More explanation please .....

ibinaboonline:
I'm not surprised you brought these up. Okay, please pay attention. [You’re not going find this verse on a coffee mug at your local Christian bookstore. If we’re honest, it makes God sound unfair, doesn’t it? Especially when we take in to account that God’s treatment of Jacob and Esau is something he determined before they’d even been born “and had done nothing either good or bad” (Romans 9:11). So did God just decide to hate Esau for no good reason? How do we make sense of this?

We use the words “love” and “hate” today, usually to describe intense emotions. But we can’t assume that Paul uses them the same way that we might. Instead, he uses a Hebrew figure of speech that pairs absolute terms to stress contrast. Jesus does the same thing when he says that we cannot be his disciples unless we “hate” our families (Luke 14:26), whereas in Matthew 10:37 he simply warns us against loving them more than him.

Jesus, of course, talks about a way of life, not merely emotions. Similarly, rather than describing God’s emotions in this verse, Paul describes his actions. It’s important to remember this so that we don’t interpret this text as saying that God had an intense hatred of Esau (v. 13) before Esau ever gave God a reason to (v. 11).

Instead, “love” refers to God’s act of choosing Jacob, while “hate” refers to his not choosing Esau. He’s not saying that God chose Jacob because he loved him and rejected Esau because he hated him, but rather “Jacob I chose…Esau I It’s another way for Paul to say what he has been saying since verse 6. In conclusion, dont forget one of the most popular verse of scripture: FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY SON THAT WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE. Its crystal clear; God values the whole world.

I already wrote in that post that the hate, which is rejection also means love less. You really didn't have to restate like I missed it na.

Anyway

God's judgements are justified.

Jeremiah 1:5, Romans 8:30 the concept of predestination is hard to those who don't know God. I said know, I didn't say those who believe or don't believe He exists.

God knew Jeremiah before he was even formed in the womb. Can you grasp that for a moment.

God had already judged him a prophet even before he knew what breathing was, and God justified his judgement.

God have chosen men without giving any explanation other than he ordained it so. That he made it so. Meaning like some posted "acting according to script" His writings.

God so loved THE WORLD
not God so loved men or the people of the world

You won't find a single scripture that tells us God loves wicked and evil men.

It like another scripture I asked about, "world without end" but sir this world is said to end. This is where we need to understand what world means. Because there are phrases in the scripture that refers to different worlds, the world of men and the world that is of God.

If you read the posts in this link
https://www.nairaland.com/5680837/seen-kingdom-god

You will understand Jesus didn't die for everyone. John 3:16 those who believe

Those who believe are those who God reveals Himself to. So you see God has been choosing and deciding for a long time. That explains what John says "those who left where NEVER a part of us"

Jesus said those who come are brought by the Father. He also said it is not in man to save himself.

Picture something already decided from the foundation of the world, names already written. Numbers already recorded. Everything already planned out.

We are not speaking about probability here but certainty.

I don't disagree that God values the whole world but I disagree that God values every human the same because many will perish because they are not of God and never were.

tejpot:

I have not come here to assert that my religion is the right or yours is the wrong. Whether there be knowledge or prophesies or tongues that people have portrayed to have originated from their religion, they will all fail. Only one thing will stand, LOVE. Love for God and love for fellow human.

I have replied someone else that, God deals with everyone based on the specific instructions he has given them and it all boils down to that summarized commandment.

In love there is no religion!

And where/how did you come about to assert "God and the how he deals with everyone?

Hope its not from your religious text?

ibinaboonline:
"Repent" in that verse is the same as "changed his mind". You see, God does not change His mind or repent because He's not man, and at the same time God can change His mind. Let me explain. God made Saul king because He believed in Saul and knew His potential, but Saul underperformed, to say the least. Read all of that story and you'd see God's comments to Saul; even though you look down on yourself, have I not made you leader over Israel? So you see, Saul belittled the responsibility God placed on him and that broke God's heart so that even though He had made Saul king, God turned around 'repented' from Saul's continued dynasty.

Saul represents man's choice, man's desire and was bound to fail, whenever man choices there's always results in problems.

For example Lot choose Sodom and Gomorrah while God choice for Abraham.

Widall:
I also need an explanation of this. Cos he is a perfect God, why should He now repent?

I realize that Jacob already said that the king will come from Judah so from time it was the plan, picking a king from another tribe was just to teach a lesson.

BlueAngel444:

God does make mistakes

I say, 'My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.' - God speaking

The question now is why?

Simple answer, because He is God. So simple yet so hard for some to fathom

And men who want to be God tend to want to act like this, do whatever they want, as if they created themselves for their own purposes.

That desire Eve had to do whatever, to be like God. Not to do the purpose God made for her.

God does not make mistakes. Period

fyneboi79:
So God endorses mistakes even though he knows the outcome will be regrettable and detrimental to his reputation as an all knowing Spirit being God!? Human will over Gods will?

God doesn't o

A times what we call mistakes are due to our own misunderstanding.

fyneboi79:
Christianity is the most illogical set of thoughts imposed on fools through fear.

Every religion is so

But what about thoughts based on truth and the right faith?

Is it clarity, simple and understandable, for the right faith is the right spirit.

Neroiam:

God does not make mistakes. Period

thanks that was a typo

tejpot:
Yes the Lord repented not as humans will. 'Repented' in this case simply means in a sorry state or in a state of grieve.

This same statement was also made in Genesis 6:6 when God was in a state of grieve for making man.

In any case God's plan is always accomplished, though he was disappointed but never surprised because there is eternal plan for whatever man's action brings.


Edited:


I have not come here to assert that my religion is the right or yours is the wrong. Whether there be knowledge or prophesies or tongues that people have portrayed to have originated from their religion, they will all fail. Only one thing will stand, LOVE. Love for God and love for fellow human.

I have replied someone else that, God deals with everyone based on the specific instructions he has given them and it all boils down to that summarized commandment.

In love there is no religion!



The evidence of seeing and knowing the future is in the provision of a contingency plan.
All knowing is not just a description, it is an evidential description. He has a suitable plan for every eventuality, that's an apt description of an 'all knowing' entity.

sir! there is no how you can try to justified the word "repented" that's derogative word to Almighty God. even our so called king on earth don't regret their action according to the tradition of British and French kingships how much more God Himself . those are the human errors in tales telling.

Reality11:


And where/how did you come about to assert "God and the how he deals with everyone?

Hope its not from your religious text?

The Holy Scripture is my guiding principle and if that's what you refer to as my religious text, yes.

Uyi168:
..
Was he not supposed to know the outcome of making saul king..

God knew

Infact if you read 2 kings 8:8-13 when Elisha was anointing a king as instructed by the Lord (a king God even mentioned to Elijah in 1 kings 19:15) Elisha told Hazael in verse 12 all the evil he would do

Yet God asked his prophet to anoint him, or what about Jehu.

God is all knowing and that my friend is fearful

jcross19:
sir! there is no how you can try to justified the word "repented" that's derogative word to Almighty God. even our so called king on earth don't regret their action according to the tradition of British and French kingships how much more God Himself . those are the human errors in tales telling.

Thank you so much for your observations sir!

BlueAngel444:


Saul represents man's choice, man's desire and was bound to fail, whenever man choices there's always results in problems.

For example Lot choose Sodom and Gomorrah while God choice for Abraham.




I realize that Jacob already said that the king will come from Judah so from time it was the plan, picking a king from another tribe was just to teach a lesson.

I read the place again I did not see what Saul did that's bad! Samuel was a greedy fellow wanted to be ruling Israelite through Saul and Saul did not allow him to do, how can commanded a man to go and wipe off a community because they did not allow them to passed through when they were coming from Egypt ! in fact that god is evil no different between such god and boko haram.

Mikehot:
How does he change the choice of a people when he gave them a free will in the first place.

If he wanted people he could override their decisions and abilities to think he could have made us all like the animals case closed

you means animals those without God's command

Because animals think o,

tejpot:

Thank you so much for your observations sir!

The God that chose you all the way from womb? so op is telling me that God is making mistake ? that word repented is a word from a weaken spirit.

jcross19:
I read the place again I did not see what Saul did that's bad! Samuel was a greedy fellow wanted to be ruling Israelite through Saul and Saul did not allow him to do, how can commanded a man to go and wipe off a community because they did not allow them to passed through when they were coming from Egypt ! in fact that god is evil no different between such god and boko haram.

Lol, this thing you just said now reminds me of a comment that Samuel was angry that the people rejected him for Saul so cursed him

But that's not what happened nor the point.

anyway what I get is, irrespective Saul would have definitely made a mistake that would lead to his rejection because God's plan had to do with the tribe of Judah

And not just any mistake, but going against God's direct command, something David with all his faults never did.

ibinaboonline:
It doesn't cease to amaze me...you must think you're been smart. Tell me, when people tell you to bend down and pay attention, does it mean you should literally bend your neck? Don't you think the allusion that God came down may not be literal?

Rolling my eyes. A god that is scared of the unity of humans?

BlueAngel444:

Lol, this thing you just said now reminds me of a comment that Samuel was angry that the people rejected him for Saul so cursed him

But that's not what happened nor the point.

anyway what I get is, irrespective Saul would have definitely made a mistake that would lead to his rejection because God's plan had to do with the tribe of Judah

And not just any mistake, but going against God's direct command, something David with all his faults never did.

forget about the plan of God after Solomon ten tribe was taken away from Judah did that continue with the plan of God when the Israel was divided into two! the issue is that Samuel was greedy man. do you know that Samuel want to play God when he anointed David at the age of 14 years thinking Saul will die then he could be ruling the Israelites through young David but kept Saul on the throne till Samuel died before David was ascended to the throne.

liveyourlife007:
SO GOD CAN BEND TO THE WILL OF MAN. I SEE THAT AS WEAKNESS

nah, God doesn't

Lemme give you an example the SAINTS, not men o, were praying to God in the book of revelation6:10 on how long till he judges their death and God told them to wait FOR HIS PLAN.

Jesus prayed, sweated blood self and God didn't change his mind on him dying.

Bacteriologist:


I personally don't understand how this simple concept eludes you guys.

An all-knowing creator and a free-willed creation cannot coexist.


God ALREADY KNOWS what will happen. Including what YOU will DO. So that's not actually free will.

You're just acting out what God preknew and predetermined.

In the Christian (Abrahamic god) worldview, free will cannot exist.

My point exactly

Alitair:


But God sees the future. How didn't he see both Saul and humans going astray..?

Jesus that saw his disciples flee and scatter or one of his favorite peter deny him, and that billions will still reject him till went and died on the cross



I believe the better term isn't God sees the future but that Go writes the future, predestines it, predetermines it.

AbdulHakeem44:

You dey mind their Yeye god, how can a knowledgeable God repent or be sorry for His actions, that's one of the useless qualities that the Bible attributed to God which ALlāh had corrected in the Qur'an, AlhamduliLlāh.

Do you even understand what is means to repent or you just swallow whatever you're told

wait so Allah corrected the yeye god? You religious folks are very confused with ur pride for supremacy

Mikehot:
Regretted is the meaning

And if you check further than that verse you would understand it was justified.

Btw, it was the children of Israel that lamented they needed a king to be like other nations too.

God already had his plan for them but since they couldn't wait he sent Samuel to annoint their choice for them so it wasn't his own choice he regretted on.


God gave man the freewill to make choice, think and make decisions and if he wanted to be overiding the choice of man because he has all powers then he would have made us like animals instead.

God having power over past and present doesn't mean man's freewill and choices doesn't shape what the future becomes just like Adam and Eve did, just like Abraham did with haggi etc

You were almost hitting the nail on the head but for the freewill statement no man on this Earth ha free will

ibinaboonline:
Samuel said to Saul; God is not man that He should lie, He is not a human being that He should change His mind 'repent.' It shows that God does not stop being who He is. He is never wrong. But God can change or repent His decision, not because He made a mistake but because men make mistakes. You should marvel at the incredible love and respect God has for man. God could have decided to create man as robotic beings who'd never digress from the path God set them on, instead God made man exactly like Himself- giving them freewill to make our own decisions. If you think God made a mistake by giving human freewill, then you and I need a deeper Bible study we can't do here. Be it as it may, man has freewill, and because man is often swinging from left to right, God is often making adjustments in His decisions. God does not change but He could change His decisions.

Saying that God repents for man's deed is saying God is responsible for man's deed, but then you say man has free will.

Sir if you do have such a deep understanding of the bible I have a question for you
how can you trust a God that changes his decision.?

Because my God doesn't change his mind, what he says he will do he will definitely do it.

Emiluv77:


You were almost hitting the nail on the head but for the freewill statement no man on this Earth ha free will

Exactly

tejpot:

The Holy Scripture is my guiding principle and if that's what you refer to as my religious text, yes.

Holy scripture which has a lot of contradiction, inconsistencies, unbelievable stories that can't stand scrutiny, logic, reason and common sense which you also agreed

Is the basis of your guiding principal?
Please which of the holy scriptures? And why not others?

bewla:
Sorry does that mean god does not always no the end reaction of thing he made or create

that mean no hell



if he decides to send me to hell I can appeal my case abi

lol,

When they think "Let us reason together says the Lord" means anything other than shut up, listen, learn and gain understanding like children reasoning with their father

Reality11:


Holy scripture which has a lot of contradiction, inconsistencies, unbelievable stories that can't stand scrutiny, logic, reason and common sense which you also agreed

Is the basis of your guiding principal?
Please which of the holy scriptures? And why not others?

Yes, it is. Does that offend anyone in anyway? Or is there a rule I am missing out that says, it's inhumane to have a guiding principle. By following this principle, perhaps I brake any law, then the law takes its course.

tejpot:


Yes, it is. Does that offend anyone in anyway? Or is there a rule I am missing out that says, it's inhumane to have a guiding principle. By following this principle, perhaps I brake any law, then the law takes its course.

If your guiding principal is flawed with contradictions, inconsistencies and lies shouldn't it bothers you?

BlueAngel444:
hmm, interesting.

This question eh wow. The mind of God or the will of God are they different or does it mean the same thing to you?

they both mean 'desire'

Just trying to put it a way everyone will understand

BlueAngel444:

inconsistencies in the Bible are mainly due to misinterpretation and misunderstandings

misinterpretations and misunderstanding means then a possibility of the "judgment day" not holding because it nullifies personal accountability due to
biblical misconceptions about Gods true intentions.

I wonder if you're even following the discussion at all.

BlueAngel444:


Saying that God repents for man's deed is saying God is responsible for man's deed, but then you say man has free will.

Sir if you do have such a deep understanding of the bible I have a question for you
how can you trust a God that changes his decision.?

Because my God doesn't change his mind, what he says he will do he will definitely do it.