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Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by hoopernikao: 11:50am On Jul 04, 2020 |
Myer: Abraham faith justified by having Isaac? Chairmannnnn. Read the below again from your bible. Roman's 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Counted for righteousness there is the word for justification Sir. Abraham faith is not seen in having Isaac, but Abraham faith is seen in offering Isaac. Check again. Abraham work of faith is the action he took to offer Isaac even when the promise says in his seed shall all nation be blessed. That singular action of his ready to offer that seed (that the promise clinged), yet believing God that he can still fulfil the promise is the work of faith. If Apostle James find you, he will first give you a good knock for reading him wrongly. James work of faith is your actions of faith not result. A brother in need comes to you and all you say is "have faith, God will bless you", That faith must first be demonstrated in you that you trust God. How will you demonstrate that? By releasing the little money on you to support him even though that can create lack on your end. That action is what shows that you truly believe in God as your support and provider. So what James is saying is when you truly trust God, you will walk/work in it by your actions. This is not about result o. When you claim you have faith, your line of actions must align with that. That is how faith is affirmed and seen. That is what Abraham did. For example when you say you trust God for everything, we must see it in your actions. That means when I have any issues my first call and contact is to pray to God (prayer means communicate it with God) not starting up from strategy or connection. Those will be secondary as better direction will come. That action of seeing God first in your challenges is the evidence of your trust and faith in him. You need to get this o, so that your fight with Bro James will be minimal. |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by Myer(m): 1:48pm On Jul 04, 2020 |
hoopernikao: You're beginning to sound like Maximus69, twisting not only scriptures but also people's comments to your own meaning. Now let me reiterate, Abraham's Faith yielded result. This is not in response to Romans 4:3. His Faith in God counting as righteousness is before God, not men. His Faith in God yielding the promises of God viz his children Isaac and Ishmael that would become nations, is the result that justifies his Faith. I don't see the complication in comprehension here. Faith is justified by its works, how is this an issue to argue? I am a Christian, I should bear the fruits of Christ, and manifests the gifts of the Holy spirit. My life should be witness of Christ. That is simply what you're arguing about, you realize that right? |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by Acehart: 3:56pm On Jul 04, 2020 |
Myer: Abraham’s faith was recorded that he believed God and righteousness was imputed to him; what did he believe? He believed in God’s voice - in the promise of His fatherhood of nations. Yet, he doubted: when he ask that his servant become his heir, and when he knew Hagar, and when he laughed at God’s promise a year before his son of promise, Isaac. Isaac means “laugh” or “laugh of doubt”. It is the laughter Sarah had in doubt when the messengers announced Isaac’s arrival; the laughter of doubt Abraham had when at 99 years old, God told him his 90 years wife will soon be pregnant with son (Genesis 17:17). Abraham was not justified by Isaac’s arrival; rather it was God who was justified: so that you may be justified in your words (Psalm 51:4). In James’ exhortation, the works of faith (or the faithful) were his focus; he was not talking about the faith that leads to salvation. Paraphrasing his words, he said: If you have been to the Cross of Christ, you will have to show the evidence that you have been there. Faith has results; if there is no result, then there was no faith - In this I agree with you. If one claims to have faith and there is no result, faith was never established. On the other hand, does result validate faith? If the result doesn’t endure, then it is invalid. (Mark 13:13); If it endures, it is not a validation of one’s faith, rather, it is a validation of God’s character (Psalms 89:38). Looking the results of faith (of Christians In Nigeria and the world) in the short term is deceptive; however, when you view those short term results with the eyes of the scripture, you can tell whether those results will endure till the end. |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by hoopernikao: 4:08pm On Jul 04, 2020 |
Myer: You are actually complicating the scriptures. Result cannot nor will ever validate faith. But since you want us to discuss this well. I can you show me text of scriptures that proved faith is justified by result. I await you. |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by Appleyard(m): 4:56pm On Jul 04, 2020 |
madegreatbygrace: The problem with people is trying to interpret God's word to suit their understanding according to the laws of English.. Why not just take the words as they are and grasp the intent instead of trying to please our understanding in line with lexical construction. |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by Kobojunkie: 4:57pm On Jul 04, 2020 |
Appleyard:Me? |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by Myer(m): 9:53am On Jul 05, 2020 |
hoopernikao: Faith is justified by works. (Results) James 2: 14-26 This is analogous to the verse which says Wisdom is justified by her children. (Results) Matthew 11:19 Luke 7:35 How can you say you are an expert in a field yet you can't perform in that field? I expected this from Maximus69 not you. But like a yoruba a adage aptly put it, "tewe ba pe lara rose aa d'ose." You've been arguing with him so long you're beginning to sound like him. |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by hoopernikao: 9:31pm On Jul 06, 2020 |
Myer: Save yourself from proper beating from Bro James when you meet in the last days, go and read him again and properly. No single place in the bible where faith is justified or preached as justified by results. Does faith has works? Yes, Is the work speaking about result? Not at all. You are speaking from point of view of man in the flesh. Man in Christ as taught by the scriptures, his faith must be driving by work of faith not result. Jesus taught faith as this, when the centurion told him "you don't need to come to my house, just speak your word... ". Jesus called it a great faith, and justified his faith. Why? Is it because he has seen result? No. His walk and work of faith is that act of putting to action what is in his heart. He didn't just believe, his words are his works. DONT COME, JUST SPEAK. Matthew 8:8-13 9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. 10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. This will be contrary to a man who claim I believe, yet still crying that you must come now now or the little girl will die. That is the simplest way I can explain work if faith for you for now. Hebrews 11 taught faith as such: Non of them received the promise. Hebrews 11:39 39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: So none have the result, yet their faith were justified, why? There work/walk if faith is independent of result. I will say this emphatically again, go and read James well to avoid been beaten up by an Apostle |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by hoopernikao: 9:39pm On Jul 06, 2020 |
Myer: I have also given you below NIV translation of James 2 to you. Notice that the word works means deeds. That is actions carried out not results. James 2:13-25 14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. 20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[a]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[b] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead Read it properly. See the example he gave you about Abraham, it's contradictory to what you said earlier. Abraham works/deeds is seen in offering Isaac who is by human mind supposed to be the one to make the promise of God fulfilled. But he chose to kill him even yet believing God is able. Please read to well. Should faith has results? Of cause, that is the reason for faith. But is faith justified by results? Not at all. Is work of faith same as results? Not at all Sir. |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by Kobojunkie: 6:08am On Jul 08, 2020 |
madegreatbygrace:I think you are wrong! madegreatbygrace:Couldn't "Truth" refer here to New Covenant that is Jesus Christ, and "Spirit" refer to the Spirit of God that lives inside of those subscribed to the New Covenant that is Jesus Christ? Here Worship could in fact refer to service / love/ obedience - that which is carried out to please God. Now, to worship God, one needs to have available the Truth(the commandments to the New Covenant that is Jesus Christ who is the Truth of God) and the Spirit of God to lead one through the carrying out of these commandments. Without one or the other, such worship is said to be meaningless/against the Will of God - Unworthy worship/filthy rags so to speak! |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by Kobojunkie: 6:12am On Jul 08, 2020 |
madegreatbygrace:You were saying about the water? It seems water does hold some significance even when Spirit is concerned, don't you think? |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by madegreatbygrace(m): 8:16pm On Jul 08, 2020 |
[ quote author=Kobojunkie post=91494592] This text in Ezekiel still affirms my point. The water in verse 25 is an allegory. The reality is in verses 25 and 26. |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by Kobojunkie: 8:28pm On Jul 08, 2020 |
madegreatbygrace:The water is allegorical? Are you suggesting that the baptisms carried out by John the Baptist, using water mind you, were really unnecessary? |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by madegreatbygrace(m): 10:14pm On Jul 08, 2020 |
quote author=Kobojunkie post=91520057] The water is allegorical? Are you suggesting that the baptisms carried out by John the Baptist, using water mind you, were really unnecessary? Nothing in my post suggests that the baptism of John was unnecessary. Nevertheless, Its significance was to reveal the Messiah to John and then Israel, and also served as a typology of the new birth. |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by Kobojunkie: 11:14pm On Jul 08, 2020 |
madegreatbygrace:so how did you arrive at the water mentioned even in Ezekiel being allegorical? I am trying to get a peak into your mind here is what. |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by madegreatbygrace(m): 12:04am On Jul 09, 2020 |
So how did you arrive at the water mentioned even in Ezekiel being allegorical? I am trying to get a peak into your mind here is what. Whenever you see an impossibility in the Bible, a figure of speech is always intended. As an illustration, consider what Jesus says here: “If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.” Matthew 5:29 NKJV Surely, no one in their right mind will take the Lord's recommendation literally here, for it will be against His character to advise anyone to pluck out their eyes because of sin. So it's an impossible statement. It is an impossible statement, then it must be figurative. Likewise, in Ezekiel 36:25, “Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.” We know that clean water can not cleanse anyone from sin or filthiness; Only the blood of Jesus does that. This is also an impossible statement and so a figure of speech is intended. |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by Kobojunkie: 12:14am On Jul 09, 2020 |
madegreatbygrace:An impossibility in the Bible is a figure of speech? madegreatbygrace:No one? Are you serious about that? I remember reading of monks inflicting such punishments on themselves back during the dark ages of the Church mind you. Of course, there were those who chose flagellation over self-mutilation madegreatbygrace:Really? So then it makes sense to conclude that what John the Baptist did was meaningless? Remember, He preached repentance and the Baptism was a sign of that repentance- a cleansing of sorts from sin and filthyness |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by madegreatbygrace(m): 12:24am On Jul 09, 2020 |
[quote author=Kobojunkie post=91525894] An impossibility in the Bible is a figure of speech? No one? Are you serious about that? I remember reading of monks inflicting such punishments on themselves back during the dark ages of the Church mind you. Of course, there were those who choose flagellation over mutilation Really? So then it makes sense to conclude that what John the Baptist did was meaningless? Remember, He preached repentance and the Baptism was a sign of that repentance- a cleansing of sorts from sin and filthyness Just listen to yourself. Is Jesus Christ a monk? |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by Kobojunkie: 12:28am On Jul 09, 2020 |
madegreatbygrace:His commandments are for all those who choose to become His followers, is that not correct? And the catholic monks were said to be Jesus Christ's followers. So? What you think is impossible is not truly impossible as there is documentation to suggest that many in fact believed He was being literal. I believe He was being literal as well... |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by madegreatbygrace(m): 11:15am On May 30, 2021 |
“And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.” 1 Peter 3:21 NLT Water baptism is a picture of immersion into the body of Christ. It’s baptism into this body that saves a man. Water baptism doesn’t save, nor does it change our standing or position in Christ. It was practiced so as to teach sense ruled individuals the significance of the new birth. |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by Kobojunkie: 5:47pm On May 30, 2021 |
madegreatbygrace:Not according to God, it is not ! Again, Ezekiel 36 vs 24 - 28 reveals that there is a separation between being born of water and being born of Spirit, both of them part of the plan. Baptism into this body happens when you are physically born... and this according to Jesus Christ in John 3 vs 1 - 21, and there is no Salvation attached to being born in this body. According to John the Baptist, water baptism is required as a mark revealing one has changed heart and life in obedience to the commandments of God . Matthew 3 vs 7- 11. Your claim that water baptism is done to teach individuals the significance of new birth makes no meaning at all. |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by madegreatbygrace(m): 6:57pm On May 30, 2021 |
quote author=Kobojunkie post=102202983] Not according to God, it is not ! Again, Ezekiel 36 vs 24 - 28 reveals that there is a separation between being born of water and being born of Spirit, both of them part of the plan.Normally I wouldn’t reply to you. The problem with you is that you think you know and to be candid, you know nothing. I usually avoid people like you on NL because there’s nothing meaningful or edifying in your post. What’s more, your insincerity is incomparable. You believe in the teachings of John the Baptist yet you don’t believe in the teachings of Paul. Such hypocrisy! I’ll advise you leave NL for a while. Take a long break, read the Bible from Genesis to revelation so as to receive a lot of revelations. You have so much to learn , but you can only receive with a humble heart. |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by Kobojunkie: 7:01pm On May 30, 2021 |
madegreatbygrace:I believe in teachings Backed by the Word of God - that which is attributed to God Himself. And it happens that in this case, what John the Baptist taught is Backed by God's Word in Ezekiel 36 and by Jesus Christ's own teachings - Repent for the Kingdom of God is here and be baptized. This isn't rocket science people..... Again... Kobojunkie: |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by madegreatbygrace(m): 7:43pm On May 30, 2021 |
[/quote][quote]quote author=Kobojunkie post=102205349] I believe in teachings Backed by the Word of God - that which is attributed to God Himself. And it happens that in this case, what John the Baptist taught is Backed by God's Word in Ezekiel 36 and by Jesus Christ's own teachings - Repent for the Kingdom of God is here and be baptized. This isn't rocket science people..... Can you see you’re a juvenile when it comes to Bible interpretation? Who was Jesus talking to when He said repent and be baptized ? |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by Kobojunkie: 8:13pm On May 30, 2021 |
madegreatbygrace:Where do you get this notion that you need to interpret that which is presented you in human language ? All you need is basic comprehension skills...same skills you would use in understanding every day spoken language. It does not matter here who Jesus Christ when He called for them to repent and be baptized was speaking to, what matters is that Jesus Christ corroborated John the Baptists message that we repent and be baptized of water. |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by madegreatbygrace(m): 10:00pm On May 30, 2021 |
quote author=Kobojunkie post=102207425] Where do you get this notion that you need to interpret that which is presented you in human language ? All you need is basic comprehension skills...same skills you would use in understanding every day spoken language. I can now see that you’re a Bible illiterate. The Bible addresses three groups of people. 1. Unbelievers 2. Jews 3. The church Therefore, what is applicable to the church may not be applicable to the Jews, and what is applicable to unbelievers may not be applicable to the Church. This is a fundamental law of Bible interpretation. If you don’t understand basic principles, how then will you understand the mystery of Christ. It does not matter? It does matter whom Christ Jesus is speaking to. |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by madegreatbygrace(m): 10:04pm On May 30, 2021 |
quote author=Kobojunkie post=102207425 Who are the “ we “ ? |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by Kobojunkie: 10:32pm On May 30, 2021 |
madegreatbygrace:Sure I may be an illiterate, but I at least know one thing that you don't seem to realize and that being that Jesus Christ's teachings is addressed to one group and one group alone.... His only Church. All other churches and groups you form for yourselves are not considered. Jesus Christ , God's Law, is an agreement between God and individuals, and according to His teachings, the very same laws apply to all who belong to Him regardless of status, race, creed, gender, age, etc... in His Kingdom, there exists no such divisions. Your so-called fundamental laws of "Bible interpretation" apply only to those who adopt the doctrines and traditions of men in place of the Truth of God as revealed by Jesus Christ. If you didn't even know that to begin with, what is the meaning of your claim to be of God? |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by Kobojunkie: 10:34pm On May 30, 2021 |
madegreatbygrace:I am not certain where that comes from. Is that a typo of some sort? |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by madegreatbygrace(m): 3:31am On May 31, 2021 |
quote author=Kobojunkie post=102211189] Sure I may be an illiterate, but I at least know one thing that you don't seem to realize and that being that Jesus Christ's teachings is addressed to one group and one group alone.... His only Church. All other churches and groups you form for yourselves are not considered. You’re not worth my precious time. |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by Kobojunkie: 3:44am On May 31, 2021 |
madegreatbygrace:Well, this is not a question of "worth" for me. You see, I am simply carrying out my duty as a follower of Jesus Christ, which is to speak His Truth no matter what. |
Re: Born Of Water And The Spirit And The "Kai" Connection by madegreatbygrace(m): 6:41pm On Jun 02, 2021 |
quote author=Kobojunkie post=W102214201] Well, this is not a question of "worth" for me. You see, I am simply carrying out my duty as a follower of Jesus Christ, which is to speak His Truth no matter what. His truth |
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