahih International translation of the qur'an. We start noticing a clear deliberate act of trying to make this Surah 21 ayah 91 to change from the obvious Trinity speech of Allah plus we see clearly that Gabriel is now introduced or forced into the Sahih International translation of the qur'an. Something not there in the other translations. You have to be a serious student of history taking every second to pour over your facts. If not you won't notice these tricks. You have to dig to the roots.

Let's see Sahih International edited translation of same Surah 21 ayah 91 and see how different it now sounds:
And [mention] the one who guarded her chastity, so We blew into her [garment] through Our angel [Gabriel], and We made her and her son a sign for the worlds

Notice in bracket the "Gabriel" addition in this translation. Something not in the other translations above that I posted here. Even the Arabic. If you can research it. Gabriel is not in there. These are the same people that will at the drop of a hat tell you that the Bible that qur'an plagiarized is corrupted while the qur'an has not been tampered with. These are the people you believe their words. Let's carry on.


See Abdul Haleem's translation of this same Surah 21 ayah 91 so you don't think I am making this up:

Remember the one who guarded her chastity. We breathed into her from Our Spirit and made her and her son a sign for all people


Notice the difference.

See Dr.Ghali's translation of the same surah 21 ayah 91:

And she who attended to her private parts, (i.e., Safeguarded her chastity) so We breathed into her of Our Spirit and made her and her son a sign to the worlds

Notice another difference. This is why Muslims like to ask if Allah had sex with Mary because this translation is a little bit honest with the actual rendering of this Arabic ayah which believe you me is very dirty. The different translations try to make it sound mild to most of you as large majority of even Muslims don't speak or understand Arabic. They deliberate twist and do this to many qur'an ayahs. You will be shocked when I take through them one by one.

Mufti Taqi Usmani translation of the same surah 21 ayah 91:
And (remember) her who protected her private part (that is, Maryam). So, We blew in her (a life) through Our Spirit, and made her and her son (‘Īsā X) a sign for all the worlds.

Study even the Tafsirs and your eyes will start opening. That is why on Nairaland. They out to silence me. Anyone who dies without Jesus Christ believing all these type of lies have lost it forever. It breaks the length people will go to discredit Jesus, tell lies against him, etc. When all he ever did was live a perfect life that all religious books,angels, prophets, jinns and demons confirm. The one who says in love that he has come that you might be saved and not condemned but you lots still reject choosing your own ways that can never save you.

Even if you don't believe Jesus. At least look at his life and compare with Muhammad's own or even with any other prophet in the Bible and see that his life was perfect.

This is why I stopped believing in false religious.

Thank you Jesus Christ.

Next i should have touched on is Matthew 7:21 to also break that down for you all but let me take breath and await his response.