Of course there will be multiple registrations when some of those corpers handling the registration already claimed they registered some people without their bio-data.

The system should not have been programmed to allow that, and if the data is not centralized, then people can move from ward to ward voting in all the places they registered.

Too bad. In 2011 we still cannot handle a simple exercise of registering voters after spending Billions. And few years from now another INEC chairman will be asking for another billions of Naira for a new exercise.

Kobojunkie:

I am not a fan of the man myself but that does not mean the contents of the article are to be ignored or that he is wrong as a result. Note, ACN is challenging INEC here. INEC can either accept the challenge or pretend the data is clean.

What challenge? The man has no proof, no evidence, nothing at all to indicate that INEC's claims are false. If the man had asked for a demonstration, that's one thing. but it is very mean-spirited, very terrible to make an unsubstantiated accusation of corruption, falsehood and ineptitude just to get someone to demonstrate his claims.
I cannot understand why you do not see this.

Kobojunkie:


Like I already tried explaining, Database DO NOT offer automatic data integrity. The data in a Database is just as good as data entered and so there are high chances in this case that INEC will have to get into some serious data cleaning exercises. I read both and I believe there will definitely need to be some scrubbing of the data collected at the end of the day.

The data in the database consists of the voters names, occupation, sex, address etc, paired with the voters photo, as well as the individual's ten fingerprints. The data captured is stored simultaneously on the Laptop's internal HDD as well as an external hard disk for redundancy. The data is stored in an encrypted format and the Corps members manning the booth cannot alter or edit any record as soon as it is entered.
So please, tell me why you envisage serious data scrubbing at the end of the day.

Kobojunkie:


Considering people can travel and do travel. It is not far-fetched to believe some people probably registered in different states already. But again, one does not have to travel to another state to register more than once. According to some, it is already possible to do that in the same registration zone. So, aggregating data at ward level and so on, DOES NOT GUARANTEE integrity.

Nobody is going to register in different states. There's a restriction of movement during elections. Why would someone want to vote in Ekiti and then vote in Osun?
Obviously, INEC's systems are not networked at registration time, and there can be no real-time multiple registration detection going on. This is an acceptable limitation. I never expected otherwise. So naturally anyone can register in 30 different pollling units in the state.
However, when the data is aggregated, the checks for multiple registrations can easily done at the macro and micro levels. Since most multiple registration attempts will take place at the ward level, the checks will be done on datasets containing records numbering in the tens of thousands (on average). these small scale checks will weed out at least 80 - 90% of multiple registration attempts.
At the state level the checks will also be made. Even in a densely populated state like Lagos you're looking at not more than 4 million records (at most). With powerful backend technology in place, these checks can be done in a week.

A friend of mine has been to INEC's control room in Abuja, and he's come away impressed. Lots of young, brilliant geeks at work behind the scene. i remain cautiously optimistic.


As far as the topic goes, Lai Mohammed is just trolling. and he's a dolt.

texazzpete:

What challenge? The man has no proof, no evidence, nothing at all to indicate that INEC's claims are false. If the man had asked for a demonstration, that's one thing. but it is very mean-spirited, very terrible to make an unsubstantiated accusation of corruption, falsehood and ineptitude just to get someone to demonstrate his claims.
I cannot understand why you do not see this.


The data in the database consists of the voters names, occupation, sex, address etc, paired with the voters photo, as well as the individual's ten fingerprints. The data captured is stored simultaneously on the Laptop's internal HDD as well as an external hard disk for redundancy. The data is stored in an encrypted format and the Corps members manning the booth cannot alter or edit any record as soon as it is entered.
So please, tell me why you envisage serious data scrubbing at the end of the day.


Nobody is going to register in different states. There's a restriction of movement during elections. Why would someone want to vote in Ekiti and then vote in Osun?
Obviously, INEC's systems are not networked at registration time, and there can be no real-time multiple registration detection going on. This is an acceptable limitation. I never expected otherwise. So naturally anyone can register in 30 different pollling units in the state.
However, when the data is aggregated, the checks for multiple registrations can easily done at the macro and micro levels. Since most multiple registration attempts will take place at the ward level, the checks will be done on datasets containing records numbering in the tens of thousands (on average). these small scale checks will weed out at least 80 - 90% of multiple registration attempts.
At the state level the checks will also be made. Even in a densely populated state like Lagos you're looking at not more than 4 million records (at most). With powerful backend technology in place, these checks can be done in a week.

A friend of mine has been to INEC's control room in Abuja, and he's come away impressed. Lots of young, brilliant geeks at work behind the scene. i remain cautiously optimistic.

As far as the topic goes, Lai Mohammed is just trolling. and he's a dolt.

There is no point going over this again with you. I am glad you choose to be optimistic and that is good for you . From my angle, I prefer we work to get it right NOW, and if raising these questions and objections now, causes INEC to take a closer look at how it has approached this so far and maybe forces it to do better now, I am all for it. We do not have ~600 million to do this every other election.

OAM4J:

[size=13pt]Of course there will be multiple registrations when some of those corpers handling the registration already claimed they registered some people without their bio-data.
[/size]
The system should not have been programmed to allow that, and if the data is not centralized, then people can move from ward to ward voting in all the places they registered.

That is what I have heard as well.

violent:

I have always known that those expensive fake Chinese products in the hands of incompetent youth corpers would be the sole driver of a massively rigged electoral process.

Hurray!

dont u dare call corpers incompetent, because not all of them are, if u dont know what to say take a long nap, copy?

@kobojunkie, how can you said the man has no prove when he is challenging inec to a contest? Dont tell me he needs to provide prove before inec takes him serious since he is not a computer specialist, as a major contender in the election the party have the right to challenge inec to prove that they can detect multiple registration. Inec is using public funds for this registration and is therefore accountable to the Public.

Inec can and will detect  multiple registration at the central level if need be.However it will be a really lengthy process as someone said comparing ten points finger print identification and facial reconition  for sixty million people and discriminating  matches is a job for some really serious servers.I had tought that  the data fusion and verification aspect would have taken place BEFORE the cards were distributed .jacking the DDC units(seriously all 120000 of them) to a network via some radio or phone lines would have been a way too expensive near impossible task.
In the long run i guess there wil still be somesort of public voters registere displayed after the exersice in which any and all multiple registrations will be anotated as in red listed or blacklisted meaning they wouldnt be eligible to vote with any of those identities.I expect that process to knock out some 5-8 if not 10 million names off the valid voters list, Then you will hear ACN come out with their LOUDMOUTHS claiming that"INEC is trying to deprive their members of the right tn vote ".I dispise that party no lie is benneath them.

OAM4J:

Of course there will be multiple registrations when some of those corpers handling the registration already claimed they registered some people without their bio-data.

The system should not have been programmed to allow that, and if the data is not centralized, then people can move from ward to ward voting in all the places they registered.

Too bad. In 2011 we still cannot handle a simple exercise of registering voters after spending Billions. And few years from now another INEC chairman will be asking for another billions of Naira for a new exercise.

Kobojunkie:

That is what I have heard as well.

How do we prove that.

Even  JAMB registration will not allow final submission of data without finger print.

Maybe they are talking about the

OAM4J:

Of course there will be multiple registrations when some of those corpers handling the registration already claimed they registered some people without their bio-data.

The system should not have been programmed to allow that, and if the data is not centralized, then people can move from ward to ward voting in all the places they registered.

Too bad. In 2011 we still cannot handle a simple exercise of registering voters after spending Billions. And few years from now another INEC chairman will be asking for another billions of Naira for a new exercise.

The INEC rep has already told you their strategy is to aggregate the data centrally, with the integrity checks starting from the ward to the LGA to the State level. What other definition of 'centralized' is there?

seanet03:

@kobojunkie, how can you said the man has no prove when he is challenging inec to a contest? Dont tell me he needs to provide prove before inec takes him serious since he is not a computer specialist, as a major contender in the election the party have the right to challenge inec to prove that they can detect multiple registration. Inec is using public funds for this registration and is therefore accountable to the Public.

The man has no proof! Isn't it evident in the article?
The man isn't asking INEC to demonstrate the database checks. He is accusing INEC of fraud and of deliberately deceiving Nigerians. Why does he have to malign INEC? Is it so hard to request that party agents be present when database aggregation and verification is being done?

I do not want INEC to get distracted by this fellow's crazed rantings. My tax money is at stake.

Secondly, isn't is foolish to raise this issue now? if the ACN had any complaints about the technology INEC was to use for the registration why did they not make those complaints known before the exercise started? The registration train has left that station, sorry. There are challenges, but it will suffice!

onye_ngbu:

How do we prove that.

Even  JAMB registration will not allow final submission of data without finger print.

Maybe they are talking about the

What?

Kobojunkie:

That is what I have heard as well.

isolated cases, very few instances. The corpers that resorted to doing that (out of frustration) have been reprimanded.
We cannot achieve perfection in Nigeria. Jega looks well on his way to delivering a relatively credible voters register. At least miles better than Iwu's version.

texazzpete:

isolated cases, very few instances. The corpers that resorted to doing that (out of frustration) have been reprimanded.
We cannot achieve perfection in Nigeria. Jega looks well on his way to delivering a relatively credible voters register. At least miles better than Iwu's version.

hmm . .

Like I said  . .  . .

Kobojunkie:

There is no point going over this again with you. I am glad you choose to be optimistic and that is good for you . From my angle, I prefer we work to get it right NOW, and if raising these questions and objections now, causes INEC to take a closer look at how it has approached this so far and maybe forces it to do better now, I am all for it. We do not have ~$600 million to do this every other election.

Kobojunkie:

hmm . .

Like I said  . .  . .

The process is nearing completion. There is no way INEC can reverse or change the fundamental decisions taken. The technology cannot change, the logistics can't change. The train has already left the station. INEC has to use these complaints and issues as learning points for the next time voters registration comes around.

texazzpete:

The process is nearing completion. There is no way INEC can reverse or change the fundamental decisions taken. The technology cannot change, the logistics can't change. The train has already left the station. INEC has to use these complaints and issues as learning points for the next time voters registration comes around.

Thank you for the information, Mr INEC spokesperson!

But again, I choose to believe that INEC knows that even now, it can make changes to ensure better data integrity, and in the end, IMPROVE on it's processing of the data, even now.

What are we arguing here?

Let me follow this systematically:


1) At Registration level, INEC cannot detect multiple registration. They said that they will do it at the ward level.
I can understand the reason behind it. That will make it easy for the database to perform faster and as well maintain its integrity. This is what programmers or IT people called Modular structure which is the best way to handle a complex problem like Voter's registeration.

That means:
Any multiple registration that is not detected at the ward level will be detected at the LGA level and anyone that is not detected at the LGA level will be detected at the state level and anyone that is  not detected at the state level will be detected at the national level in Abuja. If INEC has this system in place, then we have nothing to fear.

I think the question that we should be asking is that: does INEC have this system in place?
And I want us to know that if INEC have this system in place, they cannot allow people access to it because it will be compromised.

The system is not real time and so, the synchronization of the system at various levels will eliminate multiple registration. For the systems to be online real time, each DDC machine has to connect to the internet and will be hosted somewhere. Which means each LGA will have a VSAT and a base station to broadcast the intenet on a secured lines for the DDC machine to connect to it. You can see that there is no time for INEC to do this and also, it involves a lot of money.

INEC will not open up their systems for ACN or anybody to prove that they have the system in place to checkmate multiple registeration. They can only tell you verbally that they have it in place. On the other hand, ACN did well, because this will make INEC to sit up and tell us if they have all this in place.

Enough said!!!

@ texazzpetd,gagalicious
I agree with evethingyou have said.inec could never have undertaken  a real time simultaneous registration which would have flagged any multiple registrations at the registration point. it is just prohibitively expensive so as texaz said the limitation on the system is acceptable.
I am a  data center design proffesional  and solutions architect in my firm(dont ask). we were approached by inec with enquries about that capabilty but when they heard the possible price estimate they understandably dropped it.we are currently undertaking some serious upgrades to inecs datacenter and it is turning out to be one hell of a datacenter and i should know i have been to and participated in the design and build of  more than 50% of the best data centes in west africa(ecobank ghana, stanbic ibtc,fcnb and a whole lot of others).the wanted IBM p595 servers but when they saw the price tag (about 1 mil dollers shiping installation and setup they pooped)
Eighty million buys u a lot of what u need but it dosnt give u alk what u want.

Its a Jonzing world o Let's watch how this plays out

http://www.spotlightnigeria.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=305:ddc-machines-can-detect-multiple-registrations-jega&catid=34:politics&Itemid=55

Jega confirms that multiple registration will be weeded out.

goldincome:

What are we arguing here?

Let me follow this systematically:


1) At Registration level, INEC cannot detect multiple registration. They said that they will do it at the ward level.
I can understand the reason behind it. That will make it easy for the database to perform faster and as well maintain its integrity. This is what programmers or IT people called Modular structure which is the best way to handle a complex problem like Voter's registeration.

That means:
Any multiple registration that is not detected at the ward level will be detected at the LGA level and anyone that is not detected at the LGA level will be detected at the state level and anyone that is  not detected at the state level will be detected at the national level in Abuja. If INEC has this system in place, then we have nothing to fear.

I think the question that we should be asking is that: does INEC have this system in place?
And I want us to know that if INEC have this system in place, they cannot allow people access to it because it will be compromised.

The system is not real time and so, the synchronization of the system at various levels will eliminate multiple registration. For the systems to be online real time, each DDC machine has to connect to the internet and will be hosted somewhere. Which means each LGA will have a VSAT and a base station to broadcast the intenet on a secured lines for the DDC machine to connect to it. You can see that there is no time for INEC to do this and also, it involves a lot of money.

INEC will not open up their systems for ACN or anybody to prove that they have the system in place to checkmate multiple registeration. They can only tell you verbally that they have it in place. On the other hand, ACN did well, because this will make INEC to sit up and tell us if they have all this in place.

Enough said!!!

GBAM!!

Kobo we're still waiting for you to prove that ure not an Hermaphro*dite! Lol

^^^^

Is that you contribution to the thread?

Anyway, me i dey wait for her, or na him, to go do something, instead of yarning opata for WWW

EMANY 01:

@ texazzpetd,gagalicious
I agree with evethingyou have said.inec could never have undertaken  a real time simultaneous registration which would have flagged any multiple registrations at the registration point. it is just prohibitively expensive so as texaz said the limitation on the system is acceptable.
I am a  data center design proffesional  and solutions architect in my firm(dont ask). we were approached by inec with enquries about that capabilty but when they heard the possible price estimate they understandably dropped it.we are currently undertaking some serious upgrades to inecs datacenter and it is turning out to be one hell of a datacenter and i should know i have been to and participated in the design and build of  more than 50% of the best data centes in west africa(ecobank ghana, stanbic ibtc,fcnb and a whole lot of others).the wanted IBM p595 servers but when they saw the price tag (about 1 mil dollers shiping installation and setup they pooped)
Eighty million buys u a lot of what u need but it dosnt give u alk what u want.

i belive if u learn a hard lesson, you'll never repeat a hard mistake!!
Inec has d burden of proof! Let dem Proof us wrong!!

I wonder how the ACN detected this this, they must have probably been registratiing more than once.

texazzpete:

http://www.spotlightnigeria.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=305:ddc-machines-can-detect-multiple-registrations-jega&catid=34:politics&Itemid=55

Jega confirms that multiple registration will be weeded out.

GBAM!!

Let me get this one right. The post you are GBAM-ing proclaims validity of the fears, and even goes on to state that ACN did well, as it is a good thing for us to ask these questions now, so what have you been ARGUING all this time?

yes u dont have to be an ACN to detect this, I was forced to register in a location far from my home primarily because i needed the voters card before the deadline, and since the carryover queue in my area never ends that was my only option,

so they said i must only vote where i got registered, and i reasoned they dont have any central record or server whatsoever./. so its all distributed in zones,, i cant really vote so far away so i am contemplating registering again if i have the chance in somewhere closer this is my only way out to vote.

Oopss !! sorry
I ment to say 80 billion naira.typin on my mobile is kinda stressfull.
@ iykrichie
I advice you not to bother yourself if you register again you run the risk of automatically excluding yourself (depending on the level of punitive sanctions to be applied) from the entire voters list when data fusion is completed.
On the other hand depending on the proximity or lack of it, with the current registration you will at most be unable to vote at the L G elections ,the state house of assenbly elections and the federal legislative seats.You are still good for the governorship and presidencial though.

it would have helped ACN if they got a couple of egg heads to properly articulate their position, then they would be taken seriously. for now , Mr lai Mohammed will sound like a political spoil sport. His questions are relevant, but it wouldn't so questioned if it had come from experts.

OAM4J:

Of course there will be multiple registrations when some of those corpers handling the registration already claimed they registered some people without their bio-data.

The system should not have been programmed to allow that, and if the data is not centralized, then people can move from ward to ward voting in all the places they registered.

Too bad. In 2011 we still cannot handle a simple exercise of registering voters after spending Billions. And few years from now another INEC chairman will be asking for another billions of Naira for a new exercise.

Basically the developed application of the dba may lack the IF-THEN-ELSE command and this can really pose serious threat as INEC machines won't be able to do anything when there are multiple registrations.

Kobojunkie:

Let me get this one right. The post you are GBAM-ing proclaims validity of the fears, and even goes on to state that ACN did well, as it is a good thing for us to ask these questions now, so what have you been ARGUING all this time?

My bad, i missed out that last part.

goggs:

it would have helped ACN if they got a couple of egg heads to properly articulate their position, then they would be taken seriously. for now , Mr lai Mohammed will sound like a political spoil sport. His questions are relevant, but it wouldn't so questioned if it had come from experts.

Lai Mohammed isn't asking a question. He's making an accusation. It's silly.

A question will be : "Can you clarify your sexual orientation? I haven't seen you with any woman"
An accusation, Lai Mohammed style, is like: "You liar! You're a gay gay buttmuncher!!! Okay if you say i'm wrong go and start romancing a woman let us see"

ACN is allowed to seek reassurance from INEC that multiple registrations will be detected and dealt with. it is odious to come out swinging!

PS: Why does ACN want to pretend that multiple registration is something that will benefit only the PDP?

texazzpete:

My bad, i missed out that last part.

Lai Mohammed isn't asking a question. He's making an accusation. It's silly.

A question will be : "Can you clarify your sexual orientation? I haven't seen you with any woman"
An accusation, Lai Mohammed style, is like: "You liar! You're a gay gay buttmuncher!!! Okay if you say i'm wrong go and start romancing a woman let us see"

me tinks the second approach is more effective

detecting multiple registration isn't rocket science, they are several approaches to this, the fastest approach will be real time data verification however this would prove to be most expensive and also could be the slowest if you consider bandwidth, the number of people that need to be registered in a single day, et al.
the approach chosen/stated by INEC is rather methodological and involves sifting data from a defined level to another which makes sense if properly implemented.

iykrichie:

yes u dont have to be an ACN to detect this,  I was forced to register in a location far from my home primarily because i needed the voters card before the deadline,  and since the carryover queue in my area never ends that was my only option,

so they said i must only vote where i got registered,  and i reasoned they dont have any central record or server whatsoever./. so its all distributed in zones,,  i cant really vote so far away so i am contemplating registering again if i have the chance in somewhere closer this is my only way out to vote.

Sorry to say this, but you don't sound particularly intelligent at all. It had been drummed into our ears for eons now; you can only vote where you register. Knowing this, why would you still go and register far away from your home?
I spent 8 hours on the queue to register. I could have spent 10 minutes if i had gone to my office to register. but this isn't just about getting the voters card, it's about VOTING!

Based on Jega's statements, if you register again your name will be struck out. That is how it is.

snthesis:

me tinks the second approach is more effective

I hope you aren't pursuing a career in the diplomatic corps