Katsumoto:

Is superior intellect linked with using thugs and assassins?

Absolutely.
It is one thing to be able to pay the thugs to do your bidding, it is another thing entirely to have them do it exactly how you want.  Make no mistake about think, not all thugs get paid to do what they do. Some thugs do what they do  because they believe in the message/person of the hirer. Most of the thugs working for Omisore don't get paid. This I know first hand. Omisore has a way with words and has a way of getting people to do his bidding. Same thing with Bola Ige, you and I know that Bola Ige was one of the smartest Nigerians ever. His close associates dont call him'Cicero' for nothing. He does not have to pay to get people to do what he wants, good or bad; he simply needs to use his creative brain power to move people to action. The ability to hire thugs to do your bidding can be likened to the ability of other influential world personalities like Obama, Gandhi and Clinton, and Mandela to move people through soaring rhetoric and  appealing rhythms. Many psychologists agree that oratory skills and  ability to move and influence people are indicative of one's creative power/IQ.  

Of course, Superior intelligence and its correlation with using thugs have never been adequately studied. Any conclusion  for or against is nothing , but mere conjecture

Or is it linked with being occultic; visiting one shrine or the other? I doubt you truly know what these people do to get power.

May be. who knows!

Indeed. Let's not derail the thread. But I'm genuinely curious to hear how the answer to Nigeria's problems are not fighting corruption, FDI, more liberal regulatory environment, investment in infrastructure, etc. But instead to "liberate" the Igboman.

Perhaps this is worth discussing elsewhere, lol

ndu_chucks:

@Sapeleguy & Katsumoto, I submit to you people that the said powerful and rulers are Nigerians just like you and are probably of superior intellect than most of you. These people are a reflection of you – why do you continue to allow them to constantly beat you into submission while you respond with internet warriorship or outright escape out of the country?? You guys sound brilliant enough to seize power from them! Don’t give me the old story – they have the money/big guns e.t.c.  Tunisia has taken that argument away from you.

It is a process bro, I see Nigeria moving to that level in the next few decades. Much faster If we get a benevolent, Ideological group of leaders.

One, Nigerians in the diaspora will probably become suffocated by the changing fortunes in the west and look more towards home, like Chinese and Indian professionals, I see them demanding and struggling for a greater share of the political and economic pie and in the process naturally drive changes. Unlike the diaspora generation of the 70's,  their number, the availability of instant information and the reduced opportunities in the west will be a major factor.

More importantly, I see a generation of Nigerians home and abroad, (mostly home based) influenced by a totally different ideology acquired from the more open interaction they are currently having with a more global, much smaller world. These Nigerians, because they are not as connected to the old oppressive feudal allegiances encouraged by our culture as their parents were, will drive the greatest amount of change in Nigeria.

I'm not sure the country will survive these changes as it's currently structured, I'm not even sure it will be called Nigeria. But, I see hope for change based on some of the points above

My worry is that we will enter into a period of cultural deficit, I will prefer we avoid that by getting a cultural revolution like they got in China but I fail to see how that will happen with the kind of ethnic mistrust I see in Nigeria.

But, I will take the more modest, less violent, Economic/Subtle ideological revolution over what we currently have and I do see it coming soon.

fstranger1:

Absolutely.
It is one thing to be able to pay the thugs to do your bidding, it is another thing entirely to have them do it exactly how you want.  Make no mistake about think, not all thugs get paid to do what they do. Some thugs do what they do  because they believe in the message/person of the hirer. Most of the thugs working for Omisore don't get paid. This I know first hand.

More insight into fstranger1's sinister past!

Kilode?! ndu_chucks is only playing devils advocate so take his comments with a liberal pinch of garri.

I wouldn't hold my breath for any subtle reorientation in our political ideology. Our politics nah gboza gboza gboza, I don't see it changing anytime soon, at least not subtlely.

The issue of a political ideology is a whole new thread. One party has an umbrella, the other has a broom The ease with which politicians cross carpet enmasse beggars belief. Have they really changed their ideology or are they chasing the money?

eku_bear:

More insight into fstranger1's sinister past!

You're on your own, bro.

Kilode?!:

It is a process bro, I see Nigeria moving to that level in the next few decades. Much faster If we get a benevolent, Ideological group of leaders.

One, Nigerians in the diaspora will probably become suffocated by the changing fortunes in the west and look more towards home, like Chinese and Indian professionals, I see them demanding and struggling for a greater share of the political and economic pie and in the process naturally drive changes. Unlike the diaspora generation of the 70's,  their number, the availability of instant information and the reduced opportunities in the west will be a major factor.

I like this man.

People have come up with every sort of answer, but are olivious to the one question (whats the cause) their answers throw up. I'll illustrate:

Nigerian leaders come from the people, so how can they be different? - Sorry, thats an effect, what is the cause?
People are corrupt because they don't care - Sorry, thats an effect, what is the cause?
Corruption thrives because there is no punishment - Sorry, thats an effect, what is the cause?
The average Nigerian cannot bring themselves to walk the Tunisian path - Sorry, thats an effect, what is the cause?
There is rampant corruption because we have bad leaders - Sorry, thats an effect, what is the cause?

The answer to the recurring "Sorry, thats an effect, what is the cause?" gives the true reason we have corruption as well as the true reason we have failed to develop so far. Lets look for root causes rather than symtoms; the oyibo man was 100% correct in his assessment that corruption isn't the reason Nigeria is not developing.

fstranger1:

Absolutely.
It is one thing to be able to pay the thugs to do your bidding, it is another thing entirely to have them do it exactly how you want.  Make no mistake about think, not all thugs get paid to do what they do. Some thugs do what they do  because they believe in the message/person of the hirer. Most of the thugs working for Omisore don't get paid. This I know first hand. Omisore has a way with words and has a way of getting people to do his bidding. Same thing with Bola Ige, you and I know that Bola Ige was one of the smartest Nigerians ever. His close associates dont call him'Cicero' for nothing. He does not have to pay to get people to do what he wants, good or bad; he simply needs to use his creative brain power to move people to action. The ability to hire thugs to do your bidding can be likened to the ability of other influential world personalities like Obama, Gandhi and Clinton, and Mandela to move people through soaring rhetoric and  appealing rhythms. Many psychologists agree that oratory skills and  ability to move and influence people are indicative of one's creative power/IQ.  

Of course, Superior intelligence and its correlation with using thugs have never been adequately studied. Any conclusion  for or against is nothing , but mere conjecture

They say a little knowledge is dangerous. It is clear that these people have read Niccolo Machavelli's 'The Prince' repeatedly. When will these 'superior intellects' realise that this type of thuggery is unprogressive and retrogressive. What ever happened to Ethics, Morality  & Integrity. On second thoughts don't answer

Beaf:

People have come up with every sort of answer, but are olivious to the one question (whats the cause) their answers throw up. I'll illustrate:

Nigerian leaders come from the people, so how can they be different? - Sorry, thats an effect, what is the cause?
People are corrupt because they don't care - Sorry, thats an effect, what is the cause?
Corruption thrives because there is no punishment - Sorry, thats an effect, what is the cause?
The average Nigerian cannot bring themselves to walk the Tunisian path - Sorry, thats an effect, what is the cause?
There is rampant corruption because we have bad leaders - Sorry, thats an effect, what is the cause?

The answer to the recurring "Sorry, thats an effect, what is the cause?" gives the true reason we have corruption as well as the true reason we have failed to develop so far. Lets look for root causes rather than symtoms; the oyibo man was 100% correct in his assessment that corruption isn't the reason Nigeria is not developing.

well, the cause is greed

lack of believe in nigeria

and lastly, there is still external forces eg western countries

alj-harem:

and lastly, there is still external forces eg western countries  

It depends. Some external forces are manipulative. But the fastest way to build up your country from scratch is to access international capital.

I look at what they've done in Dubai and I'm very envious

Beaf:

People have come up with every sort of answer, but are olivious to the one question (whats the cause) their answers throw up. I'll illustrate:

Nigerian leaders come from the people, so how can they be different? - Sorry, thats an effect, what is the cause?
People are corrupt because they don't care - Sorry, thats an effect, what is the cause?
Corruption thrives because there is no punishment - Sorry, thats an effect, what is the cause?
The average Nigerian cannot bring themselves to walk the Tunisian path - Sorry, thats an effect, what is the cause?
There is rampant corruption because we have bad leaders - Sorry, thats an effect, what is the cause?

The answer to the recurring "Sorry, thats an effect, what is the cause?" gives the true reason we have corruption as well as the true reason we have failed to develop so far. Lets look for root causes rather than symtoms; the oyibo man was 100% correct in his assessment that corruption isn't the reason Nigeria is not developing.

Nigeria is teetering on the brink. I posit that in their hearts they want Nigeria to work but in their heads they know it will not. So they get what they can, whilst they can.

eku_bear:

It depends. Some external forces are manipulative. But the fastest way to build up your country from scratch is to access international capital.

I look at what they've done in Dubai and I'm very envious

no no no dubia and tunkey i think are the only arab countries that support the western world.

can you remember ajaokuta steel mine,,, is it working now

SapeleGuy:

They say a little knowledge is dangerous. It is clear that these people have read Niccolo Machavelli's 'The Prince' repeatedly. When will these 'superior intellects' realise that this type of thuggery is unprogressive and retrogressive. What ever happened to Ethics, Morality  & Integrity. On second thoughts don't answer

You give these guys too much credit; what Machiavelli did these guys read? If they did, they would understand that there is usually a reaction to every action whether good or bad. I think a lot of people do not really understand Machiavelli.

Plain and simple, Naija politicians are just thugs.

Katsumoto:

You give these guys too much credit; what Machiavelli did these guys read? If they did, they would understand that there is usually a reaction to every action whether good or bad. I think a lot of people do not really understand Machiavelli.

Plain and simple, Naija politicians are just thugs.

no katsumoto they are not just thugs, they are very clever and calculative people. Trust me on that.

Katsumoto:

You give these guys too much credit; what Machiavelli did these guys read? If they did, they would understand that there is usually a reaction to every action whether good or bad. I think a lot of people do not really understand Machiavelli.

Plain and simple, Naija politicians are just thugs.

Never underestimate the opposition. I don't doubt these evil geniuses for one second but in the long run it matters little because they are not a force for good.

alj-harem:

no katsumoto they are not just thugs, they are very clever and calculative people. Trust me on that.

Yes they are very smart and calculative, yet some die in the process while others are unable to return to their positions after elections. The only individual that I can accept as a smart political strategist is OBJ; the rest are ritualists.

Okay. And food is not a fat man's problem. I'm glad we made two developments today.

SapeleGuy:

Kilode?! ndu_chucks is only playing devils advocate so take his comments with a liberal pinch of garri.

I wouldn't hold my breath for any subtle reorientation in our political ideology. Our politics nah gboza gboza gboza, I don't see it changing anytime soon, at least not subtlely.

The issue of a political ideology is a whole new thread. One party has an umbrella, the other has a broom The ease with which politicians cross carpet enmasse beggars belief. Have they really changed their ideology or are they chasing the money?

We cannot escape it bro, It will come like trickling water or like rushing waterfalls, Human history is cyclical, It is coming. It happened in China, It is occurring slowly in India, It happened in Brazil with the leftists taking over,  "When" is what we do not know for sure. But I see it coming.

U guys keep complaining. Dis is what Nigerians do all day expecting someone or a leader out there to do dis and dat. He said lack of 'Determination' and u guys justified it. Dat is no determination to fight corruption, crime, develop our democracy, grow enough food e.t.c. We should just find a way to move forward shikenah. Just get involved in sharing in d determination-during election, at work etc. Determination as d people ondo state voted PDP out using previously unknown Labour Party. As Gov. Aregbesola got his mandate. As Fashola was able to change d face of notorious Oshodi e.t.c.

This Man is just looking for relevance!

If it is not corruption then what is it?

More so, combine all the monies looted from this country from 1978 till date, all these monies should have placed us as developed Nation long before now.

The Solution is to KILL all this looters who have been in office from 1978 till 2011, kill all of them. Nigeria will be great. - nonsense!

Who's this one talking pap?

Corruption is Nigeria's problem.

This is saying the obvious. I told my friend that corruption is not entirely the problem otherwise Russia would not be where they are today

Uproot Tribalism and ethnic divide and half our problems will be solved. Corruption feeds on those two

i think my biggest problem is the lack of opportunities for young people, a country where approximately 60% is below the age of 30years old , with alot of them not in the work force is worrysome, the government can steal all the want but please dunn neglect the young people. They are indeed the future of 2moro. And till they government starts attracting more investment and putting people to work, crime rates will still be high in Nigeria.

Who is Mr Onno to tell us what are problems are? I completely doubt if he lives in Nigeria. Though i see the CAUSES that leads to corruption as our main problem not forgetting ethnicity and religion BUT in all we all share the same suffering which i think if we base our decision to vote in aspirants this 2011 will yield more results than any other.

^--Eh, just fyi:

Onno Ruhl
Country Director
Nigeria

Onno Ruhl, a Dutch national, joined the Bank in 1993. He was appointed Country Director for Nigeria in March 2008. Based in Abuja, Nigeria, in addition to leading the Bank’s dialogue on sustainable growth and development with the Nigerian Government and other stakeholders, Onno oversees operations and economic and sector work in Africa’s most populous nation. Over the last four years, the Nigerian portfolio of projects has more than doubled US$1.2 billion to about US$2.9 billion.

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/COUNTRIES/AFRICAEXT/0,,contentMDK:20246200~menuPK:509503~pagePK:146736~piPK:226340~theSitePK:258644,00.html

This guy is talking of financial/economic corruption, and I don't agree that financial corruption is not a major cause of Nigeria's under-development.

What about other types of corruption like political, religious and social corruptions?,

^^ don't listen to that yeye Dutch man, he's a mole planted in Nigeria by the owners of Nigeria; Royal Dutch Shell and co. He should go and tell his story in holland.

Who is saying that corruption is not the problem? the problem of Nigeria is corruption.

The average Nigerian is self centred and does not care about those around him, or his environment.  Corruption is just another manifestation of this trait. That is why you will see multi million dollar houses in Lekki with dirt tracks for roads.    Our focus is on the individual not the collective.  A friend of mine once said that you are likely to be left in peace if you steal government money in Nigeria, but God help you if you steal money belonging to an individual.   The solution?   Leadership by example.  It is actually the only solution, because of our focus on individuals, not institutions.

Basically our inhibiting problem in nigèria is our leaders.they breed & propagate corruption, dey make it d norms & value of our society(when d unusual becomes usual then d unusual becomes d usual). They lack d political prowess & value 2 saddle d ship of leadership.little wonder our past leaders are murderers, renowed theives, ex-convicts & professors of electoral corruption. So we need 2 address our leadership disease b4 d economic declination ravaging us can be improved upon & accelerated.

D international banks benefit from corruption by lending money to thieves who will end up taking d money back to them