LLMG:
no its the life of does who don't know how to mind their own business, those who all they know how to do is find fault in others while they themselves are full of faults.

Mitchewwww

Enough reason to call someone bastard.

You are really a slave

All you care about is defending your master

Not your own Christian life

I keep praying for you.

no I am not a slave at all but people like you who entangle yourself with thing that has nothing to do with you are the real slaves.

sapientia:


Mitchewwww

Enough reason to call someone bastard.

You are really a slave

All you care about is defending your master

Not your own Christian life

I keep praying for you.

nextstep:


Perfect reply from a "child of Christ". Do you really think Jesus would approve of what you said just now?

And where is this feeling and name calling coming from? A random person on the Internet said he disagreed with a pastor's choice of words, using scripture to buttress his point. And all you can come up with is name calling. Please try better.

I repeat, shut up! Take your mouth out of our family meeting!

WILLuKPquiet:




What are you, 5?

See English.

You're mildly educated, so of course it goes way over your insipid head

BotherMleeper:


You're mildly educated, so of course it goes way over your insipid head

You are amusing.

Thumb up. I am enjoying display of m-d-ess.

Fill in the gap.

Christ came for all and not for a particular section of the populace

Kobojunkie:
Wrong! Jesus Christ is not our Father that we need to refer to as the Father. According to Jesus Christ, He is the Son and He does the Will of the Father. He spoke the words of the Father too since He is the Truth of God/the Word of God.

Jesus Christ commanded His followers not to be called Rabbi/Teacher/Master etc. because He and He alone is our ONLY teacher. He is our ONLY leader

Jesus Christ also warned His followers against calling anyone on earth Father because We all have one Father and He is in Heaven.

Jesus Christ warned His disciples against considering themselves leaders/authorities. He instead said the greatest among them all is the one who is a slave to others.

If the glory for your spiritual life belongs to a man whom you call your spiritual father, then what part of you do you think belongs to Jesus Christ and to His Heavenly father?

Remember God said He wants all of you(Your heart, mind, Body and soul) not whatever is left over after you have given yourself over to your spiritual father, and maybe spiritual mother, and who knows spiritual siblings etc. After all, God is a jealous God and He wants all or nothing.

Becareful of man's doctrines and traditions as they could trip you up there.

It is obvious you are criticizing a straw man of your own making. This is why you have refused to interact with your opponents arguments. All you do is to engage in assertions after assertions without interacting with your opponents arguments.Are you saying that Jesus told us to call our biological fathers, ' boy, girl, this man?'. I just can't understand you. Jesus didn't teach nonsense

A careful examination of the context of Matthew 23 shows that Jesus didn’t intend for his words here to be understood literally. Jesus was criticizing Jewish leaders who love “the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called ‘rabbi’ by men” (Matt. 23:6–7). He was using hyperbole (exaggeration) to show the scribes and Pharisees how sinful and proud they were for not looking humbly to God as the source of all authority and fatherhood and teaching, and instead setting themselves up as the ultimate authorities, father figures, and teachers.

Christ used hyperbole often, for example when he declared, “If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell” (Matt. 5:29, cf. 18:9; Mark 9:47). Christ certainly did not intend this to be applied literally, for otherwise all Christians would be blind amputees! (cf. 1 John 1:8; 1 Tim. 1:15).

Jesus is not forbidding us to call men “fathers” who actually are such—either literally or spiritually. He is warning people against inaccurately attributing fatherhood—or a particular kind or degree of fatherhood—to those who do not have it.

As the apostolic example shows, some individuals genuinely do have a spiritual fatherhood, meaning that they can be referred to as spiritual fathers. The example of his own apostles shows us that.

What must not be done is to confuse their form of spiritual paternity with that of God. Ultimately, God is our supreme protector, provider, and instructor. Correspondingly, it is wrong to view any individual other than God as having these roles.

The New Testament is filled with examples of and references to spiritual father-son and father-child relationships. It is worth quoting some of them here.
Paul regularly referred to Timothy as his child: “Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ” (1 Cor. 4:17); “To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord” (1 Tim. 1:2); “To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord” (2 Tim. 1:2).
He also referred to Timothy as his son: “This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare” (1 Tim 1:18); “You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus” (2 Tim. 2:1); “But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospel” (Phil. 2:22).
Paul also referred to other of his converts in this way: “To Titus, my true child in a common faith: grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior” (Titus 1:4); “I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment” (Philem. 10). None of these men were Paul’s literal sons. Rather, Paul is emphasizing his spiritual fatherhood with them.

Again, Paul said, “I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel” (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

Peter followed the same custom, referring to Mark as his son: “She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings

---

; and so does my son Mark” (1 Pet. 5:13).

The apostles sometimes referred to entire churches under their care as their children. Paul writes, “Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours but you; for children ought not to lay up for their parents, but parents for their children” (2 Cor. 12:14); and, “My little children, with whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you!” (Gal. 4:19).
John said, “My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (1 John 2:1); “No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my children follow the truth” (3 John 4). In fact, John also addresses men in his congregations as “fathers” (1 John 2:13–14).

By referring to these people as their spiritual sons and spiritual children, Peter, Paul, and John imply their own roles as spiritual fathers.The notion of spiritual fatherhood is biblical and historical. Failure to acknowledge this is to acknowledge that the apostles taught heresy which implies that they are in hell fire.

You are simply forcing your ahistoric interpretation on the Bible.

chipower:
It is obvious you are criticizing a straw man of your own making. This is why you have refused to interact with your opponents arguments. All you do is to engage in assertions after assertions without interacting with your opponents arguments.Are you saying that Jesus told us to call our biological fathers, ' boy, girl, this man?'. I just can't understand you. Jesus didn't teach nonsense

A careful examination of the context of Matthew 23 shows that Jesus didn’t intend for his words here to be understood literally. Jesus was criticizing Jewish leaders who love “the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called ‘rabbi’ by men” (Matt. 23:6–7). He was using hyperbole (exaggeration) to show the scribes and Pharisees how sinful and proud they were for not looking humbly to God as the source of all authority and fatherhood and teaching, and instead setting themselves up as the ultimate authorities, father figures, and teachers.

Christ used hyperbole often, for example when he declared, “If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell” (Matt. 5:29, cf. 18:9; Mark 9:47). Christ certainly did not intend this to be applied literally, for otherwise all Christians would be blind amputees! (cf. 1 John 1:8; 1 Tim. 1:15).

So, how do you choose/decide when to take Jesus Christ at His word and when not to take Him at His word, and instead pretend that a "special interpretation" to that which He is saying is needed for you?

Matthew 23 vs 1 - 17 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Then Jesus spoke to the people and to his followers. He said,
2. “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees have the authority to tell you what the Law of Moses says.
3. So you should obey them. Do everything they tell you to do. But their lives are not good examples for you to follow. They tell you to do things, but they don’t do those things themselves.
4. They make strict rules that are hard for people to obey. They try to force others to obey all their rules. But they themselves will not try to follow any of those rules.
5. “The only reason they do what they do is for other people to see them. They make the little Scripture boxes[a] they wear bigger and bigger. And they make the tassels[b] on their prayer clothes long enough for people to notice them.
6. These men love to have the places of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues.
7. They love for people to show respect to them in the marketplaces and to call them ‘Teacher.’
8. “But you must not be called ‘Teacher.’ You are all equal as brothers and sisters. You have only one Teacher.
9. And don’t call anyone on earth ‘Father.’ You have one Father. He is in heaven.
10. And you should not be called ‘Master.’ You have only one Master, the Messiah.
11. Whoever serves you like a servant is the greatest among you.
12. People who think they are better than others will be made humble. But people who humble themselves will be made great.
13. “It will be bad for you teachers of the law and you Pharisees! You are hypocrites! You close the way for people to enter God’s kingdom. You yourselves don’t enter, and you stop those who are trying to enter.
14. [c]
15. “It will be bad for you teachers of the law and you Pharisees! You are hypocrites. You travel across the seas and across different countries to find one person who will follow your ways. When you find that person, you make him worse than you are. And you are so bad that you belong in hell!
16. “It will be bad for you teachers of the law and you Pharisees! You guide the people, but you are blind. You say, ‘If anyone uses the name of the Temple to make a promise, that means nothing. But anyone who uses the gold that is in the Temple to make a promise must keep that promise.’
17. You are blind fools! Can’t you see that the Temple is greater than the gold on it? It’s the Temple that makes the gold holy!

chipower:
Jesus is not forbidding us to call men “fathers” who actually are such—either literally or spiritually. He is warning people against inaccurately attributing fatherhood—or a particular kind or degree of fatherhood—to those who do not have it.

So, when Jesus Christ Himself first told you that you have to hate father, mother, brother, sister, wife, children, etc. to become worthy of being His follower, He was not being literal?

Matthew 10 vs 34-39
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
34. “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace. I came to bring trouble.[h]
35. I have come to make this happen:
‘A son will turn against his father.
A daughter will turn against her mother.
A daughter-in-law will turn against her mother-in-law.
36. Even members of your own family will be your enemies.’
37. “Those who love their father or mother more than they love me are not worthy of me. And those who love their son or daughter more than they love me are not worthy of me.

When Jesus Christ Himself denied His own mother and brothers for the sake of the Gospel, He was not being literal?

Matthew 12 vs 46 - 50 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
46. While Jesus was talking to the people, his mother and brothers stood outside. They wanted to talk to him.
47. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are waiting for you outside. They want to talk to you.”
48. Jesus answered, “Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?”
49. Then he pointed to his followers and said, “See! These people are my mother and my brothers.
50. Yes, anyone who does what my Father in heaven wants is my true brother and sister and mother.”

So, from that you get then that when Jesus says do not call anyman father, He was also not being literal?

Matthew 23 vs 8-12
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8. But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.[c]
9. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.
10. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ.
11. The greatest among you shall be your servant.
12. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Is that how it works ? I am trying to understand how you think here....

Kobojunkie:

So, how do you choose/decide when to take Jesus Christ at His word and when not to take Him at His word, and instead pretend that a "special interpretation" to that which He is saying is needed for you?



So, when Jesus Christ Himself first told you that you have to hate father, mother, brother, sister, wife, children, etc. to become worthy of being His follower, He was not being literal?

When Jesus Christ Himself denied His own mother and brothers for the sake of the Gospel, He was not being literal?

So, from that you get then that when Jesus says do not call anyman father, He was also not being literal?

Is that how it works ? I am trying to understand how you think here....

Your arguments are neither here nor there. You are all over the place.
Again, you have refused to interact with my arguments. Rather you chose to repeat what you have said before.

I gave you ample examples from the Bible where the apostles assumed spiritual fatherhood of other believers.
Pls, interact with these verses and tell us why the apostles were wrong by doing or saying so. It's obvious according to the scriptures that the apostles did what you are criticizing.

The Bible cannot contradict itself. You are teaching contradiction. The apostles could not have misunderstood Jesus by doing exactly the opposite. They are not that foolish.

When Jesus said we must hate our family and ourselves for the sake of the kingdom of God, he was not speaking literally. This is another case of Jesus speaking in hyperbole.

Jesus was simply saying that we must love God above every other thing even ourselves. If you don't love God above every other thing, you can't enter the kingdom of God.

Jesus couldn't not have preached hate because his divine nature is love. Jesus is God, he can't hate. God is immutable. He can't change. One of the components of immutability of God is love. This is why he said we should love and pray for those who persecute us. This why he said we must always forgive. Your interpretation of this is wrong because it contradicts other places in the Bible where Jesus told us to love and forgive. It contradicts the divine nature of God.

Jesus never denied his mother or family rather he utilized the opportunity to assure people that heard the gospel and obeyed it that they too have become part of his family. Mary was a believer so why would Jesus deny her. Jesus was a perfect son to her mother. He knew his duties to her mother, that was why he handed the care of her mother over to John while he was on the cross. You interpretations of scriptures so far doesn't make sense. It's self contradictory.

Whoever that is teaching you that Jesus is a hater must be a false teacher for sure.

Pls, next time focus on the topic which is about calling people father. Some of these Bible verses you cited are irrelevant to the topic. I don't see the connection ,at all.I just decided to give replies to them out of courtesy and because im a little bit worried about how you interpret scriptures.Try and interact with my arguments next time, pls.

chipower:

Your arguments are neither here nor there. You are all over the place.
Again, you have refused to interact with my arguments. Rather you chose to repeat what you have said before.

I was not arguing at all. I was simply asking questions to better understand how your mind works as far as the teachings of Jesus Christ are concerned. That is why I picked the very examples below. Please help by responding to the questions.

1) So, how do you choose/decide when to take Jesus Christ at His word and when not to take Him at His word, and instead pretend that a "special interpretation" to that which He is saying is needed for you?

Matthew 23 vs 1 - 17 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Then Jesus spoke to the people and to his followers. He said,
2. “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees have the authority to tell you what the Law of Moses says.
3. So you should obey them. Do everything they tell you to do. But their lives are not good examples for you to follow. They tell you to do things, but they don’t do those things themselves.
4. They make strict rules that are hard for people to obey. They try to force others to obey all their rules. But they themselves will not try to follow any of those rules.
5. “The only reason they do what they do is for other people to see them. They make the little Scripture boxes[a] they wear bigger and bigger. And they make the tassels[b] on their prayer clothes long enough for people to notice them.
6. These men love to have the places of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues.
7. They love for people to show respect to them in the marketplaces and to call them ‘Teacher.’
8. “But you must not be called ‘Teacher.’ You are all equal as brothers and sisters. You have only one Teacher.
9. And don’t call anyone on earth ‘Father.’ You have one Father. He is in heaven.
10. And you should not be called ‘Master.’ You have only one Master, the Messiah.
11. Whoever serves you like a servant is the greatest among you.
12. People who think they are better than others will be made humble. But people who humble themselves will be made great.
13. “It will be bad for you teachers of the law and you Pharisees! You are hypocrites! You close the way for people to enter God’s kingdom. You yourselves don’t enter, and you stop those who are trying to enter.
14. [c]
15. “It will be bad for you teachers of the law and you Pharisees! You are hypocrites. You travel across the seas and across different countries to find one person who will follow your ways. When you find that person, you make him worse than you are. And you are so bad that you belong in hell!
16. “It will be bad for you teachers of the law and you Pharisees! You guide the people, but you are blind. You say, ‘If anyone uses the name of the Temple to make a promise, that means nothing. But anyone who uses the gold that is in the Temple to make a promise must keep that promise.’
17. You are blind fools! Can’t you see that the Temple is greater than the gold on it? It’s the Temple that makes the gold holy!

chipower:
Jesus is not forbidding us to call men “fathers” who actually are such—either literally or spiritually. He is warning people against inaccurately attributing fatherhood—or a particular kind or degree of fatherhood—to those who do not have it.

2) So, when Jesus Christ Himself first told you that you have to hate father, mother, brother, sister, wife, children, etc. to become worthy of being His follower, He was not being literal?

Matthew 10 vs 34-39
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
34. “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace. I came to bring trouble.[h]
35. I have come to make this happen:
‘A son will turn against his father.
A daughter will turn against her mother.
A daughter-in-law will turn against her mother-in-law.
36. Even members of your own family will be your enemies.’
37. “Those who love their father or mother more than they love me are not worthy of me. And those who love their son or daughter more than they love me are not worthy of me.

3) When Jesus Christ Himself denied His own mother and brothers for the sake of the Gospel, He was not being literal?

Matthew 12 vs 46 - 50 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
46. While Jesus was talking to the people, his mother and brothers stood outside. They wanted to talk to him.
47. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are waiting for you outside. They want to talk to you.”
48. Jesus answered, “Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?”
49. Then he pointed to his followers and said, “See! These people are my mother and my brothers.
50. Yes, anyone who does what my Father in heaven wants is my true brother and sister and mother.”

4) So, from that you get then that when Jesus says do not call anyman father, He was also not being literal?

Matthew 23 vs 8-12
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8. But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.[c]
9. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.
10. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ.
11. The greatest among you shall be your servant.
12. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Is that how it works ? I am trying to understand how you think here....

Kobojunkie:
I was not arguing at all. I was simply asking questions to better understand how your mind works as far as the teachings of Jesus Christ are concerned. That is why I picked the very examples below. Please help by responding to the questions.

1) So, how do you choose/decide when to take Jesus Christ at His word and when not to take Him at His word, and instead pretend that a "special interpretation" to that which He is saying is needed for you?



2) So, when Jesus Christ Himself first told you that you have to hate father, mother, brother, sister, wife, children, etc. to become worthy of being His follower, He was not being literal?

3) When Jesus Christ Himself denied His own mother and brothers for the sake of the Gospel, He was not being literal?

4) So, from that you get then that when Jesus says do not call anyman father, He was also not being literal?

Is that how it works ? I am trying to understand how you think here....

It is uncharitable to label a person a pretender without proof.
Look, if anyone is pretending here, that person is you. You are pretending as if i have not answered your questions by posting this same thing again.

Any person reading this can easily see that i have shown your position to be false by the numerous examples i have given. The numerous examples show that the apostles practiced spiritual fatherhood which is exactly what you are criticizing, yet you pretend that i have not addressed the issue under discussion.

I have shown that Jesus cannot love humans and the same time hate humans.
Somehow you believe that God can hate and same time love human. You believe that God can go against his nature This is the contradiction that your interpretation is facing.
Your reasoning is as follows:
A: the divine nature of God is love.
B: God is the healer
C: God delivers people from death.
D: God advoctes hate.

B and C are in harmony with A. But D cannot be in harmony with A because D contradicts A. All along, this is what your interpretation is all about.
Pls, try and understand basic Christian theology eg nature of God, Bible cannot contradict itself etc.

Jesus cannot tell us to love God and neighbors.( Mark 12:30-31) and at the same time tell us to hate our neighbors. It's only a mad man who will be contradicting himself in such a manner.

With due respect, you talk like a non Christian or someone who is new to Christianity that was why you asked when to choose /decide. If you have been a Christian for a while, by now you should have known that Jesus used a lot parables and figure of speech in his teachings. Whenever you come across such, you look closely in order to get the true meaning such that it doesn't contradict other passages in the Bible.
Pls, from today, you should know that the Bible (word of God) cannot contradict itself. This is the gold standard.

The same passages you are giving literal interpretations are same passages atheist give literal interpretations in order to attack Christianity so as to prove that the Bible is a book filled with contradctions. Atheists love to use such passages to show that Jesus was preaching hate and violence.
Your interpretations of these passages which is the same as that of the atheists are the problem, and not what Jesus said.
Your interpretation is what is creating the contradiction and not the Bible.

As for Jesus denying his mother and brothers, pls can you explain how and where he denied his birth mother and brothers in that passage. As far as im concerned, the only thing jesus did was to declare that people who hear his message and obey them as his mothers and brothers, Once you are a follower of Jesus, you are automatically part of his family. This is what the gospel is all about, God adopting us into his family (Romans 8:14-17) How you saw denial of his birth mother, who was also a believer, is beyond my comprehension.Please, explain. I have done this explanation before.

Your concern should not be on how my mind works, rather, my opinion on the matter should be your concern. How my mind works is not the topic of discussion. The only thing i can do is to tell you my opinion on matter which i believe is what you are asking for.
I have answered your questons before, im just doing repetition.

If you feel that my answers are wrong or inadequate, please show me why and how.
PLS, interact with my answers. Interact with my explanations, PLS. As you can see, i have interacted with your questions, please for the sake of courtesy interact with my answers. That's how a dialogue works.
The following is how a dialogue works :

Teacher: John, you didn't do your assignment, why?
John: sorry, i suffered from malaria.
Teacher: How do I know you are telling the truth.
John: I took a lab test and it confirmed it.
Teacher : Where is the copy of the lab results.?
John: it's with me here, sir.

Allow me to show you how your own dialogue goes. It goes like this :

Teacher: John, you didn't do your assignment, why?
John: sorry, i suffered from malaria.
Teacher: John, you didn't do your assignment, why?
John : i have told you that i suffered from malaria
Teacher: John, you didn't do your assignment, why?

Thanks

chipower:
It is uncharitable to label a person a pretender without proof.
Look, if anyone is pretending here, that person is you. You are pretending as if i have not answered your questions by posting this same thing again.

Opinions you offered, and clarity I requested... Is there anything wrong in that?

chipower:
Any person reading this can easily see that i have shown your position to be false by the numerous examples i have given. The numerous examples show that the apostles practiced spiritual fatherhood which is exactly what you are criticizing, yet you pretend that i have not addressed the issue under discussion.

Wait a second... do you worship the letters of the apostles or do you worship Jesus Christ?

chipower:
I have shown that Jesus cannot love humans and the same time hate humans.

Where did you show this?

chipower:
Somehow you believe that God can hate and same time love human. You believe that God can go against his nature This is the contradiction that your interpretation is facing.
Your reasoning is as follows:
A: the divine nature of God is love.
B: God is the healer
C: God delivers people from death.
D: God advoctes hate.

Somehow I believe that? How so? Cause I don't remember telling you anything about what I believe but what Jesus Christ said - that which is written in the book. If you then think you can wiggle your way into my mind as some sort of mind-reader, you are terrible at it.

chipower:
B and C are in harmony with A. But D cannot be in harmony with A because D contradicts A. All along, this is what your interpretation is all about.
Pls, try and understand basic Christian theology eg nature of God, Bible cannot contradict itself etc.

A and D are not in harmony, and so that means you should find a "special interpretation" that forces A to conform to D and then to B and C?
Am I to understand that this is how you decide what part of Jesus Christ's word to "specially interprete"?

chipower:
Jesus cannot tell us to love God and neighbors.( Mark 12:30-31) and at the same time tell us to hate our neighbors. It's only a mad man who will be contradicting himself in such a manner.

So, Jesus Christ made a mistake when He said He has come to bring a Sword and not Peace?
Jesus Christ made a mistake when He advocated that we instead hate family so we can love Him?
I am trying to follow your reasoning here is what....

chipower:
With due respect, you talk like a non Christian or someone who is new to Christianity that was why you asked when to choose /decide. If you have been a Christian for a while, by now you should have known that Jesus used a lot parables and figure of speech in his teachings. Whenever you come across such, you look closely in order to get the true meaning such that it doesn't contradict other passages in the Bible.

Oh ok! So you admit that when Jesus Christ actually wanted to speak in Parables(i.e. figures of speech) He knew exactly how to present His case... Jesus Christ was Himself aware of language constructs and knew how best to apply them effectively considering His original message was addressed to majority poor and uneducated masses who would have had a hard time telling what apart?

chipower:
Pls, from today, you should know that the Bible (word of God) cannot contradict itself. This is the gold standard.

Gold standard set by God Himself, or by men such as your person?
Since you say that the Bible cannot contradict itself, is that how you arrived at Jesus Christ being mistaken when He professed that He has not come to bring peace but a sword then?

chipower:
The same passages you are giving literal interpretations are same passages atheist give literal interpretations in order to attack Christianity so as to prove that the Bible is a book filled with contradctions. Atheists love to use such passages to show that Jesus was preaching hate and violence.
Your interpretations of these passages which is the same as that of the atheists are the problem, and not what Jesus said.
Your interpretation is what is creating the contradiction and not the Bible.

Is this need to apply "special interpretations" so as to ensure, in your mind, that the 'Bible' does not contradict all so you can defend your chosen belief against atheists or something?
I mean Jesus Christ did say that He has come to bring a sword, and not peace. Why not let His word speak, as-is written, rather than seek ways to corrupt His message before it even reaches your soul?

chipower:
As for Jesus denying his mother and brothers, pls can you explain how and where he denied his birth mother and brothers in that passage. As far as im concerned, the only thing jesus did was to declare that people who hear his message and obey them as his mothers and brothers, Once you are a follower of Jesus, you are automatically part of his family. This is what the gospel is all about, God adopting us into his family (Romans 8:14-17) How you saw denial of his birth mother, who was also a believer, is beyond my comprehension.Please, explain. I have done this explanation before.

The passaged speaks clearly what Jesus Christ Himself did.... in agreement with what He taught. Why pretend it means nothing or is not true? Jesus Christ is the truth of God, remember?

Matthew 12 vs 46 - 50 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
46. While Jesus was talking to the people, his mother and brothers stood outside. They wanted to talk to him.
47. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are waiting for you outside. They want to talk to you.”
48. Jesus answered, “Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?”
49. Then he pointed to his followers and said, “See! These people are my mother and my brothers.
50. Yes, anyone who does what my Father in heaven wants is my true brother and sister and mother.”

chipower:
Your concern should not be on how my mind works, rather, my opinion on the matter should be your concern. How my mind works is not the topic of discussion. The only thing i can do is to tell you my opinion on matter which i believe is what you are asking for.
I have answered your questons before, im just doing repetition.

Your opinion reveals how your mind works by the way. Hence the reason why I chose a specific example so I can better understand it.

Kobojunkie:

Wait a second... do you worship the letters of the apostles or do you worship Jesus Christ?

The more you write, the more you show your ignorance about Christianity. You are not a Christian. You are a Muslim. I know you will deny it. I just want to confirm my suspicion. I was just waiting for you to bring up mathew 10:34 the same way other antagonistic Muslims do and you didn't disappoint.

For your information, a Christian doesn't differentiate between what Jesus said and the writings of the apostles because all of them are words of God. Christians believe that God inspired the apostles to write infalliably. This is why every writing of the apostles is called word of God. None is placed above the other. Whether someone believes it or not is another thing all together. It's a matter of choice.

Your question confirms that you are not a Christian at all. If you are, you should be able to know this simple Christian teaching.

Why are you hiding behind a mask to attack another religion indirectly. There is no need for that. You can always offer your religious beliefs to others without playing games. No need for taquiyya.
All these bible verses are what your type use every time to discredit Jesus and Christianity.

If I had known earlier, i would not have wasted my time. Bye

chipower:
The more you write, the more you show your ignorance about Christianity. You are not a Christian. You are a Muslim. I know you will deny it. I just want to confirm my suspicion. I was just waiting for you to bring up mathew 10:34 the same way other antagonistic Muslims do and you didn't disappoint.

I brought up Matthew 10 a while ago ...

chipower:
Jesus is not forbidding us to call men “fathers” who actually are such—either literally or spiritually. He is warning people against inaccurately attributing fatherhood—or a particular kind or degree of fatherhood—to those who do not have it.

2) So, when Jesus Christ Himself first told you that you have to hate father, mother, brother, sister, wife, children, etc. to become worthy of being His follower, He was not being literal?

Matthew 10 vs 34-39
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34. “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace. I came to bring trouble.[h]
35. I have come to make this happen:
‘A son will turn against his father.
A daughter will turn against her mother.
A daughter-in-law will turn against her mother-in-law.
36. Even members of your own family will be your enemies.’
37. “Those who love their father or mother more than they love me are not worthy of me. And those who love their son or daughter more than they love me are not worthy of me.

3) When Jesus Christ Himself denied His own mother and brothers for the sake of the Gospel, He was not being literal?

Matthew 12 vs 46 - 50 (ERV)
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46. While Jesus was talking to the people, his mother and brothers stood outside. They wanted to talk to him.
47. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are waiting for you outside. They want to talk to you.”
48. Jesus answered, “Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?”
49. Then he pointed to his followers and said, “See! These people are my mother and my brothers.
50. Yes, anyone who does what my Father in heaven wants is my true brother and sister and mother.”

4) So, from that you get then that when Jesus says do not call anyman father, He was also not being literal?

Matthew 23 vs 8-12
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8. But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.[c]
9. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.
10. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ.
11. The greatest among you shall be your servant.
12. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Is that how it works ? I am trying to understand how you think here....

Remember now?

chipower:
For your information, a Christian doesn't differentiate between what Jesus said and the writings of the apostles because all of them are words of God. Christians believe that God inspired the apostles to write infalliably. This is why every writing of the apostles is called word of God. None is placed above the other. Whether someone believes it or not is another thing all together. It's a matter of choice.

ROFLMAO!! Christians may not do that but those who are followers of Jesus Christ know who there ONLY teacher is. The WORD OF GOD refer to Jesus Christ(The way, the TRUTH, and the Life), not to every word in the Bible. That is why when Jesus Christ encountered Satan, He responded by saying " Man shall not live by Bread alone but by EVERY WORD THAT COMES OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD(referring there to Himself).

chipower:
Your question confirms that you are not a Christian at all. If you are, you should be able to know this simple Christian teaching.

My questions confirm that I am not a Christian because they scare you?

chipower:
Why are you hiding behind a mask to attack another religion indirectly. There is no need for that. You can always offer your religious beliefs to others without playing games. No need for taquiyya.

You feel attacked by the questions I have asked you about what is written in the Bible, the book which you claim infallible? If you are so confident about your claim, why stoop to attacking my credibility instead of tackling the questions asked you so far?

chipower:
All these bible verses are what your type use every time to discredit Jesus and Christianity.
If I had known earlier, i would not have wasted my time. Bye

Discredit Jesus Christ? What you discredit here is your claim to believe in Jesus Christ by your inability to properly attempt any of the issues I presented of your opinion and "special interpretation" of what is written even in your own bible.

Kobojunkie:
I brought up Matthew 10 a while ago ...

2) So, when Jesus Christ Himself first told you that you have to hate father, mother, brother, sister, wife, children, etc. to become worthy of being His follower, He was not being literal?

3) When Jesus Christ Himself denied His own mother and brothers for the sake of the Gospel, He was not being literal?

4) So, from that you get then that when Jesus says do not call anyman father, He was also not being literal?

Is that how it works ? I am trying to understand how you think here....

Remember now?
ROFLMAO!! Christians may not do that but those who are followers of Jesus Christ know who there ONLY teacher is. The WORD OF GOD refer to Jesus Christ(The way, the TRUTH, and the Life), not to every word in the Bible. That is why when Jesus Christ encountered Satan, He responded by saying " Man shall not live by Bread alone but by EVERY WORD THAT COMES OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD(referring there to Himself).
My questions confirm that I am not a Christian because they scare you?
You feel attacked by the questions I have asked you about what is written in the Bible, the book which you claim infallible? If you are so confident about your claim, why stoop to attacking my credibility instead of tackling the questions asked you so far?
Discredit Jesus Christ? What you discredit here is your claim to believe in Jesus Christ by your inability to properly attempt any of the issues I presented of your opinion and "special interpretation" of what is written even in your own bible.

If anyone here lacks confidence, that person is you. Callng me a pretender is not defending your position. This is lack of confidence. Ridiculing my answers by calling them ‘ special interpretation ‘ is not defending your position. It shows lack of confidence. Your refusal to explain your position so far shows lack of confidence. It’s your lack of confidence that made you to say that you are not arguing but at the same time you tell others they are wrong without telling them why they are wrong.

You are the one who is scared. Yes, you are scared of defending your position. If you’re not scared, you would have done so a Long time ago. You would have shown me why im wrong.
The only thing you are doing here is assertions after assertions . Making an assertion is not defending ones position. Explaining why that position is right is called the defense of that position. ‘Jesus himself said’ is not defending your position because Jesus Himself said other things too on the same matter . Quoting someone and explaining what the person means are two different things. This is why exegesis is necessary.

Jesus himself said, ‘But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.( Luke 6:35 )
Jesus himself said “You gave heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (Matthew 5:43-48)

In the above passages, Jesus is urging us to love people in order to be his followers and at the same time in Luke 14:26( your favorite proof text) , the same Jesus according to you, is urging us to hate people and OURSELVES in order to be his followers.

Explain to me why, Jesus would say:
Love people in order to be my followers and at the same time expect you or I to hate the same people and OURSELVES in order to be his followers.

To me, the two positions cannot stand together because they are contradictory positions. I said he was using hyperbole and you said he was not using hyperbole. You told me to take Jesus for his words which means that, to you, the two positions can stand without conflicting with each other. Explain to me how they can stand together without conflicting with each other. May be im missing something that you saw. Do the necessary exegesis.THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE REFUSED TO DO, yet you are accusing me of lacking confidence. Accusing me of forcing the two positions together doesn’t explain your position. Making caricature of my position by calling it,’special interpretation ‘ proves nothing because it doesn’t prove my position to be wrong. It doesn’t also prove that your position is right. To prove your position, you have to explain why your position is right.

Jesus Himself said, “If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell” (Matt. 5:29, cf. 18:9; Mark 9:47).

According to you, we must take Jesus for his words. I wonder why you have not taken Jesus for his words and pluck your eyes out or dismember any part of your body that has made you to sin. Is it that you have not sinned with different members of your body severally before ?.
Explain, what kind of SPECIAL INTERPRETATION that stopped you from doing what JESUS HIMSELF SAID?

So far, you have maintained that im wrong. All you need to do is show me how. This should be a simple task for you to do. May be im missing something that you saw. It’s possible. That’s why you need to do explanation of your position. Im always open to learning. Assertion is not exegesis. They are two different things. Explaining your position will help us to move forward constructively.