The Oba of Lagos (a Yoruba) has already concured with the Oba of Benin that Yoruba is an offshoot of Benin.

Tippy Top:


Need I tell you the author of the above implies Ghana Empire  morphed into what is today the Republic of Ghana. Are you dumb?
I dey laugh!!!

                       
                                                        PEACE OUT!!!

The author did not imply anything like old Ghana Empire morphing into modern day Ghana!! That would have been more ridiculous than your initial gaffe!!

Can you read?

Aigbofa:

The author did not imply anything like old Ghana Empire morphing into modern day Ghana!! That would have been more ridiculous than your initial gaffe!!

Can you read?

Are you this slow in grasping issues? My friend am going to let you keep what dignity you have left.  Is it necessary to debate technicality? If it is, then I shall really humiliate you by posting what you have posted. This thread is not several pages long so dare me at your indignity.

"The Republic of Ghana is named after the medieval West African Ghana Empire".

Every race under the Sun comes from Benin.

"When OSAN'OBUWA ( God, the Creator) finished creation, He decided to send his sons to live on earth. Before they departed, He asked each one to take along a talent or a gift. Among the talents were wealth, knowledge wisdom and an old snail shell. One of the sons chose wealth, another knowledge,and another wisdom. When the youngest was to choose, only the old snail shell and a couple of nondescript items were left. As he wondered which to take, a hornbill emerged and whispered to him to choose the dirty, old snail shell. What would he do with an old snail shell? But he obeyed the hornbill and told OSA N'BUWA he wanted the shell. They set forth on their journey, each in his boat. They arrived at their destination and found it was water. The boats could not berth. The hornbill appeared again and told him to pour the shell's content into the water. As he did so, the water solidified: land emerged and rolled forth into the distance. He anchored his boat and stepped onto TERRA FIRMER. OSA N'BUWA was impressed by the intuition which made his youngest son choose the shell. God named the land EDO and made him king over it."

From Benin Oral History.

You appear to be the slow one. Otherwise read the quote again:

[size=14pt]"The Republic of Ghana is named after the medieval West African Ghana Empire".[/size]

Named after doesn't mean related to - otherwise all Nigerians with the name John, Jonathan, David etc are Jews. Get it?

Tippy Top:

Are you this slow in grasping issues? My friend am going to let you keep what dignity you have left.  Is it necessary to debate technicality? If it is, then I shall really humiliate you by posting what you have posted. This thread is not several pages long so dare me at your indignity.

"The Republic of Ghana is named after the medieval West African Ghana Empire".

Need I tell you the author of the above implies Ghana Empire morphed into what is today the Republic of Ghana.

wow, such a daft statement.

koruji:

You appear to be the slow one. Otherwise read the quote again:

[size=14pt]"The Republic of Ghana is named after the medieval West African Ghana Empire".[/size]

Named after doesn't mean related to - otherwise all Nigerians with the name John, Jonathan, David etc are Jews. Get it?

You must be a fool if you can't discern why you're called what you're called. If you're called any of the names above it means your Father wants you to be like e.g John the Baptist. Why didn't your father give you a Hindu name? Why did he choose a Christian name rather than a Muslim name?

Your handle is tippy top, I guess you must be related to a three legged table!

Dumb azz.

Tippy Top:

You must be a fool if you can't discern why you're called what you're called. If you're called any of the names above it means your Father wants you to be like e.g John the Baptist. Why didn't your father give you a Hindu name? Why did he choose a Christian name rather than a Muslim name?

You are in for an uphill task dealing with straight-jacketed tribalists who bandy together and argue blindly together.

Meanwhile, do not let them derail the topic of this thread.  Your goal is to remind them that Oduduwa, the Yoruba progenitor, was a runaway Bini prince. Thus, Bini was superior to Yoruba

tpia1:

wow, such a daft statement.

I normally won't give you an undeserved requisite gravitas by answering you but hey, it's the Xmas season.
Now which statement are you actually refering to? Is it the quoted sentence or my attempt in explaining the quote?



PS
Is this where you tell me to go fukkk myself and yadayadayada?

omongbati3:

You are in for an uphill task dealing with straight-jacketed tribalists who bandy together and argue blindly together.

Meanwhile, do not let them derail the topic of this thread.  Your goal is to remind them that Oduduwa, the Yoruba progenitor, was a runaway Bini prince. Thus, Bini was superior to Yoruba

No mind these fools ja re. Lol!!

Tippy Top:

I normally won't give you an undeserved requisite gravitas by answering you but hey, it's the Xmas season.
Now which statement are you actually refering to? Is it the quoted sentence or my attempt in explaining the quote?

PS
Is this where you tell me to go fukkk myself and yadayadayada?

They are only trying to help you.

Yoruba cannot be an "offshoot" of Benin though. I don't believe that is what people are really trying to say. It's really all about the monarchies. Edos and Yoruba and Igbo and other groups were all previously part of one large group before the split anyways.

Jacob Egharevba, the main source of the idea that the Eweka dynasty had its origins in Ife, was of partially Yoruba descent (part Edo-Akure) and his mentors were Yorubas historians and that is why his attempt to link Benin and Ife in the particular manner he did is viewed with skepticism by some other Binis. Not to say his idea was some extremely unreasonable one, but his actual idea has also been used and misinterpreted and even completely distorted by some to play a game of "who born who" which could actually not even apply based on the version of the story Egharevba gave.

Egharevba came up with multiple versions of how the post-Ogiso Benin dynasty started, however the one thing he stuck by in his final versions was that Oduduwa came from the Sudan to found Ife and then one of his descendants was called to Benin. In some of the earlier versions he is from Egypt, but a later one claims Sudan. The basic idea though is that he is from somewhere which already had higher "civilization" (Nubia/Sudan or Egypt). So basically Oduduwa might be called by a Yoruba name by Yorubas, and the Binis have their own name based on their belief of who he was (a banished prince), but Egharevba, the architect of this idea that Oduduwa started the post-Ogiso Benin dynasty, had actually claimed that he was neither Yoruba or Bini, but from somewhere else  to the East. This important detail is usually lost on those who want to play "who born who" games.

Basically the claim of Egharevba is something like that the Obas of Benin and Yorubaland are descendants of some Nubian/Sudan prince. I think it's pretty easy to see where black nationalist pride in Nubia or "black" Egypt and a desire to associate West African civilizations with these civilizations played a role in him forming his theories. My main point though is that if you believe Egharevba's claim over Oba Erediauwa's claim, you also believe that Ife was not founded by a Yoruba man or a Bini man, but by a black African from an already established civilization to the East, so you can't even play the game of "who fathered who." I should also point out that part of Egharevba's claim is surprisingly logical and even possible (despite Egharevba's lack of rigor and his tendency to constantly change and revise things), since a prince from a more technologically advanced civilization could easily come in and be seen as a powerful figure and be able to become king of innocent and undeveloped groups. The version of history advocated by Oba Erediauwa makes no appeals to chance migrations of princes from the Sudan however but from what is known about local (Nigerian) cities, towns, and kingdoms.

(I should also point out that the tale of Oduduwa being a banished Bini prince did NOT originate from Oba Erediauwa. The Oba was just bringing people's attention to something that had been published over half a century ago and had been an oral story long before that and pointing out the glaring contradictions between Egharevba's original and revised version and known Yoruba history. One CANNOT accept Egharevba's unrevised, or even his revised version, unless one distorts already known Yoruba history written by Yorubas and makes the youngest son Oranyan/Oranmiyan into the oldest son and makes Ife not have had rulers before Oduduwa, making Ife actually much younger than Benin which had had Ogisos for hundreds of years.)

(edited slightly)

PhysicsQED:

Yoruba cannot be an "offshoot" of Benin though. I don't believe that is what people are really trying to say. It's really all about the monarchies. Edos and Yoruba and Igbo and other groups were all previously part of one large group before the split anyways.

Jacob Egharevba, the main source of the idea that the Eweka dynasty had its origins in Ife, was of partially Yoruba descent (part Edo-Akure) and his mentors were Yorubas historians and that is why his attempt to link Benin and Ife in the particular manner he did is viewed with skepticism by some other Binis. Not to say his idea was some extremely unreasonable one, but his actual idea has also been used and misinterpreted and even completely distorted by some to play a game of "who born who" which could actually not even apply based on the version of the story Egharevba gave.

Egharevba came up with multiple versions of how the post-Ogiso Benin dynasty started, however the one thing he stuck by in his final versions was that Oduduwa came from the Sudan to found Ife and then one of his descendants was called to Benin. In some of the earlier versions he is from Egypt, but a later one claims Sudan. The basic idea though is that he is from somewhere which already had higher "civilization" (Nubia/Sudan or Egypt). So basically Oduduwa might be called by a Yoruba name by Yorubas, and the Binis have their own name based on their belief of who he was (a banished prince), but Egharevba, the architect of this idea that Oduduwa started the post-Ogiso Benin dynasty, had actually claimed that he was neither Yoruba or Bini, but from somewhere else to the East. This important detail is usually lost on those who want to play "who born who" games.

Basically the claim of Egharevba is something like that the Obas of Benin and Yorubaland are descendants of some Nubian/Sudan prince. I think it's pretty easy to see where black nationalist pride in Nubia or "black" Egypt and a desire to associate West African civilizations with these civilizations played a role in him forming his theories. My main point though is that if you believe Egharevba's claim over Oba Erediauwa's claim, you also believe that Ife was not founded by a Yoruba man or a Bini man, but by a black African from an already established civilization to the East, so you can't even play the game of "who fathered who." I should also point out that Egharevba's claim is surprisingly logical and even possible (despite Egharevba's lack of rigor and his tendency to constantly change and revise things), since a prince from a more technologically advanced civilization could easily come in and be seen as a powerful figure and be able to become king of innocent and undeveloped groups. The version of history advocated by Oba Erediauwa makes no appeals to chance migrations of princes from the Sudan however but from what is known about local (Nigerian) cities, towns, and kingdoms.

(I should also point out that the tale of Oduduwa being a banished Bini prince did NOT originate from Oba Erediauwa. The Oba was just bringing people's attention to something that had been published over half a century ago and had been an oral story long before that and pointing out the glaring contradictions between Egharevba's original and revised version and known Yoruba history. One CANNOT accept Egharevba's unrevised, or even his revised version, unless one distorts already known Yoruba history written by Yorubas and makes the youngest son Oranyan/Oranmiyan into the oldest son and makes Ife not have had rulers before Oduduwa, making Ife actually much younger than Benin which had had Ogisos for hundreds of years.)

So, in summary, Bini was superior to Yoruba as founded by Oduduwa, not so?

@omongbati3
Count me out of the mad gibberish you 've being spewing over here for the last few days. You don't want to go there. Ok!

@Tippy Top
Happy marriage to your friend omo-to-fe-je-igbati. At first I thought you could read and write. Didn't realize you are one of those that eat in reverse. [size=14pt]According to you, if your name is john then john the baptist morphed (that is the word you used) into you[/size] - better hold a dictionary before you write or accept a mistake when you make one. Otherwise, you are in the garbage can like your new friend a-je-gbati-yo.

Tippy Top:

You must be a fool if you can't discern why you're called what you're called. If you're called any of the names above it means your Father wants you to be like e.g John the Baptist. Why didn't your father give you a Hindu name? Why did he choose a Christian name rather than a Muslim name?

omongbati3:

You are in for an uphill task dealing with straight-jacketed tribalists who bandy together and argue blindly together.

Meanwhile, do not let them derail the topic of this thread.  Your goal is to remind them that Oduduwa, the Yoruba progenitor, was a runaway Bini prince. Thus, Bini was superior to Yoruba

Aigbofa:


They are only trying to help you.

Oya go and take your medication and go to bed, (yes you) and please take your horde of loonies with you.

@PhysicsQED
Great insight but I shall get back to you.

koruji:

@omongbati3
Count me out of the mad gibberish you 've being spewing over here for the last few days. You don't want to go there. Ok!

@Tippy Top
Happy marriage to your friend omo-to-fe-je-igbati. At first I thought you could read and write. Didn't realize you are one of those that eat in reverse. [size=14pt]According to you, if your name is john then john the baptist morphed (that is the word you used) into you[/size] - better hold a dictionary before you write or accept a mistake when you make one. Otherwise, you are in the garbage can like your new friend a-je-gbati-yo.

Haba chief
I have better use of my time than play with semantics.
About to have an intellectual debate with PhysicsQED. Now go to bed. (Don't forget your medication).

koruji:

@omongbati3
Count me out of the mad gibberish you 've being spewing over here for the last few days. You don't want to go there. Ok!

@Tippy Top
Happy marriage to your friend omo-to-fe-je-igbati. At first I thought you could read and write. Didn't realize you are one of those that eat in reverse. [size=14pt]According to you, if your name is john then john the baptist morphed (that is the word you used) into you[/size] - better hold a dictionary before you write or accept a mistake when you make one. Otherwise, you are in the garbage can like your new friend a-je-gbati-yo.

Craze dey worry you? I go wozz ya Yoruba face now. Who dey follow you se ere?

Tippy Top:

Haba chief
I have better use of my time than play with semantics.
About to have an intellectual debate with PhysicsQED. Now go to bed. (Don't forget your medication).

This is not even about semantics, this is about your wacky logic. If you still don't get it; Read this again.

According to you, if your name is john then john the baptist morphed (that is the word you used) into you

LOL

@PhysicsQED
Nice write-up. Africa in general suffers from our unwritten ancient history. We relied on memory to pass on our history, but that process only required one major upheaval to be totally disrupted. We need to reestablish broad developments on the continent over millenia and centuries before we can even begin to sort out the whoof who of events that may only take years. As you rightly pointed out the proponents of the Benin origin of Yoruba would like to play history in reverse by suggesting the Yoruba empire was younger than Benin. What I found really incredible about the story of Ekaladerhan being Oduduwa is the almost impossible compression of events that would require at least half a century into a few years.

As for the OP & his Tipsy supporter on this thread I am afraid they are not interested in any real discussion.

PhysicsQED:

Yoruba cannot be an "offshoot" of Benin though. I don't believe that is what people are really trying to say. It's really all about the monarchies. Edos and Yoruba and Igbo and other groups were all previously part of one large group before the split anyways.

Jacob Egharevba, the main source of the idea that the Eweka dynasty had its origins in Ife, was of partially Yoruba descent (part Edo-Akure) and his mentors were Yorubas historians and that is why his attempt to link Benin and Ife in the particular manner he did is viewed with skepticism by some other Binis. Not to say his idea was some extremely unreasonable one, but his actual idea has also been used and misinterpreted and even completely distorted by some to play a game of "who born who" which could actually not even apply based on the version of the story Egharevba gave.

Egharevba came up with multiple versions of how the post-Ogiso Benin dynasty started, however the one thing he stuck by in his final versions was that Oduduwa came from the Sudan to found Ife and then one of his descendants was called to Benin. In some of the earlier versions he is from Egypt, but a later one claims Sudan. The basic idea though is that he is from somewhere which already had higher "civilization" (Nubia/Sudan or Egypt). So basically Oduduwa might be called by a Yoruba name by Yorubas, and the Binis have their own name based on their belief of who he was (a banished prince), but Egharevba, the architect of this idea that Oduduwa started the post-Ogiso Benin dynasty, had actually claimed that he was neither Yoruba or Bini, but from somewhere else  to the East. This important detail is usually lost on those who want to play "who born who" games.

Basically the claim of Egharevba is something like that the Obas of Benin and Yorubaland are descendants of some Nubian/Sudan prince. I think it's pretty easy to see where black nationalist pride in Nubia or "black" Egypt and a desire to associate West African civilizations with these civilizations played a role in him forming his theories. My main point though is that if you believe Egharevba's claim over Oba Erediauwa's claim, you also believe that Ife was not founded by a Yoruba man or a Bini man, but by a black African from an already established civilization to the East, so you can't even play the game of "who fathered who." I should also point out that Egharevba's claim is surprisingly logical and even possible (despite Egharevba's lack of rigor and his tendency to constantly change and revise things), since a prince from a more technologically advanced civilization could easily come in and be seen as a powerful figure and be able to become king of innocent and undeveloped groups. The version of history advocated by Oba Erediauwa makes no appeals to chance migrations of princes from the Sudan however but from what is known about local (Nigerian) cities, towns, and kingdoms.

(I should also point out that the tale of Oduduwa being a banished Bini prince did NOT originate from Oba Erediauwa. The Oba was just bringing people's attention to something that had been published over half a century ago and had been an oral story long before that and pointing out the glaring contradictions between Egharevba's original and revised version and known Yoruba history. One CANNOT accept Egharevba's unrevised, or even his revised version, unless one distorts already known Yoruba history written by Yorubas and makes the youngest son Oranyan/Oranmiyan into the oldest son and makes Ife not have had rulers before Oduduwa, making Ife actually much younger than Benin which had had Ogisos for hundreds of years.)

I am sure you are one of those drool-in-the-mouth-mad-dogs of NL hiding under a new name, so don't let us play that game.

Just take your jazz and keep it to yourself. Go find a tree to bite.

omongbati3:

Craze dey worry you? I go wozz ya Yoruba face now. Who dey follow you se ere?

Shame PhysicsQED has left and am off too, the inmates are taking over the asylum called nairaland. 

@omongbati3
Wishing you a happy New Year.




                                                       PEACE OUT!!!

Tippy Top:

Shame PhysicsQED has and am off too, before the inmates take over this asylum called nairaland. 

@omongbati3
Wishing you a happy New Year.




                                                       PEACE OUT!!!

Limp along my friend. Go nurse your bruises.

Happy New Year to you too.

In Egharevba's original version, he even claims that Ogisos were founded when Oduduwa sent one of his sons to found Benin.

In reality, Binis had defensive earthworks in place and being built long before the Eweka dynasty came about in the late 12th century AD, contradicting the idea that no centers of power or rulers existed before Oduduwa sent the founder of the Eweka dynasty to Benin. More problematic still, the Urhobos, and Esan had numerous oral stories about the Ogisos and the Ogisos figure prominently in long established Urhobo oral stories (see Peter Ekeh's writings on the subject) even though the Urhobos and Binis had diverged from one another long before the Eweka dynasty. This suggests that the Ogisos could not have come about as a result of the new Oduduwa-born dynasty contrary to the claims in the first version of Egharevba's story.

Egharevba's first (unrevised) story is implausible and counterfactual. So one cannot build castles of "who born who" claims upon that first story.

The revised story claims a Sudan connection and another one involves an Egyptian connection, so one cannot build "who born who" claims upon that story.

I hope some of the confusion can cease here and some of the unsupported assertions on either side, Bini or Yoruba, can cease. Each person can believe what they want, but the point is to let those who believe Egharevba's story know the contradictions to reality in the original version or the unprovable assumptions about Nubian/Sudanese or Egyptian princes in the revised versions to which they are agreeing with and giving their assent, whichever version they believe. I don't believe either of Egharevba's versions, but I also don't assert that Bini founded Yoruba monarchies or anything like that.

Oba Erediauwa's version puts forward a better argument, yet the reality is that Oba Erediauwa also isn't actually claiming that Oduduwa founded Yoruba monarchies, but that Yoruba kings had already been existing in multiple communities and he is even pointing out that there were even kings in Ife prior to Oduduwa (which, if one rejects, suggests that Ife monarchy and civilization is younger than Benin, which nobody would agree with).

Egharevba's original version is inaccurate and implausible on critical points and his final version is actually against the idea of "Yoruba fathered Benin" that some have been trying to make it into.

The version which Oba Erediauwa has recently advocated is clearly against the idea that "Benin fathered Yoruba" but some have been trying to make it into that.

I hope people can see that whatever they wish to believe, they should read and analyze, in detail, the arguments of either side and not reduce them to simple this one fathered that one arguments as has been happening for a while now.

So sad Igbo boy is looking for Edo supporter to bash the Yorubas?
Are the Yorubas getting too much?

PhysicsQED:

In Egharevba's original version, he even claims that Ogisos were founded when Oduduwa sent one of his sons to found Benin.

In reality, Binis had defensive earthworks in place and being built long before the Eweka dynasty came about in the late 12th century AD, contradicting the idea that no centers of power or rulers existed before Oduduwa sent the founder of the Eweka dynasty to Benin. More problematic still, the Urhobos, and Esan had numerous oral stories about the Ogisos and the Ogisos figure prominently in long established Urhobo oral stories (see Peter Ekeh's writings on the subject) even though the Urhobos and Binis had diverged from one another long before the Eweka dynasty. This suggests that the Ogisos could not have come about as a result of the new Oduduwa-born dynasty contrary to the claims in the first version of Egharevba's story.

Egharevba's first (unrevised) story is implausible and counterfactual. So one cannot build castles of "who born who" claims upon that first story.

The revised story claims a Sudan connection and another one involves an Egyptian connection, so one cannot build "who born who" claims upon that story.

I hope some of the confusion can cease here and some of the unsupported assertions on either side, Bini or Yoruba, can cease. Each person can believe what they want, but the point is to let those who believe Egharevba's story know the contradictions to reality in the original version or the unprovable assumptions about Nubian/Sudanese or Egyptian princes in the revised versions to which they are agreeing with and giving their assent, whichever version they believe. I don't believe either of Egharevba's versions, but I also don't assert that Bini founded Yoruba monarchies or anything like that.

Oba Erediauwa's version puts forward a better argument, yet the reality is that Oba Erediauwa also isn't actually claiming that Oduduwa founded Yoruba monarchies, but that Yoruba kings had already been existing in multiple communities and he is even pointing out that there were even kings in Ife prior to Oduduwa (which, if one rejects, suggests that Ife monarchy and civilization is younger than Benin, which nobody would agree with).

Egharevba's original version is inaccurate and implausible on critical points and his final version is actually against the idea of "Yoruba fathered Benin" that some have been trying to make it into.

The version which Oba Erediauwa has recently advocated is clearly against the idea that "Benin fathered Yoruba" but some have been trying to make it into that.

I hope people can see that whatever they wish to believe, they should read and analyze, in detail, the arguments of either side and not reduce them to simple this one fathered that one arguments as has been happening for a while now.

Very good post. Just to add that there were several rulers in Yoruba land before Oduduwa arrived at Ife. The ruler at Ife when Oduduwa arrived was called Oreluere which is clearly a Yoruba name. Whether Oduduwa arrived from Igodomigodo as EKALADERHAN or from Nubia/Arabia, he can not be the progenitor of the Yoruba people. Its like arguing that William the conqueror is the progenitor of the English people simply because he conquered England.

I would like to know which of these 2 main kingdoms (talking of the main Yoruba kingdom at that time and the Bini kingdom) is the oldest?

So no one is an answer?

I haven't yet found the picture of a late Oba of Benin I wanted to post (to compare his royal robes to the Oba of Lagos'), but I found some others.

Depiction of Oduduwa.  I don't know if he really looked like that, but I remember reading he was really handsome, dark-skinned, and "shiny."   
http://www.edo-nation.net/ekal.htm

What the heck happened with this Oba?
http://www.edo-nation.net/ovon2.htm
I think this is him here:
http://www.edo-nation.net/ovon.htm

One of the crackers that looted our continent whose thieving descendants are now trying to make billions off our heritage.  At least I'm not bitter! 
http://www.edo-nation.net/expedition8.htm

Look how they did us? 
http://www.edo-nation.net/expedition5.htm
http://www.edo-nation.net/expedition4.htm

Some more pictures here:
http://www.edo-nation.net/pic.htm

Some more related items on this site:
http://www.dawodu.net/

honeric01:

I would like to know which of these 2 main kingdoms (talking of the main Yoruba kingdom at that time and the Bini kingdom) is the oldest?

There were several Yoruba Kingdoms but there was one Benin Kingdom. It is difficult to ascertain which Kingdoms came first. We know Oranmiyan did not found Benin and we also know that there were Yoruba people at Ife under Oreluere before Oduduwa arrived at Ife. In fact there were at least five documented rulers at Ife before Oduduwa. At Benin, the First Ogiso (King) was Igodo and the 31st Ogiso was Owodo who also happened to be Ekaladerhan's father and the last Ogiso before Oba Eweka the 1ST.

According to Oral traditions, Orunmila is the father of the Yoruba and he had 16 children whom he sent to rule over 16 Yoruba kingdoms including Bini (originally called Ado). Without knowing which of the kids were sent out first and where to, I can't ascertain yet which kingdom came first. But my research continues.

isale_gan2:



What the heck happened with this Oba?
http://www.edo-nation.net/ovon2.htm
I think this is him here:
http://www.edo-nation.net/ovon.htm

Oba Ovonramwen was the Oba of Benin when the British sacked Benin in 1897 in what would be known as the Punitive Expedition. He was exiled to Calabar where he would live until his death in 1914.

koruji:

@PhysicsQED
Nice write-up. Africa in general suffers from our unwritten ancient history. We relied on memory to pass on our history, but that process only required one major upheaval to be totally disrupted. We need to reestablish broad developments on the continent over millenia and centuries before we can even begin to sort out the whoof who of events that may only take years. As you rightly pointed out the proponents of the Benin origin of Yoruba would like to play history in reverse by suggesting the Yoruba empire was younger than Benin. What I found really incredible about the story of Ekaladerhan being Oduduwa is the almost impossible compression of events that would require at least half a century into a few years.

As for the OP & his Tipsy supporter on this thread I am afraid they are not interested in any real discussion.

Hmmm. Thanks, but I'm not sure that you completely understood my post. The story of "Benin origin of Yoruba" seems like a distortion and misrepresentation of the story that Oba Erediauwa advocated.

honeric01:

I would like to know which of these 2 main kingdoms (talking of the main Yoruba kingdom at that time and the Bini kingdom) is the oldest?

I would say Ife. There is supposed to be archeological evidence of very early pavements and pottery there which I think is earlier than Benin. I'll need to search for the original source/article of the info though. That is however just habitation. The real question might also be, which one existed as a centralized state first, which is more uncertain because the Ogisos, whether there were only 300 years of Ogisos or an even longer reign of Ogisos before the late 12th century when the Eweka dynasty started, have been confirmed by Esan and Urhobos as the previous Benin rulers. Furthermore a process of building defensive earthworks that would later continue under Benin started around the northern Bini area and the southern Esan area quite early (700 AD) but this does not prove conclusively Benin's existence as a centralized state at that time, although it supports it. Ife as a centralized state can probably be proven to be earlier with archeology though. I'll look around and see what I can find.