selemempe:
exactly I don't know you...but I know Duncan mighty, Monalisa Chinda, etc...they are proud of their igbo heritage.

I have not wasted my time anymore than you and pazienza have. I have not been involved in these arguments as much as both of you. I met both your Monikas in threads arguing this! Sad!

You waste your time trying to reinforce an already existing status quo that doesn't favour you or your ethnicity! Sad sad! And unintelligent even! You are mad that an Ikwere man insulted you and called you a backward Ibo! Lol! Now you are emotional and have sworn that you will spend your time on nairaland 'advicing' Igbos to flee from ikwere...lol. do you know how many whites died trying to create Canada, Americas and Australia? You think your emotions create nations? You think your biri Ka mbiri attitude create nations?

Now listen to my own advice, don't spend your time reinforcing an existing status quo, that is what will be a waste of your time... because for one that status quo has already been created...if you really want to use your time well, create something new! For now ikwere are not igbo...but we say ikwere are igbos... chikina it will pain a few people, that's part of what we intend to achieve

You still continue making a great many assumptions about me just to make your point. It's not helping. Simply say that you want to include Ikwerre because you think you can leverage them to put Igbo on the map. You want to include Ikwerre in an all-encompassing Igbo nation. As I have already said, that is fine, if that is your dream, though I believe it can be achieved in other ways and that you don't need Ikwerre for that. If Ikwerre is going to join, then it would do so of its own accord.

ChinenyeN:


You are not versed in Ikwerre history so I will not go back and forth with you on the [de]merits of their position. The ultimate thing I need you to understand is this: Upon all the talk that you Igbo people have been doing. Upon all the shouting that you Igbo people have been shouting. Upon all the arguments you Igbo people have been making. Upon all the mgbali you people gbalila, we now live in a reality where Ikwerre undeniably distinct. Whatever lies they tell is ultimately unimportant. They could even start telling the obvious truth now, but it would make no difference. Ikwerre succeeded in not having its identity submerged and stifled within the umbrella of "Igbo".

Any argument, any statement, and plea that provided on the basis of origin, reauthored oral traditions and name changes means absolutely nothing in the face of one simple reality. The Ikwerre succeeded. The fact that we are even having this conversation now is evidence of such success. This conversation is AFTER THE FACT, proving the nigh futility of anything Igbo nationalists have to say.

I too believe that you do not have to reauthor history for the sake of self-determination [ana m ekwuru ụnụ, ndị "Igbo bụ Otu"]. However, at this point right now, we are clearly discussing something that has already happened. The how's and the why's are not as important as the reality of what faces us now, being that Ikwerre succeeded, and that is really all that matters.

look at a defeatist mentality! Chai!

Do you know that it was the Portuguese and the Dutch who first moved into Africa with the mind to colonize the continent? They were here for more than 300 years before the British and French arrived after they lost their North American colonies.
When did ikwere succeed in creating an ethnic group for themselves? In 1979! Lol not even up to 50 years ago. Do you know how the world works?
Do you know that 500 years ago that U.S was filled with native Indians just like Africa was filled with blacks? Do you know that it is possible that in the next 500 years that U.S maybe filled with Asians? You are very funny and lack the knowledge and insight needed in creating nations. Who told you that Nigeria will exist into 2050?
Ikwere have not nearly gone far enough for us to say we should leave them. Not nearly far enough. And that you and pazienza don't realise that shows that you should no longer speak on the matter.

ChinenyeN:


You still continue making a great many assumptions about me just to make your point. It's not helping. Simply say that you want to include Ikwerre because you think you can leverage them to put Igbo on the map. You want to include Ikwerre in an all-encompassing Igbo nation. As I have already said, that is fine, if that is your dream, though I believe it can be achieved in other ways and that you don't need Ikwerre for that. If Ikwerre is going to join, then it would do so of its own accord.

it will not do so on its accord if we don't give them a little push. Why we should want ikwere is still not obvious to you? That's exactly why you lack the moral authority to keep speaking on this topic. I respect you..but you should not continue speaking on this topic

selemempe:
look at a defeatist mentality! Chai!

Do you know that it was the Portuguese and the Dutch who first moved into Africa with the mind to colonize the continent? They were here for more than 300 years before the British and French arrived after they lost their North American colonies.
When did ikwere succeed in creating an ethnic group for themselves? In 1979! Lol not even up to 50 years ago. Do you know how the world works?
Do you know that 500 years ago that U.S was filled with native Indians just like Africa was filled with blacks? Do you know that it is possible that in the next 500 years that U.S maybe filled with Asians? You are very funny and lack the knowledge and insight needed in creating nations. Who told you that Nigeria will exist into 2050?
Ikwere have not nearly gone far enough for us to say we should leave them. Not nearly far enough. And that you and pazienza don't realise that shows that you should no longer speak on the matter.

Enyi. Leave that talk of two, three, four hundred years into the distant future. In that same vein, Igbo might not even survive. It's a moot discussion. This is the here and now. As I said, I personally consider it a waste and will not suggest anyone endeavoring for such inclusivity. You on the other hand don't want to be "defeatists", so continue expending your energy. As I've already said, your chi will decide with you if two hundred years from now, Ikwerre + Igbo are one and if your sentiments and efforts were worth it (if there is even an Ikwerre or Igbo by that time).

ChinenyeN:


Enyi. Leave that talk of two, three, four hundred years into the distant future. In that same vein, Igbo might not even survive. It's a moot discussion. This is the here and now. As I said, I personally consider it a waste and will not suggest anyone endeavoring for such inclusivity. You on the other hand don't want to be "defeatists", so continue expending your energy. As I've already said, your chi will decide with you if two hundred years from now, Ikwerre + Igbo are one and if your sentiments and efforts were worth it (if there is even an Ikwerre or Igbo by that time).

Hehehe ana eme nu
what a mentality you have.

selemempe:
it will not do so on its accord if we don't give them a little push. Why we should want ikwere is still not obvious to you? That's exactly why you lack the moral authority to keep speaking on this topic. I respect you..but you should not continue speaking on this topic

There is both a historical and present day track record to examine here, being that anything "Igbo" engenders aggression from Ikwerre. But your response to that is to continue giving them a little push? Sigh. Isn't that what you've all spent the past, almost 60 years doing? Yet, here we are. I'm obviously not as optimistic as you when it comes to this. So, feel free to endeavor. Perhaps you will be successful.

ChinenyeN:


It is one thing if you find what they call stragglers; random, sporadic examples of what you are looking for. These random, sporadic examples of Ikwerre who attend your "unity meetings" are stragglers. Believe in your stragglers, but know this. It is one think to be pleasantly surprised by stragglers, and it is another to act as though said stragglers are representative of your target population. The latter is foolhardy. That is the only thing Pazienza and I are saying.

I will now add my own on top of that.

It is an utter waste of time and resources to attempt to conscript an entire population who want nothing to do with you.

And so I hold.

selemempe:
you may well be right in all you have said...but you are damn wrong in the bolded

Nations are not created by weak-minded people who do the bolded.

Do what you want and leave us who are interested in building an igbo nation to do what we want.

There is something I want to tell pazienza....at first I wanted to take his advice and forget ikwere until I had a reawakening (story for another day). While you are sitting on your computer (probably in Lagos or outside igboland) asking Igbos to forget ikwere, some ikwere people and some igbos are on ground attending unity meetings and releasing works of art that put Igbo on the map.

In China, many people are of the opinion that China should forget Taiwan, but the very intelligent people who have been running china since the 70s know that that would be a grave error.
Notice how it's igbos such as yourself and pazienza who carry the 'ikwerre are not igbo' matter on head in this thread? Have you seen the post of an Ikwere yet? You think some of them haven't seen this thread?

Again do what you want...we will do what we want

Well you are the weak minded. Nobody has gotten independence or freedom by appealing to the right of nature. These statement is what Ikwerre understands very well more than you.

Armaggedon:
Hehehe ana eme nu
what a mentality you have.

I cannot take all the credit. My eke is also responsible for the gift of such a mentality.

ChinenyeN:


Enyi. Leave that talk of two, three, four hundred years into the distant future. In that same vein, Igbo might not even survive. It's a moot discussion. This is the here and now. As I said, I personally consider it a waste and will not suggest anyone endeavoring for such inclusivity. You on the other hand don't want to be "defeatists", so continue expending your energy. As I've already said, your chi will decide with you if two hundred years from now, Ikwerre + Igbo are one and if your sentiments and efforts were worth it (if there is even an Ikwerre or Igbo by that time).

there won't be an igbo in the next 200 years for sure with majority of Igbos thinking like you. I knew you know little about the making of nations..that's why you don't look far enough into the future to see how your actions today affect the future. You are not the only one...most blacks have always been like that including me. It was when I travelled abroad that I started reading about the history of European colonialism...I know many people have read it but I took time to really read it and understand how nations are created. Europeans are master nation builders...we blacks have a lot to learn from them.

Bro, what we do today matters more in how the future will be than what is done in the future. Yesterday creates today and today creates tomorrow, not the other war round. Today doesn't create today. It is not a moot discussion...it's the only important thing. And because you don't know it, the least you can do is take a back seat when how to create an igbo nation is being discussed.

Nations can not be created with your mentality and I respect that

selemempe:
exactly I don't know you...but I know Duncan mighty, Monalisa Chinda, etc...they are proud of their igbo heritage.

I have not wasted my time anymore than you and pazienza have. I have not been involved in these arguments as much as both of you. I met both your Monikas in threads arguing this! Sad!

You waste your time trying to reinforce an already existing status quo that doesn't favour you or your ethnicity! Sad sad! And unintelligent even! You are mad that an Ikwere man insulted you and called you a backward Ibo! Lol! Now you are emotional and have sworn that you will spend your time on nairaland 'advicing' Igbos to flee from ikwere...lol. do you know how many whites died trying to create Canada, Americas and Australia? You think your emotions create nations? You think your biri Ka mbiri attitude create nations?

Now listen to my own advice, don't spend your time reinforcing an existing status quo, that is what will be a waste of your time... because for one that status quo has already been created...if you really want to use your time well, create something new! For now ikwere are not igbo...but we say ikwere are igbos... chikina it will pain a few people, that's part of what we intend to achieve

Ikwerres are Ikwerre and not Igbo..

This is the first useless statement I have read this morning.

ChinenyeN:

I cannot take all the credit. My eke is also responsible for the gift of such a mentality.

Eke don't give defeatist mentality

MelesZenawi:



Ikwerres are Ikwerre and not Igbo..

This is the first useless statement I have read this morning.

Non of you arguing are even from Ikwerre

selemempe:
there won't be an igbo in the next 200 years for sure with majority of Igbos thinking like you. I knew you know little about the making of nations..that's why you don't look far enough into the future to see how your actions today affect the future. You are not the only one...most blacks have always been like that including me. It was when I travelled abroad that I started reading about the history of European colonialism...I know many people have read it but I took time to really read it and understand how nations are created. Europeans are master nation builders...we blacks have a lot to learn from them.

Bro, what we do today matters more in how the future will be than what is done in the future. Yesterday creates today and today creates tomorrow, not the other war round. Today doesn't create today. It is not a moot discussion...it's the only important thing. And because you don't know it, the least you can do is take a back seat when how to create an igbo nation is being discussed.

Nations can not be created with your mentality and I respect that

We disagree on one detail and the implications of said detail, and you think you're the only one with visions of nation-building. It's presumptuous. It is also presumptuous to think you can convince Ikwerre to join your nation that you haven't built yet.

nengibo:

Non of you arguing are even from Ikwerre

The more reason they are Ikwerre and not Igbo.

If they say you should address them as such then you have no right than to do that.

Armaggedon:
Eke don't give defeatist mentality

That is for me and my eke to decide.

nengibo:
Non of you arguing are even from Ikwerre

But we are Igbo, discussing the destiny of Igbo and why it need or need not forcibly include Ikwerre.

ChinenyeN:


We disagree on one detail and the implications of said detail, and you think you're the only one with visions of nation-building. It's presumptuous. It is also presumptuous to think you can convince Ikwerre to join your nation that you haven't built yet.

and it's presumptuous of you to think we can't convince them

Igbo is already a nation with a defined map, a flag and a leadership under ohaneze and ikwere are included in that map, in its leadership and wear it's national dress... The only thing we are doing is to launder the narrative into the hearts of other Nigerians (not even ikwere themselves because we have done that to include them in ohaneze) that Ikwere is igbo...that you don't know this is also another reason you should not speak on this matter.

ChinenyeN:

But we are Igbo, discussing the destiny of Igbo and why it need or need not forcibly include Ikwerre.

that's the spirit

ChinenyeN:


There is both a historical and present day track record to examine here, being that anything "Igbo" engenders aggression from Ikwerre. But your response to that is to continue giving them a little push? Sigh. Isn't that what you've all spent the past, almost 60 years doing? Yet, here we are. I'm obviously not as optimistic as you when it comes to this. So, feel free to endeavor. Perhaps you will be successful.

everything Igbo does not engender aggression from ikwere... otherwise they won't be in ohaneze and you won't hear many many of their prominent sons claim igbo at one point or the other... you know this too but your ego was probably badly hurt by an Ikwere man you couldn't forget

Armaggedon:
Hehehe ana eme nu
what a mentality you have.

I'm telling you bro chinenyen has a major defeatist mentality that nation builders need to stay far away from

selemempe:
and it's presumptuous of you to think we can't convince them

Igbo is already a nation with a defined map, a flag and a leadership under ohaneze and ikwere are included in that map, in its leadership and wear it's national dress... The only thing we are doing is to launder the narrative into the hearts of other Nigerians (not even ikwere themselves because we have done that to include them in ohaneze) that Ikwere is igbo...that you don't know this is also another reason you should not speak on this matter.

Igbo is not a nation. We do not recognize a single pan-Igbo flag. We don't even recognize Ohaneze as an authority that we listen to. That's three strikes for your position. There is far more work that needs to be done to show without question that an Igbo nationhood exists. We don't have that right now.

I'm talking about the here and now when it comes to convincing Ikwerre. I'm looking at an actual historical and present day track record, but you're looking at a future and dream that you have which includes them. I am certainly not the one being presumptuous here.

selemempe:
everything Igbo does not engender aggression from ikwere... otherwise they won't be in ohaneze and you won't hear many many of their prominent sons claim igbo at one point or the other... you know this too but your ego was probably badly hurt by an Ikwere man you couldn't forget

You're still talking about stragglers as though they represent your target population. Who cares if these "prominent sons" claim anything at all. There is still an entire population of over 2, maybe 3+ million with clear anti-Igbo sentiment. How do you reconcile this?

Like I said earlier, Igbo people shouldn't brag just because they spread across and control 95% of Rivers state. What about the other 5% which is only Ijaws and Kalabari who are also bona fide people of Rivers?

People should stop making genaralistic comments abeg.

ChinenyeN:

You're still talking about stragglers as though they represent your target population. Who cares if these "prominent sons" claim anything at all. There is still an entire population of over 2, maybe 3+ million with clear anti-Igbo sentiment. How do you reconcile this?

Same way there are more than 70% of the northern population who detest the control of the Fulani on their large Hausa and other minority leadership.

But what is the situation on the ground? The Fulani still have their way even with their small population.

SLAP44:
Same way there are more than 70% of the northern population who detest the control of the Fulani on their large Hausa and other minority leadership.

But what is the situation on the ground? The Fulani still have their way even with their small population.

It's easy to make statements like this, but at the end of the day, you have to agree that their situation is not the same as ours. That analogy ends up not working, so you need to reconcile that with (or speak in terms of) our actual predicament. Otherwise, it's as though your making comparisons to something that doesn't fit.

ChinenyeN:


Igbo is not a nation. We do not recognize a single pan-Igbo flag. We don't even recognize Ohaneze as an authority that we listen to. That's three strikes for your position. There is far more work that needs to be done to show without question that an Igbo nationhood exists. We don't have that right now.

I'm talking about the here and now when it comes to convincing Ikwerre. I'm looking at an actual historical and present day track record, but you're looking at a future and dream that you have which includes them. I am certainly not the one being presumptuous here.

lol...what are you talking about?

Is there an authority that Igbo or yoruba or Hausa listen to? Ohaneze serves a role of a pan Igbo body which speaks the position of majority of Igbos on national issues and every Igbo tribe is represented in it. Every Igbo tribe.

A nation is a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory.

Is the above not a perfect definition of Igbo? Is there an igbo tribe found outside Nigeria? Or is south south not in Nigeria?

Type 'igbo flag' on Google and see what comes up. You don't realise what people like me have done with Google to launder Igbo identity. People like you and pazienza are a dying breed. We are gradually taking you out of the game with the internet.

Google things like

Igboland
Ikwere
Igbo people
Igbo flag

You will see that the narrative you are pushing here is not the narrative the world sees when they read about us

ChinenyeN:

You're still talking about stragglers as though they represent your target population. Who cares if these "prominent sons" claim anything at all. There is still an entire population of over 2, maybe 3+ million with clear anti-Igbo sentiment. How do you reconcile this?

really? Who cares? You sure don't care!

We do. And that's why we have told you that you are not in the moral position to speak for us

ChinenyeN:

It's easy to make statements like this, but at the end of the day, you have to agree that their situation is not the same as ours. That analogy ends up not working, so you need to reconcile that with (or speak in terms of) our actual predicament. Otherwise, it's as though your making comparisons to something that doesn't fit.

Ikwerre aside, every other statement you made here is useless..

Igbo is a nation..Infact Igbo nation and you have no right to dictate or question the history of your fathers. It was handed down from generation to generation and you have to go by it.

Well no need explaining, as watchdogs any misbehavior will be corrected by us Immediately..

ChinenyeN:

It's easy to make statements like this, but at the end of the day, you have to agree that their situation is not the same as ours. That analogy ends up not working, so you need to reconcile that with (or speak in terms of) our actual predicament. Otherwise, it's as though your making comparisons to something that doesn't fit.

apart from the abandoned property saga can you tell me and slap44 where the Ikwerres have ever gone against igbos except that they probably insulted and hated on you?

You think we need them to love us and hug us every morning before we know we are good with them?

selemempe:
lol...what are you talking about?

Is there an authority that Igbo or yoruba or Hausa listen to? Ohaneze serves a role of a pan Igbo body which speaks the position of majority of Igbos on national issues and every Igbo tribe is represented in it. Every Igbo tribe.

Again, the Igbo community by far and large does not even recognize Ohaneze as a leadership body. That's the narrative you're trying to paint here though. Let's just make this simple. You want to talk about nation-building. We don't have a polity.

selemempe:
A nation is a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory.

Is the above not a perfect definition of Igbo? Is there an igbo tribe found outside Nigeria? Or is south south not in Nigeria?

Type 'igbo flag' on Google and see what comes up. You don't realise what people like me have done with Google to launder Igbo identity. People like you and pazienza are a dying breed. We are gradually taking you out of the game with the internet.

Google things like

Igboland
Ikwere
Igbo people
Igbo flag

You will see that the narrative you are pushing here is not the narrative the world sees when they read about us

Nation-building as in nation-state. When you mention "nation-building", people are going to think of a government and not an ethnicity. The latter exists for Igbo, but not the former. When I hear "nation-building", I certainly am not thinking of an identity. I'm thinking of sovereignty.

selemempe:
really? Who cares? You sure don't care!

We do. And that's why we have told you that you are not in the moral position to speak for us

Who said I speak for you? I’m speaking up because I’m Igbo, looking at Igbo people who I think are making a wrong decision. I’m speaking TO you. I am not speaking for you.