tintingz:


Well, the OP asked for empirical evidence before he can be convinced Yahweh exist. Which is very valid.

Not quite! Op can ask, of course, but any knowledgeable Bible reader would tell op to get behind them satan, for it is very clearly written, that "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image", which is exactly what empirical evidence is. And the reason thou shalt not is because any graven image is clearly not God.

The pity here is some Christians don't mind disobeying the God they merely believe in and are easily led to sin.

budaatum:

Not quite! Op can ask, of course, but any knowledgeable Bible reader would tell op to get behind them satan, for it is very clearly written, that "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image", which is exactly what empirical evidence is. And the reason thou shalt not is because any graven image is clearly not God. .

According to the Bible, believers are not even supposed to say that!

Kobojunkie:

According to the Bible, believers are not even supposed to say that!

Believers might not be supposed to say that, but those who understand their God book would have learnt from the person who's name the religion they claim to follow came from.

budaatum:
Believers might not be supposed to say that, but those who understand their God book would have learnt from the person who's name the religion they claim to follow came from.

Jesus also said something like "If you have seen me, you have seen my father"... Do those same believers repeat the very same claim of their person?

There is even a warning in the book of Jude(yeah, he was a disciple of Jesus Christ), clearly warning them to desist from such acts. It is in their God Book.

budaatum:

See us see trouble o! Its why I asked him if I started this thread!

He did not understand

budaatum:

Not quite! Op can ask, of course, but any knowledgeable Bible reader would tell op to get behind them satan, for it is very clearly written, that "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image", which is exactly what empirical evidence is. And the reason thou shalt not is because any graven image is clearly not God.

The pity here is some Christians don't mind disobeying the God they merely believe in and are easily led to sin.

Ok

Kobojunkie:

Jesus also said something like "If you have seen me, you have seen my father"... Do those same believers repeat the very same claim of their person?

There is even a warning in the book of Jude(yeah, he was a disciple of Jesus Christ), clearly warning them to desist from such acts. It is in their God Book.

Sometime ago, and for a long time [url=https://www.nairaland.com/search?q=spanking+brand+new+red+Ferrari%2C&search=Search]I believed I had a million pounds in my bank account and wanted to buy a spanking brand new red Ferrari with it[/url]. Unfortunately, for me, no Ferrari salesperson would accept the one million pounds I believed I had for a spanking brand new red Ferrari, so I gave up and now walk and get the bus.

Believers believe whatever they want to believe. That does not make a belief valid. The God book even has it written in it that demons believes, and last time I checked, God would not exactly want anyone emulating demons.

Please see here where it is believed that the earth is flat and made of swiss chese. "It is", I assert, "because it is believed!"

Now, regarding Jesus and his, "If you have seen me, you have seen my father". Are you aware he is also written to have said, "In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. Does that not explain what he might have meant by "If you have seen me, you have seen my father"? In fact, every follower of Christ should make that claim, but they must first ensure their fruits match.

If you can be specific about your reference to Jude, I am very willing, for while I cannot attempt to provide you with empirical evidence for a God, we can at least accept we both can read a book and learn.

budaatum:
Now, regarding Jesus and his, "If you have seen me, you have seen my father". Are you aware he is also written to have said, "In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. Does that not explain what he might have meant by "If you have seen me, you have seen my father"?

Matthew 5 vs 16
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16. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

No, I do not believe that to be what He meant at all.

John 8 vs 12
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12. Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

budaatum:
If you can be specific about your reference to Jude, I am very willing, for while I cannot attempt to provide you with empirical evidence for a God, we can at least accept we both can read a book and learn.

There is only one chapter to the book of Jude. LOL

Jude 1 vs 7-10
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7. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
9. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
10. But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

Kobojunkie:

No, I do not believe that to be what He meant at all.

I am not concerned nor am I asking you to or if you believe.

Could you kindly let me know what you understand by it instead of what you may believe please.

Kobojunkie:
There is only one chapter to the book of Jude. LOL

That skipped my mind. lol.

[url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2012:24&version=KJV]Some said[/url] Jesus was one of these, "ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord".

And some say buda is one of those too.

I say, [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A15-20&version=NKJV]by our fruits are we known[/url].

John 8 vs 12
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12. Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

For the above, we would first need to answer the question, What is Jesus?

Care to have a go? Try to limit to what you understand, if you can. I am very uninterested in what is believed.

budaatum:

For the above, we would first need to answer the question, What is Jesus?
Care to have a go? Try to limit to what you understand, if you can. I am very uninterested in what is believed.

Why a "What"?

Kobojunkie:

Why a "What"?

Very intelligent observation on your part.
That, however, is the question. So, think.

And no. It's not a trick question.
One must know "what" one is following.

budaatum:

Very intelligent observation on your part.
That, however, is the question. So, think.

And no. It's not a trick question.
One must know "what" one is following.

The very Word of God's own mouth, in human form(God's human avatar of sorts), is not a "what" to me.

Kobojunkie:
The very Word of God's own mouth, in human form(God's human avatar of sorts), is not a "what" to me.

Have you not answered a 'what' question above?

budaatum:
Have you not answered a 'what' question above?

If the Word can manifest in Human form, I believe it disrespectful, by human standards, to address Him as a "what". A being of that sort is certainly deserving of our every respect.

Kobojunkie:
If the Word can manifest in Human form, I believe it disrespectful, by human standards, to address Him as a "what". A being of that sort is certainly deserving of our every respect.

Forget "respect"! especially if it's going to make you disrespect yourself by being dishonest and refusing to acknowledge the truth. If you are [url=https://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+6%3A31&version=NIV]dishonest to yourself, you'd be dishonest to me your neighbour[/url]. And if you are dishonest to the [url=https://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25%3A40&version=NIV]least of these[/url], you have dishonored God!

Jesus must clearly be a "what". All your responses indicate so. Do you see it, or not please so we can move on?

budaatum:

Forget "respect"! especially if it's going to make you disrespect yourself by being dishonest and refusing to acknowledge the truth. If you are [url=https://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+6%3A31&version=NIV]dishonest to yourself, you'd be dishonest to me your neighbour[/url]. And if you are dishonest to the [url=https://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25%3A40&version=NIV]least of these[/url], you have dishonored God!
Jesus must clearly be a "what". All your responses indicate so. Do you see it, or not please so we can move on?

I honestly don't see it.

Kobojunkie:
I honestly don't see it.

I'm not surprised. And I respect your admission.

One of the things that stops us seeing is the baggage we bring to the table in the form of misconceptions and beliefs we grow up with. It's why it is written that "unless one becomes like a child one shall not enter the Kingdom of God". It means, 'unless one abandons one's beliefs and misconceptions, one would not gain understanding and wisdom'. And abandoning beliefs and misconceptions is as hard as a huge camel going through a small needle's eye.

I'm enjoying your intelligence, and the fact you have read the book. I can have Christ spit on mud and make clay to rub in your eyes, but I still have to wait for you to go bath in the [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+9%3A1-12&version=NIV]Pool of Siloam[/url] so you can see on rereading your own responses that you did answer a very important 'what' question.

Here's a rhetorical clue. It's not asked to be answered: If one does not know what the light is how can one be certain of following it?

What type of evidence would you accept as objective?

budaatum:

One of the things that stops us seeing is the baggage we bring to the table in the form of misconceptions and beliefs we grow up with. It's why it is written that "unless one becomes like a child one shall not enter the Kingdom of God". It means, 'unless one abandons one's beliefs and misconceptions, one would not gain understanding and wisdom'. And abandoning beliefs and misconceptions is as hard as a huge camel going through a small needle's eye.

I am afraid you are mistaken. The above has nothing to do with my stance on the use of the word "what" to qualify a being of such greatness.

budaatum:
I'm enjoying you intelligence, and the fact you have read the book. I can have Christ spit on mud and make clay to rub in your eyes, but I still have to wait for you to go bath in the [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+9%3A1-12&version=NIV]Pool of Siloam[/url] so you can see on rereading your own responses that you did answer a very important 'what' question.

I don't need a special pool! I am already where He wants me to be right this moment.

budaatum:
Here's a rhetorical clue. It's not asked to be answered: If one does not know what the light is how can one be certain of following it?

Really?

Daejoyoung:
What type of evidence would you accept as an objective?

According to God, the only evidence would be the light of Jesus shining right through you

Matthew 5 vs 14-16
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14. “You are the light that shines for the world to see. You are like a city built on a hill that cannot be hidden.
15. People don’t hide a lamp under a bowl. They put it on a lampstand. Then the light shines for everyone in the house.
16. In the same way, you should be a light for other people. Live so that they will see the good things you do and praise your Father in heaven.

Kobojunkie:
I am afraid you are mistaken. The above has nothing to do with my stance on the use of the word "what" to qualify a being of such greatness.
I don't need a special pool! I am already where He wants me to be right this moment.
Really?

My bad. I had no intention to patronize you.

Are you saying you understand that you did answer a 'what' question?

If so, now kindly explain to me how Jesus can be said to be the Light of the World".

budaatum:

My bad. I had no intention to patronize you.
Are you saying you understand that you did answer a 'what' question?
If so, now kindly explain to me how Jesus can be said to be the Light of the World".

You say "what", I say "Who"!

John 1 vs 1-5
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1. “Before the world began, the Word[a] was there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2. He was there with God in the beginning.
3. Everything was made through him, and nothing was made without him.
4. In him there was life, and that life was a light for the people of the world.
5. The light[b] shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not defeated[c] it.

Is God a "what"?

Kobojunkie:
You say "what", I say "Who"!

Yet, in order to ensure we live not by bread alone and become malnourished, we both must ask who, what, when, where, why, and how.

Anything less is lazy willful blindness.

budaatum:

Yet, in order to ensure we live not by bread alone and become malnourished, we both must ask who, what, when, where, why, and how.

Anything less is lazy willful blindness.

I have already asked those questions and decided on the most appropriate question though... the Who.

MightySparrow:
. that you don't believe a thing is choice and your disbelieve does not erase the existence of the thing.

I hate seeing this crap...
It's either you have evidence or not.
Which one is, "the fact that you don't believe does not mean he doesn't exist"... This is a very childish and ignorant statement. Prove it or keep shut.

Tmach137:

This is probably the most generic response any Christian would ave given to my question . Everything is just as expected. The smug ad hominem , the false sense of knowledge ,....

I just learnt something today.
We learn everyday.
This is exactly what Christians do.
Most of them result to insults. Some are capable of being violent once you opposs their beliefs with good points.

You are not the author of the definition of God.
Listing the criteria that must be met before you accept that God exists remains a delusion.

God will not condescend to fit into your wrong, misinformed way of what God should be.

DEATH will awaken the spiritual eyes, no debate when you take your last breathe.

kingxsamz:


I hate seeing this crap...
It's either you have evidence or not.
Which one is, "the fact that you don't believe does not mean he doesn't exist"... This is a very childish and ignorant statement. Prove it or keep shut.

An evidence that god exists is you. he claims to have created you, don't you exist?

MightySparrow:
An evidence that god exists is you. he claims to have created you, don't you exist?

kingxsamz:

Which one is abuse na. Electricity claims to have created light in a bulb, the bulb now ask for a proof for existence of electricity and the light can deny its own existence.

MightySparrow:
Which one is abuse na. Electricity claims to have created light in a bulb, the bulb now ask for a proof for existence of electricity and the light can deny its own existence.

Except that light bulb and electricity can be examined, identified and proven.

So that analogy cannot work.
You can't use logic to defend the illogical.