Goodnight but think about Nigeria, not just opposition to Biafra. What is the urgent way forward? Nigeria is certainly not working!

Area4Area:
Had enough please, goodnight.

0monnak0da:


What is the way forward?
All that talk will not result in Biafra

All this talk is empty and impotent

What is the plan?
War?

Ojukwu went to Aburi for restructuring
THAT is laughable

Who changed the structure in the first place?


It was Ironsi with decree 34 1966

It is you Nigerians who are talking about war, the Biafran agitators are talking about referendum.

The way forward is to allow the rule of law prevail. The Biafran agitators have been granted the right to agitate and protest for a separate state under extant laws. Whether their agitation will amount to anything is their business not yours, so stop drinking panadol over another person's headache

As at the time Ojukwu went to Aburi in January 1967, Nigeria had 4 Regions, the four Regions had resource control and fiscal responsibility, which are the basis of true federalism. The four Regions even had their own British Ambassadors. At Aburi, Ojukwu secured even more powers for the Regions by getting Regional Armies. All 4 Regions now had its own military force, which virtually turned Nigeria into a confederation of 4 powerful Regions and a weak centre in Lagos. This ensured that no Region could dominate another.

All that was required of Gowon was to return to Nigeria, conduct a constitutional conference or adopt the constitution Nigeria was operating before the Military came, conduct elections and return to the Barracks.

But Gowon and his fellow Northerners simply did not like a system that ensured equity. They needed to do away with the ever powerful Regions and make the centre strong so as to control Nigeria. So Gowon did exactly that by enacting decree 14 that abolished the 4 Regions, replaced them with 12 weak states, and gave the centre so much powers. They only thing Gowon and his Northern cohorts never counted on was that Ojukwu and his people were not going to take it lying low like other Regions. The only options left for Ojukwu was to either accept decree 14, which other cowardly Regions did, or break from the system and fight for independence. It may not have worked out for Ojukwu and the Eastern Region but no apology for fighting for freedom in the face of enslavement. Thats what great people do

When people talk about Ironsi's decree 34, I laugh. Despite Decree 34, the 4 Regions maintained their borders, enjoyed resource control and fiscal responsibility. But nobody wants to talk about Gowons decree 14 that was a hundred times worse, and took all of these things away. The only reason some people talk about decree 34 is because it was an Igbo man who enacted it, had it been a Northerner, those who talk about it would not.

'One Nigeria' is a joke

DMerciful:
No, just the old eastern region.
Now that it will not include Lagos, I expect support from you and other Westerners. There was healthy competition between the East and the West that made both regions the fastest developing regions in Africa at the time before Nzeogwu and Ironsi ruined it but even though they did not consult with the Igbos and are not representatives of the Igbos(they were never voted for), the Igbos have more than pay the price for their adventures.
Now we say the country currently is not working,
let's restructure, you said NO! Let's break up, you said NO! But you agree it's not working. It's only a tree that will see you coming to cut it but do nothing.

Why the old Eastern Region ENTIRELY
WHO made that decision?
WHEN?
HOW?


Why NOW

What exactly is the CRISIS?

The only one I can see is GEJ's loss

If June 12 could happen and there was no referendum

Once again?

What is the crisis trigger now?

The fact that you imagine we the Non voting Nigerians in this fantastic referendum project would just roll over and say "Amen"_ is why we call you childish

The other problem is your tendency to lie so glibly for rhetorical effect.
When did you say restructure and we said no.
That is just unserious talk.

We have never been political partners.
Honestly we do not see you as necessarily pivotal to achieving strategic regional objectives. We do not need to explain ourselves to you.We do not have to pursue our objectives in a way you can understand or predict or approve. We do not need your imprimatur.
Individual politicians may woo you in time but strategically you are impulsive and on a different page.

gidgiddy:


It is you Nigerians who are talking about war, the Biafran agitators are talking about referendum.

The way forward is to allow the rule of law prevail. The Biafran agitators have been granted the right to agitate and protest for a separate state under extant laws. Whether their agitation will amount to anything is their business not yours, so stop drinking panadol over another person's headache

As at the time Ojukwu went to Aburi in January 1967, Nigeria had 4 Regions, the four Regions had resource control and fiscal responsibility, which are the basis of true federalism. The four Regions even had their own British Ambassadors. At Aburi, Ojukwu secured even more powers for the Regions by getting Regional Armies. All 4 Regions now had its own military force, which virtually turned Nigeria into a confederation of 4 powerful Regions and a weak centre in Lagos. This ensured that no Region could dominate another.

All that was required of Gowon was to return to Nigeria, conduct a constitutional conference or adopt the constitution Nigeria was operating before the Military came, conduct elections and return to the Barracks.

But Gowon and his fellow Northerners simply did not like a system that ensured equity. They needed to do away with the ever powerful Regions and make the centre strong so as to control Nigeria. So Gowon did exactly that by enacting decree 14 that abolished the 4 Regions, replaced them with 12 weak states, and gave the centre so much powers. They only thing Gowon and his Northern cohorts never counted on was that Ojukwu and his people were not going to take it lying low like other Regions. The only options left for Ojukwu was to either accept decree 14, which other cowardly Regions did, or break from the system and fight for independence. It may not have worked out for Ojukwu and the Eastern Region but no apology for fighting for freedom in the face of enslavement. Thats what great people do

When people talk about Ironsi's decree 34, I laugh. Despite Decree 34, the 4 Regions maintained their borders, enjoyed resource control and fiscal responsibility. But nobody wants to talk about Gowons decree 14 that was a hundred times worse, and took all of these things away. The only reason some people talk about decree 34 is because it was an Igbo man who enacted it, had it been a Northerner, those who talk about it would not.

'One Nigeria' is a joke

Was it Nnamdi Kanu that was seen on video seeking to procure arms in the US?
There is plenty of material online of IPOB calling for war. Why are you such liars?
Is t your right to disrupt elections or to threaten people not to vote or open their shops?
Is it your right to violently intimidate the public?
To broadcast hate speeches against Yoruba people and their churches?


MASSOB is still around
They are not restrained when they obey the law

You say Igbos are proud and arrogant. Guess the bold is not arrogance! Time shall tell, have a good one!

0monnak0da:

Why the old Eastern Region ENTIRELY
WHO made that decision?
WHEN?
HOW?


Why NOW

What exactly is the CRISIS?

The only one I can see is GEJ's loss

If June 12 could happen and there was no referendum

Once again?

What is the crisis trigger now?

The fact that you imagine we the Non voting Nigerians in this fantastic referendum project would just roll over and say "Amen"_ is why we call you childish

The other problem is your tendency to lie so glibly for rhetorical effect.
When did you say restructure and we said no.
That is just unserious talk.

We have never been political partners.
Honestly we do not see you as necessarily pivotal to achieving strategic regional objectives. We do not need to explain ourselves to you.We do not have to pursue our objectives in a way you can understand or predict or approve. We do not need your imprimatur.
Individual politicians may woo you in time but strategically you are impulsive and on a different page.

You did not addressed the points he raised!

0monnak0da:

Was it Nnamdi Kanu that was seen on video seeking to procure arms in the US?
There is plenty of material online of IPOB calling for war. Why are you such liars?
Is t your right to disrupt elections or to threaten people not to vote or open their shops?
Is it your right to violently intimidate the public?
To broadcast hate speeches against Yoruba people and their churches?


MASSOB is still around
They are not restrained when they obey the law

DMerciful:
You say Igbos are proud and arrogant. Guess the bold is not arrogance! Time shall tell, have a good one!

Not arrogant just realistic.
History has taught that we can count on you to work predictably against us politically in EVERY election in Nigerian history
Every I repeat
So from that perspective we would be foolish to add you in our political calculation as allies, quite the contrary
You did not vote for Abiola and did everything in your power to sabotage him. No one quarrelled with you at the time

DMerciful:
You did not addressed the points he raised!

You are entitled to your views

Abiola was insensitive to insist on Muslim-Muslim ticket when we have equal number of muslims and Christians, I'm not saying its important personally but many people believe in balance. I was quite young then but I know my Dad voted for Abiola at the time, he liked Abiola.

0monnak0da:

Not arrogant just realistic.
History has taught that we can count on you to work predictably against us politically in EVERY election in Nigerian history
Every I repeat
So from that perspective we would be foolish to add you in our political calculation as allies, quite the contrary
You did not vote for Abiola and did everything in your power to sabotage him. No one quarrelled with you at the time

DMerciful:
Abiola was insensitive to insist on Muslim-Muslim ticket when we have equal number of muslims and Christians, I'm not saying its important personally but many people believe in balance. I was quite young then but I know my Dad voted for Abiola at the time, he liked Abiola.

It would have been better you kept quiet than spit out this nonsense
So you did not vote Abiola because of Muslim ticket?

AND all the court cases and other sabotage actions you initiated?
Well you say you were young so I understand you do not know what you are talking about
It was never an issue.
The truth is like I said you have NEVER voted for Yorubas and CRUCIALLY we have never held that against you ,never quarrelled or called you betrayers
What is offensive is your incorrigible dishonesty and revisionism
We know that the thought that we get ahead of you in any sphere is viscerally repugnant to you and drives you nuts but the head is different from the tail.
Once again you are not pivotal to our strategic vision and more than likely antagonists so we dey siddon look

0monnak0da:

Was it Nnamdi Kanu that was seen on video seeking to procure arms in the US?
There is plenty of material online of IPOB calling for war. Why are you such liars?
Is t your right to disrupt elections or to threaten people not to vote or open their shops?
Is it your right to violently intimidate the public?
To broadcast hate speeches against Yoruba people and their churches?


MASSOB is still around
They are not restrained when they obey the law

Ahhhhh! I see. Nnamdi was seeking arms, IPOB was calling for war, they they threatened to disrupt elections, they broadcast hate speech and they threatened people not to open their shops.

All of that amounts to "talking". In criminal law, what was done is far more important than what was said. So if your headache is what Nnamdi Kanu or IPOB said, then go and sleep. There are far more important things out there

If all Shekau and Boko Haram did was "talk", 200,000 thousand Nigerians would still be alive, 2 million would not be in internally displaced camps and Nigeria would not have spent Billions of Naira, that could have been used for other things, in almost 10 years, battling Boko Haram since all they were doing was talking

Stop discussing politics, its for people who are after serious issues.

Anyways, good luck in your strategic vision! We will be victorious!

0monnak0da:

It would have been better you kept quiet than spit out this nonsense
So you did not vote Abiola because of Muslim ticket?

AND all the court cases and other sabotage actions you initiated?
Well you say you were young so I understand you do not know what you are talking about
It was never an issue.
The truth is like I said you have NEVER voted for Yorubas and CRUCIALLY we have never held that against you ,never quarrelled or called you betrayers
What is offensive is your incorrigible dishonesty and revisionism
We know that the thought that we get ahead of you in any sphere is viscerally repugnant to you and drives you nuts but the head is different from the tail.
Once again you are not pivotal to our strategic vision and more than likely antagonists so we dey siddon look

forgiveness:


Do you mean to say Ironsi abolished regionalism? I am learning.

No bros. Ironsi unified the civil service and introduced the Federal Civil Servant we know today that can be posted anywhere in the country. Ironsi still had Regional administrators like Ojukwu in the Eastern Region and Hassan Katsina in the north. Gowon and co overthrew Ironsi and created states. Gowon destroyed regionalism but propagandists keep saying Ironsi did it

Area4Area:
Are you saying that regional power now supersedes that of the centre for Ojukwu to have unilaterally secede from the union?
Eastern region laws doesn't and cannot override that of the federal government.

Federal government says no secession and it is binding on all component parts

Which Federal laws legitimized Gowon's government in those days following Gowon's coup? Which secession laws forbade the Eastern Region? Show us

Open your eyes and learn. There was a constitutional crisis that they went to sort out in Aburi because the north wanted to secede after their Araba (secession) counter coup and the East didn't want to be in the federation. The West was doing siddon look waiting for the stronger side to emerge before picking a side. They left Aburi with an understanding on the future of Nigeria's structure but senior civil servants advised Gowon not to go ahead with it. Simple for even a baby to understand

gidgiddy:


It is you Nigerians who are talking about war, the Biafran agitators are talking about referendum.

The Biafran agitators can talk about referendum or anything else, they don't have the authority to achieve it. It is only the people with authority (political and traditional leaders) that can achieve it. A referendum has to first be inserted into our constitution before it can be considered.

The way forward is to allow the rule of law prevail. The Biafran agitators have been granted the right to agitate and protest for a separate state under extant laws. Whether their agitation will amount to anything is their business not yours, so stop drinking panadol over another person's headache

Please quote the extant laws that granted the right to agitate and protest for a separate state.

As at the time Ojukwu went to Aburi in January 1967, Nigeria had 4 Regions, the four Regions had resource control and fiscal responsibility, which are the basis of true federalism. The four Regions even had their own British Ambassadors. At Aburi, Ojukwu secured even more powers for the Regions by getting Regional Armies. All 4 Regions now had its own military force, which virtually turned Nigeria into a confederation of 4 powerful Regions and a weak centre in Lagos. This ensured that no Region could dominate another.

Debating with you guys is an exercise in lies and falsehood. You call what is clearly black, white.

At the time Ojukwu went to Aburi in Ghana, General Ironsi had converted the 4 autonomous regions into 4 unitary states under a military head of State. Decree 34 of 1966 was called the unification decree.

The accord of establishing 4 regional armies is impractical. A country cannot have regional armies. The minute a region has an army, it becomes an independent country. A confederation of states has one military and not seperated armies.

All that was required of Gowon was to return to Nigeria, conduct a constitutional conference or adopt the constitution Nigeria was operating before the Military came, conduct elections and return to the Barracks.

How would Gowon have conducted a constitutional conference on the eve of a war? A constitutional conference cannot be held in a day or even a few months. Most constitution conferences take years.

How do you expect the military to go back to the Barracks in the aftermath of the political upheavals caused by the January 1966 coup and the July counter coup, where military and political leaders of both sides has been murdered, and the igbo civilians that had been murdered in the north? Besides, that option was never discussed at Aburi.

But Gowon and his fellow Northerners simply did not like a system that ensured equity. They needed to do away with the ever powerful Regions and make the centre strong so as to control Nigeria. So Gowon did exactly that by enacting decree 14 that abolished the 4 Regions, replaced them with 12 weak states, and gave the centre so much powers. They only thing Gowon and his Northern cohorts never counted on was that Ojukwu and his people were not going to take it lying low like other Regions. The only options left for Ojukwu was to either accept decree 14, which other cowardly Regions did, or break from the system and fight for independence. It may not have worked out for Ojukwu and the Eastern Region but no apology for fighting for freedom in the face of enslavement. Thats what great people do

Thrash. It was General Ironsi's decree 34 that removed powers from the regions and concentrated it at the centre. Gowon simply built on what Ironsi created. He converted the 4 states created by Ironsi to 12 states.

When people talk about Ironsi's decree 34, I laugh. Despite Decree 34, the 4 Regions maintained their borders, enjoyed resource control and fiscal responsibility. But nobody wants to talk about Gowons decree 14 that was a hundred times worse, and took all of these things away. The only reason some people talk about decree 34 is because it was an Igbo man who enacted it, had it been a Northerner, those who talk about it would not.

'One Nigeria' is a joke

Please tell me how decree 14 took away resource control that decree 34 had not already taken away. I don't know how someone can support decree 34 but criticize decree 14. It doesn't make sense.

wirinet:

The Biafran agitators can talk about referendum or anything else, they don't have the authority to achieve it. It is only the people with authority (political and traditional leaders) that can achieve it. A referendum has to first be inserted into our constitution before it can be considered.

So if the agitators dont have the power to achieve referendum, why are you Nigerians bothered? Referendum does not have to be inserted into the constitution. A one time referendum can be ordered by the national assembly without it being inserted into the constitution. Adamawa became part of Nigeria by referendum in 1961, the Midwest Region was created by referendum in 1963, yet referendum has never been in the Nigerian constitution

Please quote the extant laws that granted the right to agitate and protest for a separate state.

Article 1 of the UN charter and Article 20, section 1 of the African Charter both grant all people the right to agitate for a separate state. Nigeria is a signatory to both charters. Also, chapter 4 of the Nigerian constitution grants everyone freedom of expression and protest. In other words, anyone is allowed to protest about anything. If I like, I can protest that I want Snow to fall in Sokoto.

Debating with you guys is an exercise in lies and falsehood. You call what is clearly black, white.

At the time Ojukwu went to Aburi in Ghana, General Ironsi had converted the 4 autonomous regions into 4 unitary states under a military head of State. Decree 34 of 1966 was called the unification decree.

This is the age old lie of the Lagos/Ibadan expressway media that Ironsi issued decree 34 and that this decree introduced unitary rule. To introduce unitary rule, one must take away resource control and fiscal federation. It is resource control that empowers the Regions and makes the centre weak. Ironsi did not divide the 4 Regions, he did not take away resource control and he maintained the revenue sharing formular and fiscal federation he met. The only thing decree 34 did was unify the civil service.

The accord of establishing 4 regional armies is impractical. A country cannot have regional armies. The minute a region has an army, it becomes an independent country. A confederation of states has one military and not seperated armies.

A country can have Regional Armies. Our colonial masters, Britain, has Regional Armies. The Scottish Army is called the Fusiliers, The Welsh Army are there. But they are all known as the British Army. Regional Armies were agreed at Aburi "for the period of military rule" as it was impractical to ask Eastern officers to go back to other parts of Nigeria where they had been slaughtered by their compatriots.

How would Gowon have conducted a constitutional conference on the eve of a war? A constitutional conference cannot be held in a day or even a few months. Most constitution conferences take years.

Aburi was in January 1967, the war did not start until 7 months later in July. Even GEJ orgased a constitutional conference that did not last up to 3 months. If Gowon wanted to host a constitutional conference, he could have done so within 6 months of Aburi. He was there for 9 years and did nothing

How do you expect the military to go back to the Barracks in the aftermath of the political upheavals caused by the January 1966 coup and the July counter coup, where military and political leaders of both sides has been murdered, and the igbo civilians that had been murdered in the north? Besides, that option was never discussed at Aburi.

That was why Regional Army was discussed and agreed at Aburi to allow everyone return to their Regions of origin for the period of military rule

Thrash. It was General Ironsi's decree 34 that removed powers from the regions and concentrated it at the centre. Gowon simply built on what Ironsi created. He converted the 4 states created by Ironsi to 12 states.



Please tell me how decree 14 took away resource control that decree 34 had not already taken away. I don't know how someone can support decree 34 but criticize decree 14. It doesn't make sense.

If you do not know, know it now. Decree 34, otherwise known as the unification decree, only unified the civil service. Unifying the civil service cannot take true federalism away and in any case, it would have been a minor issue when civilian rule returned and the Region's started making laws for themselves again. The 4 Regions maintained their boundaries, maintained the revenue sharing formular agreed at independence, had resource control, paid the agreed percentage to the centre and there was fiscal federation throughout Ironsi's tenure. These are the essential ingredients of true federalism because he Regions were the ones paying the Federal Government.

Gowons decree 14 abolished the 4 Regions, replaced them with 12 states, took away resource control, scrapped fiscal federation. Suddenly, it was the Federal Government paying the states, even to this day, and true federalism was dead

0monnak0da:
Lies left unanswered become truth

SOURCE??

Aburi accord was never signed by anyone.

Anyone with evidence to the the contrary should provide it

If Gowon signed it there must be a copy

Go and read history my friend

0monnak0da:

Not arrogant just realistic.
History has taught that we can count on you to work predictably against us politically in EVERY election in Nigerian history
Every I repeat
So from that perspective we would be foolish to add you in our political calculation as allies, quite the contrary
You did not vote for Abiola and did everything in your power to sabotage him. No one quarrelled with you at the time

Wow.
Tinubu hardly bothered to seek Yibbo votes