Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments - Religion (2) - Nairaland
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| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by Nobody: 2:07pm On Dec 11, 2010 |
@c OP i'm definitely lost |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by Joagbaje(m): 4:24pm On Dec 11, 2010 |
JeSoul: This is great truth . People needed law because of the fallen nature and lack of ability to do right. But now in christ that we have the nature of God. The law of God is pre-installed in our heart as a nature. We don't need external laws .anymore , but we follow the word of God that is our manual and guide to bring out the virtue from withing us. toneyb: The tablet of the law of Moses is inside the ark of covenant. It is safely secured by God until the temple worship will resume after the rapture. before the tribulation. There is claim that the ark may be in Jerusalem or in Ethiopia . But it wasn't destroyed during the raid on the temple because they couldn't find it. Now to the topic, theist like to claim that morality is innate in humans, because god gave us morality an atheist like me will say that why then do so many people do morally bad things? The theist will then say because we are sinners and we need god to tell us what's right. Yes . Our conscience is the God part in us that guides our moral values and standard in any society. But because of the fallen nature , man also has innate the appetite of the fallen man. |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by mazaje(m): 5:11pm On Dec 11, 2010 |
e36991: What exactly is this man saying??  |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by mazaje(m): 5:20pm On Dec 11, 2010 |
Joagbaje: I thought some guy once said he discovered the ark of covenant and many Christians the world over went gaga claiming that the biblke is true?. . . . .No stone tablet was found therein. . . . .  Yes . Our conscience is the God part in us that guides our moral values and standard in any society. But because of the fallen nature , man also has innate the appetite of the fallen man. I kind of agree with this but not completely, because history has shown that people learn to cultivate their moral values. . . . . |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by mazaje(m): 5:42pm On Dec 11, 2010 |
lagerwhenindoubt: Yane maigida?. . . .Ashe ka iya hausa?. . . .Nice to know. . . . 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by e36991: 6:10pm On Dec 11, 2010 |
mazaje: @^^^ "Ko le ye ee" means literally "Una no fit sabi"Going by your admission, please show where in the bible it states ". . . the punishment for anyone caught breaking this commandment is of course death" |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by mantraa: 9:15pm On Dec 11, 2010 |
The wages of sin is death! Sin is the transgression of the law. The ten commandments where the law, written in stone by the almighty god Yahweh. Break any one of those laws and your punishment is death. (Romans 6:23) |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by Image123(m): 9:16pm On Dec 11, 2010 |
@all To add to what has been said, throw in some light for the alive, and perhaps raise the dead. Permit me to post these. Psalm 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. Believe this and you're literally on the way to heaven. Did God write the 10 Commandments and why would he need to? we are clearly told that the Fallen Man (Adam and Eve) possessed the Knowledge of Good and Evil ( i think its good that we straiten some things out, especially the brethren. It should aid our 'perspective' and help us as a whole. Man, every man/human being is made up of generally 3parts. Some say 2, some say 1. Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. And the arrangement: 1Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Please again, its not wrong, a sin, or heresy to interchange them in communication, but i think we can do that with understanding. Even god interchanges them. BODY SOUL AND SPIRIT For time and space, i won't quote scriptures on this below but it's right in your Bible, plus btw we all know this through experience, maybe just never observed it. *BODY; i won't say much on the body, most of us agree that we have bodies anyway. My little cousins can mention some parts of the body and their functions *SOUL; Many believe its located inside us, we're even taught that it's an organ in the head called the brain. Well, i'll add that it is often an expression of the true SELF. Amongst others, three functions of the soul are emotion, will power and mind/intellect. Emotion contains fear, pity, joy, pleasure, love, remorse, pride etc Will power contains freedom, fame, wealth, power, desire, decision etc Mind/intellect contains imaginations, knowledge, ideals, doubts, inquiries, analyses, decision etc *SPIRIT; Many believe its somewhere in your chest, some call it the heart. Me, i donno(aint omniscient), but i agree it is in every human, unfortunately USUALLY dead. Amongst others, three functions of the spirit are conscience, intuition and worship. Conscience recognises right/wrong spontaneously, even without prior external influence. It seldom bends to outside opinion, you either silence/deaden it or agree with it. Intuition is also independent of outside influence unlike the mind. You just know. some people call it "follow your mind/heart". You just have that inner feeling that someone is coming, or something is about to happen, or this is what to do. Worship is Worship. What can i call it. Communion, Fellowship. True worship is a function of the spirit. John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. These are the 3parts. Anyone person can manifest any of the listed functions, it only proves that he/she has body, or spirit or soul. Having conscience or being intuitive doesn't mean you're born again, or spiritfilled. A display of joy or remorse, or fear or pity doesn't make you good or better. A drive for power, or wealth, or a thirst for freedom of mankind or any kind is a manifestation that you have a soul. Being full of ideals, introspections, analyses(critical/analytical), a wealth of knowledge shows that you have something 'in your brain'. I'll add that no 2humans are equal, and we're not all equally blessed in these qualities, BUT the three parts of the human can be trained/improved/cultivated/'gymed'. In BODY, one may be naturally blessed with good physique, sharp eyesight, ears for music, height, big head. As usual, In SOUL, one may also be naturally blessed with a brilliant mind, gentle or quiet nature, easily remorseful than others, shyness, initiative etc. Also the soul can be developed/cultivated in any of these areas. We live in the information age, and we see a lot of soul development. Amazing things that people know and do today. They call it "develop yourself". In SPIRIT. Most spirits are suppressed/deadened naturally btw. Those who are naturally developed in spirit are often absurd people,shrinks. The soul or worse still the body rules in majority. one may be naturally blessed with strong conscience, or almost perfect intuitive ability, or worshipful. Maybe you've been at a religious gathering, two minutes singing and one guy's already 'in the spirit', and you're like what's happening, what has been said or done, what did i miss.That's worshipful The truth is that one, presence/absence of any of these things(in body, spirit or soul) are not equal to salvation. It doesn't necessarily mean you're on the 'right path', or God is with you more. Just proves that you're human with body, soul and spirit. Truth two is that most of these functions or attributes can be developed. Development/improvement is not equal to eternal life. That you've taken the right diet to become the tallest or the biggest, or you've trained yourself to smell a rat from 3blocks away or you know how to endure pain, walk on fire, fast for days is development, not right standing with God. That you've trained your spirit, do yoga and meditations, communicate with spirits doesn't translate into holiness, unfortunately development of spirit can be very deceptive. Because you manifest powers that are not normal/natural. It happens a lot in the Oriental parts of the world, and people communicate with spirits(unclean spirits of course), get possessed, perform signs and magic, and it's in some churches ofcourse. All these don't make anyone righteous or born again, people are just tapping from the wrong/negative supply. That we're so trained today, we know more than ourselves, as it were. We have extremely brilliant minds, logics and perfect reasonings and debates. Like lagerindoubt put it it seems we are doomed to moral imperfection no matter how enlightened and knowledgeable we become.IT world, jetage, great debaters, intellectual, scholarly, academically inclined. No doubt, we have well developed and are still developing ourselves. But these are not the things that make us good, or in a sense many say it 'morally good'. The truth is, any of the 3parts we develop will not make us good,bad news. A strong will, resolute plan cannot help us to keep the commandments of God, or be good. Matthew 26:35 Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise al[b]so said all the disciples[/b]. Being religious or 'spiritual' doesn't help either Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. Good news is, only God can make us good. How? By being good for us. We cannot be good. We cannot keep the commandments, whether they are 1, 10 0r 1,000,000,000. James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. If we invite Jesus Christ, He can save us. He can actually live in us and help us keep all the commandments(He has all power and grace). Sorry my post is longer than usual, i should cut here. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by e36991: 1:37am On Dec 12, 2010 |
e36991: mantraa: @^^^ SMH, all these stringing and antics dont cease to amaze 1 Like |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by emofine(f): 3:18am On Dec 12, 2010 |
I actually see this as a very valid question. To be honest the ironic thing is that we today probably need that guideline more than ever. Imagine being born in a world where having 2 fathers and 2 women marrying each other is normal. I am not impressed with my peers doing it but by the time we have children it will be relative normal like wearing miniskirts I suppose. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by Joagbaje(m): 8:38am On Dec 12, 2010 |
@mazaje mazaje: I will appreciate a link to that info. I am aware that the ark Noah was discovered on mt ararat. But ark of covenant? No such news yet as far as I'm concerned. There was insinuation it was sent to Ethiopia, before the distruction of the temple. Queen Elisabeth once went there and saw an ark , but there was claim it was an imitation. |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by e36991: 12:51pm On Dec 12, 2010 |
mazaje: @^^^ Apparently referring to this: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-564882.0.html#msg7312702It’s no doubt that most modern judicial systems have elements of The Mosaic Law also referred to as the Moral Law in their framework . . . But why are other laws in the Old Testament (i.e. OT) getting lumbered & associated with The 10 Commandments (i.e. the Mosaic Law) here . . . Mazaje fails to recognise and distinguish a civil or civic law (i.e. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother’s milk - Exodus 23:19) from the Mosaic Law “Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother’s milk” - Exodus 23:19 is one of the civil or civic laws introduced by Moses with a focal point on the Israelites’ health. Refer to Deutronomy 14:21 (i.e. . . . Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk) for more information on clean and unclean foods As a matter of fact, altogether there are 613 laws (i.e. 603 laws without the 10 commandments) in the Old Testament Out of the 613 laws in the OT, 365 have positive consequences; the other 248 have negative consequences. Altogether the laws are in three self-explanatory categories: 1 – Moral laws (i.e. The 10 commandments or the Mosaic Laws) 2 – Ceremonial laws 3 – Civil or Civic laws Mazaje’s “Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother’s milk” (i.e. Exodus 23:19) is one of the 248 laws with negative consequences. Exodus 23:19 - “Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother’s milk” is not one of the 10 commandments (i.e. The Mosaic Law otherwise known as the Moral law) but rather is a civil or civic law introduced by Moses on health grounds Among other obvious things, it was the negative health consequences (i.e. potentially can lead to death) of Exodus 23:19, a common Canaanite ritual and pagan practice then (i.e. cooking meat in milk for fertility and/or prosperity) that called for the law to be brought about Remember Moses was in charge of a whole nation . . . Moses literally was the MOG and pastor for at least 3.6 million people. With next to nothing in terms of water, sanitation, people living in tents, constantly on the move at the drop of a hat, the heat, the dust etc . . . Moses was leading at least up to 3.6 million people out of Egypt to the Promised Land. If measures (i.e. checks and balances) such as Exodus 23:19 were not taken, imagine the dire consequences if an epidemic or an outbreak of disease where to happen in the wilderness-desert whilst leading 3.6+ million people to the Promised Land 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by Image123(m): 6:03pm On Dec 12, 2010 |
In essence, the conscience cannot be relied on for judgement. Conscience is relative. We've seen development and underrdevelopment of the conscience in individuals and in the society, or ages past. God's laws are not relative, they are unchanging. The 10 commandments are not the only laws of God. The whole of Moses i.e the 1st five books of the Bible are also called law. further more, the whole of the Old testament is called law. Furtherest, the whole of the Bible, both OT and NT are truly the law. that's a whole volume you'd say. The summary of the whole thing is what Jesus Himself called the 1st and 2nd greatest commandments. Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment. Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Also, Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. A good observer will see that these two greatest commandments are not even in the 10commandments,in a sense, but are rather found in Deuteronomy6 and Leviticus 19 respectively.These 2 are the embodiment of everything in the scriptures. The 10 commandments, or any of the Law are not given as a means of salvation. Keeping the law never 'saved' anybody. You can't even keep it on your own by the way. The laws of God are rules for guidance. A sort of measure/standard/guage for us to be Godly. God gave us life, and i think that if fellow humans can sit and make laws and regulations as legislators, i think God deserves to give us laws. a good side note is that, those who refuse to abide by God's laws will be judged by God's laws. The 10 commandments picture the 2 greatest commandments as they naturally fall into two classes. The 1st to 4th teach about the personality of God and our duty/obligation to God. The 5th to 10th commandments teach us ethical duties of morality to man/our neighbour, Little wonder that the NT says Love is the fulfilling of the law. Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. It's plain childish underrstanding and mischief to claim that the 10 commandments changed. For good measure, here are the 10 commandments again. Exodus 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Exo 20:3 (1) Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Exo 20:4 (2) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; Exo 20:6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Exo 20:7 (3) Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. Exo 20:8 (4) Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exo 20:12 (5) Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Exo 20:13 (6) Thou shalt not kill. Exo 20:14 (7) Thou shalt not commit adultery. Exo 20:15 (  Thou shalt not steal. Exo 20:16 (9) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. Exo 20:17 (10) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's. If you'd notice, Moses spent 40days on Mt. Horeb, and the other things written after in that chapter and others were explanations and detailed instructions on the laws which btw are all embodied in those 2great law[/b]s or if you want it, in this 10laws. This is clear in Exodus 34 except you choose not to learn. Exo 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee [b]two tables of stone like unto the first: and[b] I will write upon these tables[/b] the words that were in the first tables, which thou didst break. Exo 34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments. To be clear, the 10 commandments are written again in Deuteronomy 5v1-22. There were things that Moses wrote at the Mount, but[b] God clearly wrote the one on stone[/b]. the english is clear. people should learn to see context instead of bringing up foolish questions. Deu 5:22 These words the LORD spoke unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me. And just to add something on the 'seethe passage'. Seethe means to boil(Like when a person is seetheing with anger, the person is boiling with anger) i.e boil a young animal in the mother's milk. This is absurd behaviour. Normally, one would wait for an animal to be matured before killing it, it won't be more palatable as a kid. It's likely to have been a superstitious practice in the heathen lands which the Israelites were not to copy. Added to that might be the possible health implications. We can apply that to our lives today by not been superstitious, or more obviously not being obnoxious. In other words, don't do crazy things, nauseating stuff. Others can try out and experiment all sort of weirdness, but believers should be more circumspect. There's no scripture that wee can't gain something from. No commandment is useless, it's our understanding that may not be perfect. BTW, we have the greater commandments, so let's get busy, and let Christ keep them in us and for us. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by Image123(m): 6:12pm On Dec 12, 2010 |
The commandments show us our inadequacies and drive us to seek pardon and salvation from God. This salvation comes through Jesus Christ. He is the One with ability to quicken us i.e our dead spirit. 1Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. The order in which God made man and planned for men to function was spirit, soul and body. It's what we refer to when we say that man[b] FELL[/b]. 1Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. There's the order. We were created in the image of God. God is a Spirit. Our best CAPACITY is to function as spiritual. Many people function as carnal/fleshly, some as soulish. The spirit is meant to reign, followed by soul, then body. Adam by proxy blew our spirit's ability to reign. He went for the wrong tree. he put the soul on top. He got disconnected from the spirit. That's the warning God gave, his spirit died i.e it lost it's power to reign. It fell in the pecking order. The best order again is spirit soul and body. It's the way man was made to function effectively. Little wonder Adam did wonders in that order, and glimpses of the sublimity were even noticed after the fall. Here was one man with CAPACITY to manage and reproduce paradise. Think of the expanse and size of Eden with i think 4major rivers irrigating it. Today, we're trying no doubt, but you know it'll take the best minds and monies in the world to build a sort of paradise anywhere in the world, not to talk of maintaining it. how many courses technocrats will continue to do, and the training and the updating, but we're tryin sha abi? Adam died about a hundred years before Noah's generation. I think he must have passed on some know-how to the people around him before the flood, though it just can't be like. Little wonder that Noah's ship builders had the expertise to build his ark. Two interesting things to note, or re-note as an asides, are God's warning and the people's attitude. -God warned the people about judgement for very long, close to a thousand years before the flood. Enoch prophetically named his son Methuselah (Adam was still alive and well by this time anyway). The name Methuselah means something like "at his death, judgement will come". It's good to note that the flood came the year methuselah died. Anyone can calculate it from the Genesis 5geneology and Genesis 7v6. Everyone still spoke the same language, Methuselah was a popular person, the oldest man on earth, the son of the man that did not die. Anytime, his name Methuselah was mentioned, it was a message of judgement coming. 969 years and almost nobody cared. It was delusional to think of judgement, much less a flood. In came Noah and preached for over 100 years and only his family seemed to care. We've been telling the world for over 2000years now that Jesus is coming to judge the world. they are only counting the time for us, mocking and scorning. 2Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished. 2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. -All that the people cared about was use the coming jugement to make some money. Let's help in this worldclass ark building project. bring in ideas, set up structures and foundations. They must have celebrated Noah's blueprint, maybe even improved on it to design other houses. But they never believed enough to come into the ark. today too, unbelieers are making money, building cathedrals and churches, camps and tabernacles, setting up crusade grounds and massive tour tents. people are selling bibles, tapes and videos, a lot of books, but they are not repenting. Once beaten, it'll be wise to be ten times shy, but we have many bold unbelievers(athiests and christains included) today. So we note Adam's brilliance and ability when and shortly after man was arranged spirit soul and body. Today, many are fleshly(ruled by the body). This is complete chaos. Like Proverbs says, it is abnormal when the servant is reigning, there's disquiet. But that's the pitiable state of many. They are ruled by their body, driven by physical desires. Many today have the soul on top(ruled by their mind, will or emotion). This is the seat of SELF/ego. We live in that age, we usually refer to it as civilisation. More of subtle brilliance than brute force which we call barbaric. But God wants to quicken our spirits, that it may have a chance to be on top, that we may commune with Him, and taste Eden with a view to the future restoration, Heaven. We cannot function well on our own, unfortunately, the soul believes we can. We're not created that way. The only hope we have is Jesus. He's the one who has power to quicken our spirit, save us, and live for us. we couldn't do it. we are but flesh, a totally different plane/dimension from spirit. That's why you MUST be born again to stand a chance. The commandments are necessary to bring us to Christ, who alone can help us keep the commandments, which will take us to paradise again. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by aletheia(m): 6:28pm On Dec 12, 2010 |
^^^Great words there, my brother! God bless you. |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by Image123(m): 9:07pm On Dec 12, 2010 |
^Amen o |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by lagerwhenindoubt(m): 10:17am On Dec 13, 2010 |
@Image123 & @e36991 I shall definitely be featuring more questions in the near future, interesting and insightful submissions - the connection between and order of Spirit, Soul and Body with their respective roles and how God comes into the setup is no doubt intriguing. and thanks for the clarification on conscience and morals I'd love to hear from Jesoul too |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by JeSoul(f): 5:06pm On Dec 13, 2010 |
^Lager, sorry for my abbreviated appearances. Nice input from everyone from Joagbaje to Image. Vesc no be trick question now, lol. Just one that I was hoping would direct us down the right yellow brick road. lagerwhenindoubt:Hmm . . . I would counter that it wasn't so much hesitation as it was mercy. We see many instances of God "changing his mind" after He is prayed to or pleaded with. Showing mercy I would say wouldn't necessarily reflect negatively on His immutability. But that's just by the way . . . I'm interested in pursuing the bolded bit - to me, I think that is the real problem - for us humans. Vesc and others have rightly noted that our understanding of morality is constantly evolving (and even in some cases as you noted, de-volving). And if God is God - then He does not have this problem. So while our 'morality-measurement-scale' is constantly being adjusted and re-calibrated depending on the time/culture/circumstance, God is still constant. - And this is what people of the christian faith stand on. Recall e36991 said: e36991:faith that if God is indeed good, then nothing He does or sanctions can be truly 'immoral' from His perspective (even though we may not understand it)- and what is 'immoral' anyways? You familiar with the story of King Hezekiah? He was a very good man by godly standards. He fell ill and God told him "get your house in order because you're going to die". Hezekiah prayed and pleaded with God to save his life. God answered his prayer and told him he'd live for 15 more yrs. But the real catch is this, the 15 more years Hezekiah spent on earth directly resulted in a terrible tragedy for both his family and the nation he ruled over so - - was it immoral/wrong for God to have told Hezekiah he was going to die? - was it wrong for God to have listend to Hezekiah's prayer and healed him? knowing that allowing him to live would result in a terrible tragedy for his whole family and the entire nation? - would it have been better if Hezekiah had simply died? - Hezekiah's standing with God was relatively good until the last 15yrs, was his eternal standing compromised by God saving his life earlier? -Today, would it be considered 'wrong' for God not to act to save a life? Interesting, this brings a new perspective to my initial thoughts on the issue. God's Commandments represent His Moral Standards (his WILL is LAW) and if we are to live according to his will, we must uphold them totally (no slacking or slouching). After the Fall of Man, it became a daunting task to uphold his WILL perfectly thus the natural instinctive attraction to building personal (individual) and social morals (code of ethics and belief systems). I guess we can mostly agree that this has failed (woefully).Indeed it has. I think we understand from the New Testament that it was always impossible to uphold all of God's Laws - it was never really about us having enough 'liver'  or testicular fortitude to be able to keep the commandments. e36991 said "the law is a means to an end". The purpose of the Law was simply to point us in the right direction Heb 10:1 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves.You rightly said "God's Law has not enhanced man's morals" - we are sinful. And the way we get past this dilemma was completely solved in the person of Jesus Christ - for past, present and future generations - because His sacrifice defies our perception of time. By showing us a salvation (way to God) not based on how efficient we are in keeping (the latest) moral codes/laws - but rather one that is based on faith. A faith that expresses itself (inspite of its shortcomings) by showing its love for God and fellow man. Disclaimer, pls non-theists and others that take exception to God/bible/faith etc I no get power to tussle over real/not real/why should we believe in your bible etc so don't vex if I don't respond. Gracias. |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by lagerwhenindoubt(m): 7:40pm On Dec 13, 2010 |
^^^ Jesoul. Muchos Gracias. I think there is a fine line where Faith meets Reason in agreement. will digest further reading of the Bible with this in mind 1 Like |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by JeSoul(f): 8:59pm On Dec 13, 2010 |
You're welcome Lagersir. I'd also like to hear your thoughts/answers (whether they are objective, subjective, non-jective etc ) on the Hezekiah story. Thanks!1 Like |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by lagerwhenindoubt(m): 1:53pm On Dec 14, 2010 |
Cain, Judas (Iscariot) Hezekiah, Nebuchadnezzar,Two thieves on either of Jesus side at crucifixion, The Tower of Babel and King Solomon's reign are among aspects of Bible and History that are of deep academic interest to me. but i will summarize my take on Hezekiah He was a Practical Man and one for Religious Reforms, so he is in my books a "Responsible Man of God" who unfortunately came to a sad end with his Kingdom and conscience in tatters. The part of his story that interests me is not that God extended the years of his life but the events that transpired during those years. His rebellion against the Assyrian Empire and Sennacherib’s invasion is proof to the weird power of prophecy, He faced a painful dilemma; Listening to his political and military advisers on one hand, and the "caustic" prophet Isaiah rebuking him on the other. With the Kingdom of Judah at risk, he reasoned that trusting in God seem the obvious choice but the reality on ground demanded reason more than faith (for the time-being the threat of Egypt was imminent) , Judah was a vassal state to the Assyrian empire (with it some un-Godly practices that must have angered God ). He had accepted physical, spiritual, and metaphorical slavery over trust in God’s deliverance and I figure if it were up to most people; facing the ruthless might of the Assyrian, we too may have made the decisions Hezekiah did. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by e36991: 6:09pm On Dec 14, 2010 |
lagerwhenindoubt: @^^^ Ern-erh. Interesting. OK ooo. I'll be back like Arnold Schwarzenegger, dropping cats among your pigeons . . . I will be back, no sooner than the weekend, God willing, to drop flies in this ointment " . . . be back over the weekend to this . . . " like my friend Image123 usually says  1 Like |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by cogicero: 6:49pm On Dec 14, 2010 |
these are deep things |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by JeSoul(f): 4:11pm On Dec 15, 2010 |
lol@e36991's last post. lagerwhenindoubt:Lol. I guess our interests are reversed. I was actually trying to focus on morality from the context of both man and God - using Hezekiah's illness and recovery and subsequent fall as a mini-case study. Not to put you on the spot but if you (or anyone else actually - Vesc hello? Image hello?) would like to take a stab at these particular questions - JeSoul: Grazie tanto. 1 Like |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by lagerwhenindoubt(m): 5:43pm On Dec 15, 2010 |
@JeSoul
I will oblige (to the best of my knowledge) btw our interests are not totally reversed It just requires a Leap of Faith for me and that is another matter altogether (another theme for discussion)Question 1: was it immoral/wrong for God to have told Hezekiah he was going to die? I am fishing here but I assume the King had prospered from God's benevolence for quite a while (not to mention the slaying the army that besieged his kingdom)without making recompense
Answer 1: No it was not morally wrong; It was a necessary (morally-correct) consequence of the Kings actions that brought about his illness and God's pronouncement of his death by proxy (Prophet Isaiah) Question 2: was it wrong for God to have listened to Hezekiah's prayer and healed him? knowing that allowing him to live would result in a terrible tragedy for his whole family and the entire nation? Answer 2: For one thing God had no need for his vaunted powers of creation - being the resident herbalist, he knew exactly which bush leaves to mix The King was not perfect, but he was a righteous man nonetheless. Soo; Yes and No - God get soft-spot for im real person and mild arm-twisting on the part of the King was involved to get his "self-centered wishes"2nd Chronicles 32:26 Notwithstanding Hezekiah humbled himself for the pride of his heart, both he and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the wrath of the LORD came not upon them in the days of Hezekiah. Question 3: would it have been better if Hezekiah had simply died? Answer 3: I am in agreement that it would have been better, (he had paid his dues in full after-all) Question 4: Hezekiah's standing with God was relatively good until the last 15yrs, was his eternal standing compromised by God saving his life earlier? Answer 4: The benefit of hindsight the King failed to note - God can grant you your wish against his better judgment, but the consequences are yours to bear. Psalm 106:15 He gave them their request but sent leanness into their soul Question 5: Today, would it be considered 'wrong' for God not to act to save a life? Answer 5: I would not touch this one with a 100Ft Pole (it remains a controversial - largely unanswered question) |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by Nobody: 7:05am On Sep 12, 2012 |
Bump!!! 1 Like |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by lagerwhenindoubt(m): 2:47pm On Jun 13, 2013 |
bumpitty |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by FromGuiriga(m): 8:38pm On Jun 13, 2013 |
toneyb: Moses was from the tribe of Levi. He was not from the tribe of Judah. So he was no Jew. |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by Nobody: 5:31pm On Dec 09, 2022 |
This has got to be one of the most riveting thread I have read to date |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by Kobojunkie: 6:23pm On Dec 09, 2022 |
UseItOrLoseIt:In what sense?  |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by KnownUnknown: 7:39pm On Dec 09, 2022 |
So that he can remember them. |
| Re: Why Did God Need To Write The 10 Commandments by Nobody: 6:33pm On Dec 13, 2022 |
Kobojunkie: The sheer breadth and depth of the discussion alone |
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