fortran12:


Don't give me Google. I took my time to get you the verses from your books. Pls do the same.
Show me proof the part you mentioned ws about new converts. It talks about the waiting period for females who have not yet hit puberty. What about the benefits of the prophet? Why did u ignore that?

The story of khybar Ali asked your prophet why they were raiding then place your man's answer was " so they can acknowledge allah as God and mohmmed as his messenger"
You cnt compare.this man with Jesus in any way. Yet you guys say he is the best of mankind

I'm asking you to take a Google search because that's obviously where you got these baseless claims from. Have you attended a Quranic school before? Or did you study Islamic education in the university? You cant just take verses of the Quran or paragraphs of Hadith and interpret them to your own understanding. Even for a muslim faithful, learning the teachings of the Quran is not a one way street. You'll need to learn Sirah al Nabawiyya(history and deeds of the Prophets and Messengers), Fiqh(philosophy of Islamic law), Tauhid(concept of monotheism), Hadith(sayings and deeds attributed to Prophet Muhammad), Tafsir(Quranic exegesis; which is frankly what all your arguments have so far lacked.)

It would be a waste of time I've realized trying to discuss anything with you. And I wonder where you read of me comparing Jesus to Muhammad. We don't compare Prophets in Islam. Muhammad was a Prophet and Messenger of Allah: the last Prophet and the foundation of the muslim faith. I don't need to tell you about Isa(A.S) in Islam. I'm sure you've done your homework, but you close your eyes to the important things. Isa is also called "Ruhullah" means Isa is from Allah's spirit, from Allah's attributes and names or from divine spirit. Muslims also believe he will return to Earth before the Day of Judgment to restore justice and defeat al-Masih ad-Dajjal, or “the false messiah” — also known
as the Antichrist. There are whole lots of things about Jesus in Islam. Just as I'd say, check your Google.

Frankly, this is a fruitless venture. At this point, I'd say you can think whatever you think, sir.

Kiddler:


I'm asking you to take a Google search because that's obviously where you got these baseless claims from. Have you attended a Quranic school before? Or did you study Islamic education in the university? You cant just take verses of the Quran or paragraphs of Hadith and interpret them to your own understanding. Even for a muslim faithful, learning the teachings of the Quran is not a one way street. You'll need to learn Sirah al Nabawiyya(history and deeds of the Prophets and Messengers), Fiqh(philosophy of Islamic law), Tauhid(concept of monotheism), Hadith(sayings and deeds attributed to Prophet Muhammad), Tafsir(Quranic exegesis; which is frankly what all your arguments have so far lacked.)

It would be a waste of time I've realized trying to discuss anything with you. And I wonder where you read of me comparing Jesus to Muhammad. We don't compare Prophets in Islam. Muhammad was a Prophet and Messenger of Allah: the last Prophet and the foundation of the muslim faith. I don't need to tell you about Isa(A.S) in Islam. I'm sure you've done your homework, but you close your eyes to the important things. Isa is also called "Ruhullah" means Isa is from Allah's spirit, from Allah's attributes and names or from divine spirit. Muslims also believe he will return to Earth before the Day of Judgment to restore justice and defeat al-Masih ad-Dajjal, or “the false messiah” — also known
as the Antichrist. There are whole lots of things about Jesus in Islam. Just as I'd say, check your Google.

Frankly, this is a fruitless venture. At this point, I'd say you can think whatever you think, sir.

Do I need to enroll in a quranic school before I can understand the text? It is written in black and white, I quoted from your books, what other meaning can you give it? The benefits of the prophet; that he asked women to sleep with him even after having 11 wives and sex slaves. So i need to go to an islamic university to understand what mohammed did despite it being written in the hadith.

Jesus is not Isa, his name has never been Isa, your prophet copied the quran from several sources , why not read a copy of the bible and see where he copied from. The quran contains mistakes like mentioning the Samaritans in the time of Moses, Moses being the uncle of Jesus, Noah entering into the fire etc. All these pieces have no end or tail, some stories even end abruptly (I know this cos I have read a physical copy of the quran).
All the characters the mohammed copied, read the bible to get the real story.

I will quote a narration of the Khybar battle from your books (not Google) and we will see what actually happened (or if I have to go to an islamic uni to understand)

here is

THE BATTLE OF KHAIBAR
Sahih Muslim
by Imam Muslim, translation by Abdul Hamid Siddiqui , Volume: The Book of Jihad and Expedition (Kitab Al-Jihad wa'l-Siyar)

It has been narrated on the authority of Anas that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) raided Khaibar. One morning we offered prayers in the darkness of early dawn (near Khaibar). Then the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) mounted (his horse). Abu Talha mounted his and I mounted behind Abu Talha on the same horse. The Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him) rode through the streets of Khaibar and (I rode so close to him) that my knee touched the thigh of the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him). The wrapper got aside from his thigh, and I could see its whiteness. When he entered the town, he said: God is Great. Khaibar shall face destruction. When we descend in the city-square of a people, it is a bad day for them who have been warned (and have not taken heed). He said these words thrice. The people of the town had just come out from (their houses) to go about their jobs. They said (in surprise): Muhammad has come. We captured Khaibar by force.
4438.
It has been narrated (through another chain of transmitters) on the authority of the same narrator (i. e. Anas) who said: I was riding behind Abu Talha on the day of the Battle of Khaibar (and we were riding so close to the Holy Prophet that) my foot would touch his We encountered the people at sunrise when they had come out with their axes, spades and strings driving their cattle along. They shouted (in surprise): Muhammad has come along with his force! The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Khaibar shall face destruction. Behold! when we descend in the city-square of a people, it is a bad day for those who have been warned (but have not taken heed). Allah, the Glorious and Majestic, inflicted defeat upon them.

http://www.theonlyquran.com/hadith/Sahih-Muslim/?volume=19&chapter=42

if we have to look at the history of the fight of Khybar.

The Battle of Khaybar (Arabic: غَزْوَة خَيْبَر‎) was fought in the year 628 between Muslims and the Jews living in the oasis of Khaybar, located 150 kilometers (93 mi) from Medina in the north-western part of the Arabian peninsula, in modern-day Saudi Arabia. According to Hagai Mazuz, "The Jewish community of northern Arabia was one of the largest ancient Jewish communities in the history of the Jewish people."[4] For almost a thousand years Jews lived in the oases of Teyma, Khaybar, and Yathrib (later known as Medina), in the northern Arabian peninsula. According to Muslim sources, the Muslim soldiers attacked the native Jews who had barricaded themselves in forts.[5]

Muslim sources accuse Jews living in Khaybar of a plan to unite with other Jews from Banu Wadi Qurra, Taima', Fadak as well as Ghatafan Arab tribe to attack Madinah.[6] Scottish historian William Montgomery Watt notes the presence in Khaybar of the Banu Nadir, who were working with neighboring Arab tribes to protect themselves from the Islamic community in Medina who had earlier sent into exile the Jewish tribes for violating the terms of the Charter of Medina and for conspiring to kill Muhammad.[7][8][9] Italian orientalist Laura Veccia Vaglieri claims other motives might have included the prestige the engagement would confer upon Muhammad among his followers, as well as the booty which could be used to supplement future campaigns.[10][11]

The Jews of Khaybar finally surrendered after seeing no way out and were allowed to live in the oasis on the condition that they would give one-half of their produce to the Muslims. Jews continued to live in the oasis for several more years until they were expelled by caliph Umar. The imposition of tribute upon the conquered Jews served as a precedent for provisions in the Islamic law requiring the exaction of tribute known as jizya from Dhimmi subjects in areas under Muslim rule, and confiscation of land belonging to non-Muslims into the collective property of the Muslim community.[10][12][13]

As you can see the muslims were the aggressors.

fortran12:


Do I need to enroll in a quranic school before I can understand the text? It is written in black and white, I quoted from your books, what other meaning can you give it? The benefits of the prophet; that he asked women to sleep with him even after having 11 wives and sex slaves. So i need to go to an islamic university to understand what mohammed did despite it being written in the hadith.

Jesus is not Isa, his name has never been Isa, your prophet copied the quran from several sources , why not read a copy of the bible and see where he copied from. The quran contains mistakes like mentioning the Samaritans in the time of Moses, Moses being the uncle of Jesus, Noah entering into the fire etc. All these pieces have no end or tail, some stories even end abruptly (I know this cos I have read a physical copy of the quran).
All the characters the mohammed copied, read the bible to get the real story.

I will quote a narration of the Khybar battle from your books (not Google) and we will see what actually happened (or if I have to go to an islamic uni to understand)

here is

THE BATTLE OF KHAIBAR
Sahih Muslim
by Imam Muslim, translation by Abdul Hamid Siddiqui , Volume: The Book of Jihad and Expedition (Kitab Al-Jihad wa'l-Siyar)

It has been narrated on the authority of Anas that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) raided Khaibar. One morning we offered prayers in the darkness of early dawn (near Khaibar). Then the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) mounted (his horse). Abu Talha mounted his and I mounted behind Abu Talha on the same horse. The Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him) rode through the streets of Khaibar and (I rode so close to him) that my knee touched the thigh of the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him). The wrapper got aside from his thigh, and I could see its whiteness. When he entered the town, he said: God is Great. Khaibar shall face destruction. When we descend in the city-square of a people, it is a bad day for them who have been warned (and have not taken heed). He said these words thrice. The people of the town had just come out from (their houses) to go about their jobs. They said (in surprise): Muhammad has come. We captured Khaibar by force.
4438.
It has been narrated (through another chain of transmitters) on the authority of the same narrator (i. e. Anas) who said: I was riding behind Abu Talha on the day of the Battle of Khaibar (and we were riding so close to the Holy Prophet that) my foot would touch his We encountered the people at sunrise when they had come out with their axes, spades and strings driving their cattle along. They shouted (in surprise): Muhammad has come along with his force! The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Khaibar shall face destruction. Behold! when we descend in the city-square of a people, it is a bad day for those who have been warned (but have not taken heed). Allah, the Glorious and Majestic, inflicted defeat upon them.

http://www.theonlyquran.com/hadith/Sahih-Muslim/?volume=19&chapter=42

if we have to look at the history of the fight of Khybar.

The Battle of Khaybar (Arabic: غَزْوَة خَيْبَر‎) was fought in the year 628 between Muslims and the Jews living in the oasis of Khaybar, located 150 kilometers (93 mi) from Medina in the north-western part of the Arabian peninsula, in modern-day Saudi Arabia. According to Hagai Mazuz, "The Jewish community of northern Arabia was one of the largest ancient Jewish communities in the history of the Jewish people."[4] For almost a thousand years Jews lived in the oases of Teyma, Khaybar, and Yathrib (later known as Medina), in the northern Arabian peninsula. According to Muslim sources, the Muslim soldiers attacked the native Jews who had barricaded themselves in forts.[5]

Muslim sources accuse Jews living in Khaybar of a plan to unite with other Jews from Banu Wadi Qurra, Taima', Fadak as well as Ghatafan Arab tribe to attack Madinah.[6] Scottish historian William Montgomery Watt notes the presence in Khaybar of the Banu Nadir, who were working with neighboring Arab tribes to protect themselves from the Islamic community in Medina who had earlier sent into exile the Jewish tribes for violating the terms of the Charter of Medina and for conspiring to kill Muhammad.[7][8][9] Italian orientalist Laura Veccia Vaglieri claims other motives might have included the prestige the engagement would confer upon Muhammad among his followers, as well as the booty which could be used to supplement future campaigns.[10][11]

The Jews of Khaybar finally surrendered after seeing no way out and were allowed to live in the oasis on the condition that they would give one-half of their produce to the Muslims. Jews continued to live in the oasis for several more years until they were expelled by caliph Umar. The imposition of tribute upon the conquered Jews served as a precedent for provisions in the Islamic law requiring the exaction of tribute known as jizya from Dhimmi subjects in areas under Muslim rule, and confiscation of land belonging to non-Muslims into the collective property of the Muslim community.[10][12][13]

As you can see the muslims were the aggressors.

Yes, you need some degree of knowledge on Islam before you can take stands on things, else you'll merely be postulating your own opinions which are not only highly flawed, but also prejudicial. This is because not everything in the Quran can be literally translated. You need the commentary, and also some knowledge of the historical context and the socioeconomic settings. That's why I feel like bursting into laughter whenever The Prophet is accused of being a terrorist, or in your words: the aggressor. If you knew the historical context, you'll know ancient Arabia was made of warring tribes, and the Prophet had bloodthirsty enemies up till the very day he died.

So taking up arms was with respect to protecting the budding community of Islam and its people, and I'm glad you made mention of the following in your Wikipedia copy and paste despite your claims of using--in your words--'our books'. I guess you don't use Google after all,and Wikipedia is merely one of the numerous books in your huge library. pasted here

I will quote the very words of Laura Veccia, the scholar whose words you copied and pasted for your strange, one-sided interpretation :

“The rapid spread of Islam was achieved,
not by force, nor by the ceaseless efforts
of missionaries. This spread rather goes
back to the fact that this book(Quran), presented
by the Muslims to the conquered peoples
who were given the free choice to accept
or reject it, is indeed the book of Allâh,
the word of truth and the greatest miracle
Muhammad was able to present to the
hesitant on earth."

I also own a copy of the Bible, the Good News Bible to be precise, and I don't claim to be an expert of Christian religious knowledge as you have done with Islam. Christianity, Judaism and Islam have similar origins because they are Abrahamic monotheisms, and not your very silly claim of one being copied from the other.

Christian Arabic name of Jesus
ﻳﺴﻮﻉ (Yasūʽ) is a phonetically
regular equivalent of Hebrew ישוע (Yešūaʽ), which
is and has been believed to be Jesus’ historic
name, the Qur'anic ﻋﻴﺴﻰ (ʽĪsā) is merely a phonetic modification.
The Qur'anic form (Isa) is meant to parallel Mūsā
(Moses). Similar pairs are also frequently found
in the Quran as well which supports this
theory. Compare Ismā‘īl and
Ibrāhīm (Ishmael and Abraham), Jālūt and
Tālūt (Goliath and Saul). So the Arabs referred to him as Yasaʿ, but the Quran
reversed the letters so as to parallel Mūsā.
Also, a 4th-century Persian
translation of Matthew which is one of the earliest
surviving Persian manuscripts of the scripture,
uses ʿĪsā. I suggest you provide evidence of etymology disproving the fact that Jesus isn't Isa.

If you insist Jesus isn't Isa, that's your opinion and 1.8 billion muslims won't agree with you. I have almost finished reading the entire New Testament and there are parts of it I as a Muslim would not accept, much is not contradictory to my own faith, and parts were
strikingly similar to the Quran.
I will not argue this point, I must confess I am not knowledgeable enough for it. But I would urge you to read on the divinity of
Jesus, with early Jewish Christianity(Jesus was a Jew after all) especially
as it comes to expression in the “Q” sayings
source, the Epistle of James and Jewish-
Christian sects like the Ebionites. Perhaps you would see the startling connections between the
theology of the Jewish followers of Jesus who
saw him as the promised messiah but not
divine and what Islam says on Jesus.

Kiddler:


Yes, you need some degree of knowledge on Islam before you can take stands on things, else you'll merely be postulating your own opinions which are not only highly flawed, but also prejudicial. This is because not everything in the Quran can be literally translated. You need the commentary, and also some knowledge of the historical context and the socioeconomic settings. That's why I feel like bursting into laughter whenever The Prophet is accused of being a terrorist, or in your words: the aggressor. If you knew the historical context, you'll know ancient Arabia was made of warring tribes, and the Prophet had bloodthirsty enemies up till the very day he died.

So taking up arms was with respect to protecting the budding community of Islam and its people, and I'm glad you made mention of the following in your Wikipedia copy and paste despite your claims of using--in your words--'our books'. I guess you don't use Google after all,and Wikipedia is merely one of the numerous books in your huge library. pasted here

I will quote the very words of Laura Veccia, the scholar whose words you copied and pasted for your strange, one-sided interpretation :

“The rapid spread of Islam was achieved,
not by force, nor by the ceaseless efforts
of missionaries. This spread rather goes
back to the fact that this book(Quran), presented
by the Muslims to the conquered peoples
who were given the free choice to accept
or reject it, is indeed the book of Allâh,
the word of truth and the greatest miracle
Muhammad was able to present to the
hesitant on earth."

I also own a copy of the Bible, the Good News Bible to be precise, and I don't claim to be an expert of Christian religious knowledge as you have done with Islam. Christianity, Judaism and Islam have similar origins because they are Abrahamic monotheisms, and not your very silly claim of one being copied from the other.

Christian Arabic name of Jesus
ﻳﺴﻮﻉ (Yasūʽ) is a phonetically
regular equivalent of Hebrew ישוע (Yešūaʽ), which
is and has been believed to be Jesus’ historic
name, the Qur'anic ﻋﻴﺴﻰ (ʽĪsā) is merely a phonetic modification.
The Qur'anic form (Isa) is meant to parallel Mūsā
(Moses). Similar pairs are also frequently found
in the Quran as well which supports this
theory. Compare Ismā‘īl and
Ibrāhīm (Ishmael and Abraham), Jālūt and
Tālūt (Goliath and Saul). So the Arabs referred to him as Yasaʿ, but the Quran
reversed the letters so as to parallel Mūsā.
Also, a 4th-century Persian
translation of Matthew which is one of the earliest
surviving Persian manuscripts of the scripture,
uses ʿĪsā. I suggest you provide evidence of etymology disproving the fact that Jesus isn't Isa.

If you insist Jesus isn't Isa, that's your opinion and 1.8 billion muslims won't agree with you. I have almost finished reading the entire New Testament and there are parts of it I as a Muslim would not accept, much is not contradictory to my own faith, and parts were
strikingly similar to the Quran.
I will not argue this point, I must confess I am not knowledgeable enough for it. But I would urge you to read on the divinity of
Jesus, with early Jewish Christianity(Jesus was a Jew after all) especially
as it comes to expression in the “Q” sayings
source, the Epistle of James and Jewish-
Christian sects like the Ebionites. Perhaps you would see the startling connections between the
theology of the Jewish followers of Jesus who
saw him as the promised messiah but not
divine and what Islam says on Jesus.

What missionaries did Mohammed send? If i am to believe the author u quoted so it means his quotation i used is also true . that Mohammed raided khybar to fund future campaigns. If you read what i bolded about khybar it shows the muslims were the aggressors. I used Wikipedia so you would see am being fair. Islam was spread by force not by missionaries.
You claim to have read the bible. The bible came long before fhe quran so its easy to know who copied who. Mohammed claimed there is a copy of the Qur'an in allahs paradise. Is it this same copy riddled with errors and the likes?. The hadith are explanations about the quran by your scholars. In islam you cannot have an opinion about the Qur'an. If you in doubt about any part the hadith should explain to u. The portion i quoted is an authentic hadith so you cant tell me it has a hidden meaning. Its just a narration of an event which shows the acts carried out by Mohammed.
If you read the new Testament and it says Jesus is the son of God and the Qur'an claims otherwise which will u believe is true as they can't both be right. The bible came hundreds of years before the quran so its easy to see the quran is a badly written rip off of the bible and some other books.

fortran12:


What missionaries did Mohammed send? If i am to believe the author u quoted so it means his quotation i used is also true . that Mohammed raided khybar to fund future campaigns. If you read what i bolded about khybar it shows the muslims were the aggressors. I used Wikipedia so you would see am being fair. Islam was spread by force not by missionaries.
You claim to have read the bible. The bible came long before fhe quran so its easy to know who copied who. Mohammed claimed there is a copy of the Qur'an in allahs paradise. Is it this same copy riddled with errors and the likes?. The hadith are explanations about the quran by your scholars. In islam you cannot have an opinion about the Qur'an. If you in doubt about any part the hadith should explain to u. The portion i quoted is an authentic hadith so you cant tell me it has a hidden meaning. Its just a narration of an event which shows the acts carried out by Mohammed.
If you read the new Testament and it says Jesus is the son of God and the Qur'an claims otherwise which will u believe is true as they can't both be right. The bible came hundreds of years before the quran so its easy to see the quran is a badly written rip off of the bible and some other books.

This is one of the fruitless actions I've ever undertaken. So, I'll leave you to your devices. You can think whatever you want to think.

Kiddler:


This is one of the fruitless actions I've ever undertaken. So, I'll leave you to your devices. You can think whatever you want to think.

You are trying to sit on the fence. There are texts i have quoted that narrate an event, if you have a text that shows that what i quoted is wrong show it.
You have to take a stand. You cant appeal to both

Useless post.

Am ready to be a Christian only if you can show me where in Bible it said girl should reach 18 years before she can get marry?

Kokoebapluse:
Useless post.

Am ready to be a Christian only if you can show me where in Bible it said girl should reach 18 years before she can get marry?

Why assume that the op is a Christian? Such depicts a lack of imagination. The op is an atheist.


Furthermore, Christians defer to secular law on the minimum age being 18. This is something that traditional muslim are refusing to do. The use puberty as a guide for female maturity

18 year old wife kills husband

https://www.nairaland.com/5873211/salman-hassan-stabs-husband-death#89804114

whitelotus:


A clown for telling the truth.

What is the ruling on marriagable age in islam? I dare you to answer.

Paedophilia is not Islam. It is a term coined by the west and been sold to the world.
There is no specific age for marriage in Islam, but to be marriageable, there is maturity, both physically and mentally.

It is the west and atheists like you that defined child marriage cos you want to create a perfect world without God. So, any practice that you cannot fathom you label it all kinds of names.

I also believe like many Muslims do, that a girl child should be mature enough before getting married. But you see poverty contributes a lot to marrying out girls very early by families who practice that and not cos the religion of Islam obligates it.

mhmsadyq:


Paedophilia is not Islam. It is a term coined by the west and been sold to the world.
There is no specific age for marriage in Islam, but to be marriageable, there is maturity, both physically and mentally.

It is the west and atheists like you that defined child marriage cos you want to create a perfect world without God. So, any practice that you cannot fathom you label it all kinds of names.

I also believe like many Muslims do, that a girl child should be mature enough before getting married. But you see poverty contributes a lot to marrying out girls very early by families who practice that and not cos the religion of Islam obligates it.

Puberty has been used for many centuries in islamic tradition to decide maturity for girls when it comes to marriage.


This is why Yerima, a nigerian senator married a 14 year old. A man in his 50s

whitelotus:



Puberty has been used for many centuries in islamic tradition to decide maturity for girls when it comes to marriage.


This is why Yerima, a nigerian senator married a 14 year old. A man in his 50s

୺

What is Puberty?

Then what is your contention?

mhmsadyq:

୺

What is Puberty?

Then what is your contention?

Why are you asking me what puberty is?

People are marrying girls that have just reached puberty in the name of islam and that is your question. Are you morally bankrupt?

whitelotus:



Why are you asking me what puberty is?

People are marrying girls that have just reached puberty in the name of islam and that is your question. Are you morally bankrupt?

What is puberty?

mhmsadyq:


What is puberty?

Google is your friend

whitelotus:



Google is your friend

Ok.
Since you don't know the meaning of puberty, stop using it to blackmail Muslims.

I am done with you!

mhmsadyq:



Ok.
Since you don't know the meaning of puberty, stop using it to blackmail Muslims.

I am done with you!

You are only making a fool of yourself. So, you honestly believe that as an adult, I do not know what puberty is?

My own be say; bro kiddler[b], jazakallahu khayran fii dunya wal akhira[/b]

AryEmber:
My own be say; bro kiddler[b], jazakallahu khayran fii dunya wal akhira[/b]

Write in English.

rule 21

whitelotus:



Write in English.

rule 21

Maybe I lost my sense of humour, not funny

AryEmber:
Maybe I lost my sense of humour, not funny

Of course, underage marriage is not a joke

whitelotus:


Of course, underage marriage is not joke

Ok