Oghenerobo2002:

He does!!

Then you don't have freewill.

Oghenerobo2002:

He does!!

He does?

So all he do is relax and watch all that he already knew to play out?

Can what God know about how I will use my freewill not come to pass?

If God knows I will use my freewill to eat rice, can I use same freewill to eat beans?

Trueigbo:
Yesterday my 11 year old daughter ask me a question and struggled to answer her. She said Dad since God is first and last and knows everything, why did he create us when he knows we will sin against him.

Infact i cant remember what I answered but i had to end it before she ask another question.

Biko who can help answer the question.

Your daughter is at the edge of breaking the chain of ignorance. Please don't force your belief on her.

What she asked perfectly make sense. Just tell her you don't know the answer. Shre will find her way out of religion in the future.

TrajansKong:
The child is possessed by demons.

He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. Proverbs 13:24

So it has been written. So it shall be done.

I don't find pleasure in insulting people, but I must say you are a tyrant. Beating a child for asking question You are worse than Hitler

Modified - I just realised your sarcasm. My insult is hereby redirected to the god of the Bible who legislated the beating of children.

frank317:


He does?

So all he do is relax and watch all that he already knew to play out?

Can what God know about how I will use my freewill not come to pass?

If God knows I will use my freewill to eat rice, can I use same freewill to eat beans?

I understand ur point of view and really, there was a time I was on same page. Remember, the bible says we are saved by grace. Judas was told he would betray Jesus, he couldn't change that. Same with Peter who was told will deny Jesus and it happened.
To a large extent, u r right, what other choice do we have than to try to make the right choices?
God knows all.

frank317:


A young probably innocent girl has been raped and killed... What else can make God's anger say enough is enough.

I am a father, I cannot watch my neighbour's dog bite my child and still be waiting for when enough is enough.. Guy please.

that's why you don't get it!

Children fighting over toys, books, biscuits Shall Always Amuse Parents (the father).

To the children it is Always A Very Very Serious Matter but to the father it is Always A Very Small Thing

We, and the murdered lady are all children before the Most High, to us it Must Always be a Serious Issue but for Him, it is still one of the many issues He handles, for He is very very Aware of all that is going on as a Father and He will Deal with them all, When HE wishes to deal with them, just as You also handled your children's biscuit, book and exam events, in the Day and Time that You were Ready To Deal With Them Allll!

So fret not, even the hair that fell down from your bear-bear and head (you yourself no even know) and the rats and cockroaches and chickens You don kill, HE SAW, HE KNOWS!

HE Will Deal With Them All When Ready!

MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://s4/images/orijin-bitters.jpg[/img]
I trust you really weren't addressing this response to me sha but actually was directed at daejoyoung

Whoever you had in mind, still have this chilled bottle of orijin plus a truckload of kolanuts and after, sharp sharp, be next governor of your state of origin.

Right on point on all accounts. Wehdone Sir! Please drink responsibly though.

. Sluurp, Aah! Thanks for the Drink

Dtruthspeaker:


that's why you don't get it!

Children fighting over toys, books, biscuits Shall Always Amuse Parents (the father).

To the children it is Always A Very Very Serious Matter but to the father it is Always A Very Small Thing

We, and the murdered lady are all children before the Most High, to us it Must Always be a Serious Issue but for Him, it is still one of the many issues He handles, for He is very very Aware of all that is going on as a Father and He will Deal with them all, When HE wishes to deal with them, just as You also handled your children's biscuit, book and exam events, in the Day and Time that You were Ready To Deal With Them Allll!

So fret not, even the hair that fell down from your bear-bear and head (you yourself no even know) and the rats and cockroaches and chickens You don kill, HE SAW, HE KNOWS!

HE Will Deal With Them All When Ready!

This theory is old sir.

God knows the severity of killing. He's not a robot that has no feelings.

Why did he condemn killing if he think it is small thing.

STOP DEFENDING GOD. LET HIM COME OUT AND DEFEND HIMSELF.

You guys are funny. You compare God to us when you think it align to your response ONLY.

Next time, don't tell me God must not be compared to human. His way is not our way.. Bla.. Bla.. Bla

ochibuogwu5:
God decided on His own choice to create human beings with free-will (Romans 11:33)
This free-will makes us His creatures to relate with HIM and all other of His creatures based upon our choice as well as reap the rewards of each choice.
Using our free-will to receive His eternal life through belief in the death and resurrection of His Son Jesus Christ Crucified in order to manifest HIS perfect-will on earth and spend eternity in His Heavenly Kingdom with HIM is *much easier* than using our free-will to disbelief the Gospel of Jesus Christ Crucified because of the provision of *HIS GRACE SUFFICIENTLY FOR EACH HUMAN BEING FROM CONCEPTION TILL BIOLOGICAL DEATH* this is why
Jesus declared both for *Believers and unbelievers*....
"...there is no excuse for sin, there is no excuse to spend eternity in hell-fire because (GOD has come to us in the human nature to uplift us through his death and resurrection unto HIS DIVINE NATURE)"
(John 15:22)

Anybody who refuses to believe in Jesus Christ Crucified has *condemned himself/herself* hence it is not God who condemns any human being to hell-fire again
(John 3:18)

May the Holy Spirit enlighten the eyes of our mind to understand the call He has bestowed upon us through our belief in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Amen.

Have you ever imagined if Muslim God (Allah) is the right God? He promised to keep replacing your burnt skin in hell over and over so that you could feel the pain

What if you die and find out that God ONLY want Islam and not Christianity

frank317:


U didn't come close to answering my question.

If I KNOW that giving my child a gun will make him use his freewill to shoot his sister and himself, I will never give him the gun.

Ur God knows freewill will bring a mess to man and the world he still went ahead to give it... He could have done better... Except u are saying the only choice he had was to give man freewill or create man as robot.

First of all you are a fool for giving your children a gun for you know and ought to know that your child must use it.

Secondly, you have been using your freewill jejely and correctly like your child driving your car. E Don dey drive well since, dat na why you dey let am drive d motor. The day E con jam, U no go ask am wetin happen?

So it is with our Father, Most High unto Us.

Learn to take Responsibility for all your acts. Once you have power to act, you are already immediately liable for it, just like renting a house and you no wan pay rent, U wan Kon dey blame landlord for giving you house, rather than pay your rent.

My friend, man shall always be responsible for his actions and Inactions and Must Explain Himself To His High Ogas!

Oghenerobo2002:

I understand ur point of view and really, there was a time I was on same page. Remember, the bible says we are saved by grace. Judas was told he would betray Jesus, he couldn't change that. Same with Peter who was told will deny Jesus and it happened.
To a large extent, u r right, what other choice do we have than to try to make the right choices?
God knows all.

When something does not make sense it is important we point it out that it does not make sense... If God exists he should not blame ur pointing out the senselessness in things he does except he is a tyrant.

MuttleyLaff:
Daejoyoung, nwanne, brother, you're trying to say that there is no freewill, and so then implying because of that, human beings can't be held morally responsible for their actions because according to you "que sera, sera" what would be would be, and nothing can change that coming from an argument that all everyone and everything, humans, animals and things are each and all doing is following the lines in a scripted destiny and fate existence.

I am not against freewill. My having freewill is part of what sets me apart from an animal, object and/or whatever phenomena you can imagine.

Whether freewill is exercised or not exercised, freewill is intrinsically present in every human being and to be made use of as of from when maturely able to. Adam & Eve were matured enough to put freewill into use, so they did and the rest is history.

Now, please tell Daejoyoung, do you really believe that you don't have freewill?

But he's right though. Having a free will contradicts God being omniscient. If he knows what exactly is going to happen, then you actually have absolutely no free will.

Daejoyoung:

Is God merely predicting how we use our freewill, or he already knew how we would use it even before he created anything?

We were created Perfect to do Good Things Only and generally being incapable of doing wrongs not to talk of even doing evil.

And we were doing it Until Adam Completely Destroyed that our incapacity to do wrongs, by letting Satan (who is whole Evil) enter into our soul, who was outside of us like that our wicked neighbour.

But now, that our wicked neighbour lives in our good house and we are unable to throw him out, like that our wicked Relation who lives with us in our house, but we no fit troway am comot. And Father is watching us how we shall deal with him, After All, He Warned Us, Not To Let Him Enter Our House, and we understood and agreed with Him.

But, Finally, One Day, because E Don dey disturb you too much, U Kon forget wetin your Papa talk and you Kon let am enter house.

Now, you no fit troway am comot, so therefore, you na must to wait for Papa, wen E get una time, to troway d bastard comot.

But till den, d struggle Continues!

fieryy:
But he's right though. Having a free will contradicts God being omniscient. If he knows what exactly is going to happen, then you actually have absolutely no free will.

Let me face you then instead of Daejoyoung, who has gone quiet on me and ask you this direct question fieryy. Do you or do you not, have freewill?

Depending on how you answer, the next thing I'll be going for is, I am going to ask, if you are prepared to do an exercise to prove whether or not, you really do or don't have freewill, so be careful how you answer the above question. Waiting for your reply

Dtruthspeaker:


that's why you don't get it!

Children fighting over toys, books, biscuits Shall Always Amuse Parents (the father).

To the children it is Always A Very Very Serious Matter but to the father it is Always A Very Small Thing

We, and the murdered lady are all children before the Most High, to us it Must Always be a Serious Issue but for Him, it is still one of the many issues He handles, for He is very very Aware of all that is going on as a Father and He will Deal with them all, When HE wishes to deal with them, just as You also handled your children's biscuit, book and exam events, in the Day and Time that You were Ready To Deal With Them Allll!

So fret not, even the hair that fell down from your bear-bear and head (you yourself no even know) and the rats and cockroaches and chickens You don kill, HE SAW, HE KNOWS!

HE Will Deal With Them All When Ready!

So u are saying God sees the murder and rape of an innocent girl, the heart break of her friends and family and all the sadness that surrounds this event just the way we as parents see our kids fight over their toys?

Are u and ur God kidding me?

If ur little girl gets raped will u sit down and say God will take care of it in his time?

What a pathetic and lame excuse for a supposedly almighty loving God. U guys are funny.

Is this what u pride ur self as 'u have answered me?'

I am sorry but u are not psychologically balanced.

frank317:


When something does not make sense it is important we point it out that it does not make sense... If God exists he should not blame ur pointing out the senselessness in things he does except he is a tyrant.

I believe u r not wayward, a drunk, or into any society. Why have u not done blood money? Or sleep with as many women as in the city? That's because u made a choice and living by it. Those that chosed the above, was it Gods fault? No is the answer. As much as we want to fault God for his 'know all', we also have a big role to play. That's the choice. We have chosen to become successful the right way instead of the other way.

MuttleyLaff:
Let me face you then instead of Daejoyoung, who has gone quiet on me and ask you this direct question fieryy. Do you or do you not, have freewill?

Depending on how you answer, the next thing I'll be going for is, I am going to ask, if you are prepared to do an exercise to prove whether or not, you really do or don't have freewill, so be careful how you answer the above question. Waiting for your reply

Lol, I actually answered you, I have freewill but from the view point of an omniscient God, it is useless.

Xmuslim:


This theory is old sir.

God knows the severity of killing. He's not a robot that has no feelings.

Why did he condemn killing if he think it is small thing.

STOP DEFENDING GOD. LET HIM COME OUT AND DEFEND HIMSELF.

You guys are funny. You compare God to us when you think it align to your response ONLY.

Next time, don't tell me God must not be compared to human. His way is not our way.. Bla.. Bla.. Bla

I am God's Lawyer! And I am here for that Purpose!

You can't even answer me, your fellow man, is it now in His Presence, you shall be able to raise your head?

But don't worry He has Already Promised That One Day, He Would call all of you together, to Answer You! (Like you are all waiting for your Buhari to "speech", today)

Dtruthspeaker:


First of all you are a fool for giving your children a gun for you know and ought to know that your child must use it.

That's how stupid ur God was when he dropped the tree of knowledge in garden for Adam and eve knowing that they will definitely go eat it and mess his world up.

Secondly, you have been using your freewill jejely and correctly like your child driving your car. E Don dey drive well since, dat na why you dey let am drive d motor. The day E con jam, U no go ask am wetin happen?

The real question is, is God perfectly OK with the trun out of freewill that he already knows will not turn out well?

Learn to take Responsibility for all your acts. Once you have power to act, you are already immediately liable for it, just like renting a house and you no wan pay rent, U wan Kon dey blame landlord for giving you house, rather than pay your rent.

U are the one who believes that ur all knowing God knew that outcome of our freewill but created us to use it and mess up anyways. U are the one who should learn to take responsibility of ur actions instead of believing being knows all actions u take with ur freewill.
If my landlord knows I will not pay my rent he will not give me the house. But if he knows I will not pay and still give me the house, then he is to blame for my actions because he should have avoided the mess in the first place. My actions will happen because he knows it will happen.
I don't believe in any nonsense confusing being and know my actions are totally my responsibility.. I and just worried for u.

My friend, man shall always be responsible for his actions and Inactions and Must Explain Himself To His High Ogas!

Drink u own bitter pills and use ur brain. U cannot be a married bachelor.. U cannot believe that ur creator knew about u and ur actions even before u were born and still believe that u are responsible of ur actions... U are just trying to play safe for nothing and look at were it has brought u.

frank317:


So u are saying God sees the murder and rape of an innocent girl, the heart break of her friends and family and all the sadness that surrounds this event just the way we as parents see our kids fight over their toys?

Are u and ur God kidding me?

If ur little girl gets raped will u sit down and say God will take care of it in his time?

What a pathetic and lame excuse for a supposedly almighty loving God. U guys are funny.

Is this what u pride ur self as 'u have answered me?'

I am sorry but u are not psychologically balanced.

My answer will not change. We are all children fighting over land, who took my thing, why did you beat me, why did you this me, why did you that me, quarrelling and fighting and Destroying our Father's Property.

It is All the same thing. He is Father (Up There), we are babies (Down here).

Dtruthspeaker:




I am God's Lawyer! And I am here for that Purpose!

You can't even answer me, your fellow man, is it now in His Presence, you shall be able to raise your head?

But don't worry He has Already Promised That One Day, He Would call all of you together, to Answer You! (Like you are all waiting for your Buhari to "speech", today)

Weldone the barrister

MuttleyLaff:
Let me face you then instead of Daejoyoung, who has gone quiet on me and ask you this direct question fieryy. Do you or do you not, have freewill?

Depending on how you answer, the next thing I'll be going for is, I am going to ask, if you are prepared to do an exercise to prove whether or not, you really do or don't have freewill, so be careful how you answer the above question. Waiting for your reply

Of course, I do. What does this have to do with me though? Or the concept of God being omniscient and us having a free will contradicting itself? Us having a free will doesn't counter the contradiction

fieryy:
But he's right though. Having a free will contradicts God being omniscient.
If He knows what exactly is going to happen, then you actually have absolutely no free will.

MuttleyLaff:
Let me face you then instead of Daejoyoung, who has gone quiet on me and ask you this direct question fieryy.
Do you or do you not, have freewill?

Depending on how you answer, the next thing I'll be going for is, I am going to ask, if you are prepared to do an exercise to prove whether or not, you really do or don't have freewill, so be careful how you answer the above question.
Waiting for your reply

fieryy:
Of course, I do. What does this have to do with me though? Or the concept of God being omniscient and us having a free will contradicting itself? Us having a free will doesn't counter the contradiction

You are contradicting yourself dahling. You're straddling both sides of the fence. Please make up your mind.

frank317:


That's how stupid ur God was when he dropped the tree of knowledge in garden for Adam and eve knowing that they will definitely go eat it and mess his world up.


The real question is, is God perfectly OK with the trun out of freewill that he already knows will not turn out well?



U are the one who believes that ur all knowing God knew that outcome of our freewill but created us to use it and mess up anyways. U are the one who should learn to take responsibility of ur actions instead of believing being knows all actions u take with ur freewill.
If my landlord knows I will not pay my rent he will not give me the house. But if he knows I will not pay and still give me the house, then he is to blame for my actions because he should have avoided the mess in the first place. My actions will happen because he knows it will happen.
I don't believe in any nonsense confusing being and know my actions are totally my responsibility.. I and just worried for u.



Drink u own bitter pills and use ur brain. U cannot be a married bachelor.. U cannot believe that ur creator knew about u and ur actions even before u were born and still believe that u are responsible of ur actions... U are just trying to play safe for nothing and look at were it has brought u.

You have already been employed to do your work, it's best you run along and do your work before your Oga comes and meet you grumbling and idle-ling!

Unless of course you want to see what Oga shall do to You.

All the wahala wey dey happen for office (world), na Oga na I'm dey handle am, na Oga, go handle am. Una own na to only report as you don do.

But with all these your grumblings, no worry, you dey even hurry Oga make Him Come Quick make Him for Deal with all these issues wey una don Report.

I hope say, you know say, dem don Report you too? The pikin wey report you too, dey cry make Him for Put Mouth for the matter as you dey cry for your own.

I say, don't Worry, He is Coming to Settle All Issues.

Xmuslim:


Weldone the barrister

Thank you.

MuttleyLaff:




You are contradicting yourself dahling. You're straddling both sides of the fence. Please make up your mind.

Ehhhhhn

Whaaaaat?

Can you explain why? I'm genuinely confused

Oghenerobo2002:

I believe u r not wayward, a drunk, or into any society. Why have u not done blood money? Or sleep with as many women as in the city? That's because u made a choice and living by it. Those that chosed the above, was it Gods fault? No is the answer. As much as we want to fault God for his 'know all', we also have a big role to play. That's the choice. We have chosen to become successful the right way instead of the other way.

I take responsibility for my actions. I do not steal or do blood money because I know the consequences of these acts and I am not ready to damn them.

This discussion is not about all that neither is it about me faulting God or anything.

The discussion is about u believing that God knows me and u or the parents of the girl that was Murdered will go through this pains as a result of freewill and will went ahead to create the world just be as messed up and he already know...

Who then is faulting God here? Is it u that believe in the shit about God or me that don't believe any God is capable of such stupidity?

Dtruthspeaker:


My answer will not change. We are all children fighting over land, who took my thing, why did you beat me, why did you this me, why did you that me, quarrelling and fighting and Destroying our Father's Property.

It is All the same thing. He is Father (Up There), we are babies (Down here).

How does this stop him from understanding the pain of the little girl that was Murdered and the pain her parents would go through and understand that his actions at that moment will make things better for the parties involved?

OH sorry, he already knows and is enjoying the show.

fieryy:
But he's right though. Having a free will contradicts God being omniscient.
If He knows what exactly is going to happen, then you actually have absolutely no free will.

MuttleyLaff:
Let me face you then instead of Daejoyoung, who has gone quiet on me and ask you this direct question fieryy.
Do you or do you not, have freewill?

Depending on how you answer, the next thing I'll be going for is, I am going to ask, if you are prepared to do an exercise to prove whether or not, you really do or don't have freewill, so be careful how you answer the above question.
Waiting for your reply

fieryy:
Of course, I do.
What does this have to do with me though?
Or the concept of God being omniscient and us having a free will contradicting itself?
Us having a free will doesn't counter the contradiction

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fieryy:
Ehhhhhn
Whaaaaat?
Can you explain why? I'm genuinely confused

I am not surprised you are genuinely confused

Please don't ask me to explain to you how you are contradicting yourself dahling. You're straddling both sides of the fence. You can't have your cake and eat it. You can't say there is no freewill because God is omni knowing, know all, then turn round, to then say and admit, you do have freewill, after you've earlier agreed that there isn't freewill, lmao. Please make up your mind.

MuttleyLaff:

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---

---

I am not surprised you are genuinely confused

Please don't ask me to explain to you how you are contradicting yourself dahling. You're straddling both sides of the fence. . You can't have your cake and eat it. You can't say there is no freewill because God is omni knowing, know all, then turn round to then say and admit, you do have freewill, after you've earlier agreed that there isn't freewill, lmao. Please make up your mind.

Lmaoooooooooo


If God is omniscient, then there's no freewill
If there's free will, God is not omniscient

Those 2 sentences are very simple to understand.

Xmuslim:
This theory is old sir.

God knows the severity of killing. He's not a robot that has no feelings.

Why did he condemn killing if he think it is small thing.

STOP DEFENDING GOD. LET HIM COME OUT AND DEFEND HIMSELF.

You guys are funny. You compare God to us when you think it align to your response ONLY.

Next time, don't tell me God must not be compared to human. His way is not our way.. Bla.. Bla.. Bla

Dtruthspeaker:

I am God's Lawyer! And I am here for that Purpose!
You can't even answer me, your fellow man, is it now in His Presence, you shall be able to raise your head?
But don't worry He has Already Promised That One Day, He Would call all of you together, to Answer You!
(Like you are all waiting for your Buhari to "speech", today)

[img]https://s5/images/ezgif-2-bb81ab7ea10d.gif[/img]

fieryy:
Lmaoooooooooo

If God is omniscient, then there's no freewill
If there's free will, God is not omniscient

Those 2 sentences are very simple to understand.

I like your "hand caught still in the cookie jar nicking" mischievous lmao laugh.

Those two sentences are very simple to understand and very easy to spot the contradiction too. Also how you like to eat your cake and have it too

Animals and objects don't have freewill, yet God is forever sovereign. He is forever Omniscient.

Freewill is what makes you distinct and/or recognisable different from an animal, object and/or phenomenon. It is because of freewill that you are busy typing away here on Nairaland and not deciding to voluntarily die or intentionally kill yourself before your time, lmao.