Seriously, these are basic Yoruba semantics, why is it you discuss Yoruba language on many threads but seem to be unaware of some simplest things? Just wondering, could you give a clue?
My dear brother, you didn't criticised my post enough because my Aro does not have diacritic. . It seems you see me as someone whose interest is to rubbish Yoruba people greatness,which many people do. Far from it because
Interestingly , my purpose is to position Yoruba land as the land of Orisha, religious land etc. In fact,when I am at convenience, I shall post Aro in 1911 dictionary with diacritic. By then ,I put your criticism in the cooler.
Olu317: Yoruba's Kutu is also shared lexicon with Ancient Egypt. Perhaps, loaned into Yoruba language. This is because, the ancient Egypt's,‘Kut', is transliterate and translated as ‘sunrise' in English language and Yoruba's ‘Kutu' is mostly translated as,‘ morning' or ‘ rise of day light.' At times, to convey how early the period is,Yoruba say, kutu+kutu{ very early in the morning}
The reason I digress a bit about Kutu is that, Yoruba says, Aro kutu or Aro kutu+kutu. I find it shocking because of the use of two synonym. Aro is early morning so also is Kutu is also early morning. You can get my grip on this from, ‘Ecology of Language by Einar Haugen', to understand my point . So,also if you can get more knowledge on Ancient Semitic language, then you will see my position on the ancient speakers of Yoruba language and place of origin.
Noted bro. Welldone!
Your comment also immediately brings the following Yoruba saying to my mind:
"Kutukutu Oba Igbo; Osangagan Obamakin".
This Yoruba saying (among other references) has been brilliantly employed by Adepegba and Ayandele to reconcile the apparent contradiction in the Oduduwa traditions of Oyo and Ife.
[I. A. Akinjogbin and E. A. Ayandele, "Yorubaland up to 1800," in Ikime, Groundwork of Nigerian History, 121-143.]
Cornelius Adegbegba interpreted this saying in relation to the Oduduwa tradition and Ife monarchy saying that:
"... it is the end of one and the beginning of another period in the political and constitutional development of the Yoruba."
He continues:
"... "Kutukutu Oba Igbo; Osangagan Obamakin" ("early morning and afternoon," implying that early kings of Ife were different from the latter ones), and the reference made to Oduduwa being lodged in the strangers' quarters in Ife by some oral sources ikedu collected by one Odukoya, they postulate that the monarchical form of government had been established in Ife before Oduduwa."
Cornelius O. Adepegba, "The Descent from Oduduwa: Claims of Superiority among Some Yoruba Traditional Rulers and the Art of Ancient Ife" published in The International Journal of African Historical Studies, Vol. 19, No. 1 (1986), p. 83.
So, yes you're right "Kutu" refers to morning even without the prefix "Aaro". I appreciate your deep insights.
Reduce your overly sentimental postings, it's not necessary.
Excessive use of emoticons, using words like "remain calm", "smiles", "cheers", etc during serious discussions, is silly. You seem excitable, perhaps that's your nature.
Are you upset? I know Nigerians generally do not like it when they are not flattered.
Also, are you liking and sharing your posts as another id or someone is on standby to do that?
I share almost all my posts for easy access by others whom it may interest.
And I guess someone is always on standby to like them and obviously for good reason.
But you did not address the issue at hand here at all.
Olu317: My dear brother, you didn't criticised my post enough because my Aro does not have diacritic. . It seems you see me as someone whose interest is to rubbish Yoruba people greatness,which many people do. Far from it because
Interestingly , my purpose is to position Yoruba land as the land of Orisha, religious land etc. In fact,when I am at convenience, I shall post Aro in 1911 dictionary with diacritic. By then ,I put your criticism in the cooler.
Are you Yoruba?
My comments are not "criticism" but letting you know you are in error. Learning is a continuous process, you might be unaware of that and should be grateful when you see how you can improve.
Yorubas are where they are today because they knew the value of improvement instead of stagnancy.
Once again, morning is Aaro, not Aro which refers to mental illness.
You can stop responding to my posts and focus on your fans.
Your cheesiness irks me somewhat.
Well, your first comment which I quoted you on was in relation to my comment on the "OGIE".
Moreover, responding to you is not mutually exclusive to focusing on so-called "fans".
In other words, I can achieve the latter while addressing the former ---- that is, while quickly niping your potential misinformation in the bud.
I see no reason why you should be mad at me for your inability to provide evidence, proof, or reason to substantiate your (obviously misleading) claim.
Your comment also immediately brings the following Yoruba saying to my mind:
"Kutukutu Oba Igbo; Osangagan Obamakin".
This Yoruba saying (among other references) has been brilliantly employed by Adepegba and Ayandele to reconcile the apparent contradiction in the Oduduwa traditions of Oyo and Ife.
[I. A. Akinjogbin and E. A. Ayandele, "Yorubaland up to 1800," in Ikime, Groundwork of Nigerian History, 121-143.]
Cornelius Adegbegba interpreted this saying in relation to the Oduduwa tradition and Ife monarchy saying that:
"... it is the end of one and the beginning of another period in the political and constitutional development of the Yoruba."
He continues:
"... "Kutukutu Oba Igbo; Osangagan Obamakin" ("early morning and afternoon," implying that early kings of Ife were different from the latter ones), and the reference made to Oduduwa being lodged in the strangers' quarters in Ife by some oral sources ikedu collected by one Odukoya, they postulate that the monarchical form of government had been established in Ife before Oduduwa."
Cornelius O. Adepegba, "The Descent from Oduduwa: Claims of Superiority among Some Yoruba Traditional Rulers and the Art of Ancient Ife" published in The International Journal of African Historical Studies, Vol. 19, No. 1 (1986), p. 83.
So, yes you're right "Kutu" refers to morning even without the prefix "Aaro". I appreciate your deep insights.
I doff my hat! I hope to lay my hand on some of these journals and books to learn more.
My comments are not "criticism" but letting you know you are in error. Learning is a continuous process, you might be unaware of that and should be grateful when you see how you can improve.
Yorubas are where they are today because they knew the value of improvement instead of stagnancy.
Once again, morning is Aaro, not Aro which refers to mental illness.
You almost seem to be making a mockery of Yoruba.
I am Omo Eri Ogun Dade( Omo æri Ogun dade)
Omo odelu Ikan (bi)
Omo afi akuko bo Ore
Omo Igunugun
Omo Odo ode Ani( Ooni)..........
Omo Kaare O'Ba mi
Who are you?
Like I had stated earlier, I shall post the Yoruba's dictionary to affirm my point. I don't joke
Are you Yoruba requires a yes or no answer. Not a long one.
It is an insult if I am asked about my Yoruba identity . Olu or Elu is what language ? Save me your patronage.Call it long story, it doesn't concern me but show me your panegyric to know who you are! This is how Yoruba do justice to their identity.....Period
You're Yoruba and you dont know omonoba means child or descendants of the Oba (referring to royal lineage possibly from the Yoruba side)? Ie people of the Oba. Omo which translates as Umu in eastoid languages?
Nairaland culture section is one hell of a place with all kinds of crazy things I just realised that's tpia the legend of imaginative constructions on this forum
TAO11: I thought I should share this interesting piece of historical information on the first time an Ooni of Ife will set foot 'outside' of his palace:
It was in the year 1903 when the then Ooni of Ife, Oba Adelekan Olubuse 1, was invited to Lagos by the then Governor General of the Southern Protectorate, Sir William MacGregor.
The Ooni was invited as a last resort measure to settle an important and fast escalating supremacy feud between certain Yoruba OBAs (I believe the Elepe and the Akarigbo --- I'm not 100% certain at the moment who and who it was) in the Lagos region.
The issue had evaded several resolution attempts by the British Government representatives until the British Government thought it was time that the Ooni himself stepped in.
Now, it must have been a really serious issue to warrant the Ooni to vacate his throne. No Ooni had done that before --- It was a pseudo-sacrilege.
Many sacrifices were offered en-route Lagos and in the whole process of his vacating his revered and imperial throne. The British Government bore all the cost of the sacrifices.
The Ooni quenched the duel as if it never happened, and as if no one ever attempted to solve the issue.
The most interesting aspect of all these, for me, is as follows:
As soon as the news reached all the kings in Southern Nigeria (from Warri, through Asaba, and down to the Yoruba interior --- including the Oba of Benin, the Alaafin of Oyo, and the Elékò) that the Ooni vacated his palace; they independently left their thrones and lived outside of their palace walls until the news reached them that the Ooni was back in Ife.
As if they informed each other, they considered it sacrilegious to continue residing in their respective palaces while the Ooni had vacated his (although temporarily and for good cause).
All these information is well documented in more details in the Government Gazette for the Colony of Lagos published on Saturday, February 28, 1903.
Also attached below is a video interview of the 'yesterday' Ooni of Ife, Oba Okunade Sijuwade Olubuse II which speaks to the same issues:
TAO11: I thought I should share this interesting piece of historical information on the first time an Ooni of Ife will set foot 'outside' of his palace:
It was in the year 1903 when the then Ooni of Ife, Oba Adelekan Olubuse 1, was invited to Lagos by the then Governor General of the Southern Protectorate, Sir William MacGregor.
The Ooni was invited as a last resort measure to settle an important and fast escalating supremacy feud between certain Yoruba OBAs (I believe the Elepe and the Akarigbo --- I'm not 100% certain at the moment who and who it was) in the Lagos region.
The issue had evaded several resolution attempts by the British Government representatives until the British Government thought it was time that the Ooni himself stepped in.
Now, it must have been a really serious issue to warrant the Ooni to vacate his throne. No Ooni had done that before --- It was a pseudo-sacrilege.
Many sacrifices were offered en-route Lagos and in the whole process of his vacating his revered and imperial throne. The British Government bore all the cost of the sacrifices.
The Ooni quenched the duel as if it never happened, and as if no one ever attempted to solve the issue.
The most interesting aspect of all these, for me, is as follows:
As soon as the news reached all the kings in Southern Nigeria (from Warri, through Asaba, and down to the Yoruba interior --- including the Oba of Benin, the Alaafin of Oyo, and the Elékò) that the Ooni vacated his palace; they independently left their thrones and lived outside of their palace walls until the news reached them that the Ooni was back in Ife.
As if they informed each other, they considered it sacrilegious to continue residing in their respective palaces while the Ooni had vacated his (although temporarily and for good cause).
All these information is well documented in more details in the Government Gazette for the Colony of Lagos published on Saturday, February 28, 1903.
Also attached below is a video interview of the 'yesterday' Ooni of Ife, Oba Okunade Sijuwade Olubuse II which speaks to the same issues:
All the above is a lie. In 1903 the Oba of Benin was Oba Ovonramwen, he lost a war against Britain six years earlier (1897) and he was in exile in Calabar in a sort of house arrest. His palace, had been burnt down by the British, Benin city (the capital of Benin empire) was in ruins. The British burnt the city down. Why you Yoruba always tell lies to aggrandise yourselves baffles me. Next you should say that all kings of the universe vacated their thrones when they heard a guy with a d.ick on his forehead was summoned to Lagos by his British masters.
You guys say "true facts" and proceed to serve us lies. This is just seek Yoruba have no history, rather you have a bunch of concocted lies which you repeat endlessly with the hope they would transform into truth. The truth is Yoruba descend from freed slaves dumped on our shores by the Europeans and from a few local ethnic groups: the Edo, the oyos, and the dahomians.
TAO11: Below is an example of the incontrovertible argument on the word "OBA":
For the Yorubas, there is a difference between A ROYAL TITLE and the word "KING" itself.
(a) Throughout all the diverse Yoruba kingdoms, the word "OBA" simply and clearly means "KING". No more, no less.
(b) However, in addition to this aforementioned Yoruba word for "KING", each of the different Yoruba kingdoms also reserve an exclusive word to describe its own monarch.
(c) These exclusive words or ROYAL TITLES distinguish one Yoruba OBA from the other Yoruba OBA.
While the word "OBA" itself simply means "KING", these royal titles (such as: OONI-IFE, ALAAFIN-OYO, OLUBADAN, etc.) do not simply by themselves mean "KING"; although they are used to exclusively describe the respective kings.
(d) For example: "OONI-Ife" by itself simply means: "THE ONE WHO OWNS Ife".
"ALAAFIN Oyo" (from: "OLU-AFIN Oyo" ) by itself simply means: "THE SOVEREIGN OF Oyo PALACE".
"OLUBADAN" (from: "OLU-IBADAN) by itself simply means: "THE SOVEREIGN OF IBADAN".
(e) This practice of reserving an exclusive ROYAL TITLE (which by itself does not necessarily mean "KING" ) for a monarch is similar, for example, to the ancient Egyptians' practice.
Although the word "PHARAOH" (i.e. "PER-AA" ) exclusively describe the ancient Egyptian kings, the word itself does NOT mean "KING".
Instead, it actually means "THE GREAT HOUSE".
It is simply a royal title which runs side-by-side the actual ancient Egyptian word for "KING".
(f) Having clarified the practice of having unique royal titles to distinguish one Yoruba Oba from the other Yoruba OBA, I will now turn to the historical analysis of the word "OBA" among the Yorubas and among the Edos/Binis.
(g) To proceed, I like to put forward the following submissions, the respective truth of which will be subsequently established to show that the word "OBA" (for "KING" ) is indeed of Yoruba origin:
(1) The Yorubas have been using the word "OBA" for their kings long long before the Binis ever would.
(2) The etymology of the word "OBA" for "KING" is not found in the Edo/Bini lexicon; but clearly present in the Yoruba's.
(3) The Binis have an actual Edo/Bini word in their own language which clearly and straightforwardly means "KING".
Regarding the point (1) on the historical timeline:
It is well known that there have been two different kingly dynasties in Benin.
It wasn't until the beginning of the second dynasty that the word "OBA" first described Benin monarchs. Prior to then, they used an entirely different word.
In a testimony of Oba Ewuare 2, he admits that the first use of the word "OBA" to describe a Benin monarch was for a man from Ile-Ife called Oranmiyan.
I hope you're gradually beginning to appreciate the reality.
Moreover, prior to Oranmiyan and his ancestor Oduduwa, the Ile-Ife people have been using the word "OBA" to designate the rulers of the different settlements of their collective territory.
Historically, Ile-Ife comprises some13 primary settlements in those early times, namely: Ido, Iloromu, Ideta, Odun, Iloran, Oke-Oja, Imojubi, Iraye, Ijugbe, Oke-Awo, Iwinrin, Parakin, and Omologun.
In these pre-Oduduwa times, these settlements were independently ruled by different monarchs called "OBA".
Some of the most prominently identified of these pre-Oduduwa OBAs whose "names" have come down to posterity together with the settlements they ruled over are: Obatala and Obawinrin.
Obatala was in charge of the settlement known as Ideta prior to his exile from Ile-Ife during the civil war that broke out when Oduduwa rose to prominence.
Obatala and his loyalists re-established a version of Ideta within the thicket of some forest away from Ife. This Ideta was called Ideta-Oko to serve as contrast to the stately Ideta (also called Ideta-Nla or Ideta-Ile) in which they lived while at Ile-Ife.
"Obatala", over time, became the contraction of "Oba Ideta-Nla"; that is, "King of Ideta-Nla".
The etymology of "Obawinrin", in contrast, is quite more obvious. "Obawinrin" became the contraction of "Oba Iwinrin"; that is, "King of Iwinrin".
Among these pre-Oduduwa kingly personages who have all long been deified is Obameri. He probably ruled over a sub-settlement.
All these "names" date to the pre-Oduduwa era. In other words, long long before Oranmiyan who will later become the FIRST REFERENT of the word "OBA" for "KING" in Benin kingdom.
I hope you see the point here.
Regarding point (2) on the etymology of "OBA":
The original, indigenous, and extant "Oba-sounding" word in the language of the Edo/Bini people comes from the Edo root-word "BA".
This root-word in simple, clear, and unequivocal terms means "SHINE".
From this Edo root-word "BA", the derived forms "O-BAA", "NOBA", and "N'OBA" each have the following respective meanings "IT IS SHINING"; "RED"; and "THAT WHICH SHINES".
Even a consideration of the derived form "N'OBA" still doesn't do justice to the etymology, because it simply means "THAT WHICH SHINES", or "THE ONE WHO SHINES" by extension to humans.
This meaning is by no stretch of the imagination one and the same thing as "KING".
The derived forms from the Edo root word "BA" are clearly entirely different words from the word "KING".
The similarity of these derived forms to the actual Yoruba word "OBA" (for "KING" ) begins and ends in the somewhat similar sounds. No more, no less.
Now, what about the Yoruba etymology of "OBA"? Does it mean "KING"? Let's find out.
The Yoruba word "OBA" comes from the Yoruba root-word "BA" which in simple, clear, and unequivocal terms means "RULE".
For example, this Yoruba root-word is found in the Yoruba statement: "Oba BA Lori Ohun Gbo-gbo."
From this Yoruba root-word "BA", the derived form "OBA", therefore means "ONE WHO RULES". No but or if.
It becomes obvious that "ONE WHO RULES" is unproblematically the equivalence of the single word "KING".
In sum, the word "OBA" (for "KING" ) as used today by the Binis is not originally found in the Edo/Bini lexicon, because the etymology "King" is not found from the available Oba-sounding Edo word.
The use of "OBA" for "KING" in Benin kingdom began with the Ife-Yoruba man called Oranmiyan, as rightly admitted by Oba Ewuare 2 in the video I attached earlier. Earlier indigenous Benin rulers were not so referred.
Again, it becomes obvious what this implies.
Regarding point (3) about the original and extant Edo/Bini word for "KING":
The logical outstanding question in the light of the foregoing therefore is:
What then is the original Edo/Benin word for "KING" since "OBA" has been demonstrated to be originally alien to the Edo/Bini lexicon??
In simple, straightforward, and unequivocal terms, the original Edo/Bini word for "KING" which actually still survives even till date is "OGIE".
Many indigenous Bini historians always acknowledge this, but without realizing its implication.
Cheers
Are you not tired of vomitting all these rubbish which you keep posting ?
It is as if you are trying to brainwash some people. For your information, there is no such thing as etymology of the word Oba. Indeed there is no precolonial dictionary of our region of the world ! All you are doing is just make belief. Also you are not an Egyptologist ! Stop acting as if you knew anything about Egyptology and Egyptology has nothing to do with Yoruba "history" or rather lack of it. You just can't be intellectually honest for a second ! And some fools are sheering this troll !??
All the above is a lie. In 1903 the Oba of Benin was Oba Ovonramwen, he lost a war against Britain six years earlier (1897) and he was in exile in Calabar in a sort of house arrest. His palace, had been burnt down by the British, Benin city (the capital of Benin empire) was in ruins. The British burnt the city down. Why you Yoruba always tell lies to aggrandise yourselves baffles me. Next you should say that all kings of the universe vacated their thrones when they heard a guy with a d.ick on his forehead was summoned to Lagos by his British masters.
why are you so pained...you are taking this too personal ,
Efesogie: You guys say "true facts" and proceed to serve us lies. This is just seek Yoruba have no history, rather you have a bunch of concocted lies which you repeat endlessly with the hope they would transform into truth. The truth is Yoruba descend from freed slaves dumped on our shores by the Europeans and from a few local ethnic groups: the Edo, the oyos, and the dahomians.
even your King whose Oranmiyan blood flows in his viens will dear not say such, when people ask for the truth , they always forget to also ask for the grace to accept it
even your King whose Oranmiyan blood flows in his viens will dear not say such, when people ask for the truth , they always forget to also ask for the grace to accept it
here we go again. I bring facts, the Yoruba guy brings legends, myths...And you want to talk about truth ?? You are the one who doesn't have enough grace to accept facts and truth.
Are you not tired of vomitting all these rubbish which you keep posting ?
It is as if you are trying to brainwash some people. For your information, there is no such thing as etymology of the word Oba. Indeed there is no precolonial dictionary of our region of the world ! All you are doing is just make belief. Also you are not an Egyptologist ! Stop acting as if you knew anything about Egyptology and Egyptology gas nothing to do with Yoruba "history" or rather lack of it. You just can't be intellectually honest for a second ! And some fools are sheering this troll !??
why not pick out the lies and let us address it one by one, it is on record that all Kings in Yorubaland(not only southwest alone) vacated their throne for the Ooni when he left his Palace, although i am not sure about that of warri and Bini
why are you so pained...you are taking this too personal ,
So you are going to act as if I have not just proven your man to be a liar ? Why are you not asking him why he lies so much ? Instead you are asking me, why I am "so pained" ? So saying the truth, exposing liars is now the same as "being pained" ?
Efesogie: here we go again. I bring facts, the Yoruba guy brings legends, myths...And you want to talk about truth ?? You are the one who doesn't have enough grace to accept facts and truth.
What is your truth and let us hear it please,
by the way who was the first man to bring horse to Igodomigodo
. It seems you see me as someone whose interest is to rubbish Yoruba people greatness,which many people do. Far from it because 
