SEFAGO:

I agree. This does not make context in Nigeria. The OP is talking ignorantly lol.

How many[b] venture capital firms[/b] do we have in Naija lol

you beat me to it

i doubt if they even know what venture capital is

see them blathering about steve jobs

in nigeria  

do they think ipods are developed by candlelight  

blacksta:

Will you stop making statements out of context  -  Are you aware of the startup or investors capital that was available to fb in it early days.  Even the almighty google sought funding from various investors.   In the Nigerian context investors dont exist and if you ever find one , his ROI would simply be unachievable.  
.

And your point is what? Who has said that money is not needed to turn ideas into reality? Again that point has already been touched upon when we talked about collaboration. Specifically the collaboration as between those with technical skills, those with a marketing vision and strategy and daring investors.

tensor777:

And your point is what? Who has said that money is not needed to turn ideas into reality? Again that point has already been touched upon when we talked about collaboration. Specifically the collaboration as between those with technical skills those with a marketiing vision and strategy and daring investors.

come out of the twilight zone

we have 'daring investors' in nigeria

roflmao!!!

My strong suspicion is that some of these folks are people who spend a lot of time reading the WSJ, FT, Economist, etc, perhaps even have some experience in the business world from the financing perspective, but they aren't actually scientists, engineers, etc, people who actually build and do things.

It is very easy to say, "Gee, Nigerians should be more entrepreneurial!"

It is another thing to actually be the guy on the ground in Nigeria working in an industry in which 10-15% of the costs are electricity, and the Nigerian is forced to pay 3 or 4 times as much for his electricity supply as his competitors in other countries. Obviously, that is going to hurt your competitiveness quite a bit.

Of course, I suppose according to these folks, a little more creativity should be enough to oversome these massively increased costs of doing business  

Hrm, but I think they've given me an idea! Maybe to solve my business's electricity problem, we should employee a priest to make sacrifices to Sango so that the efficiency of the diesel generator increases, thus cutting down my electricity costs  

SEFAGO:

I agree. This does not make context in Nigeria. The OP is talking ignorantly lol.

How many venture capital firms do we have in Naija lol

Very irrelevant comment. The issue is not the mere lack of venture capital firms but the risk averse nature of investors in Nigeria. In any case such venture capital investors would only invest in viable ideas that would enable them to earn supernormal profits in the first place.

oyb:

come out of the twilight zone

we have 'daring investors' in nigeria  

Maybe he meant daring politicians as prescribed by OBJ " it is do or die affair"

tensor777:

Very irrelevant comment. The issue is not the mere lack of venture capital firms but the risk averse nature of investors in Nigeria. In any case such venture capital investors would only invest in viable ideas that would enable them to earn supernormal profits in the first place.

And do you have some good examples of viable ideas these investors(in Nigeria) have actually invested in?

oyb:

come out of the twilight zone
we have 'daring investors' in nigeria

Of what relevance is that when most home grown businesses in Nigeria are one man affairs. You think one person and his family would be able to provide all that is needed in this scenario? Capital, technical skills, strategic marketing vision??
Are we on the same page here

eku_bear:

My strong suspicion is that some of these folks are people who spend a lot of time reading the WSJ, FT, Economist, etc, perhaps even have some experience in the business world from the financing perspective, but they aren't actually scientists, engineers, etc, people who actually build and do things.

It is very easy to say, "Gee, Nigerians should be more entrepreneurial!"

It is another thing to actually be the guy on the ground in Nigeria working in an industry in which 10-15% of the costs are electricity, and the Nigerian is forced to pay 3 or 4 times as much for his electricity supply as his competitors in other countries. Obviously, that is going to hurt your competitiveness quite a bit.

Of course, I suppose according to these folks, a little more creativity should be enough to oversome these massively increased costs of doing business  

Hrm, but I think they've given me an idea! Maybe to solve my business's electricity problem, we should employee a priest to make sacrifices to Sango so that the efficiency of the diesel generator increases, thus cutting down my electricity costs  

I would posit that there are several ways one can get past the energy issue. One can go into commodity/malls or basic business like Aliko Dangote, and then branch out into more hightech stuff.

However all the people asking for malls, how much customers do you think you will get in Nigeria if you open all those high class malls? I was working for a company in Nigeria two years ago in which I had to visit the malls, and market stuff for them so I used sit down in all those malls in Nigeria waiting to corner prospective customers to market the product I was trying to sell.

I could count the number of people going into the malls, and they were very few. You just dont have the culture of consumerism in Nigeria that occurs in America, Europe or Asia. These countries have lots of financial instruments to even encourage consumerism- credit lines to make people keep shopping, and propping industry. Its a different culture and economic environment. Nigeria might have the largest number of black middle-class individuals in Africa, but the middle-class dey struggle no be small.

When you have tons of money you can find a way of getting past Nigeria's issue of power. However, what hightech product can you market in Nigeria at present? Most people like foreign stuff too- imagine buying stuff with a label "made in Nigeria."

Me myself I will not even buy that stuff hehe  

the evils of all these financial freedom hucksters who scam people into believing businesses are built on creativity alone

what has been repeatedly cited are success stories of knowledge economies

the best nigeria's current climate can support is a retail economy, which is why so many successful 'entrepreneurs' are simply buying and selling

oyb:

the evils of all these financial freedom hucksters who scam people into believing businesses are built on creativity alone

what has been repeatedly cited are success stories of knowledge economies

the best nigeria's current climate can support is a retail econom[/b]y, [b]which is why so many successful 'entrepreneurs' are simply buying and selling

BINGO!

I am not surprised. People who live in developed economies, where everything is available, are not even thinking like a would be entrepreneur. Are there bad roads and no electricity and poor internet in the west as well? Or is it still the absence of the basic amenities as well? Is it therefore not conclusive, that amenities, available or not, is not enough to inspire the Nigerian person, either at home in Nigeria or in the west, to make use of their God given brain to be creative.

The thread is now being hijacked by "ras" people who are hollow and shallow and will use every un warranted argument to impress others with their position.

SEFAGO:

I would posit that there are several ways one can get past the energy issue. One can go into commodity/malls or basic business like Aliko Dangote, and then branch out into more hightech stuff.
However all the people asking for malls, how much customers do you think you will get in Nigeria if you open all those high class malls? I was When you have tons of money you can find a way of getting past Nigeria's issue of power. However, what hightech product can you market in Nigeria at present? Most people like foreign stuff too- imagine buying stuff with a label "made in Nigeria."
Me myself I will not even buy that stuff hehe  

Well nobody is saying that you should build a Walmart or a Tesco in Nigeria or establish western style shopping malls in Nigerian towns and cities.
That is a non-starter given the prevailing shopping culture.
As for high-tech products well it is enough to ensure that such products are also affordable and reliable. That in of itself takes creativity in engineering and design.

Ma_J_Blige:

I am not surprised. People who live in developed economies, where everything is available, are not even thinking like a would be entrepreneur. Are there bad roads and no electricity and poor internet in the west as well? Or is it still the absence of the basic amenities as well? Is it therefore not conclusive, that amenities, available or not, is not enough to inspire the Nigerian person, either at home in Nigeria or in the west, to make use of their God given brain to be creative.

The thread is now being hijacked by "ras" people who are hollow and shallow and will use every un warranted argument to impress others with their position.

Yes the trolls can be infuriating at times with their sheer lack of insight and blind arguments. They are best ignored

SEFAGO:

I would posit that there are several ways one can get past the energy issue. One can go into commodity/malls or basic business like Aliko Dangote, and then branch out into more hightech stuff.

However all the people asking for malls, how much customers do you think you will get in Nigeria if you open all those high class malls? I was working for a company in Nigeria two years ago in which I had to visit the malls, and market stuff for them so I used sit down in all those malls in Nigeria waiting to corner prospective customers to market the product I was trying to sell.

I could count the number of people going into the malls, and they were very few. You just dont have the culture of consumerism in Nigeria that occurs in America, Europe or Asia. These countries have lots of financial instruments to even encourage consumerism- credit lines to make people keep shopping, and propping industry. Its a different culture and economic environment. Nigeria might have the largest number of black middle-class individuals in Africa, but the middle-class dey struggle no be small.

Malls are pretty electricity intensive. And yes, I've noticed too that they don't have the foot-traffic of malls say in the US. We don't really have a "mall" culture in Nigeria like we do in the US. Though this may change with time (especially if credit becomes more widely available.)

Basic commodities can be good, it depends how you do it. I think importing commodities can be very damn good, things which will move quickly. But this is only my sense, I've not thoroughly confirmed this yet.

Agriculture itself is OK, not amazing. I chatted a bit with a Nigerian agricultural economist I know who consults on this stuff and dabbles in it himself, he says the annualized ROI is like 28-35% or so, if you want to do large-scale catfish/rice/etc farm. That is GREAT for western standards, but not so impressive when you consider that Nigerian banks charge like 22% interest rates.

Of course, if you can find someone willing to loan you $1 million or whatever to do farming even at this insane 22% interest rate, you go ahead and do it and make your profit on the differential. Or better yet, find some way to bring in capital from abroad at a more reasonable interest rate (say, low 10s).
I think this would be a pretty interesting proposition to foreign investors. Actually, now that I think of it, this same economist told me about a foreign agricultural group (cannot remember the name of the country they are from) that is doing large-scale farming out in Benue.

When you have tons of money you can find a way of getting past Nigeria's issue of power. However, what hightech product can you market in Nigeria at present? Most people like foreign stuff too- imagine buying stuff with a label "made in Nigeria."

Me myself I will not even buy that stuff hehe  

Hrm, hightech product? Well, there are two separate components. The design of the products and the manufacturing. Apple's stuff for example is designed out in CA, but manufactured elsewhere. I'd be happy if Nigeria could even just do design here, design is pretty profitable. But of course, to do design you need electricity

oyb:

the evils of all these financial freedom hucksters who scam people into believing businesses are built on creativity alone

what has been repeatedly cited are success stories of knowledge economies

Problem is that most of them have never built a thing before in their lives. Not ever written a piece of software, done any CAD, built anything in a circuits lab, machine shop, etc. Most of what they know about technology/engineering/etc is whatever they've picked up from reading the WSJ.

Malls are pretty electricity intensive. And yes, I've noticed too that they don't have the foot-traffic of malls say in the US. We don't really have a "mall" culture in Nigeria like we do in the US. Though this may change with time (especially if credit becomes more widely available.)

i'm not really sure about that

the palms, megaplaza, park and shop, and silverbird galleria seem to have plenty of traffic

though the palms is the only really big mall, when it comes to that

i do know they were building another in abuja, probably completed now

oyb:

i'm not really sure about that

the palms, megaplaza, park and shop, and silverbird galleria seem to have plenty of traffic

though the palms is the only really big mall, when it comes to that

i do know they were building another in abuja, probably completed now

Hrm, I've been to a mall in Abuja a few times (Silverbird something). Whenever I go the traffic seems a bit thin. I usually go at night though, so maybe what I've seen isn't representative of the true traffic.

^^^

most of the ones i listed are in lagos

vi or its immediate environs

eku_bear:

Hrm, I've been to a mall in Abuja a few times (Silverbird something). Whenever I go the traffic seems a bit thin. I usually go at night though, so maybe what I've seen isn't representative of the true traffic.

The traffic is there, visit Roban stores in Enugu and you have to queve up to pay the bill. The shoppers are there, you cant imagine the new generation to go into a noisy open market and haggle with market women all day with an ipod and an earpiece attached to his ear, while avoiding wheel barrows competing to break your legs. I will vote for a mall anyday and pay the difference.

I think a lot of what people post here are just plain excuses (and this includes myself). Foreigners (Lebanese, Indians, Chinese, Arabs) are HAVING A BALL right here in our land and we the natives are excusing our failures. Isn't it ironic that the Arabs, Lebanese, Chinese, Indians et al see the opportunities in our country thousands of miles away and trooping to Nigeria in droves to rape us while Nigerians cannot see the opportunities around them and are complaining and fleeing the country.

Look at all of our SMEs controlled and dominated by foreigners in our own land facing the same economic realities. All our biscuits, juice, plastics, nylons, steel, milk, rice, textiles etc are made by the aforementioned nationalities while our own people spend years on the street looking for bank job and blaming the Govt for their own mental unproductiveness. The only thing we control is banks and buying and selling!

I myself have had reason to complain in the past but I'm using these foreigners as inspiration to get down into the dirt and make my killing. If an Indian can be HAVING A BALL in Naija, How much more me? We despise the Dangote's of this world who are thriving and investing in Nigeria while ignoring the Stallions, Churchgates, Starcomms, Dufil Prima raping us and carting our money to India!!

^^^Yeah, why I mentioned Grameen Bank is because they offer loans without collaterals and the country has no credit bureau to access creditworthiness but the creative part is to focus on productive women (94% customers) in the rural areas rather than the normal way the other banks do business.

For Depearl, it is a start, from one shirt it gets to containers. As she gets more customers, she will be able to gain more negotiating power either with her suppliers or with the freight companies. Even up till now Twitter is not making money to sustain itself but its building its base.

Cos they lack capital.
Banks wont give loan

kcjazz:

^^^Yeah, why I mentioned Grameen Bank is because they offer loans without collaterals and the country has no credit bureau to access creditworthiness but the creative part is to focus on productive women (94% customers) in the rural areas rather than the normal way the other banks do business.

Eh, it is creative, but that doesn't mean it is ultimately more profitable. And in any case, it isn't something that a small entrepreneur can do easily.

For Depearl, it is a start, from one shirt it gets to containers. As she gets more customers, she will be able to gain more negotiating power either with her suppliers or with the freight companies.

Fair enough, if you are OK with spending lots of time in that low-level stage where you are building up the business, fine. But for me, I cannot do that.

Even up till now Twitter is not making money to sustain itself but its building its base.

Twitter isn't necessarily profitable right now, but can monetize its product fairly quickly. Something like Twitter (or social-media in general) is in no way or shape comparable to the other two businesses you discussed, since the business model is very different.

kcjazz:

^^^Yeah, why I mentioned Grameen Bank is because they offer loans without collaterals and the country has no credit bureau to access creditworthiness but the creative part is to focus on productive women (94% customers) in the rural areas rather than the normal way the other banks do business.

For Depearl, it is a start, from one shirt it gets to containers. As she gets more customers, she will be able to gain more negotiating power either with her suppliers or with the freight companies. Even up till now Twitter is not making money to sustain itself but its building its base.

How much did Depearl start up with? A loan from Grameen bank?

^^^

most of the ones i listed are in lagos

vi or its immediate environs

I used to live in VI so I kind of have an idea of the shopping malls there and they are mostly empty. Yes Palms, and Silverbird are full but there are other shopping malls.

I think a lot of what people post here are just plain excuses (and this includes myself). Foreigners (Lebanese, Indians, Chinese, Arabs) are HAVING A BALL right here in our land and we the natives are excusing our failures. Isn't it ironic that the Arabs, Lebanese, Chinese, Indians et al see the opportunities in our country thousands of miles away and trooping to Nigeria in droves to violation us while Nigerians cannot see the opportunities around them and are complaining and fleeing the country.

I partially agree. I went to college with one of the owners of the famous malls in Nigeria (he is Indian) and guess what his family is worth- $800 million

Yep. And guess where his family make a substantial block of their money at.

Nigeria

However, his family has been operating their business in multiple countries for years- close to 70 years.

His family is like another Tata except they have tons of Tata kind of businesses in India. It seems that Indians are able to build sustainable businesses and keep it within the family- Lakshmi Mittal, Ambani brothers e.t.c

My big question is this though- Why are Africans uncreative entrepreneurs? I get and understand Nigerians who live in Nigeria, but what about all the Nigerians in the US and the UK? While Mittal was able to build the largest steel company in Europe, No Nigerian in diaspora has been able to do anything.

Ok, no light in Nigerian sebi? What about Malaysia, Toronto, Jakarta? I know being black could be a disadvantage but come on just one successful african business'/black business that is not due to being an athlete, entertainer (Oprah Winfrey), or through cuddling with politicians (Dangote and Otedola).

Ok what about Tanzania, Kenya and Uganda? Has anyone thought of expanding Nigerian businesses outside the shores of Nigerian apart from a few companies like Glo and some banks.

Those countries are easier to migrate too than UK and US. What about south Africa and the BEP (Black empowerment Program)? I know Nigerians have a handle on the drug trade there but what  other industry have we started?

What about Mauritius? They have a booming tourist Industry- as any Nigerian thought out of the box, and tried to acquire a company there. Yes discrimination is rampant but no one discriminates against money.

I have met lots of Indians & Lebanese whose family have made a fortune in diaspora. I have learned one thing from them- move if your fortunes are not great in one place.

Kobojunkie:


How much did Depearl start up with? A loan from Grameen bank?

I don't seem to understand your question. However, Depearl is most likely funded by private savings of its owner and family.

^^ Asking to get a better idea of the business is all. You don't by any chance know how long the business has been in operation, I mean online, do you?

^^^Since 2009. Am still waiting to see how successful it could get but its encouraging to me though.